Firas Zahabi Destroys Stephen Frys Complaining and Insulting God Argument – Good and evil

A day. How dare you create a world in which there is such misery? That is not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly utterly evil Did you know that Steven Fisher I believe because the God who created this universe if it was created by God is quite clearly a maniac utter maniac the God is so great I've got a so kind of got a sort of benevolent I've got a so nice Why is there evil in the world? Why are little children you know, dying from cancer like you said, what people really after is what is my stance on religion or spirituality or God did that show

to

me

Bismillah Alhamdulillah Salam aleikum, greetings, peace. Now my next special guest is no stranger to the show. We have a lot to talk about my brother a lot to catch up on. I missed this guy missed this brother. This is going to be a very exciting, informative, educational, purposeful, enlightening show inshallah God willing, could end up being a life changing episode for those who are open minded and searching for the truth and meaning in life going from meaning less to meaningful. Without further ado, my brother, your brother, for Razavi Salam alikoum. So I'm gonna come over there are you? I'm the law here of the law to mean good. How's it going? Amazing. Thank you. Good to see you

again. It's been it's been a list. It's been too long. I know. I know. They got I know, they got you locked up there in Canada. You guys can't move, but

it's pretty rough. Here. It's getting better. It's getting a lot better. Now. There's a new Omni Quran scare. So you know, we're trying to keep it. We're hoping it doesn't escalate like it did last year. But, ya know, the Canadian government is very,

I should I see. very adamant. One COVID.

By you guys, how's everything in Chicago? I mean, same thing, pretty much not as bad as in in catechin. Canada. But uh, you know, that's a whole whole different discussion. You know, it's, it's crazy. But and Hamdulillah. I wanted to, we have a lot to catch up on, I'm kind of gonna be all over the place. But I want to get your I want to start off with this. This video, and I want to get your reaction to it. And from there, we'll take off. Suppose it's all true. And you walk up to the pearly gates and you are confronted by God? What will Stephen Fry say to him? Or are it I will basically notice the Odyssey I think I say bone cancer in children. What's that a bad day? How dare you create

a world in which there is such misery? That is not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect the capricious, mean minded, stupid God, who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?

That's what I'd say. And you think you're going to get in, but I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to get in on his terms. They're wrong. Now, if I died, and it was, it was Pluto, Hades. And if it was the 12 Greek gods, then I would have more truck with it because the Greeks were. They didn't pretend not to be human, in their appetites, and in their capriciousness. And in their unreasonableness, they didn't present themselves as being all seem always all kind, all beneficent, because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac, totally selfish, total, we have to spend our life on our least thanking, what kind of God would do that?

Yes, the world is very splendid, but it also has an IT insect whose whole lifecycle is to burrow into the eyes of children and make them blind that eat outwards from the eyes.

Why? Why did you do that to us? You could easily have made a creation in which that didn't exist. It is simply not acceptable. So you know, atheism is not just about not believing there is is not believing there's a God but on the assumption that there is one what kind of God is it perfectly apparent these monsters utterly monsters and deserves no respect whatsoever? moment you banish him, life becomes simpler, pure cleaner, more worth living in my

a lot to unpackage here, but I think I think I got the right man for the job.

Where do you want to where do you want to start? Well, you didn't you didn't minute to to dissect everything. No, no, no, no. Question. Yeah, very classic question. You know, and I have a lot to say about Are you familiar with this famous actor course? I know the actor. No, no, but the argument? Yes. Yeah. But he's a pretty famous actor comedian in the UK. Yeah. What's it you know? His name is Steven fish, I believe. Okay, no, I'm not familiar. I'm sure you know, he looks familiar. I'm sure I've seen him on TV but not

I'm not sure I wouldn't I wouldn't know he was an actor. If you ask me, What Is he our thought is on TV, but I don't know if he's so people are listening to this man. I mean, this guy makes a statement and you got millions of people who are listening to him and many get influenced, right? Well, you know, he's he's taking a self defeating position. This is known what he's what he's talking about is known as the problem of evil.

Epicurious said, you know, he said, Look, if if God is so great, I've got a soul kind of got a sort of benevolent I've got a so nice, why is there evil in the world? Why are little children you know, dying from cancer? Like he said, Why is there evil in the world?

Either God doesn't care. He's not so nice, or you can't do anything about it. Either way, he's not a god. So if a God if he wasn't God, if he was perfect, he would Karen prevented. And if he cannot prevent it, then he's not all powerful. Therefore, he's not a god. So in their mind, they're saying, Look, there's the can't be a god.

But here's the here's what they shoot themselves in the foot. Here's where the position is self defeating. And again, this is a very old argument, what he's bringing up it's a very, very old arguments, a very short sighted argument is, how would you know there's evil?

If there is no God, if we live in a cold, dead universe,

if we're nothing but chemicals, and, and and particles, if we're nothing if we're nothing but materialism, if everything is chemistry and physics.

It would be like saying sticks and stones are complaining about evil, if we are just sticks and stones, if we are just physics and chemistry, there is no such thing. If there is no God, there is no such thing as evil. By saying you see an evil in the world, you are admitting you are admitting that there is a God and that's not just me saying this is a rationalist throughout the ages, because there is without God there is no evil.

Without God, there is no right and wrong.

If there's no God, everything is permissible. This is a classic quote here throat.

I'm forgetting the author's name. But if if there is no God, everything is permissible. There is no halal or haram, there is no good or bad, there's no evil. How come if we're nothing but machinery? How can this is the classic rebuttal to this question? How come if we are

machinery? How come before? How come if we are nothing but physics and chemistry? How do you even know how come you're conscious of evil? This is the question. Oh, yes, to have some introspect here. And he's gonna say, look, I see the world as good and bad.

But there is no this is a classic question in the works of Plato. It's called the Euthyphro dilemma.

This Gods say something is haram, because it's this God say something is evil, or good?

Because it has the germ of evil or good within it? Or is it evil or good? Because God said, so it could have been murder could have been good. If God said murder is good. You could have flipped it. It's relative to what God's opinion is, or is murder in itself evil. This is a youth Fair Use a Freudian dilemma. This man is single, I see evil in the world, but I don't see a God.

There is no evil in the world if the world is if your children atheist materialist philosopher.

It's a self defeating position, there is no evil. Why do you think

Stalin and Hitler could kill millions of people and then sleep well at night.

Because in their minds, they didn't believe there was good or evil.

killing somebody, if I remove your head off your shoulders, it's the same as if I move this coffee mug from one place to the other on my desk. It's just I took material and I rearranged material from one place to another, if you're truly an atheist, a human being is just a machine. It's like It's like removing the wheel off your car and replacing it with another wheel or are scrapping your car completely. It's just physics and chemistry, there is nothing else by saying by saying he sees evil in the world. This is what Hume called, you can't get an OT from an is the world is this way and you're saying it ought to be this this other way. So for instance, he sees a child with cancer and

he says, Look, it ought to be a child with no cancer that child should have a perfect life. Human saying look if we're going to be atheists, if we're going to say there's no God we cannot say off. We cannot say this The world should ought to be like this. If we are atheist, so the fact that he's taking this position is self defeating. Now I have a lot more things to say but I want to let you jump in on this but it's interesting he also how is he connecting? He's talking about now the pagan gods also he starts diverting and talking about these pagan gods. Yeah, I think he's trying to say that look, the pagan gods weren't perfect. You know, they were more human than Yeah. God of the

monotheistic religion, you know, the god of money because the pagan gods were selfish, they went to war.

with each other, they're very human like.

So he's saying it's more it's more logical to believe in them.

But yeah, he's saying that I think he's making more of a joke. Yeah, obviously not true. But at least they're cooler. You know, they're, they're more

I could understand that those gods would build this world world because they were selfish, and they don't really, they don't really care too much about human beings. Sometimes they like certain human beings, and they favor them. And other times they dislike certain human beings. And those are the guys that we make just made human beings make up in their own mind. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's it's what we call a compounded idea. Yeah. The idea of God, you think the idea of war and then you make the, the water? Yeah. So it's a compounded idea. It's not it's not a an idea that's experienced in the world. So he, I think it was kind of making a joke. He's kind of say, Look, don't tell me you

have a perfect God. Because look at his works. Look at his works. Because you have to understand, like, many thinkers, like has led to liveness, whether they were Muslim or Christian thinkers, they said, look, the world we live in is a perfect world.

The world we live in is a perfect world. Why? Because God made the world hence, it's perfect. It's your interpretation of the world. It's human interpretation of the world.

That it's the lack of faith that gives us this imperfect view. Now, this is a very

concrete Islamic idea, in my opinion, when you read the Quran, the Quran is telling you, the world was made this way on purpose.

When when you see a child, less cancer, like you mentioned, there's a head like we say, in Islam, we said there's a good in there that you don't see. You'll see once you have the totality of evidence. You don't have the totality of evidence yet. But there is a wisdom behind it. There's something very good See, he's working from a faulty premise. What's his name again? The gentleman. I believe it's Steven fish. Let me double check. Yeah, though, this this gentleman here, whatever his name is. I wish I can address somebody his name, but

he's, he's, he's presupposing.

He's Stephen. Yeah. Stephen Fry. Stephen Fry. Okay. Stephen Fry. Yeah, not fish, Stephen Fry. Supposing the death is the greatest evil, because he's an atheist. He thinks that when you die, the lights go out. And that's it. You can't have any more worldly pleasures, therefore, you've been cut off from experience you've been excluded from experience. He's presupposing. It's the end. But what if death is not the end, let's say death is just another

dimension, you enter another dimension, maybe that child that died from cancer

is in a place right now of comfort. He doesn't know that he's presupposing, the child's fate was a disastrous one.

He hasn't crossover from life to death. He's presupposing that and this is clear in the Quran. You know, you're presupposing it says, you know, it talks about martyrs don't say they're dead.

They're like, you just perceive it not you don't perceive it. So the Quran is telling you Look, don't presuppose you know, everything, don't think you have the totality of evidence, there is more to come.

And that more to come.

If you have faith, that to you is not so final. So this is a counter argument. He is presupposing, something he has no proof of. Now, it's like for instance, if you imagine, look at your child, and your child

breaks his toy, let's say breaks your store and your child's in torment, because his toy is broken.

You look at your child, and you're thinking, look, this is just a such a small event in your life, you're going to get over it. There's so many good things coming your way that the parent, when you look at the child, he kind of smile that he's crying over his broken toy, you know, you're going to replace it for him like this, you know, you're going to make things better for him. And this is just a little bump in the road. And also it's going to help him mature in a way there's some good in this, etc. How you look at your child.

The wiser man will look at you. And of course, God will look at us.

When somebody dies, if your narrative is that's the end, of course, I understand. He's tormented. I understand that he feels that way. I understand that he he he's having negative thoughts. But in the, in the believers mind, in the religious mind, we don't see it as the end.

So he's taking a different narrative, and he's presupposing that narrative to be true.

You know, in the Quran, that tells you when you're resurrected, when you live again, God's gonna ask you How long were you in this world, the present world we're in today. And we're going to see it as a very temporary amount of time. Oh, a day, maybe a day and a half. Similar to how you remember a dream.

