Channel: Zahir Mahmood
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You know, we are people who are deemed, you know, we, we know people we should have a motive in life. So how does a messenger of Allah would walk? We couldn't catch up with him. You know, we're going places, but you're not going places if you're on your, you know your phone all day on your devices all day you know I was in a spec it's not exactly this time last year and we went to some ochtend ends in summer come, there is the grave of kazam kazam was the cousin of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. Yeah, he was the last person to come out of the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, we use Medina. And we have someone and he passed away in some
Assalamu alaikum everyone, welcome to this unscripted podcast, we are back in the office hamdulillah. And just before we crack on, we got a great guest and a great co host today, Mashallah.
But before we crack on just a reminder, I looked at the stats the other day, and someone said, and there's a bunch of you statistically who are freeloaders or just watching without subscribing. So remember to take our relationship to the next level. And click that subscribe button, you know, the bell icon as well, just to get notified of
any good stuff that we post.
As for today's podcast and handler, we have Omar back in the CO hosts seek Sonic gorilla mask
is actually to me is a way
it's just the power of show business as what today's guest, you know, we asked him to do and see we're very particular about unity and reaching out to different schools of thought on that kind of stuff and, you know, different races and so forth. So, you know, we really went out of our comfort zone and we've got a guest all the way from Birmingham, under
the law is none other than the legend himself. Mahmoud al Birmingham.
Birmingham, he was roomy, my son's called sohaib. Yeah, so So hey, boo, boo me.
But you're not you know, you're not fully Brahmi you have some acid in the southeast is around here. Born and raised in Redding. It's not pronounced reading.
Ironically, those who can't read probably.
But how is the Birmingham sheriff, very good, Mashallah list list.
this green globe,
it wasn't COVID
other regions were kind of they have these curves, they have spirals
But housing housing is buying a house the house, you know, so far going? Great. We just talking about, you know, we're setting up the cameras are always talking about how the sofa is going and, you know, still running.
On site on the back. I think our students didn't like it online. teachers didn't like it online. So as much as possible, we're back on site. Some people may not know the full range of what a software Institute, there's probably good to kind of Yeah. Honestly, if you asked me that, I don't know. But broadly, what we do we have two departments. We have the outreach. And we have
the education. So education. We do the eight year part time Alinea course for brothers and sisters, which runs in the evening more for professionals, people who are working etc. And we have the full time adhamiya course, which is also for brothers and sisters brothers is five years his brother's six years, sisters is five years, we have a two year diploma course and 100. And this year, we've kind of coupled up with minefield, it's a minefield, are delivering the BA in a sofa. So Arabic and Islamic Studies, and what's our fifth year students actually going straight into the second year of the BA. So by the time they finished alchemia course Alhamdulillah. They also can have a a BA under
the belt as well. That's and then we do quite a few other courses, you know, reverse courses, etc. But outside outreach, we have the homeless, which runs in seven cities. We have the food bank, we have free legal aid services, we have domestic violence and there's quite a few other things which I can't remember now support violence.
Yeah, of course no, Mashallah is excellent. I think so far we've been doing the food banks in the soup kitchens. For for a long time now before it was more popular unit. A few more people have picked up on it. But one of the first I knew was a sofa doing it
was good. And why do you have this duality in terms of the aim side, and the outreach. So we so far started in 2004 Mk the little kids. Then we started the part time idemia class, they had six guys, after a year all disappeared. But we carried on with it by the grace of Allah, we have full time part time. And then we thought, what are we doing in the community? We only speak about the Sahaba wanderlodge mind that we say they were made by the masjid. But they were not made for the masjid. Yeah, they were made for humanity. So we thought that we're teaching all this in what we're doing in the community. So therefore, the intention was to take that into the community that hey,
you know, you're the best donation taken out for the benefit of humanity. Yeah, so that was the intention that was kind of mindset behind it. Mashallah, I know, when I was working for a small company in the city, and we had a brunch in Birmingham that some of the professionals they used to attend us of his classes, and they were involved in a program, which was quite good, actually. because traditionally, I guess, some of the professionals don't feel connected to the massages and programs. So they found a way in which they could get involved through actually, which was actually, you know, the homeless project is really interesting, because some of the people who are involved in
the homebrew project have actually never come to so far.
So they're not not everybody's your studious type, nobody wants to stay, but they want to do good action as to hail. And this is Mashallah play. So they've never even been to so far. But they're involved in the so far Food Bank, the homeless project every single week, nationally, and so something for different types of personalities, as well as
the commercial for your mom, but they still want to do their own,
you know, expertise. Maybe they're interested in finance guy. He can help overcome, lawyers can offer that live pro bono work. And so in terms of the studious side, though,
so you don't owe me a program? Did you find yourself kind of updating it? Or what parts of it did you change from the traditional, you know, Darwinism, me, for example, what how did you? How did you kind of update it and make it quote unquote, relevant? So we updated every year, the teachers got sick of updating it yet. So with the full time we updated it to a degree, but it wasn't a real overhaul with a part time we did. This year, we've actually revisited the Arabic, the first two years Arabic. So we've kind of reassessed that. So we introduced less grammar, these grammar in there, but less grammar, so we want to go so what often happens with the Alomar, Mashallah, they're
proficient in reading Arabic, no doubt. Yeah. But the issue is they can't speak Arabic. Often they can't write Arabic too well. So that's something that we wanted to address. So that's what we've incorporated. We have a much older student who graduated last year, he's actually a Sikh revert to Korea. And he graduated last year, and he's doing his PhD in Arabic. Yeah. So handler, he's bought some very, very good ideas in. So now that's the first year the first two years we've looked at now we're gonna be looking at the rest of the, and what we want is that by the time our students reach fourth year, they're actually comfortable in writing assignments. So they have no issue when they
have to go and write assignments for the bees. Yeah, that is the intention in Arabic, and Arabic in English. If you construct too much, in just Arabic, the issue is you lose out on English. Yeah, so I've seen this in Pakistan. So you have certain modalities which only speak in Arabic, if you speak in any other language that are really throw you out. Okay, so one of the teachers was telling me who actually taught there, he said, the issue with that is that they're not professional in order to, but the medium of communication day to day is English. Well, they all do for us is English. So therefore, you have to kind of keep that balance, and lock these things I've realized because we've
kind of looked at the syllabus so many times is every move looks very good, you know, from the outside, but when you actually practically implement it, you see side effects. Yeah, but you only see those side effects after you've actually implemented after the first batch of guinea pigs. Exactly. They all look the old traditional way was actually better It was a revolution. So I mean, what is your aim with the ultimate cause? Is it to produce a llama and scholars to do research or is it to produce imams lead, salon massages and communities? Is it two for two hours to make diaries is a bit of everything actually. The thing you know the Eman period
Yeah, has kind of passed with the youngsters. You know, the old Alhamdulillah may have lost $1 Award and the elders, they qualify, they wanted to be moms. They had their karma, you know, they had the Zakat, the abstinence, they could live on a kind of meager salary, the youngsters can't, you know, they bought up here, the conference, etc. They want to get a job. And you will see in many places where, where there's many orlimar those places actually don't send their youngsters to residential medicine anymore. One of the reasons is that they realize that there's only 20 machines, and there's 2000 a month. So what do you do with those 2000 A mums, yeah, you see, they end up driving taxis
working in takeaways, etc. And at the end of the day, it becomes quite a difficult life, you know, so hence ours is to keep that balance a group martial law moms, but we want a moms who can be read assets. You know, we have these million pound massages. Yeah. How much do you pay your tea? Do you pay your mom's? I remember you wrote something. We purchased an article A while ago on assumptions. If years ago you said 150,000 pounds on a minaret, 15,000 pounds a year on the mountain mom, and my teacher just say if you're worth a million, your mom should be worth 5 million. Not necessarily, you know, in money, but he should be you know, active he should be this guy needs a mom is the leader of
the community. Yeah. So why is it that you spending, you know, 50,000 on a minaret which is not going to guide anybody? Yeah. It's something I thought I was in Istanbul recently.
