The Hangout – Part 2

Buddy Welcome to the Hangout here autumn Institute with myself Murphy and check out the master Jenga our forever guest

you will always be the guest showing off there even when we have a third guest so I want to let everybody hopefully everyone set up hopefully I was gonna say everybody's having a good week

so the the reason why I interrupt shackled why they come sometimes because we were at a camp one time together and the organizer I still feel it's probably one of my greater moment top three for sure. absolute top three of life to absolutely hands down. So children being born problems you have three kids. So somebody's getting bumped out of that

getting voted off the island. Yeah, so the organizer of the camp was like Sam Why don't you come everybody and then like the organizers started to make an announcement and then

listen, if you're gonna do this, you got to do it right.

So this brother Mashallah he was he was doing the thing right that a camp organizer showed he was being really energetic and enthusiastic and you know, people are doing activities and they're having lectures and they get kind of tired and stuff so he get up there he's like I said, I'm on a ghoom everybody kind of like how the fundraiser does it but he's doing that thing and everybody's like, wow, a cool masala and I'd wait for like a 10 second pause. waalaikumsalam and then as soon as he started talking, yeah, so now go, Why don't go salad.

I don't think you were invited back. No, never again.

You were invited back? Mashallah. That was Appalachian Trail that we had in Knoxville, Tennessee. Shout out to the Appalachian Mountains. Shout out to you guys. Mountains. Okay. So, um, welcome back from the LA, we released our first episode, the spookiest episode, the Halloween episode. That was on Monday, it was yesterday. Yeah.

Already got a lot of text messages from people saying that they really appreciated the perspective that

we were able to provide. And I think, you know, especially given the the dumpster fire that is the internet. Yeah. It was kind of a relief to have a more balanced, grounded foundational approach to the conversation, which is that Halloween is wrong, and everyone who celebrates is covered? See my whole thing is this right? I just don't like I've been talking about it a lot, you know, with you. And with a lot of folks recently. The false duality, right, we live we operate with these false dualities, a binary system, there's right there's wrong. So a false duality right here could basically be what makes our conversation good, that I maybe was a little bit more. I was, you know,

and again, if somebody paid attention, they realize I said, I don't, I don't engage in it, I, if I had my way, my kids wouldn't engage in it. But at the same time, I just don't think that you can place a ruling as severe as harm upon it just with the evidence that's provided. Now, if just the fact that I'm saying, oh, but it's not harm, if that in of itself makes somebody feel that our conversation on it was good, versus somebody else's was bad. That person is operating with, again, that bias that they already have in place. Anyone who's going to say that it's impermissible, regardless of the substance of that person's discussion and conversation, they're garbage. We're

good. Why? Because we said it's not hot. Um, that's, that's a problematic approach.

I enjoyed our conversation, and I would have thanks, I would hope that our conversation was beneficial to folks only for one reason. Because everywhere else all over the internet, you're reading either these really provocative fiery tweets, or either you're reading these super, you know, fiery, provocative tweets. or number two, what you're reading is, you know, just some inflammatory Facebook post that's trying to create an argument in the comment section. And instead of that, we had a one hour long, real, actual human conversation, going back and forth, and that was basically recorded. That's how problems are supposed to be addressed. That's how they were

addressed. Pretty much up until about 10 years ago. Yeah, people would sit and have a conversation about things. And that's how we would address our issues. Not let me write at fit. You know, people feel like that people feel like it says, drastic improvement. Like when you talk about how fall standards have fallen. People feel like it's a drastic improvement to go post something on Facebook because I put two paragraphs versus three lines on Twitter. That's so sad. That that's how we approach such serious issues in our community today. One of

A good friend of both of ours and you know, a mentor to me and one of my earlier teachers and like community work was always offer. A good friend of ours from the lash owners offer some offer we call him. Yeah. And he has this term that I love about people who take their community and spiritual activism to the internet. And he calls it slacktivism. Awesome. And the reason why is because in his words, there's the, the apparent feeling of achieving something doing when in fact, there's really nothing you know, and like, when you type out paragraphs, like nothing's really accomplished just reminds me of work that word, because of the slack app. I don't know why. Oh, yeah, that's true.

Okay, so we won't call it that. There's also like, hacktivism, which is like, you're not really doing it. You're just a hack.

That one more offensive. That's why I like that. Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. Very nice to be using that inshallah. So today, what do we want to talk about today, a Cubs won the World Series. game tonight. I haven't been keeping up. And it's really interesting, because I, baseball was kind of like the first sport I played and stuff. It's a lot of fun when you're a kid, just getting out there whacking the ball and just running the bases and throwing a ball around the field. It's a lot of fun. And I did kind of watch it for a while. I realized, by the way, really quickly that going to a baseball game. really sucks. It's the worst. Yeah. And I realized I was like, but why do people go? And then

as I got older, I started to look around the stadium and drinking apple juice. Exactly. I just realized they have a great time there because they're just plastered the yard. It's not apple juice.

So, but it's been really funny. It's just with life the way it is now with the seminary full time. bunch of other awesome stuff, then three kids.

Yeah, I just I haven't watched any of the I always used to watch the World Series. I haven't watched any of the World Series. Yeah, I'm, uh, you know, we grew up in the north side of Chicago, North suburbs. And so we're, you know, default Cubs fans. Yeah. But I think the Cubs have been getting better and better. I've been paying more attention since they got a new manager, General Manager, CEO, guy from Boston, the Wonder wonder child, he's like 30 something years old already has like three World Series championship. He's just an incredible mind. So I'm paying a lot of attention. It's easier to pay attention to sports when your team is doing well. Which we'll come to cowboys.

You see my cup? I do. See. I do you see that? Yeah. Okay, which which teenagers? Did you steal that from? It's a cowboys cup. But it's a high school paraphernalia. So the Cubs doing okay. Well, actually, they're not there's three and two, so they need to win two straight games in Cleveland to win the World Series. And I had a very interesting experience watching the game the other night.

I was watching the game. It was a close game. Very close game. And the Cubs have this really really good closer.

