Channel: Edris Khamissa
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Salam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu 12 minutes after 11 you're listening to unmetric on radio Islam International. It is a mushrik program however, it is not Manoj and he does not manage any
last minute commitment could not make it he asked me to stand in for him. That is why you are hearing me at this hour. But nonetheless, we will continue the program with Angular Idris inshallah and if you have any queries you can send us your queries via SMS oh seven triple two, let's oh seven triple to 18384 Alternatively, you can call us on the studio line that's o double one h 541548. And we are discussing about enmeshment was
Lisa, Molly camara de la
la la Mulana? How are you? And hamdulillah How are you doing?
I'm doing so what can I say my younger brother used to have this come to see me with the
connection and all that I feel blessed.
You must tell him about your super valina
we can do a quick recap of the discussion we are currently discussing enmeshment and how we do how to deal with it. Yeah.
The story of the measurement, the one other thing is that
many people sadly, and aren't aware that the victims of enmeshment or the perpetrators of it innovates, and nothing insidious and evil about it. And the people mean, well, sometimes, you know, based on the fact that when when when parents become so overly possessive of undertone there, mollycoddle them. And the other thing that often happens, as we said, that the chain becomes so dependent on the ferengi knows to me, and many other ways that they would not make any decision in their life without getting the consent of the parents. While that is not necessarily a bad thing, but then what they do in the process is not give respect to the spouse, you know, the phone says no
thing, anything, everything, no need to speak my mother about it, or any speak to my father about it. And as a result, what happens is this, the parents, you know, without the money, what they do is strip the kids of their own masculinity, the idea of becoming an authority, and this can have a profound, profound impact. And
sometimes, some of the documents are say that he feels that he's more in love with his mother than is in love.
With me, you know, and so these are things that people, people say, and as a result of it, you find that it creates a lot of problems in the marriage. So therefore, what is important is that we need to understand that you need to understand first is that
your kids need you in the use of the earth in New York, in terms of the growth, the spiritual growth, the physical growth, the most result, the technological growth. And the whole idea is to prepare them for a life in which they have to make decisions that will dissociate other people, they have to get married, and so on and so forth. What happens otherwise, that you are limiting the possibility you're offering the converse opportunity, then? And then this can have a profound negative impact, you know,
you've been involved practically with clients and dealing with such people. What is some of the long term effects? If you have seen after counseling these people? I mean, what are some of the long term ill effects about these things about in
the counseling itself is the first step, the first step and you know, what happens is that when when couples come to me, and when we are prepared to acknowledge that the assembly areas they need to change, and no one's perfect, I mean,
they can go for counseling, they will be allowed to be a something that they can develop now, but when we leave from the counseling session, that's the real test. Now the test is, what are we going to do to effect the change? And that's fundamental because you know what, no two individuals are the same. For example, if you're married to any particular individual who has a low self esteem, then you got the more nurturing and more loving indoctrination.
ship. And when you, for example, are a person that is an independent and aloof interrupts, you will now need to communicate. And that's the point you make, do not respect the person change in your life. That means I don't feel
any measure of success. Because one of the recurring themes that I find that when people come to me minium and say you know what WBC with your time, my husband will never change. And I am often said to them, You know what your husband will change, he won't change. But I found that, from my own experience, that many people who appear to be intransigent, and the him not to be receptive to change, because there's pressure from the government, the change is important, because many people often caught up with the past. And this point, you know,
one of the sister messages from George was reminded that one day should speak to me, people, you know, reversing the situation, they tend to rehearse it. And that is so true. And, and that's the whole point, you see what happens, many of them look at other couples, and they believe all these couples, you know, the relationship is so beautiful. It's so great.
That, you know, you know, sometimes you got, some couples are so happy. But once you get beneath the veneer, you realize that they also have agendas. Sometimes there's a lot of anger contains all kinds of situations. And I think the point that we need to bear in mind is that in this world, and once you have your moments of bliss, you also can be tested. And this is not Jana, you know, it's it's a synchronous digital marriage, and it is integration, that we shall like to do the property analysis, and shall I make sure I know to deal with it. And if your spouse contains with conviction, that magazine was such a wonderful individual, inshallah, so the deal. So these are things that we need
to bear in mind. So after the compensation, there has to be what we call a lifestyle audit, you have to look at it and, and do something about
moving one step backwards, you mentioned that the person has to go for counseling, but what way does the person draw the line? How does he even ascertain that I mean, a enmeshed relationship? I mean, many people will say, I don't see anything wrong about it. So how does one actually reach the conclusion that I am in a situation is in I need to help?
