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Sapient Voices #04

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Hamza Tzortzis

Channel: Hamza Tzortzis

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Episode Notes

Sh. Mirza Yawar Baig – Forget The Numbers To Get The Numbers

Episode Transcript

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Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim and in Hindi levels so that was salam ala Rasulillah Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Brothers and sisters are friends and welcome to sapient voices, where we give platform to voices of wisdom and we facilitate discussion in order for wisdom and reason, sound reason to prevail. With me. I have our beloved chef, Chef era bake and I'm going to introduce him before bring him on board. Chef YAHWAH bake is the founder and president of the hour bake and Associates. He is an advisor, author, life coach, and corporate consultant. He is alumni of Hyderabad public school in his own college and the Indian Institute of Management in Ahmedabad. He

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draws on his extensive experience of over 35 years and consulting with multi national corporations, government and business entrepreneurs on three continents. He specializes in leadership development and family business consulting. He is on the consulting faculty of GE corporate university, Croton Ville ama International and SVP National Police Academy, Hyderabad, India. Mr. Chef Mr. Mirza yellower. Baig is the resident scholar at the Islamic Society of Western Massachusetts and Huntress mosque in Hampshire mosque and the Muslim chaplain at Springfield College and Westwood State University. Shake your water has a keen interest in education and believes that primary and

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secondary school education is the foundation for societal change to create a society based on compassion. He is an advisor to Jimmy Relena Council of Muslim theologians South Africa and Sri Lanka and the Association of State Association of Muslim schools South Africa. He founded the maboob Habib masjid and Islamic center in Hyderabad in 2009. And was its Imam Imam into 2019 when he moved to the United States, check your one has written fifth sorry, has written 40 books including three audio books, and five books of 52 Joomla clippers each and speaks five languages. One of my favorite books of Shakti yoga is leadership lessons of the life of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,

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and you can find him at your water big.com Jeff said I'm really proud to live but I get

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no, the pleasure is all mine. The pleasure is all mine and after this podcast, I think the pleasure will be all there's those who are listening in sha Allah. So I'm just gonna go straight into Asia. I want to ask you one important question which in the context of dour sharing Islam as you know, sapiens Institute wants to share Islam academically and intellectually and develop others and empower others to do to do so the same. So, in the context of down what is the number one missing ingredient? That is a very difficult question because

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I can I can probably answer it for myself and I would like to answer for myself not for everybody else, but I think maybe people can look at that.

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For me,

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I think it is to deal with the

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disappointment that you do not get the kind of support that you want from Muslims

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for the work of the

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I know that every thing that we do we remind ourselves that you are doing it only and only for the pleasure of Allah subhanaw taala alone and for no other reason.

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But it wouldn't be nice if we got the kind of support that

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would really make things happen and produce results. Now once again, you know the issue of saying all these things in a Islamic context is that somebody will say well you know, results are in the hands of Allah of course they are, but Allah subhanaw taala said one laser is any Lavasa. So therefore,

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we need to make the effort and in that effort if we have support the example that I always think to myself is the entire community and brotherhood of the Sahaba with Rasul Allah, he's a wrestler.

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Now from as a as a Muslim and from a position of Aqeedah I will not say Rasulullah sallallahu Sallam could not have or would not have been able to achieve his risk.

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also without them, but if I look at it from a purely objective way,

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as a leadership consultant, then I must say that

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the role of the Sahaba and the kind of support they give him, which was completely unstinting completely sincere and total and wholehearted.

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This was a huge element in the success of his Dawa Sallalahu reason.

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And I feel that this is a this is the sad thing because

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as I said, I'm speaking for myself, for those for whom this is a different reality all party you, but you do not get the support that you would really like to have. And so you have to give consoling yourself by saying that Omar Al and a little beloved movie, Allah subhanaw, Taala only sent me to convey and I am conveying,

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but I would be lying. If I told you that results were not important to me, I would be lying if I told you that I'm just satisfied with conveying and it doesn't matter whether anyone accepts it or not.

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It does matter.

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And it is, it makes the task much more difficult. When you do not get the support of your own people. And you and your own people disappoint you in that.

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So, you know, and it's not a it's not an either or thing. It's not that nobody supports Of course, of course, a lot of people do support and so on hamdulillah and that's also partially what keeps you going Of course, it is also the you know, the whatever your class, we think we have with regard to almost banter, but it definitely it is also support our people, but one would, at the end of the day, you would say if only this had been more

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Okay, so

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let's unpack that a little bit. Sure.

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So in terms of support,

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give me some examples. What do you mean, because I think your experiences, they may be a microcosm, but I think they will represent a macrocosm or give you an example, we had a leadership retreat just a week ago, I believe called the visionaries with Chef Haytham and others. And it was in collaboration with Seville.

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And one key aspect of that retreat, which by the way, we referenced your material, may Allah subhanho wa Taala bless you. And in fact, when shefa had Tasneem was delivering a session and he I think quoted one of your quotes from your book. I think if I remember correctly, he thought it was very powerful and he was moved. So may Allah bless you, Chef.

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And when we're delivering that retreat, I had mentioned something about having a World Vision, how you see the world, and your personal and organizational vision should be in some ways subservient to the global vision. And what happens on fortunately, in the dollar today, we conflate the two, we think the organized organizational vision is somewhat the same as the global vision. Yes, it wants to achieve that global vision. But then what happens is they think that organization is the only vehicle for that global vision, which is never never the case, because you don't have all the all the resources at your disposal. And then what happens subconsciously at least from a collective

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perspective, you have an organizational primacy over the primacy of Allah subhanaw taala because your global vision must be Allah centric and Africa centric. And when we have that misalignment of visions, if you like, what happens is we stop helping each other, we think I could do it myself, or we have this kind of collective malaise, the collective ego that I can do this myself and it's about me and my organization, and we forget the bigger picture. And this really, I already had this in mind, but this awakened to me the importance and the primacy of the fact that we have to support everybody involved in the sector, because your success is my success. Their success is my success is

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similar to the Hadith upasana I mean all murottal McMan the believer is a mirror of another believer and you could just expand this from a macro point of view. So in that context, and even your bird is agreeing with us I think Yeah.

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bluejay outsider, mashallah

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even even the creation of Allah subhanaw taala is affirming what we're saying. So check. The point here is, give me some examples this unpack this a little bit more what you mean by support and what are the reasons why the support is not that

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you know,

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I think I think you'll put your finger on it. And I think that

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part of the reason

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I'm not talking about Dawa organizations.

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Part of the reason is that the other organizations have taken their methodology

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from two sources. One is Christian, theological,

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theological preachers. And second is from the corporate training world

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motivational speakers, Tom Peters, and so on, so on, so on to training. Now, the corporate training world is my world. So I know what what happens, I know how it works, and what are the bullseye and so on so on.

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The issue is that when you take a tool, the culture of the tool comes with it. Right? Technology is not value neutral, and technology is not culture neutral technology brings with it the ideology behind the technology.

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For example, if you're using artificial intelligence AI for one of the primary,

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you know, powers of AI is it enables a massive data searches and very, you know, intuitive kind of results and answers, it automatically brings in a thinking and a ideology of the supremacy of technology.

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It brings in this belief that technology can solve all problems,

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the power of technology, and if you're not careful, then this is juxtaposed against the power of Allah subhanaw taala, and Allah's hoodrat and what Allah can do, and technology becomes more powerful in our minds and our understanding, then the Quran, Allah subhanaw taala.

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So, this is something to keep in mind. Now, what has happened, I think, with the Tao organizations is that they have used the Christian a Christian evangelical preachers, methodology and the methodology of

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people like Tom Peters, you know, and so on. Stephen, Stephen Covey and all that. So they are presenting Islam like

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motivational courses.

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Now, Islam as we know, also Eliza Salem, Allah Samaritan has sent him with a four step process, right? You have to know Allah MIT where he was a game where you Alamo will get up all hikma. So, inform them, teach them recite for them what you what you received, then prepare them to receive it themselves. Now use a key. So the mosquito national database will o'clock

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now, which means that if you simply hear it without being your, without your

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heart, being ready to receive it, it's not, it's not going anywhere.

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So that preparation has to be done. And the third one is what you I live on will keep it up. So teach teach it to them.

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And the fourth one is demonstrate how it is to be practiced, which is one hikma the wisdom of it. Now, the example I always give is that of a farmer, that the farmer has this absolutely fabulous seed which is the most powerful seed which can give him the best possible harvest.

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But if the farmer takes the seed and simply scatters it on the ground, the seed will will die. You know, it's not going to give any results. Any intelligent farmer knows anything about farming will first prefer to keep the seed safely and then he will prepare the soil right, he will take away he will he will, he will plow it, he will winnow it, he will do all the stuff with it, he will check the pH value acidity alkalinity, he will look at pathogens, soil pathogens, he will work on that any pests and disease, all of this he will do, he will dig irrigation channels so that water could get to the seed and so on. Then he will plant the seed and that seed also he will plant it in the way

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that specific seed should be planted. Some skill seeds have to be scattered some ski seeds have to be planted deep and so on. Right

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and after that, what is the seed?

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This whole process if the farmer misses any of the steps, either the seed will die or even if it germinates, it will wither and he will not get a crop. He won't get to harvest the issue

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With our Tao work is that we do two things and Tao as well as I will even include the way we teach Islam including in the modalities and the dark rooms Illa mashallah, if somebody has a mother's or God room or of our system which does not, is which is not like what I'm saying, or I'm going to say then all part you keep on the good work.

