Female Scholarship in Islam – A Conversation with Dr. Haifaa Younis
Channel: Yasir Qadhi
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Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah. While earlier he was a happy woman when a man named Mia and found now on Sana vema Alam tener una casa mia module de la linea over the weekend and angry lionpaw wakamiya Sha one FC Leticia Wadhwa in line smart urban Allah to Saku buena vida de tener La Habra. nominatim kurama in Nicaragua hub for B strategy Southern USA Lee only washcloths Emily Sani of COVID totally your will be me. Salam Alikum rahmatullah wa barakato. everyone welcome to our Tuesday night program. And may Allah reward everyone who is joining us It will be a real pleasure if we know where are you joining us
from you can write it on the side you can see where you can put your comments and also we will be taking questions at the end. So if you can write it down, inshallah we will look at and we will do our best to take as much as our last pantano will allow us to hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen gives me a great pleasure today to have our shift here. So call the end, our guest today for our program. hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen, as Islam is spreading everywhere, we are seeing more and more interest in learning more Institutes for India hamdulillah. But at the same time, some things have not changed a lot. Meaning we see some disparity between the number of the Muslim woman who are scholars
versus the men. However, if we go back in our history, we see something may be different. And this is going to be our core discussion today. We'll go back in the history. We're going to see where things changed, why things changed, why we are where we are today. How can we change it our goal all of us in short, LA is number one to please Allah subhana wa tada and number two is to come out with more interest in learning and inshallah more plan on how we can at least make a change. Again, gives me a great pleasure to have chef Victoria safale as our guest May Allah reward him. He's joining us from Epic Masjid in Dallas. And if any of you listening to us have not been in Dallas or have been
in Dallas, but if you have not visited epic or east Plano, I highly recommend you do so beautiful Masjid huge, very welcoming to the woman amazing second floor. And last puntata gave me the pleasure of visiting more than once. Last one just few months before the COVID amazing woman very friendly to the woman push for the learning for the woman so I highly recommend anyone who a lot take you to Dallas. Make sure you visit that Mr. Chef? Yes sir. Absolutely. I don't have to introduce him and everyone knows chef so probably. To me. There is a couple of things in chef Yasuda, which I found unique if you allow me chef so number one and this is the most important thing for me. He is a
carrier of the book of Allah half Ivana ketopia. And I always pray to anyone who Allah give him this pleasure. And this honor, that Al Quran that the Koran world will protect him Jambi army, not only he or she memorize the Quran, he also unique he studied in both parts of the world. So he studied in my dream university that I could not get into when I moved to Saudi is the established University of Medina, and he finished his master's there. Then last Montana brought him back and gave him the opportunity of a PhD at Yale in Islamic Studies theology. So you have the combination and also has the combination of Islamic Studies versus secular studies. Originally, he's a chemical engineering
which I just found out today. Yes, 100 behind me and Allah subhanho wa Taala chose him as the way I look at it into our way more the evening, more pleasing European chef so jazak Allahu Allah May Allah reward the reward you abundantly for joining us said I want to hear from for having me on your show. And May Allah forgive you for that exaggerated praise of me I am an advocate for clear and miskeen the one who is always in need of Allah and sitter and mouth era and ask Allah, Allah that He writes both of our names amongst the Aileen and amongst the people of Philadelphia. Sarah, I want to appreciate all that you have been doing as well. I've heard a lot about your efforts and your data
and your online videos and ask a lot of Georgia to bless you as well. And all
gotta be me Dirac lock along with random the Lamborghini Lamborghini you're missing me. So what I want to start Yes, yesterday we discussed this before, I want you to take us through the history and you are in any one of your
amazing points that I hear from everyone as you go. You're very scientific and you go through history, as we all know, Muslims woman as a scholars was something very well known as early as one roswaal a salt or Saddam was there and the best example is say Dasha, and as a few and we are actually having a whole series In short, it starting in September, covering the lives of the wife of a Swanee Software Center. And we're going to focus on say the Ayesha anymore and her knowledge and like no one of the Missouri said if the knowledge of a CDI show was all collected, it will have been more than the knowledge of every woman. We were from that give us more history about more and more
women who carried the banner of Islamic knowledge became scholars taught spread the knowledge.
