Why Are We Alive – Muslim_Atheist Discussion

dependent upon something which is dependent, then we're gonna have a regressive chain of dependent entities.

So, if I say universe dependent upon something which is dependent, which is dependent upon something which is dependent, and I keep going back dependently progressively, then it will be a regress of independent entities,

which means there has to be, which means that there has to be one independent object to allow all of the dependence to

die idea. There could be an independent entity, which allows dependent entity to just focus.

Because that makes the most sense to you right now.

Okay, so tell me something which makes more sense.

The way I looked at the universe is very mysterious.

The universe had a beginning, a big bang, you believe the universe?

There's theories behind that. And I'm open to

say that the universe didn't even begin then it just it just it just minimized.

I think you're right, I agree.

So

the more you, the more you go into?

Yes. So at the end, there must be some sort of end where it comes together. So. So the universe is expanding, it's going to come back down. It's almost like the sparkle in a flash of

the universe.

The universe had a beginning.

Just keep on recording until

you say the universe.

The universe had a beginning.

Beginning, he just said that. I say I had a I had a point.

Where would you agree that everything that begins to exist has a cause?

So give me an example of something that begins to exist.

Okay, so you're saying

dark matter is a direct consequence of the Big Bang. So the cause of dark matter is the Big Bang.

If the if the Big Bang does not happen, if everything's supposed to be everything, the universe is fine, fine. But so therefore, according to logic, if you're saying dark matter, then don't

forget purposes default Christian. My point was nothing to do with puppet I just said, everything that you said the universe began to exist. I'm saying everything that begins to exist has a cause you agree with this? Fine. No, no, you don't agree. It's okay. Can you give me something which doesn't have a cause? I'm going to just

pause and we began to

pause is

what what is it? What is it coming towards what was what was it defined in the dictionary as something which brings rise to phenomena? Okay, so I'm saying

Do you know anything which has been brought has been given rise to, which doesn't have a course?

Which is costless.

Anything that's cause this

concept forgotten? Nothing? Basically?

Can something come from anything that you can tell us that came from nothing? Yeah, no, I can give you an example. So your experiential, subjective, or otherwise, observational life story would give us the indication that everything you've witnessed in your life

that has ever been caused into effect has a cause? Okay, fine. So I'm saying the same applies to the universe, you agree with that? Fine. So everything I'm against exists on a cause the universe began to exist, therefore, the universe had a cause by fine was this course.

So let's, let's use deductive inference. Yeah. Let's use inference now to identify what the causes explanation. Yeah. So what is the best possible explanation for this course? It depends, depending on what causes you agree that the laws of physics and ask your question

right, Bryan?

Armstrong try something with you. Okay.

Probably not physical.

The laws of physics.

Do you agree that there is something called the laws of physics? Well, yeah.

There's probably some things out there that are unexplainable that exists outside.

Is this universe ordered with the laws of physics?

Yes, well, the laws of physics what science is the auditors in

As the laws of physics exist,

do we have laws of physics in this universe?

Yeah, what do the laws of physics

show us about the universe?

Does it show its ordered? or non audit? audit? Yes.

system or system? is random. Okay. You believe in randomness? Yeah. I'm gonna ask you to do something.

Sorry. Ryan O'Brian. Right?

Right.

I'm going to say something today.

Remember, this?

randomness does not exist.

This is a big claim. Yeah. randomness philosophically. I mean, I would say this, I would actually say, the majority of philosophies in the world. In fact, there's very many, very few things that philosophers agree upon. What I'm saying now is one of those things, there's very few things that philosophy.

There's very few things that philosophers actually agree upon.

And this is one of those things.

Really, the truth is this.

Everything is determined.

Everything is determined. Okay. Now, I want you to imagine

we have

a menu.

Would you call it the was?

Yeah, what do you call it? The blue chips? chips? Yeah.

Okay, okay. He'll come

to me say 15 minutes.

You know that? If you want to marry a Muslim woman, you have to be Muslim?