Chapman and he's someone that can throw like 106 mile per hour fastball. Wow, just insane. And my hands were sweating. When I was watching the game. Like I was having like psychosomatic reactions to my nervousness, even though I'm not playing. And I'm not even there. But like I was, you don't have any money bet on it. I have no Well, no, I don't have any money bet on it. Right. But I was like, very nervous. And I remember also having this feeling

when I was watching like swimming the Olympics, like because it's so high energy and such. I almost had like an adrenaline rush. You know, think of like last 10 seconds. You know, Lakers are down by two you're watching Kobe. That nervousness you feel I was watching your snapchat the other night and got a little window into the angel emotion when the Cowboys are playing this is by the way Why don't like to watch cowboys games with other people. You actually so sir, actually has a very short list of people that he can watch sports with, especially particularly cowboys games. Because why don't you I don't want you to explain it. I don't know. I listen. I just kind of rowdy. Okay.

I don't see what the problem is. I just get kind of rowdy. I just start to yell and scream. My my accent gets super strong. Yeah. And do your kids get scared? Yeah. You're not like that. No, I'm not at all I'm really kind of low key and

it was really funny.

Like two weeks ago because they were on a bike last week. So two weeks ago I was watching the game and something in the game happened I go Yeah, and Mario looks over at me and she's like, you scared me. Yeah, by the way is not for she's nine now. She's not scared scared. You scared as a young adult. I did. This flat pass game I ended up going to the last place and watching the second half because Mohammed's been sick. He's got like this infection, and my wife put him to sleep and she said, You seem like you're gonna get really wild tonight. And you're gonna wake him up and he's on medication. So you just need to take this act out.

Yeah, inside I just went to bed last place. So over time they were playing the Eagles division rivals. Yeah, this seems like everyone in the division division rival. Yeah, pretty much Okay, so they don't like the Eagles. Okay, come in here. Eagles started off the season really well. Carson Wentz is the real deal. He's a great quarterback. You guys have Dak Prescott aka nak Prescott namami con Prescott's. Shout out to Louise. So you guys, the gist of the story for everyone listening is that the cowboys and Eagles is a very, very high stakes game in the division. And the Cowboys are good now for the first time in a long time a couple of years. Yeah. And Tony Romo, one of their star

players, the quarterback consistently keeps getting injured. Yeah, I think shake you've emotionally moved on. Yeah, completely from that you've broken up with him. I don't know who he is. And you texted him and said it's not you. It's me. I have no idea who he is. I deleted his phone number. Oh my god contact from that's an you know, it's real. Yeah. Have you unlocked this Facebook page? I don't have Facebook, but yeah, okay. All right. Well, I'm sorry. I hope that you both feel better and recover from this. So Tony Romo is done. It's a new age, this young rookie Dak Prescott in Mississippi State. He's a really, really dynamic fun to watch. Exciting player. Zico Elliott,

running back from Ohio State. Even though I personally prefer Michigan over Ohio State, just so maheen feels sad. Is that

so anyways, big game and on Snapchat, you're going crazy. Yeah, you're going nuts. I can help us and I was actually shocked because you still have the option not to share those moments. I did. But I what what came what came over you? I don't know. I sides Troy besides suape. So Shay was there talking trash to me the whole time? Okay, he's a saints fan. Yeah. And I just had to do it. And then there's guys that you know, obviously, on Snapchat as well, like a boo who's a Redskins fan gross. Who you know, and then you got a bunch of other those Maryland guys are all Redskins fans name big one of our Calum grads, who's a Redskins fan. So gross. And then you got giants fans like obey the

line money his brother? I just wanted them to see, you know, what a what a winner looks like. Okay. So you wanted to put that out there for the world? So

the question came to me when I was watching that was

what what will people think? Because I think that a lot of times, like in our community, the idea of enjoying recreation, enjoying sports, it's seen as sort of like a secret, like a dirty secret that no one wants to talk about. And some scholars, you know, some people in the community, some community leaders, when the Superbowl rolls around, yeah, that's their annual Facebook post about what a waste of time sports are. And, you know, we're deviating from a religion and oh, now they're having Superbowl parties at the masjid. This is the bit out of the profit. So someone was talking about. So I was sort of having this, like, interesting experience, seeing my teacher, someone that a

lot of people look towards for Islamic information. And, you know, to be on mentorship, watching something. And actually, a lot of people don't know this, but the first time you and I met in my house in Chicago when my mom was making like a zoo full of chicken. Yeah. You know, she did that multiple times. But the first time when Sokka brought you over the comment, or the way that we started talking was about football. Yeah, because you mentioned something and you were wearing like your hanafy costume your outfit, right? And the reason I say I don't mean that I don't mean that derogatory, right in any way. Because I also wear you know, Eastern clothing at times, but you came

in fully decked out Yeah, with a turban. And he was coming from like a lecture or something. Yeah, no, I think you're just coming from Baskin Robbins. Yes. Decided to dress very formally. So you were like the turban and the, in the vest and everything. So I was you know, I grew up in Chicago. So I was kind of having like a PTSD reaction to like this Maulana coming over to my house and like very, you know, scared about what what if he was going to ask my mother if he was Hello, you know, and he was gonna like, you know, I don't know what other kind of statements he would make towards my family. That would have been

interesting and offensive. But anyways, so then you come in, and you mentioned how like, you were making draw for me because I was a Bears fan. Yeah. And I remember being like, wow. So for me, the fact that you're a sports fan, it only just brings us closer together as friends and also even as a student, it makes me sort of be able to connect to you more. How do you then justify or speak to the other side which says that and let's let's make this conversation a little bit broader. You like movies? Yeah, I like movies. We're both excited that the new Star Wars is coming out? Yeah. Obviously we have our Islamic standards about what kind of movies we watch. We you know, don't watch

certain things. How do you justify or how do you think about because everything has to go through the lens of faith, right? Everything spirituality, not necessarily legally right? But every

has to be something that we understand spiritually can can impact our emotion. Sure. So how do you justify that being someone who does, who does enjoy recreation by watching sports and movies, etc, etc. So there's two things.

Number one, what I would say is that I do, and again, anyone's free to disagree with this, but I do find some type of basis of the fact that you can have a personal activity, you can have something that you personally enjoy, that you engage in.