And it's a place full of history. And I thought, you know, it's upon law, as well as all these buildings. The thing is, history is made by people and witnessed by the buildings. Sure. You know, where we've kind of flipped it all. It's about building the buildings rather than building people. Exactly, exactly. And this was the son of the message of a loss of lomasa. often say, look, look at the machine of we sell a lot of asylums, you know, the ceiling barely exceeded the heads of those who prayed in it, when you went into surgery that you would have pebbled on your foreheads, but was made out on baked clay. But look at the first stuff. Look at that machine. Look what it created.
Machina visa La la la was a little, you know, from that small, dark machine. Look, when amado de la Lu was martyred. He was hiding. Nobody saw a boo, because the machine was dark. If they had lights on, they would have seen him. Yeah, yeah. But from that small dark mustard emanates a light which extinguished over and half of the world. And we've as you said, we've flipped it, you know, upside down, we concentrate on the buildings, but on the people, so to mail a lot except what we do on shell, but that is the intention. And the aim is to build the people who will then you know,
so you envisage professionals are people who are doing normal jobs. But at the same time, they have that knowledge to they've done an earlier course on as well. And they wherever they in the kind of profession they can lead, you know, and be moms. Exactly that that is the genre that is intention, or interesting. So we have
dentists, doctors, in our final year, we actually even have a judge. So in the part time, fine, do we have a judge? Yeah, so we have all these different individuals who have amazing ability, sorry.
think it's important actually, because, you know, the types of problems that we're facing today and they're changing all the time, unless you're involved in the thick of it in terms of what's going on, it's hard to really understand it and you know, be able to navigate through it through you know,
and as you said earlier, like you know, this generation is different our I guess our parents who would listen in a beta The, the your mum, your mum said something that was enough for them yet. Very clear. Not mom said, No, we're not going to do it. There's no it's not but why the sounds I said is okay, we can do it. But there's this opinion and, you know, it's today children don't listen to the parents. Yeah. Forget the mom. Yeah. They don't listen to the parents. You know, you hear stories every single day. You know, children are disobedient children are rude. You know, that never happened or happen to a very small degree. Even like I was in Pakistan at the beginning of the year
before the lockdown. And I stopped traveling, I go sit near Richie and Karachi. And these three youngsters they on one motorbike, three of them. Yeah. So the one spit on the floor. So I said to him, I said to him, I said, Look, you know, young man, what you spit for you know if you love you
plays you love your country? You love your deen, you know, you shouldn't be doing this. He says to me, thank you uncle. I was really insulted. Thank you, uncle. Yeah, I was thinking to myself, if you said that to somebody from the same origins, Pakistanis Bengali whatever, you know, young man Don't spit. It's a why you, you might add, in what you tell me, you see?
Yeah, but, and that's the change that we have here. But we have to acknowledge that, you know, with the pros of being here, there's many, many cons, I think maybe that kind of culture is spreading as well to place that box and as over the kind of soft power and the cultural kind of, you know, exporting truth to other norms.
But the thing that remind you, what you remind me of just just now, and when you want to mention the minaret thing was something a modular muscle, you know, recently, he's, he's been talking about, you know, kids leaving Islam, and he's mentioned one of these reasons, and that is a mom's,
he felt the moms were not qualified or empowered with the tools they needed to reach, you know, the young people in today's kind of day and age, because the mom learning about lending, maybe a traditional
syllabus, you know, that was probably created for the world 200 years ago, 300 years ago, that landscape. Now, you know, mom's learning that and then coming into a society where, you know, this guy's addicted to weed, and this guy's an alcoholic, this guy's you know, running away from his family disguised to pornography, whatever, the you know, they don't have those skills to reach out to the young people, Andrew.
And he mentioned that thing as well. But you know, spending loads of money on on a massage on the buildings. Yeah, but not, you know, paying, as you said, and pay if you pay your mom's peanuts, you get monkeys.
So that's all around, isn't it? But we've benefited immensely from other artists, we study from other artists, you have imagined and mastered who these local modalities with the limited resources, agreed, you know, created yet. The thing is that in these modalities, you have teachers who are in order to generally or to speaking, yeah, and they have been teaching Hadeeth around for many years, and a very, very knowledgeable, but not knowing the culture is not necessarily their fault. because firstly, they have limited resources. So how much do you pay? In a modasa? 2500? pound? Imagine, do the math on that 2500 for a residential modasa it's next to nothing? For how long forever for the
entire year? Wow. But you go to university you pay nine 9000 a year 2500. That's with your food as with your accommodation, you know, with everything taken into consideration, and you look after my kids for the whole time. Yeah.
But I know a couple of kids.
So what they create is what they can create. Yeah, but it's not their fault.
That it is, it's the viruses fault. It's the community's fault for expecting, you know, for for for a tutor for your maths where you'll pay 20 to 25 pounds. But what about for your local person who's preserving the the Drina, the APR, the APR students I've seen don't want to be a moms. Why? Because you get paid next to nothing. And the committee members want to be the Imams and they want to treat the Imams as slaves. Yeah, so the ability they won't allow the ability to flourish. You know, they won't even if they're elder they won't nurture the mom is like, you know, you do this, why'd you come late? And then you are eight, nine committee members, and many of these committee members are
often quite well to do yeah, you know, so they want to throw the kind of muscle around so I've noticed with our own students those who are very able because so much sergeants now do pay reasonably well yeah. But you compare what American sides pay to UK massages you know 80 90,000 a year dollars in America here the guys on family tax credits you know, minimum wage and then we expect you know, Pamela you're gonna get you know the cream of your crop it's not gonna happen unfortunately.
Some guys sorry to butt in. But if you're enjoying this podcast, please head over to Islam tunisie.com forward slash donate to help us make more money if you're not enjoying it head over anyway and help us make better ones.
