Shadee Elmasry – Hidden Dangers of Perennialism
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Well, what is the perennial list? First of all the perennial list
are people who hold that there is a truth. And that truth is found
in the different religions, mainly Christianity, Hinduism, they
pretty much ignored Judaism because the Jews don't want any of
this. And Islam, they pretty much are promoting that sometimes they
dabble in Native American religion. I don't even know if
you'd call that religion, Hinduism also, it's not religion. It's like
a plethora of different ideas, that the British ended up naming
Hinduism.
That just basically the ideas of the Hindu Lindt. So the prime is
do believe that there is a truth, okay, and that it's in these
religions, same universal truth. And when it comes to the actual
contradictions within the religions, these religions, they
get fuzzy. And they basically say that there's a mystical reality
above it all. So basically, to ignore your intellect when it
comes to recognizing the linguistic or the doctrinal
differences. And to say that, you know, in order to bring these
ideas down to the level of their culture, or their people or the
intellects of that time, they needed to use this language. So
what one thing that you're faced with is the necessity really, of
suspending your intellect, in favor of a mystical experience
that somebody must have had, that is telling us that it just ignore
all these clear differences like Jesus, is it does a Trinity true,
or is Islamic version true? Okay.
Reincarnation, is that true? Or is the Day of Judgment true? Like
when I die? What's going to happen? Am I going to be judged?
As myself? Or as my soul and mind going to be put into another body?
And if so, what source is informing us of that? And number
two, like, do I remember? Like, if I have this the same soul in the
same body? So is your memory wiped away? Otherwise, you'd remember
who you were, and everyone would be claiming? Hey, I was Elvis. I
was Napoleon. I was getting ISKCON. And if that's not the
case, if the case is that your memories wiped away, and you start
over fresh, then who would have ever known that you're
reincarnated? Right? If your memories wiped fresh, then who's
telling you that you're reincarnated? So they dabble with
these things? And their approach to it is essentially, an anti
rationalist approach, a mystical approach that is, basically it's
not super rational. It's anti rational is basically telling you
don't go the route of the common man's intellect. Okay? And and the
end the literalist jurist intellect, leave that and
recognize that there's a mystical reality above these words. And
above these doctrines. Okay, that is essentially, the premise of
perennialism. And the funny thing about it the reasons that are
these guys extinct, like all my would, have you ever heard of
perennialism? Outside of this? I mean, right now, I'm just taking a
class and rockers like, yeah, just because you know, you have to
fulfill requirements. Yeah. So like a religion class, and they're
going over it. But it's weird, like a lot of people like because
you have this discussion posts, a lot of the people I think they're
leaning towards that, like the perennial list. Most people, they
lean towards a type of perennialism. That's a layman's
perennialism, which is not necessarily just a friend of ism,
it's more like, between perennialism and relativism. So
relativism is like there's not one set of truths, but everyone's got
a little bit of truth. Okay, that's one view. And there's,
there's a think tank zaytuna colleges is gets a lot of funding
from them. I'm not trying to bash a tunic, I'm just saying they get
a lot of funding from them. The founder of that think tank holds
the philosophy that no religion got it got it, right. But every
religion got it a little bit, right. So hold on a second,
wouldn't you need to know what's right, in order to judge these
religions, right? Like these things, there's their logic is
always circular. There's a fund a foundation. It's some rich guy,
who was seems like a nice guy, right? He's some rich guy. And he
was into finding out what the truth is. But like many
businessmen, they make bold claims that are beyond their scope,
right? Like, you shouldn't be making these claims. But he made
the claim, because when you're really rich, you're surrounded by
people who just say, Yeah, that's a great idea. Right? Otherwise,
their paycheck is gonna be in doubt. So he ends up basically
saying that all religions have some truth in it, but none of them
got it fully. Right. You would need to know what's right. So you
got it. Right. Exactly. So you're, you're claiming that you got it
right. You would need to know what is right in order to make that
judgment. Just like who is it that says that? Who was it that says
that?
No, like the followers of of NaVi. I don't need to get in trouble
with them. But you know, I love them and everything but they say
that do
They divide up the Ocala the okul the intellect into the common man,
the mid range intellect, which is the majority of like scholars and
football and Imams, and then the high level intellect, which is the
mystics and stuff. Okay, if that's the case, then you are making a
judgment. Can you show us what the scale is? Right? What's the scale?
