Murabaha as a Mode of Financing Murabaha within the Housing Market workshop

The salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato

hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen wa salatu, salam ala Sayidina Muhammad, while early he was savvy as you may.

So everyone has access to this, right.

So as as it was advertised, we'll be talking sha Allah about Morava as a mode of financing. And inshallah next week with me light Allah, we'll be talking about July 1, we'll be talking Musharaka or diminishing Musharaka as the mode of financing, especially within the housing market.

The other week, which is July 8, we're not sure if we're gonna do the HELOC or not, because there is a possibility that July 8 could be the day for

and it's a great opportunity for and for a bad and for fasting. So we're not sure we're going to keep the Halaqa or cancel it on July 8.

After that, we'll come back with another program shall on July 15, being the night owl. And then another chef will come another Imam will take over and do another series showing the evening later.

So today, as I said, we'll be talking about murabaha.

And this is here, this is a basic definition of whatever.

So basically here,

it's a financial agreement. And it happens all this agreement is made when a financial institution purchases the asset from a vendor or request from the client, someone needs something he needs a house he needs a car and equipment, he comes to the financial institution I call it FYI here or keep saying FYI and saying instead of saying financial institution, the FII they have I will I will buy the commodity or the property or the car, and then they resell it to the client. Usually on a deferred payment. It might happen on cash. It used to happen in the past during the early days of Islam. People used to do it for different reasons, some of them met and didn't have experience in

the market, they would come to someone else who is more experienced and they will tell him

I want you to buy something for two for me from the market and then you sell it to me with a profit.

But nowadays, it is used as a mode of financing. So usually it is done with this with with a payment plan with deferred payment plan. And with mutually it's supposed to be mutually agreed profit added to the cost of the asset.

So, basically, this is this is a very basic definition of when Morava

murabaha is a sale is not alone. This is something that we need to keep in mind.

Well Hala Holloway our Hara Mareeba Allah has permitted trade and he forbidden or he forbidden usually River

and it is based on the cost plus concept here and if you know the the initial cost, the initial price, as I said you ask a financial FYI to buy it for you, you know the initial price and you know how much they are making and the amount of the profit made by the seller.

If we don't make any reference to the cost of the of the product and the profit then it is called Musa Musa basically it means negotiation. And it is preferred by Muslim scholars Rob has not haram but we prefer Musa because Musa the the seller doesn't have the obligation to disclose the initial cost. No, he doesn't have to tell him how much I bought it. Right and how much profit I'm making. I'm selling this for 5000 I'm selling this for 10,000 like it you don't like it? This is the price right? But here we don't need it. I mean, it's not needed here our topic is about murabaha and it is used nowadays as I said in modern Islamic finance and it is used by Islamic banks, financial

institutions as a mode of financing especially in the Muslim world.

Some Muslim scholars they said 80% of the transactions made by Islamic banks and Islamic institutions in the Muslim world

80% are based on Morava

This is a statement that was made by many scholars.

And as I said, here there is we have a problem here many Muslims are not able to distinguish between murabaha based on a deferred payment plan, right

with a financing plan. And of course there is when there is

Financing, there is an increase in the price, they're not able to distinguish between this transaction. And between river.

You know, you know what I mean? Here, we tell you what's the difference is the same thing.

The Islamic bank will buy the car or the house for 10,000. And they will sell it to me for 15,000. And they go to the bank and they take a loan of 10,000 and I paid them 15,000 back. 5000 here is called interest. 5000 here is called profit, or interest. Sorry, it's called rib.

That's why you know, that's the origin of the word Morava. River means profit. But they're not able to see the difference and there is a big difference. murabaha is a sale and people are allowed to sell with any terms they want with any conditions they want, as long as they are Sharia. These conditions are Sharia compliant.

And this is a sale that is permissible as long as the conditions are good, and they are Sharia compliant. And moreover, there is nothing wrong with Morava if it is done in the right way.

But still, there are some Muslims who are confused about it. This is the answer. The answer is in Surah Al Baqarah. Well, hello Hola. Hola, baya. waha Rama Riva, Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury. So when you give a loan to someone alone in Islam has to be a curve Hasson

has to be a goodly loan. You cannot charge any profit on the loan. You don't make money on money in Islam.

But, but when you are trading, you're doing business you buying and selling, then you have the freedom to buy and sell in any way you want. As long as there is no river, there is no harm or uncertainty and there is no injustice room. These are the main three issues that are found within the financial any financial system. Nowadays, whether we're talking about conventional finance, or talking about Islamic finance, we have to avoid these three main issues. Riba, the horror uncertainty, and volume, volume injustice, because Islam wants us to do to do business with full transparency, and full justice. This is the objective. These are the objectives of Sharia, when it

comes to, to business.

So I'm allowed to say, oh, I can sell you this for 10,000 for 2000, for example, cash, but if you if you want to pay it within one year or two years, or sell it for 3000, this is halal. As long as you're dealing with a seller, there is no third party, there is a big issue within you know, you with dealers when you go and buy a car. This is a big issue. Nowadays, there are many Muslims, they go to the dealers, and they tell them, Okay, we're not allowed to deal with riba. And he tells them, okay, we'll just add the interest

to the cost.

And you pay it up front. And you think the Taliban and they're happy this Muslim brothers are happy, we don't know that there is a third party, or they don't know, sometimes we know sometimes Alajuela third party, which is usually the bank financing the deal.

And the bank is taking this interest. So whether you pay it on a monthly basis, or you paid upfront is the same, you pay in interest. So you need to you need to know how things work. Yeah. What if this increase is made by the seller himself, which is not the case with car dealers, we're not talking about now. Housing, talking about car dealers, right car dealership, if the seller himself, it doesn't happen, but if the seller happened, himself increases the price. And he gives you financing, then this Khaled,

Malaysian baby taxi, this is halal. But if there is a third party financing the deal paying on your behalf, these third party will take the interest will they paid upfront or pay it on a monthly basis? It doesn't make a difference. So we need to understand education here is very important. They are one and by the way.

The purpose of this program is educational. Danny, I want you guys I want you to understand how whatever works.

I'm not going to discuss people. I'm not going to discuss companies and we're not going to give you names of companies. But we're going to talk about the red flags and warnings and issues that are found in the market.

And I want you to pay attention to these issues. So when you deal with any company

you know what you

doing.

