Tom Facchine – How Muslims Can Be Smarter About Politics In Light of Gaza

Tom Facchine
AI: Summary © The speakers discuss the use of brutal language to threaten political momentum and the " abandoned" campaign, as well as Dr. Hassanrd's research on human rights and strategy. They also touch on the history of protecting citizens and the lack of cooperation from politicians. The "weird" image of the President Trump is emphasized, along with the need for policy that prioritizes Muslim American needs and is flexible. The " abandoned Biden" and " abandoned Trump" movements focus on avoiding the idea of a voting period and emphasize the importance of holding political accountable. The "has been" concept is emphasized, along with the need for a precedent for voting and a focus on staying true to the 2016 election. The speakers emphasize the importance of exhausting all means and using the full power of the Prophet Alayshi, as well as the need for political engagement and accountability for one's actions.
AI: Transcript ©
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Back to our Thursday evening live stream coming to you from the US, you can always drop a line in our comment section to interact. Tell us where you're watching from today, tell us what's been on your mind, we're gonna have a very, very interesting guest with us tonight talking about the abandoned Biden campaign, something that's been making the rounds, especially in the US media. But first, I'd like to just discuss some of the things that have been going on recently, in this past week, especially one specific, horrific incident that has recently made the news ascertain Benjamin Reese, in Georgia, the state in the United States of America, who's a teacher, and threatened a 12

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year old girl with basically, I don't want to be graphic and repeat exactly what he said, But threatened her in a very violent way for questioning him on why there was an Israeli flag hanging in his classroom. Now, if you read the full details of the story, again, this person's name is Benjamin Reese. The details are quite scary, that the young girl 12 years old, came to inquire and express, in a moment of trust, asked her teacher why the he was flying this flag, and expressing to him that it was offensive to her since Israel, the government of Israel is engaged in the slaughter of Palestinian people. And the reaction was completely off the wall, a grown man threatening a 12 year

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old girl with death in a very gruesome gruesome way. And there's cat there were cameras on site and several witnesses. Thankfully, there were plenty of people to witness such behavior from the teacher, they were able to report it's in the hands of authorities. And we'll see what happens. And unfortunately, we know especially those of us who have lived in the Western United States, unfortunately, and we know that just as there is a double standard when it comes to the rhetoric that is used,

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such as an example that I'm, I'm thinking of in my head is that when Muslims and people of conscience, say from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. There is a hue and cry and a great commotion about this being a supposedly genocidal chant, which is the most ridiculous thing, anybody with any sort of familiarity with the issues knows is a lie. That is not true that it's talking about the liberation of people in a certain geographically defined area. But yet it is interpreted within the mainstream media and sometimes in the mainstream culture as a genocidal threat, despite no actual genocide, occurring, or even having any proof for any intent to have any

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such genocide. And yet, when there are Israeli officials, the heads of state, the heads of the Army, the heads of the intelligence, the heads of, you know, people who are their official capacities to represent the country and the nation of Israel, that openly declare their genocidal intent in front of cameras for millions of people, then we're told, and we're gaslit. And we're told that this isn't what they really mean, that they're trying to avoid civilian casualties, that they're using precision bombs, and that if only this group, or that group would lay down its arms or stop doing what it was doing or stop resisting, then all of this would stop. So we see one TYPE of double

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standard, and that is the double standard when it comes to the language that we're allowed to use, or the language that we're being told that we can use to describe what's going on. And we also see a tremendous double standard. When it comes to the legal aspect who is treated with suspicion, you have this example of this particular teacher. Again, the name was Benjamin Reese, who used a type of language. And let's just say that if the shoe were on the other foot that if they were a Palestinian teacher, God forbid, and this would be against our religion, that use such brutal and violent language to threaten a student of any faith, let alone the Jewish faith. I would be interested to

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see how the book would be thrown and how every single law possible would be utilized and mobilize in the persecution not going to say prosecution and the persecution of that individual. Whereas it remains to be seen how this person will be called to face justice from the bit that I've read a couple of news articles that I've read that it is extremely light. Sofia asks Where's the guy from the guys from Georgia, the state of Georgia in the United States? I believe the name of the school is it based in Warner Robins Warner Robins school Warner Robins Georgia. That's where it's coming from. Welcome Zamin from Livingston, New Jersey. I'm also in New Jersey native. Welcome, everybody

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to the program, everybody who's watching and tuning in. So there's often a double standard apply when it comes to rhetoric. We've noticed that in the past two months, there's also double standard apply when it comes to the law. We have the Government of Israel with its intelligence agencies and its special interest groups the ADL, AIPAC and affiliates that are able to operate on our politicians in Congress.

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In the staff of the White House, etc,

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as if they weren't a foreign nation, I was meeting with a with an academic teacher, a professor at Columbia University, and he was telling him how widespread this is and how acceptable it is and taken as a given. Whereas if this were done by any other sort of nation, then this would be complete, considered completely inappropriate. But thankfully, some people both from both sides of the political spectrum left and right are starting to wake up and actually see in front of their eyes, how much the United States political class and even the media class is being unfair in this particular instance. So stay tuned. But for Mr. For Mr. Benjamin Reese, unfortunately, the charges

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against him so far seem to be quite light. I know he was put on bail for $5,000, which is not very much at all. But we'll be following the story and I hope that you will to to see if justice will be done. Welcome. boubakeur from Canada, masha Allah, we have Maharaj joining us joining in as an abusive, welcome everybody.

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Sudan where they can find him in a volley from North Carolina welcome. So today, we're going to pivot from that. And that's one of the more ongoing things it's a recent development, but an important development that has come up recently, we've also got another thing that's been catching steam, and that is the abandoned Biden campaign. Now, the case that we just mentioned with this particular teacher threatening a 12 year old girl, why does it matter? It matters because this is the same type of rhetoric that we hear spouted on the news about Palestinians. And it's the same type of rhetoric that we've heard spouted by Israeli officials, and it trickles down. It trickles

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down to the populace and actually creates the capacity for violence. Words do have meaning welcome while they can set up my ship from Somaliland, Masha, Allah, Mohammed from California, Shafi from Florida, mashallah, we always have quite the eclectic audience. Welcome, everybody.

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So we see that words, words have meaning. And it wasn't too long ago that we buried a six year old boy with a BA in Chicago, Illinois, for the incendiary and inflammatory words and rhetoric that was being spewed on the media that motivated a 71 year old man who was his landlord, who was reported to previously have a positive relationship with this young boy would need to previously even play occasionally with him, to incite him to stab young with the more than 25 times, and also his mother while chanting or shouting Islamophobic things. So words matter. And what is said in the media matters. And what government officials say matters, it actually creates the capacity for moral

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action, everything is a green light, or a red light. Sometimes I give the example of a basketball coach, or a soccer coach or any sort of leader that if there is a culture, then the coach is directly responsible for the culture of the team if he allows some of his teammates or some of the teammates from the team to bully other people. Or if he allows the parents to shout or to bully some of the other players, then this is something that the coach is responsible for setting the culture and for setting the tone. And he communicates directly with his players and with the players, parents, what he's willing to tolerate and what he's not. And if he fails to act, and if he fails to

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stop abuse, then people will do whatever they are going to do and get away with. This is the same thing when it comes to the media and the politicians when people use dehumanizing rhetoric on screen and rich reach millions of people that they are giving people a green light to commit atrocities against Palestinians and against Muslims. And Allah subhanaw taala. This aid is so so that being said, we're going to welcome to the program a very special guest, Dr. Hassan Abu Salam. Dr. Hassan Salam is an assistant professor in the Department of Sociology and a faculty member in the Global Studies Institute. Department of Sociology by the University of Minnesota, gophers Go Gophers, been

