The Deen Show – We Don’t Blame Christianity

The Deen Show
AI: Summary © The Bosnian- Defined movement has been a violent war for years, causing deaths and injuries, and the majority of the population being displaced. The war also affected nationalism within the community, causing nationalist fears and nationalist fears leading to nationalist fears and nationalist behavior. The history of Islam and its use in political parties and its impact on society have also been discussed.
AI: Transcript ©
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Angelina Jolie was brought to tears while talking to the * victims of the Bosnian War During her visit, disrobe beneath, read more, and I learned more and I was just so taken by

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how little I knew how little the world speaks about it and I felt compelled to, to put the story together and then with casting everybody from the area from all different sides of the conflict, who were all personally affected by the war, it was said education every day in humanity and in unity and, and also getting to know a culture. salaam aleikum greetings of peace. How are you guys doing now? You probably haven't heard these names. Mr. cottages Slobodan Milosevic, Ratko Mladic. We're going to give you a history lesson, a history lesson on one of the greatest if not the greatest genocide in modern times after world war two in Europe, they committed the worst single atrocity

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scene in Europe since the Second World War you probably haven't heard about now, what are all these have in common? They weren't practicing Orthodox Christians. But do we blame Christianity for these evil lunatics? No. So we have a lot to talk about on this week's episode with the former president of the Muslim Bosnian community of Chicago, Dr. Hashim kosovich.

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How are you? Fine, thank you. Now we wanted to recently there was the Don't forget or creating awareness of setup Anita, this is where almost 10,000 8000 plus innocent human beings were killed. and rightfully so people bring up in certain communities, certain evil, sad events that have happened in the essence. And we're going to do the same thing of creating awareness.

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Not forgetting something like this. So it doesn't we revisit this history, so people don't forget, so we can help God Willing prevent something tragic like this happening again. And you you recently, I mentioned that you were the former Bosnian Muslim Bosnian president of the community during a time when this evil was happening from what was in 1991 to 1995 while in Bosnia from 92, to end of 95. But it started in Croatia in 91. Yeah, so around that time. So those are the three points that we want people to walk away with creating awareness, understanding this is great. Being aware of this great genocide, many people don't know even know about it, right? And people, even Bosnians are

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forgetting about it. So not to stir up any hatred or animosity, but to really contrast it with with Islam. Also, to contrast it with, you know, current day events to point out the hypocrisy and a double standards that are hidden because I said, What do all these three, these are the key players, the former president of Serbia, you know, also the Serbian Republican, Bosnia was a

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rather long cottage, and they call them the butcher of Bosnia. And these people were just, you know,

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these people were in charge of that genocide. And they were Orthodox Christians, but we don't blame Christianity, do we? No, no. So tell us your part. At that time. It happened that I was the president of busing American cultural association in Northbrook, which is a suburb of Chicago. And as the violence started in Bosnia in April 92, we were involved in humanitarian help helping our people suffering people of Bosnia. So during that time, we sent 20 containers of humanitarian aid to Bosnia. We also

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initially I helped to resettle the refugees, they were coming from concentration camps from Bosnia and there were some like 14 concentration camps. In Bosnia, they were created by the extremist Serbs in Bosnia. And these people

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we help them to resettle here, we sponsor them and then brought their families here. And

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then we are We also worked with helping our wounded people to get medical care here in Chicago in Cleveland, and, and

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we sent

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financial help over there also to families. Yeah, it was just everyday, you know, working and working to help those people. Now this is clearly outlined as a genocide genocide took place in the heart of Europe in Bosnia Herzegovina in 1995. It was the worst atrocity on European soil.

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Well, they, I mean, there's no debate about this wasn't this was ethnic cleansing at the highest level. I mean, you had the top president Slobodan Milosevic involved in this. You had. And now now you had the other what tell us about another one college, the International arrest warrant issued for rat a van carriage to leader of Europe's most brutal experiment in racial purity since World War Two, the International War Crimes Tribunal has charged him with separate counts of genocide, crimes against humanity. Who was he? Rather than kind of just was the

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president of the so called the Republika Srpska in which it which is in Bosnia woods. Yeah. And then this slope and then the butcher, they come to butcher, the butcher that Slobodan Milosevic initially was the leader of the Serbs in Bosnia. Yeah, the extremist Serbs in Boston? Yeah. Okay. And I noticed you said extremists sir. Because this is not against the Serbian people or you know, Croatia or anybody I mean, because, you know, there there are we're looking at the individuals you know, same thing you have, you know, extremists in all different you know, religions and whatnot and like we started off this is not blaming Christianity, blaming the whole Serbian you know, community, but

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you have people like this who are obviously, you know, charged with crimes against humanity, who are responsible for killing are these numbers I heard is somewhere between 100,000 to 200,000. People who and innocent people who are killed to over 2 million people displaced I mean, innocent men, women and children. They had * camps, death camps, Serbs executed men, women, and children. The river became a mass grave. But 24 years on, the memory of horror is being deliberately erased.

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And nowhere is it more obvious than here. ramza Mu hitch was raped here at the villain of last hotel. other survivors say it was used as a * camp.

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ramza says she was attacked by Milan Lucas, a commander in the white Eagles militia, later jailed for mass murder. Bosnian Muslim men and boys are selected for murder, not only on account of their Muslim faith, but also because of their gender.

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The women suffered a different fate. cerebral pizza was the culmination of a brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing across Bosnia Herzegovina, in which 20 to 50,000 women and girls were victims of genocide or *.

