Channel: AbdelRahman Murphy
Series: AbdelRahman Murphy - The Hangout
Talking about Holidays with your families, how to navigate the in-law relationships.
A New Podcast series where Shaykh Abdul Nasir Jangda and Ustadh Abdul Rahman Murphy hangout and talk about issues relevant to the community as well as some insights into who they are and their own personal journeys in Islam.
© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.
Welcome to today's episode, I'm joined by the permanent guest, shareholder Nasir Jenga. I'm eating nachos. Everybody's eating nachos everybody. Shout out to elpa Conte and Irving Texas solid for the nachos Irving is you know when I told chef that we're getting a got him some lunch from Irving I asked him if it had chocolate masala and because he because everything in Irving is basically had their body. And so he thought that the nachos were gonna be like nihari nachos, which actually sounds amazing. It really. But yeah, so if you hear someone chomping away It's not me, but
well how are you? I'm doing fantastic. Are you doing fantastic cuz you're eating nachos? Yeah, actually. That's what makes it so fantastic. I'm actually really tired. sleep deprived. been following the news really worried about Trump appointing basically shouting and gin to his like cabinet. Yeah. But
um, de la meeting nachos right now. And so life is pretty good right now. Okay, we're going to talk about that a little bit. The nachos? No, we're gonna talk a little bit about the political side of things, especially with the holidays coming up Thanksgiving holidays, lots of conversation with families bound to turn to politics. And so how do we manage that? But before we get to today's conversation, shaky, we're sharing with me this bit from the cold air the Late Night with a laugh. So set it up for us. What's he talking about here? He's just talking about actually, it's politically related. One of the big stories that's got gotten out after the elections over is half
of the adults, half of the adults in the educated world in America, get their news from Facebook. And apparently there's all these fake stories on Facebook. Like there was some ridiculous story about the FBI agent that was involved in investigating Hillary Clinton's emails was found dead in his home and was it murder? Was it suicide and it was completely false story and it was shared over a million times.
So this stuff has really gotten out that this is just how stupid we are. And that's why Donald Trump is president and Rudy Giuliani is like the mom of your local machine now. So that's, so this is why this is happening. So Steven Cole bear, who's been there's been there's been pretty solid. I've really enjoyed him over the years. So he had a really funny bit about that. So what did he what's? What's he talking about the bit, he just talking about? Where these fake stories on Facebook they come from? So they're manufacturers like a factory base. Exactly. So
now, Facebook CEO and Jesse Eisenberg impersonator, Mark Zuckerberg
has responded to the controversy saying to think Facebook influenced the election anyway, is a pretty crazy idea. And he knows it's crazy cuz he read it on Facebook. So just where are these stories coming from? It turns out that 100 different sites came from teenagers in one small Macedonian town who are looking to make money online and found that the best way to generate shares on Facebook is to publish sensationalist and often false content that caters to Trump supporters. Which brings me to my new segment. Hey, Macedonian tea.
Hey, hey, hey, Macedonian teens.
to just do normal teenager stuff, like put em at the mailbox.
Shake, I walked. I walked into column today into our studio here in studio, column C, and shakes just like little this phone. He's like, I know that you're running late. I know. You have to go to Spain tomorrow, and you have all these things. But you have to watch this. And actually, it was great and not just stops, everything was, hey, Macedonian days.
They have the flag underneath. It's good. You should check out the clip. It's really funny, refreshing and also unfortunate that comics have to be the voice of reason. So djegal landscape. So I believe it was Shambo talked about this a few years ago, where he kind of talked about the idea of comedy and jokesters. They were like, core gestures. Yeah, you know, and now they are basically some of the most intelligent, sensible, you know, voices in our country right now. Yeah. Whether it be john stewart or Stephen Colbert or john oliver or whoever, whoever it's really at GE and john oliver actually is like through his mini little almost like satirical humorous campaigns actually affecting
a lot of change huge members one where he bought like some student loan debt. Yeah, and paid it off or something like that. So actually incredible, unfortunate sad, sad.
The Times. Yeah, it is what it is.
So, we are now one week removed Oh to the day, actually, you know, when we get it's about Wednesday from the election results where the president elect of this country now Donald Trump
won the election. He won the electoral vote, and has now been sort of alluding to appointing different members of the staff of his office, his cabinet. He's been alluding in the the media has been reporting that he's going to be pointing or appointing to some pretty problematic people. Yeah. You have.
He's his chief strategist. Yeah. Who's Steve Bannon, for those of you don't know, is the the leader of what's become a really problematic news outlet called Breitbart. It's basically the pulpit or the member for this group known as the alt right. So if you take like extreme extreme bigotry, extreme white supremacy, white supremacy, extreme white nationalism, and you multiply it times a million you get the alt right. And so that's Steve Bannon for you in a nutshell basically actually believes actually believe this is not a myth. That because he's white, his jeans are better than anybody else. Like his blue jeans like denim jeans. Yeah, he wears red far though. Yeah.
Rest in peace. Oh, he's not dead. Sorry. Breath are still alive. But yeah, so his genetics, okay, so his, his genetic makeup is better, which is obviously an incredibly stupid as bigoted, stupid, problematic, anti Islamic anti human sentiment. So that's one then you got Rudy Giuliani, who is actually a crazy person, God, Lee, and I don't mean that derogatorily. I'm just saying literally, I think he need he seems unstable. He's very unstable. And the most dangerous kind of unstable is when a person does not recognize that they need help. And they are, I mean, he just the way he talks, the way he reacts the way he thinks I'm genuinely concerned about his family, and those close to him.
But that's just the world that we live in our state. He's gonna be Secretary of State.
