Feminism 3-3, Blessing Or Curse? Dawahwise Panel with Aminah Chowdhry & Others

Fatima Barkatulla


Channel: Fatima Barkatulla

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The speakers emphasize the need to educate men about their desire to be "over the age of a certain age," address issues outside of their home, and pursue opportunities in life, particularly in the context of marriage. They stress the importance of not disregarding Islam and not giving up on others' needs. The conversation centers around the idea of women and the need for them to be more vocal about their work and personal life, acknowledging the impact of the pandemic on the economy and the need for women to be more vocal about their work.

AI Generated Transcript ©

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Let's hear from

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Selena soleimani. It comes along.

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You can hear me.

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Great. Nice to see you again.

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Right? Um, um, I live in Sweden. And we have a lot of Muslims and Muslims here. And I don't know about you which country you come from your sisters, but

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I wonder if, if it's difficult to

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keep your, you know, rights work working in a different society? how hard that can be as a Muslim ah

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if you have any experience

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Um, I don't know if you want to go for sisters or

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any of us good.

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So I, you know, it's funny, I hear often hear this argument from women, that I can't get a job because you know, with hijab, and I can't do this, and I can't do that. But I think that I have, you know, sometimes you have to, you know, that trust fall, you know, when you have friends and you have to put your arms back and you have to trust that they're going to catch you like, once you've done enough, and I hate to say it like that, but this is what more of our women I feel like I wish if they would do, if you do more trust falls with Allah Subhana Allah where you say, you know what, I'm gonna do it the way he says for me to do it, even though society tells me it probably won't work.

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I'm gonna do it anyway. So I did that over and over. And I was able to go all the way to the top and make six figures and everything and work for very prominent figures of state and government, with my attire. So I don't, I don't buy to that narrative to women only because, because I had the same opportunity as many other people. But if you remember what Allah Subhana, Allah tells our women and tells our men equally, when you do things like the brother was touching on for the right intention, Allah Subhana Allah, He opens doors for you, when you forsake what everyone else wants, and you only say, I'm doing this for the sake of a lot and you renew and you renew and renew your intention.

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Allah Subhana Allah, he can do anything for you. So when I have this mentality, I find myself sore. But if I keep acting like hijab is a barrier to my achievement. And then we have to ask what is achievement? what is success? redefine, like the sister said, words are powerful. I don't find it problematic. Even though I live in New York and it's my my president was comping many other things. I'm not gonna say I think we get the picture. Um, I still was doing this. So I don't I don't I didn't feel it.

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I believe sister Lena is a new Muslim. how long you've been a Muslim sister since March 14, the first night of the shot.

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So welcome. Thank you. Comedy consistently.

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In Britain, and in Britain, I think the job has, especially in the cities, it's become very normal, you know.

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And especially in London, you know, the core London, London astan.

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There's a reason for that.

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I think there are even areas where the niqab is normal, you know, in London, so, I think British people, generally, and especially London is very accepting, and

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in my experience, and they have been very accommodating, you know, culturally sensitive and all of that. But I know that in some places like France, unfortunately, like recently, I think there are some new laws that are being brought in, you know, trying to limit or stop Muslim women from wearing Hijab until they're over a certain age, or limiting them from wearing Hijab in certain settings. And I think what that highlights is, and this kind of link to feminism in the sense that often it's a feminist type arguments that are used for, you know, banning hijab or criticizing hijab.

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I think what it highlights is that the hijab is seen as a symbol of our adherence to our Deen, you know, it really is a strong symbol. And that's been the case since coloring this time. As

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highlighted. In colonialist times, the hijab was seen as a symbol of how far the the colonizers had been successful in culturally colonizing the society right. When women stopped wearing Hijab especially for example, in Algeria, you know, you have accounts of how the French tried to

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stop women they had advertising campaigns to try to an incentivize

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Muslim Yoni two Muslim men that if their wives would stop veiling, they would have better positions in government and different kind of civil service positions. So. So Pamela, like, the hijab is a very powerful symbol, and it's become that. And it also shows you how powerful and influential those who would like to see Islam diminished in the West, and there are many people in especially on the far right, etc, who wants that. It shows you how much they see that Muslim women are influential and powerful, because it's a cliche, but it's absolutely true, we are half of the oma and we give birth to the other half. So if Muslim women's adherence to their DNA can be weakened,

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you get the whole population, right, in one generation, you can just change everything. So I think we need to be aware that these things are going on, you know, many Western countries, they accepted Muslims, and especially immigration, thinking that within a generation, we would be like, you know, completely assimilated and become completely westernized and liberalized. But I think they're kind of scratching their heads and thinking how come you know, like, this new generation seems to be more attached to their, to Islam, you know, than even the past one. So I think it's important that we reach out that we don't become ghettos, that we don't get away as ourselves, you know, as

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communities and that we help people to understand the Islamic practices that we are adopting, right, like, throughout my childhood, going to school, my teachers were always asking me, I was usually the only one wearing Hijab at school. I was always asked, Do you wear that to sleep? You know?

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Are you

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you know, why do you wear that? Why do you have to cover your head? Are you bald under there, you know, these kinds of questions. And of course, sometimes gets a bit annoying. But my handle on my dad used to say just answer people nicely and explain it to them. increase people's understanding. And I think that's, that's really what we could do.

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I mean, do you have anything any points to add? You know, I just was sister Lena. Mashallah, congratulations.

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Live in Texas, Dallas, and you know, Texas, Dallas is considered to be like a Bible Belt kind of thing. But over here, I have seen that you know, here and there whenever issues like this have come up that people didn't get a job, a certain job because a very good job, that issue was taken up. And that issue was really, you know, elaborated the media article stand on that. So we do think that you know, Muslim women doing a job and being persistent about it is making a mark. So, the past two years, this is what I've seen, personally, I'm in academia, and I teach face to face and I see that you normally wear me wearing my Avaya in my day job and teaching a class and teaching people of

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different faiths is always very welcomed in a good way. Right? was interesting because I used to work as a substitute and

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I heard that if you put a shawl or a job you're not allowed in.