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to the Twin Cities multiple times. He was a postdoc fellow at Dartmouth College. He's got more degrees than we care to mention here. He's an expert in his field. He teaches classes on human rights and strategy. Welcome to the program. Dr. Hasson does come a low head and the discipline that he missed a lot was salam ala Rasulillah. It's a pleasure to be here with you, brother Tom. And Salam aleikum to all the brothers and sisters all across the planet. And here in the United States. I'm excited to share a message to each and every one of you about the work that we've been doing on abandoned Biden. And just a little bit, just one little point additional to what Tom said something

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that's become a little bit more part of my identity is the way that you know the way that I've been presented as sort of all these degrees but one thing that's

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really special for me is the research that I did in 2022 in Jerusalem, for from February till December, I was doing human rights work on the occupation. And I was embedded with youth activists in Jerusalem. And I traveled a great deal to the West Bank and back lived there till December, when things started to change on December 1, as I was walking towards, of as I was walking towards my primary site of research OXA mesh it, I learned that there was a national alert about me and my research assistant. I was identified, arrested, handcuffed on my hands and legs paraded through the Old City and taken to the infamous Moscow Bay Area prison in the basement for 23 days, tortured

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question interrogated and and then deported back here alongside my research assistant. And so this is a very personal thing to me. And I'm gratified that brother Tom has invited me it's a pleasure to be here with all of you welcomed into that. I appreciate a lot. I'm glad I'm glad that you mentioned that. Because if you didn't hadn't mentioned I was going to ask you about it.

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Give us just a brief reflection on what what changed in you, from before that experience to after that experience. Because obviously, you're a researcher, you're an academic, you knew things from, you know, not just a theoretical perspective, but an academic perspective of what was going on. What changed in you having that actual experience of being tortured by the Zionist state.

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It dramatically changed everything for me, I was there from February, till December, I went through Ramadan, I heard the stories from the youth about prison, I heard the stories of torture. And yet I, you know, having been raised in North America, and you know, having been taught that Israel was a democracy, that it at least to some extent, respected human rights, perhaps at some level, we believe these things, and I managed to enter through the airport without much trouble when I landed on like my research assistant, maybe because I'm older, and they have this sort of white beard. But then after passing, and living for actually a pretty extended period of time, I started seeing more

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and more, the deep oppression that was taking place, I was beaten in a lochsa in May. And then my research assistant in Ramadan was taken to prison for a day. But I never saw and never imagined what I actually injured in December, one day after another sleep deprivation being next to a hole in darkness solitary confinement again and again being interrogated.

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And one of the things that's really quite disorienting is the way in which the authorities sort of play games, my research assistant was taken to a site in Ashkelon, where they basically created a theater, he thought they were Palestinians, in order to extract information, they effectively created scenarios to ask them about me and my work. The extent that they go to destroy your freedom, attack you at a deep psychological level, the games that they play, bringing one interrogator after the other, the beatings of the youth, who also unfortunately were detained alongside me.

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After I was released, it was unquestionable in my mind that this was a dictatorship like any other a lot of times people say in the Arab world, that in the end, in the Middle East, they're dictatorships. But this is one, not unlike all the other ones that are neighboring the State of Israel. No, that's a that's fantastic information. And it's a very, very important experience. We're very grateful that you were able to escape with your life, and tell the world and be motivated for what comes next. Now, you and I hadn't had any sort of contact or relationship until very recently, when you reached out to me to invite me to come to Dearborn, Michigan, and I'm ashamed to say that

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that was my first time in Dearborn. I apologize the next time it will be longer for all the Dearborn folks out there. But we had one goal. And that was, again, something I was not very informed about. It was the abandoned Biden conference. It was something that was gathering let you talk most about it. But it was gathering a lot of Muslim political leaders in one space to just block ourselves in a conference room in a hotel for a weekend and try to strategize politically. We're going to walk through what the abandoned Biden campaign is in a bit, but to set the stage I want you to talk about

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complicity, right and specifically the things that you've gone through and the things that you've seen, and the things that we know happen and the things that we see happening on our phones every day, how much is Biden responsible for what is going on? virtually 100%.

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The United States is, in effect, the reason for the preservation and sustainance of the policies being exercised by Israel, whether it's in the USA, or otherwise, just to come back to my personal story. That was while I was in prison, the United States was aware, because I requested that the US know that I was in prison, and they did nothing. And I now know that they did nothing. When they send those signals, then it creates a permissibility structure to allow the authorities to do whatever they want. And in that very same way, I mean, using myself and an as an analogy, in that very same way, they're doing it in husba. And they've done it again and again, providing a

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protective shield before the international community at the United Nations. And in other international fora, the United States has had a history of protecting Israel from its crimes, and allowing it to pursue its policies of discrimination, and of genocide, of torture and interrogation. And it's for the United States is support, that Israel is actually conducting these type of actions that we see these reckless and gross human rights violations that we see on an ongoing basis. It honestly takes very little for the United States to pull the plug on this. And Joe Biden, who is someone who has held himself to be you know, a self identified Zionist,

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who has his stories, you know, with with gold in my urine, others from a very, you know, from very early on in his political career, supporting the State of Israel has just like many other presidents before, has given a carte blanche to Israel. One of the things that's really interesting is there's been seven Democrats and seven Republicans since the recognition of Israel, all of them have contributed. And that's both parties. And each of these presidents provided Israel with a huge amount of space. Joe Biden has, in many ways been actually more so than other presidents, providing Netanyahu all the space that he needs, in fact, even protecting him. He went, you know, a president

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who goes to another country, hugs the Prime Minister, sort of sending a clear signal to Israelis, and to all the people of the world, that Israel has the permission of the United States to engage in this genocide. And there's extensive scholarship, Noam Chomsky, Finkelstein, Norman Finkelstein, others have shown that it is it's because of US policy, and us permission, that Israel can engage in these types of atrocities, without any problem or any issues. In fact, in the few times where the United States allows a resolution to pass at the United Nations, what we see is the US also behind closed doors, ensuring that Israel wink wink, you could do what we want. And you could go ahead and

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do exactly as as you planned. We're protecting you here, we just have an image issue. So and so the reputational risks are what what they're sometimes referred to as, and they and that's the strategy they work on. But they allow Israel to have a complete permission and space to do the things that we see right now on the screen. And many things, by the way, I mean, it's quite sad for me to say this, but in those basements, there's an occupation in prison. A lot of people don't know in prisons that are unheard of in Ashkelon in Jerusalem across the country, people shouting people trembling, in fear, and no one knows about them. Because they do this in silence. The fact that we're completely

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up ended by this throughout the OMA is because we see on the screen, the visible bombardments, and the open air prison, that is a hazard. But previously, what they would do is that they would create a structures that enable them to do this and, you know, what, you know, it's sort of not as visible to the international community as as it's happening right now. In in the USA.

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Yeah. Subhanallah before so, I there's a couple of things that I noticed that I'll pull out from what you said. But I just want to remind the audience that use your time wisely and send in questions for Dr. Hasson because it's it's always just a golden opportunity to have a guest of his caliber and we've had some high caliber high caliber

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guests handed out on this program. So please take advantage of it.