When you're dreaming if you're having a nightmare to you that nightmare. You know, maybe the dream was 20 minutes, but in your mind that dream was an eternity or it was you know, for you have a lifetime, let's call it

when you wake up from the dream. You're like, Oh, it's just a dream. You Don't lament about it. You don't wish that it never happened. You move on. It was a little bump in the road and there was

Something you can take from it and you had an experience you've experienced a bad job so you appreciate your good dreams. There's some wisdom there that we can discuss we can unpack later. However, you Don't lament about it and say, Why did I have this bad dream? I'm never I never want to dream again. I'm never going to fall asleep again. I never want to experience I never I don't want to go on anymore because I had a bad dream. In Islam, we like in this world. The Quran likens this world as a dream.

And everything's gonna be made right? Everything's gonna be made right. This is what Immanuel Kant you know, this I was fascinated by Immanuel Kant because he was his philosophies even though he wasn't Muslim. He was so close like, my using reason He came, He said, He came so close to what things what, what are said things that are sending Islam actually.

And I was even more surprised when I saw his PhD thesis and he wrote on on his PhD thesis he wrote Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim, which was shocking to me.

And, you know, I was this again, this was

Immanuel Kant was our is arguably one of the greatest thinkers of all time. And he wrote on his thesis in the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. That's correct. You know, he's talking about something, which is fascinating to me. And nobody really even knows why, like, we have there's a lot of theories on why and one of them is that he was very influenced by a contemporary of his a friend of his name, good day, good days, like they call him the German Shakespeare, one of the greatest intellects in history and got they have incredible reverence for the Quran. Yeah, absolutely love the Quran. Actually got the actually said it's our duty to believe in the Quran. He

actually wrote a poem about the Prophet that he was so adamant about Christianity, excuse me, Islam, that some some people believe that maybe that's what

got this influence. And there's a lot of theories on how that that some of that man that I hate that those letters got on his on his thesis, but if you if you listen to, if you listen to whatever Kant's argument, it's very Islamic. It's incredibly Islamic. He says, Look, I believe in the summum bonum the southern bottom is the greatest good. And now this is very interesting, because extremely interesting argument because I believe that it's extremely, I mean, it's embedded in the Quran, like you can't, you can't deny it. It's an that comes from the Quran. He says, Look, I look into the world and I see a lot of evil I see things I see bad people get away with things.

And they live in old age, and they die and they die comfortably in their bed. It's not fair. Okay, I'm paraphrasing, he doesn't work like this at all. I'm just kind of giving you a modern rendition of it, okay.

Some guy was really evil lived a good, a good life, meaning he his belly was full. He had a nice house, he had riches, he had all the things of the of the, you know, that anybody would want, you can you know, you have plenty of resources. And he died comfortably in his bed.

But he was a bad guy, you know, he's, he abused people. He was a he was a drug lord, or whatever it may be, whatever evils he he made his money with.

And then he goes in the grave and cactus saying,

it can't be how it ends. Not to say there must be an afterlife and things are made. Just

why did he say that? Like, how did he make that logical leap? He says, Look, I have within me this moral law. Because I can I can see evil and good.

I see good and bad. There could be no such a conscious experience without God. God put in with us a moral law.

So he likens it to seeing something beautiful like he sees, you know, you see, the starry skies above the starry skies above are beautiful. Why would you see beauty if we're just if we are just machinery if we are just physics and chemistry if we are just sticks and stones so to speak? If we are just valves opening and closing.

There would be no beauty there would be no morality, there would be no sense of good and evil, we are touched by something.

And this is where I'll give you a famous agnostic is that this is not just people who are religious that say this like for instance, a famous agnostic said something amazing. I find he said something incredible. That I think is lost on most people he said and this is a Thomas Huxley, I'm quoting now they call him Darwin's Bulldog case. He was very adamant about Darwinism. He was the or Darwin's greatest defender in his time. So they call him Darwin's Bulldog. He said, Look.

He says,

he says the mind the brain. And the mind is like if I took a lamp, you know a lamp and I rubbed it in a magic genie came out. Imagine taking a lamp just it's just chemistry and physics. And I rub it and a magic genie came out. He says, Look, if the brain if Why is the brain a physical thing, something that when it gets excited, a mind comes of it. You have consciousness you have all these inner experiences. You have this realm, this dimension where good and evil exists where morality exists. He said look this

Divine this is something outside of chemistry and chemistry and physics now in the Quran the way it's explained God creates Adam from a clay or mud or whatever you wanna say. And then he breathes into him something very unique. Is the rule something, something divine were touched by something divine. Now that's how the Quran puts it. But you have you have a first person experience of this. Yes, your body is an object in the world we have, we live in the world, we are sticks and stones to a certain degree, I am part chemistry and physics. Yet, however, within us, there's something else there's this thing that's alien, it's transcendent.

And even cut admits to this concept. Look, how do I have this morality meet this morality in me, it's telling me that there's more. There is good and bad. And the balances have to be at the end of the day

has to be the debt has to be paid.

If it wasn't the case, if it was untrue, that there's an X life and morality and why would I have this died this inner,

this inner calling this inner experience, sticks and stones could never have this leap. This is oftentimes called that referred to in our modern day as Absurdism. Think about it. Imagine

it's just another way of think about absurd of Absurdism as another way of thinking about it. Imagine

every human being we're born with a sense to connect with something greater. What is the meaning of all this? If the world if the world we live in had no meaning it would be the greatest absurdity?

It would be the absolute greatest absurdity, the argument to say that the universe, if we're just universe, if we're just chemicals in chemistry, physics, then we're just talking to ourselves, it's we are the universe talking to itself meaninglessly

that is the most absurd idea possible.

Because it would be like a robot becoming conscious and realizing that his existence is futile. If it's referred to as Absurdism. Yeah, I want to go ahead and connect another term that's often use. So you have atheism, he's an atheist. And also, the statement that you believe, which we can go ahead substantiate, you know, that it's a we'll get into that is is actually a true statement, or if somebody's covering up what's just intrinsically a part of their fit that are a part of their nature. So there's another term here by an old friend of ours, that last time you were in Chicago, we, we talked about some of the things he's discusses, let's get into this. And then we connect the

two terms often asked, in occasionally in an accusatory way. Are you atheist?

You know, the only issed I am, is a scientist, right? I don't associate with movements. I don't, I'm not in ism. I just, I think for myself, the moment once someone attaches you to a philosophy or a movement, then they assign all the baggage and all the rest of the philosophy that goes with it to you. And when you want to have a conversation, they will assert that they already know everything important there is to know about you because of that association. And that's not the way to have a conversation.

I'm sorry, it's not.

I'd rather we explore each other's ideas in real time, rather than assign a label to it, and assert, you know, what's going to happen in advance.

So what people really after is, what is my stance on religion or spirituality or God? And I would, I would say, if I'd find a word that came closest, it would be agnostic. There you go. That's the term. So we got atheism, atheist, agnostic, connecting these two and you're familiar with, obviously, the scientists. We discussed last time, Neil Neil deGrasse Tyson, very famous figure. So people will think how can someone who is deeply into science, when you compare the Bedouin, who's walking in the desert, and he sees the footsteps, he doesn't have the kind of the greys the scientists has, but he sees the footsteps of the camel. And he knows, you know, he sees the dung and

the footsteps of the camel. He knows a camel was here, right? And then if when he looks at the universe, He knows that okay, this equals that there has to be a creditor universe and then a great thinker, Ibn Taymiyyah. He says, you're asking me for signs, you know, of, of the crater, and you're blind to the all the signs around you. They're all over. So how does this guy who sees looks out into the universe, He sees all of this, he doesn't see.

Well, you know, I respect his view. He's saying, Look, I don't want to tell you what isms I'm closest to because then you're just gonna labeled me I understand. He wants us to unpack his ideas. One by one. He wants it. You know, he's saying, Look,

you know, two scientists were an atheist, but we don't necessarily believe

The exact same thing is true Christians don't necessarily believe the same thing, per se, to Muslims don't necessarily exactly believe the same thing. So I understand that point of view, it makes sense. He's saying I'm agnostic, I understand why he's agnostic, because in science, you have to say that science is a is a is what we call an epistemology. It's in depth, it's based on inductive logic.

If I didn't see it, if I didn't think ultimately, ultimately, it starts with the senses, we have to see it, hear it, touch it, taste it, smell it. fundamentally speaking, science is based on inductive reasoning, then after that, we impose the deduction, okay? So they say, Look, don't assume anything, you have to have hypothesis, then an experiment. And then you make observations, there is a method to the way they produce facts, theories, facts, laws, there's a they have a system.

Now the system is not.

There's not one definition to the system. Things can be more scientific than other things, you know, there are degrees of how scientific something can be how much control they can have they, they have a system and in a system.

You try not to presuppose anything.

If you it's trying to be as objective as possible. objective meaning look, I'm not trying to put my personal beliefs into this conclusion, I have this idea. I'm trying to prove it to the world. And I'm trying to say, look, I'm taking my own personal biases out. The more you can remove personal bias and subjectivity from a scientific experiment, the more it's considered to be scientific.

So he's, he's, as a scientist, he has to remove his own personal ideas and beliefs from his conclusions. So I understand and his point of view, however,

philosophers when we ask what does science actually show us? What is science because for instance, if we ask, you know, what is architecture? Well, architecture is a science. It's the it's the art, it's called The Art of building structures. Okay, great. What's martial arts? Martial Arts is the art of defending yourself. Okay? What is science? Science ultimately boils down. When philosophers of science.

When we ask them, What is this animal you call science? What does it do for us? Well, it predicts patterns and regularities found in nature, whatever we believe that patterns and regularities of the past will occur again in the future. So they're not talking. They're there. Their job is not to talk about spirituality or God, they're not looking for God, science is not looking for God. That's why science doesn't tell us anything about God unless we go into the philosophy of science. Okay, now that's

what this science do. Science is trying to tell us.

Here are the patterns and regularities we find in nature. It's, it's moot to say it doesn't talk about God at all. It has nothing to do. You could be an atheist scientist, or you could be a serious believer in God and be signed, the scientific people conflate this all the time science is trying to tell us what medicines cure what ails

us. That's just the science of medicine, in every in every domain of science, science is trying to tell us.

These are the patterns and regularities we have in this domain. That's it. It doesn't talk about God doesn't talk about introspection, it doesn't talk about morality. In science, there is no morality, there is no, you know, there is no psychology. They're trying to remove psychology out of against psychology is a different science, but they're trying to remove any bias they can. So he's taking that approach of saying, Look, I'm not trying to be biased, therefore, I'm trying to be agnostic, I understand his point of view. But he must have a personal opinion. Now, if his opinion is look, I haven't figured out whether I believe in God or not. But that's fine.

But science won't tell us necessarily.

Because the thing is, look, do you believe that God is in the in the dunya? No, we don't believe God is a bearded man above the sky.

This is a very important point because many people are worried

about this, because many people go away from belief in the Creator of the heavens and earth because they think he's some old man with a beard in the heavens. There's a meme online that says it's a it's an astronaut up in there up in that in that space, and he's putting a sign up saying, I see no god up here. Well, nobody believes that there's a God up there, up there above the clouds with a beard and a staff you know, like, that's why Islam when you when you study Islam is especially Islam and Judaism. We tell you God is not in the dunya you can look under every rock you can look, go into the deepest ocean, you can go up in the highest if you're not going to God is not enough time and

space living in a little hut somewhere.

Nothing encompasses God, God is not part of the dunya it is a part of the flesh, the flesh of this world, so that you don't expect scientists to find God in their hydron collider, do you think? Do you think they are influenced because we're creatures of imitation? And now many of the peers and and I don't know if you've seen this

Documentary, expelled no intelligence allowed. Have you seen that ever? So really good documentary?