So this is very important one, because then the most of the brothers and sisters who come to the masjid, they asked this question, is this company halal, this agreement halal? And the what a yes or no answer. And I don't like this. were educated people we went to university, we have degrees, at least to try to understand the basic some basics of our Islamic in finance, we have our own system, we have our own financial system. Like we learn how to make wudu, and how to, and how to pray and how to fast, and how to give zakat, we need to spend some time learning about this field, because we need it is part of our life. We need to buy cars, we need to buy homes, we need to do business, it's

part of the life of any human being.

And we have another obligation, we need to do business in a halal way as Muslims, we need to do business in Halal way.

Now we need to talk about fundamental rules of sale.

Not all of them are here. But the most important, basic rules of sale are here, the subject of sale must exist at the time of sale. There are some exceptions for this, it's called Selim and this is not it's not our subject, we don't have time to talk about them today. But the basic rule is

that the subject of sale must exist at the time of sale. For example, Mohammed sells the fruit of his garden to our ally before they appear, this is not valid, or before they grow before they become like red or yellow. If they become yellow, he's allowed to, to sell, they don't have to be completely ripe. He can he can sell, but they were still green, the fruits are still green, he's not allowed to sell. Okay, so we have our own rules here when, when it comes to business, the subject of sale must be in the ownership of the seller, at the time of sale. And this is a big issue, this is a red flag, need to pay attention to it. This is a warning here. If you're doing whatever, and the FBI

doesn't own the house, or doesn't own the car. They're not allowed to sell it to you. They're not allowed to make a sale agreement with you. The sale agreement is not valid, and we have proofs I'll share with you today.

So this is a red flag in the market.

Number three, the subject of sale must be in the physical or constructive possession of the seller, when he sells it to the customer. This is another red flag.

But this is more important. Number two is more important this one because usually in the housing market, this is not an issue.

The house exists, and you have access to it when you buy it. Whether you buy it in a halal way or in in an agreement that is not valid. You get access usually to get access to your house. Anyway, it's not a big issue. But in Islamic Sharia, the seller has to have the physical or constructive possession, what is the difference? Physical, he has it in his hand. Full Control, right? Constructive, he has control.

And it was the the risk has been transferred to him to the to the seller. Right. For example, I'll give you an example someone a businessman who ordered some merchandise from China right now, if the Chinese company pays for the the shipping company pay the shipping company and tell them okay, you need to take this merchandise to Canada to so and so it is still still under their liability.

So there was no transfer of risk. Because the Chinese company here is in charge of transporting this commodities to Canada to their Canadian customer. Here the Canadian customer is not responsible. If there is some damage that happens. He's not responsible for this damage. And he's not allowed to sell

this bhiva this commodity he's not allowed to sell it. But if he chooses his own shipping company, and he pays them and they are the one who take them now they will be acting as his agent. They go to China or they have an office in China. So they act as his agent, he pays them the fees and now they are the one who will bring this commodities or this products to him merchandise to him. It came actually the fact that his this shipping company, which is acting as an agent on behalf of the

Canadian customer or I would say method and businessman.

The fact that this company shipping company

received these products or these commodities, when he's allowed to sell because they are under his what liability. If something happens to them, he is responsible. And he is allowed in this case to, to, you know to sell constructive, for example, you make a transaction with the bank, instead of giving you buying American, with Canadian, instead of giving you the American in your hand, they transfer American money into your

into your account,

you didn't receive the money in your hand. So this is not physical possession. Right. It's called constructive possession. Because it's your account, and you have access, you're supposed to have access to your account. If the money is immediately has been immediately transferred to your account, and you have immediate access to it, then you're fine. It is in your in your possession, even if

it is not in your in your hand. Now, so this is the difference between physical and constructive Allahu taala.

The sale must be instant and absolutely no sale that is attributed to a future date.

What will conclude the sale on January 1 2023.

And then both of you believe that the sale is included, but it will take effect on January 2023. This is not permissible. What is permissible is to promise on January 2023, I will buy this car from you. They said okay, that's fine, I can wait for you. You can promise you can agree on the price if you want. As long as you understand that this is a promise and nothing is binding. There is no binding the promise between both of you. If it is binding from both sides, then it's equivalent to a sale and from Sharia. From an Islamic perspective.

The price has to be well defined if the price is uncertain, the sale is not is not valid. And yeah, this is a biggie another big issue another red flag.

Because here in murabaha, if we say the price has to be fixed, then refinancing is not permissible.

refinancing is not permissible.

By the way, as I said, I'm not going to mention companies. But I saw the website of a company that says we deal with murabaha. And we're trying to be fully transparent, but allowing refinancing every five years. So I don't understand I not understand this. But this is something that you need to pay attention to the price has to be fixed, they cannot change the price. There is no refinancing after five years or 10 years.

And it is a risk for them will mention, you know, some types of risks for for them for the companies and for the clients to

now this is what are behind modern times is usually combined, as I said with a sale with a deferred payment plan. It's called beta version. And that's why people like it because they don't have money. They don't have cash to pay for the for the house, right? Don't have cash. So that's why they need this. This facility here. And it is valid with the following conditions due date of payments are fixed. And this is found with most companies. I mean, it's easy for them, there is no they don't have an issue with that. They give you a plan from day one. They give you a payment plan, how much you pay as a deposit. And then they give you a payment plan for like 15 years, 20 years, 10 years.

This is not an issue.

The different price may be more than the cash price. And I explained that this is Hello.

This is halal and there is nothing wrong with it. minority small number of scholars who said no this is not permissible. But the overwhelming majority, overwhelming majority of Muslim scholars believe that this may succeed better more agile Malizia the famine in a with an increase in the price it is is permissible. So we have no issue with that. And we're following the majority of Muslim scholars who believe it's valid Yes. Is that predetermined? Predetermined and it has to be agreed upon. It has to be agreed upon. Now

of course it has to be registered well registered in the in the contract

from day one. Yes. If it is not fixed or it is vague any they don't agree on it. The contract is not valid.

To account that present value of money as we move forward is that it is it is so Islam allows for time value of money in two cases, bear and bear Selim two cases, right.

