Palestine Solution Podcast with Ali Brothers

Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. And welcome back to the Isley Brothers Podcast. Today Insha Allah we have another special international guest with us we have brother Assad non received from the UK. Mr. Dunn Rashid is an internationally renowned historian, Islamic apologist and numismatist. Inshallah, we'll ask him about what exactly that means and what he does. In relation to that. Actually, we're gonna get straight into it. What?

First of all, welcome to Dre brothers podcast. It's great to have you on. Thank you so much for having me again.

So we'll get started with dat. What is a numismatist? What do you do in that sense? Manga Rahim. A numismatist is someone who studies coins.

So it could be ancient coins. It could be medieval coins, it could be more than coins. So someone who is an expert on coins, or have a particular branch of coins is called near numismatist. So in my introduction, a lot of people when they try to read this word, because they don't know what it means, they always make a mistake. So alhamdulillah you got it right?

Is there any particular types of coins from a particular year that you have a special interest in? I'm generally fascinated by history, you know, anything to do with history, ancient medieval, I'm not into modern stuff. I'm not into machine coins, you know, coins that were struck by machines, I'm more into hand struck coins. And they tend to be very natural or organic, in the production. So and they have their own beauty because they saw sometimes the crude, sometimes they are off the flan. And sometimes they are there are imperfections and coins made by hand. And that's the beauty of it. So I like to collect those coins, specifically Islamic coins. I am interested in Islamic coins from

the Omega period all the way up to the Mughals in India. So that's my interest. And Alhamdulillah I've been blessed by Allah subhanaw taala with a very

good collection. Very good. I think coins also tell a lot about history. If I'm not mistaken the coins that were used early on and some history that came from the Roman Empire. So there's there's an interesting way how civilizations kind of interact in that way. Absolutely, absolutely coins can tell so many stories coin can teach you how prosperous these societies were in the past how civilizations were rising and declining, you can see that in coins, you can see that in the quality of the metal they used for example, if gold gold quantity is heavy, it's pure in coins, that means that particular civilization that dynasty in that period was very strong financially. And when you

start to see decline in the metal for example, gold gold quality starts to decline or there is lesser golden coins. Then you know, the the monetary condition of that particular dynasty and civilization is declining. So coins can tell you a lot of stories you can tell about the culture you can by looking at the calligraphy you can see how advanced certain civilizations dynasties kingdoms were in putting their art expression on the coin. So you can see sculptures from the Greek period, you can see Roman emperors on coins, you can see the religious expression on the coins as well. Sometimes there are political statements made on coins, coins are used for propaganda. Coins are

used for all sorts of things for religious reasons, for economic reasons, for propaganda reasons for political ends, for military ends, okay? Sometimes to even convey

what you love about, you know, your your, your civilization, let's say, you know, sometimes people express their love for their wives, Kings express their love for the wives in coins by minting coins in the names of the Queen's Okay, so,

I mean, I can go on and on and on and talk about how important coins are for us. We can resolve religious issues through coins looking at coins, Islamically speaking. I mean, we have coins from the early period of Islam, where our Salah is depicted, right yeah, on a coin from 74 Hijiri minted in Iraq during the reign of the malignant Marwan one of the homemade Caylus he had a brother called bescherming. Marwan who depicted the Calif praying Salah on the coin with two followers. So, I mean, there is so much it's unbelievable. Sometimes you see religious formulas put down on coins, like sectarian

points are made like the Hawaii bridge in the first century. And in the second century of Islam, they minted coins with formulas coverage formulas, la hochma. Allah Allah is from the coins. So coins are very, are a very powerful source of learning history. Very interesting, very interesting. We'll move on to history in general and actually yesterday, you're with us

and Ireland again. And you're a guest of the TCD MSA, the Muslim Student Association in Trinity College Dublin, for another year. And yesterday, we went to the Chester Beatty library here in Dublin, which houses a very special collection, specifically of Islamic artifacts on Islamic pieces. So I think you've been there before, and you went there yesterday as well. So what's your experience of what we have in the Chester Beatty library and how you would encourage people to, to see library I believe just to be the library has one of the greatest collections of Islamic manuscripts in the world outside of the Middle East. Some of the best Islamic manuscripts are preserved in Chester