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Yes, some estimates are over 200,000 people have been killed. And

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over 2.2 Some say or even over 2.6 million people are displaced refugees within the Bosnia and outside of Bosnia. Let's paint this picture now. So this war is happening but many people some key points is the war. It starts. So you have you are telling me that the Serbian army was the fourth third or fourth most powerful army in the world in the Europe which third now was the Bosnian army. Was there a Bosnian army Well, well, it was not Serbian army. It was the Yugoslavian army. Okay. Okay. But then later on when the conflict started in Croatia and Bosnia, it turned into a Serbs controlled army. So I became Serbs army, okay, because 70% of the generals in the Yugoslavian army

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you know, Officer generals were Serbs. So they took control of the army and wasin did not have the army. The Bosnian the Yugoslavian army was the army of all people in Yugoslavia and bossing people never thought that Yugoslavian army will commit these crimes that they did. They believed in their army and they supported the army and people served in the in the army and they were proud to serve the army. So they never taught never imagined that this army will commit the crimes that this army did. Yeah. So they had no weapons to defend yourself. That's your God, you're right to defend yourself so you couldn't even defend yourself what what some, some weapons were available locally.

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But then the Yugoslavian Yugoslavian government was very

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wise. And, you know, within the last year before conflict broke in, in Bosnia, they took around and they took all the weapons from our, from our people that they had, you know,

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so they basically ended up with no weapons, except some hunting guns and some little pistols and things like that, you know, that's how they started. Yeah, and started building army, within the neighbors, you know, within within the neighborhoods. So this for this president and then the president from within and then this top General, obviously, these were people who wanted to exterminate

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Muslims, they were racist. I heard that there was the nationalism. They were really pushing this, this nationalism songs are being song, you know, and just pumping the people up kind of contrast that like today we see we see some of that, you know, this nationalism like, you know, creating the other what do you do? Well, you see, back in 1987 Slobodan Milosevic was addressing the Serbian communist Congress. And at that time he, he expressed,

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he was saying that the Serbia is not getting enough from the Yugoslavian Federation. Well, you know, they deserve more. And then he also said that syrups should live arlena in a one big powerful country called greater Serbia. So there was most of the most of the people living in, in in that,

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in Serbia, at that time were Serbs, ethnic Serbs, and but also there were some ethnic Serbs. They were living as a minority in Croatia and Bosnia. And, and some of these were extremists, you know, they were blinded by the Serbian nationality. And they

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accepted this with enthusiasm, you know, and that's how things things started. He woke the

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nationalism within

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these extremists. Yeah. And that's what we see. And another thing he said, Whatever, whatever I saw their model is, whatever Serbs live that Serbia. Yeah, that's what what these

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you know, Serbian nationalists are believing in? Uh huh. What was that kind of you see that white supremacy kind of, you know, what we see somewhat today. But this is another form of that, that racism that this is what now let's contrast that to Islam. When you look at, you know, the original sin, what we see was that,

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arrogance, the the original sin of the devil shaden, when you see like,

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when out of respect, when God had ordered at Shakedown to bow down, he said, I'm better than him, you know, there's racism. And that's the root of all evil. So we can see that here happening, taking it to an extremist extent where ours is better than yours and fighting this, you know, we're probably Muhammad said, This thinks this this nationalism, right, and this extreme version of it, that actually led them to go ahead and commit this genocide to want to wipe the whole Muslim bosnia community off the map.

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Right. They were not concerned about democracy, they were planning.

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Slobodan Milosevic, the former president of Serbia,

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he together with the top military, leaders of Yugoslavia and army they were they made plans and they organized

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this genocide in Bosnia. And the main thing was to eliminate Muslims from certain air from certain areas in Bosnia, especially in eastern Bosnia, and

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along the western part of the Rena river, and that's where Serbian so I was on the throbber inside and then set garage there, and Sherpa and they were called safe zones of United Nations. And but Serbia, they, they wanted to take over and occupy all those three safe zones of United Nations.

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that was their strategy to, to,

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to make it part of Serbia.

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We're gonna go and take a break, and even and we'll get into that next even in the safe zone. This is that what recently we had the event with, what was it? Never forget? So benissa? Is that what it is we're over 1000 people died, and they were supposed to be safe by the peacekeepers, the UN was there, but right on the day, watch. All these 8000 plus innocent human beings were systematically massacred, is that right? Yes, we're gonna continue from there. And revisiting this, we can learn from it. And hopefully to prevent something evil like this from happening again. Don't go anywhere right back. They took 248 UN peacekeepers hostage. And in July that year, they committed the worst

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single atrocity scene in Europe since the Second World War. They overran the small Muslim town of Srebrenica, which had been designated a un safe area and they went on an orgy of mass executions. There was an assault on garage day there was assault on jeptha and there was this terrible assault on sarebbero needs up to this day. You know, the numbers are stunning.

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I agree 8000 or so Muslim men and boys slaughtered just because they were Muslim.

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Back here on the deen show, okay, so we covered you have nationalism, okay? You're I'm an American, I'm Bosnian, I love my country, I love my background, also, my parents are from Bosnia. And I thought this is something important because other communities, as I mentioned, they bring up, you know, certain events that have happened to them and the essence of preventing something evil like that happening to them again, and not to stir up any hate or animosity because you have, you know, people from Serbia from Croatia from from these wachler really good, you know, really good people. And but then you have extremists, extremists, radicals in every, you know, community. And then we

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brought up the point that these were Orthodox Christians, and the Orthodox Church actually is on record saying that, you know, praising the Radovan cottage as one of the most prominent sons of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Greek Orthodox Church described him as, quote, one of the most prominent sons of our Lord Jesus Christ working for peace, but you never really hear Do You Have you heard you don't hear much connection back

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in the media, or through any of the news reports, saying that these were radical Christians, it's kind of like what you do as soon as someone's a Muslim you know, Islam is on the witness stand. You know, it's it's a it's it's a showcase like this is Islam, motivating them and whatnot, but you don't have you heard that ever? The contrast being made that I never heard of

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Christian terrorists.