And also, I mean, I don't know how much this is a just a stereotype, whatever, but I had some family
Members extended family loads and stuff, saying that, you know, some people in the community they treat the residential madrasa as the last resort when the kids are too naughty and get kicked out of school is that that happens, what do you know is the thing is why it was set up and the time for a specific reason, and that in the address the issues of the time, and again, it's, you know, maybe it's not the best time, but you play with the cards that you're dealt, isn't it? You know, so with the resources, the limited resources that the community had, it was amazing is amazing what's been done. But the promise, I guess it was generally the massage that was not stood still, but they're
moving at a certain pace where life outside has just become so fast. Now, you mentioned the average amount of person comes one person when we were saying earlier wants to talk about LGBT, you know, quicksave. But why is it wrong for you know, two people of the same gender to be in love with each other because this is what they're bombarded with, to be able to articulate that in a way that won't get you in trouble either represents the Islamic position. That's a lot of school disregard the psychology required that the skills in reconciliation? Yeah, you know, because you're not dealing with before, I'm sure if a couple came to the Imam and said, Listen, this trouble is the mom would
say, and the wife would listen and the husband would listen. Now neither of them are going to necessarily true, we had exactly the same issue they were talking about in Birmingham, we should have a hook bar on this issue of LGBT. And every mom should give this whatever, you know, we should ask him, Look, we need this issue addressed. I said, No, I don't think it's a good idea. I said, because you got a youngster to be sitting there who only come for Juma. He's been bombarded with the thing about love. Why you impeding this, and then you got a mom who's gonna give you your traditional talk on the issue.
You know what to expect? Yeah, it's gonna cause more confusion. Adam and Steve?
Yeah, worse than that.
Yeah, exactly. And people aren't ready, you know, as in to be able to do this. It's unfair to ask the mums to, you know, to have to articulate navigate that landscape, which is beyond the the borders of the message and the community. It's the mainstream show. But you know, what they and this is a good segue for the some other another topic that we wanted to discuss, we were talking on the phone and stuff. There's a lot of younger brothers and sisters, they feel because the Imam is not talking about it in the masjid. Or they feel and there's a there's a vacuum for some people to utilize slash exploit wherever you see online, to say, look, these imams are sellouts, you know,
talking about the real things that you know, really important for you. So we've had this rise in kind of social media, Islam, almost where people are stepping in to fill the gap and to, to, you know, bring some confidence sounding but still kind of slightly problematic for many other reasons, kind of messages that, you know,
to appeal to a Muslim community, or some younger people that feel embattled, that feel insecure in the man, that feel nobody's talking about these issues that you know, we want we want to be, we want there to be, you know, discussions and stuff about and one so one thing I was trying to ask our guests is, how do you personally feel, social media, the internet, etc, has changed or is changing Islam, or how Islam is being spoken about and communicated and taught? Look, like most things, there's benefits in it.
And I think it depends on the individual. Some individuals have benefited from immensely in Allah Subhana Allah when he speaks about gambling and alcohol, he says there's good in them, there's benefit in them. But the sin is greater than the benefit. Similarly with this, there is benefit for some, but for others is destructive. It's the destructive Look, when you go, I've seen so many people get confused regarding the deen because there's so much, you know, trash out there on the internet, from all types of, you know, people from different backgrounds. So there's benefit in it, and there's
great harm in it. Now.
That's from the demand point of view. Yeah. And confusion or point of view. Then you got the other way, I believe, you know, we've reached a state where we actually think we're doing an amazing job to because we do you know, you know, forward a couple of WhatsApp messages and with Pamela You know, my amazing dad, he, you know, we do a couple of podcasts. We do a couple of talks online, we study a course online
You know, I honestly believe you know there's an element of this deal if you lose it, you lose a huge portion of it and that sacrifice. Yeah, Allah will Latina jaho to phenol and the unknown Solana those who make an effort in this Deen in our path. We are the ones who open the path for them. We guide them. You know what's happened is that in the internet has made us feel pious and studious. Yet in our comfort zones. This was never the case. This was never the case. I remember seeing my father, you know, when we were living in Redding, walking three miles every single day to the machine every single day to the machine three, three miles every single day. That was a sacrifice.
That wasn't just to get to the deep end the machine was
no there was only one.
In those days just one machine. They used to get three three hours of sorry three miles every single day. That was a sacrifice which was in the eldest we speak about a Mambo Hardy's traveling the entire world, okay? We speak about, you know, jabbering, abdillah going all the way to Damascus to listen to one Hadith of the Prophet salaallah alayhi salam and then we say now you know what? This election eastland emotional, I can't be bothered to go around with you know, do a course online to face outcome we will have to do it face to face. This is this this is in a lazy dour. It's a broader trend though. And I think just in human beings and the next generation. A lot of people say that a
lot of writers they say that we're moving towards
an image based society rather than a text based society rather than a ideals based society. So younger people they tend to want to be 100 years ago, younger people they want to be what? Doctor teacher, whatever, something that requires effort and raft, you know, sacrifice, struggle, but now they're saying, you know, more and more people want to be a YouTuber, or famous post and gratification as famous athlete, but not because they see the graph that's required to actually becoming an elite athlete, but because they see the spectacle of the athlete, you know, the youtubers, middle of desert here, there are some Mashallah guys who do some amazing work. But, you
know, I know quite a few of these youngsters.
Honestly, may Allah reward them.
There's a lot of beer which needs to be done. Yeah, it's famous denier. You know, you're always looking for more likes, so you need to lubricate the parameters. This ain't working. Now. Let's try this. Let's try No matter how much martial laws have handlers bid and how jobs are done in those videos. It's a lot of near and dear This doesn't come in money. To me his fame. Actually fame is even more destructive. So I know a few of the youngsters who get bit popular, but then they want to remain popular by star sustainable. So they walk into cafes and we recognize Assalamu alaykum Brava. Mashallah, Mashallah
you still owe us the money from the last bill
that dwindles? Because it's dunya. And it's not deed. Yeah, you believe that it was done because of your own efforts. And it wasn't done for the sake of Dean, now you're upset. And now you are depressed, because people are no longer giving use alarms.
So it's just you know, in May, that may may be Dean, the podcast may be Dean, etc. But this law, you know, and the rectification of the knee, it needs to be done regularly. Yeah. And I've seen this in quite a few youngsters who are active on social media, they never, they're not happy. Because it's like, how many likes do I have? How many followers do I have? And if you do it for the sake of Allah, and Allah gives all this last yet, if you do for the sake of Allah, you won't mind. Yeah, exactly. I remember you should, as I said, in a meeting once.
There was some video that went viral, and there was a bit of some dodgy stuff in and someone was arguing that the company likes us got so many views, and maybe it's doing some good stuff. That's what he said. Imagine if you had 1 billion likes, but I had one dislike from Allah.
Did I say
you didn't know.