Beatty library. And I'm surprised that Muslims living in Ireland are mostly not aware. Some people are of course you had been there, and Al Hamdulillah. Those who are better informed, are aware of this treasure and they do go and look at it. But look, Muslims who live in Ireland in particular, you really have to behold as they say, you know, this particular collection, and they keep changing it. What we saw on display wasn't even 1%. As we were told by the gods, they they keep rotating the collection. And this collection consists of Japanese artwork, or Japanese manuscripts and artifacts. Then it consists of some European

books and prints and European cultural productions. And then there is a mind blowing Islamic section. Allahu Akbar, Chester Beatty was a very cultured man, I'm so inspired by this man's character. You know, I didn't read about him before I knew about the library, but I hadn't. I hadn't gone into the details of his life. He was an engineer. He was into mining. He was American. And he made his money from mining. And he used his money to buy all these amazing masterpieces of art, from different cultures from, from Japanese art to European prints to Islamic manuscripts. He got exposed to Islamic matters manuscripts in Egypt, he would love to go to Egypt and spend time there with his

wife because he had some respiratory problem and dry climate actually suited him. And that took him to Egypt. And I think Allah was planning all of this, Allah used people to preserve our history for us. Absolutely. So Allah used him and his wealth to protect the history of Islam and Muslims. We really have to appreciate that. And he went when he was in Egypt, he found these manuscripts people because he had interest in books. He was a book collector.

And by the way, I'm a book collector as well. I'm not only an anesthetist, I'm also a bibliophile, someone who collects books, and I have a library of my own. That's why I admire and, you know, really celebrate people like Chester Beatty. So he collected these manuscripts, top of the rain, some of the best, you know, quality manuscripts you can find anywhere in the world, ranging from early Quran manuscripts to medieval Quran manuscripts to Hadees manuscripts, penned during the middle ages, from the 1213 1415 century manuscripts or on poetry on

you know, epics, Islamic epics written in the Persian language. And there is a lot of decoration on these manuscripts, gold, gold decoration, gold illumination, and then masterpieces of calligraphy, so beautifully penned by so many different, important individuals. And he must have spent a fortune, a fortune accumulating this, this as collection. So it is a travesty my brothers and sisters, if you live in Dublin, and if you live in Ireland, and you haven't seen this collection is a travesty. How can Muslims even appreciate the history if they have this treasure at their doorstep, and they don't actually go and look at it. So I really invite everyone to check out Chester Beatty library. And

it's not only important for Islamic collections. It's also important for biblical manuscripts. There are some of the some of the most ancient biblical New Testament manuscripts found in this collection. He also got these manuscripts from Egypt because papyrus was produced in Egypt. And these documents.

For example, the earliest manuscript of the gospel Gospel of Mark, I think is found in Chester Beatty library. Pretty sure it's there, because we saw some of them yesterday. And some of the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament written in the Greek language in Egypt, on papyrus are found in this collection. And they are from the third century see almost two hundreds, let's say to hundreds, these I mean, it's a very, very important collection and we cannot

suggested by BT enough for, for doing this. So googling Chester Beatty, okay? And check out his collection is online and those who live in Ireland, you have to come and see it. Definitely, definitely. And it's something that everyone can really appreciate it even for history isn't something that you personally have a great interest in arida, you delve into much detail in terms of what you're studying in university, for example. But once you immerse yourself in those collections, in the Islamic collections, there was one manuscript on that was a hadith collection

from, I think, the 12th 12th century. Yes, and it just connects you back to that timeframe. It's, it's really,

it's a different experience. So it's something that definitely, we want to make sure that everyone does go down to Chester, Chester Beatty library to have that experience as well. So coming into Islamic history, and how

history and studying history is important and even necessary from an Islamic perspective. And obviously, you can study history for a number of reasons that there's the academic side of it, but specifically to take lessons and to take ethics and moral lessons from history is something that we tend not to focus on as much. And actually, the the talk that you gave in Trinity College yesterday, it was probably the first time that we had that kind of connection, to see how those lessons from the Quran and from Islamic history can help in making us better human beings better Muslims, in terms of practicing has done so can you perhaps talk about one or two stories from the Quran from