What an interesting replacement for Hillary Clinton. Yeah, very interesting. And then you got a bunch of others, you know, you have a lot of local representatives who are very much against banning Sharia law and making immigration difficult and deporting people, hardworking American immigrants, and etc. So I don't want to really focus on the political side of things, because I think we just need a break. I think everyone needs a break from politics. I think, you know, we're having we had some people over the other night, and we basically just made the rule, you know, no, we're not going to talk about it. Like we're going to talk about other things. And we ended up having a great time
because we didn't talk about politics. So I don't want to talk about politics per se, but oftentimes in social gatherings, especially with family politics does become a topic of conversation. Yeah, one week from today. We're heading to Thanksgiving break you got any break? I do. Actually, I'm gonna be going on a family vacation. Oh, nice. Yeah. Where to Turkey to Turkey. No, I'm gonna I'm gonna have turkey in Turkey. No, I'm I'm actually going to Aruba. Aruba. Yeah, what's going on in Aruba? There it's just an island and it's the ocean and I'm just gonna go hang out there for a week to sit on the beach for a while. That's it? I mean, this is after like months of coming into Colombia three days
six days a week and working everyday nonstop. So it's good it's good to go r&r yeah gonna take you know me my wife and the kids are gonna go out there and just have fun in general. Okay, so y'all gonna talk about politics? No, we're not but for most people Thanksgiving break instead of running away to an island like you are shot love inshallah myself Mashallah. Mashallah.
Instead of doing that most people get together with their family, meaning their extended family so y'all are kind of your family lives here. So you see each other a lot. Yeah, so you guys are gonna take a break but most people like for example, my in laws are coming that weekend I'll be working while you're vacationing. I'll be vain. You're welcome. Column Spain. Yeah, my boss here. Now I'm gonna go on vacation. You go take a group of 45 people to Spain, okay. No, I'm obviously gonna be enjoying it. But it's working on the less but it's him that a lot of hard work but enjoyable work. So we'll be there for the actual day Thanksgiving. I'll come back Friday. And my in laws are going
to be in town. And as we just you know, referenced earlier in the podcast episode. The conversation will inevitably geared towards politics and other things. And these are my in laws. These are people that are coming in. And I wanted to kind of focus today's episode and you're not going to be able to make a rule. They're not going to be able to tell your father in law that hey, listen, new rule my house. Nobody talks about Donald Trump here. He's gonna be like, how about I take you in the backyard and I beat you
That image is hilarious because I'm like, really big. Okay.
So I don't think that's how it would go exactly. But again, you're really giving me insight into what your kids visual, like, yeah, I'm excited. Listen, just listen, I understand, even verbally, we should be careful. But I feel I got two daughters, and I feel like threatening the lives of, you know, their husbands and terrifying them, I think is a good thing. They're gonna have a rifle in the umbrella all the time. Okay, I'm just gonna have a rifle next to the chair that I sit on all the time when they come over a rocking chair on the front porch. Yeah, that's it, and they'll just be a rifle there. And they're like, why don't you put that away? And it's like, I don't know, you're just
gonna be like, you like that guy from Grand Torino, Clint Eastwood, Clint Eastwood. So so the question that I wanted to talk about today, or the topic that I think would be really relevant, especially preparing people, for the holidays, spending time with extended family, people, they don't see very often
that one of those subgroups are the in laws. So we kind of made reference to my father in law, and then how you're going to be and the reason why those jokes tend to be a little bit darker is because of the because of the culture of how we see in laws. Yeah. You know, laws. Exactly. Right. In law. You remember, you had a great line in line interference. Yeah, like pass interference, interference. 10 yards per step. So you have this, you have this, this concept in our culture of in laws are sort of like the Bringers of sadness. Yeah, like, what have you brought? What's your house warming gift? Or, like, you know, something sad? I don't know, like a popsicle that melted or any milk with no
cereal? like something was really sad. Yeah. Um, so I thought we would spend some time today just have a brief conversation about that, and kind of unpackage that a little bit. A lot of young people come to us and seek advice, whether they are currently married or not married. regarding their in laws. Yeah. So I figured we'd start there logically progressing through I mean, even if, even if somebody's not married yet. I mean, obviously, they come from a home, they have a family. And so they witnessed, you know, just the in law dynamic with in regards to their own parents, and their grandparents. And it's very actually for children, when there's kind of a tense in law situation
involving their parents for kids. It's, it's very confusing, and it's very troubling. And it's very unnerving.
they're supposed to love their in laws, or they're supposed to love grandma. Yeah. Yeah. So even though mom is basically saying, like, how her mother in law is terrible, and she makes her miserable, and she tries to make her life difficult. But this kid is like Grandma, yes. And Mark. So but she's Grandma, but I'm supposed to not like Grandma, or you don't like grandma or grandma doesn't like you. And it's just very confusing. Yeah. So this is, you know, this is inevitably going to happen, not only Thanksgiving break, but also the winter holidays coming up. Yeah, people are going to, you know, bump into each other cross paths. So let's go ahead and just process I guess,
through this. And, yeah, question number one that we get from a lot of people is I'm not yet married.
The first thing I guess, that people think about is how do I even anticipate? What do I look for? Like, what are the things that I should look for in my in laws? Because you know, there is this concept of when you get married, you're not just marrying a person. You're marrying their family, which I disagree with? I don't think you're marrying their family. I think you're marrying a person who belongs to a family. Yeah, you're marrying into their family. Yeah. And you might, you know, I don't think you necessarily become a daughter or a son. But you become their son's spouse. Right? So see, the first thing here is that we just have to separate between a lot of cultural rhetoric. And,
you know, I don't actually add don't completely, it's okay, slogans are just really weird. And they're very problematic. So sloganeering is a huge problem in our community. So when people say like, Oh, you know, follow a song, not culture. It's like, Okay, I understand where you're coming from when you're saying that you're trying to discard the problematic parts of culture. And I'm with you, 100%. But also saying that Islam has no Muslims don't have culture, we just have the Sunda that's also problematic because you just said that we're not human beings. Yeah. We're not social creatures, every organization, every group, every gathering collective of human beings, do have a
culture. And so a lot of saying that always some doesn't have any culture is part of also what got us in a lot of trouble as well, where we just denied our identity in such key parts of our identity as American Muslims for so long. Yeah.
We sort of floated in this weird law. Exactly.