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We do out of the four things we do too. And we wish to hear throughout MIT we focus on the tilava of the Quran.

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So we focus on touch we focus on the different styles of recitation and so on and so on and so on.

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User Key him preparation we have forgotten we don't even know how to do that anymore. In law, mashallah, we do not even have teachers who know what to do about it.

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How do you prove how do you prove purify my heart?

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Right, I come to you. By heart is impure. Does anyone even know what to do about that? If somebody says to you look in your heart?

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What do you see? Do you understand this? Do you understand the statement is it just works? Look at the heartbeat what means look in the pocket.

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And remember, this is the statement that Ebro family Salah who was at the age of maybe 80 plus 90, said to his little son Ismail Ali salaam, about whom Allah said when he was ready to walk.

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What age is that?

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You're not talking about that. He's not talking saying that to a 20 year old or even a 15 year old. We're looking at a little boy.

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What did he say? He said, fun Zoo. Maga, Tara. Look, what do you see? After telling him that I've seen you? I've seen myself sacrificing you to Allah subhanho wa Taala in my dream. Then he says to him fun though. Mother Gara. Look, what do you see?

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And the sandwich response straightaway, the SAT doesn't doesn't say what look where?

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What kind of conversation is this? And no clue what you're saying my father? No, he knows exactly what he's saying. Because he is connected with his heart. He knows what is the meaning of look at your heart.

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So it is his valor. He says insha Allah rasa and you will find me among God do he says do what you have been ordered to do?

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If Alma tomorrow

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and you will find me among the insha Allah because he again see the CDC the awareness, he don't say I will have some he does not know when was the last time his throat was slit so he doesn't know you will have summer. He doesn't know that. He said insha Allah

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so this does Gabi we forgot we focus on the recitation even hills of the Quran. In the big majority part of the world how fast do not know what they are reciting

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can tell you a funny story about that later on. True story but funny story anyway. So they memorize. They recite they learn how to do that well dutifully, and so on and so on and so on.

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People sit and they

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admire the recitation, or this or the lobby. Oh, this is full and Ben fuller. The question to ask is what are you admiring

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the tool?

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Then How's that different from admiring Bob Murray?

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That's also too

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is that what the Quran came for? to admire the two because you don't understand what you're saying.

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You're just looking at the lilt in the voice

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you know, I remember the first time I saw you in that leadership program in in London, what was that place?

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I think it was Milton Keynes. It was High Wycombe, one of those two places High Wycombe, High Wycombe, right.

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And you walked into the hall when I was reciting something.

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And you pointed at me and you said that is a trained voice.

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And you said I know that because I have a trained voice.

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Right, but my point is, is the recitation of the Quran only about train voice training.

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But that's what we've done. So yeah, through la via TV focused user K, zero work.

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Then we look at you are living human

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kita so we focus on starting from calligraphy beautifully illustrated beautifully illuminated both halves. Then we go into teaching at the top see the third Juma the translation that I've seen the, the, you know, there's all of that and then we argue about that and we have all kinds of debates and we have all kinds of symposia and everything to do with the Talim of the format

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without us get the idea

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and the last part which is actual practice against you

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that is our problem.

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So now, our organizations also have taken Islam as a product and they sell it out there as a product and they see another dollar organization in the same way that coke sees Pepsi

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as competition

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which should be destroyed and we must grab market share

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right

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that is the problem

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whenever I will is that I'm was there there was Luton a Salem who was is they say he was his nephew. But he wasn't the same time because he primally Salam, when the mullah Iike came to bribery Salah and they said that we are on the way to destroy the people of loot.

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You remember

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that's what we want.

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There was no competition. Fantastic. Brilliant.

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He had tears in his eyes. He said what about look

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right now this is the this is our problem. Islam is not a product, I say to people Islam.

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You got it free, keep it free.

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We have changed Islam into a product. So we run courses, we sell those courses. And some others. I mean, you know this stuff, but some of the stuff I've seen it is so ultimately so bad. It's not funny.

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I was in Malaysia, there was one Tao organization Malaysia seems to have become the center of you know, all these other organizations. So I don't know whether all that stuff is shifting to Turkey or what. But

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there was one Java organization which was which announced a weekend course on Jusuf.

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So, another dive organization immediately publishes their entire text course material answer use of on the Internet free.

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Until that time, it was not free until that time it was not published.

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But the moment this organization announces the course

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they publish all that information free. So it is to say you don't need to go to that course here it is free.

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What is that?

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Another job organization I was in I was invited. I was speaking beautiful big hall. Absolutely perfect acoustics everything

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that they said to me, they gave me the name of a female a lady

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animal

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whose session was the next day

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and somebody came to me they showed me the promotional sheet and this is yet please notice in the same hall, the front seats are more costly than the seats at the back.

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So I said why?

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They said

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because she's a lady

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so I said Tell the lady to put a screen in front of her because speak from behind the screen, like like all my web and they weren't able to do

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that we'll see the fun.

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What is this this is this is not thou Lisa, this is this is moneymaking? Right.

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So if you want to do the work of Islam, I would say stick to the methodology of rasuna Salah for things usually via tea. We will give you valuable pizza

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it must come through practice it must come through the sky it must come through actually physically

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You know, demonstrating it and not devastating the show, but devastating in our own lives. So when people can see and learn from

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this, and therefore the point that you made, which is there is no competition with another our organization. That other organization is they are my brothers, they are the people, we are both in the same work. So, in the same area now, if there are $50 organization which Alhamdulillah, we want another 50

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We don't how can they come? How can they tell you? This is our No, no, this fighting for turf is, is really very highly undignified and disgusting.

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I mean, I do I do, empathize and understand what you're saying, Chef, you know, I've been around in this sector for maybe, I think over 15 years now. And I have seen some of the things that you've mentioned, but there are also very good, bright stars individually and organizationally, that are doing some very good work. And one thing I want to zoom in on, which I think I agree with mostly, is the aspect of scooter knifes.

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It is the case from my experience, at least where people have a fear and it may be a sincere fear that if they over emphasize on the kind of aspects of discuter knifes, then the focus of the organization will move away from the important work of doing the action and doing the data. And it will be focused on let us focus on ourselves. Yes, one would argue you could do it in parallel, but I do kind of see their concern in their fear. However, moving on in my age now maybe getting a little bit more experienced and actually seeing the Dow in a different way and managing the art. I actually feel that your point about the test good enough is probably the most important point in our

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data. Allah subhanaw taala says and sort of foster adversity three and who is better in speech and the one who calls to Allah does the Dow close to Tao, he does righteous deeds is righteous and says I am one of the Muslims.

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Now, sometimes we forget the second and the third piece of advice. Here we just do the Kooning but we forget the righteousness. And not only that, sometimes we get blinded by our own successes, and we don't think, hold on a second. What if I was more connected to Allah? What if I did the right thing internally and externally, maybe I would have had greater success. So I shouldn't pat myself on the back. And this is why you know, what we teach sometimes is when you have success, you should not pat yourself on the back. You shouldn't have this sense of urgency and self amazement, but rather what you should have is you should praise Allah Subhana Allah to Allah, you should do is

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stick far you should repent to Allah, you should turn back to him. Just like what Allah advises the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, when he says about, you know when the people are going to enter the religion in crowds, and Allah tells him how to respond to this success. Right? Praise honors do is take four turn back to Allah subhana wa taala. And I think we missed that in the dial because of our lack of connection, and we tap ourselves on the back, we've got all of this success. But why we never I never hear people say this, I'm gonna honestly share and it really hurt. It hurts in a way. We never asked, What if, what did I do wrong? Not withstanding my success, not withstanding my

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success, what did I do wrong? Or not? totally correct, internally and externally, that prevented me from getting even better results. And not even not even standing in the possibility that that is a valid question. I think that is a sign of our kind of malaise. So okay, what should people do? What should do ought to do and organizations do to implement this essential methodology of the process and anguishes about typical donors? What should they do in order to ensure that the Dow is successful?

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I've got a beautiful question.

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What did you do is defined success.

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What do you mean by success?

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Today, we are defining success in the same way as Coca Cola and Pepsi, headcount.

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How many people came to my course how many people came to my conference?

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How many people came to my class?

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This is not success.

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So we have to redefine success. What is the meaning of success?

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Then everything will fall into place.

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I'll give you an example. We are say Say for example, you're teaching Quran

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hips for example, right? And what is what is your goal?

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You say my goal is to

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This kid must memorize the Quran

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we say okay so you've read the Quran How about understanding what he's deciding that's what my goal

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doesn't make sense no person will say that but that what they're doing

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I was in a mother sir in Hyderabad once and I went into the data fees, the hips program and you start he told me please come and sit and listen to these. These boys I said so I went and sat down. One of those boys came he sat in front of me so I said, okay, so recite something.

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He started reciting Surah Tanga both and he came to the idea called C row fill out of the font Zuru kaifa Budda

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Allah's rather said go and tour the traveling the earth and see how I have created creatures

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so I told him to stop he stopped. Now where we were sitting over to the right through the door we could see into the yard of the mother's side

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and they were a there was a bunch of chickens grazing in the yard. So I said to the wife I said look at the chickens. What do you understand about the eye you just recited by looking at the chickens

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now That poor kid I mean he was like thinking you know what is the man he's mad or something? But of course they all have other so they don't they don't tell you share your crazy but you know he has looked at me like I'm crazy.

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So I told him I said do you understand what you recited? He said Janessa No.