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One thing that I noticed that I'll pick out from from what you're saying is that

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there's a Well, first of all use the term permissibility structure. And I want people to sort of learn that as a new as a new vocab word, if you haven't heard that before permissibility structure, because I think that a lot of people almost fall into a mistake of assuming that politicians are like, average people in the sense that

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things go on in the international sphere, and either they're insulated from it, and so they don't know what's going on. Or, and then all it has to do then, therefore is just raise awareness and sort of convince and sort of prove and then therefore you can change someone's opinion.

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But what I think that your comments demonstrate is that every silence is intentional. Every hug is intentional, every looking the other way is intentional. It's calculated, you brought up the visit of Biden giving the hook to Netanyahu, we saw how I believe it was the New York Times that ran the article about hospitals, or was it the BBC, I can't remember about hospitals, potentially, you know, being used as command centers the day before the hospital would then be attacked, I believe is the hospital. So these things are very, very much

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signals, right? They're very, they're very calculated, right? How much can we get away with? We have on one hand, that's almost like a situation where Biden, his rhetoric has started to shift a little bit, we've started to notice some maybe some cracks in between him and yet in Yahoo, publicly, but privately and behind closed doors, Biden is attempting to accelerate the speed with which Israel can reload the military machine. So that demonstrates how

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cold and calculating everything is. So when people ask, well, how responsible is Biden really? Is it really the deep state? Is it really it's been every president, etc. You know, there's okay, just like you said, there's been seven and seven Presidents. And so there's a structure here, and no one's saying that the structure isn't responsible. But there is one particular individual who's orchestrating this. And it's very calculated, and it's very intentional.

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Do you think that that's a fair sort of assessment and extrapolation of sort of what you've given us here? Absolutely, beautifully said brother. And I would also add that for folks outside of the United States, the President of the United States has significant legal space and power to exercise foreign policy decisions. And so even without congressional support, he can take policy decisions in a way unlike any other category of policy. And so what you're seeing here is undoubtedly make no mistake, the view of Mr. Biden is to engage in these actions that we see these image and atrocities that we are being inflicted with on an ongoing basis. Steph, Rola.

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Excellent, yeah. So some of the comments that I'm seeing Yeah, we've so sister Fatima Hafiz asked a similar question. So there's been a sudden shift Biden, the corporate media are increasingly critical of Israel. Why do you think that is, I doubt this newfound humanity? What has changed and what I think you're saying? Dr. Hasson is that these are all it's basically PR management, right? Because they're on in the backroom. They're accelerating arm shipments, and they're concerned about not getting reelected come November, which we'll talk about. But in public, they realize that they're going to look a certain way. And they're trying to establish a certain sort of optic,

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they're going for a certain look like the humanitarian pause was a failed, I think example of attempting. And we saw this in the in the very beginning with the aid that was being delivered across the OFAC crossing, where there was an attempt to look like, well, Biden is the reason that the humanitarian aid could be delivered. There was an attempt to try to claim that narrative. People didn't fall for it. They said, how are you going to feed him with one hand and stab him in the back with the other and then he had to kind of pedal towards another narrative. Do you think that's a fair response to Sr? If it was question about this is all just PR management? Absolutely. It is.

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There are two dimensions to this. It is PR management. And it's demonstrating that the United States has a humanitarian face in response to the protests and and the these threats being posed against the White House. I would like to also add another thing, considering abandon Biden and some information that I have After embarking on the abandoned Biden campaign is that the President is currently experiencing a bit of a conundrum.

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The world is has changed the United States in 1948 is not like the United States in 2023. There are Muslim Americans who happen to be perhaps the most powerful Muslims on the planet. And they are exercising their voice and their power in ways unlike any other point in American history prior to this period. And what we're seeing is a White House that's struggling with the election reality the electoral consequences of the decisions they've taken in Azusa. And so it is PR in the sense that there's an image to keep up around the world. But it's also real consequences that the United States now currently fears the US government, the White House, Mr. Biden and the strategists, strategists

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are pulling their hair trying to figure out a way to to actually tie this thing, which is to actually allow Israel to pursue its attacks and bombardments as well as its policies against Palestinians. Its human rights violations. But simultaneously, Mr. Biden doesn't appear to be a someone who looks like he's about to win an election a year out. And so one major problem is that there are seven states where Muslim Americans can make the difference, the decisive tipping point in those states could be in the hands of Muslim Americans. And so he has to somehow cater. And so what what might he be thinking? Let's try to think like him, folks. So if you're the president, and

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you're wondering, what can we do, and you have these strategists pulling their hair sort of having a meltdown in the White House? What we do what we what do we deal with these Muslim American voters who are really angry, and were persuaded now that they're angry,

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is that they, you know, the first thing they probably have to do is to ask, try to push Israel to pursue its policies as fast as possible. So increase, accelerate the bombardment do the further further attacks, bring in the Israeli incursions, and do as much as you can to overwhelm the tunnels, right? And, but also, simultaneously, you want to send beautiful words and appease the Muslim American population, and come up with a plan to provide concessions to them in the hopes that they fear Trump, bad enough, alongside a package of new policies that didn't allow Muslim Americans to vote for Biden, at least like let's say 50%. And so that's where, you know, this administration

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is really struggling right now with what the reaction that they're getting from Muslim Americans. Excellent. And that's a perfect segue to get into the meat of the issue, what the abandon Biden campaign, the strategy, how it works. I think that from everything we've talked about, up until now, it's based off of one sort of Axiom, which is that Biden must be punished politically, for his green lighting and his active not passive has not indirect his active direct role in the genocide of people in Gaza, and then Palestine. So give us a quick summary. And then we'll get into I have some, you know, particular, I've been collecting sort of doubts about the abandoned Biden campaign that

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we'll go through one at a time. But give us in summary, the bird's eye view, what is the thought and the strategy behind the abandoned Biden campaign? So underlying the strategy of the abandoned Biden campaign is that Muslim Americans ought to launch a credible threat against the White House. What does that mean? It means having a threat that actually the White House will take seriously and not just flicker away, as they might have been doing with the protests. After the protests were taking place, I realized that we needed a strategy reached out to folks and primarily brother Julian yet care Minnesota, I informed them that it seems like the most likely situation and this was in

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October, that the White House will not respond to the protests. But they will respond if we pledge not to vote for him not to donate to him. And the idea here is that obviously, we can't say that we have a credible threat in California, or in the states like Nebraska, where voters were Muslim Americans don't make up a population that can have a decisive influence on the electoral outcome of those states. But remember, again, in the United States, votes happen based not on the popular vote or the overall population are based on certain electoral vote counts provided to each state. Now there are seven states in the United States from the 50 states in this country where most

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Some Americans have a population of voting population that can make a difference in those states. And so those states are Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, and Florida, they add up to 111 electoral votes, or electoral vote count. And previously, presidents have won the election in the United States with far fewer the last one in 2020, with by 74, Biden V. Trump. And one of the things that's really critical here is that the idea is to launch a campaign to pledge that we won't vote that we will organize and guarantee that Mr. Biden will lose those states and therefore lose the presidency. This the strategy is not purely this notion of let's hold this

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administration to account like what Brother Tom, this is, that's a critical part that brother Tom was highlighting the strategy is to let the White House know today that the threat is so credible, that they have to act today in anticipation of a likely defeat next year.