Islamic history that can go into more detail about the the ethics that we can take from them? Okay, being Muslims, we have to study history by default. That's the default position. Without history our faith is not complete. We cannot have Islam without history. Okay, our Hadith literature, the tradition of the Prophet is history. The Stories of the Prophets are history. Okay? Allah uses history as one of his most powerful arguments in the Quran for humanity or against humanity. Okay, so Allah reminds us repeatedly, of historic events of the past. For example, Allah says how do we learn to shoot on your resume along Tara cave of Allah Buka biard era modality Linamar de la Killam,

yoke luck, Mizzou flb, LA, do you not see what your Lord did to the people of ad they were very powerful, no one was created like them, and they used to call mountains. So Allah is telling you how powerful they were. But they denied Allah, they rejected Allah and therefore they are no more. The monuments are there, but you cannot find these people they perished, they have perished. So no matter how powerful you become, you should not reject Allah, you cannot reject the law, you cannot become so proud and haughty, that you start to ignore your Creator. The ultimate source of power, the ultimate source of

knowledge and progress. Okay, so this is the point Allah is making the Quran through history. And that's why Allah repeatedly tells us the Stories of the Prophets for two ends. One is to warn us about

those disbelieving powers, arrogant powers like the establishment of Iran or the pharaohs in Egypt. At the same time, the virtues of the prophets. They were great people, not because they were businessmen. They were generals or they were kings, because they upheld Allah's command. They upheld Allah's law, they upheld Allah's message, they brought that message to humanity. So the best people to walk the planet, in other words, are those who call to Allah, the prophets of Allah and those who follow them. And the worst people on the planet are those who fight them, those who fight the caller's to Allah and oppress them, or brutalize them and become arrogant because of the power. So,

there are so many lessons we can learn from history in the Quran. So history is by default, an obligation upon Muslims, every Muslim must, must study history must contemplate on history and take lessons from it. And this is part of our Scripture. And Allah even goes further to say our beloved Chicago regime, see rueful Earth fund guru cave akana RK baton McCarthy been go in the land and see what happened to those who came before you. They denied Allah. They denied Allah and look what happened to them. So Allah is pointing to all these previous civilizations

that disbelieved in a lot and eventually perished. Having done all that great stuff, right? You see the monuments of the Greeks. You see the

Roman remains, you see the Egyptian monuments, you see Babylonian inscriptions, okay and and the carvings in northern Iraq and Syria. So there is so much Allah talks about that and when it comes to history so history is one of the most powerful arguments Allah uses in the Quran to teach us lessons. So What lessons do we learn from the Quran, reading history within the Quran, number one, you cannot deny Allah. You cannot reject Allah, Allah is the ultimate source of power. Allah is the ultimate source of peace you want peace, turn to Allah, okay. You want prosperity in this life and in the hereafter and there is a there is a Hereafter you will face Allah, then turn to Allah. Okay?

Also, do not oppress, do not do injustice, if you do, you will pay for it in this life. And in the Hereafter, no matter how powerful, how influential, how educated you are, don't oppress, suppress, decimate, or kill innocent people or don't do any acts of oppression and injustice. Don't do it, because you will pay for it in this life and in the hereafter. Another lesson we'll learn is that compassion will never die. Compassion is Forever Living, why acts of compassion have been documented by Allah in the Quran for us to read and take

inspiration from them. And I mentioned some of them in my lecture yesterday, for example, Hydra running up and down between some and Marwa. This was an act of compassion for her baby chat for her baby.

You know, it's my Lily salaam who was dying of thirst. And she was in her frustration running up and down between Safa and Marwa. And Allah mentions it specifically in the Quran that Safa and Marwa verily indeed Safa and Marwah are from the signs of Allah, what sign is there, the sign is compassion. The sign is dedication. Okay. So, there are so many other examples, for example, another sabe, who was noted by Allah subhanaw taala. In the Quran, a person who prefers others his brother over himself, and this is regarding an incident whereby a Sahabi, a companion of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam had little food left and he had a guest at his house. So he turned off the light,

or the lamp, so that he can pretend to eat while he's not eating, and his brother can have his fill. So this act of compassion was noticed by Allah subhanaw taala in the Quran, so compassion never dies, compassion will always live kindness, compassion, generosity, Mercy will always live and it is long lasting, while oppression injustice will crumble, will die will perish in this life, and in the Hereafter, it will be a cause of disgrace. So these are the lessons we learned the Quran very in a in a very brief summary. So history is a must for all Muslims, we ignore it, we neglected we don't pay attention to it, because we are lost in other things in life, you know, but it is part of our

religion. Without history, without studying history of our Prophet or prophets before our Prophet, we cannot learn our faith. So it's a default position. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely.