So as you correctly pointed out that Islam came with the very explicit commandment to teach both men and women and we have a hadith in Sunni libido and others that our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam saw a particular modeling a teacher that was teaching his wife hafsa, about Rokia and the Prophet system said to her that teach her keytab as well don't just teach her how to look there properly, teach her to do Kitab as well reading and writing. And so this demonstrates very explicitly from the sooner itself, that despite the fact that pre Islam, women were not considered to be receptacles of knowledge. When Islam came explicitly the Prophet sallallahu Sallam commanded
men and women to learn how to read and to learn to become basically scholars and polymath, as you correctly pointed out, that I should have the law why not just show Miss Ella, and so many of the other Sahaba yet they are narrators of Hadith and they're also for the hat in which they had that they would give fretwork as well. And this is something that is well known throughout early Islam throughout the many centuries of our scholarship, you will hardly find an item of repute except that there are Shay Hart amongst the people who taught him and the list goes on and on. For example, it is mentioned that in hottie bulbous Daddy, one of the greatest scholars of the dead and who wrote
over 40 volumes, about 30 helpers that one of his main teachers was thought Hara Binti Ahmed tendo here who died for 36 hegira. And also remember that Hubby, he had one of the famous scholars, Shea hot as his teachers as well. And he mentioned that this Shea Hosanna
Hosanna even Yeah, I've been there is not the SAM she was the granddaughter of the cinema that she was in Ibiza, he there are Lima that people would come and recite to her ahaadeeth and she would be giving you jazz that he said till the day that she died the day that you passed away. She had had a part in that she was teaching and also a bit hedger as Kalani. Can you believe one of even hedges teachers was the grand niece of shareholders Some even Tamia even Tamia is nice was ha ha. Her name was Xena Binti Abdullah Ibn Abdul Halim, Eben Tamia. And so from the Tamia family, one of the you know, great granddaughters of that stay Mia obviously shuffled assembly Tamia is the going to be the
uncle of this this person, and how far they've been hedger has an ijazah from this Shay Hall. And again, we can go on and on. Even Tamia himself had a number of female teachers that we find in his sector in his ijazah. As I said, you would be hard pressed to find any famous alum, except that amongst his teachers, you will find in their ijazah to this day, they're preserved in their ages that, you know, females a few weeks ago, I interviewed Dr. Akram nadwi. And Dr. alkanet, we, you should all be aware that he has finished a large compilation that is said he told us there's over 40 volumes panel, I don't know how is going to be printed and published. But over 40 volumes of them
will head the thoughts of the female scholars of Hadith. Throughout all of the centuries he has compiled an encyclopedia of every single female narrative Haddad that he found, and he has over 40 volumes and he said himself and she is a more head this himself of the highest caliber, and he is a great scholar, somebody whom I consider to be a mentor. And he told me himself that his own ijazah throughs for Sahil Bahati, the highest is not that he has in the one of the highest in the world. He has his highest it's not it goes through a female as well. So certainly
Hello, when you look at the past, you do find women that again, to be honest here and you know today's talk. I mean, those who know me know, I'm going to be very frank and honest here because there's no point sugarcoating. There's no question that we had famous on the mat. To be fair, though, obviously, it wasn't 5050 I mean, that was the point I was gonna say, you know, maybe 510 percent but still, much more than now. There's no question about it right? That you had famous admet who are narrating Hades teaching karate, and this was something that was well known. You find in other hobbies study, if you find in even hedges, history, histories, you find plenty of halaqaat in
the main masajid of the city in the Jamia of Baghdad, in that of Damascus, you find mention of women teaching in fact, Dr. Akram told me something that I did not even know he said that he found I forgot the era, he found in one of the books of history that even in the masjid of the Prophet salallahu, alayhi wasallam for periods of time, there were more head d'etat female scholars of Hadith teaching, Now obviously, properly dressed, but teaching the men and this is something that even I did not know of. And he found this in one of the books that he says that there were famous scholars of Hadith, the only female scholars who became so famous and so well learned that there
will also be teaching the men as well. So the question does come, you know, Subhanallah what exactly happened? And I guess we're going to get to this point. But to answer your first question, indeed, anybody who studies Islamic history, and anybody who studies the the quantity of scholars and their biographies, you will know firsthand that there was a healthy percentage. And again, like I said, it's not 5050 but still, every generation of early Islam, medievalist and every generation, it had famous scholars, and those scholars, you will find them as the teachers, the Shahada, Mohammad d'etat the mockery out of all of the famous Roma that whose names we are familiar with.
Yes, yes. So this will take me as I as I'm hearing listening to you, and there is much more than when I was actually also reviewing what you were just sharing is like we reach to about the 10th injury. And then things went differently.
What happened? And this is always the question everyone asked, What's happened? So I don't know if it's only the 10th and Mr. masucci? Well, I guess the 911 hedgerows have a CLT as well. And he he has female teachers, I remember reading about this as well. And I was reading his biography. And we find this as well. I mean, by the way, even I have a female teachers still the Shea who talked to me, what should I have multiple images. So the shapefile that I recited was two issues a female and I got my, my ages and watched from her. So it's still here, but it's not to the way or to the quantity that it used to be. You know, I'm going to be honest here because, again, that's my style.
As you know, you're asking me for a cause for a reason why this change occurred? I asked Dr. Akram the same thing, because I don't know. And his answer is an opinion. I think it might be a cause. But with my utmost love and respect, I don't think it is the only cause. Dr. Akram said that the main cause now this is very interesting. And it requires a little bit of unpacking the main cause, he said was the introduction of Greek philosophy into Muslim lands. Why? Because he said, The ancient Greeks were the ones who did not consider women to be worthy of scholarship or education or whatnot. And so that notion of women being trivialized did not emanate from Islam, it came from Hellenistic
sources. Now that is his opinion.
I find that to be a little bit too mono causa like you there must be other factors as well. It's not just that one thing. And I I am not an expert in social history to give you an expert opinion. However, my my instinct has been just by reading history and reading the the Wyatt that we find that especially in the last 200 years in particular, there has been this particularly
very clear cut swerving away towards a very ultra conservative stance towards men and women and towards their interaction. And I think and again, I need to say very clearly before I move on that obviously I have my views you have your views. Let no one read in that time saying more than what I'm actually saying I am actually in terms of the modern trends of feminism and what I have a more nuanced position. I don't agree with a lot of third wave feminism. I need to put that out there before we move on.
But of course first wave feminism, it's it's different where there's a lot of aspects that are Islamic there. So please don't read in a doctor UCLA made the same disclaimer that as well.