Yeah, of course. So,

anyways, we can do that.

You can do it?

No, no, I'm not saying no particular saying that generally, we can help you that.

That's not for the rest of the people.

In the costume. This is the guy services, just six minutes, you know, just get to know we'll get to it.

That's fine.

was gonna say choose this?

Isn't you? Yeah. I don't

know, someone might think if I were to play pool like this, and I get the white ball, and I'm not called ever balls of it, then that's a random thing.

No philosopher would agree that that's random.

I want you to remember this. Yeah.

Everything.

Everything in this world is a result of two things, genetics and environment.

Your conversation with me here today is not a random conversation. It is necessarily a product of necessarily a product of genetics and environment.

Do you understand I'm saying okay.

Everything is determined.

Everything. This is a philosophical consensus.

So the claim is randomness is not working. So I tell you what, I totally agree with you 100%. When you're looking at the scale of the planet, and the earth that we live in, when you start scaling the universe, that's for me when I start sweating. That's fine. That's cool. But I'm saying the laws of physics. The fact that they are older than that, that we have, we have we have laws of physics, we say that is a non random, it cannot be a random thing.

Remember, who said this, but science and physics generally speaking, there's just one thing really

is that yes, physics is a part of science. Right? So physics is the study

of patterns, and regularities in nature.

I'm saying that

that will suggest that the universe here is

regulated and has patterns. The question is, why do the laws of physics exists?

Put those rules into place once somebody has put those into place.

We've established that randomness does not exist.

Right now we know that. I mean, I don't know that because like I said, there's a lot of stuff as you Brian chansey universe, the further you go out, the more explained in inexplainable he gets when you're the hotter the laws of physics, right when you're totally 100%. That's the laws that's the grounds that we live in the reality we live up to the

More you branch out, the harder is for you to say are there it doesn't. Because at the end of the day in the universe, you've got hundreds, hundreds or probably 1000s millions of random events going on planets colliding into each other, just a bunch of stuff. Some of those will form into planets will have life, some of them won't. Okay, I'm not saying I'm not making an argument that says that planets have life, something the universe could say. Like, I'm just saying that laws, the laws of physics are can we can conceive them

without venturing out to the universe, right. Okay, so I'm just using the rules of deductive reasoning and say, by all means, what happens out he must have been out there saying anything in this world? Yeah, you see what I'm saying? So here,

we said that the universe has a cause. Before that, we said the universe is dependent on something you said that everything that changes is dependent, the universe is changes, therefore, it's dependent. So we've got two questions to ask, what caused the universe? What is the universe dependent upon?

And the answer is the same.

You see what I mean?

What caused the universe? And what is the what is the universe dependent upon? And the answer is the same. I will say to you that whatever caused the universe, is what the universe is dependent upon, or wherever the universe is dependent upon is what causes universe. We already established that one of the things that the universe is dependent upon is something which must be independent. Because if we say it's dependent upon something which is dependent, there'll be a regressive chain of independent things. So you have to have one independent entity, the same thing applies. We're saying that the universe and of course, if you say that the coolest had the coolest one, of course, you'd

have a regressive chain, called the infinite regression. Now that infinite regression has to have one.

Right, something beside everything. Right. My question now is, what occurs? What are the necessary characteristics of that entity that started everything up? I'm saying to you,

that when we look at the laws of physics, the fact that the universe is ordered regulated, has systems

that shouldn't be and everything is determined. That should indicate to us that the the independent entity, that side the universal, the ultimate cause of the universe is, in fact, an intelligent force.

I'd say I'd say Yes, I'd say there is an entity that's controlling everything that there would be intelligent Yeah.

Especially if we can see that the laws of physics are so precise, right. So moving forward, I will say that, if that's the case, it would also have to have power, because it would have to power would have to change the situation, from non being to being right, it would have to have ability to change a non entity into an entity,

that the universe began to exist as an evidence of this the universe is dependent upon something is another evidence of this, right. So wherever the universe is dependent upon must be something which is in effect, really able to power the universe able to allow the universe to be dependent upon

the universe is dependent upon an independent entity, which is allowing you the maintenance of the universe, which brings us to another thing that this thing must be maintaining and sustaining the universe.