A system of nothingness of nothingness. Yeah, we weren't, we weren't Pakistani or Egypt or Saudi or whatever warned American and it which is weird no man's land. So
what what sloganeering is really problematic and that's why talking about culture in Islam becomes so difficult. But just for the for the sake of this particular discussion we do have to kind of separate between cultural rhetoric. And then what actually is Islam dictates in regards to this particular issue of in laws and their relationship. So a lot of this whole thing about like, Oh, you know, when you marry into a family, you know, you're their son or your their daughter just like their son or just like their daughter. No, you're not because they didn't know you six months ago. Yeah. They thought it was quick. It was a quick wedding. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, okay, a year
ago, they didn't know you. I mean, think about it, particularly if you meet somebody at school, and you're trying to keep him mostly How long? And you're, you gotta got to know that person for a couple of months. By the way, once mostly Hello, trademark.
Trademark, Sheldon. I just gave you a T shirt idea of loving it. Stop some millennials gonna put it together on Etsy for $47 sold out. So mostly Hello, what are you trying to say, you pervert. So you're trying to keep it as legit as possible. And so you got to know the person for a few months, maybe, you know, a semester, maybe two semesters, and you told your family, there was no real obstacle to it. Both of y'all were graduating next semester. So you went ahead and you got married, right? So six months, eight months, a year, whatever. But my point is just simply to just suggest the idea that you're just like my son now. Or my daughter now it's like no, because first of all,
you and your wife like or the in laws, y'all gave birth to your son to your daughter, to your kids, you raised them you've known them the entire lives
their entire lives, and just met this person not too long ago. So it just it's just an illogical statement to begin with. I think what it what it's trying to communicate something but I think what oftentimes what happens with slogans and I like the way that you put that slogans are trying to reduce very, very complex and very nuanced ideas into a small sentence Make America Great Again, is the one of the greatest slogans because everyone has a different definition of what great is. Yeah, so they fit into this funnel. Anyways, we're not talking politics. I told you this. False. Yeah, because you'd be in jail.
Okay, let's stop. All right, let's regroup. Let's behave, behave, get off my lawn. Stop being a nasty person. So
Okay, so back to the point, which is that you know, this slogan of your, your, my daughter, you're my son that the in laws might be saying to their, their daughter or son in law, it's coming from a place of love, it's coming from place of affection. However, sometimes in our community, we have a problem with turning things literal. becomes goes from figurative to literal. And what ends up happening is a person can be disappointed or upset, yes, because expectations are based off of those things. So for example, if I go to my mother in law, and I say, I'm moved because she's Bengali, right shots, my bang goes, I say, I'm, I'm just like your son.
Obviously, I'm going to do everything in my power to serve my wife's family, be with them, etc. But there are simply some things that I may not be able to do as her son in law. And some, some of them are pretty much very Islamic practical things, some areas, some conversations that I actually should stay away from, because they're very intimate family conversations. And if she interprets it literally or if I interpret it literally, I could end up getting her feelings hurt or my feelings hurt seeing the other way around. If one of the in laws tells their new daughter in law, you're just like my daughter. Yeah. And then they notice that they bought their own daughter, their real actual
biological daughter a car. And they're like, wait a minute, why do they keep buying her things? No, by me, well, you're not their actual daughter, right? You're not actually a financial responsibility for them. And so there's a dynamic All right, the slogan hurts expectations. Good. I go to my parents house.
I walk into the house.
I lay down on the couch. And I go, mom, the meatloaf. I want food. Yeah. Right. And she's just and you know, me and my mom. Were really, it's just fun. It's a lot of fun. I'm the oldest, I'm the first child. So it's a lot of fun. So she'll be playful. She'd be like, yeah, you can get up and get it yourself and I'll be like, food, I'll just keep on screaming in response to everything. She telling me adventures you you know, get me some food out and I'll get up and go sit with her and eat food and talk to her and stuff like that.
Now imagine me walking into my mother in law's house. Yeah, laying down on the couch and screaming food.
Call my wife and be like your husband has gone insane. Yeah, no, there's
there's always a level of formality. Yeah, that will always be there. Even if it's 1%. Sure, even if but with your own family, it's obviously going to be keeping it 100 100 exactly the MDR clearly pronounced one Listen, children pronounce your DS and pronounce your rs 100. Read. don't pronounce the D's and R's. How would you ever become a doctor?
No DS no Rs? No, doctor. That's it. That's right. 100 is the enemy of all uncle's Nazis out there? Okay, so that's one question that we get very frequently. And I think that the real, the real response will be when you're looking for that relationship. Make sure you don't set your expectations to be literally this person's child unrealistic. And you may also have to watch your tongue. You know, there's always those interests on my mom. Still. And again, it's kind of playful, because obviously, I'm an old man now, but
she'll still smack me upside the head. Yeah. She's like that. Oh, yeah. So I'm just kind of like, I'm like, Hey, I was like, you know. So, the other day, I was like, eating something at her house. And I was like, Did somebody challenge you to cook this while you were blindfolded? And she was like, what does that mean? I was like, I was like, cuz it doesn't taste that great. And she's reached across and just whap on the head. Right. And, and I enjoyed it. It's just my way of playing around with her. And
you know, my, my, I wouldn't call it okay. I might be the one kind of being like, what you said, I was like your son, why are you like, treating me differently? If my mother in law reached out and smacked me upside the head? I don't know if I'd ever speak to her again.
I wouldn't know how to process a little bit different. It's a little bit different. And I think, you know, for example, like, you can make fun of your brother in ways that I can absolutely even though you I might say the exact same thing. Hmm. It's different. He's your brother. Yes. Right. Same with even your wife. Yes. And a lot of fights between couples. And being because one of the spouses so the husband or the wife will say about their in laws, things that they've heard their spouse say about their own parents, but you can't repeat that. Yeah. Remember you were saying about your mom and how annoying she is? She'll
Listen, listen, basically, just listen
to and enter your casket. At that moment. Listen, brothers.
I know you've done it. Yeah, cuz you're a dummy. Yeah. And if you did it, whatever happened to you afterwards? You completely deserved it. Look at your hands. See that red paint? Guilty. You completely disarmed red handed, whatever happened to you when you said to your wife? Yeah, remember, you were saying how annoying Your mom is? You just die? Or if the brother is talking about how he's like, Wait, am I in heaven? Yeah, exactly. Or if the brothers talking about how useless he feels maybe like one of his siblings is, it's not your place, sisters to speak about how, for example, like, Oh, you said that so I can say it too. There's there is a little bit of a difference there
between the two. So going back now getting on track before marriage, when people are sort of like in that realm of looking and sort of like proposing and courting and rituals and all that kind of stuff. What are some things that are normal? What are some things that are normal dynamics, and that search in that relationship? So girls, you know, there's a girl and a guy that are being proposed to one another? They get to know each other they you know, keeping it mostly Hello, mostly trademark Sheldon monster Jenga. And, you know, they might go bowling with their families or something. Just keep it really, you know, social 100 What are not they're wrong. Sorry. Sorry. I'm trying you're
still pretty woke today, though. So they go out and they'll say they go to dinner. There's like a nice family dinner.