Remember? That is, you know, I'm gonna create this podcast. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna start work for assumption and see
I'm going to try and change your life just just so I can get into this position and remind you of that thing
that I was talking about this
rambling on about the fact that it's not just you know that that issue of fame and craving that needing to sustain that is bad enough. But the problem I feel that you know, is even more dangerous is the fact that it's become automated now, it's become algorithmic. Yeah, that people
people who are maybe start off doing you know, General uncontroversial dow and stuff, they're all you know, they're doing some good stuff, they're talking about general agreed upon things, but because these social media platforms YouTube, Facebook, whatever, they they operate on subtle kind of changes in your behavior as a producer and as a consumer of those things, that they push you towards more and more controversial more and more edgy, more and more polarizing issues. Yeah. And this is a lot of literature on actually how this is by design, right? artificial intelligence algorithms are doing this to Leo people into further and further into, you know, I don't want to say
extreme but, you know, niche opinions or things that will
will polarize people. Yeah. So
one of those things is this reputation culture which is kind of making a resurgence Yeah. You know, very well for your back from back in the days and in the 90s whatever where all this digital stuff used to happen on the street
or messenger pigeons or whatever
now is algorithmic is automated such that me if I'm watching something night, a good beneficent amount of alcohol on it will say, okay, autoplay afterwards suggested video watch next such and such destroys ABC personally. Yeah. And me as just an the primal, you know, feeling is that, I want to see that
because it's like watching a cockroach gooseneck King rubbernecking. Wolf is cold in the you know, you shouldn't watch it the in a car wreck or whatever, but it is some primal thing inside you. And it's in these algorithms are geared towards exploiting that. Yes, yeah. So it will lead you down. If like, even if one one researchers saying, you know, even if you're watching a video about the vegetarianism, yeah, it will suggest another video, veganism.
Bit more and more and more extreme down that rabbit hole. And I don't see i think i personally I feel in 100 years or something, if the human race is still here. I think every fifth Council, it can mark my words, if anyone's watching this in some history class, if you can, might well every fifth Council in the world is gonna be like, how did they not realize it was completely destroying the society and
when they see this, they'll have a statue of you outside East London.
I think this is the thing, you know, people like controversy. Unfortunately, it's kind of seeping into the Muslim culture. All these guys who now quote, controversy, some do it for the sake of Allah subhanaw taala. Some issues need to be dealt with, you know, somebody,
attacks against Muslims, etc. It needs to be but then there's this culture of just controversy. And it's the sad thing is that from a time where people used to watch talks, people who wanted to benefit now what do you watch? You watch YouTubers, you watch controversy, you watch debates, I remember what when you know, subscribe, just remember to subscribe to something.
I remember a couple of years ago, I don't want to speak about controversy now. But a couple of years ago, there was that Milad controversy, I won't mention any names. Every day, I would walk into class to share in the students that hey, do you have what so and so? So so and so said, like, you know, we're so engrossed into this culture, that the problem is it doesn't stop there. It gets from it gets worse. Yeah, we like the controversies. Then we like to know what people are doing. People are saying, Yeah, so we want to know, we're nosy. So once upon a time, people used to watch open drama now they want to know, oh, but this
robot would dislike this. Hey GRP What does she do at home so she introduces them to a house and etc. Then for Alan who's recently heard it is in the hands of Allah. We don't we're not here to judge people yet. But then tomorrow, she takes
Have a job. And now you're confused. Yeah. Why are you confused for? Do you have anything better to do then know about what her children and her husband are doing and what she's shopping? And it's not even their real life anyway. Just like, you know, you know, when this thing happened about, you know,
Abdullah and Omar, Abdullah and Hassan Yes, yeah. What happened? Everybody spoke about it. You know, honestly, I was gonna do a talk. I didn't get around to it, not about them. They did what they did about those who followed them. Come on, get a life.
Don't get a life, don't you have a life of what you want to know what they're doing? And then she came out, she said, sometime, we would take 50 pictures to get it, right. They made their money. They got whatever they wanted their fame. What did you get out of it? Besides wasting your time? You know, and so it's, I feel sorry for those people. You know, we are people, Dean, you know, we are we, you know, Pete, we should have a motive in life. So how about a messenger of Allah would walk, we couldn't catch up with him. You know, we're going places, but you're not going places. If you're on your, you know, your your phone all day on your devices all day. You know, I was in a Pakistan
exactly this time last year. And we went to summer camp ends in summer come, there is the grave of kazam kazam was the cousin of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. Yeah, he was the last person to come out of the grave of the prophets, Allah, Allah, Allah who said, Look, we Medina. And we have someone and he passed away in some way. And, you know, and, and that's what we should be. But there's another thing, which I want to take his talk about as well.
Is, is this issue of rebuttals? And bringing people down? You know, this is this is a real sickness. You know, you see how people look for one mistake in a person. And they get happy when the person makes them makes a mistake, as if they want him to make the mistake. And that's what gives them the joy. Exactly.
I mean, what, what kind of person are you? Who will look at one person mistake? A guy makes a muscle out that it makes it he makes a mistake? In some opinion? Yeah, okay. Okay, so happy. Oh, he's made a mistake. Everybody's going around. Look, he made a fit. Well,
didn't the scholars of past make mistakes, you know, Mm hmm. Number 11. He came to
America. He said to her mate, he said, You know, I heard there's a man called Shafi here. I've heard some great things about I want to meet him. So homemade. He says, I didn't really want to meet him.
So he said he dragged me along to him. He said, We sat with him. We spoke over 100 massage. So when we went bank,
a mama, mama, mama,
mama, mama de la la la. So what do you think about the Shafi said, Yeah, but he made some mistakes.
I think is he said, he said, How many he said, so he said, okay, we spoke about 100 Messiah, and he made a mistake. Maybe in five, maybe in 10. Yeah. He said, Take what is good. Leave that what you're not good. 10 mosyle he made mistakes in imaginefx. So molano chef made 10 mistakes, let me know.
I'm in love and see him again.
Exactly. And that's the unfortunate culture that we've we've created. And the worst thing about it, because we're so groupie
will overlook all the mistakes of our show. And one mistake made by somebody else, you know, wouldn't take him to talk, I found is really a job is that so even in these rebuttals are going on in person A versus Person B, and they'll talk about their mistakes. But what they don't say is how you should treat that person they don't. So they're telling their followers this person's done this this person does that and I've asked a few these days ago. So what does that mean when you see him when you say Salaam team? And honestly the response I've got is I don't know that's up to the scholars to say whether we should return this and um, because of they've had some of these
discussions. I got dizzy have You're right. Does he have any rights of you as a Muslim brother? There are no that's not for us. So they quit all of this, like confusion. And they don't know the status of the person.
And honestly, this is the worst thing this is a form of kind of undercover tech field almost because you have you pushed this person out of the fold of Islam, but you're not being clear. Okay, you know where this person is. Look at Mashallah pious person, excellent. Masha, Masha Allah was dedicated his life with the deen of Allah subhanho wa Taala.
He could just stop
Thanks for joining in.
Maybe his wife is watching.
He's chosen his statue as well.
And then he makes a slip.
Everybody's out there. Oh, he's made one mistake. And the problem is a lot of them said that every son of Adam makes mistakes, and the best one of them is who does Toba? He makes one mistake in his 20 years of power.
Is it gize? Is it permitted permitted for us to overlook his 20 years of good and take him to task for that? Post is not? Of course, it's disproportion is haraam.
Look, look at how to be better the hot tip.
The message of Allah prepares an army to go and attack Makkah. And he sent a letter informing the army treason. Yeah.
It's treason. Yeah, yeah. And the Messenger of Allah said, you will find a woman at a set of Pico roba she will have a certain letter, bring that letter. So they went there, they found lady she had it in the plant over here, she took it out and the Messenger of Allah went to heart, the Minister had to watch this. And he said, Oh, Mr. developer, do not hasten to judge me. Don't hasten to judge me. But you know, I'm not a person displeased with Islam, but I don't have no family in Makkah to look after my family, my property that I'm not from the Quraysh Yeah. And I thought they would harm my family, and
the way they strike at the neck of this
and the message of Allah said, it was he not from those who participated in the Battle of battles.