You know what happens?
In a very few cases, where both parties realize at the same time they need to go for counseling is often one of the one or one of the individuals would indicate that, but that's it. There's nothing wrong with it. But what happens then, the man often says, there's nothing wrong with me is wrong with you, and you may be your perfect creation. Now, I will not change any, that you think you're perfect. But the point is this, the fact that your wife is crying out for help, I think you already took a nap. To the point you know, this is a kind of surrealistic attitude many of them have, I did not prepare to go for counseling, they go nothing
wrong with you. The point is, there's a difference. You could have two individuals who may have the best qualities as individuals
in the relationship with the challenges and that often happens, and they can happen. So I think this is important. I really believe that the couple you know, after the first
three years of marriage for six months of marriage, they should all go for counseling, after two years, they should go for counseling, what happens they can lose the passion and the love, they can get guidance, you know, maybe the maybe a small area and maybe it's a good thing that the speaker found objectively my system you know what, I think both of general wonderful nations may or may not keep them happy together. And so on and so forth is very, very important. I think when you look at life, many people you know or lost a loved one. And many of them regret to say you know what, I have not spent enough time with, I could have been
a better wife, or I could have been more engaging. I could have told the number and I did not do that. These are things that happened because in our lives are so connected, we are so busy. We are so busy making a living that
we forget to celebrate our
Family. So these are critical critical things is nothing to be frowned upon to see a counselor.
And I would encourage people to do that, because I see many
systems completely completely frustrated in many of those here. And that, you know, if they have suggested as them that they need to go for counseling, then they are scared of the ramifications and the repercussions in 23 minutes after 11 you're listening to radio slam International, the lines are open, oh, double 1854 and 548. And the SMS line is Oh, seven triple 218384, we are discussing enmeshment and how it impacts our children moving forward. This is perhaps a cultural thing that our parents came from this system that is why we are going through it and then we'll just inevitably go down and down. How do we undo this, then? I think you know what the one of the things that we need
to do is that Firstly, I always said this, I would recommend very, very strongly that
people intend to be married, they should go for premarital counseling. And one of the aspects in premarital counseling should be about is an issue visual conflict disagreement how they should deal with it. Who should they stay across the economic engine, it's very clear the perfect model also, that is an issue you will speak to people
from each of the parties, policing has to be discussed at the very, very beginning. And you'll find that in the days gone by?
Yes, I'm not suggesting the issue. There are many issues. But we are mothers that tremendous, tremendous resilience, and they suffer silently. And they're, and I'm not saying it's a good thing, that was the nature and of our society. That is also because
the law is not frowned upon, it seems that many people say oh, my doctor, and an optimist represented in a and b, they don't seem to see an issue about this.
When you study investment, and I think that more efficacy made to ensure that they're telling the case to the couple, that they need to see someone for support, guys instance, that kind of industrial country, you know, it's never a thing that we do. That is important. And one of the things about conflict is is often it is a conflict that reminds you of what you need to do is the conflict for the relationship to the conflict that makes you aware of your shortcomings and what the couples need to do together to take the relationship to another level. Otherwise, what happens, you might do the same thing every day. And
you've got a good marriage, that your partner may discover a
release, I'd like you to comment on this condition. It says your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of life Longing for itself. They come through you, but not from you. They watch you but they do not belong to you.