It's, it's very interesting. It's important for us as Muslims, specifically that when we do study history, that we do it with the intention of getting some knowledge, some of those ethical lessons can actually improve us ourselves as as Muslims, rather than being it's a catastrophe that people who study Islamic literature, for example, Islamic scholars, in that sense are people who study who are students of Islam and Islamic history, that they confine themselves to the didactic lessons, as in they study the history, they study the dates, they study the names of all the people from the past, but they don't take the lessons from those stories. As you mentioned, yesterday, that there is

one act, that

there was one act that a woman did that because of that we will continue as Muslims to do that, until until we continue to have lunch. And we were all confused on who was asked that question yesterday in the college and the day before he were in Galway. We were all thinking it must be the Carhart must be some other act of worship. But it was the fact that the wife of Ibrahim Ali Salam, she ran from suffer and marijuana and those two locations who are known by those locations because of that act of compassion, that she's running between those locations trying to find water for her son. So compassion never dies as you as you said, and more we also learn from that is standing up

and taking action taking responsibility for the situation at hand. Even if it's

is not your fault. If you consider it that way. If you stand up and do something about it, there's Baraka in there. There's, there's blessings. It's not like you're gonna be left alone. Even if you stand up and you do something. You I think you mentioned yesterday there was a statement of valley or the Lavon, where he said something along the lines of that Allah will preserve a non Muslim nation, which upholds justice. And the same can be said for a Muslim caliphate or a Muslim nation that is ruled under Islamic laws. But justice isn't part of that. Yes. So that's a very strong lesson for us to learn as Muslims. And perhaps we can go into more detail about this, this aspect

that as Muslims, we take control of the narrative in that sense that we stand up for ourselves. And we show what Islam really is about rather than sitting back and complaining about the issue, complaining about how other people look at us that we stand up and we take that

initiative. So coming on to some more topical issues. Of course, these issues are important for us in all situations, but when it comes to the recent escalation in regards to what's happening in the Middle East, Israel and Palestine, if we can go back in history, as you're a historian, and if you can tell us about some of the history with regards to the Jews and the Muslims, who were, who were there in the first place, what's the Islamic perspective on the Jews being in that area? If you can give us some, some history with regards to that, from, from his look, the Quran tells us speaking as a Muslim, from the Islamic perspective, the Quran tells us that the Israelites were a chosen people

of people of God, Allah chose them, okay, over the rest of humanity. But some of them didn't appreciate that choice made by Allah subhanaw taala. And they started to disbelieve in prophets, okay, and some of them even killed profits, while others believed in profits. So they were, if we were to reduce them into two categories, there were two categories, two types of people, those who believed in the profits and followed them and those who rejected the profits and started to kill them. Okay, and because of that, this favor was taken away from them. And this is even alluded to in the New Testament when Jesus allegedly told the Israelites that if you don't pay heed, if you don't

fix up this privilege, this honor that was given to you that so many prophets came from you will be given to another people. And we use that reference for the Arabs that the Arabs were given that honor and privilege privilege through the advent of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, Salah lawless Allah. So after the Roman period, let's say, I mean, first of all, the Israelites ruled the land of Palestine having come from Egypt, as the religious history goes, they came into the land of Canaan, okay, the land of Palestine was called the land of Canaan and the people were called Canaanites. Okay. They were basically conquered by the Israelites after the liberation from the

pharaohs. Okay, and they took this land and King David Dao De La salaam, he ruled the land of Palestine, and he established a capital at Jerusalem. What we today today the city is called Jerusalem also outputs and magical OXA is their magical OXA is the same temple that was built by Solomon Elisa ROM. Okay, somewhere around 1000 BC before Christ, okay. And this is what we call Masjid Al Aqsa.

And this is basically the entire compound the whole piece of land about 37 Odd acres of land on Temple Mount, okay, we call the whole sanctuary the whole spot, I mean, not just the buildings not dome with the rock and mud armor, but the entire surrounding is much of the X rays, the whole land, the basically whatever.

however big the land is, okay, so the entire

stretch of land is called material AXA, this isn't really to the temple man from a Jewish perspective. From the Jewish perspective, they also believe in the same thing that it was Temple of Solomon that stood on this board once upon a time. So that's our temple, basically. And we we don't deny that of course, that was the Israelite temple, built to worship Allah alone. And Prophet Solomon to ask for the Muslim, right because he's surrendered his desires and his will to Allah subhanaw taala he was a king who was a noble king who was a prophet of God, and he also

built this house to worship God and who is God Allah, okay call him Allah him call him Allah He call him Allah, same word coming from the same root word do you know Aramaic Hebrew and Arabic assister languages? And the word for God is? l il, Allah, Allah He Elohim use whatever word you like. It is the same God

that was worshipped by Abraham, by Moses, by Joseph and by the 12 tribes and by the King David and King Solomon and all those prophets of Allah. Okay, so Soleimani Lai Salam, King Solomon built that temple, but we call today much of the Aqsa So Muslims later on honored this place to rebuild the temple. Okay. As far as the Israelite history is concerned,

they were banished from this land, the Israelites were taken away a number of times on this land, okay. First there was an Assyrian invasion. Okay, that took away 10 tribes of the Israelites, those 10 tribes disappeared from history completely. We don't know who they were,

and what they followed and what kind of religion or what kind of version of the teachings of Moses they had, we don't know. We we have no idea as to what they you know, followed in terms of religion. Also.