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And even though we don't have any official rules regulations, I think that the principal or the school might do this you know freehand you know as they please from community to community I'm not too sure about that. But they were totally forbidden

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goes from person to person and from organization to organization.

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Yeah, this is

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I'm sorry, I think I'm losing you guys. The internet just been weak here today. We're not gonna stop anytime, sister. Thank you.

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sister or brother Islamism last time you were a practice. I don't know how to address you.

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That was what Brock was sorry.

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salaam aleikum, sisters,

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Masha Allah, he was a really good stream. I've learned a lot.

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But I just had a question. Other than cultural there is extremely Schiele. Who if you listen to them, they belittle women using a hadebe, some crayons, and stuff like that. And the and that's scary. You

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Cuz I can't do it and

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I know my religion have to learn I know my rope and everything. So it doesn't get to me. But if other people watch it, this seems like what's going on? Really? So I just wanted to say, How can we approach them?

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That's a good question, actually. So you're right sisters, that there are certain individuals who do something just like that. But we can, first of all understand that something that they do. And still, at the end of the day, even if a person is a chef, or a person is a person of knowledge, still, at the end of the day, they are human beings. And human beings can make mistakes, we do not attach our being to personalities. So we learn what is good and believe what is not. So that's the one thing, but how to approach them.

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I think, you know, we should raise our arguments and raise our voices, I truly believe in that. And I truly think that, you know, if we want to reply to them, we might better give a better, you know, argument in regards to that, and not try to take them on, you know, probably my approach is that why waste time in taking them to nerding out on and, you know, going into arguments with them, why don't we, you know, teach people in a better way, and people and learn and then give the choice to people, then they can decide what is wrong and what is not, at the end of the day, I'll tell you this, you know, if there if people are really willing to learn, they will do the right thing. But if if people

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are not willing to learn, and they want to stick with what they think is right, or what benefit their interest, nobody can teach them at all.

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Can I make a little comment on my friend? Sister Zamzam? It's an interesting question. I think one of the problems in our age is that fic and Islamic preaching has become so internationalized, that sometimes something that might be true for one country and one culture. We're hearing it in a different context in a different culture. And it doesn't make sense to us, right? So, for example, just as a typical thing, like, say, this might be a crude example, but like, say, you live in Saudi Arabia, and you ask a chef, you know, is it okay to wear trousers? Right? For a woman? And the shell? I've heard she will, in the past, say no, you know, a woman shouldn't wear trousers, trousers

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or men's clothes.

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Meaning inside the home even. And the only, that might be true for that culture. Because in that culture, women never wear trousers, right. But in the West, for example, you know, we know that there are women's trousers and men's trousers, we know there's a difference, right? And we have a different culture. So sometimes we hear that footwear or that opinion from a scholar in another country, that might be true for that country, because that's seen as men's clothes, for example. And we think, oh, that's, that's so extreme, right? Because it feels like that for our context in our country. And that's the thing about flip that when it comes to Islamic law, you know, we're

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encouraged to seek opinions and fatawa from the scholars that are in our context in our locality, especially if we can, especially those who understand our culture and our, you know, the nuances of our culture. And so I think sometimes it's just a case of cultural difference. And so I don't think we need to be combative. And I think, even within the West, you know, I've been to classes where the shoe wouldn't allow sisters to ask questions, right? Because they said, you know, the sisters voice might be attractive, and I don't know what right what, what reason they used.

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And then I went to classes where the shield didn't see that as a problem. And they knew that well, they understood that if the sister asked the question with good adab and a good way and, you know, women need to study the deen as well. And that's fine, you know. So I think what we should do is seek out the scholars who we can study with, we can see have a good understanding, and we should, instead of trying to refute those who we don't agree with, rather than that, no, go and study with the ones that we we can, you know, understand that they they do understand our context and our

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our needs to Zakah host that show. Thank you very much and thank you, everyone. Salaam Alaikum.

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We just go to Brother back to you very quickly. Salaam Alaikum brother

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While ecommerce Salam rahmatullah wa barakato.

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Do you have any questions? Yes, brothers, thank you very much for Roman representation today.

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I was very much in question. Last name, where are the woman woman did came? I have a question and a little bit personal reflection.

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I completely agree with panel, that we should listen to those girls who have few complaints, emotional issues, and resolve them accordingly. But domestic issues, got nothing to do with some time, a broader Islamic culture, domestic issue and cultural issues. Were what happening in the walls around the house. We have a lot of examples. I won't go too far, complaining about emotional status of young girls who came last time or today? Well, I can tell them as a man, I am the master of how to change nappies of my son.

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I am really doing everything what we can, no man can deny any sort of house chores, if he sees that their wives or sisters are, you know, struggling.

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It goes back to the teaching and educating yourself in your home.

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Sometime we need to address ourselves as the young sister we came before that you're not not every man in the household is a bossy or a bad person. He's your brother is your father. And absolutely mother's also has a great role to educate how to be equal. not equal in a way, but equally. I can't pronounce that word the sister was discussing before. So it is Yeah, actually, yes, that's her brother. Okay, so what happens before the I joined the stream, I just finished vacuuming the house. I would love for my wife to go and mow the lawn, but she can't do it. I do that too. But wherever we see the need, we are supposed to be always there is nothing to do with a man is sitting always in

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waiting for the dinner.

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It happens in the majority of houses, probably. But as a husband, I'm so proud that I was able to contribute towards my family when I'm changing kids nappies, and I'm looking after kids as well.

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I understand not many men do that. But I was feeling good about it that I contributed towards my family. If we look at this way, that a lot of women, my head goes towards them. They do a lot more than men.

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And we need to appreciate that. And those women who do a lot in our homes, they need to also take pride and not like to complain, save, but take pride what they have contributed towards families.