While you would most parts out and you should it. The positive aspect is that
as parents, I think we must not suffocate them. We is used as
an analogy that they used to be the conduit as it were for the children that have tremendous, tremendous responsibility. Because if you allow children to grow up in the framework of their own making, and leave them alone, that cannot be problematic. The question is to get the kind of balance the balancing that in the mission was to play your part to make sure that the values of the kids are exposed to other values that are not in 50 countries, that you give them the latitude and freedom at the same time. They are able to confide in you and whenever they have those kinds of challenges. And for me that's that's the issue. And the other issue is is that we do not own our children. No,
Amanda, Amanda, and it's important that we understand that and therefore you cannot you know demand obedience but you can command it is about your own conduct inshallah, which will inspire
you understanding Canadian Islam International, the lines are open Oh double one is 541548 the SMS
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molana Javi Baba on zero double 185415480 double 1851548 we are speaking about enmeshment was uncle Idris lamesa all the way from Kazan. And we have discussed the issue quite a bit now. And it is before the break you were mentioning that they did they need to draw a balance and they need to come under the middle fast. Another question that people ask me, where does the middle path lies? And where is the balance that you're speaking about? How does a person understand this
is a relationship between enmeshment and the other side? Okay, fine. Yes. Yeah. You see, the point is this. People forget the enmeshment is not only in terms of parent child relationships, it also could be between husband and wife You know, in a marital relationship, where you find that the DS is erroneous notion that when a woman gets married when she must
have no aspirations, she must live vicariously only through the husband and Mbeki is not the Islamic interpretation of marriage, governments and to each other
And you and your spouse is also possible to intervene and allow yourself to be
used to also leave a legacy. And this is very important that you need to do that. Now, the feelings you can only get the balance in the relationship, or in the marriage is when you have Shura and the discussion to take place. And so that, to ensure that the aspiration of either of the parties is not relegated to the background, and you'll find that in life.
It depends, again, on the strength of the personality, sometimes, some men will prefer the woman to take the role of the Amiga neither is because they don't feel confident to make decisions. And the woman that starts making the decision to designate a love for the husband to make sure that whenever the system needs it, that is done through discussion without, you know, undermining the husband, because you find that some husbands have a no because of whatever upbringing and whatever, the senior emasculated the indecisive or not? The the fear to make that decision. And important thing is that, you know, there are some basic questions that we need to answer. The one is that in your
marriage, as a marriage has to grow, and if it is no, then it's problematic because the idea of marriage is not free to vegetate, it's important that you go spiritually, psychologically, emotionally in a relationship, and that you benefit from each other's skills and knowledge is one question simply is,
to what extent for example, you are not afraid to communicate and to share your feelings. And it is fear, there is something else. But if there is some kind of
control, as it were, where you almost, you know, negate yourself and you live to your husband, that's a that's another matter that is quite unhealthy. So the issue of balance is very important than the balance that we have some things you and your wife do together in the wife the husband does together. And there are some things that you do on your own. And this is important for your personal growth is important in terms of keeping a balance and to ensure a healthy relationship.
We are talking about enmeshment, the lines are open or double 1854 and 548. Ugly this early on, you mentioned that people do come for counseling and is to seek out help from professionals and so forth. But what kind of help what kind of help is offered out there for those people for these people who are involved in these situations. Specifically, seek counseling is something that can help couples deal with all kinds of situations. The issues have become quite common of infidelity, issues of pornographic addiction, issues of anger management, issues about not having the work life balance, and issues about the terms of not giving the spouse adequate
money to look after the home issues about a conflict in terms of how to read the children, interference from the in laws, a whole range of things. And you'll find that the solution that they are never allowed to send them is the most eloquent example in all of this. And so this is fundamental that the answer then you need to talk about it. And even the fact you're talking about it is also healthy as a result revealing is healing and ended and the question is often asked, When should you go for counseling? I see the sooner the better, because if you allow something to fester, then what it does, it compounds the situation and when that happens, then sadly,
it makes it more difficult to bring about some kind of resolution and amicable agreement and happiness.
So I suppose a couple comes to you now and we're involved in the situation of enmeshment. How would you help them what kind of guidelines would you give them? Okay, this, I would do the following. Firstly, I would firstly try to look at the background and look at the nature of investment to start about the relationships. Were the distinctive parents and speak about that in some detail for me too.
have an idea that to some extent, whether the influence of one or the parents has gone beyond the role and responsibility of parents or one. The second thing is I'll speak about
his friends and speak about, you know, his own decision making process. Because the decision making process is for me, one of the quick deliveries, you know, and he says, No, I always
I do what my mother wants me to do.
I do what my mother wants me to do, even though you may have other thoughts, but I'll do only what my mother wants me to do. For example, my mother wanted me
to be a doctor. So I did mention, you know, my mother wanted me to do this, I did that my mother, you know, everything. And then that happens, that when you realize that the the situation, and once the issue, the most important thing is the person must be aware that he is part of an in meshed relationship. And that's the beginning. Thereafter, you teach them how to deal with it, without undermining the mother, because their mother's love is born out of love, is nothing evil intended. So it's important that how you teach a person to meaning out of it, and to make sure, and the wife herself needs to understand it, and understand that relationship. So he has this one challenge of
maintaining his relationship with his mother, at the same time, ensuring they are clear boundaries in that relationship. And that's fundamental. And it's a slow process. And then, you know, it's also how you deal with it with another. Now the another, you know, often
becomes dependent on such a relationship, for our own well being but what what you're doing in the process, that the world has given some kind of fulfillment, what it does, is that she's denying her son from being the adult, it also has a profound psychological impact on him on his mental health and all of that.