Because if they're if you're making a judgment, these guys got
it. These guys are okay. And these guys don't got it. What is the
scale? So we can study the scale, just like saying IQs? Well, you
can give me the exam, I can study for it, I can improve. Same even
to me on the opposite side says logic doesn't benefit people who
are intelligent. They don't need it. And if they're dull, they
don't benefit from it just confuses them. Oh, hold on a
second. So you're telling me that there's really smart people, and
there are adult people? Based on what skill? Did you make that
judgment? Right. Based upon what scoreboard based upon what
measuring stick? Show us the measuring stick? Is that not a
rational statement that you just made? Then it needs a measuring
stick? So I think I'm on both sides. All right. It's me I used
to put away months he downgraded Montek the hypnotic B buttons, as
I understand it, also, they have some downgrades on month up. And
then nd if you get end up with perennialism also is close to the
accordion view. But of course not not even close to that because
like buttons are all Muslims, right? The perennial list view is
not an Islamic view. You as someone who has that as a motet
apostate doesn't directly want to wherever you want to call it not a
not an apostate because he's still saying he's a Muslim. But he says
indeed, they ended up saying that all the fates, it is really not
necessary to make a decision on which face but you need to be
orthodox within each one. You need to be the Orthodox of each
religion in any of the religions and you'll arrive at a great
spiritual reality. So
tough. He puts this together on yaki and read it for yourself. And
here's the thing, I love it and everything but you know what I
love even more perennial lists are extinct. If you're just out there
in the realm of Dawa, just walking around, you don't see them, right?
They have no mother there, who's there? Who are their leaders? Who
are their books, that's all the old generation, there was a
generation in the 60s 70s 50s 60s 70s into the 80s
maybe into the 90s that love this mystical stuff that brought all
the religions together. It seems like it had like two people with
divorced parents of different religions, just looking for
something that brings it all together. And the study of Quran
came out 2015 It got lambasted the sales tanked. Okay, everything was
it really wasn't like a terrible lunch for them. Because they tried
to sneak it in, you know, if they had said, Oh, by the way, this is
the perennial list view. I'd be like, Okay, well, they said it.
Right. They made a clear distinction for the Sunday reader.
But nobody said anything, nor the Sunni Imams who promoted it and
then they didn't say anything they say this great book just keep in
mind there's a plenty of this idea in here that could be acceptable
okay. It probably you know, would it be too many people because
you're still
promoting something that is antithetical to the to our
doctrine or Aki that that Allah wrote down in the Quran. But
nonetheless, at least you could say they pointed it out. Same was
a machete the man has a machete is
right.
Mouth as much as easily right. But it's pointed out it's like well
known nobody. It's like anyone who reads that book knows that. So
they they make it clear, same thing with him. And Kathy, if
you're going to read him to Kathy it, he has on them with a shabby
had some issues. Right, from from our perspective. And so point
being is that
a couple years after that they had a big fitna within their group,
their clique. Right. And, and they are click of intellectuals, very
high level intellectuals in different colleges and
universities, okay. So
on. As a result of that they really just like, deflated, they
deflated. And now, past few years, this is the most attention they're
going to get is from Yaqeen. They got more attention from this
article. I'm not blaming a peon for doing this, or for Kenya for
doing it, you need to have a refutation. But I think they got
more attention from refutations of their illogical ideas and
irrational ideas than he was the only one giving them positive
attention consistently. Is a turn a college I say it as a critique.
Right? This is there. They give it positive attention. They never say
Okay, here it is. But be careful to be careful with these ideas.
They're not Islamic ideas like that little thing. She comes to
himself does it he says it he says people say I'm a perennials I'm
not a perennial list. I mean, he never necessarily explicitly said
it's cool for him. But for what it's worth, he says that he's not
a perennial, so teach
distances himself from that. But he's also not a Hanafy. He's not a
ham buddy. He's not a chef. Right? He's not as ad. Bull not being
something is not a ruling.
Do I care what somebody is? I need to know the ruling, right? These
ideas are kooky ideas. In any event, it should comes into the
need to say it, everyone else is saying it. Okay. This is a cool
furry idea. It is a European ideology that poses itself as the
Judge of all religions, the nerve, right? The judge of all religions,
and he goes deep into the 1600s. And
he goes deep into there. The origins of these ideas, it's a
long is, is he now officially part of 15, or just a contributor,
because he's doing the podcast, he's doing these other things, so
good for him. I like his ideas.
