Channel: Sajid Ahmed Umar
Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah who Allah Allah He was so happy he was seldom at the Sleeman kathira Allah Medina
Allahu Allah and mellonella alum Tina in the cantle animal Hakeem Allahumma alumna Mayan Pharaoh now when firing that'd be my LinkedIn that was it in that moment where MLM Dr. Karim propitiously sadri was really angry at me Lisa Annie Yahoo. Kohli, or praise belongs to Allah subhanho wa Taala alone. We praise Him and we seek his assistance and guidance and we seek refuge in Allah from the evil of ourselves and the adverse consequences of our deeds. We testify the rules of Allah guides and unkind misguided whosoever He must guide the man can guide and we request praises and blessings upon the final messenger Muhammad Ali Abdullah Saleh Allahu Allah He was seldom I be what is that there's no
one worthy of worship besides one Allah and that Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is His Messenger. To my dearest brothers and sisters in Islam. I greet you with the greetings of peace, the greetings of Islam and the greetings of the people of Paradise Salaam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. May the peace and blessings of Allah subhanho wa Taala be upon you all. Brothers and sisters in Islam, I welcome you to Episode Seven of direct access, an episode giving you firsthand access to the chairman and CEO of charity, right? a Registered Charity involved in the space of education through feeding. If I can put it that way. It's very interesting indeed and inshallah you
will learn more about this as our episode progresses. Now brothers and sisters in Islam as an Ummah of faith that was sent to give and not to take. We are an Ummah that prides itself on having our money in our hands and not in our hearts. This is an important fundamental reality of the oma Mohammed sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. It is our faith in Allah that governs what our money does and not our money that governs what our faith does, right? This is the reality of La ilaha illAllah Muhammad Rasul Allah. Now with this mandate, brothers and sisters in Islam, we derive our ethos with regards to wealth from the sources of a living tradition, the Quran, and the Sunnah. And when we
look in our sources, brothers and sisters in Islam, then page upon page are we taught that money isn't something obtained by us but rather something ordained by Allah subhanho wa Taala. We are also taught that wealth is not necessarily something cursed, but rather we understand its nature as something blessed or cursed based on how we earn it, or how we spend it.
In addition to this brothers and sisters in Islam, our sources make manifest that the wealth within our possession, this wealth is not something
owned by us, but rather something owned by Allah subhanho wa Taala. And this is clear in the fact that we will be questioned on the Day of Judgment brothers and sisters in Islam,
questions related to our financial practices. If we were the sole owners of our wealth, then we wouldn't be questioned. Now More importantly, brothers and sisters in Islam, when we look in our sources we are taught that from the qualities of faith is to have outstretched arms, right to have arms that are always given for the sake of Allah subhanho wa Taala right at the beginning of the Quran at the opening of Surah Baqarah Allah subhanho wa Taala says a levena You mean una bella hype or up Muna Sala woman Moroccan food, those who believe in the unseen and establish the prayer and spend out of what We have provided for them what Allah has provided for us. Furthermore, Allah
subhanho wa Taala he says eloquently, yeah, you are Latina Manu and futami merasakan el camino public at a yo moolah Baron v. What a hula, what Asha that oh you who have believed spend from that which we have provided for you before there comes a day in which there is no exchange and no friendship and no intercession? Allah subhanho wa Taala also says, me No no. Mina tuber
whoo bow. Yeah Moodle una roofie y en whoa now I need to carry on up Muna sila or up moon I'll tell you to zanka you won't be Oh, la
la una una casa yo hi moo moo la in LA.
Hakeem Allah subhanho wa Taala says the believing men and the believing women are allies to one another. They enjoy what is right and they forbid what is wrong, and they establish the prayer and they give Zakat and they obey Allah and His messenger. Then Allah subhanho wa Taala, Allah says, Those Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might, and Allah is always supine Allah. Allah says Allah Zina imechanic when you fill out a car masala
zeca What am I robbing my roof? Why not? Whoa, I need a moon cup. What do you learn here are people to the moon, Allah subhanho wa Taala refers to those. He says those who if we give them authority in the land, we establish them in the land, they establish the prayer and they give zakah and they enjoy what is right and forbid what is wrong. And to Allah subhanho wa Taala belongs the outcome of all matters. And the verses brothers and sisters in Islam go on and on. And as long as you know, the reality is we have countless verses. And along with these verses, we have countless Hadith and teachings from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam, teaching us about the honor of the hand that
gives and the importance of a hand that continues to give. Now that said brothers and sisters in Islam, this does not mean that being charitable, is confined to financial charity purely, this is not the case. And we look at the sherea sherea as a whole. And when we do so we realize that charity is far more vast than the concept of financial charity, or financial giving. We land brothers and sisters in Islam, that charity is also observed through acts of worship, like saying Subhana Allah. This is an act of worship and a sadaqa. As for the teaching of our beloved prophet muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, we have the Doha prayer, which is a means of our joints being
charitable, the joints within our body being charitable, again, as per the teaching of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam SubhanAllah. He also said that a smile is a sort of that in a in the law. However, no doubt the greater focus when it comes to this discussion of charity in the Quran. And the Sunnah, is on the financial aspects of being charitable. And perhaps this is the case brothers and sisters in Islam, whereby we have some data associated with finances, due to the fact that it is from human nature to be inclined towards wealth, and the love of wealth. And as some have said, some of the pious before us, they have said that wealth is the twin of the self. And perhaps that's
because people have to work hard to earn it. So they give some of their self, some of themselves to gain it and when that happens, they treat it as something very close to them and it becomes very difficult for you know, for them to let go off. So perhaps this is a wisdom as to why we find the greater emphasis of Islam when he talks about sadaqa being attached to the concept of financial sada now with this introduction, brothers and sisters in Islam, we can move on to the next part of our discussion. And this is, as was advertised in Sharla. Today, we want to talk to
the movers and shakers within the charitable field, or the third sector as it is known. And we want to move on to
discussing this reality brothers and sisters in Islam that Allah subhanho wa Taala has created us as interdependent societies, this is a reality. Right. And this means we are you know, we are societies that thrive upon leveraging of each other's strengths for the betterment of society as a whole. Right. And today, we are known as a global society, which makes this meaning something even more tangible and something even more real. Now, in order for our charity to be impactful, nationally, and at times, even globally, then naturally we have to rely upon our charitable agents if I can call them this, our charities, our charitable organizations, or SMF, called it and I said this earlier,
the third sector. Now, this sector brothers and sisters in Islam is one which over a long period of time, through grassroots efforts have embedded themselves within the fabric of proactive and relief based charitable efforts, allowing them to develop a knowledge set and the skill set that we can benefit from and help our charity. Have a great day.
impact and have a greater meaning. Now, whilst they do great work, it is unfortunate and this is a reality that through some forms of financial and operational negligence, a few charities have
have lacked this financial and operational negligence. And as a result, skepticism is increasingly becoming a concern with regards to Muslims and the passing over of the charities to charitable organizations. Now,
it doesn't help when we have social media that thrives on making a meal of people's mistakes, organizations mistakes, and they don't really make a meal. When it comes to the successes of organizations, right, that meal is left to be made by the organization themselves. Okay, so this doesn't help brothers and sisters in Islam. And as a result, we've seen a trend where people are leaning towards 100% donor policy offerings that some charities do before they actually consider passing the funds over to a charity. And this is the right no doubt brothers and sisters in Islam, but in retrospect, this has also caused reputable charitable efforts to delay seeing the actual
potential and the change which they seek to create. Okay, so what's Islam's take on this inshallah we want to discuss this today as well? Now, there's so much to say and hamdulillah and when this
episode was announced, many of your questions came in, what the hell happened? I have collated those questions and inshallah, the questions that we can take, we will take today and to help us with this discussion is the chairman of charity, right? a charity that is beloved to me because of the ethos and the track record, and his brother also, that is beloved to me, may Allah subhanho wa Taala bless him, that his brother for us Mashallah Baraka, brother for us
is the chairman of charity of charity right? And he's also in he's also the founder. I hope I get this right brother for us the founder of Saracens law, solicitors
co founder onaconda nightmarish All right.
There we go. So, Mashallah, he's someone established, Masha, Allah, Allah, and aside of this, more importantly, he's someone who has volunteered his services to the charitable organizations for many years, as well as raising 10s of 1000s of pounds for those in need all over the world. Okay, now along with him, is a brother many of you will know I think he's a celebrity Allah subhanho wa Taala knows best and Mashallah kovarik Allah He is also somebody beloved to me, brother suggests Muhammad and he is the CEO of charity right he's been the CEO of charity for the past six years and he has been serving the Muslim community for over a decade and I am a witness to this Masha Allah, Allah,
he was involved in education
and community development before he focused focused his efforts full time to this particular project, okay, now, let me get this right, because I have been playing around with the controls. So let me get this right. Excellent. I think I have managed to get all of us on screen. So firstly, let me greet you all by saying Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Five, come on guys, you can you can be a bit more louder than that.
I love bless you both Love Lucy, but it's really wonderful. Having you Mashallah, with us here, being with you, or be it online. I know, when I come to the UK, we always try and meet and be together and you both have a special place in my heart. And since we can't be together physically, at least and Hamdulillah, we have the internet to manage,
you know, the distance between us in some capacity, we thank Allah subhanho wa Taala for that, so just recognize her for being a part and parcel of today's program. Now, as I said, we do have many questions. And before we get into
some of them, I'd like for subject if I may, if you could tell us a little bit about charity, right? When did it start? What is its vision? What is its scope of operation?