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It is usually Islamic or Muslim terrorists. And

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first of all, there is no Islamic terrorism or Islamic terrorist because Islam does not teach terrorism, it teaches peace and coexistence and tolerance. So, you know, or how about when you hear this radical Islam? What do you say, as a radical Islam?

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Because obviously, if we're gonna play that game, they were practicing a form of radical Christianity, but we don't blame Christianity, right? This is radical, because you have footage right now people are seeing, you know, they're in the church, right? You know, with the pope with the pre sitting and this is like a crusade. This is like almost one can say this is a modern day holy, what people they will say there's no such thing as a holy war. But to these people, this was a holy war to exterminate Muslims. Well, if Christians are true Christians, they would follow the message of Jesus Christ. And he was teaching peace and love, you know, but these extremists the, you

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know, in Bosnia, they were doing opposite of what Jesus was teaching so they were not they were not really Christians because they were not following the Christian message, which is peace and love. loving your neighbor. Yes, yes. You know, mass killing. Wow, what was Jesus teaching you know, when you slap him in the face, he turned the other side to slap him again. But these people know man they they were being unprovoked and they were doing you know, crimes and trying to eliminate Muslims from

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from most of the parts of the boss. Now do you have like the the cert because we see it's very sad and unfortunate that you have you know, you have whole stadiums of

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people when recently not too long ago, rather than kind of itching somebody I think got 40 years I was you got for you, but he got convicted for for crimes against humanity for genocide, guilty of the following counts. Count to genocide.

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count three, persecution, a crime against humanity.

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count for guilty on 10 out of 11 cars, a litany of cruelty, murder, a crime against humanity. Here he was today inscrutable, but guilty of atrocities committed in a war that cost over 100,000 lives, created millions of refugees and became the darkest chapter of post war European history. And

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you see you You see people held them as icons

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misurata Kumar, Junichi Cooperman

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Ratko Mladic chord Europe's biggest killer since Adolphe Hitler in 1995. In Eastern Bosnia, Serbs are fighting Muslims.

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Don't worry manage tells this boy will look after you live. Within hours as furniture massacre began around 8000 Muslims murdered

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at the same time lavage led the four year seizures.

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The longest siege in modern history. 10,000 died from serb shells and snipers, the International Court of Justice in date of marriage for genocide and crimes against humanity could not find him.

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At first he hidden in plain sight, attending weddings, soccer matches, visiting restaurants, and then a $20 million bounty on his head. He disappeared until today today we arrested rock for manage the whole stadiums you know they will be chanting their names that's the scary part. But have you had Have you had dialogue with some some Serbians or people from this area? Who have who have come because if someone does something to name Islam will be like hold on that he doesn't represent Islam these people don't people who do such evil acts who are doing opposite to Islam will be the first to condemn we become almost professional condemned, right? But have you have them come up and condemn

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these acts these this genocide which like we said is the biggest genocide since World War Two after world war two some of my own patients condemned these things. Orthodox Christians from former Yugoslavia nice a condemned these things. And also

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we need to also

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this, there was a whole brigade in in a bus in army that was formed in during during those three years of work three and a half years. There was called

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slob da provice law, which means it was it was it contained all the Orthodox Christians. Yeah, we're fighting in defense of Bosnia. Oh, okay. The whole whole brigade. So they weren't with the radicals, these radicals they, they, they were defending Boston and and they were not extremist. You see. Okay, so you had good you had these good Serbians who are stepping up fighting along with the Muslim Bosnians against the evil that was being perpetuated against them. And there were some also that I know

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from a little town that I came from Eastern bosnia there were they were running away from Bosnia into into Montenegro to hide so that they don't go into service extremist army. Yeah, they didn't want to fight against their name Muslim neighbors and and hurt them. And you know, so there are people like that. And that upsets me when when sometimes even you know, some Bosnians will try to blanket statement and have that hate and Islam doesn't teach us that against all Serbia. Islam doesn't teach us that. I I had instances where patients walk into my office and you know, a while waiting in the waiting room, there was sometimes say all subs are saying so I had to stop and right

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there. I said, Look, wait, you are wrong. It's not true. You cannot make judgment and judge the whole group? Because I know definitely there are some good

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you know, syrups, and they were even in the Bosnian army fighting against this aggressor, you know, and against these crimes against the invasion of Bosnia. So you cannot do that. Don't Don't say that. I also have some patients that don't agree with you. And and and are not extremists. So, you know, in every in every group of people, you have a good and you have a bad and

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but in Bosnia, the sad thing that most of the Orthodox Serbs were following their nationalism and their national leaders blindly without questioning them without

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you know.