Maybe Allah says regarding of the regarding the people of bat, but you know, do whatever you want, Allah has overlooked your mistakes. This was treason.
This was treason. And the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, No, you know, you know, and we look for one mistake for a person who's dedicated his entire life is not even permitted for a person who has dedicated his entire life. And the beautiful example is, you know, the example is like, you know, you have your own. Yep. In a glass, you drop your own in a glass, you will drop a urine you might see, you know, the, the color of change of color. But when you got an ocean, you drop a drop of urine. In that ocean, you're not gonna notice it. Yeah, this person has so much hate. So much. Good. And you can't see any of the 2030 years of good. All you can see is one mistake that
he's done. That's run through the steam room. Okay. And he mentioned that analogy as well. He said, the lateral allama aka Dhawan, Bihar. So Pamela, through the mistakes of scholars, like like bits of urine. Oh, filth. Yeah. But the oceans? Yeah. I mean, neural deep neural net, a scholar that he loved. So his was not on his, you know, deputies were very upset about him because he's spending a lot of time with the scholar. So say that he's got this mistake. He's got this mistake. He's got this mistake. No teacher, I know. He's got all these mistakes. But he said he's good drowns the few mistakes. He had said, If I was you, I would look at your own mistakes. I will look at your, you
know, skeletons in your closets. Yeah. So what advice would you give them to someone who maybe likes watching these types of things, or maybe making producing content, talking about, you know, certain people and their mistakes and so forth? One, one argument that they make is, but we're just advising, you know, it's a dino naziha. The religion is sincere advice. And we're just advising these people, you know, that they made the mistakes? Well, you know, if somebody makes a major mistake, first is not everybody's duty to rectify them. If you have no parameters, no inner core it is not permissible for you. And if you do rectify, then do it according to the transgression.
If you proportional, proportional, you know, misurina law is the law of on your brother is that you can only remember the bad that he's done.
He says that, that's the only thing you can remember. So, it must be proportionate to the mistake is that if it is not proportionate to the mistake that you and you are doing.
So we you think that you are doing a emulgel Moreover, you're not doing a joining good. And forbidding be evil actually, you are doing the transgression. It is done publicly if it's done publicly. Yeah. If not done publicly, you know, you know, there's amazing integration, which is automatic deduce.
Where it's a famous duration read by Marblehead, Yamato LA LA and
Honestly, this really shows us what the honor of a believer is. Yeah, this was went on the day of arafah. When the message of Allah Allah Allah, Allah wa sallam said to the Sahaba he said What day is it? Yeah, what month is it? What city is it? And in some region, they mentioned some rituals that a lot of them you know, a lady will know best. So, the purpose of most of them said is the ninth
ninth, the day of alpha, it did hit you and the city is maca. He said like this day, this month, and the city is sacred.
The blood, the honor and the wealth of a believer is honorable like this. Now the Alomar Did you say amazing here, they say you know when you normally give up you give a resemblance you have the machine by the machine, that which you resemble that you were to resemble be with. So that thing that you are resembling like say for instance, I say they said Zaid is like a lion. Now, because Jade is brave and strong. We say z is like a lion. But in the out the two in bravery, who is strong? Who is greater Lion, the lion on that comes next. Yeah, exactly.
They say that this is one of the few places actually the thing which is being resembled is greater than the thing which will resemble with meaning that the blood, the honor, the wealth is more sacred than Makkah, then the ninth day of zilliqa, the most holiest day of the year. And there was gold. And the day, the day of sorry, the other 10 days of the delivery of the month ledger and the day of arafah. This is the honor of a believer,
you know, and only if we kind of recognize this. So my advice to those
who need to do it. Firstly, you need you need to have the element to do it. Yeah, you need to have the guidance of other scholars, why don't you do it? And then it has to be proportionate? Yeah. And if it is not proportionate, then it's not permitted. You know, and for those for those who just sit there to see what mistakes some scholar makes or mistake some day he makes, is hard on.
It's not permitted, you know, has embassy dama de la la, they said to him, said, you know, there's some guys in your gathering who just sit there and the only reason
is to find your mistakes. The thing is that this practice is quite old. It's
really nice to have some seller.
Yeah. But not from the seller. Yeah. From the seller. So he said to
me, he said, I know there are people out there who only sit in the house and bursary Rahmatullah Allah is, you know, the one of the greatest I've been in his gathering. And it was just to find what mistakes he makes. He said, These people don't spend a lot how they're going to pay me. And a lot
of people are not spared a lot. So are they going to do so? But the thing is, we we don't want to be amongst those people. Yeah, you know, we want to be amongst those who because
I don't want to make this a monologue. You know, so, you guys, but something else comes to my mind, which is so unlikely. So you're not the Messenger of Allah said.
Who? Who is the poorest person? Yeah, the bankrupt person, the bankrupt person. And this is so and so this guy's mufflers. This guy's got no, not a penny to his name. He said no, no. So that person who comes on the Day of Judgment, and he has that he has good deeds, the equivalent to the mountain of odd, odd. He's like, you know, that mountain, which goes four kilometres, kilometres? Yeah, sure, it's not person.
But he would have taken the rights of so many other people that those people will be lined up bigger than the cube, outside test goes in lockdown, way for toilet roll.
Okay, somebody puts a photo of me.
So, long queue. And it says Allah, he, he took, he did this to me, he oppressed me. He swore at me, he took my rank, and then action backbiting, cylinder, you know, slander on YouTube, on social media. So his action will be given to a person given to a person given to that person until this man who had actions equivalent to the mountain of hot would have nothing left. But they will be still aligned with people. Then Allah then Allah will take his good
They simply place it on his shoulders until he will be dragged into the fight channel. And you know, what law he, you know, imagine you back by today, one person will use a lambda one person in law save us all. Yeah, and you put it on social media, and that goes viral, and a million people 100,000 people see your slander.
Or even if it's true, even if it's true, even if it's true, even if it's backbiting 100,000 and you thought you were doing good, in your own deluded mind, you thought you were doing good
or bad mighty to 100,000 people. Now how are you going to rectify that exactly.
