Seeking Knowledge while Married with Kids
Date:
Channel: Fatima Barkatulla
File Size: 97.13MB
Episode Notes
The YALLA Show interview
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AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers discuss the challenges faced by people in Nigeria during the COVID-19 lockdown and the importance of learning about the Islamic Sharia. They stress the need for parents to be focused on their daughter's personal lives and creating environments for the long term. The speakers emphasize the importance of finding the best colors for a woman to wear and finding the right balance between the mother and father. They also emphasize the need for men to be seen as models and not just check-in, as well as the importance of women shaping society and empowering their own roles.AI Generated Transcript ©
How are you doing? How is London?
In London?
It's a very sunny day today in London, but everyone is still observing the lockdown.
How is it in Nigeria? Which city?
I'm in Abuja okay
actually here the lockdown has been lifted. So people are going to
really
looking forward to that.
Inshallah so my viewers, this is the 11th episode of the show time series, and to get them to pick up us today is Fatima
from London.
She is
an instructor, the host the TV host of the podcast. She studied classical Arabic and Arabic, classical Arabic and Islamic sciences in Egypt and also in
college in London. And Al Salam
seminary I think Sharla
she's a mother of four kids.
Lots of panel data bless them
so
I knew you I think I think I knew this know last year that just the end of last year too.
But I knew your father I think about a couple of two to three years ago. And so I used to see him on Islam channel.
He used to come on Islamic key question and answers to all they do. So anytime I watch the talks, he talks in a very like in a slow manner and you will hear everything he says so I used to like it when he comes on.
So on your on your podcast with Dr. Haifa unis where you rely on your dad?
I was like okay, Mashallah.
And then the next I think, after two days, I was watching the program again and then I left Mashallah. Mufti barkatullah today, and then I said, Wait
Masha, Allah, Allah Subhana Allah preserve him.
I mean, just a hair on this. That's nice of you to tell me that. Because
as you know, we're all kind of distancing ourselves even from family members, right. So
apart from zoom and stuff like that, we're not really haven't met my dad, actually, for some time. Although he lives he lives nearby
thank you for inviting me
onto this.
I've never been to Nigeria before. So I'm really happy to say salaam to my brothers and sisters in Nigeria and
I hope one day I will get a chance to visit because I've heard so many great things about Nigeria and Nigeria and people so
I also want to visit London because due to due to social media to the button to connect with a lot of the brothers London and I'm like telling them inshallah inshallah so I'm considering maybe your master's degree in London, if Allah subhanaw taala makes it possible.
So I guess
what we want to be talking about
knowledge, like I want to pin the topic. So in case anyone joins, they know what we're talking about. Okay, yeah, sure.
Somebody asked if she moved the Mike's daughter. No.
I think mostly men could be too young to be my dad.
of the bottle. Yeah. So
he's, my dad is from India. He studied in Durban, you know, the university in Durban.
And he came to the UK in like, the late 70s
When I was born as well, so
yeah, so hamdulillah he's been, he's a Mufti on the Islamic Sharia Council yet a judge for the Islamic Sharia Council. He's also worked with a law firm.
In Islamic Finance, Financial Institutions so
hot here that
mashallah
viewers today like you can see we're talking about seeking knowledge and also women and
allies like someone who we see
who has a very good profile or an educational background and a study that some really nice places like Cambridge Islamic College, Federal Center for Arabic language and kotoba Islamic Kojima Institute for Arabic studies in Cairo, Egypt. And then O'Brien college and then also Institute which I guess is the most recent one
was gonna say I was at both of them together. So
one of them is runs on the weekend.
And one of them runs on the weekdays. So
Okay.
Well, right now
she is I think I saw your profile that you instructed Alcohol Alcohol Institute.
Yeah. So
tell us coming, because he's coming soon that haven't been released yet.
Okay. So
you're enjoying your journey through the path of seeking knowledge? Because a lot of people and I will say, especially here in Nigeria, and I don't know about the other parts of the world because I barely travel out of this area.
A lot of people when they talk about seeking knowledge and their parents, they take the daughters and they give them like, okay, there's a limit which they're going to have there's a limit of how much knowledge you're going to get online. Okay, they want the point, though, is to study surely I should study under the best colors, the sisters bests investigate them, okay. They just become
they just memorize the Quran and okay, that's, that's the best thing the most times. So I want you to talk about it. How is this? Is this the way it's meant to be like the boys getting more knowledge or
learn handling level salatu. Salam on last week? Hope Allah gives me the wisdom to,
to answer in the best way. You know,
I think look.
I think in some ways, it can be quite understandable. Okay. To be fair to parents, okay. It's kind of understandable that, you know, parents are often concerned, you know, they know that, okay.
seeking knowledge, and actually going into any kind of long term endeavor, takes a lot of effort takes a lot of time. They know that probably a person, especially if they're, if it's a woman needs to delay, maybe getting married, or, you know, people assume that
because they want the best for their daughters
have a family life and they want their daughters to, you know, have that kind of the traditional family life. I think
they're a little bit weary, you know, they're a little bit wary not to kind of
insist on their daughters really getting immersed into any particular path or career, or even, you know, in terms of seeking knowledge. So, on the one hand, I can understand the concerns of parents, you know, because they're thinking, Okay, I want to prepare my daughter for
the reality of life, okay, which is that probably, she's gonna get married, she's gonna have children. And that's a very big role. Very important role. And it takes a lot of commitment. Takes a lot of emotional attention, doesn't it? Right. So I completely understand that. And traditionally, it's kind of seeing that men, regardless of whether they get married and have children, etc, they could probably easily carry on with their studies with work outside, outside the home. And that's because Islamically even speaking,
the focus of the home is the home is the focus of the mother, right.
The father's focus is his responsibility is the home as well, but
definitely, traditionally a more kind of outward looking
aspect to being a Muslim man. Right? So I just want to kind of caveat, what I'm gonna say with that, you know that I do understand that.
But, you know, where there's a will there's a way, right? So I believe that
if if a person commits to something and wants to wants to achieve something, and they will, and they do it and they stick with it long enough,
and they try to have a balanced life, they can achieve that thing, you know. So, in my own example, when I was a teenager, I went to Egypt, right? So my dad took me to Egypt, and I began studying then. But a few years into my studies, I got married.