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They are assets. Everybody has all these girls up there. My sisters have said, we all have been given roles. We are not really, really equal man is a man a woman is a woman, a man cannot be a woman a woman cannot be man, that's totally broad subject. But in a home environment. A lot of girls have some issues, emotional issues, complaints that can be addressed by listening by some of this helping workers, social workers. And also it goes back to again, what I initially said, our own household environment, how we train our kids, and I'm thankful to my great mother again, there is a woman

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who taught us to respect each other at home, look after each other the way we could and give hand towards each other. Thank you for giving me the opportunity brother Matsu, to say my few words and sister probably going to say something I will carefully listen Thank you.

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That was so it was nice to hear. You know, you speak in that way you sound like a very supportive husband and I think you're right you know that

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these are human characteristics right? Like human beings. If you see another human being struggling you help out it's got nothing to do with it. And I think we need to get out of that mindset that we have my rights and your rights. And you know, it's it's really not about that. It's about me

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cooperation, right. That's how a healthy home is built. So yeah, I think it's important that parents are aware of that. And there's so many things like emphasizing aren't there in Islam, the equal treatment between children? And I think that's something that pairs, I'm not saying that boys and girls need to be brought up in exactly the same way, necessarily. No, but what I'm saying is that parents have to be very aware that they, that children don't grow up with,

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you know, complexes, because they feel that one sibling was treated nicer than the other. Like he said, these are human things. These are not in really strictly to do with religion, per se, or, you know, because obviously, Islam teaches us to care about one another, and to fulfill each other's needs. And, and that's a general thing, right? If you don't need to be told that that's something that as a human being, you should want to do. Does that okay? Thank you. Absolutely. Just add one thing to that, if we just add this layer to it, this prophet muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he used to do housework in his own home, and add this to so that this might become a source of, you

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know, a source of piety for us. So if he's the best of a human being can do it. Who else is left?

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Yes, is that I mean, I absolutely agree. But some of our sisters have this issue, I heard it,

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I relate to it.

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There is huge culture issues, some part of this world, we understand that. But we need these man's to come out as well, to say, look, we are here, we do what we can as well, this is not the issue that we should have to go to a live stream and complain about our home issues. I understand this may be going towards a lot of other households in particular country, for example, or for certain cultures.

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But I am quite confident, a woman who is such

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educated, and who who is so brave, who can come live on a stream and raise issues of her personal home, can raise this issue within her home as well. And she can, she can definitely address this. Thank you, brother, man. So I was going, going back to that issue, my apologies. But, inshallah, can I just turn the highlight one more thing regarding this topic, just so that it's not too one sided.

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I want to also say that I think, as women and as daughters, we also need to be brought up to recognize what the men are doing, you know, outside the home, right? So in a typical Muslim family, the man is responsible for earning the money and you know, providing for the family and the woman is obviously going to be somebody needs to take care of the home and raise the children, right. So, sometimes what happens is, because society considers for some reason, considers having a career and going out and working as some kind of privilege, right, rather than seeing it as a burden, and also a challenge and a difficulty. What can happen is, we grow up thinking, Well, my dad is lying, you

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know, sitting around, and mom is doing the work when actually dad has been slogging away all day, right? But he's now come home and he's relaxing. So give him a chance to relax. Right? So I think, along with saying that, of course, I sort of lost the lesson. I'm used to help in the house where it was needed, etc, etc. At the same time, we've got to point out sometimes to the younger generation and to our children, what their dads are doing, you know, because sometimes they don't see they see dad relaxing at home, don't realize that he's been facing the world. He's been dealing with all these difficulties. He's got all the financial problems on in his head, right. And so there's

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nothing wrong. In fact, it's it's an honor for a wife to be, you know, serving her husband effect. I'm sure my husband would rather I would I was there right now. Helping him out with something.

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I think the Quran Allah subhanaw taala captures it quite well and certainly said the same chapter about women in was the material to races and do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned. And for women is a share of what they have earned.

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ask Allah for his bounty. So what I believe in the stream and the last stream we were trying to highlight is the fact that

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feminism somehow is opposed to what Allah has ordained in the Quran is that God has ordained for his creation. And they want to break the families apart, they want to break society apart in a way with their own whims and desires that they want to show this equality in socio political, economic, all aspects, when in reality, we have different ways of what is the approaching our issues, our problems and our the socio political economic aspects. So this is something I think we wanted to highlight from this particular stream. And now that we are nearing the end of the stream, we got only two more guests I believe. So inshallah we should be wrapping up fairly quickly. I want to once again, thank

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from the bottom of my heart for all the sisters and all those studies who have come on of our panel and spent the time nearly three hours more than three hours

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leaving the families and their children to be taken care of by the data I'm assuming. So just looking for that status.

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Yeah, system Adria.

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You're unmuted. So you need

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tsunami calm already?

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Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Oh, is it? It's unmuted. I think we can hear you. Can you hear me properly? Because my connection is kind of fried. We can hear you loud and clear. Go ahead. Okay, good.

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Okay, so I had a question on, like, I've just wanted to ask, like, Is it okay for me to be someone who focuses on their career and, like, pushes that more in than maybe, say, like, becoming a mother and becoming a wife, for example, all of these things, even though that is part of the Sunnah to, to, to become a wife and to, to, to fulfill like half your deen in that way. And, but at the same time, I want to lead a balanced life and I don't want to push just one area of the deen on myself, like, if Allah has opened the door of a career for me, I'm gonna go through that. And I'm going to excel in that as much as I can, to the point of like, to become like the best in that field if I

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have the opportunity to do but at the same time, I if Allah opens the door of marriage and other things like, like, you know, obviously, if your mom is alive, you serve with your mom, and you serve her well. And you every role that I like, gives you you try to do your best in it. And it really depends on what Allah like, gives what I like, Am I gives you, basically. So I just wanted to know, like, if I can choose what to focus on without putting a lot of like, pressure on myself in one area.

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Does that make sense?

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Like, I feel like we should balance and I feel sometimes we don't see balance.

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I'll just make a little comment. If anyone else wants to they can as well it is I can hear for your question. I think the thing is, sister, but

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we do have a biological clock, that's ticking, right. So without wanting to put pressure on anyone, I'm just saying, it's just the fact that we need to accept that as human beings, there is kind of window of time, right? within which we probably need to try to get married and, you know, establish a family and those are natural things that we as human beings want. And if we don't want it now, we will want it probably later on. Right. So I think the point is that

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it's especially in the Muslim community, there's usually a window of time that you want to take advantage of, and you want to, you know, actively try to get married, you know, and that's, it's a it's an important and wonderful part of life.