Price what they added

stands for not come in that category. Because sometimes the prices are so high that you are even that one you cannot afford it so, that adding of profit itself doesn't make it violate the condition of it's not Yeah, and it's not affordable. Yeah, be something that you believe it's an act of it's an act of volume, injustice Islamically is not Islamically is not

the only I'll tell you something there is a misconception within our Muslim communities. I don't know why. What is the source of this misconception that profit cannot exceed, cannot exceed 10%. I don't know what is the background of this misconception. There is no limit for profit. There is no limit for profit as long as

as long as you agree. You agree and you do business in a halal way you don't violate the rules of Sharia. You see what I'm saying here, but there is no limit for profit. As long as you're not cheating the person. You're not giving the wrong information. You're not dealing with Reba you're not dealing with uncertainty rather. In you you see what I'm saying here?

There is a Sahabi who bought yes

we'll talk about it today.

We'll talk about it today inshallah. So we'll go through this halacha is dedicated for Morava.

As a hobby or just going to give us an example. Yeah, so have you bought Rasul Allah says Adam gave him one dinar is it go and buy a sheep for me? He went, and Masha Allah de Shahabi was a good businessman. So he got two sheep instead of one for one dinner so each one was have a dinner Dinner was at that time was a golden dinner. You know the weight of one dinner is four point 25 grams of gold. Yeah, Mashallah. Their currency was very, was very expensive.

So, so he bought two sheep. And by the way, he and it's very close the price of gold nowadays, four point 25 is very close to the price of sheep nowadays in Canada. And if you compare huntleigh still almost the same. Anyway, that's a different story. But he bought two sheep, right. And then when he was going back, taking the two ships also last I sell, he met another person.

And he said, Can you buy it? Can you sell one of them? To me? The other person who told him yes, okay, I'll sell one to you. Because Allah says no, ask him to buy one.

And he volunteered and he bought two. Right? So he said he felt that he's he. He has the freedom to sell the second one. So he sold the second one for one dinner.

So how much it is profit here?

100%. Yeah. So he went to Rasulullah Salem and Salah Salem was amazed. He said, How did you do it? So he got he said here your dinner and he's a sheep.

And he said, How did you do it? And he explained to him what happened? And also Allah says Allah made dua for him, that Allah Subhana Allah will bless his business transactions. He moved after the death of Rasulillah Salam to the city of Kufa in Iraq. He said they used to go to the marketplace in the morning

before though he said before going back to my family I would make sometimes in one transaction 40,000 I don't know 40,000 hours that's that's a fortune for all 40,000 Dear him because their home was made of silver that's a different story. But he said 40,000 So yeah, masha Allah this man became wealthy.

So anyway, our due date of payments are fixed the deferred price may be more than the cash price after the sale is concluded the price cannot be decreased in case of earlier payment. Okay, this is a minor issue here. Why? Because there are so whenever they said no, it's okay if we decrease the price in case of earlier payment. But most of the companies these days they don't allow for this.

But if they don't allow that's okay. Still is a minor issue is not a big issue. Why? Because the majority of Muslim scholars believe that it cannot decreased in case of earlier payment based on agreement.

We cannot make an agreement from day one that hey, if you pay me earlier, I will give you a discount

So majority of Muslim scholars believe that this is not permissible.

Some of them they said it is permissible, I'm inclined, inclined towards this opinion. But either way, it's not. It's not a big issue allow to Allah, but most of the companies don't allow for this. And here, and this is a big problem here.

It cannot be increasing case of a default.

It cannot be increasing. Why? Because it's river.

So now how Muslim companies are doing business and how Islamic banks will do business how, how are Muslim customers pressurized, we need to pressure you and put some pressure on them

to pay on time. Otherwise, we cannot do business like the other people.

So there are different solutions, some some banks, Islamic banks and financial institutions. They said, If you delay, if you default on your payment, we'll charge you like a cup fee $50 $100, just to cover the expenses.

This is one idea. The other idea that is more acceptable nowadays,

Muslim scholars have encouraged Islamic banks and

housing companies and Islamic financial institutions to create a charitable department.

So if someone defaults on his payment, they charge him a penalty. And he take this penalty, and they put it in this charitable department so that the institution itself does not benefit from this increase. It goes to charity, and it's given to the poor and the needy.

So this is not a major issue. And if you have this in the agreement, I don't think this should stop you from signing the agreement.

You see what I'm saying? But as a basic principle, it's called fulfilled short Riba, we Yanni it is riba we stipulation. But what is the difference between this stipulation and between paying river the actual payment of river like Madonna take a loan through a credit card money,

they charge you interest right away, you're paying interest. But if you use the credit card to to buy some food, right, they don't charge you interest right away. They give you

a grace period right? One month will lead to pay so if you pay on time didn't pay interest. I'm not saying it's halal. And you can use your credit card all the time to buy milk and and bread. I'm not saying that if you have a credit card, use it only when there is a pressing need right? This is the ruling wala Jota Anna, so you don't have you don't any stay away try to protect yourself from riba as much as you can.

Right? But the difference is between this condition or this stipulation and between paying riba there is a big difference. When you pay riba that's that's a sin right? But when you have a condition, if you avoid this condition, you will avoid this problem. At the end you will not pay riba

so the older man here in North America, they said this late fee penalties, you know, are found in many contracts,

many contracts that we that we sign, so he said no, if they are there in the contract,

you can you are allowed as a Muslim to sign this contract, and you try your best to avoid river not to default.

Because when you sign this contract that has this condition, you're not paying river,

a just a term there that is not Sharia compliant, but you're not paying really if you try to try your best not to default.

You try your best to pay on time. Are you able to see the difference?

You're not able to see the difference. Now, it's a painful situation. In what yeah, when you default, when you don't pay on time. Credit card usage, whether you're talking about a cashless society or whatever, the bottom line is, most people don't carry a lot of cash around. Yep.

We have debit tissue, we have debits and the visa debits and

and we have prepaid credit cards nowadays. I'm not saying any they're perfect, but we have these prepaid credit cards and there are solutions, you know, not not it's not an argument. Basically. This is not our subject today. We need to we need to use time wisely. What is the time

905 We still have some time

So the fees if you default, on a credit sale, and you end up paying the fees, it is a form of interest.

What I'm saying is if you sign this contract, you need it. Like I say, utilities,

using a phone buying a phone from a company, you have a contract with these companies. This condition is always there.

You see what I'm saying? One time?

No, no, if you default, you'll pay it, whether it's not one time fee.

Like if you default in the month of June, you pay some fees. If you default in the month, on the month of September, you will pay some fees. It's not one time, wherever you default.

You miss your obligation, then you pay some fees. That's a form of Riba. But what I'm saying is signing a contract here and you try your best not to default you try your best to pay on time. They shouldn't be a big problem when you need that contract.