I guess charter rights started as a concept in Malaysia back in 2013. So it was not something that was founded here in the UK, not not a lot of people are aware of that. But hamdulillah It started off as a project very simply, there was a desire to help the Muslim main, remain faithful for the muslimeen in Malaysia, to you know, just have a regular meal.
And our beloved chef shift or fixture who was living in Malaysia at the time when the light is still there.
I saw this opportunity where there was a lot of food versus I think Malaysia scores amongst the top sort of five or six countries in terms of food wastage. So a group of volunteers essentially got together, they will collect food from the hotel's the restaurants, at the end of the night, they would pack it overnight and then go deliver it to the slum areas. And whoever was there mostly on on Muslim, they will deliver the food. So as this, I guess, got some traction, you found that more and more people actually said, Well, if you're going to do that, why don't you take some of our, some of our donations and, and you can use that to to actually buy some food as well, at the same time.
And, you know, it wasn't long before, you know, cash donations and donations to actually what was then just charged, right? You know, food drops outweighed the actual collection. And he made more sense just to use the money and, and deliver fresh food, obviously, we didn't know where how the hotel had cooked. And if there was contamination, how long you've been in the hotel, or the restaurant, or whatever it might be. So that's essentially where charge rate started. But it was started with a desire to kind of uplift the Muslim community, I'd give them dignity and honor. And try and feed them from, from poverty. Obviously, having started like that, we became
a little bit more kind of objective, and we started looking at this long term.
And I think even for [???] when he explains
some of the narrative behind it, and, and kind of his own sort of inspiration. I mean, when he shared that with me back in 2013, I was motivated enough to, to kind of make this my, my full time sort of,
you know, sort of thing that I wanted to kind of spend as many hours as possible, you know, also following down this route. And at the time, I was I was without, of course, but I think that the real thing was shared mentioned was there was two things two is that he mentioned and they've stuck with me, I think since then, obviously, he has a lot of kind of content around this. A lot of hot buzz and a lot of inflammation then the the main thing was that Allah subhanaw taala he talks about feeding the people, not like anything else, like we hear about it in the in the Bible, maybe it's a it's a nice action, it's a good action to do, you know, feeding the people on the license is a
blessing thing to do. But in the Quran is almost it's it's it's joining with, with Jenna and Johanna. So Allah subhanaw taala says, Have you seen those people? You know, the people of Ghana will talk to the people of gender, and we'll have that conversation. It's the Quran takes you to that place. Yeah. And one of the reasons was because the empty deposit Allah subhanaw taala is telling us, just, you know, these are important things for you.
And for me, you know, this, this is about the righteous of those who feed the poor, the orphan and the country and they do it for no other reason. But to please Allah subhanaw taala and Allah subhanaw taala himself describes those people as righteous people, as long as they have this intention of doing it only for Allah sake, and they don't want anything in return. And remember, shake telling is, at that time, I think she saw you there all, at the same time that you're even asking those poor people to make up for you is asking for something in return. So don't even make this was the kind of training that he gave us in the early days to say, you know, don't even ask
what a doula you know, just deliver it, drop it and go that's that's your job, don't get off, you know, expecting into it. Because even though has.
So we start with that, that kind of vision to say, Okay, if this is important of an Arduino, and we can see the rationale behind it, we're okay, just providing food, but let's make it more concentrated. How can we make sure that we add more benefit to the Muslim? Yeah. So it's not just mean add value? Present value? Yeah, so no doubt there's, there's, you know, value in just dropping off food and under law, the job is done. And, you know, when awarded for that, but how can we make sure that there's, there's more to it. And this is where the whole idea about around kind of school meals came around? We said that we want to be focused just on food. I think that was a big kind of
thing, right? In the beginning that, you know, what about water wells? What about medication? What about health care? What about shelter? Was this an emergency? You know, there's so many different things and and we were quite clear, that we wanted to focus in on and stay with,
with, with food and make sure that that was done properly before anything else was, you know, taking it.
And also then to make sure that because it's coupled up with, with education, which you you open with education and food, right. Food we see as our guests, our, our indoor our capitalist is it's it's there as a as a means to something far greater, which is education for us. Just very quickly, if you look at
the stats that are there on the Muslim countries that, you know, literacy levels, and you look at the poverty, you'll find very, very, you know, easy to read data, right. That was it. Yes, everywhere you will find a Muslim country where the literacy levels are low, you will find that poverty is high. And the opposite is also true. So this was something for us to see. Okay.
Forget for now we're not looking at today, tomorrow, we planted a meal we're looking at, okay, 50 years, 100 years time?
How do we need to support our Omar today to make sure in 1500 years time, we're not in the situation that we are now where we're bottom of the pecking order when it comes to education when it comes to poverty? You know, we, you know, there was a good question, and almost a must be once. And she said, How can you only work in Muslim countries? I said, Have you seen the Muslim countries? Like, if you want to look at the top 10 list, your top 10 of the countries where the poverty is rife, you will look at See, do you want to get Palestine you wanna look at Yemen, which country you want to look at the top candidates? that's normally probably barring some of Venezuela, maybe everything else is, is
Now, is this for Israel? It was it was important to see okay, how do we get out of this, and naturally, inshallah, we will get that through education. So that's, that's, I guess how we are, we start to shape and I guess what we were trying to achieve. Allah bless you. I mean, that was inspirational. So just to summarize some of what you've shared, basically, I've understood from it, that it you actually have a proactive vision to your effort, because food is a means towards achieving something. It's not a case where you've gone on a war against hunger, which would be a reactive effort to a circumstance and situation, but it's a proactive effort, because you are
looking at the long term benefits. I mean, as the saying goes, if you want to change what you know, one year plant rice, if you want to change 10 years, plant trees, if you want to, if you want to change 100 years plant schools, so education definitely is the long game. And food is a means towards achieving that because when children are well fed, then they're able to study, they're probably able to remain in school as well. So that that is phenomenal, that I think that that is unique, that is unique. And ask Allah subhanho wa Taala to bless you in that also the basis for it. I mean, I would say I would say the basis could have a reactive realm. And as we've seen, it's been
transformed into a productive realm. But you referring to it in the Quran, for example, where those in the Hellfire they were asked, Why are you here? What got you here? And they said, We never used to pray. And we never used to feed
the impoverished and he let him know communism. Mussolini alumna Kanata miskeen we never prayed and we never fed the impoverished so in an in an effort it's as if you guys are
you guys are ensuring safety from the Hellfire by taking care of the effort of feeding others Marshall metaphorical and that's that's phenomenal. Just Aquila here while she was speaking
the chairman Mashallah brother for us was was was nothing and also making some notes. Allah bless you both. I'm going to bring you in brother for us. Mashallah Jani? You know, it was very inspirational, hearing what we heard about the basis for charity, right, and what it's achieving, and the, the vision that it has.
Cherish right as a charity is the part of the charity sector, and this sector has been maligned in the media, right? Because mostly because of transparency. And transparency really, is something the fix specialists, the general public.
And even those commenting, you know, on the social media scene, this is what they've been calling for. I personally think people desire transparency, over even, I mean, sometimes, you know, some charities say, you know, we prefer putting out a message that gives the donor, the idea of perceived impact of the charity, but I think
transparency leads to them, having a internal feeling that, you know, the charity will be impactful. So transparency is definitely something that has an overwhelmed sort of calling from the specialist as well as the general public. Now, given that a charity is an agent, it's a proxy between the donor and the receiver, the charity is the middle party. In this chain of events. How important do you consider transparency to be and what is charity? Right, done to
serve this particular concept? I think it's the most important thing. And it's something that I've been banging on about for some time, in the organization. So there's a number of things that we we will implement in order to achieve that,
interestingly, was the guy who was talking I, what he was explaining was part of what inspired me to jump on board back in 2014.
And, and that one and desire not just for the dignity of charity, but also how it was, you know, how we were going to fulfill this vision.
So some of the things that we do.
First and foremost is the
Due Diligence that we will do on the on the partner that we have on the ground. So we'll take out, you know, we've got various measures that will go through checks and balances in order to ensure that that partner is the right partner for us. And then we're required, we'll go on to the, onto the field and see for ourselves. I recall, I think he was back in 2015.
I had never been on the field, right, I come on board as a trustee, and
was in a meeting with with these guys, I think it was such a massive comeback, I can't recall. But I'm going to come back from the field.
And was giving was relaying the story about what happened, and was explaining the cost of a meal.
And that meal, I think, forgive me for the exact figures, but let's just say it was 29 pence.
And we were feeding so many people, right. And at that time, it was quite sterile for me and I, I didn't realize it at that point, when I returned, it became more present to me.
So john said to me, or whoever it was, you know, we can get the cost of a meal down to 19 Pence, or something like that was basically a reduction in in the cost of a meal. And as a consequence, we'll see save so many more people. But there may be other issues that may come about, for example, nutritional issues, and so on over the long term. So it didn't really dawn on me so much the impacts of it all I was seeing was that the saving of lives.
And so one of the guys, I think it was a Java resume at the time he was a trustee. He said, Well, you should go out and have a look.
And I said yes. And then that was right at the very beginning, beginning stages of us
working out how we were going to audit the process. So anyway, in the end, I ended up going out there, and I spent some time auditing what was going on. And and understood from that point, the importance of me being able to report back not just for the Charity Commission, but also for for the donors.
So they're seeing the transparency in play, and and who's conducting that type of audit.
But I think you know, the answer to your question, transparency, I think now is becoming increasingly important. People are questioning
where their money is going. They're influenced by stories in like you saying social media.
And so part and parcel of our due diligence processes is feeding into that transparency narrative, we want to show people that we're taking that seriously.