Something guys, me again, reminding you to head over to Islam 20 on sedar.com forward slash donate to keep the lights on on Islam 21 We pride ourselves on being independent and being funded by the grassroots community are you gonna make sure that each of those people even if you issue an apology, that each and every one of them understood it, the scary thing about that is this this was someone who came with good deeds This is someone who must have struggled and strive their whole life and they had that amount of good deeds people are entering into this younger and younger let's be honest, they're not even particularly practicing or doing you know as much as they can in all the
other spheres of Islam that but that's required from us, but they are interested in the in the debate the the spectacle and they are partaking in this so it goes straight to the the part of the queue where you're just getting the scenes you know, far less scary like where's the struggle? Where's the striving to do the good deeds and then you know, you fall into that we don't even do that we're going straight to that exactly. You know, and this is one of the nice thing is that look if you think you're sincere in what you're doing, you know the people who want to get into the bait how many people take a step back and make the offer the other person first just something we should
check ourselves with. Before we go straight to the debate Have you made the are sincerely asking a lot in the depths of the night that life This person is incorrect guide them and let them be corrected by themselves. Drug flow is an issue of culture as well as I see this as a very similar kind of phenomenon to you know, the
you know, not to be not to offend anyone like the road man selling drug Muslims selling drugs or whatever I recall because that person has absorbed that culture in where he's grown up and that's become you know, maybe replaced certain Islamic values in his life likewise the people indulging in attacking people online they they're indulging in a
a culture which is foreign to our own Yeah, which is replacing this gossip culture this what is this celebrity doing was that doing he said this about that person and this person said you know, did this against that person that we were indulging this thing which is completely alien to our our Deen and we justify it post facto by a hadith Hara Stanley scholar there that Oh, backbiting is okay. If it's, you know, if they did something publicly, or this than the thing that's like saying,
you know, eating pig is okay. Because Yeah, there is a time where you if you're, if you're in certain, you know, circumstances, but you don't say you don't frame the discourse that Aslan, this is an okay thing. When you whenever I'm trying to I try to get brothers and sisters I speak to to, to really get get in their heads that just speaking about another Muslim. Yeah, just speaking about the mentioning their name, you should be so scared. I remember in in adults, whatever, if someone would say shakes on so said XYZ. And the shaking, the Darcy would his face would change. Here's another you've mentioned another shift. We can't let's let's change the subject. You can't. I'm not
gonna, you know, issue an opinion when another show whatever. Let's just say he wasn't even cussing or anything, just mentioned that he has a different opinion.
But just the honor of the Muslims has become so cheap in our in our public kind of throw punches. It's, it's Yes.
I think we've lost our own internal honor.
And so because we don't have honor ourselves, and we don't know how to bring honor about ourselves. We don't honor other people either. Yeah. This this is rare, you know. Exactly. And, and it's also about self esteem as well. Yeah. We get our self esteem and confidence by looking at the failures of others. That's so sad. You know why? Because what happens is when you're looking at the faults of others, you will never have time for introspection. Yeah. You know, it was one of the solicit. He said, shall I let you be an up lady said my own faults are preoccupied. I look at the faults of others. Somebody mentioned somebody in front of him and he said, I've got no time to look. But what
happens we look at failures. Oh, this guy made a mistake.
So somebody else has made this mistake, we feel good. It gives us self esteem. And that is a sad state of affairs. It's like money not in fence.
Is that correct? Did I use that right?
Just did I use that phrase correctly if
they any failure whether
this is from from amongst
So, we kind of talked about media personalities. And now you have this huge swathe of people who are just voyeurs. They're looking at what's going on. And then we also have this kind of trial by media where someone says something or, you know the truth. They say, you know, a lies halfway around the world before the truth has put its boots on. And we start bleeding more fuel is added to it and we see this How would you kind of advise us when we see something that goes wrong, but we're not sure. And even though it may seem so obvious, let's say tomorrow, Omar, Omar is a video leaks of Omar, you know, saying something silly? Or embarrass very likely. Yeah, it could be today.
And it comes across, you know, Steve's a Facebook feed how Steve was, is a Muslim. Yeah. How should Steve, Steve react should give him the benefit of the doubt, unless he has concrete
reason not to. And even then, even then we are from amongst those who overlook and hide the sins of other people, because we want Allah to overlook our faults on the Day of Judgment. Imagine this, you know, look, Pamela, in this dunya if you hide somebody sins, yeah. Allah Subhana, Allah will take it on upon him on that day when the first man from other Malay Salatu, salam to the last man, your children, your family will be there. Allah will hide your sins. There's a reason why the dean teaches his beautiful things. And the thing is that we see a small mistake. Yeah. And we want to magnify it to such a degree that the entire denier sees it as a marriage.
So I mean, the prime example I think, I think, I want to kind of touch on this was a guy I really feel that injustice was done to this guy, and it was the issue in Ramadan, which happened with this guy called Jawad. Oh, yeah. Do you want I don't really know him personally, I've, I think one talk in Darby. We want to say,
other than that, I don't know. But I sort of know, Uncle Joe and Uncle Joe are the
So this poor guy is on on it live on a map. And he and and they asked, he said, I'm sure you know about the tea coffee was once upon a time by ethical women and another guy there, which he obviously shouldn't have said, but he said, Oh, yeah, excuse to something to that effect. Yeah, you know, excuse to rub against the more distant rub against him. Yep. And there's three other people there as well. Yeah.
Jawad doesn't react to a statement. Yeah, he doesn't laugh. He doesn't agree to it. Yep. And then what happens is this poor guy loses his job on the consequence of somebody else making a statement. Not only that, they call him things like, you know, pervert. You know, this is and then this 50 year old man who spent 25 years plus in the charity sector, loses his job, loses his cube of credibility, comes on live TV, crying and apologizing. What did he do wrong? Yes.
What did he do wrong? What we did wrong was that we did not give him the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. So the wrong is with us the wrong is not with him.
And this is the unfortunate thing about social media people in unlike to judge somebody, even if for argument's sake, he did do something wrong. Somebody did somebody did do something wrong. That's not proportionate. Exactly.
for 25 years of hate, you lose your job. So the criteria is the Islamic Muslim criteria, the criteria you're using is something else. Yeah. Yeah, that is something else is not this lambic criteria. And I saw this guy and I thought, you know, 50 year old guys is crying on TV. For something he didn't do. Okay. Some would argue he won't. But you know, when the brother said what he said, there? He should rectify them. Yeah. You know,
How many How often do people see in front of us the shoe included? things that they shouldn't say. And we know the world isn't watching us. We don't jump down their throat all, you know how many times our Auntie or uncle will come to the, you know, say something that they shouldn't say we don't say anti racist?
We don't say sometimes is that that's an Islam. That's the Islamic thing to do to practice the lawful, exactly make it make it look like if he actively heard it. That's another thing. You know, there was no response yet. But why are we being idealistic for others, when we don't use the same criteria for us? Okay. Maybe he should have said it. Yep. But you and I don't say all the time, he tells you the same if it was someone said something about someone they shouldn't have. And you find it awkward to say, bro, don't say it. Yeah, my mom at that time. Yeah, I may say to them, only three other people in there. And you know, and this, this is the sad thing about the Muslims today where
there was a time where, you know, people would give others the benefit of the doubt. Here. We're looking for the, you know, the shortcut to that last bit like a non Muslim do to us that why did you not condemn something? So yeah.
Your refusal, your lack of condemnation is some kind of sign that you're exactly. So here's the other side of actually, this is where someone you like, and they maybe slip up. But I guess justice is also when there's someone you dislike, and they make a mistake as well, that you have to be Justin or you hold them to it. You don't let your personal emotions come out through that. You know, it's easier when it's someone you like, and you can kind of smooth over it. And if it's someone you have lots of disagreements with, then still keep it proportional as
you know, you don't last and Allah says in the Quran, Allah jurymen a commission an omen? Allah Allah de Du de leeuw. Who, taqwa Yeah.
That your dislike for a comb for a group of people should not make you unjust foot towards them. Be just for that as the closest to this is a G boy, I'll tell you why.
