Spending, Investing and Riba

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Aarij Anwer

Channel: Aarij Anwer

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thing, getting this going, but now we're good to go. inshallah, we'll be covering the topic of the of today of this halaqa. This lecture is to talk about responsible finance, and particularly finance, as it pertains to young professionals, as it is in the Quran. And specifically around the topics of spending, investing, and labor right? Now, these are all very, very nice topics. And you can spend a lot of time on each of them, you can spend a lot of time talking about spending spend a lot of time talking about how we are taught about investing,

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and, and so on and so forth.

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But I'll try to touch base on each of these points a little bit, and and then open up the floor for question answers. We are a little bit of in us, you know, logistical crunch, in the sense that Muslim is not too much after right now. So what we will do is, we're probably going to go for a little bit, then break from other and then come back and Sharla for any questions and answers. All right, let me get started. Firstly, about spending, right, so spending in the sense of you're spending on people, right, you're spending on people. And they're spending on yourself the question that's to be asked is, what is the financial liability? of a believer? Right? What is the financial

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liability of a believer? And is the financial liability of a believer different for a man?

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And as compared to a woman? Like, does the gender make it so that the financial liabilities are different? What do you think the answer is if you can type the answer? Yes or no? Is it different financial liabilities for men and women are different? Yes or no?

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Maybe you can mention something.

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So as I says, Yes, that is

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any any other thoughts? Anybody else? Yes?

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story.

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Haha. So it is, in fact different. Okay. The genders play a role in the financial responsibility, the liability that we carry. And we will talk a will look into this and shall not right now, I'll display my screen for you, inshallah. And let me know if you see it in Sharla.

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I'm showing you this document, this document was actually on the elements site, you could have access that there as well, if you wanted to. This is a document that I put together, speaking about the Quran that talks about financial liabilities about investing about Riba all that stuff, the first part of it we've covered before, so I'm not going to go through that again. But this second part we haven't done before. So I'm going to talk about that now in Sharla. The, the answer that question that asked about different different liabilities or different responsibilities for different genders? The answer actually is yes. islamically your gender plays a role in how you are

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held accountable for your money. Okay. And there is

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some evidence for that. Firstly, we speak about something that applies across the board to both genders. What applies to both genders is Allah swappa telling us well that the general Yakubu Latin Illa are no quick wallethub so pakula robust for de oro de maluma Massara be neither miserly nor so open handed, that you suffer reproach and become destitute. This ayah is giving us our spending policy in Islam, for both genders, you are supposed to spend, you are supposed to spend within a reasonable means spending on this, this spending is open ended, because you're spending on anything that is considered halaal unacceptable, all right. But you're supposed to spend in a manner that it

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doesn't become.

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It's rough, it's not something that you are wasting your wealth, right. You are, you know, giving it away. Basically, you're blowing it on things that you shouldn't be doing so right. That is called being

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extremely open handed. A lot of us to Taco Bell bus. And at the other end of the spectrum, don't be extremely miserly. Just hoarding, hoarding, hoarding, not even spending according to what's required according to what's nice. And that also is a bad mindset. The Quran says hybrid mode also to have the best path or the best course of action is the one that is balanced.

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This ayah gives us that balanced approach to spending. This applies By the way, brothers and sisters, to our spending when it comes to our purchases, right? What kind of car should I purchase? This is a good idea. It talks about that it applies to what kind of, for example,

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life lifestyle I want to live, right? This I, you know, applies to that it actually, you know, kind of is irrelevant of how much money you have, right? You're gonna have a lot of money and still live this life, still live this lifestyle, right?

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As long as that, you know that contentment can be found. And this is what the is saying that if you are going to earn on the edges of the spectrum, you are going to inevitably become either maluma or masculine maloom, you're going to be blameworthy. Right? If you are going to earn on the edge of being extremely miserly, not spending, you know, you know, Penny pinching, you're probably going to be blameworthy.

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And you're going to be trapped. Because the necessities that you want are not there. Maybe you missed on certain things that you you know, now regret missing on, right. So that is in that case, applicable. And on the flip side, if a person has spent too much of their wealth or squander too much of it, then same thing at apply maluma and Masuda they're blameworthy because they squandered their wealth. And Massoud again trapped because now they probably have to go and figure out a way to make their ends meet and whatnot. So the ayah it gives a very beautiful understanding about spending and that is a beautiful rule for us to follow this is irrespective of the gender okay? also very

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important is a Hadith of the Prophet SAW Selim. That says the in our own unfuck tahu visa vilella Medina Iran and Iraq aubertin Medina Rhonda Dr. V Allah miskeen in Medina rune and Fatah who Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah Allah, okay very beautiful Hadith, the prophet Sunnah saying he's giving you for spent four scenarios here. Okay, Dena rune. Scenario one dinar owns that scenario two dinar on three dinar on four. He's giving four examples of four scenarios. Which one is best? That's the question he wants to ask us. Okay. dinero number one, you spend for the sake of a lot, right? charity for the sake of Allah, you want nothing from it? All you want is some good is done to the

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for the Muslim community, some good as done, you know, at the masjid, whatever counts as the cause of God. Hmm. That's number one. Okay. Number two, is the narrow and softer hoof Hirakawa a well spent the freest leave. Number three, the narrowness of Dr. v. Allah miskeen. A well spent to help a poor person who needs help. Number four, the Narayan and Fatah who Allah lick a wealth that's spent on family. Which of these four is the best spending or best use of your money? What do you think people are jealous for? is the best use of your money?

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You can type in the chat? The answer also is there.

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It is the one on your family number four on the list. Yeah. Number four on the list the one you spend in your family, that is the one that has the most adger in the eyes of Allah subhanaw taala how incredible is that, that a person it's who takes care of their family gets more adjusted for doing that than if they were to take care of a poor person than if they were to, you know, set a person free by you know, buying their freedom from slavery, or if they were to spend it, you know, money in the cause of God, something that helps the religion of among all of these cases, the best case is taking care of your family and this is a hadith in Sahih Muslim, right. So again, the

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problem is giving us the Quran and the Sunnah, giving us the mindset of how we have to prioritize spending, our priorities and spending has to be number one, our obligatory financial liabilities. And on the top of that list, financial liabilities is your family. Your direct family.

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We are going to break from all of this it's time I'm not going to get Islamophobic Okay, how about we'll break at 730 Is that okay? Yes.

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All right.

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Okay, um, the law so yeah.

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Here's the thing you guys

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the most like the number one thing on the priority is our obligatory financial, financial liabilities, the people that we have to spend upon, okay.