And there is credence, and precedent for being able to have some type of hobby or recreational activity. And if you look into the life of the prophets, a lot of a sudden, you find things like expressions of art, such as, you know, poetry,

and where the profits a lot, he said, um, facilitated poetry, he recognized many poets, and he complimented many poets from cobbin Malik top delivering their waha, to Hassan bin sabot. And so much so that when Hassan bin COVID became kind of took was able to take this art form that he engaged in and was able to contribute to the community through it the profits, a lot of these him actually gave him a platform within the masjid the member, right? Yeah, so he had like, kind of like a silent maker, and oh my god, Allahu taala. And who was like, how dare you do this in the middle of the process? I'm in the process and told him calm down, relax, this is good, he defends me.

So we find that you see the whole issue with the abbot simians who had come and at a time they're doing different feats of you know, physical, you know, performance archery and different, you know, displays of like, just physical prowess, and how everyone's kind of watching this entire act this entire performance together. I mean, that we when you want to talk about sports a lot of times that's quite literally it. Yeah, you know, the the profits a lot. He said, um, he talked about how, you know, he complimented even racing horses. Now, obviously not like how they raise horses today where they, you know, abuse the animals, but it's just kind of like in terms of a friendly, like

practicing riding a horse and racing your horses. He complimented that idea. They used to use birds to hunt and train those birds and the profits a lot. He said, I'm allowed and even complimented that idea, even training dogs for hunting purposes.

The profits a lot from him, he himself, he went outside and you know, raced with each other the Allahu taala. And he talked about a lot

from you. He talked about archery and practicing archery and doing art and young Sahaba used to have archery competitions, where they would actually kind of compete, they would compete against one another. So what would you say about someone who maybe says, Okay, well, all these things you're mentioning, they seem to have some sort of, you know,

like secondary or like, eventual ultimate you know, I don't want to sound like too subjective but practical benefit Sure. archery riding horses, maybe that's for like battle. poetry. Yeah, that one's kind of tough, too. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it's praising the prophet SAW me the other day. So what about like watching football? Or what about watching baseball? Like, is there any sort of, if we can't find any, like immediate benefit spiritually to watching the Cubs game?

Is there then in fact, Islamic law is there is it does it become haram automatically, or things haraam until proven? Hello? Like what's, how do we know? So things aren't things are permissible until they're proven to be impermissible? That's actually one of the principles of Islamic law.

Right? And the second idea, there is also part of the extremism in religion that the Prophet Allah actually warned us against was to start to encroach upon permissible things, and narrow people's lives constrict people's lives. So this is actually very interesting, you know, Lima 200, moment halala hula, right. So the I ns was more or less, I was talking to the Prophet so some of them you know, why are you trying to Why are you making

I don't have the Dina caliber who, that anyone who tries to become too strict and harsh within this the practice of this religion, the religion will overcome that so it's very interesting it almost takes a certain complex level of thought to understand that while this thing may not have an inherently beneficial essence to it, you know me watching you watching Dak Prescott throw a touchdown to Jason Witten. Yeah, Jason Witten go balls. He played for the UT volunteers, you watching that? It might not increase your eemaan but removing your ability to socialize and recreate by watching football might actually hurt your human and that's the next big point I was gonna come

to so legally speaking. We just got to stop this business of

The second something makes me uncomfortable. Some the second something does not suit me, then I have to find a way to legally restricted and constricted. Just get over this. There's a lot of narcissism that's in spiritual narcissism that's involved with that. That's egocentricity. Yeah. There's egocentricity, you're very egocentric. The world revolves around you, you find no value in it. So I might as well just be haraam like that somebody just needs to get over themselves. The second thing is, from a spiritual perspective, somebody could be like, okay, let's take the conversation to spirituality because spiritually speaking, you know, you're sitting there, these athletes are

running around, they're cursing, swearing, they're throwing the ball around, they're hitting, you know, knocking the daylights out of each other, and commercials are problematic and all this kind of stuff. Absolutely. I would 100% agree with everyone with all those points. But what I would also say is if we're having a spiritual conversation, spirituality, is it not also a principle that something that preoccupies you something that can keep you away from harmful, detrimental spiritually damaging behavior, conduct involvement? Bad Company, can actually be a good thing. Like when we get together for the bears game? You got him over a few nights ago, a few weeks ago? Yeah, we all prayed and

mother Venetia and Gemma. Yep. And we were sitting in good company. And in between, actually, most of our conversations were about life. They were about our work. Even our studies, there were officers all students of the seminar. It was it was right. Yeah. And you swipe, swipe. We may have seen making the Snapchat mad cameos and your Snapchat, so so you're one a nice year to Yeah, have a lawyer too. Yeah. Myself. Your zero? Yeah, you're forever.

inside joke. I'm basically like a pre I'm like a existentially forever seminary student with an author and then you yourself instructor. So we had like, seminary people over talking. And during commercials we would like basically turn the TV off or turn away from it. Kitchen in the kitchen, making coffee making tea after dinner and just like, Hey, remember that one? Had you read? Like I've always had a question about it. very real. I mean, this isn't even like stage No, Snapchat was being used. We weren't we weren't even planning on recording this episode of the podcast. This was a real life. Yeah. So when people go and happened that night where I went nuts because the Cowboys overtime

game, but it was myself. You're giving me great little drops of steel. I'm going nuts. Everybody better. So it was myself obey the law. suhaib after suhaib who's also you know, now in the year two of the seminary, so ta also a TA. Mashallah Hoff is also ijazah. And the 10 recitations, which is like, it's, it's like, it's like next level, and he's a husband and a father. Yeah. And he did all of that. While doing all of that, and he's a football fan. Yeah. So he was over there. He was there and they Lowe's obviously there obey the law. Me him. schreib. I think that was pretty much it. There was somebody I Nice, nice. Was there again, of course, thanks for the input.

I think you were invited.

But we'll talk about this off off off air. What what why don't we want to talk about it? Right. But I wasn't invited. Actually, I was I think I was at someone else's house. Yeah. Yeah. So and it was the same night as a Cubs game? Yes. It was like a really emotional night for me. Yeah. So you so so you guys are all doing the same thing was happening. Basically, same thing during commercials. We were sitting on the debt. We weren't even sitting in the living room on the couch. I only went to the couch during the overtime because it just couldn't deal anymore. But we were we were sitting on the dining table back there. We're having tea we were talking about a nice was, you know, telling us

about all the recent questions. He teaches high school students Islamic Studies, yeah, a couple of days a week. So he was talking about all the recent issues, all the recent questions that have come up, and we were just all discussing them and debating them. And kind of talking about how would you address this? How would you address that? How would you address that? How would you address this? And, and game was on in the background. But even for people who maybe don't discuss it Buhari in their free time, just being in a place where you're not surrounded by negative elements, or toxic elements, let's say and that itself is reward worthy. Listen, and I don't know, you know, I

understand that people want, Is it wrong to have a good time? No. And I understand people kind of want maybe want like a little bit more of an insight for analysis or whatever. If I broke it down, really, really simply. Look, here's what it boils down to the time when I was growing up, particularly and it's even relevant today, but I'm talking about while I was growing up, because now we're saying those same things about some of the things that young people today do, but when I was growing up, there was there weren't a lot of fancy video games.