And one of the concerns of my husband was actually that, you know, how is this the fact that you really want to study? How is it going to fit in with family life? Right? So I don't think we should we should shy away from realizing that that is an issue. It's not, it's not like it's a non issue. You know, because sometimes we give, we give girls and women the impression that when they have children, nothing changes when they get married, and changes. And that's, that's not true. That's not true. Everything changes when you have kids, right.
And your priorities change.
Your outlook changes your, your brain, literally a woman's brain changes when she has children. Right. So
I think what happened then was that, you know, for me, knowing as a Muslim woman that, you know, my family, my husband, my children, they are my priority, and always bearing that in mind. I continue to study at a pace and in a way that would allow me not to neglect those other duties, right.
Slowed down the pace of the study, basically. Definitely, yeah.
I would say, slow down, but also changed the mode of study. Right. So for many years, for many years, I was studying more kind of remotely, I would say, right, so I was attending online courses. I had hundreds of lectures. I mean, in those days, YouTube wasn't even that popular, right? So I had like cassettes and CDs, lectures in Arabic and
the Middle East, and whatever I could get my hands on. And I would listen to them.
While I was bringing up the kids, you know, and I would have maybe online tutors, from Egypt
to continue my Arabic content, continuing my,
my studies, right? So in other words, I changed the mode of study, okay, to fit around my family and its needs. And then when it got to a stage where children were a bit older, they were at school.
And it was more possible. I was able to then go back to an institute and actually go physically and continue my studies that way. So I would say
two things. One, is that
our expectation for
as women, if we're going to go into studying Islam, or studying something long term has got to be that, you know, it's going to be a long term thing. It's not going to be a short term thing. Especially if you want to have a family. And if you want to carry
those very important aspects of life, you know.
And on the other hand, I think Muslim institutions have to create environments that are conducive to sisters being able to attend
with the Brahim College in London, they actually when some of their students got married during the course, because the thing is, it's like a five year sometimes six years course. Right? So you can imagine, especially a young woman, maybe in her early 20s, that's like the peak
the right time that she's gonna get married, right? It's like ideal. So
instead of those girls, those sisters getting married and and dropping out, right. One of the great things that Bryan college did was set up a crush in the college, right. So that's
literally some of the sisters who were like in their final year. The final
Two years, they would come with their baby, maybe bring a member of the family or somebody they trust, you know, like the mother or to stay on the site with them. And they gave them a nice space, with toys and everything and so that the children could also be looked after.
While their mother was in the other room, you know. So I think you have to create those kinds of environments. And myself, like,
when certain stages when I was attending classes,
I would take my little daughter with me, and I would pay a sister as a babysitter to come with me to the course. And, you know, like a student, sister, or trust, and or no, and she would be in the next room. And so my daughter was right there. And I could attend the class and in the breaks, I could go and attend to my daughter. So I'm not gonna say that it's easy. Okay, as you can tell, that doesn't sound very easy.
No, it takes planning, it takes determination.
But I think the main thing is, you have to be in it for the long term, you know.
So I hope that answers the question. I mean, I do think is different for men and women, it can be
unless a woman is going to put her whole life on hold, right, in terms of marriage and stuff.
It's, it's not going to be the same, you know.
But it's not impossible. So I think let's change, change the expectation that we have, you know, we don't need it to finish in four years or a few years, very quickly, can be a long term thing.
But the problem is that a lot of people don't have the
patience, I would say to, to continue, you know, and to keep going until they reach a certain milestone.
I will say, What motivated you from the start? Was it because your dad said study, or you had the zeal to study like, right from the teenage years?
Well, Hamdulillah, like, I think one of the things is that growing up in London, okay, so I went to normal schools, you know, like a girl school, and I went to a state school, just to an ordinary school, but mix school with,
you know, people of all different backgrounds, we grew up with people of all different backgrounds and religions and cultures.
And throughout school, I would, especially in secondary school, I would always get questions about Islam. Because in those days,
this is like in the 90s, of the 1990s.
There weren't that many visible Muslims, you know, in certain areas of London. So we were one of the visible families, you know, obviously, we're dressed as Muslims it's.
And then I would know, look for the answers to those questions about Islam.
And so that kind of, I think, triggered an interest, you know, and a realization that
the society around us needs Islam, you know, they need this message. And as a person brought up in the West, I felt like, I used to ask myself, why, why did Allah have my whole family in India? I think my dad is the only one, right? Who moved to London.
So I was like, one of the first kids in our family to be born in London.
So I would ask, you know, why, why did that happen? And it's such an unlikely thing to happen, especially from the area of India that we're in, were from.
And so then I think the realization dawned on me that, with that
situation that Allah had put me in came a huge responsibility. You know, English is my first language. We're native speakers of English, grew up in this culture.
It's our duty to articulate Islam to the wider public. Right. So that's one aspect. I think the constant questions I used to get at school motivated me, but definitely the fact that my dad was a scholar.
You know, my mom was always praising
scholars and being a scholar, it was like seen as the greatest thing you could aspire to Right?
Like my mom, she was used to describe my dad as somebody who was not immersed in, in worldly things. He was immersed in a higher calling, right. So I think from a young age I internalized that obviously and
And I always knew even as a teenager, I've got a like an old diary of mine, you know, where I wrote down my plans for my life. And one of them was, I want to go and study Islam. You know, I want to study to be a scholar. And I want to share the message of Islam. With women all over the world. That's what I wrote in my diary. And I was like, 15, so
So there was that. And so when I reached the age of 60, and my dad was like, Okay, what options do we have, you know, and then Hamdulillah, I was straight A student at school, you know, I was planning on going into medicine maybe or,
actually, one of the sciences, right medicine, I was like medicine or astrophysics. For some reason I had those two in my, in my mind.
And my dad suggested to me,
you know, you could go to Egypt. And I think to me, in those days, it was like this very romantic, I had a very romantic image of Egypt's
place because we studied it, you know, at school as the place of Twitter and carbon and the pyramids and all of that, right.
But also, I had a romantic image of Alaska University and
you know, the great scholars of our history in those days, we used to listen to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf and energy Nisha Hamza Yusuf from America.
You know, since your Sinatra heart as well, we used to listen to them a lot as teenagers because they were, they were like the superstar she took in those days to come to London, and Hampshire Hamza Yusuf used to speak so powerfully about
what was like, you know, it was amazing, mesmerizing, and you'd sit anything, wow. The Muslim I used to be so great. And he's talked about it as though, you know, I remember once he said, even the child on the street was a half of in those days, and he would talk about the amazing institutions. And I think this was like, before he was even kind of setting up
the, to the institute or college.