We're saying here, we are arguing for Islamic femininity. we're arguing for the true status that Allah subhana wa Taala has bestowed upon our sisters, our mothers, our daughters, and I am arguing unabashedly and unashamedly, that modern Muslims, by and large, have abandoned the rights that Allah has given our sisters by arguing that I am not encouraging the villa third wave feminism. So, I need to be very clear in this regard some simple examples, and again, excuse me for being blunt here, but it needs to be said, if you look at any of the modern, you know, traditionalist movements, whether they're, you know, Salafism or the abunda ism or any of these movements, and you look at how their,
their perceptions are of religiosity and gender, you find that even the Sahaba did not have that understanding of gender and segregation as the modern you know, these movements do that the Sahaba were far more tolerant and called it open minded, far more understanding of you know, like, for example, I remember when I was in in Serbia, for example, and I'm sure you live there as well you know, this that the the concept of men women, segregation is so harsh, are so market that even the name of a lady is not supposed to be mentioned by her father, her husband, her brother, like you, you use it inventor, cornea, and you like you, it's as if her existence is completely unmentionable,
right there's a psychological reality, of course, in the time of the Sahaba that's not the case at all, you know, the famous had eaten in the in the in the Sudan that somebody knocked on the door, the prophet system, I shake him and say, do sudo la Xena was at the door. She didn't say ami Fulani Zeynep is at the door. And our Prophet system said I use a nav. I know a lot of Zeno's which Zeynep is at the door, right? This notion of you know, I mean, if you read Hamlet Binti jash the Sahaba and how she would argue when she needed to get something in front of the Prophet sallallahu How do you send them and no Sahabi you know, said anything? How dare you argue your case? If and of course the
famous one of all of us know, this is a it's a narration there that the lady stood up when the pro and Omar was giving the hotbar and she intervened and said how can you deny Mahara? You know, when Allah azza wa jal has has allowed, you know, unlimited Ma, she's arguing for not modern feminism. She's arguing for Islamic femininity. She's arguing for the rights that Allah subhana wa tada has given and again, all you need to just look at the sila poverty, student activity, you find, for example, Ole Miss element. I mentioned this rewind many times, or Miss selama, asking a very, very blunt question. And I say, if any lady dared ask the same question, in most of our religious
gatherings, the men and the Roma would shun would castigate would get angry at this lady. But only Selma asked our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam she said Yasuda law. Why does the law only mention men and not women, even though we also did the hijra, and we also do this and that and we also do good deeds. And we also now sup Hannah law. This is not evil feminism. This is humanity. Like she's wondering, where am I in the equation? How come I'm not mentioned? And I've done what other men have done. And because of this question, the Prophet did not castigate her the Prophet system did not rebuke her. None of the Sahaba said, How dare you? Cofer question Allah, she's asking
a legitimate and innocent question. And she is saying basically that Where is my mention? I want to know it as well. And because of her question, Rita cielo poverty, that poverty says and this is integrity and others that allowed reveal not one, not two, three verses in response to her legitimate question right. First the Java hombre boom, Nila or the Rama there are many men coming they're carrying a bow. Welcome, min bow fella Deena Hi, Joe. This is what she has here. So we did hijra we were kicked out of our houses. We did good deeds. Fernandina, hydro, what did you mean the idea What? What parts are what could you do in Africa? So the point being that, you know, we need to
ask ourselves and I have been asking myself this question as well for the longest time. And by the way, it's not just feminism and sorry, feminism and gender roles. It's over all modern Islamic Renaissance or modern Islamic revival. It has certain characteristics that we do not find in early Islam 500 years ago, this obsession, for example, with what I consider to be very minor 50 issues and again, when you look at the brother side, for example, it's the same mentality, always worried about how you look or the length of your beard or something of this nature, and not worried about your high near spirituality. So we find problem of the so word of conceptual
realizing what is religiosity, and we find that many people have an understanding of religiosity, especially when it comes to gender roles that is simply not in accordance with even how the Sahaba used to live their own lives. And this is something that one of the biggest problems that happens is that when some of our more religious minded people go to one side, there is going to be a counter reaction to the other side. And I and I clearly state and I have stated multiple times, if our own of today, if the men in charge today do not to give our sisters and our mothers and our daughters the rights that Allah has legitimately given them, then don't be surprised when they reject your
interpretation. And they go and embrace interpretations that have nothing to do with our faith. Because for every action, there's going to be a counter reaction. And if you're going to deprive our sisters of the book of Allah, Subhana, WA, tada, don't be surprised when many of them, they they latch on to not even third wave, but fourth wave feminism, they latch on to understandings that really are antithetical to our Shetty. So I think I over answered your question, but if you have any, I don't know it, please comment as well, the only doctor if I don't want to be the one we're talking? No, actually, I was looking at some studies yesterday, you know, like, I'm a physician. So
we look for studies to be scientific 10% of the physicians in the United States are Muslims. And I was really looking to see what percentage of these Muslim positions are women, I couldn't find that. But I can give you any May Allah forgive me, but I'm not very accurate. From what I see, if I see 40% of these Muslim women in the United States are physician. So it's not a matter of education. And I'm talking about the West. So why this not 40% is the same applies when we come to the Muslim woman scholar is it and I'll share with you a personal thing. And when I moved to Saudi to study, I'm already an OB GYN. And I cannot tell you how many times I heard the following while you are doing
this. One of my colleagues said this to me, how much they will pay you more
is that one of the reasons is not because men and women only is the way we look at Islamic Studies.
And take it further. When a woman takes the same degree as a man
when she comes back.
And I heard this again, who will hire her? Is that another reason? You think?
Like, look at I'm sorry, look at the resident scholars in massage. What is the percentage of men to woman?
Is that another issue?
