Channel: The Deen Show
Guys, I'm about to give Smilla 100. Allah Assalamu alaykum greetings of Peace How you doing? New Sarah, nice, I'm about to give Bill Gates himself a dead fly as a gift I'm going to share with you and Bill Gates, something you guys should really look into, as it has to do with the subject. You guys are talking about the fly. But first, let me tell you about flies.
This could be something also really big, my friend. Because we are celebrating something big. We're going to be talking about the flies in general that's mentioned in this hadith.
By the last photo messenger sent by a chi, Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him that for many years didn't make sense to a lot of people. And had many people just denied a hadith altogether. And some for some strange reason shook many people up but for others for the majority, they understood that this was authentic. It was indeed from the last and final messenger pro Muhammad peace and blessings be upon them. He doesn't speak from his wins and desires. They knew something was there. They didn't have the proper tools to be to go ahead and investigate. But today we do. And we're going to be sharing some of that with you Bill Gates, and everybody else who's out there now nice
new Sarah is it that I pronounced Forgive me if I didn't pronounce that right. Sorry, I missed you while you're in Chicago. Thank you for the kind words, I feel bad that we did get a chance to get together Inshallah, God willing, next time you're in town, let's make it happen. And if you send invitation, we can also have you on the D show.
Just one very, very important point. We don't base our reality that this is a deed from the Creator based on scientific discoveries, not at all. Just like at one point in time, human beings thought scientists thought before 1920s that the earth was eternal. But later it came to no be known that it actually had a beginning. And that universe was expanding. But the Quran, God Almighty, Allah, the Creator, the heavens and earth actually talks about this in the Quran. So at one point, when human beings were stuck, believing something that wasn't true, but that was the majority view. We didn't go ahead and change our view. Because the Quran since the beginning talked about the expanding
universe and the universe had a beginning. But surely it was going against science at that particular point in time, and you have 80 90% of scientific facts meant latest discoveries that are confirmed in the Quran, too many to list but just for example, you have the development of human being from the embryonic early stages, it's confirmed it's in the Quran, you have the two barriers of the two types of water in the seas. It is there in the Quran. latest discoveries latest science confirms this, the mountains acting as pegs stabilizes for the earth, how they probably know these things. It's mentioned in the Quran, the splitting of the moon, it's mentioned in the Quran
prophecies, things that are to come in the future. It's mentioned in the Quran, like I said too many things to list. That's not what this particular episodes about. But we're talking about a super hot Allah moment, certain details now, that, for instance, are out there that science is just coming up to speed with. And there's some studies with and so we're going to share this in this particular episode with NASA and the others. And just another important point before we bring on our medical professional, a doctor, someone who's into everything science, this is very important that because it Hadith, paraphrasing, it talks about if a fly was to land in your drink, dip it again before you
drink it and whatnot. But at the end of the day, look, you know, some people might say like, wow, that's a fly, why would you do that some people don't have the convenience of just throwing water away or throwing a specific drink away, that's might be a meal for many people in certain parts of the world impoverished parts of the world. So now you can choose to go ahead and dip that in because one has the ailment and one has the cure. And we're going to get deeper into this. But you can go ahead, you don't have to, you can go ahead and chuck the whole thing out. But let's say you're somebody in an impoverished part of the world. And you just got yourself a hold of a drink a meal
that's in a drink and a fly came in Look at this. And now this can end up contaminating it. But now you heard this hadith. And now it tells you to go ahead and push it further before you drink it because the other part of the wing has the cure Subhan Allah Subhanallah moment and Al Hamdulillah let's go ahead and dig deeper into this
With our guests who will help us to understand this a little bit better with the latest discoveries of science and the scientific studies that revolve around this, we have Dr. Who Sam l Hirsch Muslim from Brooklyn, New York, with an interest in everything science says I'll make them how're you doing? My brother? I go south, the lady. How are you doing today? Good. I'm the law. I'm the law. So tell us a little bit about this hadith that talks about the fly? Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean, interestingly, have you been self is been controversial for some time, from both an Islamic and a scientific perspective. So if you do some research online and look at some of the PhDs and
