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will dip Neff sun, gamma
So I'm a lover of cattle.
And a lot of galantamine, some allow some of our kind of you know Mohammedan oil earlier. So if you're selling with the slim and kathira to my my bad brothers and sisters, welcome to vrsc conversations. Tonight Our guest is my dear friend and colleague chef as a party, who's visiting us all the way from his planner, Zach Allaha. And we chose this topic as a matter of fact, it says recommendation suggestion as well too, because it's dear to both of us. And we believe it's very, very important our topic for tonight and shallow data from being a student to becoming a teacher. Our journey that took took us more than 25 plus years really, to be where we are today. And if you
look at the effect of all these years, you can find in our beards, mind specific analysis of Islam. But what did we learn in that journey and hamdulillah as you can see Islam portlander Baraka Allah went through phases and generation of the generation until where we are today, specifically for us living here in the West. What's our journey? What's our story? How is that different? How do we contribute to the history for the Muslim community and the Muslim oma and where are we heading in the future? But in order for us to know the answer to this question, let's start from the very very beginning to hopefully inshallah loudhailer it will give guidance for those brothers and sisters are
enthusiastic about seeking knowledge and continue to seek knowledge. What do they look for? How should you look for it, and how to make it productive and fruitful for them in sha Allah tala. And for those brothers and sisters are engaged in Dawa regardless of your age group, you realized at some point in Shall I live like with age and wisdom, you see things differently so what exactly happened to our generation of students at some point and then teachers in the next phase in our lives that led us to where we are here today shallow the worker so that's our discussion with Alonzo john. She so called the Welcome to Valley Ranch Arizona, Santa Monica warahmatullah wabarakatuh It's
my pleasure and honor to always be here at hamdulillah it's not my first time but inshallah it won't be my last time either inshallah Baraka, lovey commsec look at last time you were here we were talking about what you remember gins you only bite me for the difficult topics a spicy topic Yes, exactly. Yes, exorcisms and flying creatures and whatnot no hunger letters damage shala nothing like this shall have that you never know everything emerges and even heartwarming subjects inshallah, on being a subject of being students been delighted.
So what I wanted to just ask you to start with is to tell us about your journey as a student of knowledge. When you join Medina, I'm going to speak about mine, but I want to hear from you first in sha Allah tala, when did this start? And how did it look like to you? And what was it like even to take that journey?
So I applied to Jemaah islamiya, interesting Medina in 1994. I was working at Dell chemical, as a chemical engineer. And I was very involved with the, you know, set if you were here in America, and obviously, at that timeframe, not a lot of people that heard about Medina, actually was almost unknown. And I went for oma in November, I think, November, December of 1994. And I gave in my application, and did not hear back from them until July of 1995. And that's when I got the acceptance letter, July 1995. And 100, I had an offer from Dow Chemical for full time, I was an intern back then. And I had the offer from Medina. So at Hamdulillah, I made the right choice
hamdulillah. And the rest is history from 1995 to 2005. I was in there. But that's an interesting thing. Tell us about this, because I'm sure a lot of students here a lot of brothers and sisters, they have doubt in their mind. They're in college, they're still finishing maybe another degree, and they're wondering, what do I even have a chance if I finish in on my master's degree in psychology or even in business administration or engineering? What are my chances to pursue Islamic studies or religious knowledge afterwards? So you know, it's been, what 27 years, life has changed in America. It's difficult for those of you that are in your 20s now or even early 30s to understand how Islamic
Dawa was back in 1992 it's very difficult. The number of books in the English language on Islam by Muslims, I could have them on one shelf two shows the set the number of words who did we have to listen to? I grew up listening to Jamal by the way and Sarah and Allah protect them and but we all knew that they were due to not rule them out. We knew that and they didn't
amazing job. We didn't have trained clerics ruler ma who spoke English as a mother language, right? It's a different world altogether. So there is no chaos of 2021 on 1992 93 people there were no American as her graduates American, but the undergraduates that were active here in America at the time, even some of the big names that we know, you know, known imams at the Imams and others they were not on the scene in 1990 who did it who you know, actually, yeah, so I mean, it was a different world. So at that stage there was no alternative for me if I wanted to study in except to leave everything and go 1000s of miles away and abandon my career and leave my family and do that but the
world has changed and if you really want to study you can do so now with the internet now we there was no internet in 9293 you can do so with so many institutes in this part of the world you don't you can do so via your own local teachers over here so that was not the only way didn't have computers back then. We didn't even have computers that what we had computers bro, that's not good. Let's not go into the dark ages. And 80s was when I got my first computer I'm talking about the Medina University and Medina Okay, you will not have been allowed to actually type up your research paper you have to live with your hand is when I was in Medina, I had a computer at home, I had to
get special permission to submit my research papers typed up, because the institute couldn't understand that a student might have a computer and is going to type it up because how do I know you wrote this is like you could be just downloading whatever and he didn't know how to do it like get permission. So that was the era I had in Medina. There's those research papers when I have every single mother Kira, every single bar, every single thing I ever did, all of them are in my nice big folders. If you ever lose my house, I can show you I saw them and I have mine as well to exactly the legacy that you can really just let go of so easily. And my experience when I first joined Medina
speak about the first impression, obviously,
at the time I was still young was a teenager was about 19 years old actually. And so excited that I was accepted to Medina and hamdulillah was amazing. But in my mind, Medina looked like back in the time of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam literally that's what I thought the university is going to look like. I thought I'm going to go that I'm going to meet a man Malika bananas
Allah. And I will think that the students will be all dressed up like you see them on TV, right? Those a mama's nice, beautiful, nice job burden, goes into the classroom, sit on the floor and tight, serious seeking knowledge and so on. So when I went there, and I just looked around the just like students like everybody else, and then you're going to the classroom, for God's sake. They have desks and chairs. There is even whiteboards and markers. It was like was so disappointed.
I was so deeply disappointed. I was like, Whoa, I just that's the regular classroom. So I don't know how he was your emotions, your feelings, your expectation when you went there. So Shana, you entered Kalia to Sharia immediately. I entered the short by the Arabic program, right? And people don't know this exceptive they've been through that the Arabic program is great in its academic side. But in terms of the student body, it's literally like a high school.
I was shocked to my first week of Medina. And I see a spit ball thrown in class.