We have a very diverse board,
mouth, female backgrounds, and so on. We have people, we have someone in from finance, he was one of the cofounders of around bank. So, you know, we will constantly be be on top of the figures and the accounts and looking for efficiencies, we have someone who's from a school background, he's chairman of the school.
And so he is he's well aware of safeguarding someone who's involved in the tech industry. And again, she's bringing that skill set, and someone from his, uh, you know, international development experience.
We use, we draw on our skills in order to feed again, the narrative that we can then push out in order to show that that the skills are being applied in order to feed back to the donor that these are the measures were taken to enhance our transparency and what we're doing to ensure that the money that's going that's being given is actually going to where it's supposed to go.
Things like, for example, auditing our accounts, right, we've always had our accounts audited, you know, legally, you need to have turned over a million pounds to audit to mandatorily. Have your accounts audited, we've done this from day one. So some of these steps that we have done from day one, have been intentional to try and feed into that narrative. And I think in due course, you know, with technology, things like blockchain and stuff like that will enhance that transparency. People want to see that their 100 pound that they gave ends up in such and such as hands or what, you know, if there was a deduction, where's that gone? But yeah, I think it's critical. My personal view.
Yeah. I mean, it's, you mentioned blockchain is charity. Right. Looking into this currently, or
at least watching the evolvement of, of off the FinTech, you know, financial technology at the moment whether discussions happen.
At level a trustee level, I mean, we have someone from a tech background, I think there's the the tech is so much is that an infant stage at the moment, but I can see where that can be used and how that could Yeah, good.
It has been discussed in the sector. It is being discussed in the sector and blockchain is being discussed with
Everything now because of its decentralized nature, and like we said, transparency, the ledger is downloadable. It can't be I mean, it's very difficult to,
to manipulate. So you know, that will build trust and when trust is there, you know, how they say for example, in terms of social media content is king. I think in the charity sector transparency is king, the more transparent you are, the more you'll find people coming and especially, you know, from the Muslim perspective, it's within we've we've shed iron from the Quran is part of our therapy to give the issue is where do I give it? You know, I cannot tell you, Ramadan, ha, I'm busy with people chef, where can I give my money? Where can I get my money? You know,
people want people genuinely fear that, okay, we were taking care of this part of our of our faith, it's a pillar of Islam, and above the pillar, the southern part as well. But Subhanallah, what if we get to the fbm. And we don't, we don't find it. Now, many people don't know that as long as they took care of the data. In the best of ways, then if there is negligence from the person that data was handed to, or, for example, they gave it to someone who wasn't deserving of sadaqa was Allah this other part is done. Right. But not everybody knows that. So they genuinely feel the fear, that's a panel lie. And he, I don't want to be in a stage whereby I did all this and there's nothing
to show for it on the DSP. I'm just like, someone wants to go for Hajj, the biggest fear they have is coming back in the Hajj wasn't done properly, right journey of a lifetime. So it's these, these are the problems I guess with with blockchain. So we actually tested a
piece of software that was looking at implementing blockchain for the charity sector. So they were at the beta stage, we were just testing the the software to see if it would, would actually work. Now, I know what you're seeing that obviously, even if we get to the stage where you know, blockchain is available that it's, you know, it's available everywhere, and we can actually implement it, the one thing that we won't be able to do is check on the quality of the service. So for example, we will still know that 110 pounds moved from the Bradford Office of checks, right, UK went to, you know, charity partners office in Pakistan and the charge right Pakistan office went to
the third office in the local region, and then it was delivered to experts. And what we don't know at the end of that was what, what was the person who was receiving it? What was their nature? Were they deserving or not, like you mentioned, was the quality of the substance that they bought was of any use? Oh, no, for example, or the surrounding area, for example, you know, I'm a big fan of giving cash donations, wherever you are able to, because, again, it adds dignity and honor to the people that are there. They're able to choose what they want to feed their children, I suppose saying, this is where you have to feed your children. So there's always that sort of thing. But what
am I in a situation where there's no shops, for example, we work in third party centers, you know, there's nothing for four miles on end, you know, it's just not feasible for us to give cash donations. There hasn't been a notice of the reality there isn't this is the reality on the ground? That's
where we are, isn't it? So? Yeah, I mean, you'll find out a good point. And this is good. This is a good thing to highlight to any donor that is not just about transparency, it has to be transparency and impact. Now transparency, is a means towards having confidence that there will be impact, but it's not enough. It could be
perceivably, impactful from the stance of the donor, but there's still steps that need to be taken into consideration to understand whether that that that money actually serve the potential that Allah subhanho wa Taala blessed it with. I mean, such as what what do you do here? So Mashallah Annie for us has spoken about the transparency aspects, and you know, letting the donors know that we went there, and we saw what's happening and the money achieved x, y, and Zed. But I mean, in terms of transformation, because that's what impact is, right? So do you have some metrics whereby you, you, you're able to measure transformation, and then through that, you actually go back to the
donors and say, X amount was given? Okay. And this was achieved as a as a result of it. One of the questions that came in is related to the 100% donor policy. And this is a question that I had for you how effective is the 100% donor policy, because at the end of the day, I mean, if I donated 100 pounds, and not 80 pounds was used,
to achieve the objective of the 100 pounds, but it achieved it in a way that for example, is worth 120 pounds, I would prefer that as opposed to giving you 100 pounds and you achieving 90 pounds as a result of it or even 100 pounds, right? So since you you you brought it up, let's let's take this discussion now. what's what's the what's your understanding about the effectiveness of 100% donor policy in the sector? So sure, we're gonna get straight into the 100%
When the when the post went out, this was most of the questions.
You're gonna be talking about 100% on policy. So I think first of all, check that I don't have
I my personal views, I guess.
I'm not a big fan of the 100% donation policy and charges a workaround. And I'll explain why. I think more importantly,
I don't think that there's that they're doing anything wrong. Yeah. So I don't think there's a question about 100% donation policy versus, you know, somebody who's taking admin from the, from the charity, I don't think there's a right or wrong, but I think what we need to really look at is, you know, what do we actually want from the charities that we're setting up on moving forward? Like, is it sustainable? You know, can we actually grow our charities, because when you when you look at, like, the issues that we've had in the UK, and the kind of, you know, almost the dramas that that come out, a lot of them are to do with? Well, if they had put some money in the right place, or had
they invested in so and so. And, you know, we're always behind when it comes to governance, when it comes to transparency, and all these things, but all these things require some, some forms usually right. You know, when it comes to an even marketing and fundraising I know, I know, people look at that, and it's almost like the evil that they're in, in charities, yes, it has been abused, no doubt shape yet, some people have gone some charities have gone way overboard, and, and spent funds that, you know, there will be shy about talking about, you know, they will they know themselves. But we're talking about taking, for example, 10%. And saying that, we're going to use this 10% to actually
grow the charity in the way that, you know, for us to be gone, and I'm going to be gone and you're going to be gone. But the work that we have here, will it carry on or not. And that a lot of the especially in the UK, we have some fantastic examples of how, you know, there's, you know, organizations that have been going for hundreds of years. And a lot of that stuff is because they have spent the right energy time and and funds on setting up the charity and making sure it can develop. So everything in retrospect, someone can argue and say we have charities that have been here a long time. And it's because they've been swiping a lot of the a lot of the
time. So let's take an example. Because I've got I've got an example for you.
I was thinking about how to kind of present this in a way that maybe it's a business model that somebody has, they could you could understand this. Let's say for example, we have 100 pounds to spend on social media. Let's not say 100 pounds, let's use something real and let's say 10,000 pounds, we have 10,000 pounds, and we're going to do an advertising campaign. Not charge right let's assign says listeners are doing it. Well.
And for us has two options and other options, he can employ somebody a junior level mediocre, he's gonna pay him 1000 pounds and give him 9000 pound budget to actually spend on advertising. So he's hiring this guy who's gonna cost him 1000 pounds, and he's gonna give him a 9000 pound budget. Now, and the second option is he's gonna hire somebody who is going to give 7000 pounds to as a fee, and he's only going to give him 3000 pounds. Okay, so this is the way that a lot of time we look at the charity sector we're looking at, okay, you know, they've taken this much admin and how much have they spent on welfare.
And there's no reason why the person who you've given a 7000 pound fee to ward live you better results.
He knows what he's doing, he'll make that 3000 pound goal so far, that you'll be able to get better results, even though it looks like I'm paying this man.
You mean, for example, I took 3000 from the from from the donated funds, I gave it to a person and through his effort, I gained another five or 8000 pounds. Right? Well, we'll take the scenario
for example, a pound, okay. And if you purely use that pound, like for example, you serving meals to schools, for example, so you use that pound pod to buy meals, but by doing so that way, you can only put for example, provide two meals for a pound. But by taking 20 p for example, from
the pound you able to provide three meals. This is this is more impactful. Right? So
is this is this practical? I mean, on a practical scale.