We have another issue. The issue is the 10 tribes disappearing with the Assyrians. Assyrians were a civilization that came from northern Iraq. Okay. And this happened in 721 BC, then fast forward another 150 years. In 587 BC, another civilization, another dynasty, called the Babylonians from Iraq, attacked what remained of the Israelites in the land of Judea, with the capital as Jerusalem. So the Temple of Solomon was destroyed, razed to the ground for the first time in history. And the Babylonians took the entire population of the Israelites into Babylon current debt Iraq, just as the Assyrians had done with 10 tribes and in 50 years before, okay, so this, this is what remains of the

Jewish people today. Okay, those two tribes that were left in Judea with the capital of Jerusalem, today, the Jewish people predominantly come from two tribes, the Levites and the Judah heights, okay. So they were taken, taken into exile and then in 537 BCE, a Persian king

from the Achaemenid dynasty, he had taken Babylon from the Babylonians, and then he allowed the Israelites to come back to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. So the Israelites came back to Jerusalem, some of them some remain behind in Iraq, and they rebuilt the temple. Then the temple was destroyed once again in seven TCE by the Romans For the second time, and since then, the temple has never been built. Okay. And then in 130, to see Emperor Hadrian, he banished the Jewish people, on pain of death from the land of Palestine, because there was a revolt against the Romans called revolt of Bar Kokhba. This was a messianic figure, he claimed to be the Promised Messiah, but he

wasn't the Promised Messiah.

And the Romans crushed that revolt viciously. And the Jewish people or the Israelites, whatever remained of them were banished, on pain of death, then start the Jewish Diaspora, the Jewish exile into foreign lands, and the Jewish people spread throughout the planet Earth. And they were persecuted heavily for the next four to 500 years, extremely persecuted, very much marginalized. And living on the edge as they say, you know, after the Romans came, the Christians, the Catholics, and they started to persecute the Jewish people, because the Jewish people were accused of being

God killers, because they were accused of killing Jesus Christ, right? Oh, crucifying Him. They according to the gospel narrative.

And that caused a lot of persecution against the Jewish people. Then came Islam in the seventh century. And now the Jewish people could have a period of relief for the next 1000 years. This is something very powerful. And this is absolutely fascinating. I've done a podcast with Muhammad hijab, very recently. It can be found on his channel, titled something like Islam and the Jewish people, something like that. Okay, you can watch it. And I give a lot of evidence in this regard how the Jewish people prospered under the rule of Islam for over 1000 years. There are Jewish scholars

who confirm that majority of the Jewish people, or the overwhelming majority of the Jewish people moved into the domain of Islam because they could find peace there. They lived in peace. The Muslims, having known the differences between themselves and the Jews, allowed them to live in peace. As citizens of the Islamic domain. The Jewish people had to pay the Jizya tax of course, which was not a lot of money. By the way, a lot of propagandists and Islamophobes, they tried to claim the jizya was backbreaking kind of tax night wasn't okay. If you study the history of Islam, the Islamic civilization from Spain to China, let's say, right, this was a large stretch of land

ever ruled by one group of people for so long. Okay. Of course, there was no utopia. There was no perfection, there were periods of disturbances and even pilgrims, occasionally, but the norm the overwhelming norm for 1000 years, okay, putting aside all the exceptional disturbances, it was peace, and the Jewish people themselves testified to this peace. They lived in peace in London loose under the rule of Islam. They lived in peace in the Middle East under the rule of the Mamelukes. And the ubitx and then the Ottomans came later on, the Ottomans took them in as cousins, right. And the evidence, and the details can be seen in that podcast I did with Muhammad hijab on this very topic.

But the point is, Jewish historians today.

Okay, who have studied all these primary sources, testify to the fact that the Jewish people lived far better lives under the rule of Islam than they did under Christendom. Okay, people like Zion Zohar and American Jewish historian, he writes that the Jews had a golden age in Islamic Spain, from the year 900 to 1200. For 300 years, the Jewish people produced some of the best scholars, points, theologians, rabbis, prime ministers, generals, intellectuals, in this period.