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And thus who's on that list? That's the question, let's answer that quickly. Okay. And that question the answer to that differs from gender or gender for a man that will be the a person's ears and that his wife, okay, this is a position of the humbling school in the position of the chef at school, it is the parents children and wife camp and the medical position here is even more broad, which is male children until the rays reached reached the age of marriage, female children and to married and parents only if they are poor and wife, okay, so all three of the

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and I believe also that this is the shaft revolution is also the head of evolution as well as all of the schools of jurisprudence agree that for a man on

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the one hand, he is always financially liable for his wife, okay, he always has to ensure that he is taking care of her needs. This is something that comes you know, across the board, this is agreed upon, okay. And this is actually very interesting. If you look at the Quran, I'll show you an eye of the Quran that speaks about

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speaks about this topic, if you look at

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this,

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this is number 117 of the Quran from Surah excuse me, Iowan 17 of surah number 20. So it speaks about Adam and Islam. Right, Adam, Islam is a man of course, and his wife is how what, a last month acesta Adam, Adam, Satan's an enemy to you and your wife, let him not turn you both out of paradise. Hmm. Don't follow up Jenna Kumar, don't let him kick both of you out a paradise

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for Tasha. And thus you come to grief in the singular The idea being the well being of the family, the financial responsibility or liability of the family is on the shoulders of the man of the family, okay, and he has to make and then of course, on top of that list is his wife, and he has to ensure that her needs are taken care of. So spending wise, the most important, like the priority is obligatory financial liabilities. And number one on that list is the wife or something that is agreed upon between all of the schools of thought the the wife of a person is, you know, takes priority over everybody else. Now, this is important to you guys. A person is, you know, spending

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money frivolously Hmm, and neglecting the needs of his of his wife. She's living in a, you know, not a very pleasant life. Or maybe she's, you know, it's not a it's not a happy marriage. And it's exacerbated by the the good, common sense, spending the Quran and Sunnah encourage, that makes matters infinitely worse, that makes matters so much worse. So this is an important aspect for us to understand. Now, the orlimar differ after, after your wife, who else are you responsible for? So for example, the humbly say, all of your heirs, so that's your, you know, kids, your grandkids, they're your liability, you know, if you know, for example, you cannot if your kids can't take care of your

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grandkids, and you have to take care of them, okay, so they're pretty, like, you know, they're pretty precise about it.

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I like the Maliki position here, actually, even though I have studied humbling, and, you know, as my in university, and with my shape, but the I like the Maliki position, which is that male children until they reach the age of marriage, female children until they are married, and parents only have their poor. So what this means is the man is responsible for the wife fault at all times as long as they're married. Okay? for the kids, as long as the kids are, you know, adults, once the kids are adults, they're responsible for themselves, but the boy have the family the male child, when he is old enough, he's on his own, essentially, the girl she is on her own once she's married, okay. And

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the parents only if the parents are poor, then the man has to take care of them. So this is a you know, the spending priorities that the odema discussed in light of the Quran and Sunnah, as mentioned here, but number one, obviously is, you know, this is the

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Right, the best money you can spend is on your family. And who is it amongst your family? Who are you responsible for? Here? Is that list? What about a woman? is a woman responsible for spending on her husband? What do you think? Yes or no people? Is she?

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Like liable in the eyes of Allah? When I say liable? I mean this. A lot can ask that person on the Day of Judgment, why don't you spend money?

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When I say liable? That's what I mean. Okay, not is like, you know, like, in the eyes of the people in the eyes of Allah is a woman, can she be held responsible for not spending on her husband? Yes or No, I see a couple of noes. Any other thoughts?

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The correct answer is

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I need like a Duff roll here to

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the correct answer is no hamdulillah. Right. A woman is not liable. She will not be asked by Allah. Allah, whether she spent on her husband or not. Okay. The Quran says for internal accommodation. When tamala C'mon Shay, in mean who knows son for kulu Hania Maria Pei, this is from the very beginning of surah. Number four. So the nice Alex this maybe I to you, and this gives us the principle

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right here, right. But if they have their own accord, remit any part of it to you, then you may make use of it with pleasure and goodwill. This is specifically speaking about the dowry the mother, but also generally speaking about the wealth that the woman has. The wife hasn't in this relationship, it's hers to keep, if she remits it, she gives it out of her own accord, then that is actually an act of good as an act of worship for her. And then it's a good thing, and there's no problem. But in reality, she's not responsible for it. She's not questioned by Allah for it. And that's the key part. Financially liable. He questioned by Allah potentially questioned by Allah, possibly

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questioned by Allah. Right? Is she No, she isn't. All right. What about, you know, her kids? Huh? All right. So according to the school of Mr. Juan Ivana chair, only one opinion here because the others are more complex. And

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she's responsible for a sub spending on her kids.

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Only in the case if the husband passes away, right, or if the husband is poor, right. And this is I think, like a good middle ground. If, for example, the husband is, you know, he passes away, obviously, she is now going to take care of her family. And now she could be asked by Allah about this, or if the husband is poor, and you know, poor and let's, let's put it this way, not above.

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Right is not just like a deadbeat husband is trying but can do it can make it okay. In that case, and she has money, or she could earn, then yes. And, you know, according to Amanda hanifa, she should be spending on her husband.

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And also for her parents. Is it her responsibility? Well, if they're poor, she shares responsibility equally with the siblings. Because when it comes to parents, right, it's not only the responsibility of the the boys of the family, right?

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It is a according to Manuel hanifa is something that's a responsibility shared among the genders. But the qualifier that Mr. hanifa puts on this and Mr. Malik also is that if they are poor, right, so that is number one, about spending? Yes. priorities. What is it that we spend on number one, most importantly, this is the flyer, I'll show it to you again, right.

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Spending in Islam is according to the plan, so now, the golden rule is do not err on the side of extremes, be modest, and be balanced, number one, number two, the best money you can spend is the money you spend on your family.

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Number three, who is your family priorities is given to a person's for for men, the priority is given to his wife, and then kids for a woman, she actually does not have a liability in the eyes of a law towards anybody. It is hers to keep. And at the same time, you know, the responsibility is shared in certain cases where you are,

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you know, if like, you know, the husband passes away, or the parents are poor, and so on and so forth. Okay.

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Also in this list is of course, you know, spending priorities Zakat is next, after you've taken care of your family provided for them taking care of family means food, water, shelter necessities of life, the scholars in the past would say, you know, the husband has to provide a maid

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you know, not today, Brother, please, please, we can't do that you can barely make rent here.