So, what are the symptoms to look out for in a relationship is how the person realizes what are the symptoms
often you find the person that is in the relationship is often enough because your period of time becomes often an active participant in it and you may not realize the nature of it, you may not you may think that the norm and you may not understand that you may feel a almost like a sense of guilt, if he does not do what he thinks is right. Often it's a spouse or someone or a friend who knows the family would understand the dynamics in that relationship. And the process is a long process and you find that initially when you will yourself or your parents also in that sense, you also feel a sense of guilt initially and afterwards inshallah to help you but the point is, is you must not look at
the things now in a negative light you know, which
is not the relationship that the pressures in that way that is bordering on in that way.
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Okay, there is one interesting question that comes to mind is that if you can't beat them, join them. So if the partner is coming from a background where he was in a relationship like this with his parents, and now the wife tried and gave up, now all of a sudden, she also develops the same tendencies, how do you deal with this situation?
complex what happens
in it becomes toxic. And you find that
point in and therefore we atone that believers in medicine to each other. And it's so critical that we are able once we are told to die before your death, it's important for us to interest that can reflect that it's also very, very important to get feedback from other people around you. And you'll find that he learns to as they say, that you can understand when a child is afraid of the dark, but you cannot forgive the man is the light. Once you have to be effectively going to be easy. It can be really, really challenging. It's going to be for you to do things differently. And better. Your point about 19 point about life is that we are in the process of growing all the time, and they're
denied to relationship is a very significant relationship initiative sanctioned by Allah, Allah witnesses as a unica intervention to the goes far beyond the
fundamentals, it is very critical for us to ensure that our relationships are wholesome, because if you become an active partner in all of this, then it has a profound impact on your children also
profound profound impacts and you're gonna grow up in an environment that is completely unhealthy. Because what you need to do is to change this vicious circle is a virtuous circle, you're going to stem the tide, somewhere along the line.
Oh 71854154807, triple 218384. But it is you're mentioning that when the couples do come for counseling, and you ask them now, you look at the background, and if the parents are heavily influenced in your ask them to draw the balance there. But now the question is there, I suppose do they have? I suppose they don't, are not so good in communicating this message to the parents? How do they actually get this message across? I mean, the mother is usually for the past 30 or 35 years and how do they unwind it?
That's really a challenging one, because you find
that, you know, you're going to use a lottery, you got to use a lottery. What they often happens is that the last one is to eliminate your payment from that. The other option is in couples can cope
and thrive in sunrise and traditional relationship. Because the sun was able to extricate itself from the investment, then try and do nothing and discuss it, you know, you just create the borders as it were. And therefore I recommend very strongly that for couples to have a harmonious relationship, they must have what they call a daily and indirect way to make sure that you're fulfilling
obligations your parents, you know, as you should, and at the same time ensuring that you've not alienate yourself from the relationship.
important that we need to do that. I guess what I also find very amazing and astonishing is that the same household and but different children coming out at the end of the day, for example, the eldest son or the eldest daughter is much more stronger in life as compared to the last one that is a total softy. So I mean, they do have the ability of exercising the same, but why is this such a big discrepancy?
mistakes we make, you cannot bring up your children the same way. The values are the same, the length of the world is radical. And you cannot adopt the same approach. And the other thing that often happens that we did the first one I know our parents, the other kids coming in the same parents who might have been strict disciplinarian, or what you call Martinez become very, very soft with the care kids and the following skeptical kids. And they also learn from the mistakes that maybe initially, and sometimes what happens on the one extreme, these are kind of harsh, punitive measures and the other extreme, what happens is this parents
to stop, so you could have that kind of balance, and understand that and this is, and therefore, when tendency to treat kids differently that's similar to the different. Yes, the nasty party, today's parents are different. And I'm not suggesting that you continue to be harsh and punitive. But then you become overly indulgent when you're creating ridicule, indicating the lifetime.
value for children understand that this world can be challenging. And once you have the challenges, you've got to make sure that they turn themselves also accept responsibility. Interesting point, you make this a landscape has changed altogether. I mean, we do find parents still seeing through today making mulpuru so badly. Sorry, but he Oh, he's changed. So how does a Sunday draw the parents day? How does the sun draw the bed is one side, his mother in St. Paul oberliga said he's got his wife. So using a catch 22 situation.