I might have seen highlights. I'm not familiar with it too much. But I've heard that term before. I think it's a Christian guy, right? I believe I believe so. Oh, yes. I've seen I've seen a few extract. I remember not yet really documented. Yes. It's called kids about design. Yes, really. It's a really good documentary. And at the end, you see that people who argue for a creator, they're pretty much ostracized, right? They're not given a platform, they're blacklisted. So do you think Neil Tyson now, if he starts to come out? And he argues that he's influenced by his surroundings by his peers, which institution that's pushing out, you know, God from the equation, even if now, they

found proof, they will suppress the proof most likely, that's how the system is set up? Well, here's the thing. I'm a nominalist. Okay, Muslims are nominalist. But they don't know it. Because that he was a nominalist. There's no doubt you know, if you ask any expert on anything and say, of course, he was a nominalist. They erect one God or the other. So we say God, they say nature. Let me explain. Okay. If I ask you a little taste of nominalism. Okay, we hear that a lot. Yes, nature, I tell them of nature doesn't exist. It's a mother. It's a god in your imagination. They'll say Mother Nature Meza. It's a God in their imagination and bring me a child, I'll make an official challenge

again.

Any scientists in the world? Bring me on to any podcasts of a civil discussion, and you prove to me that nature is an existing force in the universe? I'll be shocked. Please, I there's no way to prove it. I've searched the world. For a proof. I've searched 3000 years of philosophy for proof, there is no proof. And anybody want to take me up on this chance, please bring me on. And let's have a public civil discussion. And you prove to me that nature is actually a force out there. Okay. So if I asked you, if I asked you, Eddie, What is nature 100 scientists, if I say 100 times in nature, it's gonna be like, well, he's got to give me examples. He's gonna have to go to what we call particulars. He's

gonna say, look,

and this, by the way is in the Quran, okay. So

if people who read the Quran are gonna are going to be familiar with what I'm saying,

you're gonna have to tell me look at that plant over there, you see that flower? Well, that flower is going through a process we call natural and this force behind it, this natural force, you plant the seed, you bury it, you water it, you give it this much.

You give it these these circumstances as they start to flower and bloom. Over time, it's gonna reach this stage where it blooms.

And I'm asked, okay, so if I destroy every flower in the world, there's no more nature, they're gonna say, No, nature's also, that stream over there, you see that stream of nature is also the clouds in the air nature is also the sunshine nature is also the stars in the sky. Nature is also the planetary bodies, nature is also they're going to keep giving me all these particulars.

Now, when they say nature, when they say the word nature, they're making a collective claim a universal claim to all these objects. See, it's funny because Neil deGrasse, Tyson was saying, Look, I don't want to give you what ism or just I am, because you're going to make this collective claim about me.

You're going to think you know, everything of what I think you're gonna, you're gonna think you know, everything about me, I want you to come and dialogue with me, let me give you what I think bit by bit so you could truly understand me. It's kind of it's just a parallel here. When you say nature, you're talking about all these things out there, you're talking about the desert sands, you're talking about the, the rains, the the watercycle, you're talking about all these things, you're just when you say nature, you're calling, you're calling upon all these objects.

You're not truly calling upon a force. Why? Think about this again, this is what I want to challenge all. Everybody out there with.

First you saw the cycles.

have flowers blooming bleep planted.

And you flower blooms that drops it seed on the ground, and then the seed is buried again. And then it's blooms again. You first you saw that cycle, and then you called it then you added the label nature. You didn't start with the idea of nature and then go out in the world and discover flowers and water cycles and wind and planetary bodies. No, no, no, it was it's the opposite. The Universal is dependent on the particular

the universal nature is the universal, this force that you're appealing to. First you saw

all the particulars.

The watercycle

the wind, sunshine, photos, everything that we call nature. First you saw the particulars and then you added the label nature. Yes. And Islam is telling you don't add the label what came before the particulars. What came before these particulars? What caused these particulars? It's not what you label the particulars with later because the word nature

is a meaningless term it has. It's just a noise we make with our mouth to label to call upon all these particulars, not an easy point for people to understand, okay? It's I don't understand how, how difficult it is to understand because when I first studied philosophy, I came upon these ideas and they were difficult. It took me years to contemplate and think about it and try to understand, you know, I'm not trying to

tell you guys, it's easy stuff to understand, but there are no universals out there. There are no universals. In the way scientists present this when they say nature.

They're erecting another force out there another god, another deity, another something that we don't do me a favor, ask any scientists put nature in a test tube?

They can't. It's a concept. Nature is a concept.

We're asking you for particulars. Don't bring on your concepts. We don't want to hear about your concepts. You don't want to hear about our concept. We don't want to hear about your God. Just tell us what the what the experiments are. But tell us what tell us what's objective.

The word nature is a subjective term, it is not an objective term, it is never observed. It is never observed out there in the world.

It's a concept. It's an ideology, it's a philosophy we add on to what we've experienced, and it came after the fact. That's what's so important because don't forget, the Quran asks you to look into the world.

And notice the cycles.

But when you say nature, you're adding the label afterwards, when we say God, we're saying God was before the cycle, this force before the cycle.

Because if I took out every particular in nature, let's say remove all the planetary bodies, all the stars, all the the watercycle If I removed everything, you wouldn't know anything about nature, your your, your idea of God, your idea of this force, this God, this God, God, you called Nature depends on these particulars. We're saying, No, God came before the particulars. That's why we call him God, not nature. We say God is something else God is before the particulars. The particulars depend on God, not the other way around. Nature depends on our observation of particulars if we didn't observe those particulars, if we lived in a totally empty universe, we wouldn't say we wouldn't have came up

with the idea of this universal idea called nature.

You understand? Hence,

God is saying, Look, I'm before the particulars, the particulars depend on me, I brought them into existence. Nature could not bring anything to existence, because nature is a byproduct, this is very important. Nature is a byproduct of the particulars.

The particular things we observe in, in the world.

Nature is a byproduct, we the Quran is brilliant, and saying, Look, God is no byproduct of the imagination. God is before the particulars. The particular is dependent. Nobody, nobody says insights. All these particulars depend on nature. No, nature came after your idea of nature is a byproduct of the particulars. Let's go ahead and connect now we have the term atheist. And then we have the agnostic and now we got another brother, a good friend of yours. I don't know Well, I don't know if he's good friend of me, you know him. Definitely. And let's see if how is he being influenced somehow? Because it seems like well, let's just get into the clip. See what you think.

You and your beard my friend. Oh, I have beard envy what is well i Berto, now Muslim? What is the significance behind this this beard? I love it. No reason. Yeah, I wanted to grow it out kind of do like a troll. Thank you so much. How are you Joe Rogan? I'm good sir. How you doing? Oh man.

God is so good. After all the pressure, all the chaos? Everything that has happened in your life up to this moment? How good is it feel to be back to be victorious and to have that UFC gold around your waist right now? Hey, you know what? Without God, I am absolutely not going All glory be to God. Well, I heard him now Muslim. All right, so 100

So we got everything encapsulated. Once David hummed in lies praising the Creator of the heavens and earth as a term to Habib often uses after his fights, he's not pointing to himself, he's pointing up above to the greater heavens and earth. And he's saying that he's accepted Islam submission to the Creator, not the creation and I'm probably maybe just being facetious. What are your thoughts on that when you see that but then but just one thing you have so you have now someone from you know, atheism agnostic to someone like John Joseph was a believer, obviously the Creator of the heavens and earth. Yeah, John. John is definitely a believer. I know he comes from a Christian family I know

his father's a pastor I'm not sure if it's pastor reverend. I'm not sure what level he's at or which one which domini denomination he is.

You know, I trained with John many years ago, so we've lost touch over time. I saw him recently.

Was it the summer I saw him this summer.

Or the spring I saw him and you know, I only see the positive side of it like what I meet John, I've always seen

He's always he's always been good to me. And I've never seen him do anything bad. And I know he's done many bad things. He's not, you know, he's a, he's had many troubles in the media, let's say.

But when he's when I interact with him, and with the years we're trading together, he's never shown me that side, you know? So he's saying, Alhamdulillah is he studying Islam? I have no idea. I've lost touch with him. I haven't talked to him. I haven't had a deep discussion with him. And many, many years.

Now, when I see him, we just shake hands, hug, say hello, I don't know what's going on in his personal life. But he's been in the media for for, he's had some trouble in the media, in the past and very recently, so I really don't know what's going on with him.

to that level, but it seems like so you have people now that are suppressing the fitrah, you talk about, you know, you made a statement, which i i would say I agree with, you know, this is something that there is truly, there is no such thing as atheism, or

no such thing as atheist. Can you click? Can you look, can you can you elucidate on that? Yeah. Because, you know, they tell me, look, they don't believe in my God, I believe, I don't believe in atheism. I don't believe in nature, literally. Because I believe when they appeal to nature, you know, they say, Oh, well, you know, Darwin proved that. It's all nature.

Its nature. What do you mean, evolution is just nature nature, if you cross examine it is just an idea. It's a concept. That is, it's superimposed on particulars. It's a universal, as we say, in philosophy. So for instance, they say they say that, a classic example, Neil deGrasse Tyson, I remember watching his documentary, I want to use his example so that it's nice and neat. And, and I paraphrase his point, he says, Look, polar bears were, let's say, assuming bears were brown or black. And then one day, one bear had a genetic error, genetic mutation. They classified as an error. But through a blind process,

he became white, and he gave him an advantage for hunting and snow. Therefore, he excelled in hunting and snow he passed on his genetics. Now polar bears exist polar bears had a genetic mutation and error, they say,

an error. And that error led to white polar bears. I'm paraphrasing, I'm putting in a nutshell it's there's many more details to it, but they're saying, look, there was an error. The thing is an error. The word error is a human narrative.

It's a human narrative, a blind process cannot make an error.

The difference is not what we're seeing what we all admit to the same facts. It could very well be that polar bears used to be brown, and there was a genetic mutation. And certain polar certain bears became white and had an advantage. I had an advantage in hunting in this in Arctic areas, snowy, snowy areas, and therefore they they propagated their genes, and now you have polar bears. It could very well be, however, your story that it's an error, that I don't have to accept that's that's subjective. That's your narrative. It's not found in the data. It's not found in the observation. I'm saying that God mutated that, that that DNA that was on purpose, that was God's plan, God is the

selector God, God chose some bears to survive and some bears to die. Some bears had mutations that were not, we're not helpful for them in their environment, and some had advantages. You know, the Quran calls God the selector.

It doesn't go against the Quran. It doesn't go against what we believe it's the narrative. You're superimposing a narrative, and they don't realize it. Where is this narrative observed in nature, it's never observed in nature. It's observed in your own mind. Anybody who studies Kant knows that the reason why you call it

an error is because of your own paradigm.

Now paradigm, if you could think about it is imagine you're wearing rose tinted rose tinted glasses, you would see the world as tinted rose. If you had blue tinted glasses, you would see the world as blue. Your paradigm is how you filter out information, the narrative you superimposed. So that's why we ask, what are the hard facts, keep your narratives to yourself? Now, I can add to a different narrative that I can add a different narrative to the same body of facts. It doesn't make me illogical.