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That's what you supposing there are

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wrong ideas. Yeah. So that's why Wow, that's how it shows and illustrates how important is have good leaders, what would impact you know, a leader, and what does nationalism and I heard the songs and pumping people up? And we see that with the politics here today, contrasting it, you know, feeding creating this manufactured fear, right? And this manufactured hate, like Hollywood often say, That's manufactured there's a legitimate fear, you fear, you know, some thunder, you hear but then you go to the movies that's manufactured as Hollywood. So creating it, like Muslims are terrorists. They're here to you know, Sharia, you hear all this nonsense, right? And now you use you scare to your

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neighbor and you see that

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And then and then the guns start coming out and you start looking at these people is less human. And then you have a genocide happening, right? Most people that do those things, actually they are ignorant about the subject they talking about. And they are also arrogant, you know, and

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but in this case with Kara, she was an educated psychiatrist, but, you know, it seems like he needed some help. And he was a psychiatrist, a doctor, I suppose. He was, he was, he was

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his college education. He was going to Sarajevo. He got educated there, he lived there. And

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instead of taking care of that city, he was shelling it, you know? Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, what kind of mind is that? I mean, a criminal mind? Well, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with more revisiting history so we can God Willing prevent something, a travesty like this one of the great the greatest genocide to happen after world war two on on European soil that you probably didn't know about. We're visiting it, educating you on this lost history, almost forgotten. Don't go anywhere. Let's not forget that this was a slaughter of civilians, not a traditional army against army It was a completely unlevel playing field, right down to the fact that they were

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perched on the mountains surrounding Sarajevo. And the civilians were in all these Valley towns and cities who were being sniped who were being shelled and breadlines, waterlines, you know, crossing the road children, even women, old men.

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Back here on the Dean's show. All right, so let's paint a picture saatavilla sieged you got snipers, there's like mountains around and people going to get some bread.

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Get some food because it was a scarcity. Right. And you had events is that true that these snipers are ordered to just shoot innocent civilians.

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Methods included the bombing of civilians first in the capital, Sarajevo, and then in dozens of other places.

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For the next three and a half years, the world would watch the siege and bombardment of Sarajevo massacres in marketplaces, sniper and mortar attacks on civilians and concentration camps filled with Muslims. The goal was to carve out an ethnically pure serb statelet. Yes, yes. Can you can you elaborate on that? Well

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for example, people were standing people were at at

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at the market you know, buying and selling things and there will be at one time they show the market and a lot of people got killed there are a lot of people wounded you know and but then they say you know this this serb leader say no those those were Muslims that were selling their own people to evoke

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sympathy from from the from the you know, on the world communion world community so that they will turn against the Serbs I mean, that's that's complete disinformation. Yeah.

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And then another instance in toto they also the same thing like that they, you know, they were shelling people

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in you know, I was studying the groups and kill and maim many people, you know, yeah. Another interesting thing is you're going to die and people are staying in a breadline. You know, and they will they'll they will show and you know,

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and won't many people like to kill on wall and many people like that. So, another interesting thing is, I mean, it's a god given right, that you have

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to defend yourself, your home your family. And is it true that there was a

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Who was it that suggested or actually

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brought up the idea that it passed into the arms embargo was this from the army How did that come about? Well, that that meaning that the boss the Muslims, the Bosnian Muslim Bosnia's they weren't even allowed to have this God given right to defend themselves with arms. The UN had banned arms sales to the region to reduce the violence. This left the Muslims practically defenseless against them served well. When Croatia and Slovenia declared independence on June 25 1991. The slogging army moved in,

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in Slovenia and and was fighting there for a couple of weeks and then moved out into Croatia and

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the slaughter of innocent

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karats, who were Catholic Christians started there. And according to some estimates over, you know, it was in 10 1000s, that of those people were killed in a in a in the next in the next year. And then the United Nations under the pretext of preventing escalation of the war in their region. They evoked arms embargo on September 26 1991. But that did a great injustice to Croatians because they didn't have army and they were just forming the army and trying to defend themselves against the Yugoslav army there was, you know, arm to their teeth, you know. And then, after about 10 months, so in April 92, the bosnia had a referendum and they approved the

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two to

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become independent,

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independent, Republican, independent country, and people that came out to vote is like, 90, over 90% of people voted for the independence of Bosnia. But some of the ethnic Serbs didn't like that and started, you know,

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creating violence in Bosnia. And after about 10 months, there was a peace agreement in Croatia. And that peace agreement stipulated that

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now Yugoslav Yugoslavian army now serves army to move either to Serbia or Bosnia and and the United Nations did not disarm the Serb army, allow them to move with a heavy weapons into back into Boston, they chose to move to Bosnia. So you see, the United Nations, you know, they should actually disarm the Serb army right there. And if they did, these atrocities would be preventable in Bosnia. But then, when when the war shifted into Bosnia, they applied the arms embargo on bosnia to even though it was a United Nations recognized bosnia as independent, but they apply the arms embargo and Bosnia, people who were armless and couldn't defend themselves had no army. I mean, what are

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hypocrisy? You know, and

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50 members of the Security Council that voted for their arms embargo, I'm sorry to say, but even our own country, United States voted for arms embargo and never voted to, to get rid of it. You know, so all the things that happened in Bosnia, all those countries that voted for arms embargo, they are also indirectly responsible for all the war crimes in Croatia and Bosnia. So it's kind of like okay, we're not going to come to help, you know, stop this genocide. But we're not even going to tie your hands and not let you defend yourself. Yeah, and and, and, and sad but true, who why this arms embargo was

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established. The Yugoslavian army officers asked the United Nations to to make arms embargo on former Yugoslavia because it you know, they had arms they need no arms you could sign army head arms up to their to their third strongest army in the world, third strongest army in the Europe and fifth strongest in the world at that time, so they didn't need the arms. And, and, you know,

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to have arms embargo there is basically to prevent the people, the victims who they victimize to prevent those victims to defend themselves against the aggressor. Okay, tell us this now you're expecting the UN the peacekeepers there they're also armed right.