What are some things that are overreactions? And what are some legitimate concerns that a person should have and maybe you can share some stories, some anonymous stories, okay, that's like a clock, a clock character, character character, like paying a lot of attention to how this prospective spouse of yours interacts with their family members. Particularly, I mean, take into consideration if they are being if the maybe the family is being very abusive and disrespectful. And,
or maybe the prospective spouse, the potential spouse, the person you're interested in, is being disrespectful and rude and arrogant,
and inconsiderate towards their own family. Keep in mind, y'all are out on this, you know, exploratory kind of meeting of the families type situation. Everyone knows this is when you are supposed to be on your best behavior. Yeah. Now, think about
What that means when somebody acts like that.
And that's their best behavior. It's It's human nature. Like, it might be like, well, I'm just, I'm just being who I am. It's like no, everybody can is concerned about first impression. Absolutely every single person. And if they're being that way at that time, I remember just one brother, I knew really well, he called me. And he was kind of like,
I have a question. I went with my sister, our family, for my sister, you know, to meet this family. And she's not she knew the guy and interested and, you know, got the families involved. So we went over to their place. And we met with them. And I want to ask you something happened. The guy was being like, really abrasive and mean and rude towards like, his mother in law, and his sister, a toad towards his mother and his sister. And I just, I found it really strange. So I wanted to get your input on that. I was like input about what you need to just like, just be like, thanks. But no, thanks. Yeah. Right, you need to just end that situation quickly. And immediately, if he's that
disrespectful towards his own mother, and they know they're supposed to be on their best behavior than what hardware Do you think that's going to lead to? So that's just one example. But the point is, mainly, that you're really looking for a lot of o'clock, you're looking for decent? What about your in laws? So like the guy's parents? Like, you're just keeping an eye out for their o'clock? Yeah, of course, the girl's parents in this case, either way, either way, you're just looking at the clock, meaning how do they speak to one another? And how do they speak to other people hold the door open, you know, say, thank you. Exactly. Are they being condescending? Are they being rude? Are they
being obnoxious? If they can't, that's my point. If somebody can't behave, you know, or that's their definition of good their best behavior, their good behavior, this does not look like a good situation. Now, what are some overreactions? So we have on one side, the you know, keeping an eye out for people's character. But what are some things that you've seen, or you've heard people come to you and say, Man, I had this proposal dinner the other night, or I met these family, and they just did this and I knew, and you're just like, in your head, you're kind of like, it's a little bit of overreaction. Yeah. Any situations, any things that are maybe, I think determining a lot about a
person's aside from of course, blatant violations, like somebody's just sitting there, and just, you know, starts drinking a beer at the dinner table. Right? That's different, but otherwise judgments in terms of a person's, you know, spirituality. I've seen tons of overreactions in that department. Can you explain, can you like that a little bit? Yeah. So it's kind of like, there'll be, you know, a conversation will be going on, and maybe some conversation will come up about some social issue, or this and that, and they'll share some thoughts or some opinions, and they'll kind of be like, you know, maybe it'll come up about, you know, should women have equal pay or something, I'll be able to
work. Yeah. And something will come up maybe about
just, you know,
just right now, what we're seeing, you know, in terms of civil rights, and just public safety, and people protecting people from hatred and hate speech, and they'll be like, you know, it's really important, whether it be we're talking about women or Latinos, or blacks or Muslims or, you know, LGBT community members, like gay people. And immediately, like this whole assessment will occur about the spirituality and the religiousness or lack thereof of this person. Oh, you support gay people? Yeah, like, Oh, they must not be religious at all. And that tells me I don't even know if they pray. You know, it's like, what what were How did we just get Horsell identifies? Like, as a
Democrat? Yeah, exactly. For gay people. Yeah. You know. So I see a lot of just just, you know, drastic over reactions, and assumptions being made about people's spirituality. Culture is another one. Just making all types of assumptions about what kind of culture they have, or what kind of culture they come from, what the culture of their home or their family and this is, this is becoming increasingly important, because oftentimes you have, you know, to give a sports reference, you have like a fumble here a fumble of cultural languages. Yeah. So in, for example, my parents, my mother's Egyptian, my father is a, you know, white, Irish American convert to Islam. And my dad had to sort
of like take a crash course in Egyptian culture. And there are some things in Egyptian culture that might completely contradict what he was raised with. I'll give you an example. Actually, it's really, really relevant. I was at an Islamic school, you know, teaching at one point in my life, and in the community that I was working in, and that one of the kids was just like acting a fool like hardcore, like, just ridiculous. So I pulled him out of the class and I kind of wanted to talk to him as I was speaking to him. He was from you know, the Indian society.
continent. And he wouldn't look at me. He was just looked down. And so I was like talking to him, like trying to like, ask him what's up, remind him kind of like, you know, reprimand him a little bit. And he wouldn't look at me and according to my cultural language where my dad would raise my dad, if he was talking to you, you looked at him. Yeah. Right. Because looking at somebody, in the culture that my dad grew up in was a sign of respect. Acknowledging that I know you're talking to me. So I look at this young man, I say to him, I say, Excuse me, is there a reason you're not looking at me? And he goes, because you're because I'm in trouble. Yeah. And your your your quote,
unquote, I wasn't yelling, but he, you know, said, you're yelling at me. And I was like, oh, because in his culture, yes. When you're being yelled at you don't dare look at the person who's yelling at you. Yeah, like it's, What's the name? I was disrespectful. Yeah, I was going through in the Hadith, or I might have been the losses when he became Muslim. And he was kind of ashamed about having fought the prophets, a lot of some of the Muslims before he said, I just felt like I couldn't look up at him. Exactly, exactly. And even some of the narrations where they said, like, some of the companions never looked directly at the Prophet Muhammad.