And so
yeah, so all of these factors, I think together, you know, that kind of
info influenced me to thinking, you know, I want to have a connection with that part of the world. I want to go into scholars were, I want to learn Arabic properly, you know, and my dad facilitated for me to travel to Egypt, he came with me initially and settled me in there. I started at a college of Al Azhar University, and also
the different centers learning Arabic, and all the different I mean, I literally did not know, I knew how to read the Quran, and I knew how to read some basic Arabic. But I really didn't understand a word, you know, when I got there. So it was starting from scratch. So I think that was the beginning of the journey.
Yeah, one of the powerful things my dad said to me, when I when he said, you know, what would you like to be? What would you like to do? And I said,
I think I really would like to be a surgeon Doctor, right?
And my dad said,
he said, Well, you know, there are a lot of surgeons there. There are a lot of doctors in the world, doctors of the physical heart.
He said, Don't you think we need doctors of spiritual heart? You know, we need more doctors of the spiritual heart. And I think that really stayed with me as well, you know. So.
Yeah, I think that was the beginning of the journey.
Yeah.
So prior to prior to marriage, did you at that moment when you started? How did you feel? Did you feel like
after a year, you felt like Matt, and I continue with this board did difficulties that come in after marriage?
Difficulties in seeking knowledge?
Like, the challenges? Definitely, you said it's not easy, like it became quite tough. And so not only after the marriage, prior before the marriage, there were some
difficulties and
Well, look, I think,
in many ways, marriage made it easier as well. Right? So living in Egypt, as a single woman, by yourself or even with a group of girls, other sisters, is really hard. You know, it's not easy living in Egypt.
I don't know if you've ever been to Cairo have you?
Okay, so every time you step out of your house, you think you're gonna die in Cairo. Okay? Because?
Because, sorry, I have to laugh because
I'm actually not joking. It's, it's like, there are no rules on the road, right?
There's a lot of harassment. I'm not going to shy away from saying that, you know, as a single woman living there, if you get on a bus, you should get on any kind of public transport.
Even if you're dressed like this, even if you're dressed in niqab, right? Unfortunately,
there are certain social ills are prevalent there, such that you would could get harassed.
And when you don't have a man with you, when you don't have a husband, it's not easy, you know, because usually us girls, you know, we were brought up with
not to be that assertive, and not to be aggressive, etc, right. So we would find it hard to
do to fight off anybody who's, you know, approaching us in an inappropriate way, right. So unfortunately, living by yourself and not having a husband. In some ways, it is much harder, you know, especially in certain countries.
And also, like getting administration done, and, you know, all of that side of things, right? Just getting,
yeah, like, if you're, if you've got a man with you, that handler is going to be a lot quicker, right? Because he can literally muscle his way into buildings,
you know, stuff like that. So I think,
I wouldn't say that it was much easier. Being single, right? I think being single has its own tests and trials, you know, you can feel lonely.
Especially at that stage of your life, when you're a teenager or older, just slightly older than that,
you can stop in quite lonely.
People can take advantage of you, if you're in a foreign country.
And it's just, it just helps a lot to have
somebody with. So, but on the other hand, you have a lot of free time, right?
Because you don't have the responsibilities of a family, and all of that. So definitely, you have no more time and more kind of ability to commit.
I think the key thing is, when I was getting married, that my husband was on board when it came to my studies, right? I think that's really important that for both husbands and spouses, if there's something that's important to you, right, that you know, is going to be important to you in your life, it's really important to bring that up during the meetings that you have for marriage, you know, when before you get married.
person can can kind of take that can fully take that in can kind of
understand where you're coming from and enter the marriage with the eyes open. Knowing that, okay,
this is something that we knew from the beginning is going to be important. So. So for me, I actually put in my marriage contract
that my husband actually agreed as part of the marriage contract, like, just as like an honorific mentioned, I would say that you would facilitate my studies
until graduation, right.
The graduation ended up taking a long time.
And he ended up dating it for a long time.
But because that was
it was something that we'd agreed beforehand, you know? And he'd asked me, I remember in our marriage meetings, he'd asked me, you know, okay, but what if there was a situation where, you know,
if there are children involved, and, you know, what would you at the time?
He did, we did have that discussion, you know, and I made it very clear that, of course, my family, my children would always be my priority, you know,
so we'd already had those discussions beforehand. And I think what that did was help afterwards because then
when I wanted to continue, my husband helps me.
He helps me by funding me. He helped me by supporting me with the kids.
And he even helped me by traveling
I'm trying to help me find institutions I could go to
abroad. I didn't end up going to institutions in the end,
because some institutions opened up right here in London. Right. But even then, I think having a supportive husband, having a supportive spouse
was really, really key. Of course, you know, I would say I'm internally going to be thankful to my husband, you know, because
the person who seeks knowledge, that's something, you know, we know that his blessing in sha Allah, but the person who funds the person who seeks knowledge, right, the person who supports them, how much reward will they get? Hon Allah, that's also a big thing, right?
So I would say,
trying to find a spouse who supports your work supports your goals, and you have both have a similar, I would say, Outlook, right? I think that's, that's key. Having family support has been key.
But also being realistic. You know, there are times when I've had to stop studying, you know, and that's okay.
I would actually, sometimes study through listening only, you know, listening to lectures. I mean, we're living at a time SubhanAllah. When knowledge is so accessible, if a person can discipline themselves, they could learn a lot, right? Even without attending a course. Although it's ideal. It's ideal to attend a class, it's ideal to study with your right. But sometimes you don't do the ideal. So instead of stopping completely, you've got to do the next best thing, which is, okay, I can learn through listening, I can learn through online lectures, online courses.
Just don't stop and keep going.
When you spoke about
the marriage meetings, I just wanted to highlight something to my followers, because on the show, we have
weekly series every Wednesday, and it's about marriages, basically. So the day before yesterday, which was when they were talking about pre marriages in the meetings. So the Sheikh was talking about compatibility and things which you should talk about during the marriage meetings. And what you just highlighted for in case there are any performers who have watched the last episode of the marriage series, I think they should be put into consideration all these kinds of things are things we should talk about, because we're talking about some marriage meetings. And during the marriage meetings, deals, which they take as priorities.
