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Depression, Mental illness and Possession
Channel: Abu Eesa Niamatullah
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Episode Transcript ©
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Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim
brothers and sisters stubbornly comer to Bible, Ricardo.
Welcome to this PT seminar tonight on the topic of depression, mental illness and possession and the relationship between them as understood by the olema. A couple of things of order before we start, first of all, as usual mobile phones, please if you could switch them off, so it doesn't disturb the speakers. And secondly, to try and keep things running tonight if it's possible for you to think and to write down your questions, while the talks are going on. So we can collect them immediately after the talks are finished, just to keep the continuity, if possible, please, and they'll be people that will come and take and pick up the questions from you as certainly at the end of the talks. Okay,
we're very fortunate, in fact, blessed to be joined by respective panel today. First of all, Shekhar lab is originally from Iraq is now a resident in Leeds, and is a specialist on the issue of Rukia and gin. Of course, we have our respect to the startup Elisa today as well who will be speaking and then at the end doltish is are the main who is a consultant psychiatrist at Trafford General Hospital, right here in Manchester. And so without further ado, please I will pass it on to Mr.
Smith Armando Rahim, Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen
wa sallahu wa sallim ala Nabi al Karim
Nabina Mohammed wala le he was happy as marine.
My dear brothers and sisters, today's seminar in sha Allah
is dealing with something which is a human problem. It's difficult actually, when trying to address this issue to say, mental illness, depression, the opposition, the Islamic viewpoint, it's almost like it's like an arrogance almost that only Islam or Islamic position should be recognized. Of course, this is a human problem. This is a
generic problem best probably the best word to to to understand, can afflict all mental illness afflicts Muslims and non Muslims. The issue of possession as well, of course, is not just restricted to Muslims. So this is something which the entire world's cultures and religions and nations have an understanding of and have a position of the focus, I think, today,
or our seminar will be the Muslim community's perception of the problem. We want to try and have a look at how prevalent is this issue amongst us? And it's not just one issue is it we're talking about depression, which is something that we know from our communities is, is rife, unfortunately, and mental illness, we will be dealing with that as well. And recognizing that mental illness not only encompasses quite a large scope of problems, but let's just say for the sake of argument, for this point, something more serious than just being in a state of depression. And that's what Dr. Shahzad will, no doubt touch on. And the conventional approach to that, I think one of the very
important things that we'll recognize throughout this seminar and the reason I mentioned it, is because a lot of people Muslims practicing.
And I've heard this many times they said How is it possible someone can be depressed? How can someone actually be depressed as a Muslim when a Lost Planet Allah has made him Muslim and as parents, Allah has given him the Quran, Allah, Allah has said that this world is meant to be something basic and not meant to be a home of delights, and, and sheer happiness, whatever. But that's what the accurate, right and that's an argument that we used to hear and still here even and it's a very simplistic understanding, because it almost seems to imply that
that there is no such thing as a pre depression. And it it's almost denies the fact and it is a fact that we have disease that people become ill. And illness is very interesting. From the standpoint of view we have
what we can we can divide it into maybe three main categories that are either better than the sicknesses or the diseases of the body, which we traditionally go to. tabibian a doctor right, who will deal with it in a conventional way. So if someone has a headache, give them some paracetamol, someone
needs someone's eye is is now
has a major problem. It needs to be taken out for example, so
There is a conventional approach to it. So we will go to the doctor's for that. And then we have until you can say these are the physical illnesses of the body, right? arthritis, pain, ulceration, heart problems, whatever. This is called like conventional physical. And then you could say that we have the metaphysical, the extra ordinary, right which for the sake of argument, we'll talk about the problems that are caused by, by jinn, the possession of people by jinn, and being afflicted by by the Cofer and the evil of black magic, and being afflicted by the eye, Lorraine, and this is where she will elaborate and give some examples of what exactly that is, and it's matam in the
community, its status in the community and how we react to it and so on.