dissertations that people have written about, from the Islamic perspective, you can see that they've gone back and looked at this hadith for reasons before it became a scientific sort of interest. So I came across a couple of dissertations and papers that people wrote, where they kind of looked at, you know, just whether the hadith is authentic or not, that's the sort of the first step there, I think about couple of narrations of the Hadith about 13. But for the most part, we can see is that it's found in both in the body at least, and it was considered authentic. So now, once you sort of determined that the Hadith itself is authentic, now, you have to reconcile it with how you
understand and how you accept, right. So historically, even, you know, historically, for a long time ago, Muslim scholars have documented people being and again, when we say people, like people who have a faith, or a problem with the way that they can sort of accept Hadith that don't make sense to them have issues with this hadith. So commentators have said things like, you know, how could it be that this fly, that is dirty? If you soak it into the fluid more is clean? And how is it that you know, the fly gets to decide which part of it is dirty? Which part of it's clean? And how is it that there's a part that's a cure for a part, that's an illness. And, understandably, if you look at the
Muslim history, 1400 years of history, long predates germ theory, and people did not really have an understanding of, you know, bacteria, viruses, they didn't really understand how diseases were transmitted. Now we have a better understanding. And now we're starting to have a better insight into how this could possibly work. So long history of kind of this hadith being looked at from different perspectives. So more recently,
there are different approaches of trying to understand what's going on here. So the first kind of group of people who have looked at this, I said, Okay, well, let's just see if you know how this manifests. Because we think that, you know, in the modern understanding, we think this means of the fly being dipped into the solution. So the hadith is as if the fly lands in your soup, then, you know, before you let it fly away, push it in.
And so one way of possibly making sense of this, in our modern understanding,
is to say, well, maybe they were talking, they'll say Saddam was talking about germs. And so
Muslim scientists, in modern times, have basically done an experiment. And there are multiple experiments on this topic that have been documented, and published. Basically, take solutions, some piece of papers, look at water, some papers, look at milk, and they say, let's let the fly stand in the solution. And then let's dunk the fly into a different solution. And let's see what grows out of both the solutions. And they do this over and over again, to see what grows in one doesn't grow on the other one.
And more than one paper from different places in the world, including, I'll share some resources later. But we looked at an Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Malaysia. I think we saw one in the Philippines, where they said, Look, you know, we've repeatedly demonstrated that taking, you know, whether it's water, milk, saline solution, any kind of liquid if the fly just lands in it, and we see how much bacteria will grow from there. And we compare that to milk, water, saline, whatever, that we don't get in, constantly show that the one where it's dumped in, grows less bacteria.
In other experiments, they start with solution that's already contaminated. They start with a solution that already has some sort of bacteria in it. The one paper that did this looked at ecoli. And they again, dunk the fly to see to show that even if the fly never stepped in the solution, just dunking it in does seem to have some antibacterial properties. So other papers have taken this a step further and said, Well, let's try to understand how this is going on. And they've tried to propose medicine
atoms mechanisms like, you know, we see we have this effect that we see it. It kind of agrees in one way with what the sweat i said I'm told us, but is it because of, you know, a fungus? Is it because of a bacteria? Farge? Is it something else? And different mechanisms have been proposed? I think the three or four sort of most popular ones. So one of them is that the bacteria, you know, the the fly sorry, as it flies around lands in filth, that's what bacteria do, they land in their feces or rotting garbage, pick up bacteria on their feet. And then if they land somewhere else, they move that bacteria around, and that maybe the bacteria that lives on the fly itself.
comebacks that bacteria that's on a tree. So that's one possibility. So we have bacteria that kind of opposes other bacteria.
Another possibility is that it's not bacteria, but it's a fungus and the fly encourages a certain type of fungus to grow on its body. And this fungus opposes bacteria. This is not unusual in science, because that's what penicillin is. I mean, penicillin is produced by fungus. Our first or not, maybe not the first one, some of the earliest antibiotics were derived from fungus. So this is kind of easy to understand.