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But back in the day, they would say that right? allowance for medicine and books. So they give according to like every, like, you know, school of thought gives like a set of opinions based on the time and place in reality, the Quran Sunnah does not restrict it, it leaves the matter in the hands of the people, whatever is acceptable, whatever is, you know, common sense, right? what's called a lot.

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So that is the obligatory spending. Also chairs the cat is the next on the list. You have to appear as a cat, you can be like, pledging money in the masjid. Or pledging money for causes saying, Yeah, I'll donate but, you know, you neglect to use a carton as a cat comes first. Next on that is philanthropy. It's a sought after of

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optional philanthropy. That is something you do but as you see, that should not compromise the ones above it should not compromise a person's a god, it shouldn't definitely not compromise their financial liabilities that they are, you know, that's obligatory for them cannot do that. Yes. So this is how the Quran and Sunnah is offers. And at the end of it all comes saving and investing. All right, we are in the time of mclubbe. Right now, what I'll do is, so there's a lot of information out here which I won't get into the color bookshop is a different thing. I will touch upon a little bit about soccer. If you give me a few moments, I do want to touch a little bit about investing. And

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then after MacKillop, I'll talk a lot about a rebel Mashallah.

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Okay, so South Africa, of course, is amazing South Africa, but Southern member list on of priorities is number three. What does the Quran say about sonica Allah for

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whatever is surplus to your needs, that is what you spend in South Africa. That is a key part a lot of food is like,

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you know, they would say is like my Fabiola middle bomb, for example, like leftover food you ate your full Alhamdulillah. Now there is leftovers. That's what the old Arabs would say is awful. Now Subhana Allah, that is the mindset that you're supposed to have for sada you are, you know, eating, you take care of your needs, and your full Alhamdulilah. And everybody around you, their family is full. Now what's left, you can give from that for soda. And that is a beautiful way of thinking about sort of why this is important, you guys, because oftentimes, we are

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put in compromising situations by unfortunately, Islamic institutions, asking for money, almost, you know, coalescing money out of us. And, you know, frankly speaking, the Quran and Sunnah are very clear on the matter that sadaqa is given from what is except what's what's left over what's surplus. Now, should you give as much as you can? Yes. But from the surplus, should you ensure that the money you've given is not compromising the well being of your family, and is not affecting as a cat demons? Yes, because those are more important.

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And keep in mind, the best money like the Hadith that we studied before, is the money you spend on your family. So this is how the Quran teaches is balanced approach. And quite often, like I see this imbalance in the way funds are raised and massaged, and whatnot, right?

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Where you're kind of just like asked to be reckless, just give brother just give jhala we'll be okay, sure, a lot smarter isn't reserved. But keep in mind, a lot funds also says spend from the surplus, right? spend in a balanced way don't spend in a way where you're excessive or miserly. So all the ideas have to be considered together. So that is spending also like to highlight to you about spending is spending should be given right, like South Africa is to be given to

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it's a beautiful thing, the one who gives it despite love for it. They give it away to their relatives, to orphans, to the very poor, to the travelers, to those who ask for charity to set slaves free. Right? It is given to people in need, and even in the people of need. A last motto says start with your family. Start with your family. That is a beautiful thing about our religion, that it encourages us to take care of family

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Even when or even if family doesn't take care of us, this is a very beautiful, very empowering thing. We don't cut off our ties of family, just because of disagreements.

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They are blood. Allah has joined us by blood, and we take care of that. So even when spending at a surplus, top of the list a lot of what's your relatives, and I think it is worth us for us to ponder and reflect on that. Okay. And of course spending in the sacred for the sake of Allah is such an important thing that Allah says you really cannot attain the peak of righteousness until you're able to do so right to let go of the thing you love the most for the sake of a lot only then you attain righteousness and that is that all right now also about

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me, okay, we're let's talk about actually investing and rubber after after sell automotive is that Okay, brother, sister hazard? I'll answer your question afterwards. That's all right. Yes, inshallah, but what we're gonna do is I'm gonna pause the I'm gonna I'm gonna turn off my camera, and my microphone, but, but I'm gonna leave the screenshare on inshallah. And then we will come back for it sounds good. People say yes or no?

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blank ones if you're alive.

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All right, thank you very much. Okay, so we're gonna take a break. And I will We'll be right back. All right, in sha Allah. Does our como la Hi, Ron, I will see you all shortly.

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Let's get back to discussing in sha Allah, the idea now of saving, investing and accumulating wealth. Okay. And obviously related to that we'll come to the idea of Riba right, interest. Very, very important topic. I'll do the question and answers all together at the end, if that's alright, with the people. Okay. So

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here we are talking about saving, investing and accumulating wealth. The question that I want to ask you all right, the question I want to ask you is, is money evil?

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So, not a rhetorical question. I'm

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serious about that question actually. Is money, evil? What do people think? Yes or no?

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Answer, of course, is no, we don't consider money to be inherently evil. Okay.

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Can money be used for evil?

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Right? Can money also be used for good? Of course, yes. This is a key part of our understanding. We don't consider wealth, luxury as good or bad in its own right. We don't consider or we don't think that when we have a you know, a nice life. That is a lot of liking us. Or if you don't have a nice life. That's a lot hating us. Our financial circumstances have nothing to do with our relationship with the last month alone. That's the key part about Islam. a supercharger so to further you know, sort of budget right? Allah spotless says in sutra fudger, amending Zanu pf is Amata boo boo, Rama who wanna Rama who fire who knew what, fire poo Laura be a corral money. When you read it, you know,

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for Quran you stop an acraman like that. I'll show you the eye in a sec here.

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When his Lord tests him, through honor and blessings, he says, My Lord has honored me.

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Well, I'm in San with Mr. de la hora, boo, but when he tests him by straightening his means of livelihood, restricting the means of livelihood. He says, Well hold or be a hand nanny. My Lord has disgraced me.

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This is actually not how we're supposed to look at wealth is not how we're supposed to look at

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our financial standing. It has nothing to do with our relationship with Allah, Allah. Okay. And thus, the things that are you know, part of our financial well being money, assets, etc. are not good or evil inherently.

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You see the wasp says here is the

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Mbit Allahu, Allahu Allah who we consider both, when Allah gives a test, and unlock takes away a test, we consider both of those to be tests. Test same by straightening tests him by giving.