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So I explained to him I said this is what the IR means. He said okay, I see now you understand what it means it Yes. So now look at the tickets. What do you understand? Again zero.

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So as you as the terms of thing what is that chicken eating?

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Is there insects and you know see them grass? I said what about if there's a little gecko a little lizard?

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What will the chicken chicken really did?

00:32:14--> 00:32:19

I said what happens if you eat that if you eat the lizard? Is that I will die because they are poisonous.

00:32:21--> 00:32:38

Hazard what will happen if the chicken is the lizard and then two hours later next day or whatever, you catch the chicken you slaughter the chicken you cook the chicken and you eat this chicken what will happen to you it's a nothing

00:32:41--> 00:32:52

so either something that is poisonous you which will kill you if you eat it. The chicken eats it does not die and you eat the chicken and you don't either.

00:32:54--> 00:33:11

He said now I told him now look at the I call zero will or the form the rupiah weathercock and look at the chicken that Danny What do you think? Now his eyes open wide his jaw dropped and he's just Suhana Elijah I never thought of it like that. I said of course not know what it is like this.

00:33:15--> 00:33:16

This is the problem.

00:33:17--> 00:33:31

Allah subhanaw taala said in normal mode Muna Lavina either aloo Kerala Hua Ji La Paloma y either Talia delay him I add the data to me via YrB Mia Takarazuka Lamphun

00:33:33--> 00:33:45

Allah said, only those are believers, who when the word of Allah when the Name of Allah, when Allah is mentioned before them their hearts, Shiva with the glory and majesty of Allah.

00:33:46--> 00:34:11

And when the Ayat of Allah are recited before them, their Eman increases, and they have Tawakkol on Allah, they have trust all over now than me. And you can ask this question to people. When was the last time that as a child is sitting with you to start memorizing Quran or learning that we

00:34:13--> 00:34:20

that those that stopped him and said you just recited this? What is the state of your art?

00:34:23--> 00:34:24

Did it have any effect on you

00:34:29--> 00:34:30

that this happened

00:34:31--> 00:34:35

I don't know a single incident that this happens.

00:34:36--> 00:34:38

This is the problem with this game.

00:34:41--> 00:34:53

Now, you asked me You said if they focus they are afraid that they focus too much on tasks that they will lose the knob units and numbers but here's what I lose. The numbers are bizarre. Think about it like this.

00:34:54--> 00:35:00

Say for example, instead of running the Dow organization you were running

00:35:00--> 00:35:01

In a dojo,

00:35:02--> 00:35:09

a karate dojo or an aikido dojo. Right now people are students are coming and they're

00:35:10--> 00:35:15

learning from you. And you also have your assistants.

00:35:16--> 00:35:27

Now tell me, will you and your assistants do your regular workout every day before the students come on?

00:35:28--> 00:35:40

Or will you say it's okay, I know the theory, I can tell them this is how to do use the Katana and this is how this is how the you know, one one blow a desire, blog it and whatnot, it doesn't matter if I don't know how to do it.

00:35:43--> 00:35:51

Your own expertise, your own ability, your own power with the knowledge reflects in your teaching.

00:35:54--> 00:36:11

And that's what is happening right now. That's the reason why we have these numbers. But if you if you look at the general condition, it is a reflection of us. That's why I tell people Islam is the name of our practice. It is not the name of a theory.

00:36:13--> 00:36:33

In nonprime, practicing Muslim is not a Muslim. who is a Muslim, the one who practices Islam, not the one who knows about Islam. who is a Muslim only the one who prays not the one who knows about salah who is the same. The one who fasts, not the one who knows about fasting.

00:36:34--> 00:36:39

Who is the hottie the one who did hatch, not the one who knows all the organ of hearts

00:36:42--> 00:36:44

so how does it change when we say who is a Muslim?

00:36:46--> 00:36:48

A Muslim is the one who practices Islam.

00:36:52--> 00:36:55

So this is where the importance of the Ischia, water beer

00:36:56--> 00:37:11

because it's a constant thing. Nobody reaches a point to say, Well, no I am now Hara pure doesn't know till the last breath in our body. We have to keep on doing this. That's the reason why it is so important to have a Muslim

00:37:12--> 00:37:15

is to have somebody who you go to for your own correction.

00:37:17--> 00:37:27

So you know, our our teacher, Imam Abu Hassan Lau Talalay used to say as aid and also how you said it and I'll translate he used to say

00:37:28--> 00:37:37

agar koi apne aapko is last a most US na so much time to worship and keep growing over time.

00:37:39--> 00:37:52

He said if anyone considers himself free from the need obvious live, free from the need of being corrected, then that person is sitting in the lap of shaitan.

00:37:56--> 00:37:57

Yes, sure.

00:37:59--> 00:38:02

I echo your views. However,

00:38:03--> 00:38:48

we bring him back to the idea of success. Because you mentioned the beginning. You know, we want people to accept our efforts. We want people to listen, we want in a way it is a sign of a class that you want the numbers that you want the success. And then you spoke about, okay, we need to redefine success. And you said it's not just the numbers. It's about, you know, what we want people to become like, you know, there's no you know, we want people to become Muslim, for example, we want them to become good Muslims. And not only that, we want to please Allah in the process. And we want to do for the sake of Allah. So what I'm gathering from you here is a sign of success is the

00:38:48--> 00:39:25

numbers. But it's not necessarily the fact that just because you have numbers, you have success, because success is the greatest triumph. And as Allah says, In the Quran, the greatest triumph is entering Jannah and that means you have been enveloped by the boundless Mercy of Allah subhanho wa taala. And you did it for the sake of Allah wherever you did you did it for Allah, it's not the amount of deeds is the weight of the deeds, Allah ways, your deeds, he doesn't count them necessarily. So I don't want people to be confused here. So I do it. I don't know if I'm summarizing what you're saying accurately. So the numbers are important from the point of view that you want

00:39:25--> 00:39:59

people to accept Islam or you want people to be transformed, for sure. But success is not only intrinsically in these vanity metrics, but rather you have to understand where are you in that process? Did you do it for the sake of Allah? And are you having an Allah centric goal? Meaning do you want Allah's pleasure? Do you want to go to paradise? And are you doing it in the right way? And are you doing it for His pleasure? And are you maximizing your success from the point of view that you don't only want for example, 10,000 people memorizing the Quran

00:40:00--> 00:40:44

But you want 10,000 people not only to memorize the Quran but to become the Quran, as you mentioned very, very eloquently. You know someone who, who, who fosse for example, is, is, you know, if you know about fasting, it doesn't mean you're, you're someone who fasts. It's like being a Muslim, you're in a state of surrender, you're in a state of peaceful surrender to Allah subhanho wa taala. It's a way of being not just a way of knowing. And yes, you have to have knowledge to be, but being is greater than knowing because you can have abstract knowledge and don't do anything with it. You can know all of the atom thicker, but never become a personal vicar. So, am I summarizing

00:40:44--> 00:41:00

holistically what you said from beginning to end so far? Yes, you are. Let me clarify a little bit by saying that I don't see this as numbers versus tusky. No, okay. I'm saying you need the skier to get the numbers lower. This is the method

00:41:02--> 00:41:32

you will you think you have numbers, but if you do the skier, and if your heart is pure, those numbers will be 10,000 and more. Allahu Akbar. That is the one that is the link. That's the way to get it. Allah not this or that. Allah. Right. That is the point. Okay, so the next question I have, in the context of the Dow sector, the Dow was fear gonna interrupt you? Of course you can. Yeah.

00:41:33--> 00:41:39

So therefore, to get the numbers, you have to forget about the numbers and focus on the scale.

00:41:41--> 00:41:43

Okay. Right.

00:41:44--> 00:41:55

This is where we are saying, forget the number just say, forget the numbers, what? No, we need the numbers. But if you really want the numbers, you got to focus on yourself.

00:41:57--> 00:41:59

Good, only then we'll look at the numbers.

00:42:00--> 00:42:03

So forget the numbers to get the numbers.

00:42:07--> 00:42:45

And one would argue practically and even from a design perspective, you should do both in parallel, you should do the action. And keep on refining the action. Because only through the action, you get a class you don't just give it up. But at the same time you have to work on internalizing the dean, being an embodiment of Islam, and just trying your best and getting closer to Allah subhana wa sallam freeing yourself from the spiritual diseases, which can prevent your success and the organization's success and the entire Ummah success. So would you agree that it's a parallel thing? It's not one or the other? No, not even parallel. The numbers are the result.

00:42:48--> 00:42:48

Leave the result.

00:42:50--> 00:43:35

The result is because of something you are doing. So focus on that something. And that something is your task yet it is the acquisition of knowledge is the preparation of the art and to receive that knowledge, it is our behavior, it is our o'clock. All of this will result in the lumbar, so forget the numbers. Okay, that's for sure. Let me refine what I said. I agree with that. What I'm saying is, when you're working on something, you're working on yourself, but from a doubt context, you're also working on the action of giving dower so I agree, the numbers will come as srebp Alehissalaam says indeed my success is only from Allah alone successes from Allah. So what we're saying here is

00:43:35--> 00:43:43

we're not making a false dichotomy of focus on the internal then do the action that our we're seeing during those things at the same time.

00:43:44--> 00:43:45

And then the numbers will come.

00:43:47--> 00:44:19

Yeah, obviously action without me speaking as part of the part of the working on yourself. But the vision is important because there are some people's I think sometimes maybe they say just focus inside and do the action later by handler. Okay, that's clear. So in the context of the data sector, my beloved chef, you write in your book about the need or the necessity of the importance of having an extraordinary lofty goal, okay. What were you trying to convey and why is it important?