Another possibility, and this has been documented in Not, not in flies, but in other insects. So the cicadas, for example, paper published in Nature, showed that the wing itself, the wings themselves, the way that their structure is, causes bacteria to die. When it touches them, it kind of physically shreds bacteria. Now, this was not demonstrated in the house fly, but it's another theory that's been proposed. And finally, there's the theory of foliage. Or maybe basically a virus that infects bacteria, just like viruses can affect people, viruses can affect bacteria that maybe there's a fog that lives on the fly. And that causes the flight. Now, Muslim scientists have looked at these
possibilities, and there are papers out there. I don't know that there's a conclusive one, meaning there's one that says, hey, this is the way it works. And this is the final answer. But there are theories out there. And there are different scientists sort of trying to explain it in different ways. What we know from the published literature is that there is in fact, an effect, that a fly, a solution that has the whole flight dunked into it will grow less bacteria than a different flight. But that does leave us with
a couple of issues. I mean, we're here we're assuming the little slice that I was talking about bacteria. We don't know that that's the case, though. So suddenly, we're talking about something that we haven't discovered yet. Right? Let's not forget, for the last 1000 years, we didn't know about bacteria, and people didn't understand how the we discovered bacteria, were saying that it's talking about bacteria. But it may be something that we haven't even learned about yet. But assuming we're talking about bacteria, though, so he said I'm talks about one wing being different from the other wing.
These theories, for the most part, don't really differentiate between the wings, there's one paper from Saudi Arabia, where the researchers actually clip the wings. And they dunked only the right wing of the fly. But the Hadith doesn't say the right wing, it says one wing will have the cure, one wing will have the disease.
These researchers don't just the right wing, and they showed that yes, with the right wing, less bacteria grow. So that's great. But what they didn't do in the paper, and that's a weakness in their research. And I'd have to reach out to them to see you know, why they didn't do this is they should have really done both wings, they should have done the right wing, and then done the left wing on the same flight to show that there's a difference. They didn't do that. So Allahu Allah with the with the what the true wisdom behind the hadith is, you know, as Muslims, these things for us, we see them and we appreciate them. We say it was Hannah luck. But also I said, I've said something
that for more than 1000 years, nobody could make sense out of and people ridiculed it. Even people that were living in Muslim lands at the time, they said, you know, like, how would it how is it that a dirty fly is cleaner to the food, if you don't get more doesn't make sense. It's it's not logical. And the people who took it, you know, as fake as they said, This is Hadith, and they just accepted it. Now, they at least have a way of explaining it. Now as Muslims for us this is you know, so we say subhanallah we look at it, glory be to God, our Creator, He, He gave His messenger and his servant, you know, information that now we are only beginning to understand, and maybe this is the
way to understand it. But it may not be the actual final answer, but it is an interesting observation that we've made. And, as we've, as we've mentioned before, there are many similar examples like this in the prophetic traditions, where that also I said gives advice that that for a very long time, we don't have an explanation for it from different perspectives, some of its psychological, some of it medical, and later on we start to understand the reality there was a wisdom there
Just a couple questions before we conclude. So the conclusion at the end is that there is a differentiation in the two wings. One has the ailment one has the cure is what's the conclusion at the end.
Most of the papers don't look at the wings. Most of the papers look at just fly just landing on a solution, just stepping on it sitting on it, versus fly being dunked into it.
Most papers show a difference between that. And they show that if you dunk a fly into the solution, actually, even one paper said they showed they said, look, here's a solution with just a fly the student grew. You know, I don't know the exact number we'll say 1000 bacterial colonies don't take once it's 700 200 700. So it's less dunked it twice. It's 500. Even less, dunked it three times, it's even less. And they showed that the more times you dunked it, the more this antibacterial effect occurred. Antibacterial for the layman means what?