There are there was no internet, there was no nothing. There weren't actually a lot of Muslims, there was practically no Muslim community around here. And football became, you know, something that we kind of latched on to and became a pastime. And I'm certain I know for a fact, and because I was already doing some stupid stuff, and kind of just being on the fringe of doing something stupid enough to get you in trouble with the law.

But if it wasn't for football, and kind of that pole, that football provided, and kind of that preoccupation that it provided, I probably would have done a lot more regrettable stuff, and maybe even done something stupid enough to get me in legally in trouble. Hmm. And, um, I just, I would like for somebody to be able to,

you know, address that and be able to explain to me how that wasn't something that was helpful to me. And the reason why we're even talking about this in the frame of Islam is because while Islamic legality is not something that should be, you know, the residue of it should not be on everything, and no one should be beating over the head with it. We do, obviously, as Muslims have a responsibility to our own EMA and our faith, to kind of like, evaluate our actions. So while we're not bringing Islam, quote, unquote, into everything, in a legal sense, from a worldview perspective, like how do we view the world, we should ask ourselves these questions like is what I'm doing okay,

all the time. And there's a lot of times where you might actually, as you get older, realize that what you are doing is actually, in fact, detrimental to your faith? Absolutely. So you're like, maybe I should stop. And to that point, I'll basically say that exactly, you hit the nail on the head, where I don't think fick has to be necessarily superimposed over each and every single thing and even that a lot of people are gonna disagree with that statement. But

as become evidently clear to anyone who's been following anything for a while, nobody cares. But, exactly. But I don't personally think that fit has to be superimposed over everything. Because like we just said, the general realm of things is mobile, they're just permissible. But spirituality does flow through everything permeate oxygen. Exactly. It's everywhere. It's in everything. And spirituality is very important. You got to always consider, and I think the two points that you're gonna that you said right there. Number one, I like that. Because to be very, very honest.

When you ask me, does, you know following sports, football, basketball, or movies, or movies, is that good for your spirituality? Just a question makes me a little uncomfortable makes me squirm Just a little. And that's something we always have to be willing to do is hold ourselves accountable and ask ourselves tough questions. Stop asking. So there's, this is where some of it comes in sub projecting and stop asking other people tough questions. Ask yourself a tough question. So if you are the kind of person who just has never had any inclination toward sports, but maybe you're really into food, food, maybe you're really into eating out at fancy places and spending hundreds of

dollars on a single meal, ask yourself or like or like driving 45 minutes to eat something? Yeah. Ask yourself, is that justified? Is that spiritually good for you? And honestly, speaking, when you read the, the teskey, a text that you and I've read? Yeah, hunger and food are like really, really big issues. Huge. You know, I don't see them mentioning a lot of like, you know, social time with friends being a detriment as much as I as much as I noticed that scholars mentioned, overeating. Yes. And, and making food like a mux out of your life, exactly the purpose and the goal of your life, so many other things, right? I see some people who are like, okay, I don't follow sports. I

don't I'm not I don't like spend excessive amounts of money eating and fancy restaurants. But this person spends three hours a day in the gym. Okay, I listen, I'm not going to criticize somebody for being healthy and being in shape. I constantly need to work on it, and I do try to work on it. However, that being said, spiritually, isn't there something better you could do with three hours? Okay, maybe give an hour to the gym, but you've become a gym rat, three hours now. I mean, that's, I mean, of waking hours, you're looking at like, one fifth of your day, probably. That's nuts, to become a gym rat. So that's that maybe that person needs to ask themselves a tough question.

Somebody's like, okay, I don't waste a lot of time in this type of stuff. I don't follow sports. I'm not spending hundreds of dollars on a single meal. But this person is just obsessed with cars. And they spend, you know, all weekend every single weekend, eight hours on Saturday, eight hours on Sunday just parked in their driveway, just adding one little thing to their to the engine of their car. That's gonna add 10 extra horsepower. Okay,

Spiritually, are you making the most of your life right now? So I do think you're very on the dot for asking that question. And I have to have the willingness, the spiritual awareness, to be able to check myself and ask myself, and I will make to admissions here in light of that, and it's my own personal business, but part of the podcast is to just kind of talk to folks and maybe kind of help them, you know, figure some of this stuff out. I'll make two admissions here. Number one, I've really drastically made it a point like because I hold myself accountable, like, you texted me last night, and you're like, yeah, bears won. And I was like, Oh, really? Did they? Because I didn't

watch the game or you weren't just insulting me.

I wasn't insulting you even though I had no motivation to watch the game. Because I was like, the the Vikings and then the bears. I was like, Vikings are doing well. This year. They're doing okay. They're doing okay. They're doing all right. No, they were actually doing really well. And the bears beat them. They're they're doing all right, so.

Mashallah, but, uh, so you didn't even you didn't even know. No, I didn't know. Because I made a show something, I made it a point to kind of say that. Okay, cowboys were playing Sunday night, it was a division game, I was kind of into it. So I watched it. But because I watched that I am a father, I do have three kids.

And I do have better things to do with my time, I have a wife that I want to spend time with. So what I'm going to do is, I'm not going to watch the game tonight at all. I'm gonna, you know, play games with my daughters.

tuck them in for bed. My son wasn't feeling well. So I'm gonna sit with him for a little bit, then tuck him in, then I can actually sit and have an adult conversation with my wife. That's what I'm gonna do with those three hours instead of watch that game. So I did as an adult have to start making those decisions about cut down the amount of time I do invest into it. And then the second thing is, and I kind of broke that rule on Sunday night, but like I said, I kind of did it just because I and again, this is not to sound like I'm making excuses. But I swear to God, which is what people say when they make excuses. I was provoked. Okay, I did make a kind of a point to not go on

trial right now. Listen, why are you sweating? Leave me alone. But uh, I did kind of make it a point to not broadcast, uh, you know, online about sports, like, whatever my, whatever I'm following in terms of sports as much as I used to. But

I did kinda indulge a little bit because, you know, before the game even started, I started getting the tweets. I started getting the message on our snapchats like, who who game today? Who's gonna lose and I was like, Listen, you you, you stupid person would poke the bear. Right? Yeah, exactly. Some dude who had like Philadelphia and snapchat like name and I don't even know who he is. It's like, why are you talking to me? He's like sama Lake home chef. Just thought I would let you know, because you're going to lose tonight.