Then we had the oldest Jewish community in the world in Iraq. So when the Muslims came and took Iraq, they didn't persecute the Jewish people. Okay, so then there is another scholar called Jacob Lesnar, also Jewish. And he writes the same thing that the majority of the Jewish people throughout the Middle Ages for over 1000 years, lived under under the rule of Islam, and the prospect. They had prosperity they were happy. Same, Amnon Cohen. And Ron Cohen is another Israeli Jewish historian who wrote on Ottoman history in particular, he studied the court records of the city of Jerusalem during the Ottoman period from the year 1500 to 1570. And in these court records, he found 1000 Jewish

cases filed at the Islamic court with the kadhi. They want it to be ruled by Sharia, even though the Jewish people have their own rabbis and their own courts. But some of them are coming to the Islamic court because justice would be served quicker at the Islamic court than it would be at the Jewish court in Jerusalem. And this is clearly stated by Amnon Cohan, in his book, a word from within a study of sigil of Jerusalem. Okay.

So he states that the Jewish people of Jerusalem were very prosperous, they were very happy, they had nothing to complain about the subjects of the Sultan, who was a sultan, predominantly at this time. So to answer him on the magnificent one of the Ottoman emperors, or Ottoman one of the Ottomans will pants. So it is it is a very, absolutely fascinating history, how the Jewish people lived with the Muslims for over 1000 years. What changed is the question, what happened? What turned the relationship better, right? And all of the changed in the 1930s, which is interesting, because you're saying from from a historical perspective, if you look at it from

from a fair lens, understanding that there wasn't that kind of tension between Muslims and Jews, as religious

as religious divisions, it wasn't something like this, even Muslims, Jews and Christians, we come back the three Abrahamic faiths. From an Islamic perspective, we're very close to these three religions. These three reasons are very close. So why is it now like you're saying there's a shift? So let's, let's go into that. Where did this shift come from? That people are now saying that no, perhaps Muslims are anti semitic? So we can go into more detail with regards to everything changed after the rise of Zionism and extremist political ideology that was born in Europe due to European anti semitism. Okay, an extreme hatred of the Jewish people gave rise to another extreme

reaction called Zionism. I guess Zionism is not the doing of Orthodox Jewish rabbis. Or it is not a product of Judaism necessarily. There were some Jewish intellectuals who came up with the idea that because we are so hated in Europe, in Europe, this is a very important point. Everyone has to remember that the Jewish people will massacred genocided Holocaust bed, okay, and killed off

and persecuted throughout the history of Europe. Europe was always anti semitic. Today, for some reason, European governments and intellectuals and politicians have become champions of Judaism or the Jewish people. They are not. They don't represent the Jewish people. They represent an extremist group of activists who may not necessarily be religious, but they are a bunch of political activists, and they follow an extremist ideology called Zionism. Okay. So if you look at the European history, the Jewish people,

Orthodox, practicing religious Jewish people always persecuted in Europe, always when I say always, I'm not just making a blanket statement, okay. There were exceptional cases where they had periods of respite, very short periods of respite within the European history because the Kings needed the Jewish people to run their financial affairs. Okay. But whenever the Christians in Europe found an opportunity to massacre the Jewish people, for example, it happened during the Crusades. The Crusaders before they reached the Middle East on the way they killed off pretty much every single Jewish community that came across this happened in Germany, in Rhineland, okay. And many European

kings are guilty of banishing the Jewish people, persecuting them. Okay, so the Europeans were inherently anti semitic. So Zionism was was born of European anti semitism. It has nothing to do with Islam. For some reason the Zionist accused the Muslim civilization of brutalizing the Jewish people. This is why we talk so much about how prosperous the Jewish people were under the rule of Islam. And this is just propaganda. Okay, so, there was a man called Theodor Herzl, who was a, who was an Austro Hungarian journalist. And he had seen anti semitism in Europe because he was a well traveled journalist within Europe, and he could see that the Europeans are extremely anti semitic,

and an accumulation or the peak of that anti semitism basically appeared during the Holocaust, the Germans, they managed to kill 6 million Jews. Okay. And this is one of the greatest catastrophes in human history. Okay. So Theodore Hertzel, he came up with this idea that we need a homeland of our own way we can protect our people, not from the Muslims, again, keep this in mind. This is from the Europeans, right, because they had they had been brutalizing the Jewish people. So Zionism is a product of European anti semitism, anti Jewish sentiment that was blowing throughout Europe, for all the for all the time since recorded history. Right. So

it was only after the Holocaust, the Europeans woke up that hold on a second. Enough is enough, we have maybe gone too far. committing these acts of criminality against the Jewish people. Now we have to make laws to protect the Jewish people. Okay. Alhamdulillah no such thing happened in Muslim history. Okay.