I'll explain to you something you don't know the difference between necessity Dora and hazard need.

So the old Mr. Saying in North America, if you need this contract, you need to sign it because you're not paying interest. But you are signing a contract that includes a stipulation that is not fully Sharia compliant, but you can do nothing about it because this is how business works in this country.

But

paying Riba is a major sin and it is halal only a times of doura necessity and you know, the necessity I'll give you an example eating cansia When do you eat one zero pork?

Yeah, when do you drink alcohol?

At the time of the rora you don't have another alternative Halal alternative

when it comes to housing when you don't have a shelter This is the rule

when you don't have a shelter you aren't in the street this is the rule but owning become becoming an owner of a house is not the Euro is has there is a need

Are you able to distinguish between the two

so there is a big difference these are levels of needs in Islam dharuhera need and luxuries no luxuries camera yet.

Which one

is not permissible?

Yeah, that's right. But but people yet either Obama who live in North America and the know that these conditions is stipulation is there this term is there in many contracts.

The utility contract

is not applicable.

But it is harder. They said they are not talking about the rule and he said if there is hazard

there is a difference between paying interest paying interest and between signing a contract that includes this stipulation that if you try to protect yourself from defaulting, you don't default you don't pay interest, there is a big difference between the two.

In the first case you will be really paying there is an actual payment of interest and it is Halon only at times of doura in the second case there is no actual payment of interest, but there is a possibility.

So here there is a payment to forever and here there is a possibility.

possibility it is it becomes hot yes but it becomes Halal at times of need. However, here the actual payment he has has a need and we need cars we need. We need to sign this contract you need an

Yeah, what are you saying there are different Muharram at different levels of Muhammad. Paying its interest in itself is a measure of sin.

Sign signing a contract that includes a term that you're not happy with. But you try your best inshallah to protect yourself and not to fall into this trap. This becomes Halal at a time of hazard and it is not a major sin is not like paying Riba. Are you able to see the difference? Okay, is it clear for everyone?

Yes.

housing,

housing afford

to own a house is a need isn't worth $1 Whatever it is, it is $1 or SSAT to have a shelter. Are you able to distinguish between having a shelter and owning a house?

What I'm saying Islamic companies came up with a solution. What is the solution? Charity?

It makes you good, feel good, at least Yeah. And he they're not taking themselves, they're not talking something harder. If they are, if they are sincere, and they are not using this money themselves, they are not adding it to their account, they're putting it in a charitable account, then should this should give you some peace of mind as a Muslim. What I'm trying to say that if you find this in a contract, this is not a major issue.

Is that clear one.

So now to secure his payments, the seller is allowed to ask for a mortgage or a lien as a security after the ownership of the property is transferred to the buyer. Mortgage in itself is not haram in itself is not haram in Islam, we have the concept of mortgage in Islam and

what is haram with conventional mortgages,

interest.

So interest is Hana mortgage itself is not haram. So there is halal mortgage

lien to place a lien as a security is permissible, completely permissible

after the property is checked, or the ownership of the property is transferred to the buyer.

Now, it is not permissible to deprive the buyer, the ownership of the property or the commodity, the brother, you were asking about them. This is a big issue here in Alberta these days, as I said, I'm not going to mention names of companies. But this is a big issue.

The final stage, which is transfer of ownership does not exist. It is delayed until stipulated in contracts. We'll talk about it I'll give you actually I will mention some decisions made by major Islamic faith councils that this is not permissible.

It is not permissible for them to keep the ownership of the property until the client fully pays the whole price. And this might happen might take place within a period of 15 years, or 20 years.

So just to clarify, yes. transferred, but there's still a mortgage on it. No, there is no transfer of ownership.

So we'll come to that in sha Allah. But let's let's talk about this is what is Jonnie? I'm talking about the Islamic requirement? We'll come to the companies, as I said, without mentioning names, but we'll come to the industry what is happening. Now, I was focused on the process, in terms of a Buy Sell deal to based on deferred payments, because that's what so Islamically all rules agree that it is not permissible to deprive the buyer, because it is a basic effect of any sale contract.

This is one of the most important effects or consequences of result of any contract. Verify to make sure I understand what you're saying. Yep. So I buy a house from you. Yep. And we agree to a price and Yep.

The moment we conclude the sale, I own the house, and you own the price.

This is an automatic result of any contract.

How do you own house we'll talk about it here how we add it, there is a sale agreement of sale that is signed between two lawyers, the lawyers who will be representing two lawyers representing the seller and the buyer. And then after that you need to register the land title.

without registering the land title, you are not an owner in Canada. We'll talk about that's a bigger issue here nowadays. But is it also an issue overseas? Overseas, in some cultures is a different story. We'll we'll come to that. Actually, that's the source of confusion. source of confusion is that that issue? Beloved, I'm talking about Alberta, not Ontario, there are some other companies in Ontario they are offering Morava. I'm not sure if they have this problem. But he is talking about the new companies that were established recently in Edmonton. There are three or four of them. This is a big issue.

But we'll come to that inshallah.

And I'll tell you why they don't transfer they don't allow the transfer of the land title.

So murabaha financing. We said that the cost of the soul commodities

Knowing the profit or markup is well defined, all expenses incurred by the seller in acquiring the commodity, like legal fees will, he's allowed to include them in the cost price. But he's not allowed to include methanol, for example, the rental fees for his office on that month, for example, has nothing to do with with the intended transaction. We're talking about one specific transaction selling the house to Mohammed, right. Any cost that is related to this transaction, the seller is allowed to include it in the final cost.

So he would buy the house 350 methanol forum from Mr. X, right. But it cost him some extra, he had to pay some extra fees, here and there. And the final cost was 360. He's allowed Islamically to add this 10,000. And to tell the customer that the final cost was 360. And my profit will be 140. And therefore, the final price will be 500. Half a million. Yes.

Sure.

No, no, no, it was all Amelie in the salaries.

The rental fees of his office are not there, he's not allowed to include them. He's allowed to include any extra,

you know, cost any extra money that he paid for the sake of executing this specific transaction between him FYI, financial institution, and the buyer or the home buyer, Mohammed or ally, or Abdulkadir or whomever is buying the house.

But he's not allowed to add other

extra fees that are usually taking Yanis are paid by his company on a regular basis to maintain his business. You see the difference? Okay.

Cost of Goods Sold?

Is the cost?

