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Pre-Marital Conversations – Episode 1

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Edris Khamissa

Channel: Edris Khamissa

Series:

Episode Notes

Crisis in Marriage
Preparing our children for marriage and NOT for the Wedding

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Assalamu alikum the capacity people had to adapt to the institution of marriage was a reality. this day and age things are so different in this recording Idris camisa, a marriage counselor, she has both his experience and insights on marriage and more specifically, why premarital conversations are a must premarital preparation and conversations.

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It is why have we chosen this topic shamima Look around you.

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Any person

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that is observant, any individual, no matter which home you come from, you can cite innumerable examples of marriages not working out. And we have a crisis. I sometimes say that often you have more divorces, then of Nicolas

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Nicolas was the time of celebration.

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I remember speaking to an elderly lady, at 90 years old, and she says to me, you must not think that when your children are married, then you feel your responsibilities over. Often the challenges are greater after they marry. So we have a situation a crisis is a global crisis. And there are any number of reasons for this. And the real thing is this. How do we stem the tide? Because you got to understand that when one marriage doesn't work out the impact on the hearts and minds when these families came together with love, anticipating joy, suddenly become enemies. And the friends on either side become enemies of the other, we hear one side of the story, and it goes on and on like

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that. And you find that it's getting worse by the day. And

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sadly, if you and I and the people are not going to do something about it, then we will have a real problem because I say I say this, right? That is reason why I want to embark on the recordings because it's much more liberating to bring couples together, go through a premarital conversation. And then they would realize if they are open and honest, you know what that particular issue, but where am I going to stay is very dear to me. And I'm not prepared to stay there, then you sell the person. You know what? I don't want to continue the relationship. No money is expended, yes, there is an emotional kind of withdrawal as it were, there'll be pain, but rather that happens then

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spending so much of money. In the wedding, people have made sacrifices to come to your wedding. And then a week later, sometimes a few months later, they say you know that wedding you went for? It's over. And I recall this, you know, there was once in one wedding I went for. And so we had photographs of the the couple. So the day I went to give the photographs, he told me you know what it reads, I separate it from that woman.

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This is the reality we are living in. And it's a costly reality. We need to do something about it. And I'm seeing this. Clearly, I'm not exaggerating it. There is a crisis. Today, a crisis that we need to recognize a crisis that requires a radical solution, because it is really a radical problem.

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Instead of preparing our children for the marriage, we prepare them for the wedding. A wedding is not a marriage. A wedding is only the beginning of an undertaking that may or may not someday develop into a marriage. What The couple have on the wedding day is not the key to a beautiful garden, but just a vacant lot and a few gardening tools. by David and vrms. There is so much of intent and purpose in organizing the wedding. This is indeed acceptable. Of course, it is a joyous occasion, family, friends, neighbors all in in their support. The atmosphere at home is frenzied and joyous. There is this anticipation of joy. The wedding itself makes for a really great conversation.

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However, not long afterwards. In many instances, the marriage is no more. Why. How can this be possible? What has gone wrong? Indeed, instead of preparing our children for them

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Marriage, we have prepared them for the beautiful wedding. The question is, How can parents prepare their children for marriage? Alhamdulillah? I think it's a very, very powerful, evocative preamble. And what we need to do, we need to ask ourselves exactly what is the issue? And you find you're asked me a question, How can parents prepare the child for marriage, there are many things they can do. The first thing is that they must live with intent and purpose. What do I mean by this? In other words, they should be acutely aware, they've got children around them. And they're going to make sure that the husband and wife are role models for the children, so that they are really promoting

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the sacred institution of marriage. And also, that on an ongoing basis, they need to talk to the children about marriage. So children do not have a pure romantic notion of marriage, they neither do they have a naive perspective of marriage, but rather a comprehensive picture of this beautiful institution.