I think you have a legitimate question to ask. And you are correct that there are cultural perceptions of what a woman should or should not do. And these are questions I mean, and again, I mean, I myself have gone through my phases. 2530 years ago, I too was taught to this by my own, you know, the the cultures that we were exposed to. And that's what you are taught. And by the way, it's easy to talk, I speak to the men here, it's very easy to talk when you're 18 1920, get married, and then have daughters, and then see for yourself the world through their eyes in particular, it will open up it will sympathize now, not that it should you should be able to do this on your own. But I
speak from my own experiences that, you know, obviously having daughters changes the situation immensely as well, because you began to realize some of the stuff you were saying when you were 20. Now you have daughters are like, Hey, hold on a sec, you know, does that really match up to my own lived experience in reality? So, you know, you ask some very hard hitting questions. And I think that these are very frank conversations. I don't have easy answers. Because here's the point and I know you you agree with Dr. heifers that we both know that, you know, spiritually speaking in terms of humanity, many women are 100% equal in our show, do we know that both of them have equal
opportunities to get to gender, we know that the insomnia is absolutely the same, that if Allah azza wa jal chose the soul to enter the body of a woman or the body of a man, the soul worth is exactly the same. We know this, at the same time, in terms of the gender roles, the default roles, the gender obligations, right? There are differences that are complimentary, right? We agree to this. So now, we're not going to solve this problem in one conversation. But what needs to happen is the open mindedness of all sides of the equation to come together and have a frank conversation? How do we navigate the gender roles and expectations from the Sharia, from our society and from my personal
life because there are three separate
things, you know, because the first is what is Allah subhanho? wa Taala requiring and recommending the two are separate things, there's a requirement and then there's a recommendation. And then the second, what is society expecting? And then the third, what do I myself want as an individual society periods, family as well. And these three need to work in harmony. Obviously, the job of a law is always, you know, effective throughout. But after this, we need to work in harmony, we need to see, not every woman is able to do what other women are able to not every man is able to do every man is able to do the circumstances of a woman are different than the circumstances of a man. That
doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It is simply factually correct. I mean, you're talking about the University of Medina, whether you are I like it or not, since its inception, it has been a male institution, it is just a reality. I cannot change them.
It is what it is like, it's not something I requested or whatnot. It is what it is one of the most prestigious one of the most academic, and I thank allies origin for having, you know, I've had the opportunity to to walk in this halls for 10 years, that opportunity could theoretically be given to my sons, but not to my daughters. Obviously, that has an impact on Islamic scholarship. The same applies for the majority of actual accredited seminaries and universities in the Muslim world, that merely to study there itself is different if you're a man versus woman, right. And then you have the logistical issues. So that's not the same as a young man to go abroad and leave your parents and
families. Again, let's be realistic here, a 19 year old, it's not the same, to leave your family to leave your country and to go to another foreign land. So and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm simply describing it as it is there are expectations, there are issues to do with the issues of jobs, issues of marriage. And again, this is not, this is not a validation of status quo. It is that we need to have an honest conversation and I don't have solutions. A 19 year old man goes to study in Medina, there is no question in sha Allah that when he comes back, he'll be able to find a job, you know, find a wife find a face start a family, no problem. Okay? A 19 year old lady, suppose you
were to go to some Islamic University somewhere, right? Many people would say that's the prime of her life to find a husband. Many people would say this, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Many people would say she's now going to limit her her choices. career wise, she's limited to choices husband wise. And these are, there are perceptions out there. I don't mean, and again, this is not a validation, I'm simply saying it like it is are telling you like it is. So
That's what really surprised me. When I have this conversation. If this 19 years old, he wanted to go to study medicine. It's okay. So I think this is how I look at it. And please correct me if I'm wrong. I think number one, the way we look at Islamic study in general needs to be changed. This came from you know, this, and the other side of the Atlantic, where people who studied religion, in general is not they are not looked at the same as lawyer or physician or professionals. Am I correct? It's you're absolutely correct. Exactly. And I think this is one part of the 19 year old who go and apply to medical school people will not say, well, you have to think of your marriage and
everything, but if she wants to go and study, and I think this is one of the solutions that remember we talked about what solution is number one, I think, is we as a Muslim Ummah, parents specifically, and young needs to look at this, maybe I will not get much Indonesia, and in these days, and Hungary Lego brand, and even you will. But this we have to look at the art here. Also, this woman is even if she didn't study any way she did not get hired anywhere, what effect she will have inside her house. I think that part is absolutely forgotten. Because the children, this is their mother, that's forgotten, and people will look at how much you will get paid or who will hire you. And number two,
and this is exactly the opposite. Now you see, and that's what I need you to comment. Now we see the opposite is like if there is any conference, we have to have a woman there.
Five minutes, it makes me happy, but it shouldn't be based on gender. It should be based on qualification. Is this woman or that man qualified to stand up and speak? What do you say about that thing that we are now also seeing? So obviously, this is the very difficult question of representation. It applies. This is a conversation that's happening across this country, especially in education universities hiring slot, you know, there was a recent court case as well. I think the supreme court also ruled about this.