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So not to neglect to that, you know, not to kind of push opportunities to get married away. If you are, you know, pursuing other interests, you have other studies and things like that, yes. That shouldn't be a problem. It's just, I guess, unfortunately in our times the the kind of balances sometimes tipped in the wrong direction. And you know, I know should you have sisters come to them who

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reach their 40s and etc, who didn't get married, and then who have who are suffering, you know, as a result of that, and they really feel it, they really wish that they could have got married earlier and had children and, and they feel like in a way that kind of lied to you know about this idea that they could have it all and they could get married whenever. And so I think we have to be realistic as well you know.

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And as the prophets, Allah Sallam said, If a man comes to you, or he said to the fathers, if a if a man comes to us character, and then satisfy you, then and in other words he comes to you to propose, then marry him to your daughter. So the prophets of Salaam is encouraging

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us to take those opportunities, right, and not to see them as a blessing from Allah. And unfortunately, many sisters don't see marriage proposals as risk as a blessing from Allah that might not be there forever, you know. So I think it's about having that balance.

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I myself got married when I was a teenager. And I'm studying and, you know, pursuing things now, and my children are a lot older. So, you know, there are different ways of doing things I think

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I would do here, brother Rogers perspective on that has been quite far one. I know it's quite late. I really appreciate your patients. Brother. Roger, do you want to make any comments?

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I think sister Fatima has mentioned it really well. I just add a slightly different angle to it, which is that

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at the end of the day, we have to look at it from this perspective that we are here to

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work worship Allah subhanaw taala. And so our ultimate success is success in dunya and akhira. This is why we asked Ravana Athena for dunya Sana fulfill after the webinar. So our ultimate objective is that we want success in dunya inocula. And if you want to be the best, because I mean, for myself, I mean, as per the Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu sallam, he said, Love for your brother, what you love for yourself. So if I want like a grade, in Accra, if I want an A plus plus, or if I want an A star in the Sahara, I want to know what the best of people did. So when you look at it, from the woman's perspective, the leaders of the women of Paradise have been mentioned in the Hadith of the

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Prophet sallallahu Sallam he mentioned about

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Miriam and Asya, and her deja and Fatima, may Allah be pleased with all of them. And all of these women were people who were married, or, for example, they were raising a family looking after their home and this is what made them

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rise in rank. So there is nothing stopping a woman from working as sister Fatima very eloquently pointed out, there is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to work and having a career. But Alhamdulillah when we want to strive for the best, then there is great

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reward and great honor from Allah subhanaw taala in raising a family and this is something that gives you a win win in in both circumstances, meaning it gives you that peace of mind having a family having children, having people who are around you, who love you, who care for you, all of those things. And if you can, at the same time, balance your career as well, then, you know, all the more power to you. So inshallah, we should just make sure that in terms of our goals that we have, we don't neglect our Accra goals in terms of achieving our dunya we goals. So inshallah, if you have a balance of that, that's the win win situation we can have, I guess, Can I just add to what brother

00:33:50--> 00:34:34

Roger said that remember, that was an excellent point, brother, Roger, you know, when we're lying in our graves, the brothers and sisters, all of us, you know, whether you're a woman or a man, when we're lying in our graves, there are very few things that are going to continue to benefit us. You know, we've been told there's only three things that will continue to benefit us one is so the kajaria that we gave in a circuit that is ongoing. One is some knowledge that we left behind, that continues to benefit people, but one of them which is very, very powerful is a righteous child making blood for you, right. So I don't think we can really underestimate the investment that a

00:34:34--> 00:34:54

child and raising a family and, you know, raising and being married and the the maturation that takes place in all of that, you know, is for you as a human being but then also the reward and the benefit, you know, as a believer, I don't think we can underestimate that.

00:34:56--> 00:34:59

I think that's a very powerful point, you know, because righteous

00:35:00--> 00:35:41

Children don't just they're not born, they're made out. Yes, and this is from the parents. This is from the upbringing of the parent, parents, and obviously they, the education they receive, which again falls in the parents. So it's quite important to make that assertion when we talk about topics like this. And also this life is short enough, your career will only go so far, you know, your life is short, and the author is something which is eternal. So we should work more for the eternal for the unending, rather than one which is quite limited in its duration, and culminates into good mouth, every soul will taste that whether you're a Muslim, whether you're non Muslim, practicing non

00:35:41--> 00:35:46

practicing, regardless of that. So inshallah we should all strive to

00:35:48--> 00:36:25

not only be righteous ourselves, but also bring up our children to be righteous and to educate them correctly in the theme. Foremost, and then of course, we have to educate them about the Tony as well, inshallah. Brother Can I make one final point just on this, I know we have to move on is I want to say, because I noticing this is a big trend in the US the pursuit of the career and delaying of marriage and all this, we have to be really careful that as we're doing that, we are not falling prey to the other temptations. So there's women for him, and there's brothers, who they will delay marriage to late 20s and 30s. But then now they're kind of talking to guys and girls on the side. So

00:36:25--> 00:36:53

you're delaying marriage, so you can pursue career, but then you're engaging in things that are very displeasing to Allah, as you're pleasing Him to pursue something that will help the community. So we have to be really careful that as we're delaying marriage, and we have these natural human desires, that we're not falling prey to these other things that are hold on that could possibly make those great intentions that we originally had, that they can take them and steal the reward and put us in a bad position in that hotel. But thank you so much, brother, Roger, I wanted to say that as well, because I

00:36:55--> 00:36:56


00:36:58--> 00:37:01

Rob sister, is okay, if I say one more thing or

00:37:03--> 00:37:04


00:37:05--> 00:37:06

get brief.

00:37:11--> 00:37:21

Oh, okay. Cool. So please, if you? Yes, can you hear me? Yeah. Again, is bad connection.