This thing must be indivisible. It cannot be more than one because if this thing was more than one, first and foremost, there would be chaos. If you say, for example, that

if I say that there were two things, which were all powerful,

two independent things, that were all powerful.

Two things are two names. For one thing, those two things, one of those two things would have to be powerful over the other thing, because you can't have two powerful entities, it's impossible, you have to have only one powerful entity, because

by physical necessity, all powerful means that it's powerful than anything else, how they act.

If they did, if they did, if that if that did happen, for example, if we said entity, one was control of the leaves of the tree, and entity two was in control of the root of the tree, then there is a potential for conflict, conflict in the context of the rules of physics, the fact that we see that there is no conflict in the universe, in that sense, that there is a structured law would indicate to us that it cannot be like that,

by the way,

even even the ancient Greeks

democracies, democracies, interestingly, when he was talking about the vision of the the atom, I think he was the first was mentioned after he said that he was talking about the beginning of the universe must be indivisible.

Must be indivisible. Because and this goes back to kind of Occam's razor Occam's razor is another philosophical precept that says that you need to simplify something to the lowest common multiple, lowest common multiple in this case as well.

101 is the only necessary number, the only necessary entity to start this chain reaction, we only need one prime mover, we only need one thing that pushes the dominoes, we don't need to. And even if we did need to, so even if there could be two days, they wouldn't be able to coexist because of the clashes that they will be going into conflict together. So I've established that this entity is one, it's got intelligence, he's got power, he's got ability. But you can argue that anything with intelligence can come around the laws of nature, you say something exists in the same power, they have to have some silver conflict, right? Because they're, they're at the same power. And if one is

above the other, then they can kind of control and mediate. If one is above the other, then it could just subordinate The other thing. Yeah, sure. So wouldn't need to

add intelligence. And then they worked at once themselves, couldn't they just get rid of that whole conflict? I mean,

I think we have a presupposition here, right. So you've got two things, you've got intelligence. And you've also got power. So when you have power, when you come to democratically display,

power to create money. So think of it this way, we can't find them what they would throw a cosmic level would feel and they could talk to them.

Now, if you had power,

they were intelligent enough to

show you the contradiction, the contradiction if they were both intelligent, right?

If we're both all intelligence, first and foremost, we all need each other. Do you know what the difference is? The difference is this. If you're intelligent, we need each other because we know two minds are better than one.

Intelligent, we don't even need each other. So you see, you're saying this is the thing that's behind all the universes even though the two?

But if it is true, it has to be one is above the other? Yeah, if one is it love the other, then there's actually only one thing which is subordinating, will

you get it? Exactly right. I think you're right. So here, I would say true. This is

the case of the Intelligent Design thesis, which is that there's something some entity that began the universe.

Does that sound more reasonable than that? There is no

inference that we can make from the beginning of the universe, except that the universe came from.

Okay, fine. You just say it makes more sense. Let's be honest, I've got two options. Either you say that happened?

I agree, it makes more sense. But at the end of the day,

at the end of the day,

we are people of influence, right? Human beings are influence makers, we make inference on a daily basis. And an inference is to find the sub conclusion that will make based on the evidence. So here we've looked at the deductive evidences, all the arguments, we've seen that actually, the conclusion that we can reasonably make, based on the evidence is

the case of the universal and who is controlling the universe in some way retaining it has the intelligence to put the laws of physics into place, and all the other laws in place?

And who is what? So if that is the case, my question is,

so you, Ryan,

what's the purpose of life? Then? Why did this entity put you on this planet, this placement on this earth? And this universe? You could never possibly answer that question. Well, if it just wanted me to exist and experience the beauty of what reality is that is made? Or you could say that it actually has requirements? How'd you know? That question? There you go. How do I know?

The only thing you should know what's really ironic? I'll be honest with you.