This is like what? Kids whistling at the teachers like that, like the high school antics. People don't understand that for so Medina is an international university. We had 175 nationalities across the globe at that time. And at that time, the Saudis were very few and the the non servitors of the bulk. I think that's changed now. But when I was there, maybe 10%, or the 90% or 85%, non Saudi. So we would have students that had never ever sat in a classroom, we would have students that in the summer times, they wouldn't want the AC on because they said this is unnatural. We want the heat, they were used to the African heat or whatever they're coming. And they said we don't want the AC
on. They're complaining, because like that, so it's a very different, you know, mentality and very different. And I had to deal with the shorba mentality and I was shocked like, what am I doing here? So it took me a while when I got to college and that's when Okay, at least the the sensibility and the maturity came, you know, but that I was blessed go straight to the straight there. Yeah, not to
do you want to talk about the bureaucracy as well and the Ramada?
cracy it's a little nightmare, a nightmare. Again, I'm an American student. The Americans were very few back then very few, literally seven, eight American students. Out of my batch that got accepted. Nobody actually graduate, everybody would just drop out back then. And I obviously I'm an American student, I'm going to open a bank account, okay. I had to literally get nine signatures do tawaf across the entire image up and down. You know, like it's, it's one of the I mean, he didn't know I could read Arabic. You
Have we ever allowed a student to open a bank account? You know, at home, Harrison had to go into, you know, upstairs downstairs like, it's just one of my colleagues you can you believe he had to get permission to ride a bicycle into the university. This was the bureaucracy is a totally different era, you guys don't know, the 90s of Saudi Arabia, when we were not even allowed to have a driver license.
A driver license, not allowed. You couldn't even have a driver license, you couldn't even live outside of campus. Some people did anyway. Well, for us, we were not allowed you guys were blessed with American students. But at times, it was it was a whole different things. So for people to to compare the time that they study right now Islamic Studies, Marcia with the convenience of laptops and computer and access to knowledge in a way that you've never really had access to. But that brings us to a question that we see today. Regarding the quality of the quality. Today, we have an abundance of have martial books of material and have unlimited access to this, if you have a phone
and you have internet on it, you have Wi Fi or Wi Fi connection to the data plan and so forth. That's it, you have access to millions and even billions of research papers and books and so on. Back then, like I said, he had two three books written in English language. And if you wanted to read the book, you have to go to the library. And you have of course, no matter how many books you're going to carry with you, only for the small shelf that you have on your desk to make your research, but the quality was different. Meanwhile, we see from the past several 100 law students of knowledge which grant from Medina, their impact that effect in the Dallas in at least in America and
even around the world as to the martial law is way different than what we see from the time of ours. what's what's what changed. You know, when you have to struggle to get something you appreciate it. You know, all of this jokes that we do about the difficulty of life and the second are our you know, student dorms. I mean, it was so terrible for me. And I'm hamdulillah living in America, middle class family, I could not spend more than a week in the student dormitory, the fee, as you were, you know, the living standards and stuff I just couldn't do. Well, I mean, okay, may Allah that's like you had for me, and I'm saying, okay, and you actually, anyways,
I don't want to go into the horror stories there. Because it's it was the buildings from the 70s. The same buildings from the 70s in a room like this, six students, no walls, you have a sheet. You know, each one is like a mini cell. And you know, the whole floor has one communal bathroom, like 100 students, I don't know, five, six bathrooms? So you do you start thinking like that, you know, and I'm like, I need to, I need to but you know, here's the point. Yeah, we can jack crack jokes and whatnot. But it was in that struggle of being in a foreign land and all of the, the the impediments and the bureaucracy and even somewhat a little bit of the racism, which those of you who live there,
you know, this reality, to overcome that for the sake of it allowed us to appreciate that. And, you know, it's a small sacrifice to pay. And you have to keep on reminding yourself, why am I here, I'm not here for the bureaucracy. I'm not here for the, you know, foolishness or whatever, I'm here for that. So when that changes, and now the ease comes in, and the convenience comes in, so to them, the quality is going to go down. I remember from my first experiences in Medina, two things number one, when I first arrived there, handler, I was taught by a mentor and a senior students who was the diversity there. And he gave me a very simple message, very simple
advice. He said, Listen to me, you're going to spend about four years away, if not, at least four is in Medina. And you're gonna see that the Medina is made of made up of, like I said, hundreds of nationalities of nationalities. You're so excited and eager to learn about Muslims from all around the world. Sometimes countries you've never even heard of before. You see people dressed up in a way just like wow, even as a Muslim this of like, this thing's weird, really, we've seen that. So he said, Take your time. Don't rush into this because if you start making too many friends so quickly, they eat up your time, you're not going to have enough time to do your Eva and do your study. You
spend the rest of your time socializing with them to do them. They're
the one who was the one of the most valuable lessons I learned from the student because truly, I kept for myself the first year particularly in Medina, and I used to go to Medina visit Allah Subhan, Allah hamdulillah and spent a long time at the library and also the library of method in the visitor line of Salem, and reading sometimes scrolls and manuscripts really, and just make your own research on how to start. The first year, I spend most of my time just researching how to seek knowledge. That's it, how to become a true student of knowledge. I spent the whole year doing that. And I made a lot of friends for the rest of Monaco data, but at the same time, I kept my boundaries
to keep things you know, for myself for the light of Oracle data. The other thing I learned from being assertive Medina at the very beginning, obviously when you go there
you own your time, so it's up to you, you can, you can go there and waste your time shopping and enjoying time and look for conveniences and take shortcuts and so on. Or we could just accept the bureaucracy as it is as an obstacle, or as a challenge. For me, I took it as a challenge. One of the one of these challenges is I don't know you didn't have that maybe experienced a lot in Medina, but as a resident of on campus, will never love to have driver's license you can you couldn't own a car, you can drive by yourself. So you have to go by the buses that provides by the school, their system is horrible how to the transportation system, oh my god, that was a nightmare. And they have to
leave all together in certain time certain window, and they come all in a window of maybe 1520 minutes if you missed the bus. Good luck. But here's the thing. I learned it the hard way that that was one of the best things that the university provided for us. Why? Because when you go before us, or domestic abuse of a lot of sell them by the bus, and the buses don't come back until after Asia.
So what are you going to do? You're going to spend your time and machine learning and halaqaat Do whatever you want to do even shopping if you want to do shopping in that area. There was a summer shift when one brother he was leaving Yanni at the time during the summer break. And he was from Kuwait. zelicah so he said why don't you take my car Keep it with you use it in Charlotte until I come back with an answer. I'm like, Oh, really well, there's like a locker only the Kuwaitis could afford back then just so my love will give me without a driver license. I was driving there in Medina. But I use this girl handler to go to camp to go to campus, of course the dorm and go to
visit Allah salon. But the moment he came, I gave him back his Giza desert Kala said, Don't you ever do this again to me? You spoiled I was very spoiled. I lived it was so spoiled, I could leave to the Messenger of Allah Salah literally 1015 minutes before the Adhan, and I'll be the messenger sola, sola. And then I pray my rep, and I'm now started my record open in the must have to review my Koran. And then the shaitaan start coming to you said, Hey, you know, you need to go and pick up this thing and pick up that thing and do this. Just like, Yeah, that's good. Let me just go quickly. I wasted so much time because of that car. So much done. So convenience sometimes can be an
impediment. Exactly. Tell us about your experience when the best part that you you had Medina as a student, what was it? You know, when I was
just accepted, one of this one of the Americans that was leaving, he had just graduated from the College of Hadeeth, a very elderly African American man.