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there they're supposed to you feel kind of safe, right? You feel like okay, I guess this town several needs, I suppose to be controlled by the UN. And what happens there I heard Okay, so they ended up getting massacred right under the nose of the UN. While the world called the destruction of Muslim communities, ethnic cleansing. Richard Holbrooke called it genocide. Bosnian Muslims endure 15 more months of heartbreak and slaughter, the UN established what it called safe areas, but without enough force to make them safe. 1000s of Muslims sought refuge in Srebrenica

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and in July 1995, the Serbs overran the small un force there. And they captured the town instead of an ISA over 8000 innocent people described us what happened. That was what the

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wanted to.

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They were asking for 6000 Oprah for forces Oprah for support.

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supposed to be like a peacekeeping forces in Bosnia, and they asked for 6000 men, but they only got 450,000. And for 450 soldiers in there, and no country wanted to risk their soldiers, but, you know, Holland, Dutch government, they accepted their responsibility and

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they put 450 of their soldiers in there with a light

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you know, lightly armed with no heavy real heavy artillery, okay. And those zones were called safe zones and

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there was not supposed to be shelling from outside into those zones. But the shelling the SERPs continued to show us reverence and other so called safe zones like our Sherpa and others that they continue to shell and and to destroy civilian objects, homes. buildings, religious

00:36:02 --> 00:36:10

you know, structures, Serbs attack parts of the capitals, Sarajevo, to force the Muslims out. They destroyed mosques.

00:36:11 --> 00:36:13

They burn books.

00:36:14 --> 00:36:23

And they systematically raped Muslim women and girls and to kill innocent civilians and to

00:36:24 --> 00:36:24

to create

00:36:26 --> 00:36:49

terrible living conditions for those people within. Yeah, no lack of food, lack of heating, lack of electricity, lack of everything, you know, Srebrenica was concentration camp in as a safe zone under the protection of United Nations. There were concentration camps, they were not protected. You know?

00:36:51 --> 00:37:01

It was just a concentration camp. What if someone says okay, this is war, you know, when you when you talk about they actually had * camps. other survivors say it was used as a * camp.

00:37:02 --> 00:37:16

We know that women were selected for an unimaginable campaign of sexual violence, slavery and forced impregnation. The exact figures are not known, because shame and stigma, prevent many from speaking out.

00:37:17 --> 00:37:44

They had people in concentration camps who are being beaten, starved, tortured. If someone says this is this is just the consequence of war, right? They were doing the Bosnian Muslims are doing the same thing. Have you heard? Have you heard this argument? Yes. And what would you say the aggressor is trying to equalize victims with the aggressors, which is totally, that's this information that they are spreading around.

00:37:46 --> 00:38:34

bossiness did not go and attack Serbia, or Montenegro. bosnia was attacked by the Yugoslavian army, and the extremist Serbs who were called chetniks. And they were killing everybody that was not okay, including Serbs, those who are not extremists and we're defending Bosnia, and we're fighting against that they weren't a site it seems like it's kind of like the the Christian Crusaders way back when who did who work who would even kill Christians who weren't practicing their form of Christianity. This is basically modern crusade. Yeah, but you don't hear that mention again. Again, again, I just want to stress the point that we don't blame Christianity and pointing out the hypocrisy and double

00:38:34 --> 00:39:16

standard because people expect Muslims to be professional condemned for everything so also we should be fair and balanced right? And call out certain things and be just unfair and analyzing these things and we know that this does not apply to Christianity No, but you have radical elements also from among some some Muslims right but you don't you can't blame Islam. Let's go and contrast that with what we believe is the last and final message to the man kind of problem Muhammad peace be upon them the rules of engagement in combat. When when there was a there are so many situations but it just outlines the mercy even you know, in combat where you're not allowed to kill innocent men,

00:39:16 --> 00:39:59

women children, Mohammed saw a woman who had had been killed he was angry, you know, let alone of * camps this this is be the first thing you know on a day of judgment. If someone killed innocent blood a Muslim is scared to have any innocent blood be it from assertiveness and serve us innocent crush anybody you know who's innocent and these things different when someone's pointing the gun at you coming with a machete at gun and I've ever right that's you're in combat, but now * women, sniper, you know shooting people in the bread market. Does Islam give justification to this because it's more No, no it there's no justification to kill innocent people. That doesn't matter.

00:40:00 --> 00:40:02

They are Muslims are not Muslims because Islam

00:40:03 --> 00:40:21

teaches you know, it's right in Quran you know, a large osano says that if you kill one innocent human being he does not say one innocent Muslim it says one innocent human being, it is like a killing the whole world. Yes, you know, so

00:40:25 --> 00:41:05

these rules of a game that's that's the thing that's incredible like the the Prophet, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him who's a brother to Jesus Moses, Abraham, they all brought the same message worship the Creator, not the creation, you know, this is the same the Creator who created us all and called us you know to be good to our neighbors and I think do we take some responsibility here that we also went away from calling people to, to educating people on Islam educating people doing the Dharma, you follow me? How much it kind of itself, you know, anodization on us as Muslims some accountability, right? Is there anything again, you can't now blame? blame yourself for this

00:41:05 --> 00:41:35

person killing and maiming you? But what would you say? For for to prevent something like this happening again? for external right for the world to know, but then internal? What's our duty, you know, for for Bosnians for Muslims, you know, educating you know, humanity what, you know, caught doing more doubt, what would you say is the educate the future generations about the truth that happened. And we should also

00:41:36 --> 00:41:42

educate our future generations not to be naive, but to be alert and to be prepared

00:41:43 --> 00:42:06

for things like this in a future, okay, because people in Bosnia were not prepared. They were mostly naive people. Even during those 10 months of war raging in Croatia, the Bosnian leadership was naive and made a big mistake with the current president.