The only thing you're sure about? Is your

your son's about. Is that your answer? Yes, sir.

I do.

Know Alexa. I think uncertainty is a curious thing, because it opens up doors. I

know, it takes away from the mystery taste. I like it. I like that humbleness.

You can't be certain that you're uncertain. You can't be certain with uncertainty. You can only be uncertain with uncertainties. If you want to say to me, you can never know that. Okay, that would suggest that you've seen all the answers and you've made the decision. I'm saying to you that is your eyes.

Okay, there is one day now. My question is, is there a fixed purpose because everyone cuz I can say look

ontologically you can make your own subjective purpose. I can make my own subjective purpose. He can make his own subjective purpose. We can all make our own subjective purposes. Meaning we can make our own meaning.

You're someone What's your purpose of life me to this company? Next.

Someone else's has become a serial killer. So well, you know, she can be can range you can range, right? The point is this. I'm not asking about subjective purpose, my question is now

objective purpose

do you feel

that

this entity

or the universe,

would could

should ought to have assigned

an objective purpose for

an objective purpose, a purpose, which is free from subjective bias.

If you're talking about something as simply as living life to the fullest, that's a liberal idea. That's not a problem. But what I'm saying is, find your purpose, because then I'll be able to say purposes or reason.

One reason if you're saying that this purpose is like, Oh, I have to

lead a good life be a good person, I'm not saying this. I'm just saying, Look,

I'm saying from from this teleological perspective, right, so, things which exists

in in the context, listen to this carefully, things which exists in the context of a predetermined

universe with ordered laws of physics, which are structured, and regulated, exist for a purpose. So that's my, that's my thing, which include me in you

one more time, one more time, things which exists in the context of a predetermine universe with rules and regulations, which put it into words which govern.

It exists for a purpose.

Therefore, since we are within that the universe, the human also has a purpose, what is the purpose? The purpose is to procreate?

And I'd say I'd say that's

okay.

Because I can see that within the animal kingdom, I can so why should we have continuation? continuation? Why should we have continuation of the human species? If we're such a

void? species of any objective purpose? Why should they be continuation?

That doesn't need to be?

Exactly why

don't you think that we're different from I think we're more intelligent. There's more to it than that.

You know what the difference between us and the dinosaurs is?

The difference is we can ask why. And the dinosaur can ask why. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we can think about purpose was the dinosaur the T Rex, you can think about puppies coughing white wax. It's all I'm saying she was just

a simple, straightforward, easy, digestible, reasonable.

conclusion.

The purpose of human beings

is to do what everything else in the universe is doing.

Wait a minute, what did you say? Okay, now? I'll tell you, okay, okay.

Since everything in the universe is predetermined, there must be something which predetermine the universe, we will say that thing that predetermined the rules and regulations of the universe is the entity which created the universe, the creator,

we have to also be in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Creator.

Do you see how that works? How will we know the rules and the regulations of the Creator?

We histologically, in order for us to understand something has to be taught in

our worldview is that literally, there was an intermediary, which we call angels, colloquially. And obviously this kind of thing is to secular is I understand we hear angels stuff is all like, you know, fairy tale forget about this, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave now go back to

whatever, but don't think like that. Angels are intermediaries or

subordinates of God, right. So which God uses because this entity is good, right?

He uses them

to,

to allow

for communication between him and then he uses it for other reasons as well. So we say that human beings came a full time back, Abraham and Moses and Jesus and all of these human beings came

to too, and they had that communication from that creator entity. Okay, so then he came, told them to believe in one God and to worship one God, worship is submission

The rules or regulations of God, they have been told the rules and regulations of God through this revelation.

And then they will tell that to their people. And we say that ended with Mohammed, who, which you believe is the final prophet. Each of the prophets came with two things, they came with those rules and regulations. And they also came with evidence to prove their profit.