He gave me an advice he was he was leaving that semester after spending seven years in Medina, and this is 1995. The first week I was in Medina, and that was his last week. And he was very nostalgic, very emotional. He said to me, something that really impacted me. And I followed it. Literally, without exception. He said, you're only going to be here a few years. And make sure that you maximize your time in the house some of the profits of the law, why they he was selling them. Don't regret that you didn't come here often enough. And I don't know why. And I remembered vividly, he said this to me, as we're walking outside about was set up, you know, in the process of mischief.
And I remember so clearly, like that just struck my heart. And since that day, until I left in 2005, unless I was sick, or traveling, or O'Meara, I prayed Margaret and Alicia in the harem, without exception for 10 years straight, I would take my book, I would take them with Akira, I would attend the halaqa. But that was my knowledge time. That was the time that I studied on my own, or with the scholars, or my own book that I'm you know, reading, and that was my consistent, you know, moussaka time that I would allocate to that this is my office, my library, and the library of the Harlem is is you know, it's an amazing library, beautiful library, it's actually better than the library of
the jam pack. And I'm saying so before that it was a small one. So when we first used to use it, it was extremely small. So I caught the 9095 that was much expense. Yeah, so the one that I came to is, you know, I mean, you remember that time is massive and beautiful collections of books. So I would spend every day in the house or in the library of the house. And to me, those memories are more in my mind than the memories of sitting in the classroom. That's true. It's common sense. We talk about the experience of knowledge assumptions. Let's talk about our experience with teachers. Obviously when you come to Medina, your expectation that again Sahaba generation Mashallah or Aloma Imam Shafi
Imam, Abu hanifa, all these other moms are gonna be there. So what's your real experience their online chef, let's leave certain things.
Alone with all of my Messiah from Allah.
Georgia bless them I hope they have fallen over me they have they have I owe them a debt and a favor and they are all human beings. So you have some that are Mashallah top notch and you have Maradona, Alec, and you have some that are encyclopedic and you have others you know, so this is, you know, because I stayed there 10 years I mean obviously I went through the entire curriculum and then the masters and then in the heart of any literally over 100 Messiah I studied with so obviously, we have this perception that everyone is going to be absolutely perfect encyclopedic, angelic. Everybody is a human being. So if your teacher was not an alum, you can still learn from you learned an immense
amount how not to teach number one.
The most important thing you learn from a bad teacher is how not to teach. And you also can benefit one of the things that definitely we've benefited from immensely and I know both of us we share our share of entertainment in this regard, is you also benefit from those that are really Zoo hard and clean and Olia and you can tell you can tell those that are genuinely are Ubud worshipers, and those that are Madonna that you can you can tell so those that were of that type and
but I think it was one of them is yellow. The other one is like it like what does it get all the Haida who benefit from their spirituality just to be in their presence? Yeah. And you just the, the all that you have to see firsthand, their,
their demeanor, their lifestyle, I mean, you remember he would walk barefoot in the summer, you saw this, and I saw this, you know, because he thought that was certain that I was interested in the summer heat, that we couldn't even have the AC half full in the car. And he's walking from his house, you know, to, to his his moscon or Nisa, and those things, they impact you. You can sense the sincerity. You can sense his house like he was 77 years old. with cancer, he would be fasting Mondays and Thursdays, and he'd be teaching us all day. And I'll be honest, I wasn't fasting in the summers and or if you're not in the heat, I wasn't fasting, right. He was teaching us all day. And I
didn't even know he was fasting until I noticed on Mondays and Thursdays, he would, you know, be in his private room. And I saw somebody bring food before mother. But then I realized, oh my god, he's actually fasting in this summer heat. You know, and teaching us all day. These small things, they just like impact you in ways that book knowledge Can't you know, you will never ever gain the same amount Sitting at the feet of a chef and alum then you will reading 1015 books, a real item, a genuine item, you will learn more from his o'clock and his interaction than you do from the book knowledge, frankly, and I know you are the same when it comes to what he taught us that summer, I'll
have to go back to my notes and get it. But when it comes to the impact he had on my soul and God that's beyond measure priceless. As a matter of fact, if I compare the four years of academic structural knowledge I learned in
comparison to the few summers that we spent, whichever they mean, during those those years, the impact of these three, four summers that we spend with Chef are
much more valuable to me than the four years together combined in Medina, because when it comes to studying it in a structured way, obviously you're bound by the structure of the teacher, the curriculum, the book itself, the the science that you're studying, but when you when you go like a freelancer and seek knowledge with the Musharraf and orlimar outside of the university, borders and walls, that's when you learn the most valuable thing that you can read from books that are flagged their manners, their style of teaching, even like the most valuable thing I learned from Jeff Rodman addition to his manners on the floor, Mashallah I learned his focus is so focused person Mashallah,
and so well organized. So well organized, the way he organizes his classes, how he starts, how he ends in everything is just like, unbelievable. I haven't seen any other teacher really, who have so much value for time, particularly, he would have that clock that would go
all the time, from
because you have a timer that keeps beeping. And he was just gonna take a break for five minutes for q&a and then start another session. Unbelievable. So that's something of the most valuable thing we'll learn from Michelle orlimar. But the point I wanted to make earlier is that for the brothers and sisters are learning here and asking sometimes for teachers and so on, because people they come to me says, can I learn with you? Do you give me the pleasure of you know, calling you every month or whatever, every weekend and have a session with you online? I said, Where do you live? I live in this city. Oh, that's it. Okay. Why don't you do locally, man? Well, you know, I said, Listen,
sometimes your best asset, really the most valuable knowledge that you'll get the knowledge is just around the corner.
He doesn't have to she doesn't have to be a great alum, a great scholar,
who would whom you need to study but they could be in Charlotte that are great assets for you. They could be the key for you.