00:42:07 --> 00:42:43

At that time, they made a mistake of not preparing for the war in case it moves in Bosnia, and arming them arming their people because the Bosnian leadership was saying it's not many times they repeated this, it is not our war, it is war between Croatia and Serbia, you know, which is very naive man, you know, your neighbor is, you know, being attacked in Croatia and being killed and slaughtered and raped and and and you are saying it's a war between them as it were between them and not you? Hey, that has a potential to

00:42:44 --> 00:42:57

come over into Bosnia. What are you doing about about it? Are you preparing yourself? To defend yourself? You have a right to defend yourself. So get armed, you had a 10 months? Yeah, they didn't do nothing.

00:42:59 --> 00:43:43

I want to go I want to go back just briefly. We're almost out of time. A few more points. But when I was saying like Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, where he clearly said, there's no killing of innocent men, women, children, monks, people, priests, people, I'm sorry, people in places of worship, tearing down places of worship or destruction of property. Yeah. And I trees. Yeah. No, it's it's amazing. You see, you see these things clearly outlined. And then on the other side, you see some of the most horrific evil happening. And it saddens the heart, you know, that these things have happened. And again, I reiterate, this is not to stir up, you know, because many

00:43:43 --> 00:44:27

people they'll take this, these incidents and try to, you know, use this as fuel and fire to create animosity. Is that what? Yeah, some people benefit from that. It could be economically it could be, you know, position wise to keep their, you know, power and all that. So, people will do things like that, you know, but that's not our intention here today. This is clearly not our intention. It's, like I said, is to revisit to create awareness. And you were you got inspired there was a there was any mom who actually because the sort of a niece or the the anniversary was like a few weeks ago, right? Yes. And there was a there was any mom, a local a mom, who was talking about this kind of

00:44:27 --> 00:44:32

touched you can you can you can you talk about the points that he had mentioned. You see, dude,

00:44:33 --> 00:44:37

July 11 is the date that,

00:44:38 --> 00:44:45

you know, people try to remember what happened is Reverend saying that that's the day when Serbians fell to the Serbs.

00:44:47 --> 00:44:50

And then during the next like, next

00:44:51 --> 00:44:59

24 to 48 hours over 2000 people have been slaughtered. You know, that's how extensive and quick and brutal it is.

00:45:00 --> 00:45:16

was and then in the next five to five to seven days there was another over 5000 people have been killed and slaughtered on the way as they were trying to escape from reverence towards

00:45:18 --> 00:45:20

to Islam. Now during

00:45:23 --> 00:45:38

this email, our email he was talking about at that time he was like 1718 and he was very young any one of his assignments was as a reporter to go to Tuzla airport and

00:45:39 --> 00:45:53

report about these people coming from severance and he said you know he will never forget some of the things that he saw how these people were arriving they were going through the heli Budi

00:45:54 --> 00:46:13

mountains, you know, four days trying to escape from Serbians to to safe area in Tuzla. It's like Assam 60 some kilometres. Okay. And it took them days and he will see people you know, they were scared, they were

00:46:15 --> 00:46:25

hungry. They were their claws were torn. They were without shoes would you would just, you know, terrible situation, you know?

00:46:26 --> 00:46:26


00:46:29 --> 00:46:30

Have you heard people

00:46:31 --> 00:46:40

who have gone through it? And survived because anything that has happened because tests are free, like, you know, an evil like this, usually.

00:46:43 --> 00:47:23

There are good ultimately you can see some people they don't see But sometimes, you know, some evil might happen in your life, but then a greater good happens right? So God out of his ultimate wisdom, he allows certain things to happen for a greater good, and we see a lot of people have you talked to them that before this happen? they really weren't focusing on they weren't serious in life they really were just you know, living life without any purpose. But this really this this tragedy forced them to wake up to see that man I can you know, all this can these blessings can be taken away I need to take life seriously and follow me How have you?

00:47:24 --> 00:47:29

Well, a lot of people before this conflict in, in Bosnia, they were

00:47:31 --> 00:47:53

basically running after the material world, okay. And neighbors were competing with neighbors, you know, who's gonna have a better car who's going to have a bigger house and things like that. Very little attention was given to the to the creator and what will happen when I die, you know? And so,

00:47:55 --> 00:48:13

during this conflict, a lot of people realize, look, you know, they were happy dating Carrie, they lost everything, you know, all the material possessions as long as they save their head, their life. Hmm, you know, so many of them realized and many turned back to God and became good believers, you know,

00:48:14 --> 00:48:25

but then some of some of those ones, the Catholic Catholics stop, they turn back to the old ways, you know, yeah, but a lot of them stayed true to,

00:48:26 --> 00:48:27


00:48:28 --> 00:48:30

what they turned back to, you know,

00:48:31 --> 00:48:38

they became good Muslims, good believers, and they stayed on that path. Yeah, they learned the lesson. And

00:48:39 --> 00:49:00

about some, some will never learn the lesson until it is too late to Orthodox Christians from that area Do they know and that was our lack of educating? Do they know that we as Muslims love Jesus? Do they know that we believe in Heidi messenger Do they know that there are so many commonalities between between us? I doubted because

00:49:01 --> 00:49:01


00:49:03 --> 00:49:17

you doubted they know that? I doubt they know that. Maybe some maybe there are. Priests probably know that. But they don't teach them about it. Yeah. Because it's not in their interest. Okay. They will probably lose the job.