Is this an experience that you've experienced? Yeah, I think the probably bull[???]ting as soon as we started, I think the first question was, you know, is charged by UK going to be set up as a zero 100% donation policy type charity, and that was back in 2014. I remember having lots of those conversation people saying if you would say apply that you will get so much more donations. I don't think that's necessarily true. But I think the problem we've got in our communities now is that's the only thing that matters to us. So I'm not bothered about how good your well is. I'm not really bothered about how you know when you deliver the project. I'm not worried about how good your school
is, how much of my money have you spent on it
How much have you taken for? I mean, that's the only question. So I would prefer to give my money to 100% charity, because I know 100% of it was going to the, to the cause, essentially, whereas I know, if I give it here, they're going to take, you know, 10 pounds of my 100 pounds, we might be actually getting a better result here, because they're going to look after the children better the food might be better the, you know, the governance will be on point they'll make sure they've, you know, they've crossed and you know, teed all the different things that they need to do, and they've got a good sort of safeguarding policy in place, etc, etc, etc. But we'll, we'll look at any of that. And,
and for us knows, especially in the UK, we get those text messages, probably about a week before orthodontia, which goes to destroy the reputation over the charges. And the most bizarre one, we have check, which, you know, this just shows the kind of level that a lot of people are, unfortunately, that we had a situation where somebody was comparing, I think this was the year before last somebody was comparing the income of the charity, the annual income of the charity, versus how much they spent on salaries. And then for me, it was like, what, there's no color, you know, this,
actually, you know, compare, but that was something that we're using to say, which of the 10 top charities, I mean, you know, you're highlighting, you're highlighting a need them for the charity, because what you're telling me is, transparency isn't enough. I need to be transparent. But I also need to show impact, I think is, I think there's also another factor in his education. There's a couple of other points, like, for example, we generally as people are lazy. And so there's a feelgood factor. And so I'm giving you my money. And I think that's it, I've done my thing, and I think is going to be delivered. So there isn't, there is some of that, which is a personal
responsibility on. I'm going to say it may be unpopular to say, but partly possibly the donors responsibility for that. But there is also sort of the, the requirement for education, which feeds into transparency. Okay. So if we were to educate people more about how that money is being used, then that feeds into people's understanding, and then their acceptance. And I think if they understood properly, what 100% model actually meant, in reality, and how unsustainable that is, people would shy away from it. Yeah. And I think that's the responsibility that we have, as within the sector, is when we're putting that message out, not that we're there to trounce other charities,
it's just, it's just educating people, that that's the reality of it. Going out on the field, you'll see projects which have been abandoned, because people can't sustain them. And so that in the long term does more damage to the beneficiary. Yeah, so yeah, no, I mean, you what you. So I mean, we agree that this is needed, because it's not an either or, and unfortunately, perhaps, is through a knee jerk reaction, because of,
you know, the social media campaigns highlighting abuse by some charities with regards to receive funds. So the knee jerk reaction of that is holla. So I'm going to go for a 100% donor policy. But what we've also seen is there are charities who do take on the 100% donor policy as a mandate, and they collect funds based on that, but then because of that, they don't have the operational ability to deliver on that money. So then they partner with another charity, right? And that other charity has to take operational costs. So in some capacity, they can come to be report to their donors, that you know what 100% of the money came, sorry, 100% of the money that came in went out. But in
reality, how it was executed, on the way out, is, you know, doesn't really reflect the 100% donor policy, because it's about sustainability as well. So I think transparency, trans sustainability, but as for offset, and that's what we were saying, but he highlighted it, using the right term, it's about educating the sector. Now, for us, I mean, I would ask you, because you had the you had the chairman level, so you have the helicopter view, you know, of charity, right? And perhaps some of the activities of this third sector. How much education are the charities doing? You know, enough, nowhere near enough, nowhere near enough? You know, you know, when we talk about these stories, and
every Ramadan, there's a story, there's a break, right, and there's some sample charities getting in the neck.
It's because we love, we'd love the horror story, right? We love the horror show. That's that's just the way human nature works. And it feeds into social media. And then if it goes viral, you know, it doesn't matter how much good work that charity may have done.
But I think if we're going to sit in a position of saying that we're going to collect your money, and we're going to distribute it and we're going to fulfill some of these, some of these causes, religious, moral, whatever, wherever you want to take it, right. If you're gonna sit in that position, then you also have to take the responsibility of educating if there's a gap, and it's not being done, because if it was being done, then
100% policy wouldn't be as popular.
And people need to understand also, charities,
charities are akin to a business, they are a business, right? Or at least the way that you operate and should be no different to the way that you operate a business. And, you know, you wanting to get efficiency, you want it to get maximum output. And, you know, you want him to do it, not damaging your brand, or, you know, the industry that you work in, and so on, and so forth. So if if part and parcel if you were to take that on board, if you were to operate in that way, and then you see within your market space, there is a massive deficit here, then you should fulfill that,
if you need to spend money to raise money, so for example, marketing, then there has to be done. If you need to spend money in order to get to an obscure place that needs to be done, you know, that needs to be explained to people. As soon as I sit down with when I'm when I'm doing fundraising, I sit down with a donor, and I explain that to them. They get it it's like a it's like a light bulb moment. Of course, it's Yeah, but that goes to show you that that information is not there, or it's not there and enough.
It's not been publicized enough. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I mean, obviously, then the challenge would be would be put across to the charity sector that look, you know, like to cherish right in the UK. So for example, what could happen before Ramadan is have a Juma campaign whereby hook was done highlighting these realities of you know, the benefits of 100% on the policy, the drawbacks of it, the importance of being educated about not only associating your charity with transparency, but also impact that sometimes ATP on the pound gets you a higher impact, then one pound on the pound actually does, right. Also, we know that the mandate from it isn't the shehryar because they surely
are permitted, uses a car to look after the sucker, right? So we know that there's a car collector would go and collect animals, he would collect gold, he would collect silver, he would collect that which was the cuttable. And then he was bringing it back through the deserts to Medina, right, there's desert bandits in the desert, the animals need to be fed, there's wild animals, the animals, the animals need to be protected, the gold needs to be protected, the silver needs to be protected. So the sheriff's are permitted. Those being hired as guards for this occur, those being hired as shepherds to look after the stock those being hired to audit this account on its way so that what
was received makes it safely and correctly does the car can be used for it. So here we see the car is being used to protect the car, that in the absence of using the car to protect this occur, you lose mosaica, if that makes sense. But now that we talking is like I should bring subject very quickly and swiftly in. Because we do have a question about this subject, you know, that the cat is the right of Allah, as well as the recipients of Zika. Right. And we could say that this whole discussion of 100% on a policy versus, you know, no 100% donor policy, this fits within the realm of sadaqa. Okay, people are more comfortable saying, well, sadaqa I'm not too fussed when it comes to
zeca. Look, I know, you can't speak on behalf of other charities and there's a cap policy, but with regards to charity, right. What does charity I do with seca? And how would a zeca payer to charity right know that there's a cat reach those that it was intended for? In the intended manner?
So how can we? I mean, there's a lot more than I want to say about the 100% donation policy. But let's let's come back to the now you've asked this question, the more sort of facets to the whole discussion, we are shipped with with the cart handler we, we collect the cart is not a huge portion of our donations, although we spend all of the ticket that we receive or directly on food itself.
And I guess that's just as being in a privileged position. That's not to say that in the future, it might be, it might be different. But for now, we have the policy where n is a card that we receive is directly spent on food items and sell so we won't spend that on on any UK administration, we won't spend that on even the administration abroad because there's lots of activities happening there. So we're paying for, for example, a warehouse rent or paying for salaries for people to drop off food or we're paying for any other item, under the entire capital that we have is is really spent on on food items itself. Of course, you know, there's in the future if, if the count is
higher, and there's issues with that, then we will review the policy. And that's why I don't want to say at this moment in time that that's how we're going to operate and operate for the long term. But I guess that's how we're using the docket right now. And obviously we would stick within that that year. So at the end of Ramadan, we normally calculate all this accountable received when we received it, and then we'll ensure in turn that is spent
by the following Ramadan
I think that's, that's been fairly straightforward for us. And I guess the other thing with this moment in time is that
you know, the way the way that even though we're talking about is 100% policy, like is all spent on food. So essentially is, is 100% of your donations essentially are going to
two food items. So
that's, that's better than the 100% policy, because he is directly being spent just on food as well. But I mean, I mean, you would say that is 100%. policy, because 100% will be spending on the courage and the packaging and the, okay.
Okay, here is spent.
There's a car is used on the cost of getting the food across as well. Usually, typically word right. So that mean, when you say, charge, I spent 100% of this account on food currently, meaning everything related to the purchase of the food, the prep of the food, delivery of the food, not just on food items themselves. So on milk, on, on rice, on bread, on lentils on those items, not the preparation, not the cooking, not the not all the new things in German. Alright. So where do people find out about this subject? Because I don't few people know this about charity. Right.
This blesses chaussure.
getting educated the sector check, I just want to go back to the 100% policy. Right, I can see,
you can see
it, you have something to say Go ahead.
I think again, I'm in no way shape or form saying that, you know, 100% policy, or a charity is not as good as a charity that's taking donations. I'm simply looking at the long term sort of impacts. For example, do we want the best talent in the charity sector? Of course we do. Yeah, we can't get away with and it's the same with like, for example, olmesartan that we want, we want the best demand from the having memorize, you know, mahadi and having it as a x, y, and z, and then we want to pay him less than a cup drive. It's exactly the same thing. We want the best talent, but we don't want to pay for it. And then that's why the charity sector is suffocated. Right. We don't have the best
creative people. We don't have the best, you know, fundraisers, we don't have the best, you know, managers and senior stuff to do anything. We don't have the best accountants or finance people. You know, we
I don't think
appreciate that a charity needs.
All these personnel, like the personnel you've mentioned, forget about the best. They don't even appreciate that. It's that it's needed.
It's testimony Sorry, it's testimony to the discussion we had about education.