Primarily, Allah is speaking to the message of a loss of Muslim and the Sahaba. Yeah. Who did they not like? Who did they have an issue with?
The file the mushrikeen? Who did Sheila quit Allah. So Allah is telling the message of Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, your dislike for a group of people who do schilke with me? Yeah, yes, still should keep you just against those group of people, that Allah is they, even if they disbelieve in me, you still have to be just with those group of people. And this is Allah subhanho wa Taala. So hence, you know,
our approach towards others. You know, Allah, Allah says in the Quran, Allah Dinamo, Gurukul, wamena, Bucharest, Shahada, Allah, Allah, He will know Allah and physical, you know, even if you have to give witness against your very self, very self, you still, and then Allah says against your parents. And then Allah says against your family, these are the closest people to you. So that's what Allah Subhana Allah expects from us believers, and it is a is a high call. It doesn't mean to review your own selves and your own parents.
to the kind of work,
nobody's done like that. And I think generally, maybe it's because we live in in the West, or maybe where we are at the time. But this thing about giving preference to believers really loud while I'm Bara? Yeah. We just don't really fully understand and internalize anymore. I think, especially I see when we're working. You know, sometimes I've been in meetings and on the other side, there's a Muslim who said something that you know, you can really get them into trouble. But then you think they have rights over you as a believer in any any situation, you know, you've got to think about these things. And we don't think about these things, the rights that a believer has over you really
what that means, and sometimes will come up a little bit lovey dovey things have become a bit wishy washy and everything's become about love for everyone. And there's just this with just for everything. But this thing about loving the blues, loving the people who worship Allah, they have these rights over you. Of course, someone said to us why why are you skipping Walla and going straight to Bara?
Keeping love, straight to hatred, even like on the other extreme about this thing about judging. You know, it's like, Ah, don't judge me.
I can't think of a judge the judge. Yeah, yeah, we will. I mean, obviously, there's parameters and DNA parameters that we judge when somebody comes from a job. We judge him when somebody will come to your daughter to ask for her hand in marriage or your son. You will judge Yeah.
We judge. It's not, but it's like this absolute thing. Let me do whatever I want. Let me do any corruption in the world. Don't judge me cut up a two pack.
How do you reconcile those two them? Yeah, so one, someone could say, Look, don't judge a person, but maybe the advice that you give, it should be in private and it shouldn't be, you know, look at this person online, or something stupid. It should be sincere advice that you're giving on a private level. And it's not like, I'll give you five minutes to respond. If you don't apologize for putting online. The first the first thing. There's two things in this. The first thing is sincerity. Sincerity, you need to be sincere if you're advising them, and then it should be done in concordance with the Sharia. Yeah, if these both things are done, then I'll handle all this hate in it. Firstly,
often, there's no class in it.
You you are going for the jugular. Irrespective. Yeah, yeah. And so Pamela, this is why we have the issues that we have in the oma the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, and this is a such a beautiful Hadees you know, and if the world acted upon this
law yoke men or hadoken had he, by your holiness, see, that none of you can be a true believer that he loves for his brother, his sister, what he loves for himself, according to some interpretation, this is actually a Hawa brotherhood, in humanity. You know, the easiest interpretation for this is interpretation for this is that you treat other people like you want to be treated yourself.
If you ever made a mistake, would you like people to advertise it all around the world? Or would you like them to hide your sins? We all got skeletons in our wardrobes all of us have, you know that that is that as human beings
So if you if you want to treat others, you know, you want to be treated in that way and respect others. And this is the teaching of our dean. Yeah. And it's also not to rant or anything, but I also find it really almost kind of Beretta
without any of the law whatsoever that imagine you you trolled through someone's you know, long video, and they got like, 2000 views and you took one little clip, where he said something incorrectly, arguments, he said something wrong against the deen of Allah. And he's saying something that's, you know, that you know, is going to mislead people. You take that one minute video, and he makes it go viral. making millions more people watch it. What about your own lira for something wrong being said about being true, man, if someone said something about your customer, Mum, whatever. Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't go around saying this person said this, this this exact thing
about my mum, wherever you'd at least keep it generic. Just for your own real and shame. You know, I was in a talk once in Pakistan was at a conference and one of the molana said in this court, he was speaking in English. Should you not even allowed to from these guys? Yeah, okay. So, afterwards, I said to him, I said, You know what?
Because you know what, I didn't realize I said that. Yeah, this guy's a scholar. So he knows me, you know, he's not, because you know what? It's just like, only realized afterwards. Yeah. But then, you know, you know, those ones?
Like, who? I hope nobody recorded that.
And then, you know, he's this guy studied, he knows this is against any aqeedah, etc. But he was a slip of the tongue. He maybe he was thinking, yeah, you take that portion out. And then you put it on social media. And that's in Santa Cruz. Exactly. The person who lost his camera in the desert, and then he finds it. Yes. Yes, I know exactly. Someone should do a remake of that Hadith. And
he was refuted for being a
Allah. And then people say, think fish when you're talking. He wasn't like, you know, when your platforms etc. You think of something else you may say colloquially and yet, the context is all driven. If you ask the person, five minutes after that, is this what you meant? They'd say, No, no, exactly. And sometimes you're speaking, you don't cover all angles. Yeah.
come to mind. Especially guys like me will get quite high power to speak in here. And then somebody says to you, oh, but she had that. Oh, yeah, edit that part.
Let me give you an example. Just yesterday here, you know,
what's it called?
swiped agenda. Yes, I did. I did. And I put and they put it up yesterday. So I was meant to say was that Archbishop Rowan Williams? Yeah. So I said, Rowan.
So he takes me yesterday. And he goes, Yeah, I think
you meant the cold road Williams he said, Mr. Bean,
these things happen.
At least he reviewed in public and private.
Guys, last reminder, I promise head over to Islam 20 unc.com forward slash donate to help this movement get to the next level. So we have genuine high quality media articulating Islam in the 21st century. and developing confident Muslims impacting the world for the better
in terms of your background is maybe take a slightly different tact to be quite good. And you know, you didn't go down the traditionally mum either. And most of you, didn't you? Oh, yeah. cuz I've said not the traditional Mashallah. And I guess your talks that you're most well known for probably the kind of history personalities. Is this something that interested you from before? Or is it just something that you kind of got into? I think something I got into our modalities that the general does in the zone with that is they don't really emphasize too much on history. Yeah, other sciences do history is something that you don't, it was something that I started reading up on the Sahaba.
Then I did a few talks on the Sahaba of the Allah and home. And then it just kind of took, you know, kind of took up a lot of my time I started reading on certain personalities. I mean, I've done, I've done obviously, the full qualifier. And I've done them in detail that only half has been recorded to hopefully be released soon. And so yes, history is something which really, really interests me. And because history repeats itself, yes. Yeah. You know, the problem is that we don't learn from history. Everything which happens to us we think is the first time it's ever happened, you know, so they come up with things that Oh, ISIS, never has a group like ISIS ever existed in Islam. We've had
quite a few fruitcakes.
Quite a few of them were far worse than they were. Yeah. You know, and then when you look at history, you realize that these were the problems which we occur. What we see with the leaders today, is what we've seen for the last 1400 years. Yeah, you know, we get shocked How could they do this with Jerusalem? How could they do this without God? How could the Imam say this? You know, Allah has given him such a status. Now.