00:37:26--> 00:37:34

So just the topic of like marriage and how we shouldn't delay. Okay, so the topic of marriage and how we shouldn't delay marriage? Yeah.

00:37:35--> 00:38:15

I would say that sometimes when you go to people to ask them about marriage, to speak about marriage to them, like for example, like the, the elders of the community, they would ask you sometimes, why do you want to get married? Like what like the act like you're asking them for something? Like, you want to commit a sin or something I like meaning. I'm saying I'm asking for to basically I'm asking you to help me help me towards a sauna, basically, which is something that's going to increase my faith. And but I think we've made marriage something kind of like, heavy and something like a huge responsibility when it's actually meant to,

00:38:16--> 00:38:33

like in you and, and it's a big responsibility, but it comes with big reward. Because anything that is more, like you struggle more for you get more reward for it from a lot. So I feel like when you go to people and they say things like, okay, they start questioning your intentions, like, okay, like,

00:38:36--> 00:39:09

for what reason that I feel like that puts me off a bit sometimes. Like, I'm just like, what am I committing a crime for asking about marriage wanting to speak about marriage? Like I seriously it's just, I want to expand my portfolio with Allah like, I want to do more good deeds, I want to do like get involved in more, you know, charity, marriage everything so that our last piece of me How do I know which which deed Alma is going to accept from me? I don't know. So I have to do as much good as possible. Right? So I'm going to go down marriage that that route, because

00:39:10--> 00:39:43

that can weigh very heavily on on my good deeds, on the scale on that side of the scale, on the day of judgment, so I'm gonna go for it inshallah, but it's just about people and their response to you when you speak about marriage and they say, you know what, focus on yourself, focus on yourself. And like, Okay, this is me focusing on myself, I want to pursue something for the sake of Allah, this is going to increase me inshallah. So sorry, please, can you like, just refute this people? inshallah?

00:39:44--> 00:39:46

Yes, so I can elaborate on this.

00:39:47--> 00:40:00

You know, sometimes the elders in the community might say, first, finish the degree that you're doing, or make a career first, or you know, you're you have to be a certain age you're not mature enough. This guy

00:40:00--> 00:40:39

Different thing can happen. But this is all cultural understanding. And this does not belong to our being. As, as all the speakers have elaborated, so you're right, we have this issue that we tend to say, okay, and especially to to the boys too, we say that, that, you know, first complete this in this, for example, somebody is becoming a doctor that takes him like, for example, years, and until the guy is 30 to 33, to tell him do not get married. So this is wrong, this is not correct. What you're thinking is actually you're on the right track. And as all the speakers have said, So yes, this is a very cultural thing. And this happens, because, you know, we think that our children have

00:40:39--> 00:40:56

to be independent, and I don't understand what this term really means being independent, that first you're independent, you're economically stable, and then you get married. And and that's the that's the wrong notion. That's the wrong understanding for your very right department.

00:40:59--> 00:41:12

I just want to say keep working, keep working on your elders, yeah. That's what you need to do need to keep that I'm working on them. Because sometimes they think you're so young, you know, they still see you as a baby, they little baby. So

00:41:14--> 00:41:45

sometimes you have to show them that you're an adult now, and you know, you're making these, you're asking them in a, from a mature perspective, and, and you're right, you know, parents, if your children fall into her arm, because you stopped them from getting married, and they were interested in getting married and they came to you, then, you know, the sin is on you. We we need to be making it easier, of course. But sometimes it's just that, you know, they see you as their kids. So you have to,

00:41:46--> 00:41:48

you have to kind of work on them in Sharla.

00:41:50--> 00:41:50

It is

00:41:51--> 00:41:52

a great question.

00:41:53--> 00:41:53


00:41:55--> 00:42:40

Just very quickly, I'll just I'll handle that's a great point. And one other point, to sort of very quickly point out is that I've seen this trend in other communities, especially from the Indian subcontinent, non non Muslim communities, where they have taken this idea of education to the extreme. And there are many parents that I've spoken to many friends of mine that I've spoken to who have daughters at home now that are in their mid 30s, early 40s, who have multiple advanced degrees, and unable to secure husbands. So this is not a an Islamic problem. This is not a Muslim problem. This is a where do you put your priorities problem? And, and we have other communities out there

00:42:40--> 00:42:45

that I've experienced this that are now regretting heavily that they even

00:42:46--> 00:42:59

encouraged their children to go down this route, because now they're having other issues. But just a quick point to make. Thank you. To her. Sister. robbia. last guest Salaam Alaikum.

00:43:00--> 00:43:01

wailuku. Salah. Hello.

00:43:04--> 00:43:05

Can you hear me?

00:43:07--> 00:43:24

Oh, you came on. Last time, didn't you? Was it from the Netherlands? Yeah, I did. Actually. I'm from the Netherlands. Yes, I remember. Well, I see the sisters that were a lot more very fickle. I'm so proud of you. They almost put aside a plus your life. And your brothers also, of course.

00:43:26--> 00:43:29

My my issues actually.

00:43:31--> 00:43:41

It's about the hijab. I know it has, like it has to do with feminism. But it has more to do with my own self and the issue that I have.

00:43:43--> 00:43:49

I used to actually wear the niqab and the hijab, my dogs anymore.

00:43:51--> 00:43:53

Like I fell and I fell hard.

00:43:54--> 00:44:02

And I have been struggling with getting out, actually. And getting back to

00:44:04--> 00:44:08

to the point where I was really happy wearing messages and calls and

00:44:12--> 00:44:15

yeah, so I really want to address this as if you can

00:44:17--> 00:44:35

make it easy for your sisters just to give a background on the sister has had some physical abuse and basically mistreatment in the country that she lives in. So I believe she's asking for your advice what she should do in this situation. That means sister Robbie, if I've misrepresented

00:44:36--> 00:44:44

You mean that she's had physical abuse into his job? Yeah, I was actually at

00:44:45--> 00:44:46

people. No, that's

00:44:49--> 00:44:59

my family doesn't have an issue with it. But they don't really like me wearing the pants. They rather have me just wearing the traditional no

00:45:00--> 00:45:01

Like actually cultural?