Even the ivy League's are talking about
about this, there's sometimes a differentially treating certain backgrounds or certain ethnicities versus others. And this is a very again, we're not going to solve this, you hit the nail on the head, but at the same time, whatever anybody says, you're going to have critics on the other side, right? So, one part of me definitely sympathize with what you said. And another part realizes that if I were to say the same thing, it would not be taken to the same way. So you're absolutely correct that these are very difficult conversations. And I don't have an easy answer. But you know, and realize there are a number of you know, Mashallah female admins that have graduated from seminaries
that have studied across the Muslim world, the number of people I've studied from it does have a female system. So there are people in America Alhamdulillah, and there are traditionally trained so as we know, Islamic clergy or clerical being a Shahar, alima You don't have to go through an accredited institution, an accredited institution helps no doubt about that. But you can find it through the header or through the, through the circles here. And I would say that those you know, of our sisters that are interested interested in that field Subhanallah, there has never been a time in our human history, where knowledge is as easily accessible, as in our times, the technologies that
are available to all of us that you can avail yourself to, you don't have to go to Timbuktu, or sort of the US or the EU or China to study in, you can do so in your home. And you have Misha Shay has and shake hearts across the globe. And you have the internet and you can phone call, and you can do FaceTime, and you can do one on one, and you can absorb and you can download PDFs, Where there is a will there is a way and so, you know you're right, there have been a lot of impediments. And I say our sisters are just as intellectually called qualified to be on the mat for the heart more for Serato had the third mockery out as our brothers. Allah did not create the intellectual capabilities
differently. There is no difference. A lady can become a family and so I say Bismillah Yola, the door is open for men and women compete with each other festival hierarchy, you know, go ahead and get into this race. And you know what, there were excuses that could have been used 100 years ago. Now let's shut off those excuses. And now show us in sha Allah to Allah show us that indeed, you have done the sciences, you have memorized the Quran, you have obtained the agenda, you have studied the books, you have done one course after another. And then through an acquittal, how a scholarship demonstrated is through how the author's writings start writing, started preaching and teaching, and
your peers will recognize you, your peers are going to see that talent and Mashallah to byculla push you forward. Of course, do it for the sake of Well, obviously, first and foremost, it must be a class, but I am saying, you know what you need doctor for you? Absolutely right. There's some, you know, they got to shorten the stick. But you know, what there were there's a welder's away, and I will be the first and I know many of my colleagues will be the first to encourage, and those of the sisters that have taken a mocha with me back in the day, they know, we would say this all the time, that we want our sisters, when most of them started, by the way, you know, back in 2004 2005 One of
the things that was a bit of an issue was that you're going to have women in the same room as men in Islamic Studies, this was one of the back then it was still unheard of, like you're gonna have any, you know, men and women sitting together, studying in. And we were like, of course, that's how it used to be throughout Islamic history. They're sitting, of course, one side, we're not sitting literally next to each other, but that's the way it's supposed to be. And at hamdulillah we have graduated, you know, so many hundreds of our students from Monroe Institute, of course, now with the Islamic seminary of America, and we have female students over there as well. My point is, the sky's
the limit Bismillah where there's a welder's away, most important thing sincerity, and then put in the effort put in the effort, no one can stop you do your sister and your brother, no one can stop you on this earth. If Allah has written for you that you will attain genuine scholarship you are able to do so from your own house from your own room, you're able to do so. So this middler open up the books, open up the book of Allah, start studying with teachers and listening to lectures and start benefiting and gaining from whatever resource that you have and inshallah you will slowly but surely have an impact on other people. And I want to add may allottee word is beautifully said and
shallot would have impact on people if I can add from again, a personal experience. And this is because this is a more law. This is the knowledge of law, there will be much more obstacles than when the chi compare when I studied medicine, you probably compare when you studied engineering versus when you study there anymore for law. A law will test you in every step. And the first thing he will test and I'm saying this to everyone who wants to take this path, he will test you on it
Lost your sincerity? Are you doing this for me? Me meaning a lost Montana? Or are you doing it for junior? Junior usuba so the first thing is that a class is absolutely and the more hard it gets. Just be patient and continue. Don't give up. Well, Edina tjahaja Hina energy Ando sabudana those who struggle for us a lot will, we will guide them soon and I will make our path easy for them. There's a question I got here chef, which I think I shared it with you, I found it interesting. And it is actually the comments of the book of
Chef nadwi about the Mojave Desert and the question came in and says, Why there is a very well known Mojave Desert very well known and as you mentioned, the 40 volume of a ship module. However, there is no books written by a woman although Seder Ayesha and I, when I was, again, looking for this is even the keyboard Sahaba they used to ask her in St. Norma, when it comes to fit, or the the things related, the personnel matters inside the house of Rasul Allah, he sought to Assam he goes to her, where is it? Why we don't have it? So, you know, that's a question that, you know, where are these books that have bet that, you know, should have been written? And I think there is no easy response.
But what can be said is that it's not just in our societies that women would not write books, even in the Western world, even in Europe, when when men were writing books, women, generally speaking, did not become authors. And if you look at famous women, authors of the 15th 16th 17th century, you basically find nobody whose name is known. That's why Jane Austen only 150 years ago, 160 years ago became famous because, you know, she was one of the first female human writers, Emily, you know, Braunton all over the Bronte sisters again, that's literally 150 years ago, before that point in time, society did not and this is not this is just the way it was. I'm not saying it's right.
Society did not, did not have that notion of women being authors. And so they just the way they accepted it, and I guess the way they dealt with it. So that's why as I said, when, you know, Jane Austen and others, when they did what they did, initially, some of them even had male pseudonyms, right? They didn't What didn't want to publish their their books under female names, and their editors even would tell them that's not going to sell if this is in Europe 150 years ago, then understandably as well, the world was a different place. So you're absolutely right. And and that there's no need to continue that though. And again, I say, that was the past. Okay, we can look at
it and say that the way it was, it should not be an excuse for how we deal with the future. There is nothing wrong with a female Danny Shay Halima 40, homophones. Sara writing and benefiting the people just because no 40 had eaten in the past should not stop in the future. And in fact, dare I say that 50 needs for the hearts that our chapters have filled some of them. In fact, you should not even be the man should not even be in charge of it. I remember when I was first studying in Medina, first year, and I stayed with one of the big scholars over there in Chicago, the aside of all that, however, the major scholars, he passed away very shortly after I came, but I got a few a few months
with him. And we were doing I was a new student, we were doing the fifth of menstruation. And we were studying all of the quads, and the lowest and the highest and the maximum and this and that. And we were memorizing which each madhhab has a different opinion, what is the lowest, and our chef and he goes, You know what? All of this is cut out of the men. We shouldn't have to listen to it now. We have to go to the render man and the woman. We have to go and find out what this is what Yeah, and what did the classical shout for isn't humble? Isn't somebody and the Hanafi men think, what is the lowest number of menses, the maximum number of men says what is the column higher than
100? to her and whatnot? There is no Quran and Sunnah about those numbers, as any student of knowledge knows how to just basically said, Look, all of these numbers, we just have to get rid of them, and now get to maternity get this knowledge from the specialists and from our sisters as well. And the same goes for so many issues as well, that I think that our some of our chapters have fixed, our sisters have to take the lead, and in all of the chapters of our sisters can benefit us from perspectives from, you know, facts and whatnot that maybe you know, people on the other side of the gender aisle are not going to be aware of. So definitely, again, I state whatever happened in the
past happen. Let's not use that as an excuse for our future endeavors. It's very interesting what you said yesterday, because so Pamela, and me a lot your share copy of it exactly happened to me, but we were in a gathering with one of the real and scholars, the scholars and they went to ask him about something about football and he said, go ahead and ask Dr. heifer if she tells you
It's my situation that I can tell you the answer. And it's lots of unknowns. If I know this menstruation then I know I agree with you. But let's come to the solution handler a lot of Baraka in our time. This is the impeachment, I see it. And we covered some of it. But number one, I want you as an appraiser, as hamdulillahi Rabbil aalameen, may Allah preserve you, and they shall make your deeds Holly satyajeet, Carrie, and as a man or woman, you're a biani as a person who is one of the leaders of Muslims in the Western world, what message they want to hear from you today, the masajid that we have different I mean, I have somebody who literally texted me and says they don't even
allow us to go to the masjid. What do you say to these people, and coming from you.