Yeah, absolutely. I think fundraising a marketing, especially in the charity sector is almost seen as a dirty word like, stuff, although you spend this on marketing and fundraising. Whereas it like I said, it's essentially your model, like take away the, you know, all the bits, you still need to operate as a business, you still need to have an accountant, you still meet our lawyers to advise you on, you know, if you're launching in a new country, you need to have you know, people that know about those things to be able to advise you whether you should go in or not. Or these are the right partners, let's do the DVD on it, you know, there's so much to be to be discussed before you even
enter into a country or enter into a partnership, you know, your contracts and the title, you're not tied. And we saw like the failings in those things will lead to embarrassment do lead to a lot of, you know, loss of funds, and whatever. Whatever else. I think that's the that's the first thing that if you do if you do have that policy, you have less funds to spend on bringing in the right caliber of people that can hopefully, you know, make sure that the charity is here for the long term. Secondly, when we're looking at, and I guess the question usually is, and then I guess what you tend to easy earlier, about people asking you about where should I spend? Or where should I give my my
funds? And I think that's an important one because usually I get the question. I used to get the question, which are the good 100% charities I can donate to the way they discounted. Everybody else. It was just like we should the good 100% was I can I can look up. So once you get to that stage unless it sounds sorry to interject tells you a lot which are the good 100% charities, which means they are the mind of the question. They are 100% charities that are not. Yeah. And that's that's the interesting sheets issue. If you take out all the other charities and just leave the 100% ones that how would you decide on which one to give your money to because you still have the same conundrum
right? You have 100% across the board. Now what makes them different? I think that's the crux of the matter with the Muslim charity sector that first of all, we're not focused enough. Right? We are doing everything that's under the sun. So we obviously know that there's this marketing lead charities and there's programs that charity is a program that charity looks at the world and says you know we can make a difference in days.
particular country, by doing this particular thing, let's go out and fundraise for it.
I guess marking it, charity will think, Oh, this is in the news right now, we should be able to raise funds and go to a project. And it may be different. A lot of charities will have a mix of those two things. But they'll be doing the kind of fact finding at the same time to be doing the marketing. But but that's just one, one level, right, you're looking at, you're looking at those charities. And unfortunately, unfortunately, some of those hundreds of charities and I've had conversations with some of those brothers in the past, is that you are forced into that corner where you have to fundraise in an emergency, otherwise, you won't be able to survive, because you won't
get gifted, you won't be able to get the numbers and you won't be able to pay your staff and pay the rent and do currently the rest of it. You mentioned Gift Aid. We will take that a little bit later. But something that caught me caught my eye in the discussion
you mentioned focus, you mentioned focus. And I want to bring for us also into this one, because this is one of the questions that that came up, obviously, you guys are focusing on food. But we know there's many charities in the relief sector focusing on hunger management, right. And earlier, we highlighted that you guys are different to manage, meaning your operation is more productive. It's not about hunger management, it's about education. And I think that makes charity right unique.
When it comes to assessing
where you know, where the money goes, right, and the people that charity will support?
What criteria is is is is taken into consideration
that I've written for us in and then maybe you can join him.
I want to make one point before you go into this question. I want to go back to Josh's point, sorry, I'm dragging the conversation one place to another.
There was one other point I want to make about the 100% donation. And I know we're just banging this one, but the a lot of the charities focus on Ramadan only. Okay, so you have got a 12 month calendar, and revenues coming on one month. Hence, why the the need to have to push this message of 100%. And you know, and then it's appealing to people that maybe there is a God and so on. And they're thinking I need to get my 100% of my succoth across the line. And I think there needs to also be a change within the sector amongst all of us to ensure that there is a sustainable model over the 12 months as opposed to just the one. And I think once that change happens, and the
education, I think that's where we'll start seeing a shift. And that again, feeds into charities use it running their model more akin to a business because there's no other business in the world that survives off one month, even ice cream sellers, they get three months trade, you know, in the summer. So, you know, I think that that was I just wanted to make that point. I just I wrote it down earlier. We're just talking. Sorry, I'll go back to your original question. Because it's it's fundamental actually, you know, the fact that it's one month of the year that is it's it's sort of the planting and cultivation period. Really, you just got to 30 days when people give but obviously
suggest said that the most of what Charles Wright receives is sadaqa we think Ramadan is also a hotspot for sadaqa. I mean, normally people are looking at Ramadan to give this occur, correct? Yeah. So that's something I can touch on later. But just before you go on brother for us in terms of the criterion used by charity to select the partners that you work with or the the the end user association that you have to put a message out to our listeners that please feel free to ask any questions that you have. Brother Abdullah said it would be good if we had people who are pro 100% don't have policy
on board. Brother, Abdullah, please feel free to to play that role in the comments and inshallah we'll get your questions and your comments onto the screen and they can be discussed. Apologies for the forest, please go ahead.
Yeah, I think the question was aimed at the job, was it not? I'm gonna
throw him under the bus.
Get the executive guys in so go ahead.
Check it out. So for us because we're a we're a food charity. And secondly, where we're not and I guess this small sort of difference I guess. A lot of people will say that their their life saving, you know, the quality of life sailing were slightly different from a life changing. And for change to happen. We need a bit of time. I mean, we, I guess before even deciding on the country that we're going to work in forget the project we will take on a country perspective. So at this moment in time, for example,
To let the listeners know we're considering Malawi as a as a destination to, to start a charter project. So I went there in in December, just before the COVID outbreak, I guess, in Malawi. And, you know, why would we even consider Malawi in the first place. So we stood, we did some research into the countries that were, you know, will require assistance in the next couple of years, and the ones that are on the brink of making the change. And that's where we get involved. So we're not a charity that looks out, for example, emergency aid in the way that everybody else would do. We're kind of a charity that would, you know, let the dust settle. And then and then moving, I remember
having this a deep discussion with a brother from
Banda, actually, after the tsunami, with about a year and a half after tsunami, and I went to visit Indonesia, we were looking around some of the spaces. And he said that, you know, soon as the tsunami hit, there were hundreds of charities from the west that we're here to help and support. And he goes, you know, the place is flooded, you couldn't walk, you know, a couple of steps without the new charities office attend whatever it might be, obviously, a lot of them from the UK, from Australia, from Canada, unmedicated.
And ego six months went by, and, you know, you could count them on one hand, but everybody had left. You know, everyone knew emergency work. And then that's when the graft really comes into Now you try to develop communities and get them back on their feet, that's when a lot of charities left and kind of left those people on their own. And he said, lots of other sort of non Muslim charities from Australia, from from Indonesia, from Malaysia, for example, stepped in and they were, they were supporting. And I found that quite bizarre that obviously, the number, obviously, you will see a drop out because some people were there just for the emergency, but there was a huge number that was
dropping out. And for me, we see ourselves going in at that point. So you know, year one, year two, year three, when the country looks like or where do people look like that they're just about ready for change, or they can just about make out charts, right looks at implementing a project there to see how we get this community have an off their feet, and you know, back into, I guess, the rest of the world. So Malawi was an interesting one, because if you don't do that, it kind of gives you an idea of how we would approach it. So we will look first first, for example, like we need a politically stable country, where again, we're in it for the long term in Sudan. Now we've been
there for six years, and you know, a child receiving meal on the first day we started, the project is still receiving food now because it was a primary, starving. So I'm that we've seen a progress, right. And every time I visit, we can see the same child again and Mashallah they've, they've grown up now there's 213, children, we start with a 2014. So I'm glad we can see the progress.
And, and that's our promise that it's a regular meal, we take on the child and take on the responsibility, and we would go all the way, all the way through. And in Malawi, we'll be doing the same. So for us, our growth is very, very different. And that's again, why even looking at our accounts, it's very difficult to understand, you know, what we're about wellness, you know, the way that we operate, so for example, there was, again, one of those text messages that was looking at the income of that year versus how much they spent on welfare. So obviously, they spent,
and for us, you know, we've, we have a policy where, for example, we're not a charity that's going to go and build a school. And once the school is built, our hands are free, and we can walk away.
Every month, we increase our monthly commitment. So we've got one child, we've got a commitment of 120 pounds a year, we've got two children, we've got a minimum of 240 pounds a year. If you get that up to 1000, then we've got this commitment to get that up to 10,000. And humbler we're nearly close to 20,000. Now, there's a commitment times 120 every single time we take on another child. And that's the burden that's on the shoulders of the team to say, we've got to make sure by hook or by crook this money's in the bank, because we don't want to miss a single meal. So for us going into Malawi, well, first of all, we've got to make sure there's enough funds in the bank to be able to
pay all the entire phone, you know, the entire project for at least six months. Right? So first of all, we've got to have six months worth of funding in our bank account to be able to make sure we can pay for that. What we can't do is be you know, on knife's edge. So money comes in this month, and it pays for all school meals, and then we move on to the next one. We pay, we've obviously have to have because of the way that we are when it when a development charge is not an emergency. It's a type of charge. And so we've developed
as a discipline unit, because someone could say, Alright, Do you have money for five months? Are you going to are you going to exclude
exclude them just because you're lacking funds for one month, but I suppose that means that's where discipline comes in, and you don't cross the borders between reactive and proactive because the two different skill sets two different mindsets, even operationally they're different. And this is where charities sometimes get caught short because they try and cross the divide. And reactive organizations have been doing it year in year out. They are absolutely skilled to go in and respond to a disaster.
If a proactive organization decides to go in and do that they're going to spend funds more funds than required. They're going to create poor partnerships. They lack the expertise and necessary experience. And then it's a case of I was there because everybody was there. And impact, poor.
Return On Equity, poor donor confidence lower. So that's the discipline that you need. So it's good, it's good to know that you have that discipline, although I think you do have an answer. For me, if it's five months versus six months, I'm sure you have some contingency in the strategic planning for that situation. I mean, you've spoken to me in the past, and I've always told you, it's Allah who feeds these children.