And then that's the point. The point is that we are not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, right? Very important. And you know, what's important is that, you know, in a happy marriage relationship is not when the husband says yes to everything. I mean, that to me is wrong. There are times when he has a certain certainty. You know what I thought about this, I don't think we can go ahead with this. Because you say no, similarly with parenting, you cannot, for example, in developing the Chinese to gratification, so coming to whatever be a thing all the time, every time. And this is fundamental in any relationship. I need to I understand that. And once you know, at that time, there
may be some negativity but afterwards, I mean, the childhood you become the young adult will appreciate
what the parents have done, you know, there's a message coming through on groceries, reads a Santa Monica, my parents are very possessive. And no matter what I do, they never happy, always criticized. I'm happily married, but often feel worthless, please advice.
Yeah, you see, you know, it also stems from you know, parents, you know, I, I often say this, the parents are amongst the few people who want the children to be better than their parents, you know, judgmental, critical, and it just ties the kids, it's important to look back at the way they're being brought up. Because, as children, we either embrace the best or the worst, or sometimes we don't embrace it, too, from the presidency, and apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. And I think that, you know, the sometimes need to speak to our parents with love and affection, he said, the mommy Daddy, you know, I've grown up in this home, but you have never told him to love me have
never even now never, once ever praise me. And that is important that can do that cannot go to the other extreme. Neither can we both the extreme of suggesting that your kids are you know, Chinese angel is a perfect being. And you train them to such an extent that, you know, they have a kind of lopsided view about who they are, you know,
that you do that. And I think if you
what's important is that you only raise the issue if you know that
If not create unnecessary friction. If you can deal with it, then just move on. You know I just said sometimes some things are best said unsaid and there's more to be gained from your silence and gain from you know, talking about it in a way that can be debilitating or
another lengthy message coming through Theresa Monaco, many mothers are accused of interfering in the son's businesses. In fact, it's the other way around. Many daughter in laws are poking their noses in this in the in laws, businesses. My sister's daughter in law doesn't want to do anything with my sister, and she even makes my nephew swear and fight with my sister. My sister is not even allowed to visit my nephew and she has no say in the decisions. When their decisions go wrong. They blame it entirely on my sister, even though she had no say in it. I want to ask brother Avery's a question. You always speak fondly of your mother. You mean, you didn't make Sidmouth of her? You
didn't make masasa?
Yes, you know what, I always do Matura with my parents, right. But what I find is important, I'm glad your sister at issue. And I deal with some very, very serious cases where you know where the daughter in law makes it very clear to the husband, I want you to have nothing to do with your mother, I want you to have nothing to do with your family. I mean, you know, I told one,
teacher, if you don't have anything for them, it's your business. You cannot impose that on your argument, what you are doing, you're denying them that you are doing. And to me, even when people do this, it shows that low self esteem, they are insecure people and does not fully understand, you know, the whole aspect of marriage, the marriage might be surprises in between you and your spouse. But when you marry someone, you marry both family, you cannot eliminate yourself from the family. And it's important to understand that it is also important that we are living in this world. And in this world. We live in a temporary world and these are never eternal bliss. And this is all mature
people are able to learn all kinds of relationships. All of us are different. We all have our shortcomings. But when people say those things to me, is unacceptable. And something that I frowned upon. And it's something that needs to change in
this we've reached the end of today's edition of the program, your your concluding thoughts before we close off my concluding thoughts is that we are born to die. We need to serve Allah and what is very, very important that we need to make amends in our relationship. You got to ask yourself to what extent you create in harmony in the home, to what extent you are creating, you know, suspicion you're creating doubt you're trading on happiness. And that it's important for us to understand that because you know sooner or later we are going to die and what kind of legacy you are leaving behind. I know and I always say this. That was I know this was done on the earth. It doesn't mean you're
home as hell on earth and if it was your spouse they would do this is my
honeymoon every day. Shan Shan ma,
ma ma. He will cancel