So,

so a bunch of Zionist came together. They want I mean, they some people, some Jewish intellectuals, they will read his book, the Jewish state, Theodore hurtle, he wrote a book, he put down his theory in a book titled the Jewish state. Okay, he had a dream of this Jewish state. And where do we establish it? Zion came up, this is what they call Zinus. Zion means Palestine. Okay. The land of Palestine is called Zion. So we will make the state in Palestine on Palestinian land. The question came up, what do we do with the Palestinians? Okay, so many ideas have proposed, it is a long story. I'm making it very short and simple. Many intellectuals and thinkers, Zionist thinkers. Now, Zionism

has broken away from Orthodox Judaism. You have to remember a lot of people try to conflate Judaism with Zionism. Zionism is a completely separate ideology. It's not Judaism, right. So this is where the split happened. So these thinkers, intellectuals, some of them atheists, some of them agnostic, some of them some they're not, they're not even religious Jews. They

started to campaign for a separate homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. So how do we take this land?

We either buy it and we cannot buy it. We remove the the Palestinian people from the land by hook or by crook, we must take this land, then comes this first Zionist conference in Switzerland in 1897, where all of these intellectuals get together and they decide that we must pursue a homeland in Palestine. Then they started to campaign for it. They even approached the den Ottoman emperor, or the Sultan Sultan Abdulhamid and offered him to pay off his debts to the Europeans. He owed debts to Europeans, European bankers, they said we will pay off your debts if you give us the land of Palestine and Theodore hurtful himself had that

prospect going, but this was flatly refused by this whole time, he said, he said, I mean,

as as as buried as I am under this threat, I am not going to give away this land that belongs to Muslims, not even an inch, not even an inch. So, then came the First World War. And the British took the land of Palestine from the Ottomans in 1970. In General Allenby enter the city of Jerusalem, and he takes it and in the same year, the then foreign secretary of Britain called Arthur Belfer, for some reason rights away, or gives away the land of Palestine on paper to some Zionist activists in London, one of them Lord Rothschild, Okay, Lord Rothschild, who was a Jewish banker was an intellectual who was a Zionist, basically, the land of Palestine was promised to him against the

wishes of the Palestinian people. The land doesn't belong to the British. Okay, so this promise was made to the Zionist movement. And then slowly, many Zionist European Zionists started to move into the land of Palestine, they started to buy the land, and then the Palestinians realized something funny is going on. These people are trying to settle in our land, and they're going to take away our land. And then the design is started to pass, you pressurize the British government to give away the land to them. And the British government wasn't ready to do that. There was this British Mandate going on after the conquest of Palestine. During the First World War, the British government put a

mandate to rule the land of Palestine, this period is called the British Mandate, period. Okay. And this continued until the Second World War came in. And then some of these Zionist activists, they started to commit acts of terrorism against British personnel, they started to blow up British personnel. I mean, there was a famous bombing, called the bombing of King David Hotel, when nearly 90 people died, including British personnel. And this was done by the first prime minister of Israel, he was directly behind it begging, he was directly behind it, behind this act of terror. And this was to basically warn the British that you better give us the land as quick as possible. 94

year long story short, the land, also the State of Israel is announced, and the League of Nations give gives away half the land of Palestine against the wishes, and the desires of the Palestinian people to a foreign European entity called designers.

And this was one of the greatest injustices of the 20th century. And the conflict goes on to this day, the Palestinian people refused to accept this injustice, and didn't want to leave the land, and then came back about the great catastrophe. When the Zinus these very terrorists, they started to kill Palestinians and drive them out of their homes. Nearly a million people were driven out of out of the lands, the homes and those who refuse to leave, they were killed off, they were bombed, they were shot, they were burnt, villages are burnt down, you know, towns upon towns are razed to the ground. And then these Zinus settlers are coming in with the guns and heavy weapons to drive out the

Palestinians. So a million Palestinians in 1948 were driven out of their homes, some of them can be found, or their descendants can be found in current day versa. So this conflict wasn't born of a vacuum. Okay. Seventh of October 2023 is not the beginning of the conflict between the Palestinians and the so called Zionist state of Israel. Okay, this conflict started at the very time when the Zionist settlers started to come into the land of Palestine and occupy illegally occupy the land of the Palestinians that is still going on to this day United Nations has issued so many motions