Whereas for us in our culture in America now like looking at somebody is a sign of admiration. Yeah, you know, um, yeah, you know, you just exactly, you know, this is actually an homage, I always tell you this, that it's out of respect and out of, you know, following the example of Prophet Muhammad so sudden, when you're making the walk, you're actually supposed to look ahead, yes, and not to your left, which is the Kaaba. But for me, I struggle with that. Yeah, because I just stare at it. I'm only here for a few days, right? You just kind of want to look at it. So that's how cultural languages can become false. You know, there can be a fumble. Exactly. And even within families let's
say both of you are Pakistani or both of you are Palestinian. Both of you are African American. So there's family culture, culture, all types of weird things. Or somebody may be kind of scooped some rice or some food into their plate before so this this guy with his family's over at this girl's family's place
for marriage proposal reasons, and the guy just kind of scoops out some rice and get some food before the girls that did or before his own dad did him over the girls family's watching this and they're kind of like there's like a mark an X on the on the clipboard? It just one big x. Yeah, it's like proposal yes or no, he just they crossed box. I've seen this a lot. Yeah, I've seen sometimes. You know, because a sister didn't buy birthday gifts for her fiance's siblings. That all of a sudden now it's like a big loss by the way in between there. A sister? Okay. A woman? Yes. Did not buy birthday gifts. Got it for the male fiance. Okay. As opposed to the female fiance yet.
Okay, so the male fiance she didn't buy gifts for his siblings for their birthdays. Wow. Or no for eats or for eat? Because they had just gotten engaged. It was like very No, okay. In retrospect, maybe something good to do but not absolutely not necessary. You I don't even think they were actually properly probably. I probably wouldn't like the gift that my siblings fiance would buy. It probably just be like an ugly sweater. Yeah, knowing face. Oh, it'd be like something super nerdy and I wouldn't like it.
I want to call it a hobby fair enough. So bad
Lack of build to it. I was given I would accept it. That's very true. Interesting. I'm trying to just contrast that with the statement you just made about Faisal wherever he shot it to Faisal. So that those issues people you know, for example, the on the guy side, they really strongly overreacted to the girl the new fiance not even really like codified fiancee just kind of like they were talking. Yeah, you know, at what level now? Are you obligated to buy gifts? And so she didn't know she didn't do it, unfortunately. And guys, family overreacted. And End of story, end of story. So when you're going into this, and that's what I was gonna say, when you going into this phase. You
have these sort of these really good connections, and you have these horrible fumbles. And I think what a lot of people oftentimes end up but fumbles failing to realize, okay, I had to do it. Mark, right is I know, yeah, it's a football reference. So everybody gets your mind out the gutter. It's a football reference. You can look it up Mark Sanchez, but fumble, okay. Don't or just don't look at it. It just takes your last word for it. You have these people that basically they get really really distraught because things ended. Maybe because of this fumble. But Sheldon also you just said good for her. Good for her. So if somebody if either side. She needs to just thank Allah subhanaw taala
for protecting her if either side. Feels like the process ended because of a silly reason. Then what I'll tell you as a marriage counselor, is it deuces is that what the Yeah, deuces. Exactly. Yeah. Do
you have to chuck them Chuck? The deuces. Okay, okay. It's good to know
So, it's a great, great sign of a loss protection over you like our teacher used to kind of say that it's a reminder of how much Allah subhanaw taala loves you and how much Allah wants paid for you. I was just going over the high detail Halliburton will lead yesterday in the Sierra class. And he says llama Rodney Allahu Lama Radha be Allahu halen when God wanted good for me. This is what happened. And remember that that can we think about it that we are low on it good for you that can come either in the way of addition or subtraction. Oh, absolutely a low wanting good addition, by subtraction Exactly. A lot of wanting good for somebody can come in the form of him removing something from a
person's life. And so if you're out there, you're single you're looking, remember to keep your expectations tempered, remember that you may have cultural language differences, you may have different understandings of what is a good way of expressing gratitude and thanks, and comfort. You know, sometimes people like you said, If I'm ultra comfortable with somebody, then I may it may slip my mind to feed them first before getting food for myself. You know, it's like, for example, if someone like a good friend of mine, like Obaidullah comes over.
The host in me should know to give him food first. But as because we're close, I may forget and I may just kind of start eating right or wait till he's seated to begin eating as well. Things like that when you're closest somebody so if somebody perhaps at maybe the last, you know, proposal, dinner, spoons food for themselves first, don't read that as a sign that it's just horrible. And this person is a horrible human being. Don't overreact. However, at the other side, if you do feel like there is some maybe spiritual judgment, or some sort of weird kind of vibes or you know, even verbal abuse or emotional weirdness. And things don't go well, then Allah tada has saved you. I
mean, we didn't want to talk about this in this particular episode. But it just seems like it's right here.
Look up courtship. In the dictionary, like that is when you're courting someone. Right? Like we don't, we don't actually, but I'm just borrowing terminology kind of verbiage from our culture. They talk about wining and dining people, like a client, or a customer, or an athlete, if you're an agent or an athlete, if you're a team. And therefore courtship is in marriage as well. courtship is about putting on your best possible face your best possible character and making the best possible impression that you can write. And if somebody is being abusive during that time, somebody meaning the family can be it that way. The family, the potential spouse, even as I'm saying, We're not
talking about that right now. In terms of actual selection process, but the family and even particularly the potential spouse run for the hills and for the hills. Why do you think in laws like, why do you think in laws are known as problematic just from the get go? Like when people say the phrase in laws, they don't necessarily, they don't necessarily speak about it positively. It always has this negative connotation to it as far as I can remember, it's really funny, even the in Arabic like a positive so it kind of like we do the whole play on word like in La, la, Arabic, a positive which means relatives. If you change the leaf to an iron, I thought it means scorpions. Oh,
my God. It's really interesting, really interesting. It's cross cultural. The three Arabic nerds right now that are listening to this, right, like, that's phenomenal. Everyone else out. Everyone else is just like, What is going on? But, uh, probably the same three people that are mad that we use music for leading, that's probably it's okay. But uh, why do you think that culture exists? I don't know. It's It's okay. A few ideas, but it's very much cross cultural. So universal? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. If I mean, I just gave you the Arabic example. And it was at the time of the prophets a lot, Lisa as well. Sahaba would come to the professor, some would like family drama, in
law, drama, and all this kind of stuff. So this has been around as you know, as in law, drama is as old as marriage, the institution of marriage itself. So, I think comes from a couple of different places.