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And giving doesn't mean that Allah has honored and taking away doesn't mean that Allah has humiliated. It says it you know, this is not sports. This is not like you know, a zero sum game. Both of those are tests. Both of those are tests. What we are taught is when you are given, it's a test of thankfulness. When you're when something is taken away, the test of patience, it's a test of your graciousness. How gracious, are you? Hmm, how emotional are you? All of those things get tested, when something is restricted. So that is what we consider, right? It is not obviously evil. And accumulating wealth isn't then de facto sinful. The problem becomes if accumulating wealth turns

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into what an obsession

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and you start to consider that accumulation. Or that accumulation starts to have an effect on the way you view the world. What does that mean? What Guna terrassa UCLA Lama to him Boonen mala hemangioma, and you love you have a love of wealth, which can never be satisfied. That's where the problem lies in accumulation where it becomes like you it becomes

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just a thirst that is unquenchable.

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an appetite that can never be satisfied, been jamaa, that is when accumulating wealth becomes sinful. But if a person is to accumulate wealth, and they are giving sadaqa and excuse me, they're giving Zakat accumulating wealth while giving Zakat on the world that is in no way sinful. That is not sinful in any way, shape, or form will have the bladder actually, you know, in the clear.

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And, you know, I wanted to point out here that there's a word the, you know, in the transition, you say, they ask you what they should give, say, whatever you give, should be for parents, right? Give that word give mean hiding in Arabic in the Quran is Hayden here in this text that says Hayden the ayah means wealth. So in case the word itself means goodness. So here, what's interesting is a lot of authors saying that wealth when you're spending it in the right place, wealth in the right hands, is higher is goodness, hmm. wealth, in the right hands, is goodness. So that is why we're encouraged to save. And we're encouraged to invest, to grow our savings, because in the hands of a good person,

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in the hands of a righteous person, that wealth is high that wealth is a source of, of goodness, okay? Now,

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being rich is a mindset. You know, money is the word in Arabic for rich.

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But Ronnie is also someone who is in fact in reality, free from want one of the names of Allah, Allah is Allah Ronnie, the one who is free from all needs completely self sufficient. So here for us in Islam, we're taught that wealth and being wealthy isn't about your bank balance is actually a mindset. You know, you're you're you're one who

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isn't shackled. By

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by the level of wealth, you're not judging your value by your net worth, your contribution to society isn't by judged by how much money you make. No, that's part of who you are. That's not who you are. Rena, and avani is somebody who is free from what is sufficient. In other words, relying to the last part Allah and happy with what Allah has given. The problem has said they Selena and Casa de la alakina, Lavina Venus, the person said that well isn't having a lot of possessions, rather, wealth is being content. So this is a beautiful thing for us to consider. Now.

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I wrote down some wealthy companions, you know, I was aware of now one had an inheritance of 40 million 40 million to 50 million. Probably did hum silver coins, right, which works out to about $59 million USD. Okay, in today's terms that was in the head

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And that's what he left when he passed away. So bear is one of the top 10 companions and many others like him an old friend of mine, I'm not fun, extremely wealthy,

00:35:10--> 00:35:34

lived wealthy died wealthy and or the best of the people of the Sahaba clearly showing that accumulating wealth is not a problem. The problem is not in accumulating wealth and problem is not in saving wealth. The problem is when you get attached to it, the love of it is, you know, just unquenchable. That is when it becomes a problematic situation. Okay, so that is

00:35:35--> 00:36:17

a word or two on saving and accumulating. What about investing? Right? What does that tell us something about investing? Does the Quran say something about investing? Should we invest in unrest? Can I just keep my money under my pillow? Okay, a pillow or something under my mattress, you know? What should I do? Well, the problem is some says in a, in an authentic narration that Allah Manuel de demon, lo Merlin, for liturgy fee. Well, I took who had that the akula, who sort of the legal guardian of an orphan should invest the orphans inheritance, lest it's consumed as the cat payments. I'm going to break this down for you. Okay, I want you to pay attention to me. Okay, so

00:36:20--> 00:36:27

I am on Walia. tieman Okay, a team is what an adult or a child Tell me people, adult or child.

00:36:30--> 00:36:31

A team is a

00:36:33--> 00:36:36

child correct? Is this child?

00:36:37--> 00:36:39

Is this child that is an orphan?

00:36:41--> 00:36:47

Evil too Can you hand over the inheritance of this child to this child?

00:36:49--> 00:37:05

Like here like, hey, Abdullah in grade four, here is a million dollars your dad left you this is your God given right? your inheritance, right your inheritance is your God given right? Have the law Haridas Can you give that to like nine year old Abdullah?

00:37:06--> 00:37:09

Or 10 year old Fatima Islamic? Is that allowed?

00:37:13--> 00:37:14

That's our No.

00:37:20--> 00:37:31

In fact, the answer is no. You cannot give the orphans wealth to the orphan until the orphan has grown up. Okay. Once the orphan grows up,

00:37:32--> 00:37:46

grows up is also something that is a topic of discussion but once they have grown up, that is when they inherit their wealth. As a child, they don't inherit their wealth, who keeps who gets to keep their wealth?

00:37:48--> 00:37:49

We think

00:37:53--> 00:38:36

the Guardian excellent does aquilo hidden The Guardian while he has the worry, the worry the Guardian is generally a family member. Okay. The Quran by the way warns very significantly about consuming the wealth of an orphan By the way, okay, you know why the Quran does so. I mean, of course Allah knows all the wisdom behind it. But one of the reasons one of the chief reasons why the Quran is so particular about the orphans money, right? Firstly, it says keep a close check on the orphans till they attain the age of marriage, that is when they're old enough. And then when you find them to be mature of mature mind, key point, right? And so many Rushden there, you know, a

00:38:36--> 00:39:20

mature mind, then you give them their property hand over their property to them, right? This, you know, 19 year old is not maybe he's a mature, you know, young man or young woman, okay? But maybe he's, uh, you know, he's a bum. So he gave him his million dollar inheritance. And he goes, and he blows it on, like, you know, some random car. Okay, that now actually, the fault of that is actually the Guardian, The Guardian needs to check on the, on the maturity of this of this individual. Right? It's the responsibility of the guardian. The Guardian is also told in Medina, Hakuna Amala Tama lumen, those who consume the property of the orphans unjustly are actually swallowing fire into

00:39:20--> 00:39:59

their bellies. And soon they will burn in the blazing flame, that this is a scary image, there's fire on the inside, the money you're consuming. It's like a piece of the fire of hell you're consuming, and then there's fire on the outside that you will be burned in. That's a very scary scene. Why is this all the threat so devastating? Because an orphan is like the uncle assuming the Guardian is like the uncle. The Guardian is like a close relative, someone who could always say I'm doing it for the best interest of the child, and nobody really can dispute him on that. Right? So it's very easy for this person and adult