Okay, what are your favorite colors? Do you like long walks in the beach? So that those are the kinds of things you see them discussing about? So I guess, anyone who was at the last session of the marriage
program can put this into the list of what they should talk about. And secondly, we talked about
the funding and I just remember a video I saw, I think, on your page about the two brothers who one was studied and one was funded. And like, it's, it was really amazing
how the other brother the brother wasn't the minister will say, he was funding the study, and he got such a massive reward.
There's even there's even a hadith
which I forget the exact source for, in which a brother came to the prophets, Allah Salam and was complaining. He was complaining that my brother, he doesn't do any work. He just studies all the time. He just wants to study them all the time. And I do all the work and I provide for him, right? And the prophets, Allah, Allah said to him, the reason why you are getting risk is because of him. Yeah. And he Allah is giving you so that's why like, I sometimes it's my husband.
You're getting money because of me, you know, like, because I'm studying.
So you should, you should freely give it to me, you know, when I need it. So, I mean, you know, that's just a little joke, but you understand what I'm saying, right? But we take on when we take on a responsibility and extra responsibility. So say, for example, a man decides I'm going to start supporting my mother, financially. I'm going to start giving her money regularly, you know, so just to help her to make her feel supported.
Then, of course, Allah subhanaw taala will provide more to him in order for him to be able to do that, right. So we should never feel that when we take on a responsibility, something, bless it something like supporting, if we can't study ourselves, because support a student of knowledge, we should never think that that's going to diminish our wealth. No, Allah will actually put more wealth into your risk, more money into your risk, in order for you to be able to
do that, you know, so.
So, we're discussing two topics today. And before we move into the second segment, I'll just want to advise the sisters, do you invite the sisters here to take the path of long term study?
Because I know now some of the sisters
will feel like Okay, should I take the path of the long term study? Or should I just keep it within the normal limits? And now she's now the parents are not saying you have to do this, you have to do that the decision is up to the system?
What would you advise on this kind of situation?
The thing is, everyone has a different situation, right? So
most people don't get married when they're 19. I don't think I don't know what it's like in Nigeria. But I got married when I was 19. So
if you're getting married, if you think you're going to be getting married in your 20s, late 20s, etc, or sorry, mid 20s, etc, which is kind of normal.
Then why not, you know, make the most of your youth make the most of your years when you don't have those extra commitments? Of course, that's what we should do, right.
But I think what I'm trying to say is that
you don't want to put your whole life on hold.
For something that is probably going to take a long time. Do you know what I mean?
So, for example, sometimes, this is an issue in the UK, I don't know if you have this issue there. But sometimes people in order to pursue a particular not even just Islamic studies, you know, it could be medicine, it could be any, any long term or kind of
something that takes a long time commitment. In order to pursue it, they would delay marriage, right.
And they would keep turning away suitors. So you know, people who come for marriage, so people might come to propose, and they will keep turning them away, turning them away, turning them away. And then unfortunately, something that we sometimes have experienced here is that when sisters get to a certain age, and it's unfortunate that this happens, but it's just the way it is.
The number of people who propose to them starts waning,
to decline because of the brothers are getting married. Her brothers are all just getting married. A brother is not going to wait. He's not going to wait till he's 13 right to get married because he has to say taste, right?
He's going to get married.
By the age of 25. A lot of brothers are married, I would say, at the age of 25.
Definitely, by the age of 30, right.
culturally speaking, a lot of brothers would like to marry somebody who's younger than them right.
Now, okay, again, again, that's not necessary. But
we're not talking about what's ideal here. We're talking about the real world. Right.
So I would be very, I would be very wary to advise to sister something that is going to detriment her life, you know.
And, unfortunately, sometimes we see this phenomenon here in the UK, that
when people especially sisters, because I think,
you know,
it's just the way it is, it just tends to be not it's not that it's always but it tends to be the this son window of time
when they get more proposals and more, kind of
you don't want to put your whole life on hold
for something that's probably going to take a long time. Do you know what I mean?
So, for example, sometimes this is an issue in UK I don't know if you have this issue there. But sometimes people in order to
pursue a particular not even just Islamic studies, you know, it could be medicine, it could be any, any long term or kind of
something that takes a long term commitment in order to pursue it, they would delay marriage, right.
And they would keep turning away suitors. So you know, people who come for marriage, so people might come to propose, and they will keep turning them away, turning them away, turning them away. And then unfortunately, something that we sometimes have experienced here is that when sisters get to a certain age, and it's unfortunate that this happens, but it's just the way it is.
The number of people who propose to them starts waning,
to decline because of the brothers are getting married, her brothers are all just getting married. A brother is not gonna wait. He's not going to wait till he's 13 right to get married, because he has to stay taste, right?
He's going to get married.
By the age of 25, a lot of brothers are married, I would say we're at the age of 25.
Definitely, by the age of 30, right.
culturally speaking, a lot of brothers would like to marry somebody who's younger than them right.
Now, okay, again, again, that's not necessary. But
we're not talking about what's ideal. Here. We're talking about the real world. Right.
So I would be very, I would be very wary to advise to sister something that is going to detriment her life, you know.
And, unfortunately, sometimes, we see this phenomenon here in the UK, that
when people, especially sisters, because I think,
you know,
it's just the way it is, it just tends to be not, it's not that it's always but it tends to be the this certain window of time
when they get more proposals and more kind of
interest for marriage, right. And it's kind of important not to
take that for granted. You know, because I think when a person gets a proposal, that's also a type of risk from Allah, isn't it? If somebody comes to you asking for your hand in marriage or for your daughter's marriage,
you should not take that as shouldn't just brush it off easily. You know, the prophets of Allah wedding Salam advised didn't hear that when a man comes to you, and whose character is satisfying to you? Yeah.
Then marry him to your daughter, right?
And I remember that. That's one of the reasons why I took it quite seriously. When I was when I got a proposal, right, it wasn't something that I was just going to,
you know, think, oh, you know, it's okay. There's, there's plenty of fish in the sea, right? I wasn't gonna take it lightly like that. Because these things, even proposals are something from a lot, you're supposed to take it seriously. If you want society to thrive and to be successful, we're not supposed to make marriage hard. So
so that's why I would say, if you're,
of course, if you if you have a normal situation, I didn't have a normal situation. That's what I'm trying to say here.
It wasn't Islamic institutions in the UK at the time, when I was
1920 21,
I would have had to go abroad.