00:49:18 --> 00:49:59

So, I mean, even many Muslims in Bosnia don't know that. You know, if you mentioned Jesus, it's like, wow, you know, you know, it's like, and they don't realize that Jesus was just another great prophets of God, you know, and that he was also a Muslim and teaching Islam and teaching message of submitting your will to the will of God that all prophets were teaching, same message and, and submitting your will to the will of God, when translated in Arabic is means Islam. That's all it is. Right? You know, yes. So, you know, so, and you cannot be a Muslim unless you believe in all prophets of God.

00:50:00 --> 00:50:47

cluding Jesus, you know, yeah, you can't be all if Muslims are learning their faith, okay and practicing their faith and then teaching others non Muslims you know that we love Jesus. Maybe the relationship would be better with other non Muslim people because they will realize hey, they also revere respect and love Jesus just like we yeah we just don't worship him as a god or literal Son of God right because Jesus never called people to worship himself but he called people worship God and and that that's amazing because that's what I'm talking about the internal right to be sincere with ourselves and look internally what we need to we need some adjustments we need to make some

00:50:47 --> 00:50:57

adjustment to start living really submission to the will of God. Right not forgetting our Creator, right. And then wondering, you know, calamities happen and then what what do you expect? Yeah, and and, you know,

00:50:58 --> 00:51:21

probably all Christians in in in, in, in former Yugoslavia don't realize that Jesus was a Muslim. Yeah, some ego. Let we're almost out of time. You You told me once that the Bosnians there they had, they were called before the Bogo bought What was it called? Bosnians, the history of Bosnian

00:51:22 --> 00:51:26

Bosnian Muslims goes back to like,

00:51:29 --> 00:51:31

seventh century when when

00:51:33 --> 00:51:34

one group of

00:51:35 --> 00:52:13

Christians, Orthodox Christians from Bulgaria to avoid the persecution because they were they were a believing their their belief was very close to the Islamic belief like like those early Christians you know, that follow the message of Jesus very closely. So and they believed in one God and also on on on some of their tombstones there was a moon and you know, just like Muslims have a crescent and so they moved from Bulgaria west to Bosnia into mountainous in Bosnia is a three quarter mountainous

00:52:15 --> 00:52:26

country. So they were they were they were being called Bogo means bog means God and mill deer. So they were called people do to God and

00:52:28 --> 00:52:56

the Catholics from Croatia. We're constantly attacking them and trying to get a catalyst for them, make them Catholics. And then they from from East, the Serbs were attacking them trying to make them Orthodox Christians. they resisted that successfully by moving into mountains and defending themselves. Then when the Ottoman when the Turks came, the Ottoman Empire, and especially

00:52:59 --> 00:53:00

Sultan, Al Fati.

00:53:02 --> 00:53:12

He brought Islam to Bosnia back in 15th century. And there were they and they were very tolerant of these people that they found in Bosnia.

00:53:14 --> 00:53:34

And they allow them to practice their way their religion, and, you know, they were they did not force them to become Muslims. So when when these bookmobiles saw how tolerant Turks were with them, they voluntarily embraced Islam, there are cases that are, you know, on one field.

00:53:36 --> 00:54:23

In one day, over 60,000 of these people embraced Islam. This isn't history is not a history document. Wow. You know, so most of the Muslims in Bosnia, come from bogus. Yeah. And from from these people that came from Bulgaria, and then some are from the, from the torques that stayed in Bosnia. Okay, when the Turkish Ottoman retreated back to Turkey after 1870 a barrel in Congress, okay. And then some are local people, you know, Catholics or Orthodox Christians that embraced Islam, because they believe in their message or they want to keep their position, you know, in their society. Yeah, so but those are minority numbers, you know.

00:54:24 --> 00:54:40

And these extremist Serbs they hate these Muslims and they column traders, you know, they they believe that they that Muslims before were Orthodox Christians that embraced Islam, when they

00:54:41 --> 00:54:44

you know, Ottoman Empire came into the

00:54:45 --> 00:54:59

Balkans, but they were just following the the organic the true way of Jesus, and Moses and Abraham they all submitted their will to God. That's all we're doing. Now if there's there are a lot of because the the the the message of purity

00:55:00 --> 00:55:23

theism it resonates with the heart and if there's what advice and we got to curtail it we got to cut it we went a little bit over time but for any Serbian for any Croatian any part Slavic from that part of the world who's not stuck on it okay. Islam doesn't call you to you if you become a Muslim tomorrow Do you have to stop being a serb? No you're still a serb but you're you are your ethnicity is Serbian. Yes. Okay. If they're if they want to

00:55:24 --> 00:55:57

be a serb, but nationalism is Serbian. Yeah. Okay. So if they want to be right with God, they don't believe that Jesus, praying to Jesus. And many people reject this, right? But they just kind of go along with the flow. They're like, I don't believe you know, Jesus died for my sins. I don't believe that he was the literal Son of God. But I believe in the God that Jesus worship, and I like this concept of worshiping the Creator, not the creation, you know, and I want to look into more of the life of Prophet Mohammed, I believe he was the final message it did a little research or they watched some of the de shows, and and what advice but you know, what, it's very difficult. I had we

00:55:57 --> 00:56:32

had an individual name is good. I won't mention his last name. And others who who have spent a little time with Muslims, and they, it connects because the message is believable. It's based on proof, but they get a lot of backlash from the community. What advice do you have for them? Well, you know, I tell these people, let's analyze and see what Jesus was doing. You know, and I say, you know, this, and let's see who is better Christian, you or me? They say how can you be a better Christian? Or what do you are a Muslim? You know, how can you be a better Christian me? And when you're a Muslim, I said, well, let's analyze this. Let me ask you a few questions. Who did Jesus

00:56:32 --> 00:56:42

pray to? And they say he prayed to God, okay. I said, okay, but who do you pray to? Who do most of the Christians pray to? Most of them pray to Jesus.