Now, who deals with that but Araki Alright, Araki is the one who is you can see there's no real translation for that the faith healer maybe you can call it the Muslim who uses something other than conventional medication, he uses what's called Rokia. Now, the the field of Rokia can be also divided almost into two parts because a Rokia or what's the therapy such as, for example, shopstyle, who is a very accomplished arati. Right? I don't mean heirarchy. By the way, just in case you're thinking, I mean, Rocky,
this is something where for example, and he will elaborate how we will expel Jin from the body and the different techniques. Now, this is very extraordinary from the from the those things which have don't seem to have any kind of conventional basis. But then you have this Rokia, the second half of Rokia, which is used in a conventional sense, we were just discussing earlier on, the chef was utilizing hijama, which is copying, right, which is something very much respected in Islam at something which is known before Islam as well, and is not traditionally seen as conventional medication. But the rocky The one who is a Muslim and versed in this was sometimes used that in a
conventional problem. And he was talking about some arthritic pain and some swelling. And and it was very successfully used for a person who for a year had been trying to use conventional medication, gone through the the painkillers, the steroids, the and so on, and it had no effects. But with a small course of copying, it cured him completely. And this is something that we believe in Rokia is something which was established not only at some of the profits of lies alum, and he concurred to it, but the companions themselves were people who actually use that. And so the hierarchy shouldn't just be seen as dealing with the, the weird and wonderful, right are the mysterious, but rather
using some of these methods in conventional problems as well. Alright, so his role is, is quite wide. But here's the important point, there is a and this is what the seminar hopes to address, there's a fine line, then, where a possession problem or a mental problem then kind of exists between these two categories? Is it the realm of the therapy, the doctor? Is it a physical condition of the body? Or is it something which no the rottie should deal with as a possessive issue, that this is not a mental problem. But this is something that's been caused by a jinn or by something else that needs to be dealt with in a more holistic fashion. And this is what we want to try and
look at. And you need to recognize that some of the scholars before used to understand physical illness as those things which we have been involved in intrinsically, right, ie physical illness is not something which can just occur by someone else putting upon you, but rather, is due to your own indulgence, or your own kind of mistakes and so on. In fact, they said, and I say they said, because it's not very authentic, the story, but they said that the great rule of helpers, gifted to the purpose of life seldom a physician, you know, like, that's what the Kings used to do to each other is to give each other gifts and, you know, every king and mighty king would have a personal
physician. And when, when, when, when he was bought to the purpose of life, it was said that he said salicylate that we don't need doctors, we don't eat that much. Right. So it's a, it's an interesting statement. And if it's if it's authentic, because it suggests that the doctors deal with those things that we are mostly to, you know, are the root cause of, and we know, we know that some of the illnesses that we are using today, facing today are because of our intake of food and pollution and genetic mutations because of pollution and the drugs that we use which are causing mutation, and so on and so on. So and and we're finding new evidences and links to prove that everyday so there does
seem to be some personal negligence which is involved. But when it comes down to Rukia, we know then that the scholars sometimes they deal with gin in a very kind of holistic fashion, but then they will sometimes for example, a person has a pain. They will use Rokia, we know that the
companions of the Prophet sallallahu sallam, they sometimes took the ayah, Allah privatizers wouldn't necessarily mean Quran Maharshi found what a little more meaning. And we revealed from the Quran, that what is a healing a cure and a mercy for the believers. And what they would do is understand that I literally, and they would wash off the ink from the pages of the muscle and drink it, because they used to believe that this is something which can physically give some kind of shift. So you can see then that the lines are blurring between the conventional application to pain, by a rocky and rocky sometimes using
the Quran in a more more traditional sense, which will be elaborated for those things with agenda. And then we move on to the last category of illness which we're not going to cover today. But I want to emphasize, because it is the most serious illness, unnecessary is the illness of the heart, okay, the cobia is that which is the most important to deal with, and the sickness of the heart leads to an absolute disaster in this life and in the Hereafter, the sicknesses of the heart when it becomes black and it becomes non responsive to the light of Islam to the light of justice. And it starts to become covered with greed and envy and lust and and jealousy and all these kinds of things that we
suffer from so much. Then this can reach a state where it will destroy a person is Ibrahim alayhis salaam said in his what are the Xin zini Yama yerba zone and do not disgrace me that the day that everything will be will be resurrected, jambalaya And Pharaoh melon will happen on that day in which that no money and no sons are going to allow anyone what is except for that person. 11 Attila the Calvin said him except for that person who comes to Allah with a sound heart with a good heart, a healthy heart. So this is something which the prophets emphasize that the real success in this dunya and Hereafter is to look after the heart and who is a doctor of the heart, but the island, the
scholar and he is the one who through his teachings and through his explanation of the words of the prophet of Islam, and there was of a loss of power to Allah really bring out the Shiva what I met only more meaning from the Quran. So we need to understand that disease is something very, very real, that in Islam, it exists. It is something that has always been referred to in our history. For example, we know to go to mental illness, we sometimes called a person was known even in our cultural kind of Asian culture, we call someone who's crazy original. And the word Majnoon itself is an interesting word. It comes from the Arabic word Jen, Jenna. And if we said, gender, who it means
that in the original literal sense, it means that he concealed something that he covered something. And it refers to for example, when we said that gender and who that the light was taken away, it became dark upon a person and this word leads to the idea of jinn from the same root because they are concealed from us, we can't see them, we can't make them out, we don't know where they are, unless they choose to. And if you look at some of the definitions that the earlier LML used to give for the jinn, they would say, consumed from the eye from the third creation, and from humans and angels, the third creation, the jinn that can take shape and body if they wish. So that was what
they defined them from. And Majnoon in Arabic means the person who has been afflicted by the jinn, right possessed by by Biogen. But then we recognize that although that means therefore, something that needs to be dealt with by someone who knows how to exercise the jinn, we also recognize that the word Majnoon also has a conventional understanding that it just means mentally mad or insane, or corrupt of mind. And we have words in the Arabic which, for example, karratha means that mental kind of capacity has been corrupted, and so on. So we have words that are synonyms of of Majnoon.
You know, and I think this,
these words, and the way that we use them today, lead us to become confused. And it's interesting because the word genon means confusion. And we I think, are in Japan, in a general sense, anyway. And they refer to Japan as the very, very dark part of the night, where you can't see anything and you are not in control, and you become confused. So I think we're very much in this kind of mode when it comes to the differentiations. And trying to understand when it's something that we can deal with medication and when we have to pass it on. So my role was just that to introduce the topic to make everyone understand that, yes, in our communities, we have a variety of problems when it comes
to the, to the mental capacity. We're talking about being possessed by Gene and bye bye and being afflicted by evil, black magic and the aim and something which is how it is true, however incredible it sounds, and we will, we'll hear more about it and we believe in it and we
We ask Allah subhanaw taala for his alpha from A to seek refuge with him from it because it's real and it can destroy and we also here establishing that there are real conventional problems that medication can help in and this is something which is not against the Sunnah or or in any other way unrealistic. So with that, I think that's enough on that we will deal with the rest of the issues in question answers for myself, but I'll pass over to co pilot