I'm not denying the facts. So Muslims should never deny the facts. But we don't have to accept that their narratives narratives change over time. And some narratives are weeded out and some narratives are strengthened over time, to say, to say that it's a genetic error

is actually likely logically inconsistent with the term blind process because blind process has no intention. It's to say that nature had an intention again, directing this God, do you think that nature has this direction? If nature is truly a blank, blank process, there are no errors? Again, they're always they're always admitting secretly, that there's an intention in the universe.

By saying there's an error. It's amazing because in Darwinism, they say, there's this random mutation. Again, random, this I've talked about in the past. It's just another god direct. It's just more narrative. It's not fun. randomness is never found in nature ever, ever. And it's hilarious because

science and mathematics tell us that the world is determined.

In determinism there are there is no random events. They can have it both ways actually contradict themselves at a philosophical level. That's why Einstein famously said, God doesn't play dice with the universe, the universe is

perfectly determined. The universe is perfectly determined. There are no random events, so to say for a biologist says, look, there's this random event, he's using that as an expression because if he means that literally he's saying something that goes against Newtonian physics, like he's violating Newtonian physics here, we can't have biology. We can't put biology over Newtonian physics, Newtonian physics is more certain. Now, there are levels of logic, there are levels of facts, okay.

All facts are not created equal. A mathematical fact cannot be likened to an inductive fact.

Mathematics is more certain than inductive facts there are there's a hierarchy of facts. A historical fact is not to is not asserted as a mathematical fact. A historical fact is not as certain as a inductive, a scientific fact, there are levels of facts. Okay, if you study epistemology, that's what if the symbology is, you know, how do we know something? How did you? How did you get to this conclusion? What type of logic did used are different types of logic? Most people out there in the world cannot tell you the difference between deductive logic and inductive logic, something that's very basic in epistemology. That's epistemology one on one, if you cannot

tell if you cannot tell the difference between inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning, you shouldn't have an opinion on what I just said. You should not if you're not a professional, you should have opinion on this. Inductive facts and deductive facts and historical facts and intuitive facts are different things.

Scientists are giving us sometimes their personal outlook in life and they don't realize it. That's why I want to weed it out. Just give me the science. I want to make your your conclusions even more pure. So for instance, that gentleman at the beginning, his name was Steve, what was it again? Fries is deep fried. He's saying, Look, I see evil in the world.

That's his own subjective view. Okay, fine. You're calling this evil. I'm telling you Look, I'm telling you Look, I have the same internal experience when I see somebody murdered, have the same inner feeling it's wrong. However, I don't have the same narrative as you that that person will never see justice, that death is the ultimate end. That's your own personal outlook in life. Don't superimpose it on me. Don't put your way of seeing the world on me. I don't put my way of seeing the world on you. Let's have a dialogue

and exchanged point of views. You see it as the ultimate end. I personally don't think Adolf Hitler escaped

the evils of what he did by killing himself.

I think Adolf Hitler right now is being tormented and he's paying. He's paying for all the evils he did. That's the narrative I live with. Now, if you think Adolf Hitler lived a luxurious life, he lived in the lap of luxury for many years. He was Europe's most powerful man. He went down.

You know, you know, his last years in life. You know, he was peppered he was the king of Europe. Yeah. For many years. He like I mean, he lives in the lap of luxury. If you think he killed all those human beings, they got away with it.

You're tormenting yourself with that belief. You walk around and you see the world as nihilistic evil. That gentlemen, Stephen Fry.

He's choosing unknowingly, unknowingly he's choosing nihilism. He sees the world when he dies, when he's close to death, the life is going to become more and more unbearable for him. Look in philosophy we have the we have this thing we call nihilism and atheism only leads to there there are no other roads there are two possible roads. The fit that up the natural religion, that we're in born, we're born with this something within us. And there's more to this experience that we're living right now. Or nihilism. There are no there are no other options. Anybody out there who has a third option, I dare you to bring it to me. I dare you. Please. I'm asking you to bring it. There

are only two options that man Stephen Fry, he is unknowingly picking nihilism, he will suffer exponentially over the years in his own mind, because every day, the better his life is. I know he's maybe a famous actor he's rich. The more difficult is going to be to leave this world because in his mind, it's the ultimate end. In his mind, the more beautiful his life is right now, the harder it is to get to be part

people

suffer, he's gonna envy that child with cancer when they he's gonna be like, You know what, that child never tasted these luxuries I did. And then it was ripped away from Him for eternity. He died at a young age I and as he gets older, he's gonna want to envy that he's gonna envies him. Like, you know what, I wish I never tasted these pleasures in life. I wish I never saw the beauty. Because being having it ripped out of my head was so painful

that I'm paying the debt for all this enjoyment. I had all the beauty I saw there's a debt at the end, when I exit there's a debt. Why? Because this narrative I live with is that the debt is eternal lights out.

eternal separation, that's what they believe. So there's gonna be a time where he's gonna have a mind shift, he's gonna have a paradigm shift where he's gonna be like, Hey, I see the wisdom now and dying very young. I know it sounds morbid.

I know, it sounds weird. But that's because you're in a certain stage in your life right now, if you can

try to have

some introspection of how certain other people's lives may be at a certain time at a certain time. You can have a paradigm shift. Like for instance, in the Quran, it says, When God sends them on stormy seas, all of a sudden, they get on their knees. Now they're now they have they, they're in touch with the fitted out why? Because they're seeing the ultimate end. And they're like, hey, there's something beyond. There's something more This can't be it. I see. Absurdism, early on in this conversation talked about Absurdism

that we're born with this inner yearning for something more. And we human beings have a unique capability. Human beings have a unique capability, that we're touched with the idea that the capability to visualize living forever. Yeah, human beings live. In our minds. We live in the past. We live in the future, and we live in the present, we have this ability

to think of the future, remember the past, all while living in the present, no animal can do this. And we have this yearning to live forever. That's put within us. We have this yearning within us. They're saying, Look, I'm in touch with this yearning. Now. I've seen it clearly all my personalities, all the experience I've had in life

in a second, because in a second, you have an eternity of wisdom, flash before your eyes, and all of a sudden you believe in God, that yet when God hears your prayers, and he comes the winds, and he brings you back to the shore, and you think, Oh, we lost our mind for a second, God is telling you Look, think about when you have these paradigm shifts, your FitClub your fitrah your your natural religion, the natural religion you are born with, becomes glaringly obvious to you becomes glaringly obvious,

and no logical argument can supersede that no scientific experiment can supersede that. It's so it this is what we call it intuitive fact, you know it firsthand.

So I'm telling you, these gentlemen, when they're saying they're atheists, it's comfortable and popular to say it now. But when they're on their deathbed, we'll see their death, their time on their deathbed will seem like an eternity. Wow, that is really that's that's really, really deep for someone who ruminates over that what you're saying. And I started the show, I mean, we're going to get into some really powerful stuff and lightning, and what you're saying basically, at the end of the day, it's going from meaningless to meaningful and it doesn't make sense to just live a meaningless life. Going back to I've just a few more questions before we conclude, I want to get

these in. And they're going to be based around some of these videos I'm going to show you, but just to touch back upon the

chat. Is he still champ? The John Jones? He still does he still does UFC champ.

I think they stripped him. Yeah, no, they stripped him from his title. Yeah, so he hasn't fought in a while, I believe. I mean, no, no, he's not he's not champion. I

do. But he was he. He's not retired, but they stripped him of his title. He's been inactive. I want to give just one example. How do you think if he had more of a structure just like you have in training camp, you have structure as you go to a training camp and you don't have some structure? You know, no discipline like how to go ahead and what to do from A to Z. I mean, it's not going to make for you know, a good routine and and at the end of day two a good chance to become a good champion. But same thing in life how Islam gives you structure. So do you think from one of the things for instance, because a lot of the mishaps and really feel sorry and bad for for John Jones

want the best for him. And when you see a lot of the mishaps have been around alcohol. And you talk you talk about how Islam is saved. Just Just one example you can give, you know, so many but just babies you know, saving Islam saving babies from from being born with alcohol syndrome, which affects 4040 to 50,000 children born in this country a year, but just if, if John Jones was able to have that structure that Islam gives him, right, and just one of the prohibitions is alcohol. You know what I mean? What do you think how that would affect his life and enhance him as a human being?

I would say it benefits 99% of the population to not touch drugs or alcohol. In my personal opinion.

I think alcohol is one of the most unhealthy things both physically and mentally.

It's a curse on the world. In my opinion, if you look at the history of alcohol, it's been a curse on the world.

I rather be I hate I dread to be in a room with drunk people.

They're become inhibited and vilest it. And I think John John Jones's life could have been much better if he had that paradigm. If he was completely disassociated from enjoying alcohol or drugs in any way. He could had a much more

successful personal life, let's call it but again, I don't want to judge anybody. I don't want to say that. I don't want to single out John Jones, I think I should rather say it in general, let me let me take it back. In general, most people will have a more successful personal life and in terms of health, for your liver, etc. If they never came across alcohol or drugs, because it's a dependency, it's a social lubricant, right? People do it because they feel awkward. They feel nobody tastes alcohol and thinks it's delicious, in my opinion, the most disgusting, vile, at least in my personal opinion, it's the most disgusting and vile substance you can taste, you know, if somebody

tasted that, I don't know how they could keep drinking it. And it's, but people do it because it makes them more sociable, they have the courage, now they have this liquid courage to act and approach people. That's what it allows them to connect. They're connecting around alcoholics, it's a social

stimulus.

But you can have that you can connect as human beings and other ways that are far better, far superior. And, you know, anybody familiar with the history of alcohol knows what a curse, I can tell you that I think even alcohol might be worse than hard drugs for what it's done to the world. You know, it was a curse on humanity.

When you study the history, this just amazed me the story when you look at when people because obviously the prohibitions that just come in Islam and say do's and don'ts, but you know, first, you know, the beginning was get to know your Creator. And then when you know your credit, you love your Creator, and then you trust Him that He knows what's best for you. And then, you know, the Companions, disciples of Prophet Muhammad, when the injunction came down, you know, to prohibit alcohol, because it came in stages, they had so much of a love and connection to their Creator, the one and only created the heavens, the earth, and love for the hereafter for Paradise, that at the

end, at the end, they were just, you know, spitting it out of their mouth, they swallow it with throwing it up, they say the city, the city's was, was filled with the alcohol on the streets, you know, so I just think about that I'm like, amazed, you know, with with someone like him or others, you know, there's truly such a great benefit. And one of the thing that you mentioned, if you can just Claire, and I'll go to the next point, how Because oftentimes, when people hear Islam, they think it's a new religion, it's something that just came with Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and all the prophets, but you talk about Islam came from the beginning, the conscious concept of

submitting your will to the one and only created the heavens and earth. And it's not based around a history, just like you had the JFK assassination. People are still trying to figure it out, you know, let alone trying to figure out, you know, what happened back to three years ago? Yeah, let's let's talk about the hierarchy of facts. Okay. The number one, most certain type of fact is we call philosophy intuitive facts. If I have a headache, I know it, even though scientists cannot prove that I have a headache. They can. They can put all sorts of electrodes on me, they can scan my brain they can. I might be having a headache, and they can't detect it. But they believe me, I have a

headache because they've had headaches in the past.

You know, you have a headache, even if your IQ is you don't have to be a logician to know you have a headache. You know, you have a headache. It's immediate. Then you we have logical facts such as, you know, mathematical facts, deductive facts, at that the facts, one plus one equals two. That's an analytical fact is true by definition.