I do think that
situations where people are very in closer proximity to one another, they're more prone to it. People get in each other's way more. also understand what marriage is marriage is just this drastic, completely redefining of everything in one person's life. So somebody goes from being primarily a son to not being a husband. Hmm. And that's his primary identification. Now. He's first and foremost a husband. Yes, I understand. He was first assigned. I get all that and please, nobody right now anybody who's thinking about quoting any adjectives they'll put onto me about like, the rights of the parents. Mashallah, you're probably absolutely right, but you're actually wrong. Because the
I just don't want to be disrespectful, absolutely called the Koran and, you know, hopefully, you know, something that I don't know. So I can benefit from you and I can learn from you. I just, you know, I've been around this topic for a long time. And I've spoken to a lot of people and a lot of teachers and or LMR senior scholars on this issue, and the primary identification and the primary responsibility, because what defines us is our responsibilities, the primary responsibility of that person becomes of being a spouse being a husband being a wife, what's what's Musalia? Exactly, they're gonna be asked about responsibility. Yeah. And so when that re defining restructuring
happens, then obviously, there's a lot of,
there's a lot of turmoil, there's a lot of turbulence, there's a lot of adjustment and re kind of organizing things that's required. And that's ever easy. That's never comfortable.
That's not a lot of fun. And things happen. And people get people, people start to act out and people start to kind of lose their bearings. And that's where a lot of this drama comes from. So you just mentioned the universality of it. Is it safe to say that everybody has some degree of in law difficulty? I believe so? Or let's say has, yes, has have or will have? Absolutely. I don't think there's any exceptions. Like, I've seen some situations and hamdulillah even my own situation, as well, very good and calm and peaceful and very helpful and, etc. But, I mean, absolutely, everyone's got some thing. Everyone's gonna get offended. Oh, everyone's got their feelings hurt. Sure. So
what are some ways that we can repair relationships? Because this Thanksgiving, we started talking about the fact that this holiday season, we're going to reconnect with a lot of people that we don't see very often. Yeah. And
walking into this gathering, walking into this dinner or whatever, walking into this weekend, or the holiday weekend or any weekend, really. There's gonna be some some scabs, there's gonna be some scars, some wounds, some words that were said, Yeah, some birthdays that were ignored, or whatever it might be.
How do we, as individuals, whether you're the whether you're the mother in law, father in law, daughter in law, son in law, whoever, how do we start to repair these relationships? Or at least brother in law says, make them yeah, make them serviceable? Yeah. You know, because I think one of the most tragic things I've seen in my work as the mom and kind of like with communities is
some Holloman. I mean, we've talked, you know, I've asked for your advice on how to handle these situations before but, you know, literally, I mean, 567 years go by without one word being said, between
family, I've seen it across the board. The craziest thing I've seen the craziest thing I've seen
a daughter and her own mother, not her mother in law. Yeah. didn't talk because her husband didn't like her mom.
So she gets married, her husband says, I don't like your mom. And she, and basically, she destroyed her own relationship with her mother. Because her husband was, you know, not really understanding. And, you know, but that was absolutely mind blowing to me, like you would sacrifice. I mean, look, we all have issues with our parents in terms of growing up and fights and arguments and disciplining all that stuff. We all have those great memories.
But destroying the relationship, like ending it completely. So the point I'm trying to make is we've seen it across the board, it impacts everybody, what are some universal practical steps towards trying to repair that relationship, some things that you've seen work. So again, it comes back to the prophetic character in the flop. And one of the things that are mentioned here is that
one of the things that makes a lot of these a lot of relationships very problematic, and really kind of gets them into bad places and bad situations to begin with. And
I know it's easy to pick on the in laws.
If you're kind of the younger newlywed, it's easier to kind of blame the in laws, but really, a lot of times blame just needs to be placed where it's due where it's deserted. And the Quran talks about that the primary role of the in laws is to be Heckman, Allahu hakama mineralia. They're supposed to be wise and sage and helpful and moderate and balance and they're actually supposed to help quell disagreements between the married couple between the newlyweds not create the arguments between them. So a lot of blame does go with them where they overstep their boundaries. they impose themselves upon them. You know, the the idea about how when a man marries a woman then his parents
become her responsibility and her problem. There's that is nowhere stayed in our Dean inertia in our religion anywhere. His parents are his responsibility and his duty is his own.
obligation, and her parents are her responsibility and her obligation. So when these things are not understood, and we don't have a mature, responsible, you know sane attitudes about these types of things, then bad things happen and now, problematic dynamics sometimes are created. So now how do you repair?
The wreck? The recommendation I have is very, very simple. And that is
and I'm going to say some things kind of bluntly here. You don't let's just say okay, just kind of the role playing sense. Zaid is married to medium
zaidan Maria Mar a couple. Zaid does not like Miriam's dad.
Zaid, here's part now. Three we give mom's dad a name.
Yes. No, sir. No, no, no. Oh, hey, I'm okay, cuz I'm gonna punch him in the face.
Is there a boy school named say that? I'm talking about? No. So yeah, we'll call it millenniums dad is Ahmed. Okay. So they does not like my dad, brother, Ahmed, and they just don't see it. I die. Okay. And Dave doesn't like brother, dad, his father in law. Here's the part now. Zane doesn't have to like brother. Uh huh. He just has to respect him. Mm hmm. What does that what does that look like, by the way, but that looks like is this and this The thing I was gonna say. So he doesn't have to like him, but he has to respect them. What he basically would xav has to channel in that moment with Zane has to think to himself in that moment is Ahmed brother, Ahmed, Ahmed, uncle, whatever he
decides to call him, okay.