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The other thing that seems to be missing, and this is a fundamental, it is an imperative, that parents themselves must be expressive and demonstrative of their own love. You got to understand, when children grow up in an environment where love has not been expressed, they themselves will not know how to express that love. And in my experience, as a counselor, many couples come to me and complain, you know, I don't know if my wife loves me. I don't know if my husband loves me. I said, How did you come to that conclusion? Or rather, why that doubt, they said, you know, what, they have never ever expressed the love for me. The other important thing that we could talk about that,

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remember, you know, what, it's a beautiful metaphor that we are reminded about, that the couples are governments, and to each other, is such a powerful metaphor. We need to explain that metaphor to our children. In fact, we need to live that example. And no, I recall, one of my nieces one day said to me, she says, you know, Uncle Idris, you know, if I marry a person who has the attributes of my father, then I would be in heaven. Now look at what a beautiful combination of our own father so powerful, how many of your kids will say that about you only, God knows. The next important aspect is we need to consider the implications of tranquility, love and mercy, this part of what marriage

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is all about? What does it mean? And how does it translate? How can it just happen? What should the couples do consciously, inshallah, so they could do that. The other thing that is so fundamental, so fundamental, is to teach the children about relationship dynamics, very important to understand what it means how to deal with other people, how to ensure that we do not hurt others, and how to ensure that we ourselves are very, very positive when you interact with others.

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The other few points that I want to mention very quickly, I know you are eager to ask questions, yeah, is to create a real life scenarios for the purpose of discussion with your children to ask the question, for example, if on a particular day, this is an issue that you have, how would you deal with it. And that's important because you'll find that many a couple whose marriages have broken off, or when they've been divorced, they say, it's a pity, I did not know how to deal with conflict, I did not have the mechanics as it were.

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Also, we should look at some good examples of happy marriages. And we should share that with them. And also share example, the marriage did not work out and why you think it did not work out.

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And this to me, is something I've been asking our own scholars to really sanction this. The idea is to make ensure that children attend pre medical classes. And last but not least, we must inspire in the children a profound love for the life of Nabi sallallahu sallam. Thank you just for that introduction. Now, there's a lot you said that parents need to do. You know, I know letting their marriage be an example to the children etc, etc. I think

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You shared with us 12 points, right? And listening to this. My first question is, do I have this discussion a month before the wedding six months before the wedding? Or is it an ongoing process, you know, if we can just get listeners to understand that, it's an ongoing thing you got to understand, long before children are able to speak, they observe. And remember that the father and mother are the first peers for the children. So they look at you and they absorb your experience, they absorb what is going on around them. For example, if a child is exposed to vulgarity at home, the child would think vulgarity is a norm, you would not know that it is the vulgarity that is being

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expressed. If a child grows up in a home, where the father and mother disagree, but they're not disagreeable. They do not, you know, strip each other of the dignity and respect the channel. Understand that if a child, for example, says or sees a father one day, and the father tells the wife, you know, darling, I'm very upset. He doesn't scream, so I'm very upset. Now, why is it that when you are angry, you have to shout it on every shout, you can tell a person calmly I'm angry, you understand. So the child will know how to also express the anger. And these are fundamental coming back to your question. It's an ongoing thing. But closer to adulthood closer to the time, then you

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have a much more focused discussions, in terms of relationships, in terms of marriage, in terms of responsibility. And of course, depending if just son or your daughter, that's important, but sadly, today, shamima in this is really a grave concern. Today, a father mother will tell the daughter, you know Fatima, if you're unhappy, remember, the doors are always open you and that's the message you should not give, although the child ought to know that, or to know that I've got an understanding father, that if I have a real problem, then he'll be receptive to me. But why are we saying that? Why are we expressing it? In that way? What happens? Then the couple say, you know what, I'll try it