00:44:21--> 00:44:25

You know, again, we go to this motivational speakers issue.

00:44:28--> 00:44:35

Think about this. Somebody is staring at the base camp at the bottom of Mount Everest.

00:44:37--> 00:44:40

Does he? Does he need a motivational speech?

00:44:44--> 00:44:49

Right, no way. He doesn't need it. Why? Because the mountain motivates him.

00:44:51--> 00:44:56

Even to get to the base camp requires an enormous level of physical fitness.

00:44:58--> 00:44:59

You can't just you don't go there by helicopter

00:45:00--> 00:45:01

You want you trek up.

00:45:02--> 00:45:20

So somebody who went to the base camp is someone who's already spent a couple of years if not more, preparing himself getting the level of physical fitness, then all the equipment and whatnot he needs, and now he's standing at the base camp, you're only talking about motivation, the mountain motivates him.

00:45:22--> 00:45:36

But if you take the same thing, Mount Everest is eight kilometers long, eight kilometers tall, right? So why is it usually Hamza, I'm going to go out of my house, or my gate, and I will walk 10 kilometers.

00:45:37--> 00:45:47

So you must give me a medal. And I'm equal to Edmund Hillary, who climbed Mount Everest because he only walked eight kilometers on earth. He wasn't flying right.

00:45:49--> 00:45:55

He also walked here about eight kilometers on Earth, and but I walked 10 kilometers also on Earth.

00:45:57--> 00:45:58

But I will say

00:45:59--> 00:46:08

no, we are not by a longshot why because it is not the Earth, it is the gradient it is the angle of the earth which comes.

00:46:10--> 00:46:16

So that is the that is the thing. Why an extraordinary goal because the goal itself motivates

00:46:18--> 00:46:23

it's the nature of extraordinary goals, to inspire extraordinary effort.

00:46:26--> 00:46:30

Nobody rises to low expectations, people rise to high expectations.

00:46:34--> 00:46:43

So that's the that's the reason that was actually taken as soon as you know, as a as a leadership trainer. Now I've been doing this thing now for almost 40 years.

00:46:44--> 00:46:52

The most difficult thing absolutely without parallel of the most difficult thing is to get people to change their beliefs.

00:46:54--> 00:47:03

You can get people to change attitude, you can get people to change behavior very easily. I have a book called hiring winners.

00:47:05--> 00:47:09

It's a book on on behavioral interviewing, and so on. So in the book on hiring,

00:47:10--> 00:47:16

the thing I say there is higher values, train skills.

00:47:19--> 00:47:22

Never try to train values, you won't succeed.

00:47:23--> 00:47:31

If you want people have high integrity, hire people have high integrity don't hire Boris Johnson and expect him to give you high integrity it's not gonna happen.

00:47:33--> 00:47:39

Right the British people under to that to the cost. The the point of saying here is that

00:47:40--> 00:47:48

the most difficult thing is to change people's values and to change people's beliefs. That was the goal of rasa Selim.

00:47:50--> 00:47:58

He was not focused on behavior behavior was a result of that the Salah was behavior as a result of changing who you worship.

00:48:01--> 00:48:08

So he didn't call people and say, Look, I will train you Inshallah, you know, if nothing, it'll at least improve your flexibility and it will give you better digestion though.

00:48:12--> 00:48:20

So the goal is so almost impossible if you think about this, so Allah what on earth I mean, jasola Couldn't you think of something easier?

00:48:21--> 00:48:22

No.

00:48:24--> 00:48:28

The goal is fires, the bigger the goal, the bigger the inspiration.

00:48:30--> 00:49:08

Subhan Allah Zakarpattia and this is interesting because the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa salam he told us in the Hadith, if you're going to ask for Jana then ask for for the dose, right, the highest level of gender. Also Allah says in the Quran, you know, those who just you know, those who ask for the for the dunya in the Astra. This is where the acceptance of the success lies, right. So this is very important because the Quran and the Sunnah they, they advocate and they promote and they inspire having this lofty goal and hamdulillah Well, a quick what you said in the beginning chef, that you know, people need support. People need community support, they need a team, they need

00:49:08--> 00:49:46

people around them to be successful. And you said that was one of the kinds of personal issue that you're facing. So linked to this having a lofty goal. We know it can't be achieved alone. Look at the best person who walked on this planet, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam from a practical point of view. He didn't do it alone. He had his Sahaba and the Sahaba had the tabby Ian and so on and so forth. So from the end, we know you know, 80 years after the greatest calamity that hit this ummah, and the greatest calamity, to have hit this ummah is not the Mongol invasion. It's not the ransacking of Baghdad, it was the death of our beloved Prophet salallahu it he was sent an 80 years

00:49:46--> 00:49:59

after his death, sort of mocking it, he was sent a movie in Matan in Pakistan, we're in Spain. So the achievements were happening after the death of asylum because a lofty goal, you know, a very lofty vision transcends your lifetime. So

00:50:00--> 00:50:25

Obviously such an obstacle cannot be achieved alone, whatever lofty goal that we select. And obviously the lofty goal has to be Allah centric and Africa centric, meaning you should want the pleasure of Allah. And we should have Allah in mind from the point of view that we're doing it for his sake. So in this context, how does a leader who has who has, who has this lofty goal, develop and motivate a team in order for such a goal to be achieved?

00:50:26--> 00:50:26

Okay.

00:50:28--> 00:50:36

Two things, two words they forget does remind me one is weighing scale, and two is foundation stones. Okay, weighing scale.

00:50:37--> 00:50:38

Okay, yep.

00:50:41--> 00:50:51

I'm gonna get back also to what I said with regard to user what's the disappointment as in getting sufficient support from our own people now.

00:50:53--> 00:50:57

I don't know if you've seen this, but any of our

00:50:58--> 00:51:15

you know, the viewers and listeners, especially in the Indian subcontinent, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and probably the same thing applies. In Africa as in Middle East. If you go to a shop to buy food grains, you know, rice, wheat,

00:51:16--> 00:51:19

barley, maize, whatnot, corn.

00:51:20--> 00:51:24

So say you get you go to the shop, and you tell the guy I want

00:51:25--> 00:51:26

20 kilograms of rice.

00:51:28--> 00:51:44

So you we have these weighing scales, you know, the typical scale, like two pans and a pivot in the middle. So what this guy does is he takes 20 kilogram weight, and he puts it in one pan. So now this pan is sitting on the countertop, the other pan is up in the air.

00:51:46--> 00:51:57

Then he takes a scoop, and he takes the grain Out of the sack, and he pours it into the pan on the top. So this pan is here is pouring grain to them.

00:51:58--> 00:52:09

So now you ask for 20 kilograms is a 20 kilogram weight here. He's pouring it. Now imagine the scene. And I would suggest to people just go and do this physically see for yourself.

00:52:10--> 00:52:13

This guy is now put in five kilograms.

00:52:14--> 00:52:22

Do you see any change? I mean, this this pan is sitting on the on the countertop? This Mariza? Do you see any change? No.

00:52:23--> 00:52:45

He keeps pouring is maybe put into 10 kilograms? They made 15 kilograms. Is there any change? No. They're still sitting on Canada, they're still up in the air. Now Has it ever happened to you that this guy's has to. He says, You know what? This is not working. Right? At this cannot work? Why don't you go to some other shop?

00:52:46--> 00:52:48

There's no way that 20 kilograms is going to happen.

00:52:49--> 00:52:51

When you do that, he'll never do that.

00:52:53--> 00:52:54

If you send it to me love.

00:52:55--> 00:53:25

What does he do, he continues to put in that race until he comes to 90, maybe 19 and a half kilograms. Now 19 and a half kilograms, you'll see there is some movement, this ban, which was sitting on the countertop is starting to go up and the other one is start to come down the guy now, instead of using a scope, he uses his hat. He takes the grain in his ad and he releases it a little bit at a time like this.

00:53:27--> 00:53:35

Until the pans are level, and then he's a smart guy. So he puts in a little more so you are happy. And it gives you your 20 kilograms of grain.

00:53:36--> 00:53:52

Now, what do you learn from this? What did I learn from this? I learned two inalienable fundamental truths. First truth. Until 19 and a half kilograms, nothing will happen.

00:53:54--> 00:53:59

Second fundamental truth at 20 kilograms, the balance will dip.

00:54:01--> 00:54:02

Both are equally true.

00:54:04--> 00:54:14

So if you're doing the work of the hour, and you say, Well, I'm working so hard, and so on and so on. Like I said, you know, I wish I wish I wish there was more support. Yes, I agree. I wish it was more support. But have I stopped working because of that? No.

00:54:16--> 00:54:24

Because I know that I'm still not at 19 and a half. Will I get to 19 and a half before I don't know.

00:54:26--> 00:54:27

Maybe I will, maybe I won't.

00:54:28--> 00:54:30

It doesn't matter because I was once I was watching.

00:54:31--> 00:54:37

So we work with patients and we say if nothing is happening, guess what? Nothing is supposed to happen.

00:54:38--> 00:54:40

That is how it's supposed to be.

00:54:43--> 00:54:43

But

00:54:45--> 00:54:52

the other truth is equally true. When you get to 20. Actually, you've been before 20 The balance will

00:54:54--> 00:54:54

load or what?