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Excellent. Okay. So that's really significant. And I see it see a lot of people who have sort of maybe had doubts or criticized, the the thing with a campaign is sort of confusing those two things, right, is that this might actually be our best chance to get action. Now, compared to protests, like you've said, the attitude in the White House or in Washington DC is like, Okay, well, you know, it makes us look bad, but will weather the storm, we kind of just let people blow off some steam, and then eventually, they'll have to go back to the job. So you know, have to go back to their their families, et cetera, et cetera. But posing a more credible threat, a more strategic threat,

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basically promising to end somebody's term in office is something that's a little bit more targeted, it's a little bit more specific. It's a little bit more challenging, but it's also I think, the upside is that the reward is a little bit greater, that we're trying to say, if you want to save yourself that you're going to have to change yesterday, essentially. Now. There's so there's a couple we have a couple of questions in the chat, but we'll go through some of the doubts. The first is that you mentioned that I've been challenged on the numbers. I've had people that are they tell me that they're PhDs in electoral polling or something like this and say, You guys are wrong, you

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don't have the numbers? Can it work crunch some numbers for us? Do we do Muslims actually have the ability in the swing states to decide this election? Absolutely. And by the way that we're looking here at the 2020 elections and the recent polling, we're talking about razor thin margins in recent polling, for example, in Wisconsin and Minnesota, where it's clearly evident that the voting population is far greater than those thin margins that separate Mr. Biden from Mr. Trump, at least in recent polling, where almost 50,000 vote, voters come out in Minnesota. And that's a very conservative estimate. We have in Minnesota, the numbers are so narrow in the polling, that there's

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no question and Minnesota appears to be a critical swing state, it could even be potentially a tipping tipping point state, which means that it's the state that decisively determines the outcome of the overall election. We have a state like Arizona, where there was approximately a 10,000 vote difference between the Republican and the Democrat Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump. And reliable studies have shown anywhere an estimate of 25,000 to 50,000, Muslim vote, registered voters voters that will come out, and that's five times the number of the margin. And, and Georgia also had a 10,000.

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You know, approximately 11,000 Vote voter difference. I mean, voter numbers and Muslim populations in Georgia, in Pennsylvania, we're talking far beyond 200,000. Similarly, in a state like Michigan, where the vote vote, difference was razor thin. We have a voting population of approximately 200,000. They include Muslim Americans as well as Arab Americans, both Muslim and Christian. And we see trends across the country in recent polling that suggests that Muslims are united. And so if they're speaking in one voice, and they're aware, it's a matter of coordination, and it's not really a question about whether we can do this. I've actually been quite conservative by focusing on those

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seven states. And actually, you can potentially even add North Carolina and Nevada as well. Muslim America

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This is an additional thing that I also want to point out. The reason why it's a conservative estimate, and obviously, by the way, I welcome others for a more extensive presentation on the numbers, because obviously, this is meant to be, you know, a more general broad overview here with brother Tom. And the the reality is, if we organize in a population that doesn't actually have a tradition of voting as much as potentially other groups, so these are estimates with of actual voters. But if we organize Muslims to come out to vote in sha Allah, we're talking about virtual guarantees to surpass these percentages that existed in in, in 2020, these razor margin differences

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that that decide the election of those states. Excellent. So that's really, really important. So we're not just going on Wikipedia and looking up, what's the population, that's the most the most Muslim population in Pennsylvania, and this might be big, like we're talking about voting populations, people who are proven to actually have already, you know, get out there and get the vote. And we're triangulating from both polling data now and election data from the previous election. So we're, this is the in the hands of experts. Samia Siddiqui has an interesting question I want to throw him before we move on to the orange gorilla in the room, which is how can the latest

00:36:33 --> 00:36:33


00:36:35 --> 00:36:50

Inquiry play a role or play into the abandoned Biden campaign? Have you you have anything to say your comment about this? It doesn't have a direct relationship with the abandoned Biden objectives, which is basically criticizing the foreign policy decisions of Mr. Biden.

00:36:51 --> 00:37:22

In relation, in particular with Palestine, obviously, the Republicans who have launched this impeachment have, you know, align entirely with Mr. Biden on his policy regarding the US? So there's no question about that. Of course, the impeachment is part of an overall narrative in politics. And narrative is really important. And right now, what we're seeing is a lot like a pylon of a lot of negative information. That's depressing the polling. And you can see that in recent polling that's been

00:37:23 --> 00:38:07

released, is that we see Mr. Biden is really suffering that Republicans are, are sort of uniting around their candidate. And Mr. Biden is suffering drastically among various groups, and particularly minorities and the youth to you know, those groups are also groups that are highly influenced by our positions and the positions that we've been taking in protests as well as the broader abandoned Biden campaign. But by the way, one thing that I should say is, Mr. Biden, I mean, if you're listening, obviously, you need some help from us. So the impeachment, the impeachment, just that says, I mean, obviously, you need every ally that you can possibly get.

00:38:08 --> 00:38:50

Excellent. Very good. Thank you. So Fatima Hafeez brings up a point which gets to another point. So we proved or I think you've proved very convincingly that it can work. We have the numbers, we have the votes. It's just about coordination and organization. The biggest doubt, I think, in other people's mind is, is it smart? Is it smart, because the threat is another four years of Trump. So Father Murphy says, Here's a major doubt we have been invited Inshallah, and I like what you did there. I see what you did there Fatuma vote, maybe a third party at Trump was elected. The argument is that Trump would have done much worse and will do much worse. How do we sewage these fears? Is it

00:38:50 --> 00:39:29

smart? Are we jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire here? Absolutely. Absolutely. And by the way, I'm not sure you know, in the case of Muslim Americans in the way of our Ummah, it might be the case that that's the sort of like the question of the day for the Ummah we seem to be either in a frying pan or out in the fire. May Allah subhanaw taala protect us in greatest victory does that Kamala Harris, Sister Fatima for the great question. Absolutely. There are major doubts all around, in fact, because the abandoned Biden campaign has taken the position not to vote for Biden, then the question becomes, should you know, what's the consequence to Trump? But equally, if someone were to

00:39:29 --> 00:40:00

come here and to say, let's vote for Trump, your question might be, but then we would vote and Biden would win, and we would end up rewarding someone who committed a genocide. The reality is were struck. We're struggling with a major political, you know, conundrum and here's, here's my suggestion, and may Allah subhanaw taala grant us knowledge. This is called the triangulation strategy. It involves us not thinking in the same way that the media often frames Polit

00:40:00 --> 00:40:41

It's not D Democrat versus our Republican. It's actually not a binary, but rather trying to position Muslim Americans in a way that they can increase their power base, not only now, but on the long term because this is we got into this problem, because we didn't really figure out our institutions, and position ourselves in a way that can cause high levels of pressure for Mr. Biden, in fact, what we see recently from Mr. Biden, and you softening position, if you can call it that is likely because of pressure from us. But we want that pressure to happen immediately, such that on any of the issues, remember that Obama is struggling the weekers, the Rohingya issues of autocracy across

00:40:41 --> 00:41:23

the planet. And so we have to think now long term as well as short term. And the way to do this is to send a signal to the entire political system. It's not just to Mr. Biden, even though we have the moniker abandoned Biden represents a broad strategy, such that if Mr. Trump wins, and by the way, that might not happen, because of all the indictments that he has to potentially go through. But if the Republican wins, that means that a strategist will come before the Republican president and say, you know why you just won, because most of them Americans abandoned Biden. So don't do those negative antagonizing things you did between 2016 and 2020. What we what you, you know, I totally