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out, you know, son, marry me, like he said, but if I don't love, you say, don't worry. This is the attitude. And therefore, the stigma of divorces is gone out of the window. And therefore, I'm not surprised. You hear of more divorces than marriages, what you're saying is so true, just because if a parent says to the child, you know, this is what happens when you're going to get married, the negotiations that have to happen and how you interact with the spouse and relationship management and all of that. But no way, should a parent be saying to you, if you don't like him come back home, as you think it should be an underlining thought that if there's a problem, come and we talk about

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it, don't give them a way out, because I just find that youth today want a way out of something that's just not going the way for the moment? Why don't they suffer the rough waters? Now, how can we get our children to understand that they will be rough waters, and you've got to suffer those rough waters, because at some point, I therefore through discussions, they will realize that marriage itself, you'll have your ups and downs, they be moments of sadness, moments of disappointment, that's part of life as part of who we are, we are human, and we are going to make mistakes. And I recall, also, I mean, in terms of what you spoke earlier on, I remember, there was a

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young couple, and the boy said, you know, please, you know, speak to the girl's parents. And you know, I love her, I want to marry her. And I knew both the families, I thought I knew the families, if you know what I mean. And they married and after a few months, I get a call from the mother, that this guy just left it doesn't have anything to do with it. So when I spoke to the Father, and so I told the Father What is happening to the Father even phoned me up. So the father tells me, you know what, brother Idris, I said to my son, or whatever decision he makes out support him. I says, No, you can't say that doesn't work doesn't work like that. And that's a point. You see, one of the

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points that we need to also discuss is the fact that even if your doctor tells you this is happening in the home, she's giving you her perspective. She's not lying about it. And it's important to listen to the other perspective. Listen from the boys perspective, because I know in my counseling, for example, when I meet with individuals that will say, I meet with person x, I listened to them

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I said, Wow, what she's going through what a terrible husband, she's got, you know what I'm saying to you. But when I meet the husband, I say, Whoa, she's much more diabolical than him, you understand. So it's about a perspectives. In life. We don't do this in life. We don't, for example, go to work and say, Oh, you know what, I had an issue with someone, I'm not going to work anymore. And this is a whole issue, I think we have created the culture of instant gratification of a chain. And as a result, our children do not know how to persevere. I think it's about keeping the conversation open. Because what I find works is that you discuss scenarios, but when the opportunity

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arises, so when you find some sort of opportunity, whether it's in the media, whether it's among friends and incident that happened with it's among family, you have an opportunity, then to make that a teachable moment. And I think as parents, we've forgotten how to find these teachable moments, to advise the children, because every time you are interacting with your children, every time you're advising them, it's a lifelong lesson. So let's just say there's somebody that's planned a big wedding and your child only 15 years old.

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This conversations you can have, you know, you can talk about this beautiful wedding that's happening, but also talk about the two families and ask your child, how do you think they have discussed about? Where are they going to stay? How are they going to be living together in the same home, as your child, you think those things are important? Because already, firstly, you becoming your child's friend, you keeping that door open for talking, so that when your child's son or daughter is in that situation, it's you're not going to say to them, Oh, don't worry, whatever happens, you just come. And we'll sort it out. Because, as you saying, this, the two sides to the

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story, you know what shamima, there is another perspective to what you're also saying, sometimes it happens, that is say the mother and father are not going through the best relationship. And the mother is very disenchanted with marriage and with the husband, and her daughter is getting married. So she'll tell her daughter, remember, when you go to the house, you put your foot down. Why? Because she doesn't want the daughter to go through what she's gone through. But she's not dealing with a husband type, that person may be completely different. He may be a loving person, a beautiful individual. And I know a lot of sisters often do this. They said, you know, you saw how daddy treats

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me, you. And big mistake I made I said nothing at the very beginning, you put your foot down. At the very beginning, you sign this contract that contract, you do all of that, then there is a degree of aggression and assertiveness and it will not fit in. I'm not saying sisters, you must not be assertive, it's a quality, all of us should have assertiveness, but you must not for example, assume that what your mommy's gone through you'll go through the same thing because they are good people also on this earth, you know, okay, following up on the quality that you said we you know, a person should have.