00:54:56--> 00:54:58

My second node foundation starts

00:55:00--> 00:55:02

supposing you are a rock

00:55:05--> 00:55:29

now there is somebody who was building this iconic absolutely fabulous structure Call it what you are you and call it a budget Call it what you want but some beautiful fantastic structure. And part of the design is that this structure the front of it is going to be shaved in, in this marble or granite or something you are this block of granite

00:55:30--> 00:55:39

and I'm another block of granite. And we've got a whole bunch of blocks of granite and we say You know what, I want to be on that front

00:55:41--> 00:55:46

I want to be on the I want to be polished I want to be on the front of this building, the world must see me.

00:55:48--> 00:55:49

So, somebody says to you look

00:55:51--> 00:55:57

before the building get to that stage where they start shooting the front with with with granite

00:56:00--> 00:56:07

there has to be a foundation you got to dig in the ground and people like you right like you have to go in there

00:56:08--> 00:56:11

to be buried never to be seen again.

00:56:15--> 00:56:18

And unless that happens, there is no building

00:56:19--> 00:56:23

there will be no structure. There can be no structure

00:56:25--> 00:56:35

are you willing to go into the foundation to be buried, never to be seen again? So that that structure can stand on your shoulders?

00:56:37--> 00:56:38

Nobody will know you're there

00:56:39--> 00:56:40

except

00:56:41--> 00:56:43

the constructor except the contract to build it

00:56:48--> 00:56:49

but because you are there

00:56:50--> 00:56:51

that's such a sense.

00:56:53--> 00:56:55

When Musa when Nova or the Allahu

00:56:57--> 00:56:59

at the end of a very short life

00:57:00--> 00:57:02

God was sure he is what got killed in

00:57:03--> 00:57:07

what success DDC? Sure some people accepted Islam at his hands but

00:57:09--> 00:57:12

within quotes, successes spread of Islam and so on and so forth.

00:57:14--> 00:57:19

When Hobi been Addy for the Alonso was being chopped up into pieces

00:57:22--> 00:57:22

and they asked him

00:57:26--> 00:57:36

What does Mohamed mean to you? Satellizer they didn't actually ask him that question. But I'm gonna lead into that for some another I think incidentally this by this by Hobart Zuma.

00:57:37--> 00:57:44

They asked him How would you like Mohamed Salah Alia Salah to be in your place and you go free?

00:57:46--> 00:57:47

What did he say?

00:57:49--> 00:58:07

He said, I will not want even a thorn to prick. Wamba salatu salam and I would and I am free and unhappy with my family I would not even want that. He said if my life goes to prevent a thorn from breaking his foot, my life is well spent.

00:58:10--> 00:58:14

So as they chopped him up, he looked over at the heavens and he said Allah

00:58:16--> 00:58:17

sent by salaam

00:58:18--> 00:58:20

to Muhammad Rasul Allah

00:58:25--> 00:58:30

is not about standing as he Nashi than saying Salatu was Salam ala Rasulillah No.

00:58:32--> 00:58:33

These are the rocks.

00:58:35--> 00:58:40

These are the rocks on which the structure stands.

00:58:42--> 00:58:51

And there are so many of them. So we're here with Raphael Levana. What success did she see? She said Lila illAllah. And she was killed

00:58:52--> 00:58:53

her husband?

00:58:55--> 00:58:59

A couple years ago, Allah Ma, ma ma? What success Did he see

00:59:03--> 00:59:03

so many of them.

00:59:05--> 00:59:11

But if they had not agreed to be buried in the earth, never to be seen again.

00:59:13--> 00:59:14

There will be no Islam.

00:59:16--> 00:59:17

There will be no structure to stand on.

00:59:19--> 00:59:21

So today we have all these shiny faces.

00:59:23--> 00:59:24

But the reality is there

00:59:37--> 00:59:42

this is a very pertinent check because I think

00:59:45--> 00:59:56

many of our dads, many of the preachers, many of the scholars who are out there in the world, they have to realize that they're standing on the shoulders of giants. And not only that they're standing on the shoulders of people that they don't even know

00:59:57--> 00:59:59

and we're standing on these

01:00:00--> 01:00:05

foundation stones that only Allah knows. And we don't even really know.

01:00:06--> 01:00:38

And I think this is extremely important, especially with our context because sometimes it's about the speaker, it's about the leader, it's about the one in the front. And forget that in actual fact for all of this, even to be possible, fundamentally is because of Allah. But he has placed certain foundation stones, in order for the structure and the building of dower to be erected and to stay upright and stable and strong. Allah has placed certain foundation stones and only Allah knows about them, and we don't.

01:00:39--> 01:01:07

And sometimes we chase being, you know, we want to be the windows and we want to be the, you know, the what people could see. But fundamentally, one would argue that the foundation stones get the most reward, right? Because they had a class or at least more a class because they're not known. And they were willing to be buried and gotten they were willing to be buried and forgotten in order for the dollar to be successful.

01:01:08--> 01:01:15

And this story, of course, please in India, you would have heard the name of Chava EULA

01:01:16--> 01:01:23

Moses he wrote the book conclusive the argument from God Yes, yes, yes.

01:01:29--> 01:01:30

Who did the Lord believer

01:01:33--> 01:01:33

now,

01:01:35--> 01:01:42

one of his sons, I can't remember exactly if it was Yeah, because he's also one of the others all of them are great scholars and great modernity.

01:01:44--> 01:01:48

So, he had a lecture in the Jama Masjid in Jeju,

01:01:50--> 01:01:54

the Mughal mosque the big che mosque in Delhi

01:01:55--> 01:02:10

and obviously 1000s of people because you know, he was very well known and the 1000s of people is huge crowd and obviously, those days there were no bikes and so on. So, they used to have people who communicated so they will listen to him and they would repeat

01:02:11--> 01:02:19

and this happened. So this was after Isha. So by the time the whole lecture finished maybe hour hour and a half

01:02:20--> 01:02:21

it was late in the night

01:02:25--> 01:02:28

he finished finish the lecture he gave inside

01:02:29--> 01:02:37

in one of the rooms of the budget and as he was sitting there and some of his special Marines they were with him

01:02:38--> 01:02:39

a man came

01:02:41--> 01:02:46

now this man was a villager from some village in central India

01:02:48--> 01:02:52

maybe a farmer or something some format he came and he said yeah

01:02:53--> 01:03:00

How unfortunate I am. This is what happened he said you know, I came from my village to listen to you.

01:03:01--> 01:03:09

But I buy villages far away and you know transportation and all kinds of stuff and I got delayed and when I get here I find that your lectures or

01:03:10--> 01:03:25

your speeches over now what why is it I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for myself that you know, I took all this time but I came all this way and now I've lost everything. Obviously, those days equals no no refer to you know, YouTube channels on so or, or here's a cassette no

01:03:28--> 01:03:31

Zsuzsa, Jabra granulizer trim Sudha

01:03:32--> 01:03:41

inside him down, he stood up and he delivered his entire lecture that same one of ours to that one villager.

01:03:43--> 01:03:47

Right, same passion, same that I everything.

01:03:49--> 01:03:59

That man was absolutely delighted and he you know, it gets to that he said that he blessed him and he gave a lot of the ions on site and they left

01:04:01--> 01:04:03

after the man went his Marine,

01:04:04--> 01:04:08

his disciples they said to him, this is a very strange thing.

01:04:09--> 01:04:34

How is it possible that you know you get this lecture to 10,000 people and with all this passion and you know all the evidence in the Quran and Hadith and so on. And then this one guy whose is one we don't even know who is this guy some poor miracle from somewhere. It's not as if he's the governor or the king or nothing is no we don't know is we will probably never see him again.

01:04:37--> 01:04:43

And you give the same lecture to that one guy with the same quality. Just one How's it possible?

01:04:46--> 01:04:52

So Jagga he said to them, he said, you know, you have been with me for so many years and your best time

01:04:54--> 01:04:55

is it looks like you learn nothing.

01:04:56--> 01:04:59

It's one of those Yeah. Why do you say that? He said because

01:05:00--> 01:05:05

Uh, when I was speaking to 10,000 people I was trying to please.

01:05:08--> 01:05:12

And when I'm speaking to that one man, I'm trying to please the same one.

01:05:13--> 01:05:14

What difference does it make to be?

01:05:16--> 01:05:19

Whether there are 10,000 or 10 million or one or nobody?

01:05:20--> 01:05:21

What difference does it make?

01:05:24--> 01:05:28

That is what I meant by forget the numbers to get the numbers.

01:05:30--> 01:05:34

You got 10,000 He got his 10,000 Because he didn't care about the 10,000 he cared about

01:05:40--> 01:05:45

you know, that was many years ago, about almost 2025 years ago, I was in a

01:05:46--> 01:05:48

I went to an ESA in Los Angeles.

01:05:50--> 01:06:00

So there I met this Java which game from there not be a little village between the ones that Pakistan border

01:06:01--> 01:06:02

they are what they call the solid.

01:06:04--> 01:06:16

These people would barely speak English. So you're sitting and you're drinking some tea and chatting with them. So as the as to where I'm from, and you know, which isn't a big city and this is big, there's a lot of Java to go from here

01:06:17--> 01:06:23

is a big place. There's a no no this is just one small village. So So then how come all of this

01:06:24--> 01:06:26

there is a general sustain story?

01:06:27--> 01:06:32

This air that one of our village guys

01:06:33--> 01:06:39

event is Java. Public people gave an event with them, events went for months or whatever he spent.

01:06:40--> 01:06:52

He came back when he came back he did what web will usually do which is Thursday evening or Wednesday evening, he said after slavery we stood up and said after Salah after the Sunnah,

01:06:53--> 01:06:55

we will speak about humanity okay.