It's certain, it's it has a high level of certainty.

Then we have inductive facts. Something is hot or cold. Something is tall or short, we can measure how long a football field is. Okay, we're going out there in the world. And we're using instruments and we're measuring the world we're using inductive

logic to see, you know, how heavy is a rock, how heavy how dense is this material? These are things we do by experiment. And then after that, even lower is historical facts, historical facts are the most dubious

because many things happened in history.

Historians reported they contradict each other, they're completely wrong. One of them has to be wrong. One of them could be they could both be wrong, or one of them is is wrong at least. There are many dubious facts in history such as the assassination of JFK. We're not we're still not sure how JFK

Like,

we're still not sure exactly. If there was two shots, three shots. There are many competing theories. We have cameras, we have eye witnesses, we have the top minds in the world trying to figure out what happened exactly to JFK.

We still don't we still don't know. What's the demand with the umbrella that shot up on the grassy knoll, we don't know, we still we started competing theories, conspiracies was that, you know, they found a bullet next to his body when he was in the hospital, it was that bullet put there afterwards, etc, they have so many competing theories, they cannot be certain. And that's what primary source materials. Now, a primary source material is, for instance, the footage of JFK being shot. A secondary source material is somebody who heard a story from somebody who was there, that person wasn't there. But he heard a story of somebody who he claims he talked to was there, that's a

secondary source material. So there are degrees of even house how certain historical fact can be.

So what does Islam base our religion on? It bases our religion on the first category, intuitive facts. The fifth era, the natural born religion is within everybody is born on the fifth. We don't want to confuse Islam per se with the fifth.

Because you could have never heard of Muhammad Ali Salaam and the Quran, and be upon the fitrah. For anybody who disagrees with that. Read the Quran. What does it say? It says it says tell the Christians and the Jews that Abraham was on the right path before the scriptures.

Abraham was on the right path before the scriptures why Abraham was upon the fitrah he was already upon the natural religion. Adam Alayhis Salam was already upon the fitrah being meaning we are born with a religion How do you know this religion? I know the same way I know I have a headache.

I know the same way I know I have a headache. The Quran tells you look, you didn't always exist. How did you come into this world? You're gonna come into this the next world exactly like you came into this world. Forget all your logicians and scientists and all that they can never understand. Existence existence is superior. It's greater than any Neil deGrasse Tyson can wrap his mind around. I used to be non existent, and I exist now the same way I came into this world, I'll come into the next. And that, for me is a very comforting narrative. I don't see a child when he dies. I don't see it as the ultimate end. I see it the same way he came into this world, he'll come into the next one.

How I don't know. I just trust in God. Look how he created the dunya. I always like to tell people imagine, think of this thought experiment. Imagine we had all the knowledge we have today. And somehow we were observing existence. We're just purely logical minds. We're outside of existence. We're just observing existence. Before the event of life. We're just seeing the planetary bodies form we're seeing we're seeing physics and chemistry and action.

We're seeing the big bang, we're seeing the universe develop. And one of us says look 111 day there will be life. Billions of years from now there's going to be this thing called life.

We have we could have never guessed that by watching the development of the universe. A cold dead universe would be in a hot state by then. But you know what I mean? I mean, cold, figuratively. There's no life. There's no love. There's no warmth, there's no compassion. It's just building blocks and chemistry. We can never imagine this leap from a cold dead universe, figuratively speaking to a universe where there's contemplation, friendship, love.

The desire to connect with a higher

being.

We could never make that logical leap. There's nothing to bring us to that to make that leap. Yet it does. It did exist. It did happen. Love, compassion, friendship exists in this world, things that are outside of chemistry, and physics. And we know these things. Certainly we know them firsthand. That's why when that gentleman is saying, when that gentleman Stephen Fry's saying, I see evil in the world, he's admitting he's admitting already to the fitrah. Because there is no evil or good in the world.

Without first admitting there's a God, because only God can make something good or evil. You cannot have good or evil. That's why Hume was telling you Look, if we're gonna say we're atheists, we can't say ought. We can't say the world ought to be a certain way. We have to say the world is that way. That kid died. He's just chemistry and physics and leave it at that don't admit to seeing evil or good in the world. Because once you admit to seeing that things ought to be a certain way you're saying that the summum bonum is true. You're saying that there's there is a God, there's good and evil, there's more to the world than chemistry, chemistry and physics. You're admitting it, you're

taking a self defeating position. So for me, I don't believe that they're atheists. When they say nature. They don't know that they're using an expression Do you think

thinks they're referring to something that's literal, literally out there in the world. When I say the word nature, I'm using an expression to refer to a collective of things. I'm a nominalist, I challenge anybody out there.

I challenge anybody in the world, but only have three criteria three. And to come here and tell me that nominalism is incorrect. My number one criteria is that you understand

the difference between inductive and deductive logic. Number two, you understand the problem of causation. And number three, you have a definition of truth, because philosophers don't agree on the definition of truth.

Meet these three criteria. And let's have a discussion of civil discussion, public public one, you come here you tell me that nature is something out there in the world, you come here and you tell me that randomness is something a physic literally out there in the world, it's incorrect. randomness is part of your imagination.

Nature is part of the imagination, it's a projection of the mind, it's a projection of the mind, if anybody's studied Immanuel Kant, he would know this. It's a projection of the mind, it's something you superimpose upon the world, for the world to make sense to you.

Now I have I have a thought experiment that kind of illustrates that, but it's pretty long, and it's complicated. But in the end, ultimately speaking, ultimately speaking, for circling back to Stephen fries point, he's admitting the world ought to be a certain way. So he's admitting there's good and evil in the world, and there cannot be good and evil.

Without God.

I want to get a couple of just couple more before we conclude videos, and this is this was very nice to see want to get your reaction to this from our, from our friend, Mr. Jones, back in history, I see these sort of cycles of eras of reason and faith, eras of reason and faith, like the faith, you know, Dark Ages, then the enlightenment, then you know, it goes dark again, like, you know, the Arab world was flourishing that created, you know, algebra was named after al Jabbar and that kind of, and then, you know, Islam came and kind of went to an era of faith and it kind of slowed thing. Well, Islam originally was the scientists. I mean, they were the if you look at the, the earliest

logic world, they were the ones that were the most advanced at one point in history. They were the ones that were pushing mathematics and science and reason logic. You know, it's just it comes in cycles, man, it comes in cycles of suppression and dominance. And, you know, the, the real concern is unstoppable dictatorships like China and Russia and then the when, when there's no dissent and no discussion. And this is what we have to realize. It really is. It's a it's an odd thing, because I think there's there's genuine beauty in most religions, like you can you can learn a lot about human beings and the sort of the way they they use ethics and morals in their life and what they've

learned from their religion. Yeah, you know, when you watch the Muslims gather around Mecca. Yeah, go Raj. You don't think there's something kind of beautiful about that amazing about that they all peacefully get there, they all dress the same, and they all like move around this thing and show respect. Obviously, it's doing something for them. It has this profound effect on yeah, I've got a lot of friends who are Arabs, I spent a lot of times in Middle East. I love them. They're awesome. There are some factions that say we got to go blow ourselves up. And that's obviously factions of Christianity that I like to to write that 100% Absolutely in America. Right. And I guarantee

Absolutely, we're being invaded and attacked by Muslims all the time. It probably be some radical fundamentalist Christians that would want to do the same thing. Right, that some some Muslim sects have done. Yeah. So they're getting into the

there's good and bad that come from religion, when it's used by people to keep themselves in power and repress other people. That's really bad. Yeah. And when it's used to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yeah, that's really good. You know, don't lie cheaters, you know, don't kill other people don't steal, those are good. Those are good ways to run society. That was really nice to see. I don't know, if you got a chance to see that, you know, it was kind of a turn for the for the better. What do you think? I love the fact that they're so open minded, you know, they finally start to differentiate between different types of Muslims. You know, the Muslims that are creating

all the chaos are such a small fraction that less than 1%. They get all the attention. And a lot of personalities out there like to exploit that to try to create fear and pump their books and make millions off it. Recently, Muhammad hijab had a dialogue with Jordan Peterson, which I loved. I find that those two individuals did something so great in one podcast. They said, look, let's not let's be honest here. There were two individuals trying to be honest and have a civil discussion. They didn't seem to be trying to push a book or an agenda or ideology

Look, let's have a civil discussion and I found it's so amazing. And so honestly precious that Jordan Peterson walked back his comments about Muhammad Ali salaam being a warlord. And that that's such a great discussion. It's an absurdity to say Muhammad Ali Salam is a warlord. It's an absurdity to say

the conquest of Mecca.

The conquest of Mecca is pure 100% proof that Islam is a peaceful religion who knows the Quran better than Muhammad Ali salaam asked you it who knows it better than him? Who? Who can interpret it better than him? Is there a single human being in history? Is there no he had the Quran at the time he conquered his enemies, his enemies were his footstool, and he let them all not only live but thrive.

And he let them all be in peace. So today is a day of mercy. He conquered them without the sword without the sword. You name me one other human being. Don't you dare interpret the Quran? Don't you dare in particular the Quran any other way than the way Muhammad Ali salaam did. He conquered Mecca.

After a broken treaty, people have to know that the Prophet alayhi salam was living in peace with the pagans. They were sharing they were doing a timeshare of Mecca at that time. So the pagans broke the contract. And this is bedrock history. It's embedded in the Quran. The Quran is telling you Look, they broke the treaty. This is why I'm giving you this special permission. It can be a lie because the Muslims would have been like, how could the Quran say they broke the shooting when they didn't? The Muslims were living the Quran live at that time.

They witnessed the broken treaty, the Quran came down and said, look, the treaty has been broken, this cannot be alive because the Muslims would have been shocked that there was an event that broke I don't want to go into much detail but they broke the covenant that they had together. And Mohammed using the correct interpretation of the Quran. The correct interpretation, the only interpretation we have there is no interpretation outside no interpretation could supersede the interpretation of Muhammad Ali sunnah. Would you take interpretation of any other scholar other than a Muhammad Ali Salam, the prophet of God? Would you take any other interpretation? No. How did he interpret all the

verses of the Quran together?

The accumulation of the Quran 99% of it was already revealed at this point. What did he How did he practice the Quran, the Quran, he conquered his enemies without a weapon being drawn.

He conquered them peacefully he let them keep their goal he let them keep their riches, their property. He allowed them to leave or stay. He allowed them to leave or state. No other human being in history did this except for our morbid kata, a follower of Mohammed and Saudi when they conquered Jerusalem, they did the same thing. Why is the sun it's how they interpret the Quran. They even made a Hollywood movie. What was it the kingdom of heaven? Yes, yes. Don't you dare interpret the Quran for us? You know, so many personalities. I don't even say the name they say look, this is how the Quran this is what the Quran says. Look what the scholar said. Don't you dare interpret the Quran

higher. Outside of what Mohammed? Don't you dare? Don't you dare. Muhammad only expensive war and his he ever had was the conquest of Mecca. He went from Medina to Mecca, he expanded from Medina to Mecca only because a treaty was broken. If they never broke that treaty, the pagans would be there till today. Today, they would be there.

Nobody should ever took the crown outside of Prophet Muhammad actions. He had the entirety of the Quran at that time, or let's say 99% of it.