Like, why would you mess with me? Now? Look what happened? It's not very nice. Not nice at all. No one ever remembers the first punch though. It's always the second one. This is the knockout punch baby. It's like, Oh, you know? That's okay. Okay, so another thing and this ties into a lot of people might might not be sports fans. Yeah. They might play video games. They might watch a lot of movies, they might be really into certain actors and actresses. So I just use that analogy, I just think is universal. I just think we got to get out of the shaming business. I just want somebody to show me one example of where shaming somebody ever resulted in some type of positive behavioral

change, because Okay, yeah, and I'm not guilty of the shaming, maybe hopefully, may Allah protect me and forgive me if I ever have honestly, honestly speaking. But for me, like, my, my wife is really into Bollywood. And she's really responsible about what she watches. I've actually watched a couple of films with her. It took a few weeks, but we made it through.

You know, because they're, like, 19 hours long, but driving to Toronto from here. Seriously, they Hey, do you want to fly around the world three times do you want to watch one Bollywood movie? It's like, as far as the time investment? No, she's into it. And And honestly, I can I can see her point in that is a very different kind of movie. It's a very different kind of, it's almost like a musical. It's it's different. It's different. And she obviously you know, shares with everyone sort of shock and disgust about how lewd it has gotten recently, you know, it's become basically softcore pornography, to be very honest with you. I mean, I'll be at a sushi restaurant sometimes eating and

they like, they'll just leave the TV. Just embarrassing. And yeah, it happened to us after Juma it's so Oh, yeah, yeah, well, that was Arab. Yeah. Which is this is like, it was like worse. Yeah, it was like Lebanese or something TV and we're just having lunch me and obey the laughter Juma and this stuff is on TV and myself. bazooka, yeah, again, I said, you mean when you said mean a bit luck, and this is recorded?

It we fighting, maybe. But uh, we're just sitting there eating

And again, just talking about adult stuff. And like real life stuff, and then there's these like gigantic screens in the corner just has like unnecessary garbage on it. Yeah, like super. And I kind of remember I stopped and I just kind of pointed out and I was like, What country does this come from? Because all y'all look the same to me. So what country does it come from make America great again. Make Arlington great again. So my wife like fully recognizes the lewdness and like I, you know, we've even sat together as a family like her myself, her mom and her sister we've kind of discussed, you know, and they're all sort of taken aback by how like, just neutral things are. Yeah.

But there are some that are a little bit more classic. And they have like universal timeless values and right. I don't know their names, but like, you know, their stuff and sort of the classic ones, you know, I really don't know their names. glaube, Javelin glug, glug gentleman called Goliath. so jealous, loud gentlemen, part one good luck, gentlemen. Part Two glad Sheldon author's mad that whenever I'm speaking to an audience, and I use like an or do phrase lap gentlemen that the audience goes nuts. And not that I do it because of that just do it inflection of trying to be relevant to just do an inflection of tones like go out jam, I'm trying to go out, I know or do poetry. Now. You

can't say this anymore. I know or do poetry now.

Okay, so these movies, so my wife is talking about this. And and there are times where I'm like, you know, I have to catch myself. And I'm like, Why is she so into this, but then I realized like, my hands are sweating at a Cubs game. And it's like, it's the same thing. You know, same thing. Sometimes people who are are trying to be more devout and religious, they have hobbies that they love, that they are unable to analogize and make that connection that the person that you're criticizing, simply because you don't like it, which is what you basically just got done saying, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not the same thing. Yeah, it's exactly the same

reaction. This person is very invested into this art form. I'm invested into this sport. Why can't we just sort of like Live and let live so long as it's not haram? Yeah, so we're not talking about movies that are like, explicitly problematic, right, like, Bad Santa. Right. And these other things that I just saw commercial recently. That's why it came to mind. But not those those are clearly problematic, you know, and even sports like, there are some sports that might be inherently problematic. Yeah, just by the way that someone is dressed or by what it does. Like I've always been, to be quite honest, I've always been uncomfortable with boxing. Yeah. Because of just the sort

of, I was gonna kind of say that, that I do think there needs to be notice I said uncomfortable though. Yeah, and I've always I've never said, I didn't just say, oh, I've always felt that boxing's haraam? Yeah, I've always been a little bit uncomfortable with boxing, and, and, and UFC because because of the hoodie that talks about striking the face. Yeah, and how it just feels wrong of the human being. It just feels uncomfortable to me, because you see these guys after the fights and they're just like their faces are deformed. Yeah, it's very good working people with their mushroom ears. And so how Allah And I do think that there needs to also and I'm just kind of talking to

myself and maybe anybody else who's listening. There needs to be enough room for growth and for sophistication over time. Like one thing I have started to become a lot more kind of conscious and aware of is, you know, the concussion problem in football. So we have we have a couple friends that we know, Hamza and St. Abdullah right in two brothers. Michelle played the NFL, their other brother Rob bass, who also played I believe in high school in college. Yeah. So you know Hamza Mashallah shout out to Hamza and Hussein. Ryan. There's so many now they've done incredible. Yeah, Ryan Harris, in a Super Bowl champion, Mashallah. But there's the, there's a lot of these, you know,

individuals that we've met, and they're very, very vocal about very real issues. And Hassan Hussein, in particular took, you know, they became very well known because they, you know, stop their NFL career and what could have been considered maybe the safe time where they would have had contracts and stuff and they went to Hajj. They also did a speaking tour across the country, right? Where they wanted to really encourage young people to come out to the masjid and kind of tell their story, really, really great stuff. But they hums in particular, Hussein as well. But Hamza knows become very, very much an advocate

against the maltreatment of athletes, and their injuries and concussions, and he even shared a lot of his personal stories. That has to weigh heavily on a viewer of the sport. Yeah, it does. But I still noticed that he himself still watches, you know, he tweets, games and stuff like that. He's very much into cheering for his old teammates, his old team, but at the same time, he's very vocal about this. Yeah. And so there is this this, you know, nuanced. There's a complexity to this issue. It's not as straightforward as Hurghada. Hello, no, you know, there's a lot here that needs to be unpackaged. But you were saying so, yeah, I'm just saying I think there needs to be that openness

enough to be able to consider and learn and maybe grow and who knows. You know, another five years later, I might just grow uncomfortable enough with just the game and the way that it's gone, where I'm like, you know what, I'm just not gonna partake of this anymore.