01:06:56--> 01:07:00

So not talking about demand you can give to his standard phrase.

01:07:02--> 01:07:09

So this man said the same thing happened which happens always which is that even those who normally prayed so nothing the masjid they left.

01:07:11--> 01:07:12

So there was nobody that

01:07:13--> 01:07:36

he said this man, however, did a funny thing. He said what he did was, you know, in our massages in, in the Support Unit, we have caps. So usually these gaps are made of straw or something. They're all stacked up. So anyone comes to prey who doesn't have a cap, he will bear this capital very, we're very particular about this spring with a video covered.

01:07:37--> 01:07:58

So there was this stack of caps. What is man did was he went and he took a bunch of caps. He arranged those caps in a semicircle on the on the carpet of the muzzle floor of the budget in front of him. He stood up and he delivered his man his lecture to those caps.

01:08:00--> 01:08:11

Company back then he collected all the capital back and he came and he prayed for a cup of Salah and he is waiting before Allah is a yalla as he was you must say

01:08:12--> 01:08:13

I'm talking to caps.

01:08:16--> 01:08:25

They said that this man not only did that one time, he said he continued to do that week after week after week after week.

01:08:27--> 01:08:32

So they said a month past two months past three months past six months past. He said then

01:08:33--> 01:08:35

talk started in our village

01:08:36--> 01:08:51

and people say to one another, why are we doing this to him? He is our brother he's of our village is related to us. All the man is saying is covered. Listen to the great greatness of all Liza what's our problem? Why Why don't we go and listen.

01:08:53--> 01:09:02

And they said to each other it was very bad. We are we are we are at fault. We cannot treat our brother like this. We are insulting him for what he's not asked us for anything.

01:09:04--> 01:09:09

He said people started city and that the rest is history.

01:09:12--> 01:09:23

You focus on the process, not on the result. That's the reason why Allah subhanaw taala taught us to ask for the process. It handiness the rattle was the P

01:09:25--> 01:09:27

or like guide me to the path

01:09:28--> 01:09:40

into that given region to know guide me to the path. The benefit of focusing on the process is if you get the process right, the destination the goal is automatic.

01:09:42--> 01:09:45

And it is automatic in the right way

01:09:47--> 01:09:56

that Islam in Islam with Allah subhanaw taala both the destination and the path both the goal and the process are important the means and the ends.

01:09:58--> 01:09:59

In Islam, there's no concept of the

01:10:00--> 01:10:48

And at any means, or any audio means right? And is not important. No, numbers are important. But getting the numbers in the right way is equally important. If you focus only on the numbers, it is possible that you get the wearer, that you end up getting numbers to means which may be, you know, wrong in several ways. But if you focus on the means you focus on the parrot on the Spirit, then the numbers will automatically come, the goal will automatically come and they will come in the right way. And you will please Allah, that's the most important thing. Absolutely. Because, as we said, Success is the greatest drug the greatest triumph which is going to Jannah attaining the pleasure of

01:10:48--> 01:11:30

Allah subhanho wa taala. to redefine success, how do we define success? We absolutely don't define success for our work like the like Coca Cola, does it or Pepsi, does it? Yeah, sure. And our vision must be connected to the Islamic definition of success. Now, coming back to the question, which I know you went off in a different direction, but I think is quite connected about how do we develop a team in order to achieve that lofty goals? One gathering from what you've said so far? It's, we need a team that have the right values that follow the correct process in order to achieve that lofty goal. Yeah, absolutely. It is, it is you you have to get the right people. You recruit the right

01:11:30--> 01:11:40

people. It happens, it happens slowly, it happens over time. But one of the most important things is to focus on what each person brings to the team.

01:11:42--> 01:11:57

And don't and where there may be a possibility, in some cases that you may not even like somebody or it may be some ego issue or some personality problem. One was not allowed that to come in the way of getting that person on board.

01:11:59--> 01:12:02

Again, back to zero. Take somebody like herbivory

01:12:03--> 01:12:04

armouring. Alas,

01:12:05--> 01:12:07

I was Vianne. Right?

01:12:10--> 01:12:24

They're not necessarily the nicest of people, they're not necessarily people that receive love from day one. These people what is what is what is what is after his blood, I mean, they were people who tried to kill him. The only reason they didn't succeed is because Allah did not allow them to succeed.

01:12:26--> 01:12:33

But when it came to recruiting them on the team rasuna as a result, I'm treated them like his dearest and closest friends.

01:12:36--> 01:13:19

Because he saw the value of what Hanuman volley could bring to his team. And you know, as you say, the rest is history. And they became his closest companions. They began exactly did it become I mean, they did become, and that's the result that is the reason of the way he did them. Yes, because he related and related to them in a way that optimize them. And this is where he reminds me of the story of Fedora Debian or mail. Now for dollar even Amir was someone who nominally became Muslim, but wanted to kill the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and he was circumambulating the kava and I think he was saying something to himself. And the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam noticed

01:13:19--> 01:13:58

this, and he asked him, you know what you think to yourself. And for dollar, even America, basically, I think, just dismissed it. And then the President put his hand on fidelity, but I made his heart or chest and said, ask Allah to forgive you. Now, for Allah even after he said, After this point, no one was more beloved to me than the Prophet sallallahu ala he was sent them. So this is someone who wanted to kill the process on them. But look at how the process I'm related with his behavior with his way of being with his words, he related to people in the right context in the right way to optimize them to get the best version of them. And I call this how you relate is what

01:13:58--> 01:14:32

you create, right? How you relate with what you create. Just like for example, Chef, the person who had helped him he had a lot of forbearance and the famous story of the Jewish man who came up to him and pulled him by the color or by the cloth, and he left the mark, I believe, and once the hobby was angry, and the person responded with Haleem, with forbearance, just like what it says and sort of facade diversity that you for good and evil are not the same repelled by that which is better, and between two people there's any enmity will tend to intimate friendship, and this is difficult except for the patient. And this Jewish man he became Muslim because he was waiting for one more sign of

01:14:32--> 01:14:36

Prophethood he saw two signs you needed one more, and that sign was

01:14:37--> 01:14:59

not repelling by that which is better, essentially. And we know that lmsc repenting by that which is better is repelling by that which is more virtuous. And by that which is more beautiful. So this is this this is very important. So you're what you're basically saying is the process I'm in his relation to the Sahaba optimism but at the same time, he selected the right people for the right job irrespective

01:15:00--> 01:15:31

Have you have anything else right? And in our context, when we want to hire people, we shouldn't do it because Oh, I like him more, or he plays chess with me on Sundays, or he likes the same coffee as me or whatever the case may be. But it's because I truly believe that this person has what it takes internally and externally, in order to achieve the results and my affinity towards him, my relation towards him should be irrelevant as much as possible. So this is a very, very good point. So check following on from this.

01:15:33--> 01:16:00

Now, this is interesting. Now, you mentioned in your book, putting putting oneself on the line, in other words, courage, right. And I would argue, a lot of academics and intellectuals and even do art, they lack what I would call a sense of courage from that perspective. Why is courage so important in the Dow? What does it mean when you put yourself on the line?

01:16:01--> 01:16:03

Okay, very nice question.

01:16:04--> 01:16:19

My courage amount to sort of define or broaden the definition, it's not only or rather, maybe in a modern Java context, it might not be related to any physical danger at all in the first place. Right? Sure.

01:16:21--> 01:16:28

Irrespective of consequences, right? Well, seeing the right thing. Exactly. And also courage as in

01:16:29--> 01:16:40

your development in physical consequences. But it's a question of doing something and you're not getting you're not getting success at Will you still continue to persevere and so on. And so all of this takes a lot of courage.

01:16:43--> 01:16:48

So this courage is if I take it and put it in another context, which is entrepreneurial,

01:16:50--> 01:17:11

one of the very important things that we look for, and say, for example, as a venture capitalist, if somebody is making a pitch to you and asking you to invest, one of the most important thing they see is, what is the level of your own investment in your, in your startup?

01:17:12--> 01:17:20

Because the reality is that only startups in which the promoter has significant investment

01:17:22--> 01:17:23

can go to success.

01:17:24--> 01:17:34

So unless you have put your neck on the on the line, I'm not going to fund you, because this is your baby. And if you are interested enough

01:17:35--> 01:17:39

to literally put your neck on the line, I'm not interested.

01:17:40--> 01:17:50

Right, I'm not sure that my money is in the right place, because then you are going to be playing Ghana with the money. I don't want that right, I want to return and my return will come only if your life depends on this thing.

01:17:52--> 01:17:55

So that is the meaning of God images that what is the level of your investment.

01:17:57--> 01:17:59

The the example you gave off

01:18:00--> 01:18:07

of warriors and people have knowledge, again, it's the whole issue comes to that it is not just, you know,

01:18:09--> 01:18:18

blind, being combative, and so on, which we see quite a lot. I mean, you see people in the name of Dawa, for example, being so

01:18:19--> 01:18:36

combative, without any concern for people, you know, literally sort of accosting people in the street and, and talking to them in ways which are, frankly, between between them is quite offensive. I mean, if somebody had talked to me like that, I'd be I will be offended or anything else.

01:18:37--> 01:18:42

But that's the reason because there is no there is no, you know, investment in your own money.

01:18:43--> 01:18:56

So I think that's courage is very, very important. And courage in courage means to continue despite a despite a lack of visible results.