Yeah, that's right. Has to be known, otherwise, it cannot call it Morava. You see what I'm saying?

Yes, question about the interests of profit margin.

Sometimes it's very confusing when you see them using

formulas such as percentages for

and it's close to the interest rate in the in the markets. It's not a problem. It's not an issue. It's not an issue.

Yeah, if they are following mutton,

usually it is more murabaha it's more that they have to make money. So it's, it's not the same, it's more expensive.

And if the interest rate in the market is 2% 3%, their profit will be around five 6%. Because they need to make money.

Yeah, they have to make money. I mean, this is how they make money. And it is expensive for Muslim customers. It is expensive.

But we take this into consideration their money, you know, it becomes a personal decision. Do you want to pay this extra money?

With some issues that are there? You know what I mean, if this is not the only problem, this is not the only issue.

But we'll talk about some other issues. Because there is there are different types of risk. There are financial risks, and this is a financial risk.

And there actually are risks. And all most of the Muslims who don't want to buy a house through conventional mortgage are running away from the Sharia risk. They want to do it in a halal way.

They will they don't want to take this risk and face Allah subhanaw taala with the burden of rebound the Day of Judgment. That is their intention. You see what I'm saying here? So they're running away from haram

but what are the other alternatives? Are the pure as the perfect Are they good?

Now are these cheap or expensive? That's a different story. If they are purely Khaled, and expensive then it becomes a personal

personal decision. I have no say I mean it's your

as an email might have no say regarding this. It's your personal decision. If you want to pay some extra money to get something halal. That's your decision.

You see what I'm saying here?

For example

and desperate thing, and then title is transferred to me as well. Can I sell that

although

You can Islamically you can, but but when in the market may be cared if the if that the ownership is transferred, usually the FBI will place a lead on the other property, we need to secure their contribution. So they will place a lien, they will not allow you to sell it without their permission. So yeah, at the end, you have to make an arrangement with them. But you can sell it, and Islamically if there is a profit, it's yours, because you become the owner after the sale is concluded. Again, this is not a loan, it's a sale and you are supposed to be the owner of the house after you conclude the sale.

So if you make a profit if the prices go up, then it's your money. You can put it in your pocket.

sometimes and sometimes it takes

some periods. Interest are really low, like 2% or one person. Yeah, yeah.

No still Hara.

1% is haram 0.5% is haram. 2% is haram thief as it is haram.

It has to be zero interest. It has to be zero. Okay.

I think we talked about all these issues. I'm just being repetitive here.

Yeah, we talked about these issues, stages of Morava house, it's just to have a better understanding. So we'll talk about stages murabaha. And then we'll talk about the red flags. And then we talked about some issues that are that we are facing Danny in this in this market. Because it applies for more ABA approval to the FBI, this application includes a promise to buy from the FBI a promise.

The application is approved by the FBI that approval includes a promise to sell here, there is a red flag. Why? Because the promise from both parties cannot be binding. If it is a binding commitment, then it is equivalent to a legal sale in the Islamic Sharia.

But if it is binding from one side, that's okay, that's fine. And then the other side has the right to cancel the deal. Or not to do it not to proceed further with the transaction. That's okay. That's fine. Yes.

It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, this is the decision of Majima fickle Islamic, the Muslim Council if method and one party method, let's say the FBI started the process of buying the house and they spent some money and then the client had no obligation it's just a promise it was a me promise and then he changed his mind. So what will happen is they have the right to charge him the fees or the cost of their whatever, whatever their they spent some couple of 1000s method and to

be okay. To make it a condition is okay. To make it to to stipulate this condition. It's okay that if we you don't proceed with with a transaction, and we have some charges, we will charge you these fees. This is permissible as I said, it's not something agreed upon. But again is not is a minor issue is not a major issue is not a red flag.

But the problem is if it is binding binding from both sides, then it's haram because he cannot sell it to him he doesn't own it. The financial institution here at this stage doesn't own the property. You cannot sell something you don't own.

The client chooses the house which they want to buy from the FBI thereby secures the funds and purchases the house the ownership of the house is under the FBI. Here there is a minor issue very tricky.

Here

most like most of the Islamic

I would say fear councils allow the seller to buy or to sell the property to the homebuyer or to the buyer. If if if the commodity is something different within five minutes 10 minutes after the get the ownership after the buyer it and it comes into enter enter their risk and their liability and their ownership.

We can sell it right away but if it is we're talking about homes here in Canada.

The FBI might sign a contract with the lawyer it's a sales agreement right it's an agreement of sale right

in in but to be

Come a full owner, he in Canada, you have to register the title.

But we are not interested in that.

Because they are, they are allowed Islamically to sell it right away to the customer within a couple of hours within one day. And to register the title before COVID People need it, or they used to need like two weeks, three weeks to register the title. Now after COVID, you need two months or three months unless

unless you change Allahu Allah. But this is the the feedback that I received recently.

So two months and three months, usually these companies will not wait for three months. And there is no point for them to what I'm saying it's a minor issue because most people, some people might think that this is this

goes against the the you know the principle of

the Islamic principle that says that the owner or the seller has to own the property before they sell it.

You see what I'm saying here, we have a problem at the end.

When these companies are not transferring the title for what allowing the customer to get the title for the period of 15 years, or 20 years.

The conclusion of this research that this is not permissible in Canada is not permissible, because there is no ownership.

But here we are allowing the FII to sell it within one hour, two hours resell it to the customer, even before they receive the title. What's the difference? The difference is there is no restriction from the bank. If they buy it from the bank, the bank doesn't put any restriction, they can resist the results, the process of registering the title, right, the bank will place a lien, the bank doesn't have intention. For example, if they buy it from the bank to keep the ownership of the house.

There is no ownership he doesn't the bank doesn't own the house. The house was owned by Mr. X or Mr. While

the bank is financing the deal.

But the bank is interested into securing

the fund the financing the amount of money that he's paying here.

So anyway, there are no restrictions for the FBI. No one is telling them no, there is no stipulation when it comes to Muslim Brian brothers, Muslim homebuyers in the contracts that we have recently, there is a restriction

that you cannot there will be no transfer of title until the price is fully paid. And this will take place as I said within 15 years or or 20 years.

So here, even in Islam, we have heard Fash excessive horror. And we have a low level of horror uncertainty.

He within one month, two months, three months is a low level of uncertainty. 15 years 20 years is a huge risk.