This has happened throughout but if you don't know your history, then you will think is
what we know. History what we know is a bit Osceola. Yeah. The Golden generations. Yeah. And then we skip to our period. So somehow, we think, hold on. If we had,
we would have the time of Omar Oh,
yeah, no, no, no, no, you would have the title model hooked up, because our candidate would reflect you and I.
And it's important for us to know that so that's why history really, really interests me. And I really, personally benefited a lot from, you know, sometimes it can feel quite overwhelming when you see the state of the Muslims and being attacked, left, right and center, wherever you look east or west. It seems that Muslims are like, you know, the kicking ball of everyone. And there's a talk he gave about the Mongols and murshid and at that time out, even though they won the Muslims conquered. Yeah. And I remember very poignant, you know, did not want to have for that share. Because just because we do forget, and this is what this point about history repeating itself, and also
contextualizing actually, things have been worse. We can imagine it Yeah, you know,
and refer back to it. Yeah. 100% I didn't want to ask you and ask this to the senior I'm sorry. Not to say that you're older, anything. Senior.
That is your advice.
What advice would you give to yourself? 2020 years ago? My advice? Oh, there's so much one lucky there's so much wish. There's so many things I could have done improve myself. hamdulillah. You know, there's, I've traveled a considerable amount. I've seen a lot of places I stayed in different places. I met some amazing individuals, in my study days through my talks, etc. There's so much things one I would have maybe study wise, I would concentrate on certain things which would have assisted me in my Latin life. Yeah.
Secondly, I would have
maybe spent more time honestly in the future.
you know, Alhamdulillah by the grace of Allah, both my parents live with me, we're a big family. I'm the youngest of all my brothers. But you know,
how, you know, time doesn't come back? You know, I, I wish I I wish that
I could have reset the clock, you know. And then my parents, my mom was passed away recently, my father passed a few years ago, I wish I could have been a better husband. You know, I'm a great husband. Now.
What I'm saying is that, but that only comes with maturity, it wouldn't have come when I got married. But when you look back at it, you realize, you know what, there's so many things I could have done better. As a husband, as a son, as a brother. And they are the main main things about the deen Alhamdulillah. Obviously, those things, but as a human being, you know, I wish I could attend the clock and said, you know, what, these these things, which I I wasn't involved in with my family.
Those are the things that I think with the cold think and time is the best teacher. So even if I reverse the clock, I mean, we say this hypothetical, isn't it? Yeah, it wouldn't not happen. But when I look back, I'm like, wow, I could have been a far better person. Could have been far better family member? I could have been far better husband.
Yeah, exactly as good answer. It is. And, you know, I was just gonna say, actually, you know, you know, when someone passes away, normally, whatever their life was full of people always boil it down to maybe two or three qualities of that person that they were known for. Their, you know, use this, they'll say, not to the exclusion of other things, they'll say, he was a good son. Or he, you know, he was very generous. Yeah, you know, it doesn't mean that he was in a bad accident, but it was coming in, and these few qualities of what a person is known as finds them. And these things that you're saying actually is true. Because sometimes, especially when you're young, and you have a zeal
for the minute you want to do all these things, which aren't even a foregone, you are actually loving and looking after your parents isn't obligations, you know, and
today, I want to say to the students, you know, this is an example where, you know, my father was very ill, and the local Imam came from Burma, Jemima Shalini, my father, see my father, and I had actually left the support for that period, I said, you guys take, I need to look after my father, just keep dancing with my father. And he said to me, he said, You know, when your parents pass away, you always think you wish you could have done more.
I was sitting there, and I think you're not me,
you're not me. You know, 80 to 100, by the grace of Elijah, stay with my father, do whatever you had dimension at the time. You know, when my father passed away,
I wish I could have done 100 times.
You know, we go home today.
We've got our phones. We take our parents for granted. Those who are parents are alive. We don't talk to your parents, you got no time. You got to talk to people that you don't really need to talk to. You're on your phones, you got no time to speak to your wife, you're not done the children. And then a time comes when they're not there anymore. You think?
Not only did I lose that connection with my parents with my, with my, you know, a wife, with my children? who wish I could turn back the clock, but you can't. There's no cutoff time.
Mid last month.
I mean, I mean, I'm elegoo parents.
I'm conscious of time. But I do want to just quickly get your your views on the Dow the trajectory of the dough in the UK, and particularly the Deobandi dow scene that your your roots are from, you know, what would you change about the last few decades? And where do you think it's, it's going, you know, what's your assessment? I think I did. I just want to regarding the word do, Bunty? Yeah. I would just want to mention what one of the elders with the Rafi said, if the Euro feed was the turkeys brother. Yeah. Okay.
So he says, he said, because sometimes we use these just for identification, or sometimes we use them for divide as well, you know, and so he says that, you know, when he qualified as a mathies to put his name, Mufti Rafi with money a deal, Bunty said, he said I was born into one. Yeah, I did hips in do band. So I had the right to. So he says that my father said to me, his father's mostly Sheffield Humberto Lai, who was the grandmother
He said, he said, You know, I don't like this word, Deobandi. I smell the stench of sectarianism from it.
So Durban is the school. Yeah, really.
It's the thing is the adolescent melodrama? Yeah, the adolescent male Gemma. So sometimes, some people know what there is when they say do one D. But sometimes it's like, it's a different kind of group. And it's a useful sectarianism. And when it's used for sectarian that's not how the elders are, he understood it, you know, so, and what happens is that that identification actually sometimes overrides even the Allison ojama you identify more with your body.
So implode self kind of refute people that are closest to you rather than Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So
I think the do one these have done very, very well. Nobody, when it comes to massage it, yeah, modalities, and especially at the Deobandi Gujarati community. You know, we are all indebted to them. We've studied in their modalities, etc. You know, they've done an amazing job up northern massage, etc.
The issue that I find now is that many of the deobandis are very insular.
And I think it's a time we need to reach out to
others. Now, many of the elder here in the UK are Gujarati, you know, duben. These are our Gujaratis. And I think maybe it's something to do with the background that they come from in India because they're a minority. So you look at preservation preservation. Yeah, rather than going out and giving Dawa. Yeah. So I think that's what needs to be changed now. It may work in certain places where Mashallah you have a good environment like do breathe like badly, you know, other places, but it doesn't work everywhere.
so i think i think that's what needs to be done. From that point of view I Mashallah they have the modalities, you know, vast majority of Aloma that you see in the country are products of hamdulillah. But I think now, those are the need to face the challenge. And it could be back to what we're discussing.
And not many of those Alhamdulillah are into polemics and are into controversies. But what we, we our challenges are not braylee vsam Salafism, one needs except our chair, our challenges that our children becoming what
our challenges are, you know, atheism, agnosticism, you know, confusion, our existence, the parameters, you know, self confidence, these are our challenges, and I think that was called a future Obama are ready to face these challenges.
Well, I'm conscious of time. Really, thank you very much for joining, and Zack McFerrin for you guys joining at home as well. Thanks for coming down. coffee's good fun coming back into the office.
I'm not gonna come back very regularly. But
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