Not going to be a consumer anymore. I'm not going to give them my viewership any longer. And I retreat is going to be very important for me at that time to not climb onto my high horse and start talking down to everybody else. So I was actually talking to a parent the other day, she came to our youth barbecue on Sunday. And she was mentioning to me that it was so funny, man, when parents talk about their kids, it's hilarious, but she was like,

I'm really worried about my daughter. And I was like, oh, man, and I in my head. I'm thinking, like, I'm going through all the possible issues. I'm like, oh, man, is the daughter This is this what? Who she dating What's going on? So I'm thinking of, you know, really serious concerns, even dating honestly, at this point. I mean, you didn't hear from me, but I'm thinking of like drug abuse and all this kind of stuff.

Maybe pregnancy, who knows? And she goes, she's a really good girl. She's good at school. She's very respectful. And I'm like, okay, what's the problem? Like, I'm sort of like, if she does her prayers. I'm like, Okay. And then she's like, but just she just listens to music.

And she's like, in a really, really worries me about her this and that. And I was like, Okay, what else? I'm like waiting for the punch line. And don't get me wrong. There's some music out. Now. That's a very fall just found. It's just, there's no other way to put it. Besides, it's poisonous. It's just humiliating. Yeah, it really is. totally embarrassed. It's degrading to the human race. But this question as well, that comes up, which is well, how can you partake in you and I went to a cowboys game? Yeah, they play music during timeouts. Movies has music in it. All these things have music in it. The discussion about music is one that's been there since the beginning of Islamic law,

it's probably going to go there till the Day of Judgment. Absolutely. variety of scholarly opinions on it. Obviously, Edna hasm is probably the most quoted, right for the permission permissibility of it, right. And then you have others, like, you know, if an ambassador's famous, I think even Ambassador mustard, right? famous statement about that, you know, the love of God and love of music cannot exist in the same heart, you know, hypocrisy sprouts from music, etc, etc. So it's a very, very nebulous topic, but people sort of just try to drop a sledgehammer on it. How do you approach that situation? Someone listens to music? I mean, you know, the leaving for this podcast might have

a resemblance of music.

How do you approach that?

So again, I think that there are two layers to the conversation, there's a very dry legal in the classroom, kind of in the fit lab conversation, and then there is a more nuanced spiritual

conversation.

So the discussion and the spiritual conversation, the discussion is, and again, absolutely, it's an arena of ideas, it's arena of thought, and, you know, instead lol and which basically means, you know, proving your argument and constructing a worthwhile valid, you know, well established argument or point of view. That's the objective here. So, I have no problem with somebody disagreeing, and I know that I will be disagreeing with others. When I say what I say. My own personal stance is, again, I have trouble arriving at the ruling and the understanding of haraam. That word. impermissible? I have trouble getting to that point for two reasons. Because a lot of the three

reasons I'll actually give you when you look at the Quran, there's no explicit address of it within the Koran. So this is by the way very, very important for everybody and that's not to say that we're going to run around saying show me in the crowd and show me the crowd, but at the same time Islamic law is built upon sources Yes, it is and a scholar we went over this last time, you know, the Halloween Halloween epic word. Scholars can't just project their personal discomfort and make it law there has to be what's called Innes, which is like a scriptural evidence from the Koran or from the life of the prophet SAW Exactly. And even the statement of a companion is not itself independently

that we can be my third point sorry, okay, no, no, no, but that's exactly it. First point is in the Quran. There's no mention of it. In some narrations, mean, prophetic traditions, the statements of the process of some there's some mention of it. But then here's the tricky part.

Though, there are some implicit references to it

that are authentic but they're very implicit references not outright blatantly saying music equals huddle. Okay, so that figurative language again, figurative language, some references to certain situations, etc, etc. The more explicit references to actually music being impermissible are not fully authenticated.

So it kind of leaves you in this kind of gray zone and gray area you kind of feel like maybe the profits a lot he said I'm is kind of

Using some of the language folks use today kind of maybe casting a little shade on to music. Yeah, some shade on throwing some shade on it but not completely just banning it and outlawing it not putting respect on it. I guess that's the thing. Don't do that. Don't act like this. I know exactly what I don't understand what you're talking about. You're the internet master. I had all we all we all humble ourselves before your internet greatness. This is so dumb. I have absolutely no idea what your screenshots are coming. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to keep it 100 is it? The correct answer? You should have? You should just set it wrong. Like oh, 100 100 Yeah, with the DNR? Yes. 100

you can keep 100 Okay, so, so he's sort of, I suppose this is almost sort of implicitly or referring to it. Not in not not unnecessarily like a positive light. Not necessarily an you know, not a pro yet. Maybe, maybe Exactly. See that again, is that false duality. It's either recommended or it's prohibited. It's either mandatory or prohibited none other shades in the middle, where maybe he's casting a little bit of negativity onto it, but not outright prohibiting it. Can we think of another example from the life of the prophet SAW Selim where he himself did cast it this shade onto it? Didn't partake in it himself, but did not right forbid it. Already. Have one? Go ahead. The dub?

Yeah, the lizard. So have you been what he offered him? lizard? Yeah, the desert lizard. Look it up. It's beautiful. It's so tasty. It looks like it looks like a mini dragon. And the fat dragon. Yeah. And the prophet SAW Selim.