And it's an excessive level of a lot of uncertainty. We'll talk about it here. But I just want you I want I want to to explain this. So at the end, you don't tell me how come you allow the FBI to sell it here without registering the

having the land title. And we don't allow it in the second case at the end because there is an excessive level of other 15 years 20 years, anything could happen within 15 years or 20 a huge financial risk and there is a Sharia risk. If the if the buyer is not an owner, the contract is not valid from an Islamic perspective. Yes, brother. Someone raised his hand

number four, how important it is to see how the connection is during the

security.

Okay, that's another minor issue here that just a color here. There are people some people some Muslims if the if the FBI Matheran is buying the house, buys the house from the bank, and then they resell it to them. They believe that this is not halal. It is halal. As long as you don't tell them go and buy the house from the bank for me.

If you tell them go to the bank, and get a mortgage and then resell the house to me, then this is haram.

But if you apply to them, and this is what happened to a Muslim brother in Calgary, he applied his application was approved. Just recently it was in the last six months, seven months. His his application was approved. On the time on the day of closing the deal. He found the name

for bank on the title and mortgage church. He didn't know about it.

So I went that day. He found out that the FBI but

The house from the bank, this Muslim brother

is free from any responsibility. It didn't know and he didn't tell them.

So in this case is Helen. But the Herma the problem is in the last stage, which is transfer of ownership. So this is a minor issue. Some people don't feel good about it some Muslims, if they know that the FBI is buying the property from a bank,

as long as they don't do it with your approval, you're not you're proving you're not telling them go and do it. Then it's their business. What is the proof? They said the rule number they said, Rasul Allah says, Allah needs to make business with the hood in the city of Medina. And they were heavily involved in Riba. And he used to accept their invitation, there was in the Yahoodi lady who invited him. Some other Jewish people who invited him he used to accept their invitation, and eat their food. And he used to buy and sell, do business with them.

So the Islamic sharia is saying, you buying and selling with someone you have nothing to do with his own transactions are you trying to is that clearly,

you have nothing to do with their transaction, you should care about your transaction with them.

Identify the purpose of Islamic financing, if you keep allowing financial institutions.

Usually, usually, Islamic companies are not supposed to do that. And I suppose I'm not saying they are not.

Here, you see what I'm saying we are not supposed to go and secure the funds from conventional banks.

And actually, this will not solve our problems. If they do it this way. It will not solve it will be many remedies said this should be a temporary solution.

But until now it's used and is the only option that we have that the problem is not that if it was a purely Halal option, then go ahead and do it.

Have nothing to do with the industry or, you know,

the macro management of the economy care about yourself as an individual.

No, you need a house for your family. As long as it's halal, the transaction is halal, the contract is valid.

You know what I mean? The problem is, you as a Muslim, you come to this market, you pay some extra money, because you're running away from the bank. But you end up having some issues with the contract itself. You see what I'm saying here?

And this is what I want to explain to you. And Inshallah, if we can put some pressure on these companies, we can

increase the awareness about this, about this business. Maybe Maybe these companies will try and shallowford You know, they will try, they will try to do to do something good for the community.

I have to assume you know, I'll tell you something, there are some brothers who tell me this company got this certification from these scholars from Egypt, scholars from South Africa, scholars from Malaysia.

It can say anything, some of them I don't know them

I don't know their names, I don't know them I don't know their their knowledge. So I cannot discuss people and discuss you know, you know, what other people have I have here there is a clear policy in our Sharia

and there is a clear Masha Allah way how to do it in a halal way.

We look at what is available in the market, if it is compliant, fully compliant with the Sharia, we go ahead and do it. If there are issues that we need to talk about them and and be aware of them. And inshallah hopefully they will become they will come a group of people who will do it in a in the right way.

Be even later on.

So let's let me let me move forward and shall London. By the end, maybe we'll leave the questions till the end. I think this is a better decision now. If we if you want me to finish on time.

Five both have I in the client make an agreement of sale which include the monthly payment plan and the payment of deposit. Okay, why this there is a red flag here.

Okay, yes, because the property I we talked about it before the price of the property is there is no financing refinancing.

So it's fixed and the payment plan is clear. And you know how much you're paying,

possession and ownership of whom are transferred to the client. Usually the possession Yes. Or ownership, not in many companies, not all of them. As I said, when I say ownership is not transferred usually I'm talking about companies here in Alberta.

Right? I'm not sure about the other companies in Ontario.

So what is the out

generative, how do how do they try to secure to give some security to the client? He came up with an idea. It's called it's occurred.

caveat.

So it is registered as buyers or purchases, interest buyers interest caveat on the title. This is how it is registered. Buyers interest cover yet doesn't say anything else. So I talked to some lawyers, it will be caveats are different.

It depends on what is written. I looked at to contract.

This is what is written buyers interest caveat. I talked to lawyers, I talked to real estate agents, they told me caveat is just the legal notice. And you can check it yourself on Google. It's a legal notice.

It's illegal notice if there is a judgment, if there is a case, then the judge will take a notice that you have you have interest. It's not like a lien is not like a lien. It doesn't have the power of a lien.

So this Muslim brother who bought the house, he found the mortgage charge of a bank on the title. And the bank has a lien has a mortgage charge. The brother, the Muslim brother who bought the house, he has this buyers interest caveat.

There is a big difference between the two. And I talked to one of the owners of these companies, as I said, I'm not going to mention names, I have to protect there. It's there, it's not ethically, it's not ethical to talk to them have a private conversation with them. And then they share it with other people. But we talk about ideas. I had a conversation with one of the owners of these companies. And he asked him this question, in case you go into bankruptcy.

What will happen to the Muslim customer, he has a curve, a caveat, right? This Muslim customer has a caveat, which is just the legal notice. And the bank has a lien a mortgage church.

And it's obvious that the bank will have the upper hand. This is what many lawyers have confirmed to me that if this happens, bankruptcy is a different story anyway, but if this happens, the bank has to sustain, certify satisfy.

It's, uh you know, needs he the bank paid money.

The bank has to get his money back, it's money back.

And Muslim customer has no right.

This has coffee, it has no power to change to challenge the lien, or the mortgage church. And he told me, I cannot answer this question. My lawyers have to need to answer this question.

And he's the founder of the company.

So

now, I underlined this, I underline this, because it says to secure the rights of the client. Are they secure? I don't think so.

They're not.

No, it's not they're not secure.