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What should parents do, right from the beginning to help the children get into social environments, from the time they start their schooling day in a social environment where they're interacting with other peers, then they move on to senior school, they begin interacting with peers, then they interacting with family members, be the adults be the cousins. How can parents develop in the children certain qualities and skills, firstly, Tommy some skills that appearance should develop in their children. And give me for each one how a parent can instill that in their child, and be one of the things that I learned a few months ago, it was very, very powerful. I learned that what women

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want is love. And what men want is respect.

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And that's important. woman wants her husband to direct all the attentions to her. But the husband

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gets very excited and happy. When he's treated with respect. His authority is not diminished in the public arena, where for example, the wife shows a lot of affection for the boy's family. She finds a lot of affection for the boy's family, and she gives them respect across them the hospitality. We need to understand that. So the first quality that I would say is the issue of respect. It's about you know, you treat another person according to the person dignity, you are never abusive, respect that person. Second thing, trust is the foundation of every marriage. How to develop the trust how to be worthy of that.

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Trust. One of the things that is often rarely a great concern is the sharing of household chores. And one of my regrets has been rarely and I say it with all the love my beloved mother and father, may Allah grant him the highest status in general, is that you know about creating enough love for household chores. I know in my wife often tells me hard work didn't kill anyone. I said to her Darling, I don't be the first casualty. Right? So household chores, sharing all that, especially today in nuclear families is important. And that's prophetic. Anyway, I want to be sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is to help with household chores. The next point that I want to speak about is the whole

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idea of appreciation and gratitude.

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I remember some years ago when I went for ombre, and in Medina, I met a old friend of mine, we are studying some years ago, and I had no idea his first wife passed away, and he was here with his second wife. And because he knows the nature of work I'm doing, he said to me, three sides. One big regret, he says what he said, Never ever showed appreciation or thank my wife for who she was. And he was quite emotional about it. So appreciation and gratitude is important. And what it also does, you see a shamima, if you begin to acknowledge the wonderful things that your spouse is doing, and when you get into a difference into a disagreement, that disagreement, doesn't draw off into

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insignificance, the other wonderful things that are happening at home. The other aspect is way, you for example, you know, listen, with empathy, it's important. And also, you know, and how do you listen to empathy, when you look at your wife, with the eye of love, we look at her with the eye of love. And she knows, you know, he's listening. So it's important that the parent here can listen, when the little five year old has some grave concern. Parent listens, takes it seriously acknowledges that it's a concern for the child, you developing that skill in the child, am I right? Absolutely. And that is fundamental. The other aspect is the whole issue of negotiation. You know,

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often what happens when you get into discussion is always like, It's me, myself, What am I going to gain? It's about both of you winning, it's about looking at this situation, and looking at say to yourself, how do we discuss it now negotiation means that you have wisdom, you have a lot of the ability to have a conversation that you did not become personally not become hurtful. The seven point This, to me is so fundamental. And we need to focus a bit A little later on the whole issue of emotional intelligence. And that is being smart about your emotions. And you know what one of the wonderful qualities of a person who has a high EQ, if he and his wife are going through a situation,

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they will not go through what you call an emotional meltdown, they will be able to isolate the issue and pick themselves up. Otherwise, you go into emotional meltdown, because they recognize that's an issue. But there are many wonderful things that are happening in the marriage, we would focus a great deal more I know you told me you would ask me lots of questions on that. And therefore I am so excited. The other aspect is the issue of self esteem. Now, if you do not love yourself, you know you got to really shamima developing your healthy self esteem. They realize they are unique creation of Allah. Therefore the way you make fun of the mirror, he Allah, He made me beautiful outside also

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make me beautiful, inside. Can I stop you right there? I'm adding on to the self esteem. If you can give me an example. Or scenario in a home. What a parent can do to develop the child's self esteem, just random scenario, I'll give you five things they can do. Okay, right. The one is that the point that you raised earlier on, when your child speaks to you, you listen with the eye of love, what he does to a child, it affirms the child, what they have to say is important. Secondly, you hug your child, the child feels loved by you. The third thing is this. You do not give your children negative attributes. You do not say to your children, you are stupid, you are silly. That negative talk will

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lead to a child's negative self talk.