It's Allah who feeds these children, we are not feed we don't feed them. The risk is with Allah. Allah subhanho wa Taala says, in the law, who have risen up through poverty, Mateen Indeed, Allah subhanho, wa Taala, he is the perpetual sustainer. And he sustains after sustaining, this is who he is Anahata. And all we're doing is trying to be part of the process to grab that edge along the way to be the means, through which Allah subhanho wa Taala gets that result to the people. And I've always said this to you that Don't feel shy asking. Because you're not asking for yourself, you, you ask, because the asking is a means. And the power of Allah is going to happen anyway, these people
are going to be fed. But the question is, how are they going to be fed? Are you going to be part of the solution? Or is someone else going to be part of the solution?
of solution? And I guess that's, that's always been key for us. Like I remember when when I first started off, it was, you know, it's quite intimidating, standing in front of people and actually asking for money, or even a one to one meeting, I'll get I'll do the whole presentation. At the end, it would be a bit of a struggle, say actually, actually, this is the money I need. And, you know, brother gave me some some advice, and I'll keep his good deeds hidden. In Shall I said, Well, look, as soon as the processor. Now the processor, no, one thing he would stand up on the member and say, you know, this is what we need. And he had the likes of Omar, another worker, that he had those
people right. And in on lower you have this is another when you need something because you're not asking for yourself. And this will I think that that was a bit of a mind change. But check this this, this whole idea about like even moving into these countries and looking at this from a perspective of why do we actually want to even do this work.
And for me, the you know, the crux of the matter is that in all of these issues, I think the person is at fault, he has a donor. Yeah. And that's a big statement to make here. So I'll just if I ever said that, before I dig my own grave.
Every single person wants feedback, every single person wants a video with their X, Y, and Z, everybody wants their name on a plaque, everybody wants all that stuff. And, and everybody at the same time was the charity not to take any money out of the money that they've given. So given 100 pounds, I want it all to go, but I want them somebody somewhere somehow paid for, you know, my photograph of my well or, you know, the upkeep of my web, or, you know, the maintenance, the report writing whatever else needs to be done in terms of feedback. Yeah. cycle that was that was the donor is a bit more, I guess, understanding of those situations, or actually says, Well, you know, for my
donation of 100 pounds, why don't you take 25 pounds towards your admin, and hopefully help and do X, Y, and Z and put 75 pounds towards one thing, I think that is the cultural change that will will inevitably mean that there's a change in the sector. Otherwise, I think we're going to be going around in circles because the organization's will change or less the habits of the donors change unless the donor becomes comfortable. So you know, why don't you take some of that donation, what I'm giving you 100, you know, 100 pounds, take some of it for the army purposes. So we have Miriam here on how Allah Allah bless her, she thinks that, but that's how we can set up right to cover the
expenses. So perhaps you'd want to explain that even with soda, soda people do. You know, they expect 100% donor policy on the setup as well.
Yeah, but you you mentioned earlier that even Allah subhanaw taala gave us 12 and a half percent right, for the person that is managing collecting of this account. So that's just forget words in my mouth. I didn't exactly say that said you
didn't say I didn't say that Allah did permit. Obviously the application of it application of it, there's many rules and requirements around it, which, which,
you know, we don't have the environment through which that can be implemented in the best way and that's we've seen the abuse, and it's not 12 and a half percent, some people have taken up to 45% 65% I've even heard a figure of 75% of Zakat being taken in certain countries, unfortunately.
But I hear you, I hear you, but I mean, what would you say to Maria, who says we give you a sidecar to to to give the donors that picture and that plaque etc, etc, etc. And what we ask is our
aka, I mean martial law charity, right? Everyone who's listening, yours, aka 100% is used for food. So it's used in something that all the scholars would agree agree to. So there's nothing to fear regarding your soccer.
But what would you say to her regarding her statement on sada
people expect 100% donor politicians at the time as well.
The people who just have that general statement, that doesn't matter if I give a 10 year old town or sad cow, the difference, I want all of it to go to the charity, we've had people that when they found out that we have this, this policy for physical market calculations is just to make sure that we were, we were, we were sending it the right way. But I think this is, again, it stems from when the when social media gets busy with charities, people mark this as Zika, exactly how to make sure that you know, you spent 100% of it goes to the needy, because maybe the child has got that policy. But again, check it's about making sure that we educate the people. My main thing is that if people
when they're choosing the charity that they want to give to they need to be comfortable. And they need to make lots of inquiries, and then settle with a charity humble, if you find a charity that you happy, you're happy with our vision, first and foremost, for what change, they will actually bring around like, and they just delivering the food pack and the same thing they're working on, you're happy with that? Or do you actually want to do something better in those communities? people that say, Sorry to interject, but this is something that I also say to the donors, because they always asked which charity Should I give my money to? And my question to them is, what's your vision
for your soccer? What's your vision for your startup? Right? What transformation Are you trying to achieve? What impact Are you trying to create? If you tell me that then at least we can narrow the scope and I can highlight you where to go ahead and put your money. But it's from a sense of your worship, this is the worship of Allah subhanho wa Taala it's from the excellence of your worship, that you are also vision based when it comes to how you
do you know where you where you put that money. Now, brother for us highlighted this, the charities network has businesses and, and and so on and so forth. But even the donor, even the payer, should should should think,
in this capacity. They should think,
you know, as a business, would I have this money, and I can create X amount of impact with it, right? Which charity is going to act on my behalf in creating that impact, then I can choose from the pool of charities, a selection of charities, and then I can look at the individual practices and and decide accordingly. And I want I want to say this as a complaint, right. But, you know, you spoke earlier about the relationship between the oma and the scholars. But when it comes to these things, everybody wants to put it on the head of the scholar Anisha Where should I put my charity? I think for me, right, but that's basically it, you you, you check, Where should I put my tie, you
tell me who actually put it now, it's heartwarming. This is good that people have that trust in the Imams and in the machinery, etc.
But if we look at the Sahaba, they also took ownership of these things. It wasn't a case where for every micro matter, they were turning to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam and saying spell it out for me, you know, to the umpteenth, you know, milli inch of reality, how I should go about doing this. So this is something that should be a takeaway for, for for for the public at large. Now, one of the things you mentioned, I know I'm cautious that time is, is moving on, but you highlighted something about the 120 pounds and the 240 pounds, that was phenomenal. 120 pounds to feed the child for a year.
Did I hear that? Right? I don't want to make this into a promotional charge. Right.
I have a question. I have a question related to that. Because I remember once at one of my courses you came and you pitch to the to the students there. And they would would there were two interesting points that would that I took from your presentation. And it's related to this. One of them was the ingredients that you think of when you are putting a meal together for a particular school. So you look at Sudan, you look at the requirements, and you look at the ingredients that suit them. Pakistan, is the new requirements may be different. Also, you put into the scale of considerations, the fact that it is education, you're trying to achieve education from it. So you're thinking about
which meals which which you know, formulates a balanced diet that aids education, this is number one, number two, you spoke about the price of the meal and how you managed to bring it down. And I think this is worth mentioning here for for for the listeners out there. Could you touch on these two points, please? Yes, it was a long time ago, my first shift when you were teaching that course. But the two things share. First of all, what goes into a meal. This has been important from his right from the beginning. You're working with children and if you treat those children as your own, then there's a very unique way that you need to make sure that you provide those meals. So we will
look at the categories that
Other food groups that we want to provide food to in that community, and then look at local flavors and tastes and make sure that we can provide something appropriate. So the first thing is that we don't provide meat or chicken in any of our any of our meals. So this was a discussion, I think, when when one for us was there that we were having about, you know, whether we should have a meal ready to pencil, we can bring it down to, you know, 18 pens on 19 pens, or should we go up and, and provide me chicken, and it can be 65 pens and 70 things. And then we went for the middle ground, you know, we said, you know, we don't want to provide me and chicken but at the same time, we don't want
to cut corners and not give the people is their right, essentially.
So we opted for the middle ground. The middle ground for this is to make sure that first of all is something from, there's a cow item. So there's rice, there's bread, there's, you know, noodles, or something of that description, that's, that's in the meal. And again, to local tastes. So in Sudan, we give bread in Pakistan, we give license to a party, for example. And then we would look at protein. So the best form of protein for us is beans, lentils, egg, for example, we do an egg sandwich for one of the days. And we use that as the main source of protein. So I guess as far as we as we possibly go, I guess, and everything else, then we'll get we'll get usually a form of
lentils or beans or food, etc.
Then just products is it input, you send it across or local?
locally sourced? So again, this is? Oh, economy as well? Yeah, absolutely. This is my vision of making sure that we can grow the local economy, sometimes it's cheaper actually, to bring in food from Egypt into Sudan than it is to look, source locally, especially where we, where we were, but it's better for us to source it locally, because again, it's helping the economy, people will see that that China has some presidents and they're doing this good work, etc, they will build their own relationship with the school and you'll find that you know, locals will now come in because they know that some work happening here, they'll drop off a sheet, for example, on a Friday and say, you
know, this is for a gift for the for the students and the students will help me with their with their lentils at the same time. So I'm glad it's adding value to that space.
And I think then the question, I guess, we obviously add minerals and vitamins and iron. So we do that through tomatoes, to
onions, etc, etc. And any spices that we can get. But then the main other discussion, I guess, which was about you know, about a year in that we started, how was about calcium was a calcium was one of the big groups and it was missing, we weren't able to get it through. And humbler, we made the decision to add milk to every single school meal that we were providing, at the time, which was an enormous cost, but we felt it was the right thing to do. So obviously, it's not a question of the cost of the meal goes up, because to be honest, we could, you know, hunted out, you know, last year, we provided around 10 million meals, we could easily double that, if we just got rid of the milk,
which looked better on paper, which is easier for the donor to digest, etc, etc, we can bring the cost of, you know, an annual fee of 420 pounds down to 80 pounds, if we just got rid of it. Like in Pakistan, I think the cost of milk is the same as the rest of the meal.