And so and I got married young. So if you're in that kind of situation, I would say, don't feel that you cannot do anything, you know, you can you just have to do it long term. On the other hand, if you're in a place where you've got access to knowledge, you've got access to institutions, you're a young person, go for it, you know, of course with we're encouraged to use our youth
to its maximum
benefit because, sadly, most of us,
we don't realize how precious youth is right? until it's gone.
So definitely, if you can use that time, you know, but I think when it comes to Islamic knowledge, it is a lifelong thing. Even to
even people who graduated you know, they still continue to study. It's not like it completely stops. It never completely stops
all the stops when you die, I guess. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So at a certain point, you start at a certain point, I think you start
teaching as well. Right? You start not just seeking knowledge, but also teaching knowledge. And then it becomes like a dual thing. You, you study and you teach. And then
yeah, yeah.
What you just said about teaching?
I think there's gonna be the last question before we move forward. Is there any do you actually need to say, Okay, I studied? So, to this extent that I started teaching, or do you just start to give out the knowledge? Once you take in you give? Or do you have to take there's a certain level of how much you take, before you begin to give?
Yeah, that's a really good question. Because,
you know, when you have a little bit of knowledge, you get overconfident sometimes,
and you start wanting to share it quickly, quickly, because you're like, Ah, I've got this amazing thing I've just studied, I just have to teach it. And also, when you're younger, you can be quite hot headed, right? You know, me at 20 is not the same as me at 14, is completely different. By the time you're 40, you've come you've kind of experienced a lot in life, you know, you've, you've met a lot of people, you actually a lot less judgmental of people, right?
A lot more compassion for people, because you've probably been through a lot as well by them. And you've been humbled a little bit by life.
But also, I think
you realize certain things, you know, as you get older, that are not as black and white as you thought they were, you know, when you were younger, it's just the way it is just the way it is right? Things seems so clear when you're young, right?
So one of the great advices that my shoe gave me was that the scholars of the past used to warn their students, be careful not to become famous too quickly.
Believe it or not, they used to say to their students, be careful not to become famous, and not to become known too quickly before your time.
Because what happens is you will make a lot of mistakes, you see, you will make a lot of mistakes in public. And sometimes, you know, some don't want to name any names. But sometimes you may see some YouTubers or brothers who are very, very kind of raw, you know, in their knowledge, and they just really want to like slam different people down and they just, they just take what they say is to the heart, there's nothing more than that. It's just so when you see that sometimes you think 10 years time that brother is going to really regret that video.
Because at this time, it seems very black and white. And that's just the nature of youth, you know, feel very overconfident.
So I think that was a really good piece of advice that one of us, you gave us a don't seek and don't become too prominent too soon. Also, one of the advices My dad always gave me was
your output is only going to be as good as your input.
You know what I mean? Yeah. So the more you input, the more you study, the more you write, and develop your thinking and engage, the better your output is going to be. Right? In our times, it's very kind of easy for people to just learn something,
learn something and then start teaching it immediately. Right.
I think that's that's kind of like something important for everyone to internalize your input, your output is only going to be as good as your input was in the first place. So allow yourself to take in take in take in from different types of shoe. I'm telling you, you know, like, sometimes we limit ourselves to one group, or one particular type of Chef, right. And until you study with a few different types of people, right? Obviously study with qualified people, trustworthy people, but slightly different schools or slightly different ways of thinking. Until you do that until you diversify yourself a little bit. Okay. You can appreciate that actually, Allah subhanaw taala
intended for this ummah to be dynamic. And he intended for someone to have a level of, I would say
A flexibility in it, you know? Because otherwise, how else how else would Islam spread to every corner of this earth? Right? If there was only one static, cultural version of Islam, right? How is it possible that look at us rather like somehow it is, isn't it amazing? Like, we've never met before. You are in a completely different continent. I come from India, but I'm in London.
It's just such a weird situation, right? But it's amazing that the thing that unites us is that you're, you're my brother in Islam, right? I'm your sister. And
that's, that's a miracle. That's a gift. That's it. That's amazing. I feel instantly connected to you. And to my brothers and sisters in Nigeria, even though I've got nothing in common with you. Except Islam. Right.
So I think one of the miracles of our DNA is that Allah and Allah made it such that he had the flexibility, cultural flexibility, as well as, you know, religious flexibility to spread across the world. And for people of different cultures, different situations, different inclinations, and, and personalities to adopt it, you know.
And there's a blessing in that diversity. Of course, there are things that are deviations, there are things that are go beyond the pale. I'm not endorsing that. But within the spectrum of permissibility, right, of Allison old Gemma would say
there is diversity. And until you study with a number of different shoe, and you realize that, you know, this,
there are different ways of looking at things, you know, we
right from the right from
basically
diversities.
Exactly.
So, I think that helps to open your mind a bit. So, yeah, so I think it's really important to wait
till
I think a point when your own shoe you
kind of indicate to you that you are ready, you know. And for most of us that's going to be like when you graduate, because graduation is you're sure you're giving you the shahada and saying, You know what? I endorsed you, you reached a certain level. I've looked at your work. I know you, and I give you that jazz, I give you that kind of seal will license.
So I think that's the obvious milestone, okay. But that's not to say you don't do any Dawa. Before that.
I think the rule of thumb, and this is something that too, she also said to me, my own father. And also remember chef Haytham whether there's you know, chef in
the UK. He always said to us talk about the things that everyone agrees upon. You know, you know, there are things in Islam that we all agree upon. Right?
Those are the things that we should, especially when we're young, do that work to you know, stay away from the controversies and the side issues and the print issues and the kind of things that caused the cause disunity. Okay.
Instead, focus on the things that will bring unity, the things that Muslims agree upon, we all agree on Tawheed. Right. We all agree that there is one God and that we should worship Him alone. We all agree about the Prophet sallallahu Sallam and the main the main aspects of the deen. Right. We all agree that the Muslim has to pray five times a day. Right? That they have to cost the five pillars of Islam for
issues which are like very clear to the ummah. Yeah, I mean, the Muslim always not doing those basic things, right. So, so So those are the things that every Muslim can call to,
regardless of the level of their knowledge,
but when it comes to more detailed things,
and controversial things, okay. I would say it's better.
First of all, to do it in the right place, you know, so it's not necessary to talk in public about all the different, I don't know sects and groups and there's just no need to cause that kind
Under disunity.