Now, some people they said caveat, money is very amount is very protected. If there is nothing against it. I'll give you some idea about Lean lean here. I have some it's very

just give me a second here.

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the power of the lien in this in this society.

Right.

It says a lien is a claim on legal rights against assets that are typically used as collateral to satisfy a debt. A creditor. Here, the bank, or a legal judgment could establish a lien a lien serves to guarantee an underlying obligation such as the payment, the repayment of the loan, if the underlying obligation is not satisfied, the creditor may be able to seize the asset. Look at the power of the lien. This is the asset.

And what is it that is the subject of the lien? There are many types of liens that are used to secure assets. And he said the lien is a claim illegal, right? It's illegal, right? You cannot and you know what one of the lawyers told me this caveat it can be easily removed from the title.

This is the feedback one of the lawyer, one of the lawyers, he's not a Muslim lawyer, but he knows about this, this issues anyway.

Therefore, I will please place a lien on the property to secure their rights. This is halal. This is Hala if we do it in the right way. After the ownership is transferred to the to the customer. The FBI has the right to place a lien and this is what the conventional banks are

Doing

the title is transferred to the client the homebuyer and the banks will place a lien

now there is a text after the murabaha payments this if it is done in the right way.

That's why we have this statement here.

After the murabaha payments are completed, the mortgage charge is removed. This is the right process and the client is in possession of a clear title Alfa Millbrook we wish that will happen one day inshallah

Yeah, so everything in the block is is halal. Everything you read,

you have to be careful about

lien run, run your mortgage is run too.

So now pay attention to this. This is a conclusion of this presentation. The red flags subject of sale must be in the ownership of the seller at the time of sale. Okay, this is the proof. We have proof for everything. Hakim resemble the Allah who asked the Prophet sallallahu Sallam a man comes to me and wants to sell wants me to sell him something which is not in my possession. So also Allah Azza sallam said, do not sell what is not with you. He did not talk about the transaction itself like going and buying something and resell it to someone else. He didn't tell him anything about it, which is heroin, which means it's heroin. He approved it. If it was haram he would say something

against it right? But he told him to not sell what is not in you with you. Which means if you buy it when I resell it back to him, that's okay. That's heroin, but do not sell it before you own it. Before it is with you. See what I'm saying?

And this is a so he authentic hadith famous Hadith Yes.

That's a different story. It could be done through Salem, because Salem is an exception, but Salem has his own condition, but said different story.

Let's focus on murabaha tonight.

second draft for Red flag number two subject of sale must be in the physical constructive possession of the seller before it is sold to the client. So as long as I sell them has forbidden profit arising from something which is not in one charge, or liability and hadith is Hasson called El Harajuku enamel harass with doorman

you cannot profit from something that is not under your liability.

And the real risk right you have to have liability you have to have some risk

to profit from you know a product or a commodity or

and there are some other proofs for this, the price of murabba has to be fixed until the end of the payment plan.

Why because Rasulullah Cicilline forbade any transaction which involves uncertainty, if the price is not fixed, there is uncertainty if it is fixed for three years or five years, and then

you know, the terms are negotiated after five years, or the rate is increased after five years, then there is uncertainty you don't know how much people were paying 2%. Just recently, one month ago right now, interest rate

has been increased to 5%, maybe five something right? It's a huge actually thinks are getting are going to get ugly. In the real estate market.

I read some some articles that are very difficult

about what will happen within the next two years, three years, we'll lower them, you know, people are predicting, but they said home owners might be buying some paying some extra 30% or 40%. I don't understand the increase here. But these are the predictions of some people who are involved in this industry.

It is not permissible to prevent the homebuyer from his right of ownership.

Why because this is the most important effect of any sale contract. The owner, the seller will own the price and the buyer will own the property. It's a simple basic consequence a result of any contract.

So the rule may be said if there is any condition that goes against the simple effect, then the majority of Muslim scholars they said the sale is not valid.

Now why some rules approved this kind of agreement. The same it was approved by IoT.

What is IoT, accounting and auditing organization for Islamic financial institutions established established in 1991

based in Bahrain, known for its Sharia standard, this is their website, Sharia. So, if you go to this link, you will find the standards

maybe around 1200 pages in both languages.

Both languages Arabic and English, right? And murabaha is number eight murabaha is number eight.

I will see number eight murabaha page 195 I'm sharing this why? Because we have a problem in the in this industry. What is the problem?

Even some mache hard contributing into that may Allah Subhana Allah forgive us and forgive them.

We say they say all the time, okay, it was approved by UV.

So we're cheating I don't feel like like a Quran. Now. The standard of I feel like Quran. But they're their group of Muslims callers. We respect them, and we love them. And we assumed that they were doing things for the sake of Allah subhanaw taala to help the community and help Islamic financial institutions, right? We have no right to assume otherwise.

But they are Mooster. He don't they are Bashar and we come up with

HDR that with some standards, some articles, some stipulations. This is what created problems in Alberta here, this article four or five.

But to be fair with the scholars IoT Scholars, this is what they said.

It is not permissible to stipulate that the ownership of the item will not be transferred to the customer until the full payment of the selling price. So they relieve themselves from any responsibility. cannot blame them.

But the brothers and sisters are here who are Mithuna supporting this business. Without the transfer of ownership, they are saying we're using this clause here.

However, it is permissible to postpone the registration of the asset in the customer's name as a guarantee for the full payment of the selling price.

They said we're using this clause. So therefore, this

15 years Yes. 1015 20 years. Yeah.

Which is excessive level of horror. Because as I said, One brother, one lawyer told me if bankruptcy happens, that's a different level. But then if bankruptcy happens, and these companies might say, actually this new companies new established company might face bankruptcy, why? Because the interest rate is going up. So the cost will go up.

I don't know if they can maintain business. And I don't know what will happen if the if the central bank will increase the interest in the future allow and what will happen to the market, right? If they go into bankruptcy, there is a simple formula if their assets are worth method and 10 million,

and their liabilities are worth 12 million. What will happen to the poor guy, the home buyer, the Muslim hole buyer, he doesn't own the house. He doesn't own the house. The ownership of the house belongs to the FBI. And the FBI goes into bankruptcy. As I said, if their assets are

10 million, let's say liabilities 12 million, what will happen to the house, he's got out bye bye.

Or he has to negotiate another deal with a bank.

Maybe.

So here they're saying no. And they're saying also that their customer,

the institution may receive authority from the customer to sell the asset in case the customer delays payment of the selling price

Islamically. This is accepted in a regular mortgage agreement.