I just don't like him. We don't get along. We don't see eye to eye. It's not a good situation. However, Ahmed is Miriam's father, he is the father of the love of my life. He was before me the most important man in her life. He's the one who raised her. He's the one who loved her. He's the one who cared for her, bounce her honor on his knee, play with her, raised her spoiled her, you know, you know,
you know, Tony, just poured so much, you know, time and energy and effort into making her the amazing woman that she is.
I just got to respect them. And I gotta, I just have to keep in mind that if making money I'm happy is is the part of like, what it's one of the most important things to me, is making money I'm happy, then me being nice and respectful to her father, brother, Ahmed, who I would love to punch in the throat right now.
Respecting him and treating him with a modicum of respect, will make her happy, which will make me happy. And that's very, it's it's mind over matter. It's a very simple logical process. But you know, I kind of started to like uncle hood, as you were describing him, what a great dad, he was, really, he might be a great dad and make a terrible father in law. That's, that's a thing. That's possible. Of course, I think that, you know, for a lot of people, they just need to put it with that, like, want to be a terrible father in law. That's not nice. I look forward to counseling your children.
I'll start billing you now.
No, I think a lot of people need to play with that lens, which is that this is the, the parent or the mother or father of, you know, this person who's so important to me, my spouse, and it becomes a lot easier, it really does, you know, you put some sort of perspective on it.
I think one of the things respect on it got it, just don't, just don't, I am, one of the things that I'll recommend to people is that oftentimes, all of your relationships, either win or lose, basically, because of what's going on inside of you, on all of us have been able to negotiate and take care of relationships that we didn't with people that we didn't necessarily admire. Because we knew that the certain circumstances dictated that you might have a boss at work that you're not a big fan of.
But because he's your boss, or she's your boss, you are going to have to make it work, make the relationship work, you might have co workers or teammates, etc. And because of the nature of your job or your work, you're gonna have to make it work,
neighbors, things like that. It's no different with family relationships. You guys are a part of a team, you're a part of a unit. And your in laws are now a new part of that unit. And it doesn't matter what feelings you may or may not have. The circumstances dictate that you have to make it work. So what I'm trying to get at here is oftentimes we find the internal struggle of looking down on somebody or being you know, egotistical and kind of thinking that well, they should treat
Give me this way or I deserve to be treated this way. And a lot of times, you know, some people might be thinking right now about their in laws, but a lot of times youngsters, we do this to our parents, or we do this to my, I might do this to my spouse's parents, and they should, they should respect me and they should treat me a certain way, there's no doubt whatsoever that respect and love are two very, very essential foundations to a great relationship. However, that being said, it still is part of the Islamic personality, to be able to function in it in a relationship with somebody, even if they may have done you wrong a couple times. So your mother in law may have said something
that may have hurt you, your father in law may have something that may have hurt you, you're in your your son in law may have done something that may have bothered you, as the Father, it's part of the Islamic personality to be able to, number one, make an excuse for that person, try to understand where they're coming from number two, to forgive them, you know, forgive them. Number three, is to not put yourself in a position where you demand that people basically treat you like a king all the time or queen all the time. And with those with that sort of like self check. I think a lot of people will be able to and it's tough, it's easily said tough to practice. Sure. You'll be able to
really really hopefully, restructure successfully your relationship with your process them and the narration, he actually talks about waffle Amendola monk, you know, forgive overlook the person who's done wrong to you, say, Man attack, join relations with a family member who's been trying to sever relations with you,
out the man
give to somebody who's trying to deprive or take away or keep away something from you. I said, Man, as a lake, do good to somebody who's doing wrong or bad to you. And what one of my teachers used to explain it this way explaining what a flop where he said that a clock is not just simply doing good to somebody who is good to you. That's just called being like a creature. Because they said, an animal a dog, you you you put some scraps in front of a dog, it'll wag its tail and, and thank you and whimper in front of you, you know, a cat, you you give it a treat or something, it'll come and purr and like rub up against you.
So animals know how to do that. But real o'clock and character is to be able to be good to somebody who is not good to you. I mean, remember was all he talks about this all the time when he talks about? Do you only do nice things for people so that they'll return it? You know, do you only visit somebody who's sick so that when you're sick, you'll get visited. And he says basically what he meant was, it says is, that's not really a relationship, that's a business transaction. And I'll tell you something else, this is really edgy.
If that is what you do, more often than not, if again, you're fortunate and you're blessed. You know that Allah subhanaw taala has a love for you
that Allah is trying to teach you a lesson, you'll find if you're doing those for those reasons, that actually won't result in that it won't. Somebody did people nobody will come visit you when you are sick. And that's a teach you a lesson that because you're doing it for the wrong reasons. I know some Holloman I know in laws who live in the same city. And they don't invite each other to each other's homes. Because why? Because or one doesn't invite the other to the home because oh, we invited them last time and they haven't invited us back. So we're not gonna invite them anymore. Wow. Why do we Why do we spoil our generosity? Why do we do it like you're being generous? you're
hosting people, being hospitable. And being a host of your guests is one of the best things you can do as a Muslim? Why am I Why am I spoiling my generosity by predicating it upon it just seems so exhausting to live life that way? It does. Absolutely. May Allah protect us. I think that um, you know, this episode can go on forever. It's already been about almost an hour. What is one thing I want to conclude for our listeners, this is part of, by the way, a bigger series called The modern Muslim family that we're going to be doing. But we just thought that with thanksgiving coming up the holidays around the corner, people are going to be seeing a lot of family that they don't see very
often. So let's jump started with a conversation about in laws.
What's one thing that every in law should do this Thanksgiving with their in laws? So I'm a son in law. I'll give you my example. Okay, I'm a son in law. My wife's parents are coming to town. What should I do?