00:40:00--> 00:40:51

with power and leverage to exploit the child and his money, or her money, and that is why the, the orphans Guardian, has been warned so severely, and the responsibility on the shoulders is so grave, you have to make sure you're just you have to make sure when you hand over the money to the orphan, the orphan is, you know, of mature mind, this is a responsibility unlike basically any other responsibility as a very heavy responsibility. Now, part of their responsibility is what part of their responsibility is to make sure that the inheritance of this child while you're waiting to give it to the child while you're waiting for the child to grow up, does not reduce in value, how can I

00:40:51--> 00:40:58

get reduced in value? How can money sitting around getting reduced in value? What this two ways number one, as you might know,

00:41:01--> 00:41:18

inflation very good. Inflation is going to eat away on that wealth. Right. And number two, as well, the other thing is zakat. Hmm, all right. Imagine a child had an inheritance of $100,000 a year one 2.5% if it's gone. Okay, so

00:41:19--> 00:41:20

where's my calculator?

00:41:23--> 00:41:28

$100,000 worth of inheritance. Year One, it is now

00:41:29--> 00:41:33

97,500. year two, it is now

00:41:34--> 00:41:36

95 Oh, sorry.

00:41:41--> 00:41:42

year two, it is now

00:41:44--> 00:42:38

95,000, gay, a year three, it is 92,000 and so on and so forth. By the time the child is mature, it's lost so much of its value, right? Yes or no? That is ignoring the inflation. Imagine if you add inflation to this is a double whammy. Now this child is losing a lot of his inheritance or her inheritance before they even grew up along with Stein. Okay. So the profits are some is saying he is saying that the orphans Guardian should invest the orphans inheritance less it's consumed as a car payments. And this idea this principle applies to all of us as well. We should invest our savings as well. It's encouraged because if you don't the same thing that is eating away on the orphans

00:42:39--> 00:42:43

inheritance was going to eat away at your savings. inflation's I got yes or no.

00:42:45--> 00:42:46

Good vivo.

00:42:48--> 00:43:08

Likewise, the prophet said in the Quran, Tarawa Alinea, a ruminant other Omar Allah Tanaka, funan us your money that you're saving, guess what? It's going to be the inheritance of your children. In no way the money you're saving and investing is you're taking care of the inheritance of your own kids.

00:43:10--> 00:43:50

You will leave in your heirs wealthy is better than you leaving them poor dependent on people. So it is extremely, extremely encouraged to save and invest because you are saving and investing for your own your kids, you're saving for them. It's like you're the guardian of their wealth. Right? That is how we're taught to think about and live our lives. So think about that for a minute. Yeah, that is why it is encouraged. But now we have to do this in a halal way. So what is what is the mean last topic that we are discussing today is what is the main thing that affects the

00:43:51--> 00:43:52

the

00:43:53--> 00:43:56

compliance, the Sharia compliance of investing?

00:43:58--> 00:43:59

Or transactions?

00:44:00--> 00:44:02

The main thing is

00:44:03--> 00:44:05

river right there.

00:44:06--> 00:44:09

I dramatically zoomed in at the right time under the law and labor.

00:44:11--> 00:44:36

There's actually a few items that affect the validity of contracts, financial contracts, there is for example, ambiguity that is too much. Too much ambiguity too much speculation affects the validity of contracts in Islam. Okay. For example, I'd say you know what, I'm going to sell you the bird in the sky.

00:44:37--> 00:44:47

Is that acceptable? The transaction in Islam, so Riba not boring. Anything is acceptable, yes or no? Like give me $100 I want to tell you that birds in the sky

00:44:49--> 00:44:51

is acceptable, yes or no?

00:44:55--> 00:44:59

No, assuming even if I have to assume like I'm like LeBron James.

00:45:00--> 00:45:01

Like bird catchers, okay.

00:45:03--> 00:45:46

Assume that. Can I still do this? Oh, yeah. Give me $100 you know, for that bird in the sky for a bird in the sky? No, you can't. It's only when I have caught the bird. I'm lucky. Here's your bird, give me $100 is he or, or fish, for example, same idea applies. It's too open ended the ambiguity is too much. The scope for exploitation is too much. That's the key part. That's called a lot of in Islamic. It's a very simple example that I'm trying to give you. There are certain exceptions, obviously, for example, farmers can take money before their produce ripens. Because if they were to only you know, cash out when their produce ripens, then how can they actually invest in their land

00:45:47--> 00:45:56

and produce anything for the next year? Right? It's gonna make things very difficult for them. So farmers have exceptions, primary producers have something of exceptions in the Sharia, right.

00:45:57--> 00:46:12

So those exceptions are always there. those details are there. I'm just giving you a very simple basic example of too much uncertainty making something impermissible. The other thing is Riba right, I never get what is a Riba?

00:46:13--> 00:46:20

The word river linguistically actually means means what? Do you know what does anybody know what river means linguistically?

00:46:25--> 00:46:28

It actually means for something to grow,

00:46:29--> 00:46:30

something to grow.

00:46:32--> 00:46:50

That is what the word Riba linguistically means. Now, what is interesting is a river is called as such interest and user user is the old school term for it. That's the biblical word for it usury. It's actually Haram in the Bible to By the way, okay.

00:46:51--> 00:47:15

The modern day usage of his interest like in like, in Christian circles, the way they have justified it for themselves is that they say, Well, you know, 20% interest or 50% interest or that's usury but 30% interest from a bank, that's not usually that's just interest, that's how they're basically afraid from themselves and not you know, at least a segment of them.

00:47:16--> 00:47:36

For us, remember the rule is given to us with the promise of them the rule is gooloo, deignan, jarana fine for whatever every loan transaction that brings back benefit that earns you any privileges, that is it above

00:47:37--> 00:47:46

any loan transaction that earns you privileges is a Riba. So for example, I give sabotage alone. Okay. And then,

00:47:48--> 00:47:51

you know, I tell sometimes Hazel Dodge,

00:47:53--> 00:48:06

as part of this loan agreement, yeah, I don't want your money. Like don't give me more money than what we have agreed on. Right. But I want you to always make sure that I am the Hatim for the MSA.

00:48:07--> 00:48:07

Okay.

00:48:09--> 00:48:14

Is that a type of benefit that I have acquired from this loan that I've given?