I want to be as blunt as possible to the leaders of the Muslim communities, the men that are on the boards of the massage the people in charge of the centers of learning, especially in the Western world, being very frank here. If you are going to deprive your own daughters, from the rights that Allah subhanho wa Taala has given them, if you're going to deprive from them the right to go to the masjid, the right to be in the same types of facilities as the brothers are the right to attend the halaqaat. And the rules, the right to feel a part of a Muslim society, then don't be surprised when they reject religiosity, when you have to be law, I have met not one, not 10, dozens, maybe even
hundreds of young ladies that have if not left the faith, that they are following a version of the faith that is so alien to what I think is the correct version. And when you go and ask them why or what's going on. It is a counter reaction to how they were treated within the massage how they were treated by their own communities, when their own communities will not give them even breathing space, when their own communities demonize them when their own communities make them feel that they are less than human beings and are worthy of human beings not to be seen not to be spoken to not to have a valid place, then don't be surprised. And it's not right, but it is going to happen. Don't be
surprised when they turn their backs. And that is not right of them to do that. Because they should also raise the bar and put their trust in Allah, not their communities. But still not everybody has that level of demand. And that perception, some of our brothers and sisters when you're not going to welcome them within the Islamic realm. Don't be surprised when they reject your version of Islam. And then either I will double and leave the faith which is what we are seeing or invent a version that is alien to the spirit of Islam. This is what we are seeing in North America and across the the Western world, dare I say even the Muslim world now let's be honest here. It's not as there's only
in the Western world. And we have to navigate a very difficult reality that we find ourselves in, we understand the world has changed, we understand that notions of gender, even gender itself is up for grabs. Now, right? We understand everything is being redefined. We need to have very brave and frank conversations. What does the law require of each gender? What is the ideal but not a requirement, which is recommended, but we're allowed to renegotiate? And what is cultural and not even recommended? There are different levels I just mentioned four or five of them here. We need to have very frank questions one by one go through and see for ourselves, you know, what exactly is it that
the Sharia is mandating? And what is the shediac encouraging and what is the culture encouraging but not to share? What do I myself want and not one and all of these have to you know, play a role in the individual decision. But if the boards and if the Imams and if to show you, some of them in Charlotte hamdullah the next generation of scholars is very different than the the previous month. But if they are going to maintain this level of pseudo religiosity that even the Sahaba did not have if they are going to import a notion of gender segregation and gender roles that is alien to the spirit of Islam. Then the counter reaction is that our sisters as well are going to embrace a notion
of gender roles that is alien to the spirit of Islam, and that is exactly what we're seeing. So please brothers please imams into art please for the sake of the future of this oma understand that we need to rethink through have a very frank conversation without ever infringing on the explicit commandments of Allah and His Messenger we firmly believe what they said that could occur. We firmly believe that the jelly not see what it is that you see, but we also believe in them and establish a cortical region. Men are the twin has a women women are the twin halves of men. We believe in all of the new souls we don't cut an ace between one and two. We believe that certain rulings are needed
non negotiable, and other rulings, we can rethink through. So that's what the conversation needs to take place. And I, again, urge every person in charge to think long and hard. And don't appease just the 1015 people that are coming for federal law, and the ones that you think are going to be the ones that are going to be the most angry. No, you have to save the Islam and Eman of those not coming to the massage and not just those that are coming to the massage the elders, their amount of hamdulillah has already confirmed they're the ones coming regularly. How about the children of those elders? How about the grandchildren of those elders? You cannot just appease your base that is
donating to the masjid. You have to think long and hard. You have to think the next generation without exaggerating the future of Islam. The preservation of Islam is how the social reality of how you construct your question of how welcoming it is of the type of kudos you give of the hot leaves that you invite how your children are raised in the masjid. For many semi practicing families, the only time they hear of Islam is in the masjid. So the experiences they get in the masjid, are literally going to dictate whether the next generation remains in Islam or doesn't remain in Islam. I appeal to the boards and to the Imams. Think of those groups. Don't just think to your fan base
that is going to come to the fundraisers and coming to the budget setup. And again, it'd be irritated if a sister comes in. And again, this is the reality. I know you didn't ask me this question. But I need to say this very, very bluntly that in the world that we live in, in North American context, in particular, we cannot impose strict regulations on women who come to our massages, because their EMA is more important to save than their headscarf. This is a blunt reality. Agreed there must be some levels of modesty. We're not going to allow a lady to come in wearing our we rely on a miniskirt or something but still, if she's wearing a pant and shirt, if her hijab is a
little bit loose, she's coming from college, you know rushing in for salah and then rushing out. We need to understand Okay, we're not agreeing that this is ideal, but at the same time, she doesn't have to be in the question. She's driving away from wherever she is. And she's wanting to connect to Allah subhanho wa Tada. We cannot come between her and that connection at that level. And if somebody does need to it should be after a few times. It shouldn't be one she's comfortable, it should be with a friend. And then they'll see has given by the right person in the right time in the right manner. We have become obsessed with the outer reality of the woman's garb. And we've