01:18:58--> 01:19:12

By all means, look at your method, maybe the reason for lack of visible results is because the method is not working. But you don't give up you You bet you can you can change the method and make it more compatible and more more

01:19:13--> 01:19:33

effective, but you continue the effort. And that takes a lot of courage. And would you say courage will be continuing the effort, irrespective of praise, or dis premise, and irrespective of maybe the foreseeable or unforeseeable

01:19:34--> 01:19:37

obstacles or consequences right.

01:19:38--> 01:19:59

Now, obviously, there is an element of not being foolhardy and using hikma doing the right thing in the right way saying the right thing in the right way at the right time. But irrespective of those and considering those things, Courage would be saying what you have to say and doing what you have to do irrespective of foreseeable unforeseeable obstacles or

01:20:00--> 01:20:03

consequences Correct? Absolutely. She's saying what?

01:20:05--> 01:20:07

How do we develop so, so critical?

01:20:09--> 01:20:26

A lot of times people don't say what needs to be said because they're looking at the audience. You know, you might be the hottie when a masjid and you got a bunch of people who are work or businesses dealing haram. But you don't want to say anything about that because the other guy's paying your salary.

01:20:27--> 01:20:50

You know, some of the some of them are committee members and board members and whatnot. So you don't want to say that interest base earnings are haram, selling cigarettes and you know, the beer and and whatnot lottery tickets and pornography baggies in your 711 or in your convenience store all of this is haram

01:20:51--> 01:20:54

you know, you don't say that because you don't want to offend them.

01:20:55--> 01:20:58

That takes courage, there's no physical nobody's gonna beat you.

01:21:00--> 01:21:07

You probably will not even lose your job frankly speaking that that's more fear than than anything else. But okay, so you lose your job, but then who is your Rosa?

01:21:09--> 01:21:11

Is it Allah is this? Or is it these people?

01:21:14--> 01:21:33

So it that takers that that that that is very important to do that. That's why I sometimes tell people when I when I teach, when I do courses on doing the gemba which you know, in order to get to them, I say to people very clearly if you are afraid to speak the truth on the member, don't climb the river.

01:21:35--> 01:21:40

Do not stand with me that member is the member of Rasul Allah Saracen, which is not yours,

01:21:41--> 01:21:47

when you are standing on the member you are standing in the possession in the position of Rasulullah is also.

01:21:49--> 01:22:09

So, don't violate that position. don't violate the, the sanctity of that position. I can understand that there may be a reason why you cannot say what needs to be said because you fear physical danger and so on and so forth. If you say what needs to be said, Maybe you will be hauled off to jail or something, don't say.

01:22:10--> 01:22:17

And I'm not suggesting to you that you know, you must say No, don't say brain Joomla is for doing the whole but not

01:22:18--> 01:22:20

to not do the whole value operation.

01:22:24--> 01:22:27

But if you are standing with a member, then say what needs to be said?

01:22:30--> 01:22:34

That is the that's the by definition? How do we develop courage?

01:22:37--> 01:22:43

By focusing Talaq Mala, by focusing on Allah, we say Allahu Akbar, what does it mean?

01:22:45--> 01:22:58

The simplest answer to that is that focus on Allah. Focus on the Accra, I'm going to meet Allah subhanaw taala. No matter what the greatest coward, and the most courageous person

01:23:00--> 01:23:01

are both going to be at a loss of America.

01:23:03--> 01:23:09

We see a lot after what Allah Allah Allah, no one can benefit and no one can harm except Allah.

01:23:10--> 01:23:12

And what what what are we afraid of?

01:23:15--> 01:23:20

Yeah, that is the key. The key is, is that in the heart, all of these are words very easy.

01:23:23--> 01:23:29

And, you know, in our, in our, in our culture, if you say the same thing in Arabic, it somehow sounds more, more superior.

01:23:32--> 01:23:33

And people the Obatala

01:23:36--> 01:24:12

Okay, so I was the IRC of just under three years at Hamdulillah, you know, we increased the international operations operations by thought, I think over 1,000% and the funds by over 500%. Then I moved over to over to Sapiens, which our vision is a world that receives the message of Islam and where Muslims can share and defend the faith academically, intellectually. And our strategic focus is that we are focused on doing the Dawa, in other words, in our remit, which is sharing and defending Islam, academically and intellectually, and empowering others to do so as well,

01:24:13--> 01:24:15

in the context of this leadership position that I have,

01:24:17--> 01:24:32

and I'm asking this question for a general answer and a specific answer, because I don't want you to think that you're just talking to me that you're talking to everybody. In this context, what would be key pieces of advice that someone like myself

01:24:33--> 01:24:39

and are in similar positions need to take very seriously?

01:24:40--> 01:24:57

In order for us to have success in the Dow? Yes. You've mentioned many things already about Tesco to knifes, you mentioned about following the process. You've mentioned about having a lot in mind. You mentioned about you know, not chasing the numbers, but you know, actually doing the right thing and focusing on the numbers will come and so on and so forth.

01:24:59--> 01:25:00

But for

01:25:00--> 01:25:04

murmur from adding to that, what would you advise someone like myself?

01:25:07--> 01:25:15

And I'm actually asked him the question quite seriously, because I want to, I need advice. I do need advice, I do something share.

01:25:17--> 01:25:31

A few days ago, I went through very, I don't know, I don't know what to call it kind of painful experience. Like, maybe it was like, I had a tornado in my mind and a mountain on my back.

01:25:32--> 01:25:32

And

01:25:35--> 01:25:43

that's a tough experience to have. And I think, you know, in leadership positions, or these type of positions,

01:25:44--> 01:25:50

if someone's not in that type of pain, and I think maybe something is wrong, because it is quite heavy.

01:25:51--> 01:26:36

And, and I didn't know how to deal with it from the perspective of how do I unpack all of these internal emotions and this weight. And I remember prior to that, or during that process, a person who is a very, very good brother, he was driving and I was basically exclaiming, I was like saying off, I was like, really perturbed and worried about the state of the data sector, I was really worried about maybe things like conflicts of interest or too much egoism and individualism and so on and so forth. And I was lost in that. Now usually, I'm quite a, you know, mature, stable guy, generally speaking, but there is a lot emotions behind the scenes. And as I was expressing this, he

01:26:36--> 01:26:38

mentioned something very profound. He basically said,

01:26:41--> 01:26:47

you've got yourself to worry about and he doesn't know very good English, right? He said, You've got us, you got yourself to worry about.

01:26:49--> 01:26:59

And that just really reframed everything, he made me realize that in reality, you are your greatest enemy, the enemy is the greatest enemy from the point of view your ego.

01:27:00--> 01:27:24

And, you know, you just need to do the right thing, have a class focus on your sins, because everything that we see around us could be just a manifestation of our disconnection with ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada now that was my state for good or bad reasons everything is here. And you know that happens sometimes. And I think that's a natural consequence of being in certain positions

01:27:26--> 01:27:28

advise me talk to me talk to the OMA

01:27:32--> 01:27:49

let me give you a very simple way of looking at this and it probably applies to not just the Dow sector or the Ottawa but to practically everyone and that is the the oral statement, sharpen your axe or sharpen your saw

01:27:53--> 01:27:58

remember the person sharpening the saw or sharpening the axe? That is not as good

01:28:01--> 01:28:05

if you ask him, what's your goal he wants to sharpen the sword.

01:28:07--> 01:28:11

But unless he sharpen the saw, his goal will never be achieved.

01:28:14--> 01:28:18

Right. So, he has to forget the goal and spend time sharpening the song

01:28:20--> 01:28:32

and then when he gets on with now saying the word or cutting those I hate to use terms like cutting trees and so on, because of our different angles, but purely as an example of say, unless the Shabbos is saw.

01:28:34--> 01:28:47

Now, you can take this and apply it to practically anything else in the world and say that unless you focus on that thing, the ultimate goal will be achieved. But if you are the person is this your goal? No, it's not my goal.

01:28:48--> 01:28:54

And which person is going to say my goal is to jump on this door. So my goal is my goal is to solve that road.

01:28:55--> 01:29:00

But it I know that it is not going to happen unless I sharpen the salt.

01:29:02--> 01:29:13

So my goal is to communicate Islam in a powerful persuasive way to the other person. How is that going to happen? When I focus on myself

01:29:15--> 01:29:22

I focus on my myself internally, I also focus on my communication skills, I focus on how I present something

01:29:24--> 01:29:28

I take feedback, I take his I take his lie take correction

01:29:29--> 01:29:34

and I continuously improve my way of doing things.

01:29:37--> 01:29:49

Right so if you say is it is your goal to do all of this. I know my goal is to convince people but I know that unless I present I do all of this stuff.

01:29:50--> 01:29:52

That goal will not be achieved.

01:29:53--> 01:29:56

That is where Allah subhanaw taala set resources and then

01:29:57--> 01:29:59

Comilla Illa Kaleena

01:30:01--> 01:30:02

That is not the goal.

01:30:05--> 01:30:12

But unless you do that, unless you charge your phone, you can talk it's gonna the battery will die

01:30:18--> 01:30:39

so that's the way to differentiate it. Now if you're if you're charging the phone if you're sharpening the axe, it doesn't mean you forgot about your goal. No, no, I haven't. I am really focused on my goal. That's why I'm doing this. So basically, I'm going to bring it person to myself, the kind of situation that I found myself in maybe a day or a couple of days ago. The key advice here would be

01:30:40--> 01:31:04

sharpen your spiritual axe. Connect with Allah. Find out what your shortcomings are, find out what your sins are, find out how you're relating and behaving, fix your frame of reference your mindset. Are you seeking Allah's help before you seek other people's help? Do you really have telecoil? Are you enrolling people in your behavior? Are you being that which you want other people to become?