00:41:23 --> 00:42:02

understand you won't do any anti Islamophobia, policies and whatever, you'll continue with the policies that the Democrat had in place previously. But don't antagonize them. And so what we ended up getting entering is into a political auction in which both parties start to bid for our approval. You know, both Republicans and Democrats have whether they're in the White House, you know, whether the shifting rotation between those two parties in the White House, as I mentioned, seven, seven, it has no effect on the Israel policy, we want to reach that on many of our issues, in particular Palestine. And so we need to now effect the type of change where both parties realize, oh, wow,

00:42:03 --> 00:42:46

Muslims are a party that Swink. And if they're a party that swing, people want votes, and they'll begin to reach out, and then gradually, their positions will start to come closer and closer to us. And that, in effect, is the overall strategy requires guidance. It requires institutionalization, it requires grassroots movement making, and it requires credible threats to different politicians in the system. But it is possible. And it doesn't necessarily imply that we will suffer the same way we may have suffered under Trump in the four years between 2016 and 2020. Excellent. That's a good that's a great response. I think that the the note that I tried to strike when explained to people,

00:42:46 --> 00:43:29

the idea behind the strategy is that if you're thinking that things are going to be the same, from 2016, to 2020, to 2024, to 2028, then it all looks the same. But what we're trying to do is not just swapped someone out for somebody else, we're trying to actually affect the choices that are being presented to us, either. And this was brought up in one of the comments, either by building the leverage in the power to get the parties to change their candidates, like so someone brought the possibility. What if the DNC pivots away from Biden, because of all the noise we're making? That would be welcomed? I think, right? That would be a demonstration of Muslim political power. Or we

00:43:29 --> 00:44:08

get to the point where we actually do have to, you know, we do remove somebody from office at the ballot box. And that actually changes as you're saying that changes the calculus that every future president will have to make. And every party, right, both parties are going to have to change their calculus right now. The Muslims are a nonfactor. And people close to Biden, they have said that they were banking on Muslims forgetting about all of this in a year, in 2024, they assumed that we were going to get over it, we're putting our foot down and saying no, we're not going to get over it, we're going to organize. And we're actually going to leverage that organization and coordination, so

00:44:08 --> 00:44:48

that you're going to have to change the people that you offer to us, right, pick this or pick this, you're gonna have to change those very options for us to get behind anybody. I think that's the that's the idea. And we're we don't have that capacity yet. And so we need to build that capacity. And how you're going to build that capacity is through an anti campaign such as this trying to remove Biden specifically. Is that fair? Did I miss anything? Absolutely. And imagine the situation where even one state is determined after the fact that study is done. That shows that Muslim Americans basically took away the possibility of Biden winning Michigan, or Minnesota or Wisconsin,

00:44:48 --> 00:44:59

just one state. That will be the first time in American history where Muslim Americans have had that type of power, and forever in sha Allah, or further law.

00:45:00 --> 00:45:08

Long term, it would mean that politicians just as brother Thomas said, will have to think twice before they betray their Muslim American electorate.

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So there's another question here another common sort of retort or question that I get. Again, I think that it's sort of inspired more by the way that these sorts of decisions are framed, and decontextualized or de sequentialized. In the media, that well, then who should we vote for? Some people are of the opinion that we should vote for. For Trump, they say that Trump wasn't as bad as people make them out to be, or he'll be different next time around. Some people say, third party. Some people say, Jill Stein, some people say, Cornel West, some people say write in for the right, there's a lot of different options.

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Are we at the stage right now? Is that the question that we should be asking? If so, or if not, why not?

00:45:53 --> 00:46:34

Yeah, I think the my first answer, since you put it that way, is that it's actually this thing that we have a puzzle on our hands to figure out who we're going to vote for is actually a bit of a distraction. Folks, don't fall for it, don't fall for it, the idea that you have to go and do all these calculations, you know, bring in some calculus, and actually do all these algorithms on your AI system. To figure out this problem, you won't ever find that candidate that's golden to you, and all Muslim American priorities, that then that person will get elected into the White House, because if that happens, it will be the first time in American history. So I think that the problem is so

00:46:34 --> 00:47:26

challenging that it's meant to stump us. And the idea of launching a credible threat is for us to have and demonstrate that we have a believable, realistic plan, organizational structures put in place, get out the vote, in order to read Mr. Biden, from the presidency. And so that Sif will be sufficient to demonstrate Muslim American power to then create a pathway on the long term, on the long term, remember, like history, 10 years, 20 years is really short in the span of history, we can affect change right now on the short term by actually preventing the White House to allow an elongated war in Gaza, or these bombardments and attacks and muzza, and also simultaneously in sha

00:47:26 --> 00:47:31

Allah to, to allow us to create the conditions on the long term

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to enhance Muslim American power. And so the idea here is who it doesn't really matter who and we appropriate, like a sort of agnostic approach to this, we probably we should have an eye, this is what I hear for most people, we should have a candidate, we don't have to decide on that person. Now, we need to actually just have them bid for our approval, and try to get as many parties to come in our direction, and then make a decision together after reaching out and consulting through shora throughout the country, which is part of our intent in abandon Biden, and then select a candidate that we capture that constantly repeats our policies and our views. And then simultaneously that

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allows pollsters and others academics to be able to study the numbers after the election if we vote all together in unison for a single candidate. And I do I do want to say that I slip of the tongue being the being subjected and socialized like the rest of us by the media, there is no war, as I put it in the has it's that the when you have such a one one sided, lopsided, that that just came out that way. And I should point out that that it's just basically an attack on bombardments unilateral attacks on Palestinians by the Israeli state. Yes. Excellent. So one thing I think that also comes to mind when you talk about how that's not the question, and this is sort of a distraction to get

00:49:02 --> 00:49:40

caught in the who, and I think that part of that, you know, in America, and as Americans, we're bombarded with celebrity culture, we think that, you know, this is like the one person that's going to save us. And I think that that's, that's problematic. I also think that as you, as you said, or alluded to, that, the longer we conceal who we're going to support the actual better it is for us, because if somebody comes out and if we say, Hey, we're going to put our support behind Cornel West, or hey, we're gonna put our support behind this person or that person, then what do they have to fight for? They don't have any incentive and you've just taken your leverage and you've poured it

00:49:40 --> 00:50:00

down the drain. Right the whole leverage is that we're withholding we might you don't know what we're gonna do. We might completely boycott the election. We might not vote at all. We might put our vote over here. We might put over there you come fight for our vote. You start changing yourself so that you convince us that you should deserve to have my vote because up

00:50:00 --> 00:50:40

Up until now, they've been taking it for granted using the fear tactic. So Trump's going to come and deport you. And he's going to, you know, all these sorts of things, not to not to downplay the people who have been affected by some of his policies, of course, like, that's definitely factual. But it's also a fact that they've used an overblown, the fear of some of those some of that rhetoric and some of those policies in order to not have to do anything for us or actually deliver any wins for us as a Muslim community, just assuming that they've got our vote. So that is a really, really important point, I think, you know, and correct me again, if I'm wrong, but I think concealing and

00:50:40 --> 00:50:55

holding back and letting all the suitors kind of bid, let them bid. And then we'll see what what it's like the housing market right now, you let let let everybody put in their offers, and we'll see what the best offer is. And we'll go with the best offer when the time is right.