Right. But Hello, we haven't done that we've stayed strong and said, Look, we want to provide you even in the desert of Rajasthan, like you know, it's in the middle of nowhere else for out for any from any kind of real, or eco any community, but they received milk there on a daily basis.
I mean, in Pakistan will be higher than the cost per million Sudan naturally. Yeah, there's obviously differences. And again, even with each school, there's a difference on how long it takes us to get there, how many cooks they need, and you know how many students are in the school, all those things make a difference, obviously, but we've calculated as an average of about 120 pounds for a child for an entire year, that's based on around 22 days of schooling for the time, per month, right. And the reason we can get the cost down, you know, we said we focused on food. And then we said we're gonna be focused even further and not do disaster relief, and just do, you know,
development. So that gave us even more focus. And then we go into a community and we work with that community for a period of time, which means that, again, we're able to buy in the scale that we're able to buy humbler because of you know, where they're at, and we're growing the projects as much as we can. So, you know, Sudan Suhana, we started in 2013. With, with 14, sorry, with 213 children, I remember, at humla at the moment, we're probably close to 9000 children that get a meal every single day has
nothing to do martial law, and a day.
That's a mixture of one and three meals. So usually a child that receives
just education then can go back home. So they're going to a primary school or secondary school, they receive a meal a day, and those that, for example, are in orphanages or in
some of these mock ups they have children of coming from from other parts of Sudan, for example, to live at this place where they learn
Put on for example, then we would provide three meals to them because we're their only source of
food. And I guess in some of those places, we've tried to give some of the responsibility to the community, because what we don't want is convenience of all, thank you very much for that you can take care of these kids now. And we can go to sleep because we don't have to do anything. So like, for example, in Bangladesh, we've got a girls only
orphanage. So these are the fingers that came in. And we thought that they were, they were the age where they could be vulnerable. And they didn't have a guardian with them. So maybe they lost their parents while they were coming into, into Bangladesh. So we've taken these girls, and there's about 100 of them, we've put them into a an orphanage. And we've done all the safeguarding and we made sure that there was somebody and sisters looking after the entire place, and there was some, some guards, but the idea was that, you know, there was somebody locally who wanted to sponsor, you know, a meal for them,
to sponsor me, and we'll do the other two, because what we don't want to do is say, it's easier for our papers if we do $3 million for it. But you know, we want the locals to take as much responsibility.
I mean, I can tell you I don't, I honestly feel that many of your donor base don't know this. This is impact, we're talking about long activity. So you're looking at sustainability, looking at taking the children through until they can stand on their feet. That's number one. Number two, talking about growing the local economy, you look you're talking about empowering individuals, so shop owners, etc, then you're talking about inspiring individuals, people coming in who had cattle and dropping off an animal for you to,
you know, to, to slaughter and distribute the meat amongst the students of the school so that they they do have meat, right? This has to be this is this is what we call xikar being impactful or sadaqa being impactful. And people have to see challenges, right in my estimate, based on what you shed
more than just
a charity that feeds meals or just feed schools, they have to see beyond even the feeding of the schools, you have to promote this. Now, I don't know, if you successful in doing what you've done in Sudan in other places, if you said Pakistan doesn't have an economy close to the place that you're feeding, because you're out in the desert, but Malawi, perhaps this is an area that you could probably replicate the Sudan model, and empower the local economy there, help people start up shops, buy from them so that you bring business to them through that you lower the cost of food. And slowly but surely, you know, as you bring a positive environment, it's infectious. It starts spreading, and
you inspire people to think and let me tell you people in Africa, very talented people I grew up there. Right.
It's just a case of opportunity.
Yeah, absolutely shaken. And the thing here is that you, you, you really know the scale of the benefit that you're adding to the community.
That, you know, I'm fascinated myself, sometimes when you know, we're in a region, you know, we're really penetrating a certain like, you know, for example, Bangladesh is a good place to do that. You know, I always say that, you know, we've got this policy, unfortunately, where, you know, unless somebody is dying, we're not willing to help them, you know, like, we will see normal animals see a dying child from Yemen. And that obviously works on the heartstrings and has worked for all of us, right, we see that we think, you know, we have to do something, a moral obligation. But when we don't have that we're not looking at, for example, development, right. And one of my favorite
projects is actually in Bangladesh. It's in Dhaka, in the slums of Dhaka and humbler we, in this, you know, I don't know how many million people that live in those slums. And but we have, you know, an operation we just looked at one side of, of the slums and we're in a very small area of, of Dhaka, and there's Hamlet we've got now I think, close to 30 schools, small schools that are dotted around the areas and you know, they're they're kind of made of just a steel structure as a teacher and maybe a 40 children and they're dotted around the storm. And
I remember I got a call from Machakos our country manager and he said, I've got some good news. And we typical charkie person share, I thought, Mashallah, we must have a new dawn in Bangladesh or something. And he's actually located it wired neurons. Yeah.
He said check the, we,
we were working in a certain area and in the area, so upon law, there were there were men that would come to the area and they would try to buy young girls from families.
This was it was a common problem in this area in in in the area that we were working under, we have 30 or so schools and not just that one region, and a fantastic partner environment.
he said that obviously
The only reason they would sell their children is because they thought, you know, I'm not going to be able to feed the rest of them. So they would sell one of the girls so they could carry on providing food for the other six members of their family. Yeah. And usually it's woman with, you know, a typical story. Unfortunately, women with you know, no, no husband, no, no kind of male and very young children.
And he said, the good news is that they haven't been spotted for a few months now that we went to the community, we told the children, we spoke to the parents, and this was an ongoing process with the parents and look, allies providing for your children through these means of charge right at the school now. So don't be ever forcing yourself into that situation where you have to do this. And I, I just remember thinking to myself that day shake that. You know, what, there's so much hair and just this is one thing that the benefits of providing food on and again, this is a long term investment if we had gone there, and he's provided food for Ramadan, and on a day we said Salaam
Alaikum, I don't think it would have the same response. And the fact that we've been there for four or five years now would mean that those people that were looking to do this, this Haram is evil. You know, they got disheartened and they move to another region or maybe left this space altogether, but it protected the whole community because he had this you know thing about having
Allah bless you and bless the team. Allah bless you and bless the team. I mean,
we have read the cache of shaviro Masha Allah, who is who is listening in and read the cache Shabbir is the CEO of Muslim aid, martial law. And he's been in the sector for a long time. He's a wealth of experience. And,
you know, martial law of balance as well. I know him personally, he's he's put up a comment here saying the important question is about the overheads.
And he's speaking about this relation to the 100% donor policy discussion that we had rather, the question is we should be asking is, what am I getting for my money? And we did highlight this and definitely agreed. You mentioned another comment here, which is important. And it's something that we've also concluded that we do need to educate the donor in asking the right questions, and by always definitely talking about the sector you are in. And obviously, I appreciate that this needs funds. But definitely, there has to be a long term game with regards to
this point here. So that at least we get over it. Least we get over it. And the education, knowledge is power, we got to get over the points so that we can we can move off to the side like every Ravana already, you know, you know, in your mind. next few weeks, the same questions are going to come in Ramadan, you're going to see the same things, then it's going to be in forward, it's going to be fitna, then you're going to be responding to people and trying to, you know, bring some light to the darkness. And then you're a bad day is being affected because you're trying to worship Allah, but you're on the phone, and so on and so forth. So definitely, if ownership could be taken by the
charities with regards to this, this would be phenomenal. Now we have gone over for time. But one of the questions that did come in quite the quite a few questions, and it's something we we I did promise I'll get answered here. And I'll ask for the for us to come in. That is the question related to the Gift Aid. Because this is another one where people say, well, you're getting Gift Aid. So you know what? Cover your expenses from the Gift Aid. Oh, educate us about Gift Aid. Firstly, what is Gift Aid? How does it work? And if it was that simple, it was just that simple. Gift Aid is the 25% that the government will give us back in accordance with the purse the donors status, okay. So the
problem with this is that if I guess if you look at it high level without considering the realities, or the nuances of it, is that you might look at the total turnover of a charity, and then do a simple calculation 25%. So the charity is taking this a million pounds, and therefore the Gift Aid is therefore naturally 250,000 that should be enough to run your charity. But the reality is not that because some of the donations are coming in from overseas investors who are not UK taxpayers, and therefore not illegible, some are coming from corporates.
And so and some may even be coming from UK donors who are not eligible for
for Gift Aid, because they've already exhausted it. Yeah. So so in reality, you don't the calculation is not linear, you're not getting the exact amount. Yes, we do get Gift Aid. And yes, we will. We will lean on that in order to cover the admin expenses. But it doesn't it's not a natural correlation. And unfortunately, again, it's the education of it because people are making that assumption that we've got all you must have that much money in your account, and therefore Where's your money going? Yeah, so yeah.
It's usually a myth. Yeah. And there's a charity, 5 million, 4 million, 3 million. So they have this amounted to spend 25% of that that is a myth, then in reality, it's a myth in that the calculation being being being assumed is wrong.
I think again, it's like, again, it feeds into transparency, doesn't it? Because if you tell the donor look, actually, we only got 50,000, from Gift Aid this year, we only got, you know, whatever that figure is, then and you and you, you know, you demonstrate your operating costs and why you got those operating costs, the donor will appreciate it. I'm convinced the donor will accept
it, that I've been at these charity fundraising dinners, right? You know, and they cost money to put on and they have a function and all the rest of it, and so on. And the question is asked over and over again, and when you sit down, and you explain it to someone, you know, that's what the point when the discussion then starts, because they'd already made these assumptions that, oh, you must have this in your bank account because of Gift Aid, and you're spending all this money, and your CEO is taking this much money and all this kind of stuff.