01:31:05--> 01:31:27

Is that when you transition? Yeah, in one in one small piece, at the end of the longest I had in the Quran. That other end Don't be Dany la gente Musa maphack to at the bottom of that page 15 line Allah said it of Allah, where you can live a common law.

01:31:28--> 01:31:31

He said have Taqwa of Allah and Allah will teach you

01:31:33--> 01:32:07

to one. So have the four walls around it and this is what I need to do it myself which is, am I concerned about Allah subhanaw taala pleasure. That was not fear of Allah. This is the other problem with the way we translate that why is fear of the displeasure of Allah? Fear of displeasing the one I love the most. Because Allah Samantha said Who are the believers? These are the believers are those who love Allah azza doble de la mano a shadow Bonilla, they not only love Allah, they love Allah more than anything and anyone else.

01:32:08--> 01:32:09

So I

01:32:11--> 01:32:17

am concerned and my one and only and fundamental concern is is Allah please will be

01:32:18--> 01:32:26

amazing. If you keep that concern that Allah will teach you. Allah will did you want to need to say Allah will teach you what you have to do.

01:32:29--> 01:32:31

And that's the reason why he knows Allah

01:32:32--> 01:32:42

said to somebody one day allegorically speaking as well, I agree with him, and I'm sure you have some experiences like this. He said, Why is it difficult to believe in why?

01:32:43--> 01:32:44

He's said even I get it.

01:32:47--> 01:32:58

Now, he's not claiming to be a prophet. He's not saying I'm getting what he has in Jabril talking to me. But he's saying that there are times in my life, when I know that I'm seeing something that I had never thought of before.

01:32:59--> 01:33:13

It hands down to me several instances, several instances in my life, where literally, I felt like an out of body experience. I'm watching myself saying things that I know, I don't know this.

01:33:14--> 01:33:20

I never thought of this. How am I seeing this? Where did it come from? This ham this is

01:33:21--> 01:33:37

I mean, or, for example, I want to I'm writing a hotbar or I want to read a football. And that morning, I opened my email. And there is this person who's not even a Muslim, who literally sent me practically

01:33:38--> 01:33:38

the one

01:33:40--> 01:33:46

that he's talking about whatever I want to talk about is putting in now this isn't the LiDAR, Allah subhanaw taala sense.

01:33:49--> 01:33:52

But the important thing here, I don't want to give the impression here that I have a great Buddha here therefore

01:33:55--> 01:34:08

please, I always tell myself while I may Allah protect me from myself. I mean, we really must think and say that, you know, we do things and we must do things in a way. Have that primary concern. Is Allah pleased with this?

01:34:09--> 01:34:12

And when we win, despite all this, we make mistakes, make it step one.

01:34:14--> 01:34:35

Yes, we make mistakes, mistakes we should seek, repent to Allah and turn back to Allah Subhan. Yeah. Okay. That is that's reassuring. It's it's reaffirming, as well. Exactly. So, tell me a story. There's a story you told me once. And I almost think I forgot about it. It was about this slave. This black slave, I think.

01:34:37--> 01:34:59

And I want you to tell me this story. This is one of the most amazing stories I have heard from you. And I think people who don't know this story should know this story. It is an awesome story. And I think it's summarizes everything that we've said today in some in some way. So chef, story of this guy. Praying for read that one. Yes, yes. Okay. This is a true story of of

01:35:00--> 01:35:00

gulaman work

01:35:02--> 01:35:09

rato Laurie. He said that he was in Makkah it was a it was a very very dry drought and there was

01:35:10--> 01:35:17

sort of a situation without water And in the Haram they prayed Salah tourists

01:35:20--> 01:35:22

Abdullah Omar said I also prayed there

01:35:23--> 01:35:24

and nothing happened

01:35:26--> 01:35:31

that everyone disappeared dispersed. Abdullah Mark says I was just sitting there

01:35:32--> 01:35:35

with my back to you know, one of the columns or the wall.

01:35:38--> 01:35:39

A

01:35:40--> 01:35:47

young man, a black African guy in very sort of tattered clothes,

01:35:48--> 01:35:57

standing near the wall, and he raised his hands and he didn't have the love of watching him. So he raised his hands and he said, Yeah, Allah.

01:35:59--> 01:36:05

People are suffering. They make dua, nothing happened. He said Allah sentry

01:36:07--> 01:36:08

he said send it because I'm asking

01:36:12--> 01:36:16

another worker says that cloud came and it went

01:36:18--> 01:36:25

now this boy left and I'm the one who said I followed him and I marked the house that he entered

01:36:27--> 01:36:30

that house was the house of a slave trader.

01:36:31--> 01:36:45

So Abdullah robotic said next day I went to the house and knocked on the door that opened the door and he saw I was very famous on him they all knew him he was very happy so you came to my house and so on.

01:36:46--> 01:37:08

So I'm telling them Barack and incidentally that time so fair authority radula was staying with the low bar to the to great scholars they would integrate the market so I'm gonna work says that I said to the man I need a server so which are no no no I got the call the people and a whole long line of

01:37:09--> 01:37:14

of slaves He lined them up is a year old take your pick whatever you want.

01:37:15--> 01:37:19

Now look at all these are no none of these then you got somebody else.

01:37:21--> 01:37:32

He said no, he said no, no, you had somebody else. The man said there is one boy who is kind of sickly and weak and he's no good he can't really work out work hard. He's have news to you.

01:37:34--> 01:37:35

He said I want to see that boy.

01:37:36--> 01:37:37

So they call him

01:37:38--> 01:37:39

and it was the same guy.

01:37:41--> 01:37:44

So I'm gonna work rather than I said, this is the one I want.

01:37:45--> 01:37:50

As lifted as a no please you know this guy is good for me is Barack and Mao said no, no, no, I want this guy.

01:37:52--> 01:38:07

So now the slave trader could not refuse him because this is great chef. And so he said, Okay, I I'm gonna work but this boy and now they are walking on the way to his house.

01:38:09--> 01:38:21

As they were going, this boy was carrying something it slipped from his hand and fell down and Abdullah Warwick you know, so literally sort of he ran for this ticket. He picked it up and he gave it

01:38:22--> 01:38:35

this is why I said to him my master this is very inappropriate. I'm your slave. When you are picking up my things I'm gonna work said to him, You are not my slave. I have freed you.

01:38:37--> 01:38:38

I am your heart and

01:38:39--> 01:38:47

he said I took you from there not because I want you to serve me but because I want to serve you

01:38:49--> 01:38:50

this boy stopped

01:38:52--> 01:38:54

and he said what did you see?

01:38:57--> 01:39:01

Abdullah Mark said no nothing. No, no. He said you saw something.

01:39:03--> 01:39:05

You saw something that's what you're saying is what did you see?

01:39:06--> 01:39:09

You ever tell me? What do you see?

01:39:10--> 01:39:11

So when he pushed him and pushed him at the

01:39:12--> 01:39:32

rallies that way him this is what happened yesterday we were in the Haram and the syrup is this bad and so on. And so I was standing there and I saw you making dua and I saw those monitors in trade. And I taking you because I were going to my house and so if you're Sunni there on the lottery and you know what your company that's it, you're not there for a salad.

01:39:34--> 01:39:39

As a servant, you're not there to serve us. We I want to serve you. You are a master and not a master.

01:39:41--> 01:39:49

This boy kept silent. They continue to walk. And then they came to a place where there was a small Masjid by the side of the road.

01:39:51--> 01:39:56

This was said to him Dogra Barak. He said my master can you permit me to pray to work at Asana?

01:39:58--> 01:39:59

She said yes, of course. Please go

01:40:01--> 01:40:12

Abdullah Vergara alkalizes I was standing outside the marches watching him, he pray to the gods of Salah and he raised his hand and he said Yara, they know me to call me now.

01:40:14--> 01:40:17

Now I want to meet you call me now.

01:40:20--> 01:40:23

Abdullah said he dropped anything.

01:40:25--> 01:40:25

Luckily,

01:40:27--> 01:40:31

he said I don't want to be known. They know me now. Call me

01:40:36--> 01:40:37

so I'm Ella Swatara

01:40:38--> 01:40:40

make me more than a storyteller.

01:40:42--> 01:40:43

We tell these stories when

01:40:45--> 01:41:25

they make me the one that the story does not become a hedge against me inshallah. So she is exactly here for the story exactly for your insights. Now, I would like to request that you come again in the near future, because there's so much more to unpack and we could zoom in on specific topics like vision, strategy, organizational structure, you have a wealth of knowledge from a kind of operational strategic management point of view, and all of these insights will be very valuable, at least in some form for audiences that that could be touched or moved and inspired so they could actually get the best out of themselves and best out of their organizations and their work. So and I

01:41:25--> 01:41:31

really, really want you back on these issues in sha Allah. So Joseph color here and you know, the dog

01:41:33--> 01:42:06

video. Yeah, and every time we meet in person has been too long. I mean, I mean, every time we speak, there's always the emotions and tears. So check for me just love to hear for coming to sapien voices and we definitely see you again. And I just want to say May Allah subhanho wa Taala grant you and your loved ones and your family, the best in this life and the best in the orchestra in May Allah subhanho wa Taala shower you and your loved ones with his boundless love and mercy. Okay, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart may Allah bless you chef. Discipline for colors are coming

01:42:08--> 01:42:08

to life.