So, I mean, bacteria is a an organism that lives so anti, so it's anti, it's fighting the bacteria. So that's something. Yeah. So that so that would translate to fighting the disease. In layman's terms? No. Well, I mean, the bacteria itself can cause disease. Yeah, I mean, the FDA says, you know, like a good percentage of the 20%, maybe higher of a foodborne illnesses are probably true, you know, transmitted or can be transmitted by flies, you know, you put a bowl of macaroni salad out, and you turn away, and a fly that was just, you know, swimming in something rancid outside comes in lands in that food, that fly may have been in feces may have been in you know, rotting
food, or even just dirt, picks up bacteria, now brings this bacteria into the food and deposits it there.
This bacteria could be ecoli, it could be salmonella could be many different organisms that the flight picked up, and it just moved it from place to place. And now that food is contaminated. And the Hadith basically says that if you observe this, and you want to eat the food, that's not saying you have to do this and eat the food. But if you want to eat the food, then before you eat it, don't just let the fly go actually push the fly into the food first. So you get that anti bacterial element. When you do that, that's what the research suggests. That's research. That's, then when you do that, what that when you do that, when they did that in experiments, and then they took that food
where they didn't use food they use like sugar water, you know, or they use milk in one of the experiments. And then you see how many bacteria in there? It's less than if you had not done well. Subhan Allah so there's something here? Yeah. 100 obviously, we don't base our faith on science, science changes and develops and whatnot. People who heard this hadith 100 234 or 500 years ago, they accepted it because it linked back to the Prophet last fund a messenger sent to mankind probably Muhammad peace and blessings be upon them. They didn't get their their faith shaken their demand shaken. But it's unfortunate many Muslims now they can't explain something away. And now they
have no, you know, science and whatnot, and then they just fall apart. It's sad to say, but here for even those people who are kind of on the border, you got no excuse. Now you got something, at least you can go back to. Yeah, at least for this one. I mean, pretty pretty, you know, a lot of things that are in our faith, there may be beyond our understanding. So, in this example, we came to understand it, you know, and like I said, there may be deeper understanding that we still Yeah, but at least there's something here. But, you know, for the people who accepted it, they went out, they hope they were right all along. Uh hum. Did Allah does this also, last question, Does this also link
back to a German site? German, a scientist, we often hear that some German German scientists did many tests and confirm this. Is this part of that research? That you're citing some German scientists? I'm not sure which specific scientists have done this. I could look at it. But I could say that. In the last two years, there's more than 10 papers probably published on this on this 10. Okay, so if there wasn't pretty, it's a pretty active topic of interest these days in the Muslim world. So if you look at you know, you're not going to find in the papers that I found were not like New England Journal of Medicine or, but they were published in journals and peer reviewed journals
were legitimate research, statistics, the full kind of gamut. Somebody went there did the work, that the experiment, had the results, wrote it up, sent it for people to review it, to make sure that their results and their methodology and their analysis made sense. That's the peer review process, and then published it in a journal. They're published in a journal of microbiology, from Muslim countries, journals of medicine for Muslim countries. And, you know, so there is an interest in there, and I think it makes sense. And here's here's why I think it makes sense. Anti microbials antibiotics, the medicine
that we use today. Almost all medicines that we use originally came from something natural. And what I mean by that is, you know, people used to chew on a leaf, they found that this leaf relieve their pain. Scientists looked at that figured, hey, in this leaf is a chemical. Let's take that chemical out. They called it aspirin, right? scientists noticed that, hey, when there's a fungus that grows, that was growing, it killed all the bacteria in my, in my dish. They investigated it, they discovered penicillin. I think that here, the scientists that are looking at this are saying, We don't know why we don't know exactly how. But we can say that we're looking at this because of this
heavy, if there wasn't a hadith, they would never even look at this. But because we have this hadith, we're taking the flies, and we're dunking it in, you know, in the solutions, and it's killing the bacteria. So we're interested in learning why, because somehow there might be a benefit to society, they may find that, hey, the fly makes a chemical, or the fly carries of, you know, a virus that kills bacteria, find it, identify it, isolate it, put it in a factory, make gallons of it and cure disease. That's really the interest of why people are looking at this. If there's a way to kill bacteria that we have not discovered yet. It may be there. And because of this hadith, they're
looking in that direction. And they're finding results. They just don't know why. Yeah. Alright, last question. If the bill gates as many questions as you want, if the bill gates of the world and gnoss, who recently did a program on this with Bill Gates, if any of them are interested now. And they want to go ahead and explore this more, because they're talking about, you know, healing people in South Africa for many of the diseases out there and flies being responsible. And they just hear the term fly. Now, there's this hadith and whatnot. And where could you point them in what direction that they can go look at some of these studies?