You know, his work in general. And he's got a lot of really good
quotes here from them. And the other guy who's their arch enemy,
what's his name? They all pretend they don't know who he is. And I
forgot his name because I read his book a long time ago. He's a
former perennial list, who had a personal burnout with Martin
lings. And then wrote, like the tell all about the perennial list
like, it is a little bit of a cult, there's a clear and they
never want to come out and say, Hey, we're printing this is our
belief, because illogical, it's an illogical belief. Now, if you're a
Sedgwick, that's his name, Cedric, Mark. I think it's Mark Sedgwick.
Yes, Sedgwick.
Listen up, it's gonna be an hour. If you're a perennial list. If
your perennial is sympathizer, do not dare show up to a molded and
say, Oh, I'm a Sufi. No, don't you are the biggest insults of the
Prophet sallallahu sunnah. Why? Because you try to put icing on
it. See that she's the the right wing guys. They put the poison
right there. It's it's poised. They want you dead. They want you
eliminated the hardcore evangelical Christians, even some
of the Catholics. Catholics aren't all like friendly. Right? I've
been on some Catholic websites and go down to the comments section.
You know, they say things about Muslims, they don't believe it's
true. They just believe it's a falsehood that needs to be
eliminated from the earth. That's their belief. Good. Catholics
aren't always all our friends either. But then, at least those
that it's clear, they're against you period discussion over the
liberals, it doesn't take, you know, too much to realize that
they only like you as a minority identity. That's it. As soon as
you're the majority. And as soon as you're insistent, that is the
truth. And as soon as you forbid, wrong, that they love. They're
your enemies. Right? It took maybe a decade or two for for everyone
to get around to it. But now majority Muslims know that the
Liberals are their enemies, the progressives in these, but these
guys will come in and can fool people for a long for years. For
years, you'll never know if you don't read carefully, the
beautiful flowery covers critique of modernity, right, all wonderful
critiques. That's the best part of them the critique of modernity.
But flowery Sufi covers right, the Sufi path of love and this that
and the other. Right if not to be said this the only quote like
three Islamic scholars, and they don't they heard the quote the
Quran, they never quote a hadith, right? They rarely quote the
Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. It's one of the signs of a
sunnah and not a sunnah. Okay, so you can be fooled. And at the end
of the day, you do not require Iman and the prophet for
salvation, yes or no? The answer to them is no, we do not require
it for salvation. So don't dare show but anymore. I did. Don't put
you know, anything of this stuff, posting this stuff and talking
about this. As if we love the Prophet. No, you cannot say I love
the Prophet, but I don't believe you don't have to believe him. So
then what is you then did you lie? Oh, it's just relative relative
who's deciding what's relative? If you're deciding what's relative,
you gotta go up, right? You got to rise up above and you'd be an
authority above them. Okay. So this stuff is just, it's nice to
see though that the truth prevails and these silly ideas, honestly,
it's an idea that caught on some people emotionally. They promoted
it for years. Okay. Decades, got in very high positions. But
notice, they can never come out in the light in the open and said, We
apprentice. This is our belief. They may touch upon it here and
there. sneak it in. Oh, the perennial. You know, they never
will never say here's the penniless athlete. Here's our
data. Let's debate it. Let's discuss it. Okay. All right. So
the good job there by Yaqeen for putting that out there. You can
get it just go to it. You want to link it maybe?
Are all religions, the same? Islam and the false promise of
perennialism.
And this was published a couple of days ago. All right. Well done.
Honestly, there's a
There are only a few things that I would say. This is one of the few
things I would say that the tolerance level for it is very
low. It's very low tolerance level for this nonsense.
And and the fact that you try to sneak into this summit community
never come out in the open. And then you've somehow got the
sympathy of Dr. Ahmad who somehow got the sympathy of Sheikh Hamza
Yusuf and they, you know, helped you along and open the door for
you, and neither other coming into different regular normal, or they
say, normative Sunni operations and conferences and teaching as if
this is like just a regular, acceptable scholarship when it's
far from that. I have to say that far from that. But hey, you know,
one thing good about zaytuna college, it's all for everything's
up for critique, right? As long as you bring knowledge, and you bring
a fair critique, good. And so that's they they're accepting of
that, which is why I say it knowing that they're not going to
take it personally. Because when you become a college open up for
fair critique, that's exactly what we gave