00:48:16--> 00:48:45

Yes. It's not monetary, but it's a benefit. It's something that I have. It's a privilege that I've acquired, because I'm in the position of having leverage. So you can't ask for anything more than what you receive. Now, if sartaj I say I loaned him $1,000. Okay. He gives me an excess of touch. You have to give me $1,000. And, and one cent? Is that one cent river?

00:48:48--> 00:48:57

It is River. It? What if septage? I didn't say it is stipulated in the contract. But he's a good guy. Mashallah. So I say here's his daughter's load.

00:48:58--> 00:49:06

And he comes back and he says, there's lots of affair. Here's your $1,000 back. And here's $100. A gift from me. Is that rubber?

00:49:09--> 00:49:49

That's not rubber, right? Because that is a person doing it out of their own choice. They were not compelled. They were not handcuffed in that contract. They were doing it out of their own choice. So that's the basic idea of Riba that it is to be anything that is beneficial any privilege that's acquired because of giving a loan to somebody that is Riba monetary or otherwise, okay. That is that now, let us consider let us consider thing, inflation will come to the Father in a sec. Let us consider something that the Quran says.

00:49:51--> 00:49:52

Which is

00:49:55--> 00:50:00

for DC buying and selling the buying and selling is only it

00:50:00--> 00:50:12

Kind of usury it's only type of interests. Okay. What I love will be what how do I mareeba this is a very critical eye or this part of the eye is very critical. Hmm.

00:50:14--> 00:50:20

God has made trade lawful and made Riba interest unlawful.

00:50:21--> 00:50:27

Okay. So this is our principle when it comes to Islamic transactions,

00:50:28--> 00:50:48

anything and if you give money as a loan, you can expect anything from it. If you are partnering in a deal is a purchase agreement, then you can make money from it. Are you clear on this loans, no money to be made.

00:50:50--> 00:51:20

Purchasing or buying and selling money can be made from it. Right? In fact, islamically there's three types of contracts. All contracts come into three categories, loan contract or debt contract, a lease contract, and a trade in a loan contract, you cannot make any money because it is supposed to be only for the sake of helping that person and any other benefits are considered to be

00:51:21--> 00:51:40

considered to be Riba and you could actually say, Okay, I have to wire you money, and it'll cost me $30. So, give me that $30. That's not a problem. Any fees or expenses you incur? We'll talk about inflation a little bit, okay. But anything on top, that you stipulate any benefit completely out of bounds, that's loans, okay. Number two

00:51:42--> 00:52:29

lease contracts, you can make money through leasing or renting, right, there's something the acceptable hamdulillah and there is no problem with that. And of course, third one is selling something you're not, you know, someone the person is not purchasing a service or renting a home or renting a car from you know, they're actually acquiring that asset from you from that as well you can make money by selling. So those two things is where there is the opportunity to make profit in loans, there is no profit that is considered to be Riba. Okay, let's give a simple example. They say I want to purchase a car that is $10,000. Right? Now I go to the bank, and I say, loan me $10,000.

00:52:29--> 00:52:35

And they give me the $10,000 or just as a simple, you know, 10% interest rate, okay?

00:52:36--> 00:53:02

And this again, I'm not compounding or anything very simple, not compounded 10% interest rate. So, how much do I owe them? At the end of my term? I owe them $11,000. Okay, the $1,000 of interest and then 10,000 as principal, all right, that is Riba because it's a loan contract. But now assume I went to a person, okay.

00:53:03--> 00:53:55

And I said, Look, I want you to purchase this car for me. Let's do it in it as a Islamic transaction. Alright, let's do it. So he says, You know what, I want to make $1,000 from this transaction. Alright. So I'm going to buy the car for $10,000 which is the price I'm gonna buy it in cash. Okay, and I'm going to sell the car to you for $11,000 and you pay this because you are paying me over time. I am going to stipulate that you know, I you buy it for 11,000. And, and then the monthly payments, we can make a schedule for it. So I bought it for 10. I sold it to this person for 11,000. And they pay me monthly payments to purchase from me. Okay. It's a it's a it's a trade. It's

00:53:55--> 00:54:01

a purchase agreement. I made $1,000 is that Riba? Yes or no?

00:54:07--> 00:54:08

It says example River.

00:54:13--> 00:54:26

Ah, you said technically No, but I don't see the difference. Hmm. Okay. The difference is in the first example. See what's the same the same is the money I made.

00:54:27--> 00:54:35

loaning with interest is $1,000. Buying a commodity and selling it for a higher price is a

00:54:36--> 00:54:43

you know the same thing, right? It's, I make $1,000 on it. So there is no difference in the amount of money I made yes or no people.

00:54:45--> 00:54:56

Yes. But is there a difference? Is there a difference in the nature of the contract?

00:54:57--> 00:54:59

Yes. Is the difference

00:55:00--> 00:55:07

The first contract is a loan contract, I gave money, and I'm making money on money.

00:55:08--> 00:55:16

The other one, I have acquired an asset, sold that asset to you and made money from that transaction.

00:55:17--> 00:55:28

And that is where my profit lies. Now, what does it What's the difference? Okay, if I have loaned you money, liability is on your head,

00:55:29--> 00:55:34

right? liability is almost entirely if not entirely on your head.

00:55:35--> 00:55:48

Whereas if I have purchased the asset in the trade, I am partnering in some of the liability. Right, I have skin in the game, that's more than what I would have if I was to just loan you money.

00:55:50--> 00:56:00

That, and this is a very simple example. Right? I'm trying to simplify it. But that's fundamentally the difference between debt contracts and purchase agreements,

00:56:01--> 00:56:09

where in a purchase agreement in a commodity that's being sold, the both parties have something at stake,

00:56:10--> 00:56:16

the risk is shared, the rewards are shared, maybe there's more reward on one party less than the other.

00:56:17--> 00:56:30

But you know, there's there's some, some level of partnership, whereas for a loan, the person who's taking the loan is on the hook.

00:56:32--> 00:57:00

And that is, actually the problem is with the system. It's not just like one or two transactions. This making this systemic, as you can see, leads to the gross inequality of wealth, gross inequality of wealth, where the one who has money can make a lot of money, compounding, compounding, and I want to will pour has to keep like is like climbing uphill, maybe you'll make it to the top of the hill. Right? he slips though he falls all the way down.

00:57:02--> 00:57:04

Right? It's a very unfair game.