Said I find myself not needing this. Mm hmm. But how loved it. Yeah. So he never cheated till today. So yeah. But so yeah, that didn't necessarily he was casting shade on it. Like Imagine if the problem. Imagine if you really admire somebody, and that person says, I don't think I want this. Yeah, you as like a devout admirer of that person might say, Oh, well, this person clearly doesn't like it that you shouldn't do it. But he's sad, on the same spread where they continue to eat it without partaking of it. So there's something similar in the same vein. So he's maybe that's what he's doing here. And so then the third thing I was going to mention, the third element is that there

are a lot of authentically attributed statements of the companions and particularly moreso, the Tabby our own, right, that that's a third generation that came. So the companions of the Prophet and then the next generation, so companions of companions, yeah, companions of companions. So there's a lot of authentically attributed explicit statements there. Now, this is a really nuanced issue, and it's maybe even somewhat outside the scope of even a podcast, but I'll encourage somebody, you know, definitely sign up for a class, whoever it may be with grace intensive, yeah, but, you know, obviously, I'm more so recommend, come study with us, we'd love to have your company. But

there's a little technicality and that is a companion to somebody that we respect. So much. So Hobby Lobby Allahu anhu. That's what we say about the law. Wanna make God be pleased with them. We respect them and love them and admire them so much. We named our kids up to them. We named their kit My, my, my I have a daughter named Alisha, my Ayesha, right. She's, that's what she's named after. So we have so much respect for them and admiration and love and regard for them. That being said, there is a rule in Islamic law, that when a companion says something that is not the product of like a rational thought, that's not an extrapolation of a ruling, they're communicating some information

that cannot be acquired except by means of the prophet or revelation Salallahu alaihe salam, then, fine, you take it as if the Prophet would have said it. So for instance, if Abdullah bin Massoud says, paradise has seven stages, there's no way he can come to that conclusion rationally has to be through divine exactly so that that local number four, we take that as a hadith as if the prophets Allah decent said it. However, when I've delivered, Massoud says, I

don't allow people or my people to listen to music. That is more of a personal thought.

As a result of his own extrapolation and rational thought and legal reasoning, when he says that we respect it a lot, but it's not binding and there could be some very powerful wisdom in it. A huge for people I've delivered Masuda the Allahu anhu as much as especially I bring his name up because having a more soon wise and fit wise and more Hanafi background. I mean, he's he's a superhero. He's the Godfather, he the man

but when it comes to like a woman's covering

All right, he had a very, very isolated position. He basically felt like the hands in the face must be covered. Which is interesting because the hanafy method doesn't require the hands in the face to be covered or even the feet. Yeah. Only that if allowed for the feet to not be covered as well. So breathe sisters. So he's got a very isolated position. And that's why it's so important to note that as a Hobbes ruling is not binding. I just got the weirdest email. Sorry. Yeah, this is really bad. Was that other man save 7% on a new Maserati? Why are you getting emails from monster writing? No idea. When did you subscribe to the Maserati email list? columns because paying me too much. So

anyways, okay, so it says this, he has a very nuanced position with regards to women's clothing. Yeah. But that's not legally binding. Exactly. So same here. Fine. Yes, with all due respect and love and admiration of delivering Masood Abdullah bonobos, all these very esteemed high ranking companions, illustrious companions of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, they said, that maybe they felt, you know, music should be impermissible should not be allowed. But that is their extrapolation and it is not absolutely binding. Okay, so how do we then interpret, for example, the famous Hadith, the prophet SAW Selim, where the companions were laughing, enjoying

themselves having good time, you know, probably not much unlike us having a good time watching the football game. And the Prophet Mohammed sauce alum came to them and said, If you knew what I knew, about, you know, the reality of this world and the next life, etc, you'd be laughing less and you'd be crying more. Yeah. This Hadith is oftentimes used to,

you know, I don't want to say shame because it is, it is exactly it is a teaching of the Prophet Muhammad SAW them. But it's used to sort of

impose upon people a restriction of socializing and having recreation having fun. Now we just talked about, there were times companions had a lot of fun. The province was on had a lot of fun. I mean, there were some narrations of the companions laugh so hard, they fell on their backs. Yeah. But how do we now recognize is heavy was at a certain time that was very serious. Was it a certain topic that was very serious? Like, what was the what was the context? The first thing that's very important to note is that was said in the machine. Oh, wow.

Pretty much problem solving. Yeah. It just goes to show you like a little bit of knowledge goes a long way. Because how many 100 thieves have stood on the member and use the Hadeeth to guilt everybody? Yeah. And make everybody feel like you know, your life just has to suck. Yeah. Like you're not allowed to go home and just be yourself. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that so they're in a place that's sacred. Yeah. sanctified, right? The sanctity, Masjid. And we define this last episode. The place of prayer, right? They're not in the lobby. No, no, they're not in the gym of the master. No, no, during the Muslim during the actual prayer, prayer hall around the prayer time, on the

prayer, we're like, Look, you take out 10 minutes five times a day for a law does that these 10 minutes, just be for? And it's actually you know, if you walked into the mesha today, at 130, it's 127. And there's a everyone's just joking around, everyone's slapping their knees and rolling around. You might actually say similar thing. I've been like, Come on, guys. Let's try to get it together. Yeah, I bet I mean, when I first graduated and came back and would work with the with the with the youngins? Yeah, I was just gonna say the same thing. Yeah. When I when I bring them into the machine, like prayer time, and it was like five minutes Oh, prayer, and they start getting kind

of antsy and restless, you know, teenagers and high schoolers. They start getting antsy and restless. And I would have to just kind of rally him together. I'd sit down with them kind of sit make him sit around me, I'd be like, Come on, guys. I need y'all to re rein it in. And kind of, you know, keep it together. did the same thing this Sunday. Yeah, kids are just going nuts. And I just had to say, Okay, guys, prayers in 30 seconds, let's all line up. In serious, you know, we're about to think of love everything we have, etc, etc. And yeah, you have to. Absolutely. So all this conversation. Extremely insightful, very eye opening. What's the limit, though? What's, what's the

limit? So the we we just discussed the machines a place of limitation. Right? You know, we don't necessarily in the prayer wrote at the prayer time. Yeah. We don't necessarily start talking about the World Series, no, are telling us stand up? No, we're going through our routine and getting laughs is there. Is there a limit just in our everyday life? Like, how do I know that I'm too much of a sports fan or that I like a celebrity too much, spiritually, and even maybe legally? How do I know when it's too much? I have two things that I personally, you know, kind of conduct myself by and I also advise to whatever people who are close, and who might ask for advice. Number one is that

to what extent does it mess with your emotional well being? Explain that. If the Cowboys would have lost in overtime on Sunday, would I come home and then when my

Life is like you clenching your fists right now.