But then again, if you're in a class where you're teaching theology, or you're in a class where you're teaching
about the sects, or about a pizza, etc, you might, you might highlight those differences, right? And you might say, well, this is the one that, you know,
the opinion that I follow or that opinion that I believe is most correct, right. But in the general public, you don't want to cause harm, you don't want to cause disunity when it's unnecessary to do so. And so you don't want to cause fitna so I think it takes a level of wisdom of knowing, you know, we call it at the root at the root feeling, right? So having that knowledge is sought and also imparted in, in a certain order. It's not done. Like, I'm not going to start talking to a guy who doesn't believe in Allah. Okay, about why he should stop drinking alcohol. I probably wouldn't do that, you know, I'm not going to start talking about why he shouldn't have a girlfriend, if he
doesn't even believe in Allah in the first place. Right? Rather I would focus on
him his belief in Allah right? That's that becomes the first priority. Then once he believes in Allah, then inshallah other things will come you see.
So
you said you say in front of please.
Aisha where she said
she was she was talking about if the
Quran came, the is nicer, they came, they would have
been people that have come to Islam. So please explain that more further. He said that if you check the monkey sutras, they were more emotional things. There were things about Jenna to handle which are like emotional feelings people really feel that in their heart, okay. And then
this like sets the mind and now you know that okay, yes, I have to choose between this or this is in general or is it to handle
the rules started coming in how to get jetlag and things which will put you into handler so since you've already gotten the go so basically it's about the goal when the goal comes then other things follow and that's how we understand the headache Exactly. So early on the Aqeedah of the Muslim was being developed the beliefs the connection with Allah right connection with Allah and the pillars of belief and later on the commands and the prohibitions and the details you know, so yeah, exactly. So I think we have to that shows you doesn't it that
we need wisdom we need to know that there's an order of priority even in our
I'm going to end the video then I'll start with again Instagram lives last one hour
if I don't end it now we might miss the video and we wouldn't be able to save it
so for every other person after I end the video you can join again I'll start it immediately
so we'll just wait for the others to join then we'll continue inshallah.
Brother, what can you tell me in the meantime, what is your study background?
Yeah, so I
mean, basically here in Nigeria, it's Nigeria. It's like mashallah, we have
a large community of Muslims. So, at that young age, we about 90 million basically. So at that young age, we almost every
Buddy has just put in the Islamic school to have the basic knowledge, the knowledge of though he learned how to read the brand, and just the basic foundation. And then until recently, and that has been
on, we've been on because I'm 20 I think I told you and
for now, we are studying more we are going into like more advanced studies. Now we are getting into the main books of Aveda. And you know, here Nigeria, it's like you can just get knowledge knowledge is like really, really, really accessible. Because it's used everywhere, both in institutions, private classes. So we have a lot of private classes with
I'll say the prominent shields in the city.
So basically we are studying our creed
a little bit of
fixing, fixing our hips and handle.
So basically, it's just like, no really no real
there's no profiling of I'll say like yours, which will say
Inshallah, we're looking at I'm looking forward to like further the studies and go in for long term inshallah.
Inshallah.
Now, think it's really important, isn't it, that people feel their foundations. So a lot of the time, sometimes when people come and ask me, like, you know, what do I need to focus on? I say to them, well, first you need to study Arabic in
you need to fix up your Quran recitation, you need to make sure you, you can connect with the book of Allah, right?
Sometimes people, people get put off by that, because
they assume that seeking knowledge is a glamorous thing, you know, like,
but actually, it's gonna take a lot of years of sometimes studying stuff that takes that is quite mundane, you know, and I mean, like, for example, learning Arabic vocabulary, you know, and, you know, it takes time, it takes effort, it takes repetition.
And sometimes people don't,
I'm not willing to put that time in, you know.
So I think you have to be realistic, you know, that anything that you want to achieve, if you want to achieve a level of mastery. First of all, if you want to connect with the book of Allah, you need to understand the language of the book of Allah right?
If you neglect that, it's hard to fix that later on.
So I think it's really important to take the time to study Arabic properly classical Arabic.
And mashallah, there are Institute's, you know, now available.
Even in Egypt, there are lots of institutes that have online classes, you can do over zoom over Skype.
And it's not I know, sometimes people might be thinking, Well, how am I going to learn a language like that? Believe me, they're very experienced teachers, and they have like, online whiteboards.
You know, so they can write things and
you can see them obviously,
they are trained in being able to get you to speak in Arabic, very quickly. So I think it's just a matter of
taking the step committing you know,
and if you can, traveling to places where you can learn Arabic,
or finding Apple within your country.
If you go to
those institutions, which, which we talked about, like there'll be really beneficial especially, I know some people viewing right now who really need that and also will really benefit from that.
So inshallah like even after the live so I can share it to everybody. Okay, you mean the institutions for learning Arabic?
Yeah, the ones online.
Yeah, sure.
I will share those inshallah.
So unlike I think,
when it comes to institutes of seeking knowledge, because in London, I'll say it's going to be like more organized. Because I'll say, due to the fact that in London, it's
If you want to seek knowledge if you want to if you don't want to seek proper knowledge you know okay this is where I go to this is where I go to this this college that college and I guess because it's the Muslims are not the majority it's gonna be like there's a more of organization due to the little number cuz I don't know for now but I don't think the Muslims in London out 2 million
honestly now
in London there should be like around a million or less
I forgotten the exact number but it's a big number
unlike here in Nigeria, we have cities. There's basically no non Muslim was actually from the city. So
yeah basically the whole of northern Nigeria is like Muslim, a dominant area in the south is part of the South, the west part, the western South, the southwest part is also like, they have about 50% of the Muslim so basically the country's like 70% of Muslims and out of 180 almost 100 million Muslims and
so people get access to the and the abuse base traditional background of Islam, although like the diversities
they build on the traditional background of Islam. So everybody accesses knowledge. Even if you're in like the smallest
village here, you're going to be qualified, who can teach you so it's quite easy to say
yes, it's quite easy. Actually some people even traveled from the city to the villages to do the hips because this lesson distraction where you come from the city now when you go to the village AC no one really cares about the kind of
thoughts you are the kind of hands you got. They don't really care.
Because here Nigeria actually used to have we had villages which people still go
they don't use the very few cars. Like we I study I study in Sokoto, and
you heard of manda folio.
That's like, I've heard his name.
Yeah. So in this in that city, we have a lot of villages whereby people still use camels, donkeys and so no one really, no one is really bothered about the benefits. So a lot of people go back to those places to do their hair. And when they memorize the Quran, they come back to the city and continue other
fields of seeking knowledge. So back to the topic.