00:57:05--> 00:57:35

And all of the shadows that Allah sent all revelation have warned against it explicitly because it is exploitative. Right? The Shadow era warns against things that are exploitative, whether that is an uncle exploiting his, his nephew, who's an orphan, or whether it is a big bank exploiting a whole economy, it doesn't matter exploitation is going to cause problems because power and leverage when they are

00:57:37--> 00:57:38

when they are concentrated.

00:57:40--> 00:57:47

Cause a lack of accountability and cause more problems, you see. So

00:57:49--> 00:58:15

like, I think Adam Smith says is that the concept of power leads to the concentration of concentrated wealth, sorry, this is a constitutional power. And then that leads to more concentration of wealth, which leads to more constitutional power, and so on. So for the sake of perpetuates, and it's almost like the person becomes too big to fail to, like just above all laws and regulations. And to nip that in the bud. These rules have been set by the Sharia.

00:58:16--> 00:58:51

So a simple example. There's a lot more obviously to discuss in this, but I wanted to share that with you. The Quran speaks explicitly about making money to trade, but don't make money through loans. What does that look like for us, for example, you can invest in stocks, stocks are by and large, they are purchasing a commodity, you're purchasing a piece of a company. Whereas if I was to purchase a gic product, a bond that is a loan, if I was to purchase if I was to short a stock, right, now I have a board.

00:58:52--> 00:59:39

And then I will sell at a price that you know, makes sense for me. Those kind of transactions are unacceptable, but in making money through investments are as fine halala mortgages. Yes, that's the basic premise behind Hello mortgages. It takes the contract from being a debt contract and makes it into a purchase trade contract. That's the idea there as well. In both cases, you can make money me money is not the problem, right? Because the law says What a hell a law will be. Well, however, mareeba Allah has made trade lawful, making money is not a problem. The problem is a robot which exploitative puts the little man under the pump under the thumb of the big guy, right. So that folks

00:59:39--> 00:59:45

is the basic ideas gela we can open up the floor to questions, be the light on

00:59:46--> 00:59:59

and I'm actually going to turn off the Facebook feed. I'll keep the questions for the zoom, call, inshallah. For those who tuned into the Facebook Live, but if you'd like to join the QA, I'd like you to please come join the zoom, call in

01:00:00--> 01:00:00

Allah wa

01:00:02--> 01:00:04

salam aleikum questions, let's take them.

01:00:06--> 01:00:24

Some people say we shouldn't pay to Zakat because we also pay taxes to the Canadian government. And that during the time the person they when they pay zakat, this wasn't the case. How would you reply to them that we need a visa card? And in the same month? Okay, so that's a very gross misunderstanding of what that is, and what is, you know, taxes?

01:00:26--> 01:00:26

So,

01:00:28--> 01:00:36

fundamentally, what do you pay your taxes on? The taxes are on, on what people your income or your net worth?

01:00:38--> 01:00:39

I hope you file your taxes.

01:00:42--> 01:00:53

So your income Yes, hamdulillah? What is the cat on? Is it on your income or your net worth? The savings you have? So never fundamentally it's a different transaction. Right?

01:00:54--> 01:01:00

So it is not the same in any way. Both are useful the same purpose in what we have such

01:01:03--> 01:01:05

functioning of state and social service. Okay.

01:01:06--> 01:01:14

Here's a key difference that God isn't actually supposed to be used for the functioning of the state.

01:01:16--> 01:01:36

The cat is actually supposed to be used for very specific categories, the poor, for our Misaki and those who are employed to administers a cat, I mean, in LA for those who are new Muslims on my left the Google Home, those who are slaves or who are in prison,

01:01:37--> 01:01:39

those who are in debt.

01:01:40--> 01:02:06

Those who are voluntary fighters, for the Muslim army, not does not the army that state funding, the volunteers who join, because there's a need or something, okay? And temporarily, someone who's lost their wealth, very specific categories. Right. So the cat isn't meant to be just like, taxes can be used for anything. The cat actually isn't supposed to be used for that.

01:02:09--> 01:03:05

Zakat is used for very specific causes. Now, the the the, the Muslims did have taxes, right? They would pay a tax on for example, the, the, the money acquired as a result of a conquest. As an example, that was subject to a tax that wasn't that certain, you know, Muslim rulers after the whole of Russia, Russia were different in the sense that they didn't really need to do it. But after the whole of Russia do they were Muslim rulers who enforced taxes to cover expenses and that was such a completely fine as long as they are not prohibitive or exploitative. You see, Zakat is meant fundamentally to eradicate poverty, that's the fundamental users have got anything else is

01:03:05--> 01:03:08

secondary. Right?

01:03:09--> 01:03:52

Now, the state can administer that, or an individual can administer that that's not a problem idealist the state doesn't. But its fundamental purposes, different taxes are used for building an economy building systems building, you know, like massagin, or building schools, etc. Right building infrastructure, you can do that using zakat. Only times a capital is used for that was when there was literally nobody who would was eligible to receive the cat because priority was eradicated in the time of war. And the time of the abdulazeez instances in history where there was nobody was a fair recipient of Zakat also later on, and like certain other philosophers, they had a situation

01:03:52--> 01:04:13

where there was like, nobody was eligible for zakat. Everybody was rich enough that they didn't receive it. So then the Khalifa would use it for those kinds of projects. Follow on right on Zakat is only paid on assets that are are accessible. Right?

01:04:15--> 01:04:29

only accessible assets his account is paid off. All right. So for example, you say I own a company that has private shares, for example, and you can sell this year, that's not necessarily the capital until you're able to cash out the shares. What about Say for example,

01:04:30--> 01:04:37

my rsps you know, are locked in retirement funds. I don't have access to it. I don't use like a

01:04:38--> 01:04:52

TFSA is I have full access to it. So I will pay zakat on. See that's the difference. First, I got a sister had you had a question with a sister Roger had a question. By the way. You guys can unmute yourself. Yeah, yeah.

01:04:53--> 01:04:56

She said before was it

01:05:00--> 01:05:02

Brother ever responsible for the sister.

01:05:03--> 01:05:06

So the brother and sister

01:05:07--> 01:05:55

the responsibility will extend to the brother right, for example, for taking care of the sister, if the same stipulations apply that apply to the parents, the sisters poor, and she no one's taking care of her, she can't take care of herself, then that falls on her nearest relatives. And then there is relatives is actually not just the brother, it's actually all siblings that are near to her. Right? So the same if that sister becomes like, the parent of the family, in the sense that poor and unable to work and completely dependent, then the siblings, all of them share a responsibility to support their sister. Okay, you mentioned we're paying for a car or house on a

01:05:55--> 01:06:05

monthly basis. You can, can you? How can you tell the difference between whether it is financed or interest? Whether it is let's say whether it's profit or interest? It goes?