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The other very important thing is this, that you spend quality time with your children. have convinced

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Have them play with them. You understand how they feel, because it's important when children feel accepted by their own parents. without reservations, it makes a huge, huge difference. And the last point, which to me is also very, very fundamental. Is this, when you yourself as a father, show love to the mother, or vice versa, the child feels inanimate, it feels a sense of belonging in the home. Otherwise many a child goes to bed crying is a Yala. Why was I born in this home? They have a victim mentality other way. Now, you said spend quality time with your children. I know many parents is gonna say to you, I'm at home all day with the children. So what do you mean, my child's still

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acting up? I still have this problem whereby Charles

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school has called me in and said there's the statue The other problem. And I think some of us as parents are losing the meaning of quality time. Because if you're gonna say to me, it's been quality. While I'm all day with them. What do you What more do you want? You know, it reminds me of history. I like stories. I know you like it, and I'm excellent recon tear you down.

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There is a son

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who said he was asked this question.

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How did you spend the weekend,

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spent the weekend my father. And the person said, Oh,

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you're blessed, your father is blessed.

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Then the father was spoken to.

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You must have been excited that your son was at home.

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He says value as a term. But he never spoke to me.

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He was busy with this phone

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is the difference. I saw a clip yesterday. It was conveyed to me. I didn't see it. But I understand the essence.

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The teacher was engaging culture in the school.

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And one of them was not participating.

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And the teacher asked what would you like to be select to be a phone, a smartphone, a number, a smartphone, so emotional. He said Why? He says because my father spends all his time on the smartphone, and he found the smartphone, you'll be spending time with me at the moment is too busy, even sleep so that my mother is similar thing. You know, so what I'm saying children observe, and we're gonna regret it, you know. So therefore, one of the other points that we need to speak about that you need to be very, very self disciplined when it comes to the use of social media fundamentals. So quality time means spending time with the child, doing something with them. They

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say a family that eats together, plays together, prays together, stays together. Okay, carry on rageous you were busy giving me the skills that the parents can develop in their child's self esteem, then there must be the whole issue of forgiveness, you know, you got to forgive. You got to learn to forgive. You know how hypocritical via that when you lift our hands up, you see Allah forgive me. And if you could have prepared to forgive your own creation, you know, forgive, you know, if you are forgiving, you know, Allah has mercy will descend upon you. We are human, we are going to make mistakes. No one is perfect. Nobody's perfect. So forgiveness is very, very important.

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Because forgiveness is a precursor to consolidate your relationship, is it not? And that's such a easy one, because children will make mistakes. And you know, you obvious reasons sometimes have to reprimand them. But ultimately, you say, I now forgive you for the errant behavior or whatever you've done wrong. Absolutely. And when they see that, then they know and you know, in fact, when you forgive children, but they have to be consequences, absolutely. The child will never lie to the Father. And the father says on the mother did you do this? If he fears they're going to be repercussions, they're going to be harsh, draconian measures is gonna be punitive their child would

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lie, but my child knows his daddy, I did it. You appear to accept the consequence Absolutely. Now, and also you see what happens to me, you know, in marriage for example, couples, let us say, or the wife has done something wrong and the husband is upset. But he gets so upset that he becomes entrenched in his attitude. Then he becomes aggressive. They need

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perhaps he becomes violent. Then what happens? Then she has been moving

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sinned against than sinning. You know what I'm saying? In other words, what she did was wrong. But what he did was worse than that, suddenly you find they have a discussion about something else now, you know. So I think it's very important that we learn to forgive and understand we make mistakes. The other important thing, and to me, this is one of the most fundamental things is how mommy and daddy deal with conflict. How do they deal with situations is, do they get emotional about it? Did they get agitated about it, but they're able, you know, with reason, and with the