We're talking about women. And
I wanted to ask is
because my sister, my older sister, she was talking about women and data and she was like, she wish he could see like other she she listened to a lecture by Yasmin Maga head. And she was like, she wishes that they were other women doing this, because she's
a men, men, men men. And she was wishing the other women doing this at all, like martial law, we have a lot and I started to share lectures to her. So how does this The Tao of a woman? Does it vary from the Tao of a man? Because I think that's the question which I have to ask doesn't vary from the DA which a man gives in the sense that a man
comes out I'll say the man has more freedom to access every buddy he can teach.
He I don't know if they have any female teachers in domestic the level of IB, I know a lot of males. In the master dilemma we and stuff like that. So how does how does the dollar for the woman work? And that is I'm asking for all of us because I don't really I don't know to?
Like, touch upon it.
Okay.
Well, first of all, one of the reasons why, you know, when you said you know, what about girls studying and seeking knowledge and I would say one of the reasons why it's is important for us to have knowledgeable daughters, right? Is of course, not the only reason but one of the reasons is that they're going to literally raise the next generation of Muslims right now.
So, the first area of Dawa is our own families, right? Our own children. And so many times when I was like, if I would go into a class, I would study something the Sierra or some detail story or some aspect of a hadith, I would come home and share that with my kids, right? Something to convey to them is something that, you know, you can inform them with in their own life, right. So, so there's that aspect of our and I don't think we should belittle that, you know, because our Muslim Ummah can never be great if our families are not great, right. And if there's nobody focusing on the family,
it's a lost cause doesn't matter, you can go to these big conferences and preach and look good. And you know, get the applause, right.
But if you're if our if we're not conveying those messages to our own families, then we've got our priorities wrong. So I think it's really important to remember that 1000s of sisters around the world, when they seek knowledge,
they're probably focusing on their own families afterwards. Right, and their own local communities. So for example, I know so many sisters who get graduated from, you know, Islamic, Alameda degrees or whatever. And they, you wouldn't have heard of them, right? Wouldn't have heard the name. But that doesn't mean they're not doing important work. You know, they're probably focusing, and I know for a fact that they are focusing on their own local communities, grassroots our right, so maybe they'll have a Halacha, they'll have, sometimes they have online,
things that only sisters can access. So it's not so kind of in your face, it's not, you know, they're not going to put the image even even for myself just being photographed and putting your even just to be coming on video. It's not something that I take lightly, you know, as a Muslim woman, because as the scholars of Islam say, the hustle for a woman is hijab, right? We don't want in Islam, we don't have this idea that a woman is supposed to be, you know, in the same way, as a man out there in the public eye, almost like property, public property, right? We don't want that to happen. We don't want that to happen to women, and we don't want that to become like,
I would say exploited, right.
As we know, in some societies it is.
At the same time, I think, you know,
as you've highlighted, we do have this online world,
we have a lot of the wrong kinds of people trying to influence the youth, right, especially the girls
talking to the girls about their makeup, about their looks about you know, all sorts of things that are kind of bringing, taking them away from Allah. Right. And so, because of that, because of that, I do think that there may need to be a few people, at least,
you know, who do put themselves in the public space
in order to kind of hopefully influence the especially the daughters, our daughters and the girls out there. And show them another way. Right. I think I think that's really important. And, and one of the things that came from, I would say, the Elfi podcast, having a sisters podcast, you know, having
myself presenting, you're interviewing inspiring Muslim women on the podcast, one of the things that have come from that is, I think, sisters are yearning like you said this the yearning for role models, you know, the yearning to hear from sisters like themselves who have been through things and come out the other side and who puts a law first.
And I think that's just the nature of human beings, isn't it? We're always looking for role models. We're looking for somebody out there who will show us a way of being so although I don't think it's necessary for all sisters to kind of become public figures, okay. And also I don't think that's desirable either. Simon, okay.
As Muslims, I think we need to accept that in Islam. Men and women are different. You know, we don't we shouldn't be shy to say that.
Men and women are different. So we the prophets were men
All right, for a reason, some scholars say that Maria Maria Salam was a
majority, I
wouldn't say that
the majority of the prophets were men, okay?
There was a reason why they were men. It's because ALLAH SubhanA, Allah gave that type of public responsibility to the men. Okay, so I don't think we want to
ignore that and diminish that just because
the west or kind of, you know, the media, or these external influences and pressures keep saying to us, where are your women? Where are your women? You know, bring them out, bring them up, I don't think we want to, we want to respond by saying, Okay, we're gonna bring our women out now, just because just to satisfy your western style of doing things, right. I don't think that should be the reason. What should be the reason is, if a sister has an expertise, if she has knowledge, if she can influence people, and Subhanallah, there are, like you mentioned.
There's so many, there are sisters out there, who are touching sisters in a way that brothers would not be able to reach them. Right.
And I think that's, that's something to be valued.
And I also think one of the reasons why,
you know, is because they want to have privacy, they want to kind of have, they don't want to be public figures, you know, because we've we're being a public figure, Figure comes, it can come at a cost sometimes, right?
So, for example, you will get into CISM, you'd get a lot of public scrutiny.
And you have to be pretty thick skinned, to put up with that, or to not allow it to get to you, right.
And typically speaking, I once I was speaking to this, this BBC journalist,
and she was saying that even, you know, in on the BBC, whenever they have female guest, she will get much more attacked, much more criticism,
the way she looks, the way she speaks to everything will be attacked much more. This is like in the general public, right? Much more than
I don't know why that is. Okay. But that's, that's a phenomenon that not every woman wants to put up with. And she has a right not to have to put up with that, because she has a family, she has a reputation. She has her husband, she has a sense of honor. You know,
that's, I remember the first time when I was on a kind of debate, television debate or something
afterwards, and this is the wrong thing to do. By the way, you should never read the comments. But if you do read the comments, sometimes people say, the worst things, you know, like, especially if they're not,
you know, they're not our brothers and sisters in Islam, and they have a certain hatred towards Islam, etc.
There's no limits that they will go to, you know, there's no limits for them. Any in terms of what they would be willing to say about a woman? Right? Sometimes a very foul thing that they would say that as a Muslim woman, it hurts you more, because we do have that sense of, hey, we have that sense of honor. You know, we don't want certain boundaries to be crossed. So I think it's really important for us to be nuanced when we discuss this. Not every sister wants to be a public figure. And being in the public eye doesn't mean you're serving people better. You know, I know sisters who are completely nobody knows them in the public. But they do the real real excellent work in their
communities, you know.