00:50:57 --> 00:51:39

Absolutely, I agree entirely. That was beautifully said. And there's no reason for us to share or declare a candidate, especially that not a single vote has been cast in the primary, we don't know what's going to happen, also to Mr. Biden, and whether or not he's actually going to be the presidential candidate for the Democratic Party. And so by actually stating in clear terms, where we're going with this person, first of all, that person then can rest. And then second, all the others will begin to actually strategize around figuring out how they can go around Muslim Americans, and win this thing. Without them. Since they've now decided on a candidate, they don't

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have to fight for our vote. And that's really quite problematic. And so as you say, we have to wait till the end. I also want to point out something that is actually a little bit disturbing from a game theoretic standpoint, which is, which is just a fancy fancy theory to think about different possibilities, and what would be the outcome. Imagine, folks, if we, after all this, we voted for Mr. Biden, just imagine, because everyone asks a question in the reverse. Let me ask everyone else this question. This is what it will say about Muslim Americans, they this whole approach is that Muslim Americans put all their eggs in the Democratic basket. And that whatever you do, even if you

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kill their own people, and their families and their friends, they will vote for you. And so you have absolutely no reason to worry. And so that they can do whatever they want, so long as they're not as threatening as the other party or allegedly as threatening, right. And so that is very disturbing, because what it would mean is that we're rewarding them for their policy of death. And we really can't afford that, because that would just mean, we're worsening the condition of the Ummah, and we're worsening the condition of Muslim Americans. And so I think everyone would agree, we have to figure out an alternative policy, an alternative approach and vision or strategy, then the approach

00:53:07 --> 00:53:42

that we've been taking previously, particularly after these events. Excellent. We've got several comments here that have that are that are thinking big picture and are thinking long term and thinking beyond the two parties and the two candidates that are put before us. They're asking about putting our money where our mouth is now there it says other groups donate and support their candidates, while we're busy with other frivolous things. Other people had said about making our own party or about fielding our own candidates. Is that where we're headed? Are we headed to a to a place where we start to feel our own candidates that are or make our own party or things like this

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in the in the future?

00:53:44 --> 00:54:28

Absolutely. There's no reason why we shouldn't and in fact, in these type of situations, particularly because of the fact that we don't have a home right now, neither the Republican nor the Democratic Parties really are a place for us, at least we'll launch them in the upcoming election. Having an Islamic party, or a party that appeals directly to Muslim Americans can be really helpful. And the idea would be though, to have a party that can reach out to different groups throughout the country, with our vision of justice, protection of life, and dignity, as well as a foreign policy that respects the autonomy and life and of peoples all around the world in Latin America and the

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Middle East, in the Far East. And so I think that that is a critical for us to really put our imprint on on America. Also, a lot of people think that parties and political parties and elections are all about winning. While that is really critical in order to exercise your power, but power can actually happen by being part of the system. And so just being able to have candidates talk about Muslim American priorities, starts to transform

00:55:00 --> 00:55:17

These elections, independents and Muslim Americans who come into the Democratic and Republican Party, if they start focusing on Muslim American issues, it will seep in throughout the culture and affect the parties as well as the political landscape in an indelible way.

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That's an excellent comment. I'm glad you said that. Because I think that, and I want everybody to make sure that they understand what you mean by that. Because I think for some time, we've given lip service to participation in the political process. But in fact, our participation has been very, very surface level, that our conception of what it means to participate in the political system was limited to voting even, or to being a candidate that then gets voted for when what I think we need an abandoned Biden campaign is part of this, is we need to put out on a table, every single political activity, what does it look like? How does this whole system work? You have, you have the

00:55:59 --> 00:56:43

application of money, you have voter education, you have advocate advocacy, on policies, you have education, on certain issues, there's dozens of things that need to be done, that come under the title of shifting the system or participating in the system. Right? And that, if you only focus on, again, the celebrity element, which is the candidates, or the votes, right, we can't just one thing I hope that we've learned from this whole mess, is that you can't simply cast your vote once every four years and walk away and think that you've done something politically, that's not anything that you even if you and I've, I've had this conversation with other people that talk about the lesser of

00:56:43 --> 00:57:27

the two evils or the lesser of two evils argument. One of the problems that people have committed when deploying the lesser of two evils argument is that they will say, Okay, I've choice A and B, I'm choosing the lesser of two evils, and then they'll forget about everything until four years later. And then they'll have to evil options again and say, Well, I have to choose the lesser of two evils. The day after you chose that lesser evil the first time, you should have been working hard for four straight years, to make the two choices that you have next time, both of them demoed demonstrably less evil. If you haven't done anything in those in that interim, and those four years

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to change those choices to lessen that evil, then I don't call that choosing the lesser of two evils. I call that being very stupid to be frank. And we have to be, we have to wake up. And we have to start to realize that politics and political engagement is a 24/7 365 activity, that it takes a long, sustained effort, we're looking to shift what they call the Overton window, the the, the, the the, the, the boundaries of the discussion that can take place. Look at how far the boundaries have been shifted. In the past few months, we've seen a lot of success. We need to keep this up and continue to push these boundaries to the point where people are questioning the existence of the the

00:58:10 --> 00:58:53

Zionist state have in and of itself, the legitimacy, whether it's sustainable, whether it's viable. You have Norman Finkelstein, for those who've been watching Piers Morgan, the other night, able to flip it in a way I don't think any other guests was able to do it said, How can Israel as a government justify its continuity as as a nation that sits on the United Nations and supposedly, you know, sends a soccer team to two competitions, and it's behaving this way? Right. So I think that political engagement is far broader and deeper and more varied than we've given them credit for. And we have to start paying particular attention to it. I'd like your comments if you have any comments

00:58:53 --> 00:59:39

on that. I mean, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, that the whole idea that politics is one day, where you go out to vote, it's actually reactionary, and it's passive, it means that they present to you platforms, and you have to basically make a choice. But folks, do you know that these parties are deeply embedded in American culture, they've evolved over long periods of time. And they're attempting to be responsive to their constituencies that provide the money and votes in critical states that were part of this country, where are Muslim Americans from all these different states. And what we have to do is hold these parties to account become part of them affect their policies.

00:59:40 --> 00:59:59

And so these parties will begin to shift in ways that are even taken for granted. They will begin to talk like us and not even realize it because they have to respond to us. They'd have to engage to us under the scenario that brother Tom mentioned. But once you eliminate yourself from those interactions from those engagements

01:00:00 --> 01:00:39

As on an ongoing basis with these political parties, then suddenly they realize, well, they're not there for us, they, you know, they will vote between the lesser of two evils. So we could just give them whatever platform we want. And that's it. What happens under those situations, just like the way in which we're talking about different scenarios previously, is that these parties will not reflect the spirit and priorities of Muslim Americans. And if we could get 50%, of what we want 25% of what we want 10% of what we want, it will be more than what we've had in the past, which is this really strange way of approaching politics, which basically, they'll do whatever they have to do

01:00:39 --> 01:01:01

their distant, we're not really from here. And basically, we'll just pick whoever's the lesser of two evils, but a stuff for Allah folks, there's something really critical, you have to know there could be a day, that day may have come when there is no lesser of two evils, because we're completely eliminated from the system. And they're just both evil.