To learn something valuable, you might not get from them everything but you can probably at some point you might even surpass the level of knowledge. And we had all these experiences with our teachers, some of them like the chef mentioned you know, they were Mashallah very valuable with knowledge and element structure and others they were just regular teachers there the capacity doesn't go beyond just really give you the material but to the impact of it on you that's on you to go on and work on it and show a lot of articles how you work with the knowledge it's your, your business one experience, if I mentioned mentioned shift shift about my interaction with one of my
was one of my poor aunties and might have co teachers have it all out, are they still Mashallah vanilla, and healthy and alive and and still teaching as well. But I had a very interesting relationship with him. So he was, we were kind of close in terms of age, he wasn't that old. So we became closer as friends more than even as a student and a teacher. So he invited me home to his house. We handed out other students we eat there in his house, we spend some time. And then there was this moment I spoke with him with open heart, really? And I said, Jeff,
why don't you come to our countries in the summer and start teaching in Charlotte, I will come to because me No way. I said, Why? Because I never left. I never in my life left Medina.
I said, What do you mean? He was except going to my town, my small town, small village, somewhere in the desert, north of Medina, and to Mecca. Other than that, he says, I've never been outside haven. He'd never been even to Jeddah, he had never been to around the capitals of Arabia. And that was the teacher. And I was shocked. I said, I thought I said shift. But that's not fair. Because what I mean, I said us students, us, or international students, we come from all over the world, our experiences are different than yours. So when you give us interpretation of the Quran, the meaning of the words of the Quran, you give it from your own perspective, which is completely different from
what we are going to be experiencing once we leave this country, we're going to be dealing with it differently. So how are you going to convey to us the true meaning of the Quran? If you've never experienced what the least of what we go through in our country, at the time I came from, that I was born in Kuwait, hamdulillah conservative community and still not like people who come from from Europe come from America come from Africa, they come from some liberal on an extreme liberal electric community somewhere else. He said, so what do you suggest for me? I said, please share, if you don't mind this summer, sign up with the dour program that the university gives, because every
summer they send their teachers around the world, to give the route and give some halaqaat and programs and so on and recruit some students for the university to come and study has one essential goal. So what is said anywhere? Let's go just go somewhere and see for yourself. He said, I don't think so. I said, please do so. So I kept talking to him somehow convinced. And finally. So by the end of that school year, he said, I signed up to go to Indonesia, Indonesia. And I said, Hey, still Muslim country. Alhamdulillah, go for it. He goes there. And then when he came back at the end of the summer, he calls me because come to Let's have dinner together. So I go there was holidays house
and the first thing he goes to the Zakat locker for that advice. And that's my teacher.
He goes Jazakallah fer for this advice. If you haven't pushed me to do that, I will never experience this in my life. And he had a beautiful experience, Mashallah, the fact that he went there, and he saw how students who are non Arab, and their martial law they're so eager to learn and study and so dedicated students of knowledge, living in the middle in the middle of so liberal and secret society, like the real challenges that the chef reads about, and talks about, they live it. And for him, that was a transformation experience every single year since that year, he starts going out to different countries to get that experience. I'm so happy that he did Mashallah. Because I know for
sure, when he taught people after the Quran, there was a whole different experience for him. What are you some of your experiences with some of the teachers there? schiffman.
So, I was blessed to study outside the JAMA and with the Java, so 100 outside the Java, I had a number of teachers in Quran and in Hadeeth one of them you should all know his name, I'm sure she had severe amount of bug 40 the author, Rohit and matam. Hello, humble. Just, you know, what, where does one begin? Well, lucky if you were to see him, you know, in the, in the house, you would maybe think he's a worker or something, the simplicity, the style, the job is like old and he couldn't care less. And yet, he's a bout of Hadeeth and of zero. And handler wants to get to him and he I first my first ages and Hadeeth was with him. I read a body in
the heart of the process and with him until that home when he got cancer and he goes I cannot continue anymore. And he passed away after that. But so just to be with him.
reading my Koran teacher before that first set of Koran a whole year, I got my jazz and put on every day consistently to do that. I've spoken many times about one of the teachers that impacted me the most. And I did a video interview with him two years ago before he passed away shift out of me, who became the Dean of the College of Hadeeth. Right? I could not believe his story. It's mind boggling. It's still mind boggling to this day, born a Hindu family in a family in India, converting to Islam in the 50s right bunkie lol was his name. In a Brahmin family. His family tried to kill him he fled to madrasa then they said to him, why don't you go study, you know, somewhere else it was Where can
I go? Well, there's a university in Medina. So without even knowing anything, he just fled for his life. Next thing you know, years go by finishes his PhD and as hard because there was no PhD in whether you know, and he ends up a college of Hadith professor, he rises rises in ranks by the time I got accepted. The last year I was in Medina, he was the Dean of the College of Hadeeth before his retirement, right. And again, I studied with him an entire year I got to Georgia from him, I visited his house multiple times. Just how can I even begin to explain to you this person who is a world renowned scholar of Hadeeth, and the knowledge of my mind that this person was born and raised a
Hindu. And now he is the Dean of the College of Hadeeth. And it was just and so that's why when I would come back to America give his stories I visited him some people didn't believe me, so three, four years ago, and I went to Medina, I said, people not believing your story. I have to interview you. So I put the interview on YouTube Brooklyn's to it it's in my booty booty, or do you can listen to it online. You study with people like this How can it not impact you by the way he was the one the first person to tell me you should go get your masters from another university. like Dr. Lee the mindset of some Messiah that no no stay here is to stew but it's the forward thinking once you know
is the ones who understand the reality of the world. He's told me the first person to tell me you should not do even your masters you want to be to go overseas you wanted to go back was it don't do it over here, it's good to have a different air different you know, like that. So, but also shuts off on Hawaii when he also told me he was one of the way I was concerned about coming back here for my PhD he goes not why'd you buy that because you have to go do your PhD elsewhere. So these are different types of mentalities of people the impact you thought you have others that are on a different level you know, I owe it after the blessing of Allah subhanho wa Taala to shift several
Howard to be accepted to Medina he told me the story
we both have a connection with
the author of the array can have an experience you can't really read that in book so you have to live it honestly. I don't know if you know that but I'm sure if I told you the story or not. But he was our guide. Literally, he was our guide on a trip
to hyper like we took him because he's the car expert obviously. So we took him to an on a field trip. So we took them as students we took them with us all the way to fiber. And we said Jeff, tell us here's the site is Hi Bob, how did it go? And he was telling us this area that area from that direction we have to exchange notes because when the last time we met he was about to leave and retire. Me and one other student It was a private tour of Ohio and the Battle of our hood and then what is behind a herd we went all the way there so I did that tour with him. You did haber so inshallah we go together and we'll swap the nose is
the most beautiful thing really is you being with him on the top of that hill and the top of that fortress there and he goes this is this place is called so and so so I live it must have come from this direction and just when he speaks like this and Oliver told me he must have come from this direction you just look there you just really visualize a level of your talent and the army coming through the strait that edge is like wow it's really like a time machine Yeah, you just travel through time and just live those are those beautiful moments of Harlem Sure, let's talk about some of our not so may be pleasant experiences.