But I do think brothers need to realize that
there are sisters out there yearning to see some female role models. And so maybe brothers will need
for there to be platforms on which sisters can engage in a positive Halal way. And that's why you know, Ill feed was kind of a pioneer in that because I think a lot of the brothers in the UK for example, they are still quite unsure
how to accommodate the sisters, you know,
to be honest, so I know some
physicians, they would be very happy for me to write to write articles right.
But I don't think I would ever be invited on to their podcast, right? That's okay. Like they
They're struggling to know, like, what is the best way to deal with this? You know, and sometimes due to the idea of
sub Butera, you know, closing the doors to harm due to that, they sometimes get a bit worried, you know, like, Okay, if we start inviting sisters, then we'll open the floodgates to this and that, and, you know, what, if a sister wants to come on, and she doesn't, she doesn't wear hijab, or, you know, there's lots of issues that they worry about, I think behind the scenes. So I think some, some brothers some media organizations, little bit reticent, I would say.
But others, like LP, for example, when like, what you're doing, I think they recognize that look,
there's a decent way to do it, you know, if we get the right people who know the job of being in public,
of course, nobody's perfect, there, we all fall short, but we do our best. And for the greater good. I think there is a benefit in sister's
also being in the public space, but I think we have to do it carefully.
To be very, very talked about the system, people being attacked, and the pressure, I just remember anytime I go in YouTube, especially, you know, YouTube gives recommendations. So what you see is, you just see something like
heightened
exposed MultiMax exposed
also so exposed, and this something which
other people watch this video, and they'll be like Subhanallah, like, I never knew he was so filthy, and they begin to attack the shields and it takes a lot to handle that I would say
it takes a lot to handle that which for some sisters might even put them in some kind of psychological trauma for the for the time being, which is something which the brothers some of the brothers will be able to handle better
on these attacks, which you talked about and secondly, the brothers find it hard as well you know, they find it hard
but you're right like the sisters can be more even more sensitive.
And they talked about getting role models I remember on our sixth episode of this current time series will be Dr. Tamara gray she said
she said that study having some females to use because this issue was because a lot of the sisters they also feel like yeah we just we want to stay with with the with the known shoe
like here this city for example. When there's
when there's Halloween
one of the known shields most times it's the brothers who attend when his private sentence for the sisters and then the brothers usually informed the sisters okay, there's this Hello.
Okay, once the year is this you have this god usually see on TV that everyone wants to go.
And then the sisters that are done by the sisters, you see very few systems like 567 to 10 sisters attended. As she highlighted, she highlighted the importance of studying under
female Sheoak because just the same way and that was one of the reasons they gave the scholars they gave about not only studying online but having the shade because you're going to learn focus is the same way with the sisters when you have that shade. That was who you study from. You not only learn the knowledge but you also learn how she implements the knowledge in her life in a sentence when it comes to the problem of okay like you said, now you have kids you have this to handle you she also had kids and you can also see okay, this is how she handled handled it and mashallah she's doing fine. So you can follow suit. And I feel this is
very, very important having the females callers and I think I had it, I think
from I listened to all the podcasts like I think I've listened to all the podcasts and
and I think the one the one with Dr. heifer units, I think she said she studied all the under females.
And
that's really an
It's inspiring.
So I feel some of the systems should also think about knowing who are the female troops and studying with them. Because basically, we have as like a Nigeria, we have both of the sisters who
have a lot of knowledge they want to teach, but like you said, the higher the honor, the integrity of not just coming out to the public space, they do it within a small circles in the small communities. And that's for the data. And this is one advice, which I'm going to give, because a lot of the sisters are coming to me, and
I'm the, basically the president of the MSA in my university, the Muslim Students Association, so a lot of them they comment they are like, they want to deliver a lecture they want to so we have a university whereby we are like 7006 1800 Muslims.
Everybody's a Muslim, basically, and everybody wants to deliver a lecture. So we choose, and if some of the sisters come and we have too much requests, and they're like, everybody, maybe have just two slots and 10 sisters wants one to deliver this lectures and even the brothers to
power
the brothers to they want to deliver lectures, I already told them, okay, what you want to talk about this, you want to give that within your within your dormitory or within your the hostel which you recited, or the community which you reside in, around the university, I think you start with Inshallah, the space, if there's any accommodation for you to come and give a public lecture to the whole university that will make that possible. And you're like, No, and most of them will go attacking me and the
other brothers who arranged these, they'd be like, do you feel you're eligible that us what you don't want to give us this place to come to the public? And so I feel like it's come to the public. And I feel like, especially among the youth, this zeal of coming to the public is there, and
you've spoken about the women or the men should it be so like, everybody just wants to be in public and they want to be known. And like you said, Okay, address that, I think you said, the scholars, they, they say we should, we should be
unpopular for as long as possible.
This is something
Yeah, and this is something that the most the people that the students whose knowledge is to this knowledge, a lot of us, after seeking this knowledge, we just want to go
on every platform, you want to go on YouTube want to be seen everywhere. And
I feel this is an issue which should be bothered about, to be honest.
A lot of the students have knowledge, I like this.
The issue of studying under shade,
in the next 20 to 30 years might not be the same because basically the the people who will take the shakes that will not have that which the generation should copy from, if this is how it starts, I think.
Look, I think fame has its allure, you know, and every human being has to check in themselves and ask, Why do I want this platform? Why do I want to do this and why am I dismissing this type of our for that right? Look at the way Subhanallah even Allah Subhana Allah in the Quran sent to the Prophet sallallahu sallam, you know, in sort of,
you know, he said, When the Prophet SAW Selim was giving more attention to something he thought was more
important, right? A rich man who's very influential, he wants you he felt that was important and he was giving that person attention. He got annoyed when at blind, simple person who doesn't
maybe have status right.
Wanted to seek something from him, Allah subhanaw taala, Yanni Subhan, Allah actually corrected the Prophet SAW Salem in that right. So I think it is kind of natural for human beings to sometimes think this platform or this person or this thing is more important, more deserving of my attention or something, you know, then something else. But I think that's where we have to check our intentions, isn't it like some of our shields used to say,
it should be the same to you if one person comes turns on the Halacha or if I