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So let's not wait till that day. And if that day has come, which I argue it has, because both parties are pursuing this genocide and are absolutely behind it, is that we have to take now positions that embrace what Brother Tom has challenged us to do, which is to actually become part of this country of this culture, and affect this culture. We have every right constitutional and on based on our tradition and principles, from the prophets on allowing us to do good wherever we are in every state of this country, such that it changes towards the better for Muslims and non Muslims here and all around the world. Believe me, this is the message that's even bigger than any type of

01:01:49 --> 01:02:33

algorithm and the states in the swing states. Muslim Americans are powerful. And yet we act like we're powerless. So let's not have something like this in sha Allah will low on them happen again. Let's set the stage together to transform this country for the better mashallah, excellent words. Dr. Hasson? Do you have any final comments? Or would you suffice that as your final comments, I'll leave the floor to you. When I say Yo, does that go? Okay. And by the time I among my my in terms of final comments, I do have something I want to share to Muslim Americans is that this has been a challenging and difficult time of great distress. And each of us may have not known this in our time

01:02:33 --> 01:03:13

of despair in our sleepless nights, as we were shocked by the bombardment over a people. Imagine your mother or father having to endure those attacks. I've been doing and guiding by the power and permission of Allah subhanaw taala. These press conferences that launch event and Biden campaigns across the country. And one man who was selected as a speaker has family in the USA. And he he was just calling about the press conference. And he wanted to talk to me before the date took place. And he said he spoke to me and we talked about the price of Yeah, Alhamdulillah. Great you're joining and as a speaker. And then he said brother Hassan, do you know what I just learned in the past hour?

01:03:15 --> 01:03:20

I said what he said, I just learned that I lost 24 members of my family

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24 members of my family, there is no way psychologically we could write in the name of the person who did that our family and friends in the mosques and cultural centers have had these experiences that we've heard, we will never do something like that. But what's even more fundamental is how did we get into this situation in the first place? We have to ask this critically, even if it means to sacrifice for four years. Put aside the triangulation theory that I mentioned that the Republicans will soften their positions towards us. But living under a Republican for four years is incomparable to living one day in the USA Today.

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And like the Prophet said, Salado sudden, the OMA is like a body when one part of it is in pain. It says though the whole part is in pain.

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And so we're a critical part of this ummah. The part of the OMA that's Pennsylvania, the part of the OMA that's Wisconsin, the part of the OMA that's Minnesota, the part of the OMA that's Arizona. And each of these states with its Muslim population, as well as all Muslim Americans across this country, have to take the responsibility for this OMA to make the right decision and to vote, not for what benefits them alone, before it benefits them, their family, their communities and this entire ummah. And so that's the challenge that's ahead for us. And I can tell you as I was going back and forth to the courts,

01:04:52 --> 01:05:00

when I was imprisoned in Jerusalem, that the youth even when they were being beaten and tortured, and

01:05:00 --> 01:05:10

When I had few moments to talk to them before, I would appear in a short period before the judge, they would tell me things they would show such bright faces. When I said that I would speak out in America,

01:05:11 --> 01:05:56

we have to do more than just speak out. We need to send a clear signal, a credible threat to this White House, historically unprecedented moment where Muslim Americans come home to this country, and transform this planet. Because of the power of America on this planet. We actually have it within us, the abandoned Biden campaign has begun. And each of you can be a part of it. Please join, and do press conferences, and join in the institutionalization and get the vote out as we work towards achieving our goals, abandoned Biden 2020 [email protected]. I'm looking forward to seeing all of you dear brothers and sisters, we're just supposed to do it, which is akmola who hate and dear brothers

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and sisters was salam ala eco Morocco.

01:05:59 --> 01:06:01

Tiger has an epsilon, thank you so much. So

01:06:05 --> 01:06:58

there you have it, folks. That's the abandoned Biden campaign. I think it's a very strong and bold idea. And as Dr. Hassan, Saddam was indicating, we have a special, a special responsibility we might have. And it's scary, the highest level of responsibility and duty, then compared to any of the Muslims in the world. Because we live in one particular nation that is allowing this to happen, the one particular nation in the world, that if it stopped, what's going on in Eliza, then it would stop, if it pulled its support, then it would stop probably immediately, if not extremely, extremely soon. So we have a higher degree of responsibility. And we hope that Allah subhanaw taala will not

01:06:58 --> 01:07:36

hold us accountable and punish us for what's, of course, we know he won't punish us for what's beyond our ability, but we hope that we can meet him Subhana wa Tada. Confident that we tried everything that we could all the legitimate means at our disposal, in order to help our brothers and sisters in the Aza and Palestine. Now, you know, I scan the comments, and I try to gather the best ones. And I apologize if I've missed any of them. There's a couple that I want to that I want to get back to. Before we close out tonight's program, one of them is wondering, and there are people who hold the opinion that it's not permissible to vote final than this is the easiest election for you

01:07:36 --> 01:08:14

to to be because the strategy is not to vote for somebody in particular. But it is to not vote for somebody. This is a campaign that is dedicated to trying to ensure the loss of President Biden hoping hoping that this will provide some leverage and some political power, in addition to establishing the networks and the capacity, and the unity for other political action down the line, some of which will be electoral, and some of which some of which will not be electoral. So many of you bring up the idea of lobbies. This is something that's already in the work and abandoned, the abandoned Biden campaign has already been in the mix with creating political lobbies. Now, some

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people seem to be confused about democracy and wonder if for example, that voting this way, is it voting period? Is it Whadjuk? Or if you go out and vote as something that is haram? Or does it indicate that you believe in democracy, which is a fairly vague way to word things, in such a way that it's impermissible, impermissible or leaves you into hot water. And I will say this, though, when it comes to voting, voting is a political technology, okay, and any sort of political technology is based off of muscle hammer facet, and it is not an act of worship, okay, if you do not intend it as an act of worship, just as you utilize a particular means to achieve an end in this

01:08:57 --> 01:09:05

dunya, such as you use a car, or use a horse, or you use a train or use a plane to get somewhere, that if you're intent to use

01:09:06 --> 01:09:43

the political technology of voting, to simply achieve some sort of end, that in and of itself is not something that you require a precedent for. It's not something that indicates that you have you have given away sovereignty to something else. These things are not accurate. There's a conversation to be had a filthy conversation to be had when it comes to the complicity of appointing a representative or helping to elect a representative and that Representative goes on to do some bad things or some things that contradict Islam, that is a conversation to be had. But when it comes to the idea, for example, some people will say that, you know, the rule is only for a last moment to

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audit and so if you're voting it indicates that you believe or value a law that's greater than a loss law, this is not accurate and this is not correct. Because first of all, if that is not your intention in doing this thing, then you can use something you can eat a

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type of food and not like that food, right? If somebody comes and gives you something and serves it to you, you might have lots of reasons to eat it. Maybe it's awkward, you're somebody's guest. And it would be awkward if you turned it down. Maybe that's the only thing you have to eat that day, and you don't want to go to bed hungry, right? That it does not indicate whatsoever voting in an election that you believe that the system of democracy is better than the laws laws, or that you believe that sovereignty belongs to anyone other than a loss of pounds audit, this is not a sound argument. The other arguments, then that's something that people will have to make up the they will

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have to make up their minds themselves, if they're comfortable with the argument of trying to minimize harm, which is a well known, well known principle and fifth, or whether they're going to take the position of they don't want to be held accountable or mixed up with any of what the elected representatives do. That also has some legitimacy. And people can stand on that in front of Allah subhanaw taala. Nobody is telling you here that to do one thing, or an X or another is particularly Whadjuk. But when it comes to these sorts of arguments, we should be clear that this is something that is based off a muscle Aha. And it's not something that is called then as and to try to make it

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into an ad to call the issue to try to make it into an update the issue is something that is far fetched.