00:56:43 --> 00:56:52

Then, how did Jesus pray, you know, you know, there are pictures of him. I mean, not pictures, but the drawings of him,

00:56:53 --> 00:57:12

kneeling down on the ground, on his forehead, and on on palms of hands praying, okay. That's how he was praying. And how Muslims pray. That's how Muslims pray. You know, and, and Christians pray on their knees or standing, you know, and then I asked him, okay, Did Jesus.

00:57:14 --> 00:57:21

Was Jesus circumcised? Yes, he was the a day. Okay. And all of his disciples were circumcised, you know, and,

00:57:23 --> 00:57:28

you know, and all early Christians were circumcised. Now all Muslim boys get circumcised.

00:57:29 --> 00:57:30

You know,

00:57:32 --> 00:57:43

and, but most Christians don't get circumcised especially like in these, you know, Serbs and other people. You know, they don't believe in that.

00:57:44 --> 00:58:35

The difference is in western countries where they practice hygiene, okay. Then I asked them, okay, Did Jesus eat pork? You know, they say no, you know, they know that, you know, and I say, okay, Muslims don't eat pork. Okay. But most Christians eat pork. So how do you greet people? And yes, that's another thing. I asked them. I said, you know, what was his greeting? Are they they don't know. It was a shalom Aleykum which you can check this. It's in in Luke, chapter 24, verse 36. And you can verify this yourself, okay? And Muslims greet each other Salam aleikum, which means peace be upon you. So what do you know about Christians don't don't say salaam aleikum to each other Peace be

00:58:35 --> 00:59:16

with you know, so, you see, Muslims are doing all they are they are actually following the teachings of Jesus they doing what he is doing, saying what he is saying, calling me God he was calling Yeah, he worship. Muslims are not, you know, Jesus is not worshiping himself. Now. He was teaching his followers to worship God who created him. Yes. But why? Most Christians are worshipping Jesus when he did not worship himself. Yeah, not following his teachings, you know, yeah. So Muslims are following all of his teachings. Yeah. So who is better a Christian? Now, if if, if we decide that, you know,

00:59:17 --> 00:59:20

if we decide that, you know,

00:59:23 --> 00:59:59

according to the, if we judge who is better, Christian, according to what you following? Are you following teachings of Jesus, then, you know, Muslims who follow his teachings, they are, you know, better Christians than Christians, because they're not following his teachings. But this is just very interesting. It's even translated because he spoke Aramaic that he called on God by name, Aloha, Aloha, Aloha, this is it. So if any wants to see her, they'll see the truth is they're in submission to the will of God, which is Islam and a Muslim is somebody one, like you said, who submits their will to God and Arabic a Christian so they they call God

01:00:00 --> 01:00:38

Allah Yeah. This is it. Okay, so. So a person if he Serbia and Croatia, whatever first day would you say they gotta be sincere with God and not be worried about the national because that's not nationalism not going to save you on a day of judgment? If they say they are following they are they are good Christians, then they should be honest with you they should find really what Jesus was teaching and follow that his message and and not following what the church is teaching them. Yeah. Because, you know, churches teaching them things that many things that Jesus did not teach and there are contradictory to teachings of Jesus. is Islam open to all the Christians? Is it open toleration?

01:00:38 --> 01:00:45

Is it open from they can accept it anytime? Yes, yes. And anybody's Welcome to learn about Islam and to

01:00:46 --> 01:01:25

embrace and submit their will to will of God. Yeah, I want to thank you very much. We went this was very exciting show again, reiterating, visiting not to forget. So we can help prevent this genocide, which was the greatest genocide on European soil after world war two last closing comments and suggestions for for the people listening, who are out there, and they have, you know, many, they've been affected by the hate machine, they hear a lot of negative things about Islam, you know, what do you what do you like to tell people who have been affected by the hate machine?

01:01:26 --> 01:01:31

Well, I would say that they need to do their own research and find the truth. And

01:01:33 --> 01:01:50

one of the reasons why God sent us to this earth is to improve relationships with each other and to help each other. And we should work on that. Dr. ceviche, thank you very much fall asked us to build a snowman. Now by program. Thank you very much. My pleasure, I

01:01:54 --> 01:02:07

ask God for forgiveness for our shortcomings, honey, and hopefully, this will be useful information and it will stimulate those who don't know about this situation to do a little more

01:02:09 --> 01:02:15

of their own research and to learn a little bit more about it and maybe help

01:02:16 --> 01:02:19

in future to prevent such things. Whatever it is,

01:02:20 --> 01:02:59

I mean, thank you so much. And thank you for tuning in to the de show. And I hope you got to benefit revisiting this history so we can prevent God Willing through awareness something tragic like this some evil like this happening again. And if you're a serb your creation, whoever you are out there, Islam is open for all of mankind. You just got to be sincere with yourself and ask the owner, the creator of mankind for guidance, start there and continue to tune in every week here to the deen show. And we'll see you next time. If you have any questions, concerns, call us one 800 662 Islam we're here to help. And we do this out of the love. We'll see you next time peace be with you and

01:02:59 --> 01:03:00

I'll make

01:03:04 --> 01:03:07

Jesus was his messenger

01:03:17 --> 01:03:19

is His Messenger

Genocide of Muslims in Bosnia

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