So yeah, you have been bred the cashier was put up a comment, and he said, the mentality for a Muslim to even depend on Gift Aid to cover costs. Yeah, I mean, so you know, he's highlighting this reality that a lot of education has to go into the space.
how, you know, we're not saying abuse does occur funds, but we saying that sometimes if you use some you can create greater impact, it's about impact and focus on impact.
And I guess this, you know, brings us to another discussion, which maybe we should have, for another time, the importance of work and endowments, in empowering the sector in this space, especially with the discussion related to longer activity. Also, we spoke earlier about bringing FinTech into it. FinTech has, you know, ways to or, you know, it will provide opportunities to raise funds outside of Zika and set up a crowdfunding and so on and so forth and make it more
lucrative for a charity less expensive to do so as well. more transparency in
the donor experience as well. These are areas that need to be looked at one question that does come in with regards to the Gift Aid from the donors is that some donors, if they qualify for Gift Aid, then the government also gives them back
money for the donation that they gave for the soccer that they gave for the sadaqa that they gave, right. So somebody gives us an amount, the charity gets an amount, but they also can claim back an amount because clearly, the way it's been designed that the government appreciates nonprofit activity from its citizens, because they appreciate the impact that it has, that perhaps tax will bring about, right. So give people back their tax, give them the tax credit, so pay them back, to encourage them to, to sponsor that soup kitchen or to look after that nonprofit sector of society. Now from an Islamic perspective, and this is for me to answer the question is, when we get that
money back, do we have to pay zakat on it?
The simple answer to that is no. You don't pay zakat on that money unless you holding that money again for 12 months. If you hold that money again for 12 months, then it's the cattle. But you don't pay zakat on it because you're not getting back your sudden, you're not getting back to South Africa, you're getting back money which you paid to the government and now it was in their ownership. And they're paying it back to you because of an activity that you did that they said if you do it, we will we will pay you from us basically. Okay, so there's no Zakat on that. But there is the chi if you hold that amount for the period of 12 months. So it's as simple as that. I hope
that's clarified a lot of
misconceptions regarding this. It's been phenomenal for the for us and brother Sajad, I've benefited a lot I know the donors did. And I've learned a lot to be honest.
If I was, I mean, obviously, I have background knowledge to the charity, way before such as I got involved, and I think yourself as well. For us, Allah subhanho wa Taala blessed me to be one of the founding fathers that you know,
at the interim
stage when the idea was, was being born.
So I do have background knowledge, but I will be you know, as honest as I can be. I sincerely feel that if I didn't have this association with the charity, but heard what I heard today, I'd been inspired to, to pass on my funds, especially given my ethos as a donor, I promote this don't help people in a way that chops them at the knees, you know, help them to empower them. And I have had this, I've had this that somebody had the need, they would ask them to do some work for them and pay them double the amount, right, or 75% more than they would get for for that work normally. So this way, you don't give them the the handout kind of mentality, you empower them. They feel like they
did honest work, and they earn from it. So I'm a big supporter of that, that we, our sadaqa should be used to empower people, not to make them dependent on us that when we out of that space, they fall flat on their face, and they have no way to look after themselves, their families and we create a bigger problem in the long term than the problem that existed before we went in to offer that short term.
kind of help. So for me that is absolutely, you know, it fits my ethos and
would force me naturally to say, you know, what allow me this interdependent beings, we are in a global society, we need each other, right, we leverage off each other's strengths to create transformation. So personally, I would feel that you would definitely be
a partner for, for my ethos, and,
again, I'm not trying to sell charity right here, but I'm just trying to focus on what was said,
I do pray that the lessons from this chat somehow and obviously these are new for us because you are at the top and you need to set the mandates for robots and yet, this whole concept of educating the donor, if some, some kind of effort can be done between charities before I'm about to get to, to meet different imams of different masajid across the country, for our listeners, who are in other countries get, get this effort going as well, whereby a hook back can be done with all these things explained, maybe a template of points can be shared with them, a discussion can happen now with all these online platforms, it's easy to bring people into a room you can bring 1000 imams into into a
computer screen. And these discussions can take place for the greater good obviously, you know, without the moms will have questions. And if they have access to you, they'll feel comfortable and they themselves will be happy to go out and tell their communities that Listen, you know, put your money here we were inspired by what we saw. Not charity, right only we talk about all the charities that are in the sector come together and work effort to educate people that listen, you know, these are the pros of 100% donor policy these are the cons right? he conceived by by by the title
you know and there's other things to look at this is the reality with regards to gifted This is the reality with regards to soda This is the reality with charity full and does with with your charity. Why does falana does this with your with your soda. And perhaps this would be the start of a long long term process of planting the seeds of change because the change has to happen Mashallah. I mean we do see giving increasing and this this is good martial law meaning more people are playing soccer, more people are giving sadaqa I believe in the of Corona. More people recalibrated their life
paradigms, the ideologies, their social panela death is only a handbrake away. What am I doing? Why am I running after this? And why am I running after that? And what is the savings going to do for me? Let me put it in a in something beneficial for my anger. I cannot tell you how many how many people have contacted me this year to build wealth and to build my sajit So hello, and I'm talking about people who don't go to the masjid except on a Friday.
Right? It's the off coronas recalibrated them, right? So hon Allah. So the fact that you know, more people will donate in sha Allah. Let us educate them so that we lift off the sensitivities, number one and number two, we also teach them about impactful charity. And when we talk about let's reclaim our center Kansa This is what it's about. It's not about trying to put an organization down or a charity down per se. It's about telling people come on, think beyond just giving. Be part of the solution. Giving is a part of it. You know, put your mind into it. Put your heart into put this the heart in it, put sugar into it. This is your sadaqa it's your ibadah Allah subhanho wa Taala is
registering your act, right it's like for Salah make your will do properly go to the masjid peacefully entered the masjid before time, worship Allah subhanho wa Taala the same thing with your sadaqa do the necessary groundwork understand what x charity can do for yourself that or why charity can do for yourself? I do Shura st Shara, we are an oma of Torah. Allah praise the Sahaba for the fact that they'd had communal discussions between them and from the decisions were made. Prayer istikhara then hand over your sadaqa Oh, you're Sokka and then it's awkward, right? That's what's left. So we have lots of Hannah who Allah bless us all and bless you all and make all of us a means
of transformative change for the oma that brings us to the end of today's broadcast brothers and sisters in Islam very quickly. In a minute, a brother suggestion for us if you can give us some closing words Allah bless you both.
You know, they say don't give a chef a microphone but Mashallah suggests he, he handles it. Well.
I just I think, first of all shake I don't think getting 100 on a zoom call is a good idea.
Let's see how that goes. I think we could raise some funds from there I'm sure the ticket sales.
I think you know exactly half for your kind words. And I think it's no secret you'll be supporting this on the left since the beginning of the last few years.
You've been even more active with your support, especially in Ramadan. inshallah, this year you can be doing the same.
I think for everyone, I think the main thing is that when you're looking at selecting a charity, just make sure that you do like what you said make sure you go through everything and apart from the money you mentioned.
Wells and a mustard shake. You know, this is again another example of how sometimes the numbers don't necessarily mean anything. I went to a machine in Malawi, and I looked next door, and there was another machine looking exactly the same. And I said, literally next door to each other like, like houses. And I said, Well, this is a, what's that? And he said, that's the old machine. Was it? What do you mean? What was wrong with that he goes, as a donor, he wanted to build a machine, we have this plot, so we built it. So they moved everything from there, which essentially, is adding no benefit to the community. It's in the numbers. But yeah, I think be sincere in that, like, so a lot
of times people are very quick to slip charges without having done their research and having spoken to you, if you're unsure about a charity, give them a call, you know, give them drop them an email, say I'm unsure about this, you know, why do you spend money in this way? Why have you hired this person from this place, etc, etc. And then hopefully you get to a conclusion, in the end, inshallah, la baddeck.
I just let me echo that, I mean, selecting a charity, look at the board, look at the due diligence, look at the accounts, look at the messaging that's going out and make your decision in the same way as if you were investing that on the market that money or buying a share or buying a house, you do your due diligence, do the same thing. It's your scorecard, it's your sadaqa you're gonna get questioned over it. So look at that, I think and, and, and also, you know,
there are some incredible people in this sector, you know, and they and they give blood sweat and tears when I you know, it's not just suggested doesn't matter, he's my brother and he does some incredible work of Ramadan, but you look at these guys, and what they do during Ramadan is incredible.
So it does take all of us the donor, the charity, you know, coming together and having that conversation, it's a conversation that has to be had in common leave that elephant over there, we've got to talk about it. So you know, however, we get that you know, suggested make a call, ask the people that you know, you know, send an email, whatever it takes, just get the answers that you need, because the quicker we deal with this, the quicker we can build and then we can sustain and then we will change the lives that you know, rather transform the lives that we're looking to transform 100 I thank you very much for your time chef. Allah bless you love it and thank you both
for for your time thanks we thank our listeners on Twitter on Facebook and on YouTube as well for their time as well MLS Panama tell excerpt from us all that said, Everybody please take the lessons. Remember, we're an oma we hear a good word and we should follow it that's from the ethos of Omar Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in Alaska, Allah Subhana Allah to make us a group of people tonight that heard a good word and we will follow and also a group of people that are forgiven upon our departure. I mean, you're open and let me just open the harem. Until next time salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato wa salam ala nabina Muhammad wa ala alihi wa sahbihi