Let's call it 98%. And he practiced the Quran. Nobody should ever dare to reinterpret it differently than what he did. Now. With what Joe Rogan said he's correct. It is beautiful to see all the Muslims praying together, there's a harmony instead of gathering around alcohol. Mm hmm. We are gathering Oh, God. Yes, that is our social lubricant. That is what brings us together we have a system now look, if you want to be if you want to be in the West, and you want to socialize, what you got to go to a club. Well guess what the number one thing that keeps the club funded is alcohol, you have to drink if you don't drink and a part of the party, what you don't want to hang out with is you want

to socialize with it. We have a different focal point. And when Muslims when Muslims make sujood, when they when they put their forehead on the floor, they're saying the significance of that is that look, I know God is true, I submit my will to God, I submitted my intellect that's when the brain the intellect is lower than the heart. Because as he says to us, the heart not that lump of flesh in your chest. But that inner experience you have that inner point point of awareness you have

when you lower your head and put your head on the floor, you're putting your intellect lower than that than the heart, the heart, you know, Allah directly. You know, God by the fitrah. You were touched by the sign of God when you were born. Now I always tell people think about before you were you were released.

into this world, you know, you were when you were in your mother's womb, you didn't know your name.

You didn't know the dunya, you didn't know about the world around you, you didn't know about

eating, drinking, sleeping, you didn't know about the cycles of that you didn't know anything, all you had was perfect unity in existence. all you had was this fitter that you live, that you dwelled within you are aware of this fitrah. You're incubated in the fitrah then you are released in this world. And now there's a million 1000 There's a trillion competing theories such as nature, randomness, etc. These things I didn't know them, I knew something way before them. All these things are encompassed within my experience of awareness. I had awareness first and then these things are embedded in awareness, they cannot be greater than my awareness. And what it was I aware of this one

unity, this unbroken Unity, we all know God before we entered this world, we all experienced God before we entered this world. This isn't the Quran, the Quran asks you. The Quran tells you before you entered this world, you all gave me the Shahada. Y'all said, our God, you are one you are one God.

Now you can take this literally or figuratively, nonetheless, the Quran is telling you you knew about God before you entered this world. So when you go to Mecca, and you do sujood, you're returning back to this oneness, you know, and the Bible in the Bible, the Gospel it says, they say that Jesus is claiming they claim that Jesus said,

You won't enter the kingdom of heaven till you're be born again.

Now, Christians have many beliefs on what this means. I think it's telling you go back to the fitrah. When you were born, you had a religion already, before anybody told you about it. Abraham was upon the truth before he the scriptures, we have this inner

religion that we're born with. That's why when you're born into this world, you're looking to connect, that's where Absurdism remember, we talked about Absurdism early on before, it would be absurd for us to be born with a religion.

And there not be a god. It's absurd to think about it, I'm using the term religion loosely, the more accurate term would be the fifth. It would be absurd to be born with this idea that you want to connect back to this oneness that you first came from this eternal oneness. And there's a lot to be said about what it means. What is oneness mean, we could talk about this as well, if you have the time maybe because oneness.

The Quran is secretly telling you something that you already know, over and over again, over and over again. That's why people look you can give them all the logical arguments you want in the world. They always end up saying, Look, you know, what makes sense to me God is one that's it, the Quran is telling you Look, the message is the message is going to be protected.

Right, I love Laila. You know what the Quran his message is very simple.

Oneness is so glaringly obvious.

You can never pervert it. It's impossible. And I'll try to I'll try to make it more clear why? Because I think we all know it secretly. It's just hard to verbalize. It is very difficult to verbalize, but it's known. It's not believed it's known.

You know, if you ask, if you ask 100 Christian experts? Who is God? That's a very complicated answer.

It's a very complicated answer. Even those who believe in the Trinity have a different variation of Trinity, even it's a very complex answer.

You try to hand down a complex answer over years.

The first few 100 years, they don't, none of the founding fathers would agree with what we have today. They none of them uttered these kinds of ideas, they mature over time. It's a very complex answer. If you ask the Jews or the Muslims.

What is God going to take? God is one that's it's simple. It's simple, man. We didn't we don't have we don't have a variety of answers. And we don't need a variety of answers. Just one. Just one it this is very, very powerful. I'm going to try to explain why but I'm trying to explain a very invested difficult idea.

You know, Aristotle told us look, all knives have something in common. Okay. It's a classic example of talked about in the past, all knives have something in common. If I show you a plastic knife, Edie, you're going to say, look, that plastic knife has something in common with a metal knife, yes or no. If you're referring to it as a knife,

then it has the essence of knife. If I change the essence, I changed the thing. If I change its essence,

I've changed this thing. If I think that plastic knife Eddie and I melted down. And I transition, I reform it into a fork, you're going to say look, that's no longer a knife. It no longer shares that one thing with that metal knife over there. It doesn't have that thing in common with it anymore. Therefore it is no longer a knife. If I changed the essence of something, Edie, I've changed that thing. It's no longer that thing.

Now when we when philosophers asked me

What's the essence of human beings? It's a very complex answer.

Human beings are part physicality. And we're part concept. Part A part of us is a concept. So for instance, a knife. I look at this, I look at this pen here, it's part material substance. Okay, it's part material. But it's also part concept because a pencil, it's a tool to write part of the essence of a pencil. And the essence of a knife is that it cuts part of the essence. And a pencil has to write if this thing doesn't write any more, I would say it's a broken pencil. If I melted down and turn it into a, I don't know, a paperweight. You can see, look, it's no longer a pencil, it doesn't write function is not to write no more. It doesn't do that. It's changed. It has changed. It is no

longer a pencil, you've changed its essence.

A pencil. Aristotle told us look, it's concrete, this material, but also you have to put a concept on it has to be a thing that's intended to write. And that's a concept. Cutting is a concept you can't put cutting in a test tube cutting is something that's held in the mind. It's a concept.

Nature, like we talked earlier is a concept you have to you have to say look, flowers, grass, rain cycle, wind cycle,

airflow, but monitor, planetary bodies, these are particular things. Add this concept to it there you have nature, nature is part material. And part concept. It's it's compounded idea. It's two pieces you put together.

Human beings are part physicality part concept. I'll give you a very classic example, then we'll move on. Okay, I'll give you a classic example. There's something called the Ship of Theseus. Very important. For anybody out there hoping to study philosophy, you have to know the Ship of Theseus thesis has a ship.

It has 99 parts every day, one part is worn out, and he has to change that part.

After 30 days, he's changed 30 parts everyday, he's going out sailing on that ship. Every day he comes back, he has to change a new part. After 99 days, Eddie, that ship has been completely changed. The original parts are completely gone. It's all new parts. And that ship is still sailing back and forth. And everybody's referring to it as the Ship of Theseus.

And then all those old 99 parts, I put them in a warehouse somewhere. And one day I put them back together. And I have two ships of Theseus and ask you which one is the original ship? You'll be like? Well, the new one is the one we've been sailing on. It has the history of the Ship of Theseus, but the old one, the one you just made put together has the original parts. And you're like, well, it could be either way. They they kind of they're kind of both the Ship of Theseus. And you'd be correct in a way because the ship of thesis is a concept.

It's a material substance out there in the world sailing on the water. But it's also a concept. There's a dualism here. There's material and there's concept.

Now what if I told you, Eddie,

if I told you look, there's only one pen pen, there's only one because when I tell you pen, remember, you're trying to connect this concept to them. Because there's so many pens in the world. You have to say, look, they all have one thing in common they all right.

That becomes the essence of pen.

But what if I told you any? No, no, no, no, no.

There's only one pen in the entire universe. And there's never going to be another pen. And there's always been this one pen and this pen is unchanging.

Now, if a pen

there's many if there's many,

and it's a changing thing, a pen could be sharpened. That's a pen can get old pen can break, it changes, it goes through cycles.

Now I'm attaching a concept to it. It's no longer just a thing literally up there. If I told you, Eddie, how much does a pen Wait, we're gonna be like, Look, pens vary in weight.

If I told you, Eddie, what?

What color is a pen? Well, pens come in different colors, you would have to say, look, you'd have to tell me, if you'd look, there's pens out there in the world, but you have to be flexible. There's concepts that super that come along with pens. Okay, it's not objective anymore. A pen is a subjective thing. This is a very key point. A pen is not a subjective elements in the world. A pen could be black, white, green, heavy, short, tall, sharpen, not sharpen. It comes in a variety of ways. However, if there was only one pen, one.

This is the key point though. And this pen doesn't change. It never changes. And I'm telling you it will never change it has never changed. It has always existed. This is a divine pen. It's a divine pen. You understand what I mean? When I say divine, it will never change it will never erode it will never need sharpening. Then when I asked you about this pen, now your answers can finally become objective. They can finally become true.

Because anything I say of pens as a collective is subjective. However, if a pen is singular and divine, then it is objectively true. The Quran

is telling you that God is one, unchanging never will change, eternal. This is the correct definition of God, God could be no other way. That is the definition of a literal God. It is telling you that God Quran is telling you that God is literal, it is not a concept in your mind, like nature, nature is a concept in your mind. Because when I ask you about nature, to teach me about nature, you have to point if I was teaching a child about nature, I would have to point to the, the the flowers in the grass, I would have to point to the clouds in the sky, I would have to point to particulars. That's why Islam we're not saying God is a particular you're going to point to a old

man above the sky.

The cuts are our belief in God is not conceptual. It is literal, your belief in nature and randomness, etc. You always have to point to particulars. God doesn't God's existence does not depend on particulars. God is literally true.

God is literally out there. That's why when you say

nature, you're appealing to a force that depends on particulars and your paradigm and your imagination. We're saying, God doesn't depend on an imagination when all minds are dead. When all human beings die, God was still exist. This is what the Quran says, when all have perish, there will remain the face of God, God is telling you

he is literally true and that is the correct definition of God. That is the only that is the that is the self evident

definition of God the Quran gets it perfectly correct.

Much respect for what you were saying earlier, just couple more questions. And

I just want to get in much respect for like you said earlier, Jordan Peterson, I think this could be a great catalyst for others to open up their platforms and instead of talking about Muslims talk with Muslims. Really nice to see a Joe Rogan also, you know, watching the Kaaba and the Muslims going around, you know, practicing that pure monotheism so inshallah this can be a turn for the better now just in concluding, because consciousness and then you have the soul and then how would you answer this question? For somebody who has been, you have one individual just kind of just went viral and we can avoid this, but a lot of times our youth, you know, they end up gravitating

sometimes towards these things, they inquisitive, they're looking, you know, but then you see, the whole world opens up to individuals like this. But then you see, the anxiety is through the roof. Like, for instance, in this case, so, so, about a week, not today, but about a week ago.

I sold my soul

as I was saying,

and ever since I sold my soul, I haven't been happy ever since. You know, I'm saying I'm

a yo man.

You got to believe me anyway, this is like, I'm not even capping it because listen, I had to do it. So I'm saying because like,

I do because I was trying to make it like you feel me? Like,

and as when I was like selling my soul. Oh, um

like, there was things that I could sacrifice about instead of that, and I sacrifice myself. I could have sacrificed anybody likes it, but when you say so you got to sacrifice so that you will learn I sacrifice myself some of it. Someone who's feels they've gotten that far they've sold their soul. And obviously if your soul is sold you probably you'll be dead because you can't sell your soul it's not yours to begin with. You don't have a title for it. Like so. What do you when you hear something like that someone who has sold themselves pretty much for fame for fortune, but at the end of the day, it equals misery. What would you tell someone like this to you and others who have you heard of

this island boy? No, I've never seen that in my life. And

I wish I could.