So the evidence is that they've come with a good range. So depending on the time and a place, we will say some of the evidences of the crime is that the fraud is inevitable, it can't be replicated, replicated, is as preserved as the only preserved religious document. religious text is only present

of all of the religious texts, is that has no contradiction in them. And that's one of the challenges of the Quran.

And also, that no one is capable of producing, I will say this challenge, anything like the

in addition to that there are other things like predictions it makes in the future. I mean, the profit practically predicted, I would say, the majority of countries that are Muslim, now he predicted that they will, they will be Muslim.

Right? So these predictions, and this kind of system of fortification of the pronoun is created for herself, who would say excellent evidence to show that in fact, He is the creator of the universe that is, in fact, in communication with your being and who is and who wants you to believe in him as a result of this evidence. So does that make sense?

Sure. Okay, so I can understand So would you like to become Muslim?

But at the end of the day, I told you at the beginning of the argument, I like to have the whole mysterious phenomena.

I would hate to align myself to one because you've got a Christian then you've got other apologists.

There's also a lot of answers in other other religious contradicting

and there's no evidence.

And

trust me, I wasn't.

I wasn't even.

I didn't want to leave

myself to look into religion. Yeah. When I, when I saw that his answer and my

when I, when I saw that is answered my finance with questions, versions. I was like, Wow,

it's been here. I'm 21 years old. It's been here my whole life. It's been in front of me my whole life. Why didn't I just look into it? You know, why? What? like things like the media. I've never been for the media anyway. When I'm that guy that looked into conspiracy theories. The universe does that. And then you know what, when I saw that, some of my answers, I was like, I never hadn't, I never had a reason not to believe.

It made sense to me. And I appreciate it. But I've actually looked into other religions as well. I haven't specifically gone to Islam into deep. I have a lot of Muslim friends. And we talk about

Christian churches. I've gone to other places, and I do look, I see what what their opinion is because I am interested in your question. Do you have

any unanswered questions? I have so many, honestly, there's so many

weeks ago, about five weeks ago, six weeks ago?

I think if those questions were answered,

while I would have to go into a specific direction. Let me tell you what, I would have the answer. Let me tell you, let me tell you something now you don't believe in nothing. Yeah.

I like it. It's not like I don't think nothing is true. But I like to think that something could be out there.

Nothing means you don't believe in yourself, hence why you have no reason to live. That is why we're atheists and a lot of other people go into heavy depression.

And that's also why a lot of people when they're looking and they're almost You know, they're near death, they're going through a near death experience. They also look to religion because it gives them the answers to give them purpose and well being I really do appreciate read john started, like I said up until I was religious as well. I think we are all unique in the way that we think I've bounced from and looked into what is left into Christianity. I

mean,

he you've got right now mythology, and it's all fascinating to me.

And it's always one of those things. We'll look into even more and I'll give you

Like the way that you come up, out the way you've gone standing, you haven't gone into a blind.

I'm open minded. And then I was like I had this.

Everyone who's like that close minded. However,

when I listened to Mohammed, and I saw how he explained talks about the universe, I was like, wow, that's my understanding. I think same of me and the universe. And then when he started when when you combine religion with the ideologies of the universe to start making sense to me, which gave me the motivation

you know, what made me It

made me accept them believe it was the fact that you can't write a verse like it and talk to the state is impossible.

For me dice, dice dice one thing, that's, that's the only That's enough, because they say nothing is impossible, it is impossible

to get one and to get one. There's a lot of

stuff like Christianity, the chain of an original chain of integration and also from him to

Google it, you see it so

while I was living, I don't want to talk about it. I wasn't living a good life. So no one would listen to me teaches us out it goes in depth to how we wash our hands how to you know, after we do on number two, how to clean this, you know, even goes into fine detail surgery same as well, I was like, wow, this is a way of life.

This is so beautiful. The wife I know, looked into this before. I was I wish I looked into it.

But you know, everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. That's right.

It's just

I wasn't making much less. I'm looking to get back in. Yeah.

Last time I was four years ago. Yeah, I think injury.

No, no, no.

It's good, man. Maybe we'll do some training one day.