Well we have to set the expectation right for the students of knowledge because everybody thinks that will come to citizen knowledge and what their Mashallah lovey w brothers and sisters, Mashallah. feasibly they learn everything and so on. But sometimes even amongst that knowledge, there'll be some factions partisanship and all the stuff and so on. What was that all about? Well, I wherever you go, there's always politics is the reality of the world. Wherever you go, any of you who works in a corporation, you understand how it works, okay? It is the reality of every single group of people Allah says in the corner with john about other human development fits in. We're
gonna make some groups amongst you fitna for other groups at the hospital and will you be patient or not? And some time some of the worst of these fits and come from any religious folks, you know, this is the reality sometimes they exaggerate things or read and things. So when we have some time
really long session when we were there in the 90s, it was a phase that the kingdom was undergoing, that phase is now gone to different phases now. But when we were there, there was a strand of let's just call them ultra conservative, hardcore types of people who really were very focused on one or two individuals, and you had to be a part of their circles. And if you weren't, then you're outside and whatnot. It was a very
difficult time. For me who didn't know anything about these reality, I was completely naive about these strands within sort of a completely no idea literally thought, everybody's going to be practicing and pious and whatnot. And you go there and you find some really bad luck. I even saw fist fights on the campus of Medina fist fights over this issue over this issue of you're this and you're that, like, this is the there's still in the end of the day college kids, aren't they right? They're still 21 year old kids, they're still you're coming of age and whatnot. And, you know, people getting angry and boycotting and not saying sit down and along with Stan, this whole concept.
So our shall our future generation of students of knowledge and so forth, be aware of it and not to fall for it, unfortunately, like we did, had to deal with in Medina. And what the chef was describing, really, maybe two years before that, this one all started. So we were the in the the beginning of all that that whole mess started. And I was at the end of it, you came at the end of the weekend start I started with Subhan Allah I even was chef I was the I was a student of the teachers that you were talking about. So I used to go there houses are good to learn. So today,
when you start seeing that the whole atmosphere around the shift is changing, because we didn't have some bad students bad apples. And they're only there to instigate, you know, the shape and the and the whole topic of factionalism and so forth. It just becomes a very toxic environment. So I stopped going there. And because I stopped going there, I became a target of their attacks as well too. And hamdulillah we stood our ground to stay neutral as much as we can, because we came to learn when it came to the inside, really for the life of our Katana.
But if we want to give advice to the young brothers or sisters today when it comes to as they seek knowledge, and they start developing loyalties to their teachers, and their, their Institute's, and so on. So what advice would you give people So firstly, I do have a longer lecture, you can listen to what my experience is in Medina, which is meant for those that are involved in the reputation culture, I also have a library chat about reputation cultures, listen to that as well for the market emic site. Secondly, my advice is very, very simple. If you find yourself more worried about the mistakes of other people than building your own good, then that is a problem. If you're more
interested in destroying other people's reputations than you are in building your own off hitter, then you're with the wrong crowd. It's as simple as that. And I realized this back in the Medina days, without knowing any of these factions, Phil called women who say something's not right. I didn't know anything from anything. But something was not right, looking at the anger and the hatred that one group had. And the other group didn't have it. The ones that I was like that was they weren't responding to that, you know, they were they were busy with when they were busy with And generally speaking, there was one group that was more involved in knowledge. And one group one
volunteer a few doing those people have knowledge, like what's going on here, you know, and unfortunately, many of the Western students were attracted to the Lauder group.
And I found myself wanting to leave that to go to him. But when you did that, then they started talking about you. And that's what happened to the both of us, you know, in that tiny phase. And that continues, by the way, you still see the smoking line, the same mentality of fault finding and making something that isn't a mistake into a mistake or exaggerating a small thing into a very big thing. Yeah, here's some how to like even if your brother has made a mistake, okay? Don't you have something better to do than to be obsessed with his mistakes and whatnot. So my advice is very simple. Anytime you find a chef or a movement or an institute that concentrates more on the
reputations of others, oh, that federal court and that shelf and whatnot. That's not how you're going to build your own email you do not build your mind by destroying the amount of other people that's not at all the student of the profitsystem concentrate on yourself and your own mistakes and build your own your own relationship with Allah subhana wa, loyalty should always be to the end to the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam, not to any particular shape, not to any particular institute that you study with. It's always the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, that's what really unifies the people. When people start building
loyalties to their teachers loyalties to their Institute's and everybody's are now debating and fighting over. You know, these issues. The funny thing chef's of hammer that we know
Also when we realized is that in many, many situations, sometimes these debates happen only among the students, the younger students, but the senior students have knowledge. They're oblivious to that. And if not, then they don't really care much about it. It's a standard cycle.
The freshmen, the one who just comes in, assumes that the situation and the matter is clear, black and white, his teacher said x, it must always be x. Anybody who dares disagree is wrong. And the more you learn, the more you study, you realize, hold on a sec. Actually, x is just one opinion. There's like so many other positions out there. It's not the only one out there. And you and this is why as our scholars said that with their incomes, humility within you, that's when you realize, you know what, I understand why each man has a different, you know, again, I remember clearly when you first begin studying, you think the old Roger is this helaas there is no other this is the Sunnah.
That's it nobody can possibly disagree. And you're 19 years old, and you think you know better than you mama Shafi. You think that you can do fruit Oh, honey, for him, Allah Tada, you think that everybody a mammal has it was what panela this is arrogance. Humble yourself, humble yourself. That's one opinion. The more you study, the more you realize that, you know, there are ways to interpret that vary from Adam to Adam, and he could inherit the shallow talent from the lower now, since we've been become teachers for all these past years. Especially as we move from the heart of a Muslim land, where everybody's martial law predominantly, at least, you know, practicing the bare
minimum. Then coming here, where you are in the midst of the Muslim community with different challenges and different of course, you know, expectations and needs and so forth.