Just sit and have a conversation. So spend time that's it. Put the phones away. Yeah, put the phones away. Just try to remove the distractions. You know, Turkey day there's a bunch of football on and it's easy to just kind of keep the TV on and allow it to be a barrier. Oh man, you know my trick so well. We've a football in the background Exactly. But I'm just kind of put everything aside just kind of sit face to face and just try to have a meaningful conversation.
have enough is just going to be 20 minutes meaningful, straight, kind of looking straight at one another just having a direct conversation about their job, their work their family, their community, their friends. What's going on in their life? How's their health? How's their job? You know, I'm just I have another great topic. Yeah, just tell me. Tell me about your your your growing up. Oh, yeah. A lot of people love talking about that. A lot of wisdom to share. Yeah, and a lot to learn a lot of wisdom. Tell me about college. Lotta wisdom. So, you know, if you're sitting with someone who's older than you, yeah, your father in law? You can you know, a lot of people say, I don't know
what to talk to him about. Yeah, it's so difficult to speak to him. Just ask him to tell you stories. Yeah, just be like, you know, what was it like, you know, with this political situation? Now you have a lot to go off of. Yeah. Have you ever experienced anything this crazy in politics before? Yeah. Then just listen, listen for 510 minutes, it'll make them happy. You'll be happy because you're making them happy. And your spouse will be happy. Absolutely. Everyone's happy. Absolutely. And you win. So spend some quality time, what's one thing you should not do?
And it can't be the opposite of what you just said. You're like, don't spend.
What's one thing that you shouldn't do?
I'll tell you, what you should not do is retaliate. Oh, interesting. You're not going to be able to stop some people from just pushing some of your buttons, saying some things that bother you doing something that you do not like, but you cannot respond and retaliate at all. That's very difficult. Extremely. That's probably the toughest thing. Extremely especially because we we love to talk back our generation especially Yeah, or just even the passive aggressive stuff. Yeah, just kind of like, kind of just stomping over and just kind of like with a little extra oomph, passing the gravy. Yeah. Or, you know, they put the cup down the coffee thing down on the coffee table. And you've got
coasters there for a reason. And just kind of going there and just kind of putting the culture and kind of putting the mug on top of the coaster.
No, don't do it. Don't do it. It's a stupid coffee table. I don't care how nice your coffee table is. It's a stupid coffee table. But what you could do, what you could do is just start a fight for no good reason. And
this one sounds so dramatic. And if I you know sometimes experience and knowledge, it's like it's a burden.
But three years later, when you're sitting there, you know, having serious troubles in your marriage.
You'll regret that coffee cup coaster move. Yeah. All gret all for a little flash of ego. Yeah, happiness. I got him back. Exactly. One thing I think that people should definitely try to do is serve their in laws this weekend. Very nice. Um, you know, it might be something as small I know, for me, you know, I'm a big coffee guy. Yeah, if you follow me on Instagram, it's coffee and cats basically my entire life much. A little bit of Islam, but a coffee and cats.
I know when my father in law comes, he doesn't even drink coffee, ever. But when he comes to visit us in Dallas, he loves having you know, he calls it like Americans coffee because they put like milk and the lattes and whatever. So, again, it might be a little bit early for me, it might be tiring, I might be busy. Gonna try to make them all cups of coffee when they want be the barista in my house. So serve an older in laws if you're coming to visit or if you're if your kids are coming to visit you serve them. I know that sometimes we say no, no, no, I'm older. They should serve me. Everyone should serve each other. Yeah, in some different way or capacity. It could be something even my
mother in law, I love when my mother in law comes to visit. Yeah, we actually like fly her down to visit us. Same with my mom and my dad, but my mother in law because of that whole stereotype. Yeah. Because when she comes down, man, we're eating good. Yeah, we're eating good in the neighborhood. She's cooking up a storm and she's, she's taken orders. What do you guys want to eat tonight? That kind of service. It makes you so beloved to those that you're serving. If somebody is listening who themselves is kind of like an older, you know, father in law, mother in law, don't also underestimate the fact that when you're, you know, your kid and their spouse, however it is your
son, your daughter, and then their spouse.
When they show up, when they come over that day that they come over, maybe it's Thursday, maybe it's Friday, maybe it's Saturday, when they do come over, just smiling face alarm, and given a hug and kind of a pat on the back kind of an arm around their shoulder thing is really nice to see you. You don't understand how much that'll mean, especially if it's like your child or you're in law like son in law or daughter in law. Yeah, you greet them. You grab their bags, right? That kind of stuff. Just starting off with the right foot.
It's just a smile and arm around their shoulder, just a hug, you know, just a father in law kind of hugging his son in law saying like, thank you very much for coming. We're so happy to have you. It's nice to see you should come more often, you know, the mother in law, kind of like welcoming into daughter in law, like, Hey, how's it going? really happy to see you look really nice today. Just a little compliment, goes a really, really long way. Because sometimes the older in laws, they have their own insecurities. They have their own worries that these kids, they don't respect us. And you know, and etc, etc. Well, you don't understand is that your your son in law, your daughter in law,
they have their own insecurities that my father in law, my mother in law hates me which one of you is going to begin to repair? Yeah, and the process? I'm said, Well, hey to my lady. Yep, that will be Sam, the better of the two is the one who starts the reconciliation process. It's actually interesting when you look at the numbers, Ellie's book on the rights of companionship, basically, to sum it up.
Essentially, all the points lead back to one thing that is preserving the honor and dignity of your brother or sister, another human being you're in and what do you when you rush to greet someone, instead of waiting for them to greet you. You're preserving their dignity, because you're not making them walk over to you. You're running to them. They feel special. As far as my Don't, don't remember. And what I mean by that is, don't bring back old grudges. Do not remember the old fights the old arguments, the old don't remember those things. Because when you remember those things, you see everything, every statement, every action in the lens of that thing. So your father in law might
have called you lazy. And you know, you might have been hurt by that. And then when he asks you to help him carry the garbage out after dinner, you might be thinking, Man, this is because he thinks I'm lazy. He's making me carry the garbage out. But really, you're just acting like a crazy person. He's just asking for help. Yeah, when you remember those things, it taints your ability to start new. Yeah. So go ahead and do yourself a favor and forget. Yeah, just even temporarily, for a couple days. Forget, have a good time. Restart, refresh, and inshallah you'll be able to build where you never thought possible with your in laws. Yeah. Chevron officer. Thank you always. It's a pleasure
being with you here on the Hangout. Thank you guys for coming to hang out with us. Every Thursday morning, come and join us in Sharla for the column Hangout, although next Thursday, I will be in Spain. Yep. So we will be taking a nice little Thanksgiving break. And we'll see you guys in Sharla. And a couple weeks from now, the week after Thanksgiving. Sounds good. Remember, every Thursday morning, come hang out with us. So Mike, thanks