But I come home and my wife's like, hey, how is the game? And I'm like, Don't talk to me right now. There's a problem. And that's actually very common. It's bizarre. I mean, there was a point when I was younger, where I was probably like that, that thanks for calling me bizarre. Nobody really it No, it is, yeah, it's it's your your stability emotionally is, you know, problematic, absolutely. To invest it. That's, that's one element. And then the other element is, when it can actually start deterring you distracting you from two things, three things I would say. Number one, your relationship with Allah, spirituality, number two, your relationship with your family. And number

three, is your responsibilities in life, depending on where you are in your life, if you're still in school, then it starts to interfere with your schooling, where you start to fail and flunk if you're an adult, adult, and you have a job, and it starts to mess with your ability to perform your job.

Or your you know, then then that's the second gauge, does it start to interfere with more important things and priorities in your life and I list them as three, your relationship with a lower spirituality, relationship with family, your personal relationships, and your responsibilities in life, whether you're a student or a working professional. Okay. And that's obviously, you know, it goes without saying that if the content itself is problematic, that's just a deal breaker. You know, if there's, you know, anything that's really problematic in the movie, or in the show,

deal breaker, it's pretty much defined by that, then it's just better to avoid it. And altogether, it can be impermissible very, very quickly. Yeah. Very interesting. stuff. I think a lot of people struggle with this. Yeah. Because

of the religion is made to seem inherently antisocial. Yeah, by a lot of our upbringing and education that we received is that you can either have fun or you can be religious, right. And so there's this notion that have fun while you're young, get religious and you're older. But it strikes me as no surprise that the coolest most,

you know, relevant, most admired people in my community, the uncles and Auntie's and the role models, were always ones who were able to strike that balance. Yeah. And were able to find a way to be social, be fun, but also respect their faith and their tradition, and never ever lose their devotion to a law or let anything threaten that. Right. You know, and they would know, they wouldn't know when to tone it down. Yeah, so we have a Super Bowl party at the masjid for a youth group, we shouldn't we shouldn't have an issue. No, turn off the commercials. Yeah, keep it clean. Yeah, pray on time, you know, just make sure you kind of are able to work your way through the room, kind of,

you know, patent some of the kids, you know, on the back, kind of, like, you know, you know, just just shaking hands with a few of the kids and given an encouraging word, you know, to each, like, you kind of almost like end up touching base with each of them, you know, kind of making sure they're doing okay, and they're gonna be alright, for the next week, while you don't see them. And it becomes an opportunity to be able to do that. Just build man, I actually have an interesting other thing to add to when you know, it's gone too far, you know, we can end on this conversation point, which is when you start to defend, or, you know, really, really become attached to the

celebrity or the sports, you know, the sports star, whatever politician even. Yeah, to the point where like, it becomes personal. Yeah.

You know, everyone knows that, especially out of out of the draft, Derrick Rose is huge. For Chicago. Yeah.

You know, we were all Chicagoans were very, very invested. Yeah. You know, bulls fans, especially. Then obviously, this news comes out of the alleged rape case. And even though he was recently found not guilty, there's a lot of problems that Yeah, just in general, just the character, you know, not to say that we know him or we know the unseen, but based on the apparent actions that were, you know, codified in the indictment. It seems like there's a lot of issues, there are a lot of moral issues that we should take a stand against. And I see this oftentimes with celebrities, as well, as, you know, actors and actresses on Facebook and athletes, you know, domestic lives, really, to be

really honest with you, you bring up that point. I think

I watched maybe one cowboys game last year, whole season.

And part of it was the whole Greg hardy thing, the domestic violence, and the Cowboys signed a player who was convicted of having brutally brutally beaten his girlfriend or wife or fiance so many times, and the Cowboys signed him in spite of knowing that that's Jerry and Jarrod. And it was it was just a huge turnoff. And I just I said, I don't want to watch. You don't want to support them now. Yeah. And then you have recently

That guy, the Giants Josh Smith, Josh Brown. Yeah, the kicker who's, you know, just the serial abuser. And so when you find yourself overlooking the moral issues or defending even,

you know, these people, maybe you're invested too much into their talent. Yeah, which it is a talent. But if you overlook their humanity for the sake of that talent, I think there's an issue. And you become almost like you're losing personal relationships, because you're defending this actor, actress. You know, you're having arguments and things like that. One thing I always tell people, whenever we have conversations, especially my youth, because they talk about these, you know, actors and actresses, as if their family is I always tell them like, they don't know you. Yeah. And they're always like, Oh, it's a really it's a really Debbie Downer moment for them. Yeah.

But they'll be talking about who they like better with celebrities cooler, and they'll know everything about the celebrity and I'll have to sort of like, sober the conversation a little bit like, Kim Kardashian doesn't know who you are. Yeah. And they're just like, oh, and it doesn't, you know, well, she's a different story, but maybe somebody that's a little bit more wholesome in their in their fame, you know, doesn't mean you often it doesn't mean you can't like Tony Romo. Yeah. But when you start to defend him, and you get emotional and you get angry that he's not playing and you start to someone else likes Dak Prescott and you like Tony Romo. Now you hate each other because you

can't, that's when it's just too far. You got to turn off, turn it off. So we're going to be making draft for the cubs. challah rascal last month sort of doubled.

The bear.

I don't know how you say cubs like baby bear. I don't know. So May Allah give them victory? I mean, and also the bulls are three and Oh, they are what is this? This Frankenstein team with the rage on Rondo and Dwayne Wade and Robin Lopez, aka robots.

And they're just killing it right now. Jimmy Butler, three and Oh, they beat the Brooklyn Nets by 30. That's nice. So we're feeling good. Really? Yeah. That's, that's good. I'm happy for you. It's so patronizing. Anyways, Jeff Walker, shake. Thank you again. Thanks, everybody. Just keep tuning in. Share it with family and friends. Don't tell him what to do.

And make sure you subscribe. And while you're here, of course, you know, do whatever you're comfortable with. But do take a listen. You know, there's there's a lot of other stuff on here on the podcast from cedaw to, you know, lives at the profits with multi commodity and a whole bunch of other stuff. So maybe you find something that you can benefit from. Thank you so much. Again, remember every Thursday morning, come hang out with us.