What do you see me between the difference between what we learned and what we came here to practice? You know, when help the people practice in this in this society, I think one of the fundamental issues that the students have knowledge and also, all of us are all of you know, those that are not students who are attending our lectures or whatnot. I think one of the most important things we need to underscore is that the knowledge that is taught and advanced institutions and mother offices in adulthood and Deobandi in Medina, it is knowledge that is meant to train an island of [???]y muhaddith. It is meant for abstract issues, you know, advanced theology, Advanced Filter advanced,
what the fact of the matter is, 90% of the questions that we get asked, Have nothing to do with our curriculum, I want you to understand that point 90% of the questions that all of you asked the Messiah, we don't study them in our books, because we're studying extremely advanced things. Okay. I'll never forget Jani I came back my first summer that I'm teaching some advanced tissue of appeals, because that's what the one you should use. You don't want to graduate from a deonette. Right? And teaching Guam in Houston or whatnot. Most of the questions coming back are about marriage and divorce and credit cards and business and whatnot. Like, I just gave a lecture about the Annika
Wakata. And I'm disconnected. The reality is I was disconnected. And one of the biggest gaps that every seminary has in the Muslim world. And I say this every and I challenge you to prove me wrong. Every mainstream seminary still does not realize and by by mainstream remit the bundle as her the obon. Mme Estonia, Malaysia is now about all the domains. They don't realize that there is a pastoral element that is needed by the sheer, there is no pastoral training in our Institute's zero. If you go to any seminary of a Jewish background, or a Christian background, any
at least half of the courses are about Serbia, and pastoral care about recognizing depression, about helping your your your community with their personal issues. You think we're trained in marriage and divorce issues? You think we're trained about how to see suicide in a teenager you think but that is what is needed when we graduate and come back to our homes and our communities. That issue is 100% absent completely give me a call give it to you right now, ask me an advanced issue of Zakat of any crops or whatever bought or something I'll look it up for you and tell you but come to me with a teenager and he's contemplating something you shouldn't contemplate you think I know how to deal
with that. So
I want to mention something some Hello remember we came to one of our teachers have
said sure, are we gonna have it because we were coming to the end of the of the school year says are we gonna have any specific sessions on modern day economics? like talking about credit card, these issues and so on. So like modern issues of over facade and you answer, the chef is 100 we have that it's covered, as the words that we have a hole
in the book of sales.
And transactions basically said that that helps you do that. And for us, the students, I will look at each other just like whether the chef is really trying to avoid the answer, because he just doesn't want to put extra effort to teach that stuff, or badly because maybe they don't really have the training for themselves. So therefore, we just kind of like, we'll just stand by that. And just our knowledge would usually start at the classical works of which lecture I've mentioned would be a textbook answer. And frankly, nowadays, when people come to me and ask me specific questions of that nature, I tell them, do you need a textbook answer? Or do you want an actual an actual practical
answer? So this is one of the things as well, that the successful students, and you know, this, and I know this is successful students of all seminaries and institutes are those that take the foundational premises, and then go their own way.
And those that stay within the books and the curriculum that they learned, they're never going to be going beyond this to benefit the average people out there. You have to learn to think on your own the way that I, I phrased this when I explained this to you know, another class that I taught, the way that I phrased This was imagine going to the top notch medical school in the world, with the greatest facilities and the greatest doctors and whatnot. But you're coming from a village in South America, and you're going to go to the Amazon forest, your training is disconnected from the reality of your peoples. You are learning sterile environments, and you know, do this and that and you have
all the equipment, when you're going to get back over there, there ain't gonna be some laboratory to do assessments or whatnot. And you're going to have to see diseases and issues and improvise. Now, if some young kid giving a hypothetical example, downloads the PDF of medical school of Harvard, you know, in the Amazon, and then says to shut down the bridges who came back from that Institute, hey, the PDF says you should do this. Right? This is the problem that people like us face. This is one of the biggest from the reputation culture. It can be summarized in this way. Hey, this PDF that I downloaded from the internet, it shows me that you're making a mistake. Excuse me, I studied with
the author of the PDF. I studied many more subjects than you for 10 years, I understand exactly where you're coming from, you don't understand where we're coming from. We have to move beyond and understand our culture, our context, our people. It's a totally different world. And that's why one of my points that have always been saying, since I got back from Vienna has been made a lot of trouble. We don't outsource our fatawa do not ask a Mufti 5000 miles away about a thing that is related to you over here, your context matters. Your context matters, do not go to websites about cultural fatawa fatawa about even business issues that are relevant here, because they vary from
time to place to culture, an order form or haccombe your order plays a role in these things. So to get a fresh customs here, to get a footwear from somebody who doesn't even know your customs, you don't I mean, we can give so many examples of the word is even one begin. I don't want to you know, it goes specifically in subject of transactions when it comes to the subject almost every issue of Tisha Bo have a yard of women driving cars, you know, our teachers told us it is how long you know, your wife should not be driving cars. Our teachers told us this my teachers have also had Musharraf says you can't use a credit card for example. Yeah, and you like these fatawa are disconnected from
the reality of the worlds we live in. So now to go back to with utmost love and respect to assume that their fatawa are binding on us. The world is different for them as it is for us. So if we take their soul we take their foundational premises, and then we think them through rethink them through that is what really is well this is why what happened with Ogallala as a matter of fact, even for him Allah tala when it comes to his film, if you say this is the middle of a honey for himolla, most of the opinions are not visible by Honeywell himself. As a matter of fact, you coming from his students, visible party, hummable has an shavon and others, because they learned from their teacher
they developed their opinions based on the principle they learned from their teachers work because their time was different. In my medical, Mr. lagana, when he wants was, he received the delegation that came from from an endless, a far, far away land, for months travel just to come from Spain, all the way to Medina, and the head of the delegation and the delegates were so excited and they had a whole list of questions that were sent to them with them. But some students acknowledge and teachers from them they asked my mother, what's the ruling on this? What's wrong with this was this the Mr. Maliki said that he said I agree to most of these questions except for view. And then the person who
was asking he was shocked and surprised like this is in America, everybody's talking about like, I came all the way from Spain to ask this question. That's what I'm getting. At. I don't know. So in my mind, it is a
I told my mother What am I gonna tell the people? He goes tell them I asked my mother all these questions because I don't know. Like, I don't care. I don't know. I don't know what what Spain look like a my mother could barely left Medina, Ohio lol Donna. And one thing about folk that people don't understand is that folks supposed to give you the answer? Nowadays you go to a lot of machines with all due respect to Michelle Obama and Imams, even sometimes when you ask them a complex question whether it's about let's say bitcoins or this or that and so on. And they give you a
classical answer a textbook answer really specific about divorce about marriage issues, and they say, well, that's what it is, but my situation XYZ, what is the answer whether you like it or not, and I had this experience with one of the Michelle's sometimes a panel when you ask them the question, and they stuck to the answer that comes just from a textbook, an hour, but to put an application to the answer into real world and real life. It's just like, it's on you to practice that how you want to practice this answer. So there's a huge cultural element when it comes to contextualizing right. And that is why it is important for the Mufti to be a part of the culture
that he's giving the photo in. It is important for the Mufti to understand the context of the fatwa. You know, there's this very classic example you can use this guy's is very interesting example. EMA modic. was asked about women and men who are not related to one another eating on the same table together not terrible, you know, the floor and whatnot. He goes, yes. Monica is in Medina around 150 hegira. He died 179. So 150 hegira. Poverty is still in Medina, it's not hasn't reached the level of later on. So yes, if they're wearing dress properly, no problem. 100 years later, Mm hmm. But then, but that, but that is the capital budget that is very wealthy, but that you have different living
rooms for men and women, and they're not sitting together under your jersey, my mother was asked, and he goes, No, they should be separate. So then he said, Mr. Malik said that, that they're allowed to be together if they're dressed properly. And it goes well, if that's there, then Okay, it's allowed, if that's their custom, that men and women are sitting on the same, you know, table because you know, back then they did multi multiple rooms didn't exist in Medina. Like we're not multiple rooms, right? This is a simple example. And this is the example about you know, gender segregation, if at all, by the time even I met in bucket dad 240 higit. All right. 240 100, there is wealth,
there is power, there is stability. And in my mind, it's time he finds it strange, why should men and women sit together and then eat if a family comes and visits the woman go to the women's section, let them and go to the men's section, right? But in my mother didn't have that luxury, and everybody ate together back then. Now you go to a federal website, in a country where every single office is completely segregated, right? Where universities are segregated, then you ask a person from that society? Uh huh. Can I go and study I heard this my own years. If the university you go to his co editors, how long for you to go?