01:06:06--> 01:06:26

I think system or whether Is that right? Right, Nevada, or Nevada? I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Okay. It goes back to the terms of the contract. Right, and the nature of the contract. Is it a debt contract? Is it a loan? If that's the case, and it's interest? Is it a trade?

01:06:27--> 01:07:01

It's a trade, that it's not interest, sometimes the lines are blurred? Frankly, speaking, like, We're living in a world where the engine that powers the world economy is interest. So the lines are often blurred. And it's actually sometimes quite difficult to like, say, Well, this is really interesting profit, like, how do you discern that? Right? And those are complex cases? I'll give you a simple example. Right? But it short answer, it goes back to the nature of the contract. Well, a lot of money you're saving for a specific purpose, like saving up for a house? Would you base that on an excellent question? So

01:07:02--> 01:07:09

if you have, say, you know, you guys, no new builds, right, like a new build that a builder is building? Yes.

01:07:10--> 01:07:12

People know what that is.

01:07:14--> 01:07:15

Yes or no.

01:07:16--> 01:07:17

I want to assume

01:07:18--> 01:07:38

a new build that our builder is making? Yes, great. hamdulillah. Generally, the way it works is this, you say? Yeah, I want to buy this house to like, yes, it gives us you know, 5%. And then your closing of the house is one year down the road, right? One year, nine months, whatever, right?

01:07:39--> 01:07:39

Are you with me people?

01:07:41--> 01:07:54

If you have signed an agreement like that with a builder, yes, I will purchase this house from you. And that builders house, the house could be one year, two years, whatever, but you sign the agreement, you paid your money to the builder,

01:07:55--> 01:08:00

then whatever money you have saved up, there is no Zakat on it. Do you know why?

01:08:03--> 01:08:11

Because it is you've committed that money in the future towards something. It's as if the money is not even there.

01:08:12--> 01:08:36

You see, it's as if that money isn't there, because you committed it in the future. But the commitment is a firm commitment. You signed the contract, you made the down payment. Now just waiting for the closing. If it's just I'm saving money to buy a house eventually, I don't really have like an agreement that I signed, then that money that you're saving, yes, you have to base account on it. Because you haven't committed to anything. That makes sense, john?

01:08:41--> 01:09:09

What about counting inflation? Thank you. Well, Khalid, inflation is a tricky matter. And I actually don't like feel qualified enough to like give a very good answer. I asked this question actually have shipped solid, solid wood was the head of imja and jersey association of Muslim jurists of America, and they were discussing this in one of the conferences. And Sheikh Salas suggestion is not mine, I can't actually speak of it, but like,

01:09:11--> 01:09:13

you know, like, something I can't like,

01:09:16--> 01:09:44

see that this is what we should do. And this is the way forward is this something should follow him and I asked him, that's what he told me that costs of inflation should be shared by both parties. So for example, $10,000 is loaned by time you return the 10,000 is actual value is 9000. Right? Because inflation has, has devalued that currency to the point where it's only worth $9,000. Right.

01:09:46--> 01:09:59

Now, the $1,000 loss should be shared by both the parties, the one who took the loan and the one who gave the vote that will shift law's opinion, is there. a possibility that you can put that off entirely on the person

01:10:00--> 01:10:05

On the on the shoulders of the person who is who is the

01:10:07--> 01:10:35

the debtor, the one who's taking the loan? Yeah, that's a possibility. These are discussions in like, a more advanced discussion is Islamic finance. I can tell you, brother, sister hazard, I can't like endorsement of dispositions right now, because I'm not at that level, right? I'm just sharing with you. What, you know, someone like shala has said, this is a very specific question. And it should go to like the experts in the field. And there is, you know, scope for discussion.

01:10:36--> 01:10:37

Does that make sense?

01:10:39--> 01:10:40

Like, this is something that I can just, like,

01:10:42--> 01:10:49

give you my opinion on the matter, because it's a it's a it's a, it's a complex and involved matter. Yeah.

01:10:52--> 01:11:31

inshallah, it'll inflation. This is a simple example of inflation, what happens to currency? What happens like if you're invested, or you had money in like, say, like a, you know, somewhere in the East? And now all of a sudden, you're there what happened to Turkish Lira? Right? The leader took a nosedive? Because not because of the economy, but because of like foreign policy. Right? You know, what, how do you like these are very complex problems, right? These are difficult problems, unfortunate problems. But alongside and this is the world we live in. These kind of questions should be, I think they're excellent questions. Maybe we should, maybe that will, we'll try to do as a try

01:11:31--> 01:11:59

to bring on an expert on the topic next time. Next time, like maybe next month, but down the road, I think we'll bring on someone like shake Joe Bradford, who is from Houston, Texas, graduate from Medina, who is an expert on the matter, I think he will be very good for this. Talking about these things. He's definitely one who can give her opinion. So no promises, but we'll try to make that happen sometime on sometime down the road, meaning like Donna,

01:12:01--> 01:12:17

the student loan debt, this is a very difficult problem. You know, can you really like work part time and pay for med school? Probably? Most probably not, right? Have your parents save that much money for this? Probably not. Really, the idea of through loans is

01:12:18--> 01:12:35

get rid of it as quickly as you can, right? If you take an O SAP, try to like do Co Op programs, so that you don't have to borrow, like minimizing it to the bare minimum, right? I don't borrow from all SAP so you can live in like a

01:12:36--> 01:12:46

like a nice room and run residence something right? Try to save money, minimize it. And once you're done with it, try to pay it off as fast as possible. Right

01:12:48--> 01:12:49

now,

01:12:50--> 01:13:17

yeah, but in reality, you know, taxes, saving in taxes is actually second priority for us. first priority is getting rid of them don't write. In fact, if you're not leveraged so highly, you're actually in a much better financial position. So you can even like argue that it's actually in your interest to quickly pay off your loans so that your savings can be maximized through investing.

01:13:18--> 01:13:19

Well,

01:13:20--> 01:13:23

inshallah, okay, so thank you very much, everybody for coming out.

01:13:24--> 01:13:36

We usually do this once a month, right? Once a month to come together and discuss these topics. I actually want to ask you, do you want to do this again next month in October? October 21. Perhaps Yes or no?

01:13:38--> 01:13:49

October 21 is good. Yes. What will the topic be? The topic is open ended. So it's up to you and shout out and recommend some topics to me please. And we can make this happen accordingly.