And condemnations of the State of Israel. It doesn't pay heed to anything. The State of Israel feels so powerful, so arrogant,

and so,

so influential, that they can go on taking land illegally. And some of these so called civilians are armed with heavy web heavy weapons, and they're using these weapons. And they're taking to this day as we speak, they are taking homes in the Westbank from Palestinian people, driving them out, killing them, shooting them, brutalizing them, bullying them, to get out, or will kill you, and they are being killed. Right. So these are illegal settlements that United Nations continues to condemn. But unfortunately, for some reason, the world feels powerless to do anything about it. So this is the situation right now in Palestine. And I believe, as a student of history, that this cannot go on

forever. As I said earlier, oppression, tyranny, injustice will not last, it will crumble, it has the potential to self destruct. So I think the State of Israel will eventually cause its own collapse because of the intense level of injustice and oppression it's inflicting on the Palestinian people. And eventually, this cannot go on eventually, I believe noble moral

citizens of Israel were not Zionist, they don't agree with Zionism, they will rise and they will change things. Inshallah. So we cover quite a lot of history very briefly. And that's just the

beginning of what we can talk about for hours in relation to the history of all this.

Just bring the podcast to a close, just with what you were saying about the importance of compassion, and the fact that this kind of oppression, self destructs, it's going to break break apart. I don't want I don't mean to interrupt you, but there's some something very important I want to raise here. Piers Morgan lately has been asking this question from a question from a lot of his,

from a lot, a lot of his guests that how does Israel face this?

You know, how does Israel resolve this problem? There's a conflict. Israelis are being attacked, rockets are coming into Tel Aviv and Israeli cities. And how do the Israelis respond to this? If they if they don't bomb Gaza? If they don't bomb hospitals, and densely populated areas and kill civilians and children, women and Hamas fighters, how does Israel respond? I would say, firstly, start by not taking any more land from the Palestinians. Okay, stop the illegal settlements, number one, and give back the land that was taken since 1967. Okay, from the Palestinians, this would be a good start, give back that land, which is a decent thing to do, the stolen land has to be given back

then

start a process of reparations, all those Palestinians were killed, brutalized, and the children are still refugees in their own territory, start working on their education, their well being, start paying them handsomely.

A compensation for all the crimes that have been committed against them for the last seven years, okay, and maybe build them universities, colleges, and, and put up and put up a compassionate face, put up a compassionate, you know, solution. And if you can't do that, and I don't think they will do it, because the ideology of Zionism by default is so evil. It's so hateful, that this is not possible. This would have been done long time ago, I'm sure there are Israeli intellectuals who are not Zinus, who are compassionate and moral people, they have already advised the government, why are you killing the Palestinian people, you're taking the land, you're brutalizing them, you're putting

them in concentration camps, like rasa, and you're limiting the freedom and you want them to just sit there and watch and die. Why don't you try to change the situation and be compassionate towards them. Be merciful towards them, help them out, build universities, build, build hospitals, give them opportunities, tell them look, we are here, for your for your betterment. We are here for your good. Even if you don't mean it, at least try to convince the right step. But none of that is happening. And I don't think it's going to happen. Because

with all the knowledge and all the technology and all the education and all the sophistication and all the scientific advancement of the State of Israel, if they still haven't got this point, right. Obviously, they're a bunch of fools. Yeah. I think recently and we're coming to a close now Insha Allah, with the media and the recent platforming of Palestinian voices on Western media on these different channels. I think there's starting to be a shift in public perception of this so called conflict. And I think that

It's very powerful. It's something we hope as Muslims and as decent citizens of, of the world, that when the Jews were being persecuted in history, and the Holocaust when that was going on, we hoped that we would stand up for the Jewish population and campaign against this kind of oppression. Because if today it's a particular population tomorrow it's going to be you. If today it's you tomorrow it's going to be different populations so this oppression is gonna continue. So it's up to us as Muslims specifically but as decent human beings to stand up for oppression wherever it is, and we hope that this stand up to a person stand up

Stand up to a patient and we hope that this is the beginning of more conversations and inshallah the stimulated some, some minds to think more deeply about what's going on in the world. And what we can all do to help ease the suffering of people all around the world. Perhaps.

We'll end there insha Allah Dracula her started known for being a part of the conversation. And inshallah we'll have you back on the Isley Brothers podcast ratio in

cinematic market to labor market and we'll see you back for another podcast very soon. Like I said, I'm Alec Montilla.