00:45:04--> 00:45:09

Because I don't. Yeah, you know, it's, it's not really that correct hijab.

00:45:10--> 00:45:25

And this is where I started struggling actually. And I had a lot of abuse from non Muslims outside of my home. And I used to wear in the pub, actually before I got married.

00:45:27--> 00:45:35

And at the time when I got married, yeah, my husband was at work. So I had to do a lot of things by myself outside and

00:45:37--> 00:45:38

yeah, so I

00:45:39--> 00:45:44

had a lot of problems then. Can I ask the sister questions, sisters?

00:45:46--> 00:46:15

Sister, I'd love to know you said you know, there were some abuses and situation. And may Allah Subhana. Allah make it easy for you and protect you from any any mistreatment. I wanted to ask you. What What do you feel actually deep down? Even though that happened, right? Everything is connected to an emotion like this. Everything is connected to an experience. If you could pinpoint the reason you took it off? Yeah, I really love my niqab, of course. And I still do. Yeah.

00:46:16--> 00:46:39

But the problem was actually when I took off my knee up, and then I, I started to wear like, only the abaya with like a scarf. And then I started feeling like I wasn't wearing the correct hijab. So that made it easier like to just take it off, because then I felt like

00:46:41--> 00:47:00

yeah, I don't know. You mean, like you felt like a hypocrite because you weren't doing the full thing. So maybe this is not acceptable. So what's the point type everything. I will not a hypocrite. But I. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't feel like a hypocrite. And I still don't. Because Yeah, no, I want to be clear, too. I wasn't saying that. You were I was.

00:47:02--> 00:47:38

I wouldn't be like, some people tell you this. Some sisters say well, I can't wear hijab, because I'm broken. So until I'm fixed until I'm a better Muslim, I can't put it on. And then the thing is Alyssa, kind of at the Edit, like perfection is not a requirement for hijab, people think, you know, they have to get to a certain level. And then I hear that arguments. I wasn't sure. And that's what I was asking. I was just trying to connect the idea of why you took it off and what keeps it off for you know, well at work as a job I had. So I started working after I got divorced. So after I got divorced, I had to go out and work.

00:47:40--> 00:48:01

And actually, that's when the problem started. Because at work, I couldn't wear my new path. Then I took my off my new path. And then after that, they started to complain about my jumper. So then I had, like, you know, it was just small steps. But in the end, I just ended up thinking, you know,

00:48:02--> 00:48:27

so it was, if you don't mind was also because I was like weak in my Amen. And that's also because of all the problems that came at me like at once. So, sister which country are you in? Just so I live in the Netherlands? Yeah, last time I said they banned the nipah but they didn't actually they partly so you can go into places with my

00:48:30--> 00:48:30


00:48:33--> 00:48:57

You know, I can really? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. It seems like you've been through a lot you know, in a in a short amount of time divorce and having to go out to work and probably discrimination. And yeah, actually, at the time I got divorced, that's when my daughter was born also so so Pamela so you've you've had a lot of a lot on your plate. Last time we

00:48:59--> 00:49:00

help you and all of that

00:49:01--> 00:49:03

thing is that you don't want

00:49:05--> 00:49:11

First of all, we said to you that taking off the neck off means that you're not wearing correct t job anymore.

00:49:13--> 00:49:45

It was like like from all those small steps and then in the end when I started to wear just the scarf with pants and everything and I started to think like this is not what it's supposed to be so then I took off the scarf. And then I started to like when I was feeling a bit better about myself and everything and the situation calmed down a bit. Then I started to work on like the way I dress and I still do but I do still go further.

00:49:47--> 00:49:59

And do you pray sister? Yeah, yeah, I I actually this is something that I did hold on to because I yeah, this is the part of my like my dream that was

00:50:00--> 00:50:02

Easy because it was private, it's like,

00:50:05--> 00:50:05


00:50:06--> 00:50:24

So please make sure that you keep a hold of your son or, you know, because the Salah is the key to everything else, you know, once, once a person starts losing the Salah, then then they become in great peril. So it's very good that you're holding on to the salop. You know, please keep that up.

00:50:25--> 00:51:15

And please be aware of that shape on. He's always, you know, working on us, right? He's always working on that. So he will make you feel like, Well, I'm not perfect. I'm not doing things, right. So let me just be all or nothing. And as Muslims, we don't need to be all or nothing. Okay? Do your best, do the best that you can in your situation. But don't do all or nothing. Because then only I'm sure that all your experiences, from all experiences, you must have felt that the one person or the one being that you do have in your life is Allah. Yeah. And you don't want to lose your connection to Allah. Because then that's the real loss, isn't it? Yeah, that's absolutely. One of the things

00:51:15--> 00:51:20

they happen to people. Yeah. What will be that connection with Allah? So

00:51:21--> 00:51:29

I would really encourage you to, to not allow shaytan to give you these thoughts, you know that I'm not good enough. This job isn't good enough. Some

00:51:31--> 00:51:48

job? Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. But the issue is not only this, but yeah, what I felt also, what, what like, also influenced me a lot is the fact that when I started to have these issues, and started to like, you know,

00:51:49--> 00:51:51

go out of balance, like,

00:51:52--> 00:51:59

I felt like the sisters that I had around me, you know, because you live in a very different world when you're like,

00:52:01--> 00:52:13

Yeah, when you're practicing, and it's like, you have all these sisters around you. And they are so you know, they're supporting you and everything. But when I actually needed them,

00:52:14--> 00:52:34

there was no one there. So this was also a big thing. Maybe you would like to take the contact of one of those standards, maybe keep in touch with them. And maybe, you know, sometimes when you speak heart to heart in private instead of being on the stream, it's, it's easier that way not because the shutdown is always there. Like Fatima said,

00:52:35--> 00:52:55

I don't mind because maybe other sisters, oh, sorry, sorry. But maybe there's other sisters, they are listening or, you know, that goes through the same things. And they don't, maybe they don't want to speak out or anything like that. But I'm not ashamed of my situation, I just want some advice. So I can better myself ish.