forgotten that the Hey jobs commandments came down in the fourth or fifth year of the hijra years after the solar years after the gap years after the the fasting. It was one of the final obligations that came down. So why don't we start with those Imani yet those who are handy yet those four are ill and then work our way up onto the verse of hijab. And by the way, of course hijab is obligatory but Subhana Allah, did you read the verse of hijab? I'm talking I know, Dr. Heffley, obviously, did you read the verses of hijab, which two names does allow us in the very verse of hijab, which two names there's a lot conclude the very verse of hijab, it is and Raheem, why what might you what you
would have thought maybe he should have said Aziz in a city or something of this nature, you know, or, but a lot of food and, and I'm not allowed to build that trivializing. But you know, Dear brothers, and I speaking to the brothers here, let's be honest here, you most of you have exaggerated the status of the job to be the indicator of piety, the sole indicator of piety, and how many ladies are there that don't wear the hijab, and their hearts are full of evil position, and backbiting and whatnot, and how many are ladies are struggling with the hijab, but their hearts are pure for their fellow Muslims. And that is the better this is not to say that obviously, hijab is
not an indication it is an indication, I'm not going to go the route of those that say, we don't judge wearing the hijab overall is better than not wearing the hijab, no question about it, but the hijab is not the ultimate PhD and he has a PhD the the pH level, I was gonna say peace of mind, My Chemical Engineering, my PhD came together. It's not the litmus test of one's EMA. The hijab is not the ultimate litmus test. And it is one of the aspects that Allah has made obligatory, but it is not the biggest obligation. So we need to especially brothers, unless she's your blood sister, unless she's your own daughter or your wife. It's not your job to comment on another lady how she dresses
or not, you just be quiet. Let those that are involved with that particular sister do so even if you're on the board of the masjid and a sister comes to pray that's between her and Allah and let the sisters deal with her within the sisters.
realm in a manner that is dignified and decent, let the brothers Be quiet because you will potentially turn her away, not just from the hijab, but from religion and you will have to answer to Allah subhanho wa Taala for that harshness, dear and I know I'm going on and on. But you have really
you've touched a wound me because I've had to deal with this over the many years that I've been here that I've seen this firsthand even in some of the massages that I was with a long time ago. Not not the current massage, but you see this all the time. Dear, dear brother, let me let me just remind you one thing that I'll hand it back to Dr. Haifa. So panela what is worse? A sister wearing a loose hijab walking to the masjid or somebody urinating in the center of the masjid? What is worse? Tell me. We all know it's worse urination. And why is it then that you don't understand that our Prophet system was merciful? To the Bedouin who urinated in the center of the masjid? How How can you not
connect the dots here? That the better one comes in? And he lifts up his garment? And he urinates smack dab in the middle of the masjid. Right.
You see what I'm heading with this? Our Prophet says have understood. Look, okay, this isn't right. But we need to get this person's heart We need to get his he man if we're harsh, we might cause him to lose his he man well law he our sister we're not wearing the perfect he is a million times better than the veteran urinating in the smack dab in the middle of the carpet of the semester they imagine right? If our profit system can show kindness to somebody urinating, then surely we can show also kindness to a sister who's in your perception whether because again, the issue comes, in all likelihood she is okay in her hijab, but your version of the hijab is not in accordance with with
her understanding. Anyway, I hope I didn't go beyond I apologize. But
you know you you addressed it beautifully to the brothers and and me as a woman. And I want to address my beautiful sisters. In case you're faced with this and I agree with you chef hacer it's not uncommon, unfortunately, judgmental, not welcoming. You hear it a lot. May Allah forgive us all. If I was one day, that person, I want to say one thing to the sisters, you are coming to the house of law, your movements, your steps that's taking you to that house, you will be rewarded. When someone prevented you from going in a lot, we're still reward you because a lot of reward on your intention. Don't let this B as you mentioned a way where shaitan is going to come to you and push
you away from a law. On the contrary, keep turning to a line say you're a law, this door was closed, open another door for me and you never know what will happen. Because that's sometimes extremely important for the woman and that applies to the youth also. But this is not the subject of today. Same thing for the youth
and ethnic minorities as well. It's like people
when you come to the masjid don't look at who's the who's the Imam or who's the board. Look at this is the house of Allah. He decided he doesn't want you to come to him in his house. But that doesn't mean he doesn't want to because he is as you said, Allah. Allah dude in Nairobi, or de buena Dude, look to him and say oh, law yard law there is a reason you didn't want me to get in. open another door for me. Y'all don't be me. And this is extremely important for the sisters because as you said, the core of this Deen and please correct me if I'm wrong here she the core of this Deen is the connection with a loss. And unfortunately, the more the more we are living, the more we see this is
being I wouldn't say completely lost but it's not focused. We focus on the external, but the relationship with Allah subhanho wa Taala. So that's number one. Number two, what advice you give as a person who traveled person who studied from the man's point of view to the fathers who their daughter wants to study wants to park and go to as her
she cannot go to Medina. And she was not going to be as lucky as I am because I worked and studied. That's how I was able to study what advice you give to them.