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I'm gonna come through the comments very quickly right here. Besam says we have large communities and most swing states we have to make them Fear and Desire our votes. Yes, that's exactly the idea of the abandoned Biden campaign.

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Let's see we'll run through here.

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Erica says not voting in the West leaves a vacuum to monsters to rule in the West. Yes, well, that's the point of Dr. Hasson have to sit down and what he's talking about when he's talking about culturally he didn't use the word integration assimilation. That's not we're talking about. We're talking about taking ownership over the place that we live, okay. If I lost funds, all of a sudden the Koran when he first described human beings, he said any j i don't feel LD Khalifa. He said that we will put a Khalifa on Earth, we will put a representative that's going to run things the way that I want them to be run. That is what a hadith is, that's what a Khalifa does, then we have a

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responsibility to the societies that we live in, to improve them and to make them as best as possible and bring them as close as possible in line with the principles of our deen that Allah subhanaw taala wants and the means to pursuing that end are not specifically limited. They're limited by what's explicitly haram in the deen. But it's not something that there's only one way to do it. There's only two ways to do it. There's only three ways to do it, that we need a special precedent from a certain time period are things like that, right we are called to establish justice and be witnesses to justice, wherever we live, where we are where we go. And so we have to take the

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means to pursue and to stand up for that Justice Whatever it looks like in that particular time and place.

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Combing real quick through the comments gems we I encourage gems you to go back through the rest of the we did deal with the question of are we comfortable with Trump being elected we have dealt with that

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okay, and says

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very good.

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It's good to see a healthy discussion here.

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Dawood Mujeeb says how can we say we are against liberalism and democracy and tried to bring change around a system that we reject? I think that's obvious, we've just covered that.

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You can change a system and not believe in it, you see that? I won't give that example. But that's very, very clear.

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Um, let's see

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yuckiness let's use a 501 c 3501. C, threes cannot endorse particular candidates. But there is other things that 501 C threes, including your machine can do. So if you guys are in the United States, for example, you're subject to United States tax law, you have to understand what your organization is registered as and what it can and cannot do. A 501 C three cannot say we endorse X candidate. They can, however, hold a platform and invite both candidates even if only one candidate shows up. And then ask people questions. I encourage actually everybody in the United States to do that. They've done that in several places across the US and elections coming up. You come up with your

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list of issues your platform, whether this is a congressional election or a city election or something like that. Invite them to the community center, invite them to the masjid have a meal and then grill them, put them on the hot seat, make them feel uncomfortable demand that they serve your needs. They are there to serve your needs. That is the sort of thing that is going to shift the way that people act and create power and create accountability.

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Hasson we address that already Why not vote for Republicans to guarantee Biden's defeat rolling Republicans or not voting does not is not is no different when it comes to ensuring Biden's defeat. They're the same. It's not double impact. And we also explained that it's actually not strategic to tip our hand right now and say what we're going to do positively, it's much more effective to withhold what we're going to do so that people are competing for our votes and willing to change or at least promised to make changes.

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We touched on so some, I think, Queen Ebony's asking about do we cover the topic of choosing lesser of two evils we touched on it, we addressed one particular aspect of it, which is that lot there needs to be a third dimension, or let's say a fourth dimension of time added to the idea of lesser of two evils, it is not sufficient to say we're going to choose the lesser of two evils. And then four years later, say we're going to choose the lesser of two evils. And we haven't done anything. We haven't done anything in between those four years to change the level of evil that the two candidates are we need to be doing sustained action, sustained strategic planning, in order to

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continuously lessen the level of evil that we're being presented to choose among that is what sustainable and robust political engagement looks like.

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Independent Islam asked about forming a lobby, there's a lot of work and energy being put into that right now.

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That's happening.

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And that's an important thing, too. For everybody. Keep in mind, it's not either or the media often wants you to think in terms of either or forget about elections. It's all about lobbying, forget about lobbying. It's all about elections. Yeah. Okay. These are all tools, tools in the toolbox. There's no false dilemma here. We can use all of them.

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And then 11 brings up the question about national level, we sort of sort of have addressed that already.

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So Besant brings up the idea at this point, do we just let the candidates make a statement on Alexa before allowing them to speak? I think that's a great idea. So for example, if you have a congressional election election coming up, like we have one coming up, you're inviting candidates to your community center your message to demand them to take a stance on Gaza. And no two sides nonsense, no lip service.

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Are you going to promise the call for a ceasefire, for example. Now, obviously, once the time for the election actually comes, then this is going to be the political sort of terrain will have shifted. Maybe we're talking about something else. But that's what it's going to take. That's what it's going to look like to get in a politician's head, to make them realize that they are accountable to you that your vote is not already decided. If you say hey, I'm gonna vote for you, but can you please help us out with us? They're not gonna listen to you. If you say, I might vote for you, and I might not vote for you, I might vote for the other guy, I might just sit home. What

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are you? What are you going to do for us? If you say what you're going to do for Gaza, and I believe you and it convinces me then I might give you my vote. That's a situation where you're using your leverage to help somebody actually change.

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On the national level, there's a lot being done with care care, I think is rolling out a political action committee if I'm not mistaken soon, or that's at least what I what I hear. The abandoned Biden campaign is also getting involved in in political action committees.

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That would says well, we don't need any PACs to follow the lead of the Zionists. Well, if the Zionists eat Cocoa Puffs for breakfast, that mean we're gonna abandon Cocoa Puffs to come on. I mean, there's some things that yes, we don't want to take on what exactly the Zionists are doing such as lying, such as treachery, such as, you know, dirty tricks, but there are some things that is just organizing that it is something that is just political intelligence, right? And the weak Hadith says that wisdom is the lost property of the believer.

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Okay, very good. Yes, somebody brings up Satori, I think mentioning about leveraging the people with

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with skills within the community, there are people who have

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they have skills in strategic planning, they have lots of skills we should be leveraging and they should be giving workshops within the message workshops within the community. Right. So that we all skill up we all uplevel we all upgrade right so that we're all moving this forward

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okay, very good. I don't really see any other questions. It looks like that we have, for the most part covered everything. It's a long at all.

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ongoing conversation. But I think the fact that these conversations are happening is a step in the right direction. I mean, the loss of panel data, give us access, and make us not fear the blame of the blamers. And make us stand up for what is just and what is right and what is truthful. And if we rely on Allah subhanaw taala, and we have sincerity, and we exhaust all of our means, then we have no doubt that Allah subhanaw taala promised us success. This is the methodology of the Prophet alayhi salatu salam that was demonstrated in the Battle of Al Aqsa where the Battle of 100 100. And something that are shaken with the initial population could use to tell us that it's a method for

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how to deal with trying times, there are two things required of you. One is to take the means and exhaust all the legitimate means that are available to you, that is represented by digging the trench. And the second thing is then to raise the hands and to pray to the last month Almighty and to rely on him to deliver us. So we have to do both. There is reliance upon a lost funds audit, and there's taking the means, and we will do both, and we rely on a loss Potala to deliver the results. last panel knows best if we've said anything. That's correct. And you notice from the last panel data, we've said anything that's wrong, you know, it's from the shaytaan our own souls. So we ask

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Allah to forgive our shortcomings and keep us moving forward. If we're even 10% right today, that we are 15% right tomorrow and 30% right next week and moving forward. Insha Allah, may Allah bless everybody who tuned in tonight, I said on one on one off to La he were blackouts

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