00:52:57--> 00:53:38

I can say something very natural that when people go to hardship, especially divorce, you know, our automatic said, about divorce, that it is kind of like, you know, someone has passed away. So feel the pain is real. And and this is my experience with many women that I come across that when difficulties like this, especially coming from other people espouse the people around you, your friends, your family, the spirituality gets affected, and this goes down. So what you're feeling is not abnormal. It's not something that other people have not thought. So don't blame yourself too much about it. It's okay. No, I don't

00:53:40--> 00:54:28

feel like that. There's a cascade effect. And it's a stage after you pass through that stage is the part of my saying it's Michael Muslim is saying that people struggled up, we will enter into a state that you accept, at do think this Yes, but you know, for that you need a group of people who support you. So a good thing will be to maybe, you know, maybe find a group that can help you to know the story of the people of the time. Right? What was good when demand was being tested? What is the loss of power the teacher find a group that's the most you're not so maybe you can hang around with people and find people online, maybe in that manner, or bigger groups in that manner? Who will

00:54:28--> 00:55:00

support you in that? And you know, things like that. So then inshallah but the for the future, I might say, that gives us the guideline. Islam does not tell us that everyone has to wait agenda till God is one way. So what you know, I don't mean, or I'm sorry if I if I maybe misspoke, or, but I don't mean, like, only wearing jilbab is right here, but there's a lot of different ways to wear hijab, you know. So yeah, just actually

00:55:00--> 00:55:08

really stepped away from all of these things. And I started to were like, really, this was not the correct job. So

00:55:10--> 00:55:13

you went through such a hard time. And

00:55:14--> 00:55:29

you comes to, to me lo happens. It happens to all of us don't feel bad about. It's okay. Yeah. So but the strange thing is, yeah, the strange thing is how much I love my job and I want to wear it, but I can't like,

00:55:30--> 00:55:32

No, no, no, inshallah, you will

00:55:33--> 00:56:14

find the time and the strength will come that you will start wearing it again, inshallah, you come in here and expressing this concern in front of so many people speaks of the courage that you have, the courage that you have to accept and to do this, and inshallah, Allah subhanaw taala will bless you with the courage to do that. So don't feel bad about don't just do your best. And, you know, try to do a, you know, when these things happen, one step at a time, take small steps at a time, maybe add one thing, then another thing, then another thing, right. And I would say in this situation, most importantly, and I think this is one of the things maybe from this platform, we can say is

00:56:14--> 00:56:48

that, and I'm a big proponent, proponent of that we need to have some kind of support groups of for other women, too, as Mr. Michael Muslim is saying to his departure by saying, we need to listen, right? We need some kind of platforms where we can come together and do these kinds of things. I'm very actively involved with the Unitarian Church, because of the university, you know, we have exchanges with them. And one thing that I've noticed over the years, so many people join those, those places, because of the support groups that they have.

00:56:49--> 00:57:08

Yes, Pamela, this is also a very big issue when we don't have support around us. That's what I was talking about earlier. Because that's, that's when you need the sisters most and then I felt like they all had like, Oh, they were all busy. No one called anymore. No one asked like how you're doing I still breathing.

00:57:09--> 00:57:51

That's the thing I need Mr. Michael Muslim. I was saying in the beginning, this is why she came online. Because it's kind of a need, that women need this kind of support where they need somebody to listen to them. And you know, and acknowledge that. So first of all, don't feel bad. Don't feel bad about that. But yes, you're right, that you know, the courage is there and we'll get to that temporarily. When Archie comes our spirituality does go down. So but insha Allah, may Allah subhanaw taala make it easy for you and I kind of you know, I respect you for the courage you have for this. So we'll reward you but don't feel bad, find your best buy your best will come alongside.

00:57:53--> 00:58:24

Can I say one last thing I just want to suggest one very specific industry expert advice. When I'm having a very, very hard time what has always helped me and has never never failed me for anything like this is the Sonora assassin. Um, he says the slave is closest to his Lord in Suzhou. So what I would do is in the last third of the night, continuously, I would put my face into a sigil. And I would call out to Allah subhana wa Taala at this deep, deep feeling that I have everything expressed to a sister, I'm sure you can say that and more. And Allah, Allah, he always answers the caller, at the moment that he calls and May Allah Subhana Allah meet is for you in showbiz. And

00:58:26--> 00:58:32

thank you so much for your advice. I just, I just want to say, for the sake of Allah,

00:58:33--> 00:58:53

just as a last kind of advice to you, I just want to say that, of course, you know, we love you for the sake of Allah and we support you, you know, in your struggles. I just want to point out to you that, you know, really, please reflect on this, that sometimes when most the Muslim community disappoint us,

00:58:54--> 00:59:34

we start with disobey Allah, a person can disobey Allah in order to what seek revenge on the Muslim community. I'm not saying you're doing that. I'm just saying, you know, it's something for us to really think about. Because sometimes you hear this, somebody says, You know, I had a bad experience. So I stopped praying. I had this, these Muslims didn't treat me well. And so I stopped doing this. You see, there's no connection between those people. No, but of course, you don't have to, like we don't have to work cool on the Muslim community, of course, should be supporting you. Yeah, exactly. It's the other way around. When you go in through these things, and you need like

00:59:34--> 00:59:59

someone to tell you like, wake up, what are you doing, you know, and you don't have that. That's more the issue than that I really was disappointed in in them. I mean, of course, they have their own lives, but it's like, you know, you feel like you need that support. And it's not there anymore, because you've made mistakes because you know, like your mother, your sister. What can

01:00:00--> 01:00:23

What can cause a spiral? Okay, this is something that the alumni talk about, that can lead a person into a spiral of more negativity and more kind of distance away from Allah. Is that you start? Will you stop doing some of the other commands of Allah? Yeah. So that's the you want to do the opposite, you want to do the opposite,