No, I just I've never I don't know who that is that a famous individual or the Yeah, these are the young Island boys who just hit viral they're pretty famous now. Yeah.

Other rappers singers are detainers they're rappers robbers. Yeah.

You know, like, I mean, I don't want to psychoanalyze the guy but but then if you ask the youth the youth would you want to stay away from this even Muslim youth You said you know the island boys is like yeah, we know the island boy

you know, later today, but I have to Google the island boys just so I'm not out of touch. Yeah. And I'm I have to listen to their music and I'm gonna have to it's kind of like, you know, try to understand like, Who are these people? Not because I generally, I'm gonna be entertained by but just because I'm curious to know, how did they get here? Like, look, I look at him. And to me, he looks tormented.

You know, you look at his

You know what he's done to his body, you can look at his his ability to communicate. Now I'm sure he's a very talented rapper. But he's trying to express himself and he's trying to say, look, I sold my soul now.

If he's,

if he's if somebody sells his soul, that means they have nothing left. I'm assuming that's what he means. Yeah, he's got nothing left. Because the essence of a pen is that it writes the essence of a human being is their soul.

Outside of our soul, what are we We're just rotting flesh? Yes. So I think he's saying, Look, because you know what, Eddie, you know, you know, what's the greatest hell.

In this world, the greatest hell in this world, is to be a slave to your desires.

There is no pleasure anymore, when your desires have overrun your world. Now imagine, anyway, we've talked about this in the past, but let's reiterate it to make it more clear. If I give you a chocolate cake, you might enjoy chocolate cake, you might enjoy. And then I make you eat a second one, you're gonna enjoy a little bit less, and I forced you to eat a third and I put a gun to your head, I'm making it a fourth and a fifth. Now you're eating chocolate cake and you're in torture. I'm making I bring you a seventh and an eighth. And now you're throwing up and I make you eat a ninth and now you're just seeing chocolate cake. You're You're You're shaking. You don't want the

same thing that wants to give you pleasure. It's now burdening you. Why? Because in this life, first you have to suffer. You have to have a desire that desires that discomfort. When you relieve that discomfort. Then you have this experience we call pleasure. This is in the Quran.

For every hardship, there's a relief. For every hardship, there's a relief, the Quran repeats it twice. Because in this life, we're stuck in the cycle of hardship and relief. You're hungry, it's discomfort, it's a hardship. Then you eat, you're relieved. But guess what? There's hunger again.

hunger comes again, it's it's cyclical, and then you have to relieve it again. And this world, we're stuck in the cycle

of hunger and relief, hunger and relief. However, however, the one who is a slave to that desire, he can't control that desire. He doesn't struggle with it. He doesn't fight back. He doesn't limit how much he eats. He doesn't limit how much he consumes. He thinks that more consumption is better, he becomes desensitized to that relief. So if you're gluttonous, if you overeat,

you never allow your body to be hungry. You never have a Ramadan. You never recharge your battery. You know, the Rama Ramadan is a great antidote for depression.

Because in the West, we have a lot of depression. Why do we have a lot of depression? We have too much food and drink we have too much free time. We have too much pleasure, not enough hardship.

You know, during the pandemic, they shut my gym down. The police was at my door all the time. Let me tell you something, I realized how much I love my gym. Like when I go in the gym. I'm so reenergized. I love it man. I love my why because the doors are reopened. They read I'm not trying to promote me at all please, please forgive me. It's just an example of a recent recent recharge. I've had the fact that it was taken away from me for over a year. The police were literally at my door banging on my door forcing me to leave the gym. Like I really got it got that it was that bad. How bad are they and kind of really bad and that was the I was the focal point of all the gyms in

Montreal like it's a long story but they were really after me particularly. And literally they came to my gym 16 times in the year and three times in one day at one point Yeah, I had a huge issue with the police like they really didn't want me in there. They really like adamantly didn't want me in there. And

it was such a difficult time but now I really appreciate my gym every time I go to the gym and I'm like I remember how much I love to be here

and I think the West needs some of that they need a Ramadan the West needs a yearly Ramadan what a year and they try to do it any they try to do a sober November something like that. I don't know I forget it October so October

where they say okay, we're not going to drink I don't know if it's October November forgive me. I'm not sure which one but they say Look, we're not gonna drink all month. We're not going to smoke weed all month. We're not going to do this on even they see. Even they see they understand that prescription. As long gives you but Islam with the beauty of it is we do it as a community. Look, we're all not going to eat. We're all not going to drink. We're all going to do it together. It's such a beautiful experience. Because when you're doing it alone, it's tough. But when you do it as a community, you read you recharge your batteries, you have a vigor for life. Chocolate, take

chocolate cake taste sweet again, coffee in the morning at the end of Ramadan. The one thing I look forward to is my morning coffee. I remember how precious my morning coffee is you reinvigorate yourself, you know, you know even just stopping your sexual desires for a month will reinvigorate you will remind you

Do you know how precious you know that experience is, you know, between a man and a woman, you and your wife?

You know you reinvigorate yourself the West is to

hedonistic, like that young man. He's fully tattooed, he's got a mouthful of gold. The worst thing that might have happened to him in his life is that he's been successful in the rich, because he didn't have the wisdom to control his desires. He seems like a young man who's already lived too much of life and he's desensitized. Because when you have too many women, Edie, when you have too much pleasure when you have too much abundance, what happens women is no longer pleasurable to look like chocolate cake, it's no longer pleasurable to now you need something more you need something more edgy.

You know, the most extreme sexual type of behaviors are in the cultures with the most extreme amount of free sex. Because now a woman is not enough anymore. You need something so bizarre, so perverted so

extreme that you're like, hey, wait, that's what it takes out for me to remember to feel what I used to feel. When a woman covers herself up, she's more desirable women have it backwards. They think they're more desirable, the more they show. No, actually, no, the man now sees you as cheaper. Actually, after he has his way with you.

Here your his his appreciation for you, or your value in his eyes drops exponentially. This is what women don't know, men secretly desire you less after they've had you.

The girl who makes a man wait shows him less, she has more power over his mind. There's nothing that drives a man more crazy than unattainable women. The woman in the West have it backwards. It's unfortunate, and they have it to their detriment. They're valued less, in my opinion, because the the appreciated less why because there had more easily.

They've cheapen themselves in a certain way, women as a woman is an extremely precious thing.

A human being is an extremely precious thing, food and drink friendship, everything's every resources are an extremely precious thing. However, when they're had an abundance, when their supplies too high,

their value goes down, but just just you know, that's the fundamental, you know, you know, the basics of the fundamental principle of economics, and I don't want to like human beings tokenomics. But there is a such thing as sexual market value.

Supply and demand, too much supply, you know, too much supply, demand goes down. And it's a shame that people don't understand this.

If you go back more in time, you can see that, you know, the institution of marriage was something that was held high and valuable, but it seems it just deteriorating, you know, as we're getting more advanced, but just more morally corrupt. But you hit a good point, when you look at look at dysfunction in the West, like, like relationship, excuse me, relationships in, I would say in the Western world, I've never been so unsuccessful. People are getting married less than ever, and they're getting a divorce more than ever.

your likelihood of having successful marriage or nuclear family in the West is super low. Like if you want to have a husband, a wife and three kids, a nuclear family, which is the bedrock of civilization.

You could tell how healthy a civilization is by how healthy the nuclear family is. The more abundant the nuclear families are, the more healthy the civilization, you can't build a civilization outside of a nuclear family. For instance, imagine, imagine you have 50 couples, you have a civilization of 100 people. And each, you have 50 cups. So you have 100 people, couple them, that's 50 people, they each only have one child, that means the next generation only have 25 people. And you can only have 12.5 couples.

And then that generation only has one one child each.

Now you're down to 12 children 12, one five children and so on. Now, you can only have six couples, you need to a couple, a male and a female, and three children for a civilization to grow and thrive. That has been severely hampered in the West why the kids today are to

their to bombarded

and has a lot to do with social media because now today, they don't have relationships anymore, like like we had in our generations, where you get to know each other you get married and you have to now it's happening more now. It's a hookup culture. Yeah. Why should I marry this girl when I got five other girls messaging me for the same weekend. So girls, what happens? It's called a race to the bottom Eddie. But a woman today who saves herself. She's competing with women who go out on a first date and have sexual intercourse with a with a with a man. So what they have to do now it's called a race to the bottom of women in the past woman in the 1920s. If you wanted to marry her, if you

wanted to marry her, you have to buy a house. First. You have to ask her father for permission. You have to go through all these hurdles and all

All the women held their own like this. All the women said no, we're not giving any sexual ratio to any man until he marries us buys us a house has a good job, etc. Ask my family for my father has to like my mother has to like excetera

men have to jump through so many hurdles, that they were on their best behavior.

They reached for the skies. And when they got the woman, they appreciated her because the guy broke his bank. He broke his bankroll to have her.

He, it was it was a very difficult thing together.

Now that he has her, he appreciates her.

He's literally you know that everything you can. And now women, it's a race to the bottom. Why? Because women in the 1920s If a girl would sleep with a man before marriage, they would shame her. She was ostracized, you broke this agreement we have with one another. We're not going to give men a woman for cheap women's value, the demand was so high because the supply there the amount you have to do, the amount you had to do to get a woman was so difficult. Now what happens is, it's a race to the bottom, the woman instead of waiting three dates now the wait two dates, and then instead of waiting two days, they wait one day, and now they don't even have to take me on a date. They call it

Netflix and chill. Just call me up and watch Netflix and have relations. It's become a race to the bottom, the women have to give up so easily. Why because that guy has four other girls, five other girls texting. It's a it's a moral race to the bottom.

And what happens is now they become us once and destroy almost user wants and find the next girl, there's been an abundance. Now, I don't want to single out women. But you know, there's a lot to what I'm saying. But biologically speaking, biologically speaking, men are more hardwired to behave this way. But yeah, women now are behaving this way. Why? Because they're trying to keep up with the demand. If you want to meet a man.

You're competing with a bunch of women who are ready right now send them nude photos of ourselves. Like it's just social media as like, super. It's been a catalyst for the race to the bottom. So try not getting married in this environment. It's very difficult thing. You know. So that's why, you know, a lot of people right now they almost want to leave the West to go get married, they want to go into another country where it's you know, there's very few places in the world where this is not happening. But there are places in the world. Because marrying a woman now today's so complicated, so difficult.