We need female scholarship role models we need alamat for the heart mufa surat for my daughters and your daughters for the entire Muslim oma. We need our sisters, our daughters to demonstrate for the rest of not just the female community but also for the brothers as well. Because like I said, I have no doubt that we are lacking us the brothers we are lacking
Certain aspects because we don't have enough female representation to bring to us certain perspective certain Magomed certain tangent certain paradigms, that is not a part of our, the way that we think Allah created men and women slightly differently though and we complement one another. So when we put together our resources, we will raise the bar of this oma. So I speak as the father of two sons and two daughters. I want role models for my children in all the fields I want them to find a Muslim man or a Muslim lady in all the fields and especially in the Islamic fields. And therefore, if you have a daughter that Mashallah wants to study Islam, then you know, take care of
her help her you know, go yourself if you're worried and drop her off and make sure everything is fine and inshallah you know, the the the Islamic universities that do have female systems obviously, you don't have that other very well. Yeah, no, you know, they have facilities that are at home that are very safe, very, I understand. The father might be worried in that regard. But generally speaking, go yourself, see for yourself, but don't come between your daughter and her aspirations to learn the religion of Allah subhana wa Tada. You never know we are in such need, we are in dire need in this generation in particular, of what it means to have role models that demonstrates what it
means to truly be a Muslim or Islamic femininity is something that is a rare commodity again, you know, Dr. Hyman and myself and we
we are against third wave feminism again, you know, this we're not happy with that. But then what's the alternative? We don't want any not to be to drugs. We don't want the ultra fundamentalist methodology as well. So what is that happy middle? We need lots of *ing hot our demographer Sirat that are demonstrating what it means to be a committed Muslim, obeying the laws of Allah subhana wa tada mastering the books of Hadith and Sharia and demonstrating what it means to be a modern Muslim, a lady who is absorbed with her Jewish tradition, and Alhamdulillah exuding Islamic femininity. You know, I have said this multiple times in public lectures to my Muslim sisters, that dear sisters in
Islam, as a society as a culture, you are the last remnants of true femininity on Earth, as a society. No other group no other nation is exuding what it means to be female. The honor there is a being a female of why Jenna is under your feet and not under our feet. Show us and demonstrate for us why that is the case. But in order for you to do that, dear fathers are going to have to also allow your daughters to reach their potential Dear brothers, you're gonna have to support your sisters, not just your blood sisters, your biological your your gender, sisters overall, accommodate for them, allow them to do what they're doing, when they come back facilitate for them as well
positions, jobs roles. And also as we pointed out, having families careers marriages, all of this should go hand in hand. And of course, that's a whole different issue. But too many brothers are intimidated by women who are more qualified than them. And this is a major problems panelists a major problem that I know that's not the topic, so let's just talk about it. But how to look at that question. You cannot see it yourself. But we promised my allotting words everybody who's joining us we have people from all over the world that we're going to take the questions and it is already an hour so I have to fulfill one promise and this is and she says when the masjid was opened during the
pandemic era, some people has discouraged woman from going to the masjid which is a true including ours.
I went here I have I answered this question but I needed to come from you.
So you know, our Masjid is Plano Masjid, we never we never stopped women from coming It was very clear for Jumeirah for eat for pleasure for Asia, we have a sister section and in fact, we talked about this. And I was adamant that we must allow women to come and at hamdulillah epic and the board is very much on the same wavelength as this. So there was never an issue. So we did not stop. You're correct. There are a number of massages across the country did this. And I understand where they're coming from. In this sense. From their perspective, they were saying that Joomla is obligatory for the men and it's not really good or for the women. And I understand that they are using a legitimate
paradigm. I'm not dismissing I'm not critical of that. I simply state that I would rather that the masjids do multiple Jamal's and accommodate the brothers in that regard, and still have space for the sisters because times have changed. And for many of our sisters, this is the only time they get to feel a part of a community to hear the speech of Allah subhana wa tada recited to get some sense of religiosity times have changed and I think that we do need to look at here Muslim
Henry faster than this regard. I'm not saying that we, you know, we split the mesh to the 5050 because at the end of the day, not every woman does come for Juma. I'm not saying that but give a healthy percentage, you know of the space to the women. And if need be, then have multiple, you know, Jim Marrs because again,
this is something that, okay, it's a bit of a sacrifice. But pretty much almost every machine can have another hottie or the same healthy it can, you know, do this twice. I'd rather give a shorter hold, and do 300 buzz in the same message and have our sisters pray than to ban them. And I understand that, you know, some of our brother and when they did this, from their perspective, they're like, this isn't anti women. This is just pandemic common sense. I understand that. I still say, I don't agree with it with my respect of that. In this in this in this era. We need to save our sisters emotions by making them feel a part of our community. And we need to understand that you
know what, in the past, yes, women would rarely come for Juma. It's true. And society was different back then. So this is one of those areas where I would say this is not the Shetty as mandate on us. Rather, this is culturally speaking Something happened and the books are discussed with that paradigm. I don't think it is wise at all to shut off the massage even in the time of the pandemic to our sisters as long as the brothers are also coming yes some massage it cannot do any gender. We understand so they cannot cater to the situation. Any mustard that can cater to 50 people okay 40 of them brothers, at least 35 brothers and 10 sisters, whatever any machine that has some space, you're
able to then cater some to the sisters and alumnos best. Does that come along hand? Yeah, sure. I would have loved to stay another hour. It's our Mahabharata. I'm sure it's smarter for you too. May Allah reward you deserve Hello here. I want you to send my gratitude to your wife. Because there is always always honesty I say this when I when I talk to the sisters when we do our retreats and the sister come and spend two or three days at the end I say please give my regards and design lohit for your husbands who send you because there is always someone has to sacrifice for someone else to serve. So please give her my regard may allottee words May Allah give her more your ob me We would
love to have you again this is very interesting topic from the all the comments we are getting And may Allah subhanaw taala use us all everyone not you and me only but everybody who's listening your llama standing now let us that dinner. Use us for your service. The upcoming contest semi rally to Ballina in October Rahim does not belong to me allottee word you
for having me where you hug me Eliza, would you bless you as well in your office in Charlotte? We can continue this conversation and have other conversations while in Charlotte Zuck mobile,
app and lucky everyone for being with us.