01:00:24--> 01:01:09

that you're not saying the chatbot is encouraging you to kind of stop doing certain things. No, you want to double down and do those things. Because that's how your mind will increase. Yeah, by increasing the good deeds, increasing bang Allah. And that's what sobor is, isn't it? sobor is continuing to obey Allah, despite what's going on, and continuing to stay away from sin despite what's going on. So although, you know, we have, we do sympathize with you, I would like to be to show you a bit of tough love. And say to you that, my dear sister, you don't want to be a person who loses the dunya and the ocular, right? You want to be somebody who, regardless of the trials of this

01:01:09--> 01:01:29

life, you stayed connected to Allah, you stayed obedient to Allah to the best of your ability, that's all to the best of your ability in your situation. So to the best of your ability, when it comes to the hijab, when it comes to the the obligations because he job is an obligation, you know,

01:01:30--> 01:01:45

Allah subhanaw taala has given us guidelines about how corporate guidelines Come on, he's commanded us how we must be in public, right, everything except the face on the hand to be covered with something loose. Yeah, any opaque

01:01:47--> 01:02:16

not something that is a dazzling display in and of itself, if it fulfills those things, then be happy. And, you know, do your best to do that, because the one best friend that you have is Allah. And so in trying to appears other people, if you break that bond, then what do you have? What do you have left? You know, yeah, no, I'm just, I'm trying to, like, make it stronger, you know, because

01:02:19--> 01:02:20

I have

01:02:23--> 01:02:38

is like a locator for your advice, I appreciate so much. Thank you so much. And inshallah I can get into a contact with some, if you if you connect us with our [email protected] and we'll get you all the same contact details for the sisters or support group.

01:02:45--> 01:02:54

We really need to come to a close now, I mean, I do really appreciate that you've been sitting there for more than three and a half hours with your family, and so on.

01:02:55--> 01:02:57

So, like malachite and

01:02:58--> 01:03:15

we just go along to just say a few concluding words on the stream on the subject. Sharla and not to prolong any further. Shall we start with brother in Pakistan is getting very late. Just very briefly.

01:03:17--> 01:03:21

What what what you'd like to share as a concluding remark in Sharla on this topic,

01:03:27--> 01:04:01

I would say that I think it's more about understanding our responsibilities than about demanding our rights. Men and women both need to understand that they have responsibilities on them from Allah subhanaw taala. And as long as we do our part because we understand that not everybody in the world is going to give us our rights you know, so what we should look at is that am I fulfilling my responsibilities on others around me So I think if you look at it from that perspective, inshallah this whole issue of men right women rights is going to be resolved in South Allah Baraka lucky.

01:04:04--> 01:04:06

Mustapha Amina, yes.

01:04:08--> 01:04:47

Tierra for inviting me here today and giving the opportunity to be here, you can be allowed to reward you for doing all of this and my concluding remark would be that you know, have Allah subhanho wa Taala at the center of our lives and that will solve everything else for us. Of course, challenges are there, of course human beings make mistakes and all of these things go on, but inshallah we have to keep trying. And we have to keep trying not for ourselves and but for other people as well. So inshallah and then you know, the rights are always on never demanded, so and there are by pleasing Allah subhanho wa Taala to inshallah nail us with a given topic to do that.

01:04:56--> 01:04:56

You could want

01:04:59--> 01:04:59

I think

01:05:00--> 01:05:05

I just want to say that 100 Allah, Allah Subhana, Allah blessed us with Islam, and

01:05:06--> 01:05:31

he gave us in it the way to look at the world in with such wisdom, if only we were to reflect and we were to really look into, you know, the wisdoms, we would see them. Unfortunately, the narrative is often hijacked, it's taken over and so we can't see the beauty. But I think in essence, what we can say is that Allah subhanaw taala

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is neither male nor female, okay? And he is our highest authority. So as Muslim women, we submit to Allah, we submit to Allah, and he sets the standard, and we don't make men our standard. And I hope everyone can go with that message. And I encourage everybody to seek knowledge, study the CRR study Islam properly, because I think one of the biggest problems in our community is ignorance of our own Deen. So just come along here and salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.

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crypto mindfulness Lima.

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wanted to say, Hello hydron for creating this platform and Mila spent with added reward each and every person that was here taking every moment of their time in less than one hour with the island counted on your scale.

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times 10. I wanted to say maybe first 20 sisters who's having doubt in their faith and feminism and those ideologies creeping in? Instead of asking why because I deal with this with women a lot. Instead of asking, Why can I not do this? and Why can I not do that? Instead ask why are you asking why? Why are you asking why? What have you been made to feel as if there's something wrong with the way that our Deen is because oftentimes, these feelings come from another place of influence. And lastly, for each and every one of us, just I remind myself as I remind everyone else, to try as best we can to give everyone their Huck, we are all shepherds of sheep. We each have a place if we have

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myself as a mother, I make sure my children get their rights. You know, as a father, if you make sure that his wife gets in the kids gets we all do these things. Allah Subhana Allah will make sure that the home is a place of Baraka and a place where our daughters are our boys, all of them. They're brought up in a way that is very healthy and very true and aligned with Islam so May Allah Penwith Allah make it easy for all of us to do this I mean your

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passion your point I think everyone said a lot there it's quite late. So keep it brief. Ramadan is just around the corner now. So insha Allah May Allah Lucknow Ramadan we did that we we do the best during Ramadan make it easy for everyone and now like Sep from us our a better our fasting what was an hour as a cat and whatever good works that we tend to do inshallah.

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So just Allah here once again to the to the brother, brother rodya sister, Amina study, Amina Sheikha Fatima, and sister mindful muslimah, for your help in making this topic more interesting than what it would be just with the two of us here. So thank you very much. And we learned a lot from you. Initial line feature, we hope that you will come back to our panel, maybe discuss some other topics, which are related to women in STEM, and maybe not nonsense as well. So just have a look here. If you're lucky presented to us, does that just come along? without making any longer I'd really appreciate your present privilege and honor listening to all of you and learning from you. So

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we just hope that our Muslim brothers or sisters have benefited and will benefit So please, please share this stream and share with your friends your families, because we have an excellent discussion here from our esteemed panel members. So until next time, Hanukkah law behind the shadows