It is accepted but the problem the client here

within these agreements that we have in Alberta has no authority.

He has a caveat. He doesn't own the house.

Now here it is not permissible to the reason I underline this, because I looked at to two agreements, two contracts with two companies, both of them, they says they don't have choice, we have to include it. The title will not be transferred

in the name of the client

until the price is fully paid.

The price of the property, as I said to be fully paid after 15 years was 20 years. You don't have a choice. We have to include it in the contract, even if we call it Islamic or Sharia compliant

Why, because if you don't include it what will happen?

The customer will go to the office and register the property, they cannot stop it. He got in a sale, agreement of sale from the from his lawyer.

And he is in possession of the property. Now he lives in it. Now, if he doesn't have the stipulation in the contract, what will happen? Nothing will prevent him from going to the office and register the title. Right? So they have to include it. But they're saying the rule Emma, who approved method on this agreement that saying it was approved by IOC, but I always say

it is not permissible to stipulate.

You see what I'm saying here?

But they are saying no, because we have this clause here. And I talked to a scholar, who is familiar with know, he lives in North America, and he's familiar with customary practices back home. He said this, this organization is in Bahrain. So most of the Muslims call us they're involved are from most of them, some of them are Pakistan, India, some other countries, but most of them are from the Middle East. So they're familiar with the culture there. And he told me in Egypt, if you go to you sign a contract, with the lawyer, sale, contract, you sign it, they said, you become you have all the rights of an owner, you have all your rights, and your rights will be respected. And you, you

you have full ownership of the property, even though people like to delay the registration with

the land title title's office, because of some other reasons that are related to their own culture there. And he said, You are a full owner, your ownership is recognized in basket. So he said this organization is in the Middle East. And they looked at this customary practices. That's why they said, however, it is permissible to postpone it's okay to postpone the registration. And they said at the end.

So after we received this, they said in which case when when the customer gives authority to the FBI, in which case this institution should do what issue a counter deed

to the customer to establish the latter's right.

Ownership to ownership. I did the research about counter deed here. I talked to some lawyers and some real estate agents. He told me we don't have counter deed in Canada. We don't have it is not recognized in Canada. It is not recognized in the United States of America. And it is not recognized in the UK.

Because if you Google counter deed, it is recognized in some other countries in some other cultures, and it's called The Secret. It's a secret legal document meant to destroy a public one.

It's like another agreement under the table. This is why I understood from the definition of counter deed. They said in Canada, no, you can it's illegal.

So our ruler, my brothers who agreed who approved this, they looked at this and they said maybe the caveats in Canada in Alberta will replace the counter. Do you see what I'm saying here?

I am just assuming Jani assuming because the VA says it was approved by IOC. I looked at the articles and the standard Morava Yes.

One minute.

Okay.

Okay, one minute here. I'll tell you, I'll give you the feedback of brother without mentioning his name. The brother who bought a house through this agreement, this is what he sent me. And he allowed me to share this with you without of course names.

Oh, can we delay the prayer little bit yet?

Cool. He told me the brother. These are the issues that he faced after he bought the house. He said these are the disadvantages. Number one, the inability, the inability to take advantage of first homebuyers using RSP to finance the house. He's not able to do that, because he's not a registered owner.

Number two, we missed all opportunities of rebates and carbon emission reductions. So government programs such as replacing windows

says we don't have the right to apply for that.

He said number three, applying for permits.

Applying for

permits and anything to do with the city. We cannot do that because he's not recognized as an owner. He said we have to go through the FBI.

So he mentioned this point.

I'll give you another payment plan, and you see yourself if it is expensive or not, real estate agent can help us with this.

One brother was given an offer by one of these companies, the initial price 450. The initial price, we will buy the house for 450. The profit 328

The Prophet found in 2008, the total price will be 778.

downpayment 130 1000.

The total amount financed six to 48. The term was 15 years. So he had the obligation to make a payment of 3600 every month.

Well, I'm just I'm just sharing this information with you. The problem is yeah, 100 the idea that they want to share with you and emphasize is that we're running away from haram right? Running away from her up and coming to this area of Halal industry, right.

I want something halal. I want to please Allah subhanaw taala. So I ended up paying more money. It's okay if it is halal, right.

But this is expensive. We have some real estate agents here. Do you think this is reasonable brothers? The numbers that I mentioned?

Bryce, it is difficult. Yeah, it is difficult. Yeah. The problem is, the problem is with this contract here, and I'm talking about Alberta again. Because as I said, with the issue of transferring ownership, I don't know about what's going on in Ontario, talking about Alberta.

It's an excessive level of honor to wait for 15 years or 20 years for the title to be transferred in your name.

It's a huge risk. So I come with this huge risk. The contract is not valid from an Islamic perspective. Because I'm told you are not an owner, and you cannot be an owner.

You're using the house and paying for the property tax for insurance, insuring the house. But if something wrong happens,

I'm out.

So this is this is our situation. Now, as I said, hopefully, something will happen in the future. Yes.

Yeah. And as I said, something I need to say, there are some rules in Alberta in Edmonton who approved this. This is their HD head. They looked at this text, and they tried to derive some guidance from this text, even though this is not Quran. This is an IOP standard. But that is there she had some of them are nice people, I have to say this. Some of them are very good people, but this is their HD head. Why are they doing this? I'm talking about the good people. The good ol ama that we know, they have a strong desire to help the community. They're looking for a solution.

You're trying to help the community. But our counter argument.

We want something halal, we want peace of mind.

I don't want to run away from the bank, conventional Max and go into an area where I don't have my peace of mind.

I feel like worried and you know, I'm taking a big risk for 15 years, we'll let us know. Right?

So this is the message that we send to our rule AMA and we tell them caveat is only a legal notice. It doesn't have the power of lien. As I said, maybe some other companies I heard about some other companies, they're not buying from the bank, they have their own financing. So the story could be different. There is no workers charge could be different by why they don't transfer the title. That's another issue because even these other companies are dealing with it not dealing with banks, they have this problem. No, the title will not be transferred until the full price is paid. So that's the same issue here. You see the difference. The financing could be different. They're

getting money from different sources. But this this condition at the end is not Sharia compliant. To tell me you're not an owner for 15 years. So 20 Knees, I think we need to stop here. And

we

it's 1010 o'clock. So the karma will be after five minutes.