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calmness to deal with situations. And then in the end, what happens, they come through some kind of resolution. And that's a skill that we need to teach our children. The other point is the whole issue of optimism. You don't give up the bend in the road is not the end in the road. Because you've been through a situation, you don't lift up your hands, oh, on men, I beg you do, they told me you know, that kind of thing, you become emotional, right? You can be optimistic. The other three aspects very quickly, you got to be resilient. You cannot, for example, be a person in the slightest thing you get the most, you know, my

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morning

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told me, he loved me, mommy. Right. So we do not want to get also emotional, right? You got to be resilient, you gotta be strong. Of course, you got to be alert, conscious. And the last but not least, you gotta be patient, you must be patient.

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What about teaching children, the skill of finances, that everything is not always going to be rosy, because you as a parent are going to be giving your children and giving your children and they just know the whole concept of receiving, and they this beautiful wedding takes place. And then this poor young boy realizes he has to be taking care of somebody else. You know what, shamima, that's an excellent point that you raise. Because one of the four reasons, one of the four reasons for separation, university is finances. The whole issue about budgeting, the whole issue, sometimes what happens because there's a demand on a particular person's lifestyle, then you're living through your

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credit cards, you are, you know, buying fancy cars and all of that. But at night, you having sleepless days, not knowing how you're going to pay the monies that you're owing to the bank and wherever else. And when children learn to manage monies. You know, I know, for example,

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one couple that I met, he was telling you, and this husband was telling me, he says that, you know, once a week they go shopping. And what they do essentially, is the father would say okay, fine, we're going to the shopping complex, the toys are in this car, and we're giving you X amount of money. So you've got to decide how you're going to utilize that pot of money. And that so there wasn't any anarchie there, the boy knew exactly, there was a discussion before that. And so, budgeting, and that is fundamental, and especially at a time when there are so much of economic constraints, we got to live below your means and you know, perhaps, you know, within our means, now,

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I actually thought of that idea when you mentioned the last skill of patience, because the couple also needs to realize that they financial standard cannot be the same as it was in the parents house. So if they pay, they are patient, they can definitely get to that stage. Of course you got to start off, you know, humbly and then inshallah with Allah blessing, you can go from strength to strength. There are so many stories nowadays, with so many people will tell you that, you know, when you first started off, we barely had a piece of furniture at home. And today Alhamdulillah they lead a very comfortable life, and they enjoy it Alhamdulillah but also what happens is when the couple is

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discussing finances, and you know making ends meet and saying, okay, we're not going to buy the new sofa this month, we would rather spend it on the microwave.

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It's bringing them together and giving them a sense of closeness and a sense of achievement in the sense that this is something we've done. We've uplifted ourselves and come to this point. And therefore I mean, therefore, the discussion we're having is premarital conversation and preparation. That should be part of our discussion.

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For example, and that will indicate, you know, that will indicate whether I'll be happy to live in this house. Oh, and that's the decision you ought to make. It doesn't mean there's some chemistry, that chemistry would perhaps, you know, make everything so hunky dory. You know, you'd be flying in the air, and you're going there. dee da dee, the after the honeymoon was over, then the husband tells the wife, where are we going? He says, but to go home. He said, I did not know if you're going to stay here. I assume that we're going to university what I'm saying to you, and this can be very, very conflictual, you can create unnecessary issues.

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It is you've taught me so much in this 3035 minutes. And I think it is skills that our parents need. And I think it's skills that the parents need to develop in their children. And if they take cognizance of this, then the only benefit I can see is these conversations continuing into their marriages. And parents also developing themselves better as parents and being able to keep their conversations with their children and oh, we our topic is not on teenagers and all of that, but I can see it assisting even in that regard. So listeners here we are saying keep these conversations open and have these conversations pre marriage