Play Let's sit at home remain giant for the rest of your life. If you're going to follow that for the utmost respect, utmost respect, there is a disconnect between book knowledge and between the lived realities that we are in and that's why when you study there, you realize the dangers of uncut textualist book knowledge. Right? So keep in
the word limit though, who is the one who's responsible to excellent break away from the excellent book book or textbook knowledge and start giving these actual years old law Hema algebra woman shed the shed the fun now the scholars of every locality should cooperate amongst themselves? So it's not for the average Muslim to make their own? Of course not. Because I don't want people to come up from this as you see you're the
if you've got if you've trained for 10 years just in sha Allah but this is for those that have studied and know soul and no filter know what not and then amongst the odema and 100 other many councils there's um Joe there's Phil Council of North America you know, there's the other councillors when California has multiple councils that groups of students of knowledge and aroma come together and I my advice to you is to follow these larger groups as much as you can that's the best thing to do a
couple of more question before we open for q&a inshallah tada in regards to the fan culture that created the was created in the in the US particularly something we saw some something similar to it when we're in Medina and regards to specific celebrities you like for example, Chef Ashanti, they have a loudhailer chef with me and Mr. Lauder and other Aloma and so on. But it was a whole different culture. Obviously, back then there was no Instagram, no Facebook, nothing of that nature. Your passion to be with the chef is just really genuine. You just want to be with them to learn from them today. Just want to take a picture with them. So tell us about this right now. How is that
different? How can we defeat this kind of culture? Yeah, it's one of the evils that we're in the root
This evil is not new. But the way it's been manifested via Facebook and Instagram and iPhones, right? I mean, those of you that are above the age of 30, there was a time when you didn't have a camera in your pocket. Yeah, there was a time like that. Yeah, I know. It's unbelievable. Like that, you know, and, and we actually, we actually, you know,
so the notion of now, when I, I'll give you one simple example, when you started teaching with your mother and whatnot, long time ago, how many years ago, people would come to our gatherings and come to ask me questions. Towards the end of my tenure, within multilib, people would come and want to take a selfie with me.
Like, I began to notice the quality of the crowd is different. Now. They don't want to ask, they just want to update their Facebook or I was with the chef. And at some level, I understand and maybe, you know, maybe for some young kids and whatnot, that they have somebody they look up to, and, and that person is a person that, Okay, I see the benefit. But once you've got beyond 17 1819, once you're a young man, and you're still wanting to take the selfie and not there, then we need to rethink through, you know, you know, it's a partnership, I want to also show the transformation that we wouldn't go we went through as teachers as well to like, I remember that whole selfie culture
Replacing the autograph culture. So when I was 31, and my kids and students after the class, they would come with their book, say, could you please You know, sign signing for me. And when we do that, out of respect out of your love for them, and so and so, but then came the phones and the cameras and ever wants to take a picture with you. So at the very beginning, I remember, we were so and that was gone like an unspoken policy among the teachers have a medal of honor, don't do it. Because we don't want the people to be attached to you as a person. So therefore, if someone asked to take a selfie with you, or take a picture with you, we politely decline and say, No, we're not.
We're not the people who should be really looking up to this and that is and so, but then somehow a few years later, it was misinterpreted badly. Like so look at you being so arrogant, you know, too good to take picture with you, blah, blah, blah. And they're just like, come on, man. Take the picture. Let's go. And then when you do take the picture, all these celebrities shoe, all they do is take pictures any there's no winning. There's no one there's no winning. So we either ways, it's necessary evil like how the change happened. Our society I have said this multiple times. I cringe when people ask for selfies to this date, even though when they ask I swallow my cringe worthy stuff
and smile for the people and whatnot. Because all I remember is the profitsystem was always smiling and kind but see the selfie culture isn't smiling and kind. The selfie culture I'll be honest, is a narcissistic culture. You are not coming for the Baraka and saying said I'm why they come in love. You're coming to post a picture so that other people can praise you for being in that gathering. You see the difference between genuinely coming and thanks and why they come to look at you know, may Allah bless you, nice to meet you. And I'll say the same to you versus Hey, well picture. That picture is not for the Salaam. It's for other people to know where you were and to then praise you
all, Mashallah, you're with the chef and the whole culture. I don't like it at the same time. For years, we would say no, and that backfired as well. And now we're saying yes, and that's also backfiring right now as the other forms out to get a picture right away.
But last question, what's one of those hardest issues that we have to admit to not all these teachers, not all of us as teachers, obviously, our
whole hold to the standard really have
overwhelming knowledge and so forth. And some people they sometimes get disappointed with some of us and some of the students have knowledge. But what advice do you give the people when it comes to these situations? Never ever link your Eman to a living personality. Never link your Eman to a living personality if you must choose somebody who's passed away and better than this. Choose the Prophet Muhammad SAW that said I'm always as a role model. Living people always remember they have a side you don't know.