I don't know what this I can remember, this isn't but like 80% of divorces have some social media reference in them. Meaning that it has to do with infidelity. And it arises from social media, I can remember this isn't it's like 70% or something like that. It's a very high level of like social media has affected relationships in the West. No doubt. Yeah, that's a whole different topic. I mean, the 20 million STDs, you know, not not to talk about the illegitimate children, the children's lives who are brought into this world, you know, by accident, because of these illicit relationships. And the list goes on of all the detrimental effects it has on society. I was just

thinking real quick before we could, it just had me thinking like, you know, it's all about you know, this well, as a, someone who's coached some of the great champions like George St. Pierre and others, at the end of the day, like it's all about the after party. It's you know, it's all about right and the fighter but if you think about it for people that say, Oh, this is too hard Islam, you know, all these do's and don'ts and whatnot, whatever, but the fighter just this example with a fighter, you know, the fighter won't party before his fight if he's disciplined, right, he won't go and party before his fight because he knows kind of effects is going to have on him he'll wake up

for Fajr No, I mean, he'll wake up for training right? He'll fast No, I don't mean fast to actually you know, want to make weight so he'll be starving. Right? And he'll he'll exclude certain things include certain things he'll voice certain foods. I mean, he'll pretty much like suffer tremendously for reaping certain gains, who put himself in uncomfortable situations almost like torturing himself. Now, I just was thinking about that looking like for us now. Like when people tease Muslims, all you Why are you guys not drinking? Why did you go to the party? Oh, why are you fasting and all that? But you have the model, right? Who's working for Vogue, she's throwing up she's trying

not to be fast, and she's like, killing herself. So but after party for us is something that's everlasting, you know, to see the Face of your Lord to be in Jenin the most pure place you can be. And God Almighty Allah is saying the one who's successful, who purifies it, the soul so we're trying to purify ourselves, our souls so we can have the everlasting not just the after party in this life that's over at a blink of an eye. But to get to Jenner, you know. Now, imagine, imagine, look, Islam is functional. Your what you're saying is, look, imagine all the ghettos in all the world.

Imagine every ghetto around the world saying, Look, we're no longer going to pay interest. How do bankers stay rich? Eddie, how do they stay richer than the rest of us? interest? Interest? Yeah, 90 over 95% of the world's income is made via interest.

It's a massive amount, we will never, if you took all the money in the world and give it back to the banks, you would still owe the money. Well, when they when they print the dollar, and they give it to us, they give it to us with interest on it. You could if you took everybody in the world, if you took all our money and you compiled it in a huge pile, all our assets, the gold, the Bitcoin, and we gave it back to them, we still owe them money. You can never repeat them back until you say we're not paying interest anymore. You will never, you will never pay them back. Now imagine the ghettos of the world said, Look, we're not going to pay interest no more.

All of us collectively imagine you said all the ghettos of the world said Look, we're not going to drink alcohol anymore. We're not going to smoke drugs anymore.

We're not going to fight each other anymore. Imagine he said, Look, we're not gonna have illegitimate children anymore. We're not gonna we're not gonna allow extramarital sex. Like, we're gonna

imagine what a world that would be.

All the ills of our world come from all the things that are head on, think of it. Imagine you go into ghettos in America, and you tell them look, don't shoot each other anymore. Don't sell drugs anymore to one another, don't pay interest anymore to these bags, don't buy your homes anymore via interest. If we all collectively say no, to the bankers, they have nobody to collect interest from they have nobody to sell houses to their market will crash. The house housing market will be for free for us, we will live we will build our own houses, if they had this collective type of thinking. If we can unite them, if we can get them together,

there would be many ills of the world fall by the wayside.

Like for instance, the reason why look, if you have to ask yourself, if you if like, you know what I think is the greatest thing you can do in this world is have a successful marriage with three children or more.

That, for me is the most important thing for me, when I die, I want to make sure I did that successfully. I had a wife and three children or more, and I taught them to be good human beings. Imagine everybody did that. Imagine the whole world did that. There would be no wars, because your children wouldn't go to war because they don't want to go into that other guy's country to break to kill him to take his resources. They don't love the dunya they don't love the richest of this world. They're not so they're not so impressed by your Fifth Avenue apartment. They don't desire it. You know, you know, Plato said something amazing. So look, you can't be rich and be an honest human

being also at the same time. Why? Because to get those riches to have that Fifth Avenue apartment. I don't totally agree with him. Okay, I believe you can be rich and be an honest person. Okay. But he's saying, look, so many of wealth is gained by stiffing somebody else by injuring somebody else. But if people didn't love wealth, so much if they were happy with just the basics, if they made their needs few Edie.

And I'm for pro, I'm pro technology. Okay, I think you should invent the computer because it's great. And it's I love the printing press. I love technology. I'm always for technology. Why? Because knowledge and speed of advancements is great. However, I don't I wouldn't invent the computer if I had the capability. Just because I want to live in a luxurious house, I wouldn't you have to invent the computer technology because you want to make the world a better place. Because you think you love knowledge. We look at this. I mean, you are sharing ideas? Not because necessarily we want to make money. Of course we all want to earn a living but we love learning,

don't we?

We love learning. We love knowledge. We're lovers of wisdom and knowledge. So if the whole world adopted this mentality that look, let's do what's best for building nuclear families.

Okay, everything else takes a backseat, then you'd have to take it back alcohol would have to take a backseat. extramarital sex would have to take a backseat if it's truly what's most important if it's truly what you desire, you know, selling drugs to my neighbor would take a backseat. Why? Because I don't want to poison my neighbor's ability to raise children also, I don't want to I don't want the money that badly. Then I'm willing to poison my neighbor. So I can have a fancier house. You know, because a drug dealer, that's what he's doing. He's poisoning his neighbor.

Because he wants to have luxuries. I don't care how much you offer me. I will never sell or promote drugs and alcohol never. I don't care how you know, you know, Edie, I get offers all the time from gambling sites they want to promote on my social media.

I would make more money than all my sponsors collected these guys make so much money gambling, sexual makes they make so much money. And I've been approached by huge companies over the years. I never even remotely tempted to see us never show up. Because what's what's gambling. I'm taking money from you. For me to be rich to have to cripple your account. It's such a it's such a

people call it fun if you do it responsibly. No people get addicted to it and they ruin their lives.

I find that imagine the whole world said Look, we're not gambling anymore. We're not drinking alcohol anymore. We're not selling drugs. No more

paying interest no more. We're gonna raise our children to be good. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal. There's no amount of money to turn you into a liar. Imagine all human beings tomorrow.

There's no amount of money that will turn them into all that there's no amount of temptation that will make them a thief.

What kind of world do you think we'd be living in? We'd be living in a beautiful utopia. All the world needs to make all the evils that gentleman in the beginning Stephen Fry

was complaining about all the world needs is for us to raise a generation

of compassionate just human beings and that's the mission of Islam. Islam is telling you Look raise children, they don't lie, cheat steal.

And they're not greedy for the dunya

they're not they're not dying to have that porch when they see a guy driving by with a Lambo and this and that, you know, Eddie, I've made a lot of money in my life you'll never see me buy a Lamborghini and show it online and tell people look at these $500 shirt I have I will never do this. I will never ever in my entire life

indulgent luxuries.

Why? Because that makes the youngster behind me he wants to get luxuries and you know what he's going to do what it takes to get luxuries. Why? Because he also wants his his media followers to know he wants to be big on internet he wants his his piece of the pie.

Whatever you raise it and Islam is is also has a mission. Yes, Islam is divine revelation, but Islam also has a divine mission,

to turn the world to turn the world into a generation to grow. That's why I always tell people if you're Muslim, that means you have an oath to be the most just and fair human being. Don't forget

you have an oath you took an oath to be the just and most fair human being possible. Now I know we all have our shortcomings. I'm not perfect. I'm far from perfect, but I try every day to be the most Justin fair human being I can. And this is the mission of Islam. Islam is telling you don't pay interest. Don't drink alcohol. Make a habit, read a six, raise a successful family, teach them not to be greedy. Teach them not to be violent, teach them to be good human beings. Teach them to worry about the next life, not this life. They don't have a Lambo in this life. You don't want a Lambo in this life? You don't need it. You don't need that. Yeah, that youngster I saw saying he sold his

soul. He got the Lambo, he got the riches, but he ain't happy yet. He still doesn't have what he wants. There's no, there. He still hasn't reached the what we talked about earlier that can Sonam been the greatest good.

There's no amount of Lambos Eddie, there's no amount of women that he that doesn't take that desire for that, that the greatest good human beings don't forget human beings.

We have the ability

to picture life as lasting forever. Why is that? Why is that ability there? You know, we you know, Thomas Nagel asked that question. He said, Look, and he's an atheist, by the way.

That's what I like to use him. He's a philosophy professor. He says, Look,

how come I'm thinking at this level, if I'm just a byproduct of Darwinian mechanisms?

Why do I think why am I able to think about meta truth, metaphorical truth? Why am I thinking at this level? What does that have to do with survival reproduction? There seems to be that and he by the way, he's, he's he's declared himself an atheist forever. Like he'll he said, I'll never go back on atheism, no matter how much it seems absurd, because he has like this emotional connection with atheism,

that even if God came down and talk to him, he still has to be atheist, basically, is what he's trying to tell us. He has a blind connection is a blind faith in atheism. But he says, Look, it doesn't make sense that we are able to think metaphorically, it doesn't have anything to do with survival and reproduction.

We have this calling. We all have this natural religion that we can't verbalize. We can't point to it. We can't use we can't come up with a mathematical formula to encapsulate it yet. We all know it.

But Islam also has this mission. And it's very important that we're aware of it. Islam is telling you to breed a generation of

people, human beings that are just and that cannot be tempted.

They cannot be tempted by Lamborghini, social media, they they avoid all this. And that's that's the beauty in Islam. Were we put humanity first.

Not the individual, we put the group first, what's best for the group. It's not healthy for me to pay interest. It's not healthy for me to buy and sell alcohol, for it's not healthy for the community. So I'm going to put the community ahead I'm going to put my family you know, what do you tell me? How many drug dealers have successful families?

The kids grow up saying hey, you bought you bought me these luxuries in life by shooting and killing and poisoning people.

he resents his father as he grows up. He thinks my father's a bad guy actually, if you think about it, you actually don't want these these luxurious things. Or my father was shot and killed or murdered or went to jail for 10 years now you told me How's his relationship with his children if he's in jail for 20 years, they all end up jail or dead or hated by their own family. Why? Because they end up seeing look my wife she's with me because I'm a gangster and I poisoned people and she wants that luxury back so badly. She's willing to go out let me risk my neck of getting shot killed or put in jail. So she can have that Gucci bag

you know, one time I had a student of mine come in a really rich guy, and he came in with like a $40,000 gym Gucci bag. And I just took it I chucked it across the gym. This thing out of my gym I was so gross. Like I you know, he's a friend of mine he knows like we know each other like he came in once upon a time when there was no Gucci. That was the Gucci bag. I took it I threw it across the

UK you gonna put your quick like he's so rich, you can put his dirty filthy equipment sticky header. That's how rich he is.

And I just got to look at it anyway, I just took a chuck and that's how meaningless is to me I didn't ask him for one you know he's so rich could buy me one you could snap his fingers and buy I don't want it. I don't because if we're doing Gucci on it now you want me to pay the price. This is basically telling the world look how much excessive money I have. Look how rich I am. I can spend my resources on this meaningless meaningless object instead of helping the world look let me just tell you guys how important of a human being how much resources I've collected. I just took that I just chuck it across the cage the gym I think to me it's garbage now look I'm nothing against people want

to wear Gucci you want to wear Gucci, that's your business. But he was a friend of mine Australian teach him a little life lesson. And you know, I think I think meet him. We're good friends. Like even though we have very vastly different perspectives, we're still good friends.

Well, I promise you guys, it'd be enlightening. If you really deep we went really deep. You get

a great bang for your buck here. Meaning that if you guys are true seekers, if you want to go from meaningless to meaningful, there's a lot to cover here. You know, this is a lot of gems here. Thank you so much for spending the time with us and sharing. react in some of these videos and sharing much of your thoughts and shadows can be a great, great benefit for many to come in sha Allah God. It was fun. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you my brother. Thank you