So I'll share I'll share a list of the studies with you so they can at least start there. They should come watch the deen show. And I'll give you a list of the studies that I found interesting on this topic. They're all new. Um, there are there are studies on this topic going back 30 years. Some of the early work was you know, I think in the 90s, some of the some scientists started to look at this, but it's really picked up in the recent years. So at least they can start there. That's your question. Yeah, we'll get those from you. And we'll leave in the description inshallah. Just Oklahoma. Thank you so much, doctor. Your doctor has, um, thank you so much. So we bought we brought
a, a person in the field of science. Dr. Sam, thank you so much for being with us. And going over this with us. You're very, you're very welcome. Can I just give a disclaimer. So absolutely. I'm not a Muslim scholar.
So take anything that I say If I slap please with a grain of salt and verify it and confirm it.
I am a medical doctor. But my specialty is pediatric critical care. And this this this topic, specifically, the experts in this topic would really be a microbiologist. So I know about this, because I have an interest in it. And I've read up on it. But technically, it's not my area of expertise. So just, you know, so if anybody find something that is better than what I've said, please take that and accept it. And share it with me. I won't be offended. Absolutely. And the people, the people who did the study, obviously, they were the experts in these fields. Yes, yes. They wrote it up. They're mostly microbiologist microbiologist, so study people who study bacteria.
And just one last again, I keep saying one last thing. But this is obviously obviously if this was something that at the beginning of one study or two, if there was nothing there, there wouldn't be further studies, right? Well, I think I think you know, so let's, let's look back, and let's put our mind ourselves in the minds of the first person, right? At some point, 4050 years ago, some guy saw this hadith, who maybe was a microbiologist and said, let me check to see if there's something there. Let me we don't know what the size sound was talking about, you know, a cure and a poison. But let me see if it makes a difference for bacteria. tried this, and there was a difference. Now,
since then, people have caught on and their motivations could be different motivations. Some of them may have seen that initial paper and said, I don't believe it. Let me verify it. You know, if you don't believe a study, you go, and you try to duplicate it to show that it doesn't happen. And maybe they were surprised. They tried to duplicate it to show that it wasn't real. And they were surprised. Maybe they said, You know, I I agree with it. But let me take it to the next step. He just showed that bacteria grew. I want to take it to the next step and see what kind of bacteria we have better tools. Now, I want to do genetic analysis, see what's specifically different about the
bacteria. And maybe there was funding. I mean, if I don't know, you know, the papers I saw the funding was not corporate, but it's not out of the question for a corporation to come and say, hey, you know, we'll give you some money. Do some research for us. If you find anything
It's ours, we patented? That's not out of the question. I don't know that that's the case in any of these. I think they were publicly publicly funded by the governments of these Muslim countries. But a lot of them I haven't seen every single paper out there. But I was surprised, I've looked at this topic years ago, and years ago, it was much more, much fewer papers to look at. And in our conversation recently, I've done some more looking and just to sort of see, like, oh, what's happening with the field, and I was impressed to see, you know, more papers being being put out there. Part of that is, you know, as the as the Muslim world kind of adopts,
you know, you know, a more sort of academic rigorous approach to research, maybe that's part of it, maybe it's just, it's really becoming popular. I mean, another possibility is that we are in a world where we're facing worsening antibiotic resistance. The bacteria, you know, the antibiotics that we used 5060 years ago, are not working as well, the bacteria are getting used to them, they're getting resistant. And we're in a struggle right now to develop new
antibiotics. You know, penicillin used to work for everything, or for a lot of things doesn't. And then we've gone says, you know, multiple new generations of drugs, we keep changing them and updating them, and the bacteria just get used to it, and they adapt, and they become resistant. So there is a more interest now to look for anything that could possibly kill bacteria. And that may be motivating some of these people as well. Okay, one last thing was this one of those because obviously, we don't base our faith, our aim on a lot of these details, we base it on the Quran, which is a living miracle, you have evidence in there, that is indeed from the Creator of the
heavens and earth, when you study the life of Prophet Muhammad, you see that there's no way that he could have gotten this from anyone other than from the Divine, the created heavens and earth, you look at the living miracle of the Quran, the prophecies, you know, and all the other testable evidence that that's there, but then you have the Subhanallah moments, right? You have all these, like, I just did a program. Last week, and I talked about the BBC article that talks about the sugar is rubbing in the baby's mouth. And we know we have the date, you know, from that you put the regulator sugar. Yeah, that helps to prevent the premature babies from having brain damage is I was
like, it was a Subhanallah moment, right? It's like, wow, we have this, we don't base our mind around this, but it's like, hamdulillah just another proof upon proof that he's not speaking from itself, you know, for his desires, because he did called out and things would just fall apart. But was this another one of those Subhanallah moments for you?
Absolutely. I mean, you know, for me, at one point, I, I delved into the world of atheism a little bit before I became a Muslim. And, and what you what you realize is that
these kinds of things, you know, and maybe maybe as Muslims, we are so happy when we come across these things that we try to make them the crux of the religion, the scientific miracles are not the crux of the religion, the Quran, like you said, the Cinda these are the crux of the religion, these are the things that we in our religion,
But if the creator, you know, is directly sending a message to the Quran, or inspiring his messenger, to say something, then we expect for it to be accurate. And we expect for it to reflect reality. And sometimes that's not obvious at the time.
But eventually, it's like, wow, how Allah, it's amazing. I understand that. Now. I see why that, that, you know, I see why and how that works. And I think, you know, the, the examples are countless, because every time I read through the CETA, and look at different examples, you see things and you're like, well, Subhan Allah, it's like, I now have a better understanding for something that maybe for a long time people just took for granted. This holiday the other day, I was reading an example of the site set up. One time his candle was upset, it was angry, and everybody was afraid to hang up, who's Campbell, another candle, everybody was afraid to approach it. And he
took a piece of green grass food, you know, for the camel, and he stood right in front of it. And he paused and he showed it the food. And he approached it a little bit and he motioned and it came and, and somehow, it's like, I was talking to a friend of mine who's like a veterinarian is like, that's like animal psychology. Like, that's a field that like people are like, you're just envisioning, like, you know, how he's even at the at the level of an animal, you know, at a time when it's like, say that last part, you thought you spoke to a veterinarian, veterinarian, friend of mine, who's an animal, Doctor, I said, like, check this out. What do you think? And he's like, you know, because
they have these these shows now with the dog whispers that whispers and they're like, he's like, animal psychologist. He's like, this guy's like
You know, he's, he's behaving like an animal psychologists Suhana it's another Subhanallah moment. Yeah, it's a moment like, like, I'm sure for 1000 years, people read that narration and they were just like, Oh, interesting story like, doesn't mean anything. And now as our understanding develops, we start to sort of have an appreciation or a deeper appreciation for those ways that I actually came with and what and and what it means really when we say he's a mercy sent as a mercy to mankind. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Dr.
May Allah bless you, thank you for spend some time with us and going over this. This heavy, it's a pleasure to suckle, has salami cryptolocker at Microsoft. So there you have it. Nice to share. Hope you enjoyed this and everybody else listening. I hope you guys appreciated this and it was another Subhanallah moment for you as it was for me. So continue to tune in I got a surprise for you. Go ahead. And if you really like what we were talking about, you want to learn more about Islam that pure monotheism, you want to know about the purpose of life, why you be created, why you're here, go ahead and and visit the deen show.com where you can get your free copy of the Quran that's right
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