And they have realities. And since you're not aware of I'll take the good and ask Allah to avert knowledge of the bad from them. Simple as that. Never link your Eman to a living person you Mama shaffir He said, I never raised a person above his rank, except that he then ended up falling down below his actual rank when I discovered more about him. The problem was you when you raised him on the pedestal, and when you realize he's not worthy of that pedestal has he comes crashing down below what he should be. Because you're the one who placed him higher up. He should be in a particular place. But you kept on pumping him up on being up until you realized he's a human we studied with at
hamdulillah so many Messiah. When we studied with them, we saw the good and the bad
We saw there in and we saw their irritation and frustration and anger as well, and that humanized them for us. And our love for them is a love that is based upon a reality of their knowledge. I remember once I said something and somebody irritatingly said, Oh, your own chef, Chef, Chef, whatever with him, he says something else, you know, as if to refute me. I said, Please, don't quote me share with me. I love him and respect him more than you ever could. You have an image of him that is mythical. You never met him, you never sat with him, you've constructed an imaginary image of the ship. And I know him way better than you possibly could, because I was an entire summer with him.
And my love is based upon a knowledge of his good and also his human side. Whereas Your love is a mythical lover constructed love. So the point is that you have to be careful all of you to put a share Kannada with audible and above his level. Because if you do so, you're going to end up harming your own image and your own. Because what has happened when people did this, and then a share fell or a student knowledge slipped. And we're all humans, we're all humans. And 100 people like us know this, because we study with Rama and we saw their humanity. But when you don't have that touch and link, you start exaggerating. And you know, I'm still I have so many anecdotes, but he The other day
I was in Kroger's, right? Yes, my wife does send me to to pick up some stuff once in a while. I was in Kroger's. And one lie. This brother was like staring at me. Is that is that shift? Yeah, I said, I was like, Yes, I do come shopping to Kroger's, you know, like, there's nothing. It's just shocked to see me there. What what version Do you have I take my own trash out. Sometimes I do occasionally wash the dishes, not as much as my wife would like me to but yes, I do do that. What not? I mean, I know you do. Okay, Michelle is but also your wife is sitting here so you have a reason to. Okay.
So my point is that this notion that you don't think we get angry, you don't think we're free? You don't think we fall short? Sometimes. So don't link your emotion to personalities? And if you find something from your teacher that is incorrect or what not assess overall, is it a personal sin? a one off vice that shallow you can overlook? Or is it really a flaw that damages all the knowledge because here's another point, what that person taught you wasn't coming from him it was from Allah and His messenger.
What that person taught you was beyond him. Why is your linkage with Islam being harmed when you discover a flaw in the messenger between you and then you get my point here, right? So flutter back down to earth humanize us take the good and ask Allah to protect you from from the bat I want to mention some a little bit difference between our time and the past because our the man the class they also preach the same thing exactly the same message that you're talking about that hey, listen, make sure that you you you realize that we're humans we make mistakes we do this we do that to the extent that one of the other man once said cada loca de novia llama qadiani jellison.
If since if since causes causes a stench or a bad smell, no one was there sitting with us.
Let no be able to be present with because we will stink. Because that's what it means to be a human you make mistakes. The difference though is that back then falling into the sins and mistakes and so forth can easily be covered and concealed. Today you live a long trail of digital mistakes and errors and and this and that people can take videos people can record this that a lot of a lot of issues. So it's so hard for people really to to not to be discovered sometimes along stance and protect the server. I mean, all of us. The idea is that people who idolize these Messiah answers have knowledge and they love them so much beyond what they deserve. as being human, these teachers
only mediums to give them the knowledge that will hopefully inshallah increase their connection with Allah subhanho wa Taala. So Allah
keep us all truth or teachings are behind me on how to give a genuine to the element of brand. I mean, we ask Allah subhana wa to give us that knowledge that is beneficial to us in the dunya and in the alpha and make us among those who pursue the heart and follow it and that which is wrong and stay away from a job or enemy. I would like to open a shout out to the floor for q&a if anyone has a question chef Bismillah give us your questions.
You'll feel alone but
really thought much about the quality of the components and
the quality that he has required to increase the way you deploy them as a product. They will
bring the best
like the question is basically he's saying that he grew up in Saudi Arabia. So he's speaking here is all a man who speak about the prophets of Allah Salaam. They don't necessarily speak about the depth of his knowledge to spread that around. Versus, you know, speaking about some of the etiquettes of the prophets of Allah. So how can we combat that? That false notion about the prophets, Allah set them to spread the best of it? And the best, of course, in order sola, sola, what do you answer to this? First of all, I think there's an assumption in the question, if you don't mind me on it, overlook the assumption maybe that was your experience, okay. It could be,
I would honestly recommend, one of the simplest things to do is to read the Hadith of the Prophet system about a clock. And the best book, without a doubt is the other side the haina. Remember, no, we just start reading what did the process of himself do and what he advised us to do? This book is an amazing book that Allah has blessed him with no way to write it is the most respected book of headache after his 40 ideas in a way, and it's all about o'clock, it's all about the process of advising a simple day to day o'clock. And the good amazing thing about this book, by and large, you don't need a chef to benefit I'm not gonna say chef can benefit you more, of course you can. But you
can read the book on your own and benefit immensely, what I strongly advise all of you have this book on your nightstand or whatever, before you go to sleep, 510 minutes, just read a page. And then everyday do that. And your love for the Prophet system. So for me any going through college of heavy studying a Hadith of the Prophet system, it was my favorite subject, and that we did the old trick. And we did all six books, just to be in that class and go over every Hadeeth is an anecdote in the life of the Prophet everybody, right? But of course, you can't open up the classics, because difficult due to the sort of pain, and it's going to be a double buy one, get one free, you will
study a hadith about other and you will also study the zero because every head is what is it? It's an episode, a snapshot of the life of the Prophet says and what he said. That's my simple advice. No. Anyone else? Any questions? Good.
So like, when did the question In summary, when did you realize that you're no longer a student? You're a teacher now is like, wow, like, was there any specific event in your life that made you feel that? Well, I'm a teacher now. In my case, it was a very gradual transition. Even though I was physically teaching from my first year in Medina, I would come back in the summers 1995 96. And I would teach every single summer. And I even did radio programs and the first satellite channels in 2000 2001. went to Egypt to record and whatnot. I was teaching constantly, but I was teaching as a student What that means is I'm regurgitating what my teachers have taught me. Okay, I'm literally
cutting and pasting and compiling, and teaching. And when I returned to America 2005, our first classes with McGrew, were basically basically cut and paste of what we had done with a little bit of flavoring, but it was cut and paste. But as you teach the cut and paste curriculum, that is when you begin to realize, hey, I need to add a section that I didn't really study in Medina, you know, I'll give you a classic example. Responding to atheist arguments. Medina didn't teach me new atheism. Medina didn't teach me Darwin and Darwinism. It didn't teach me you know,
how to respond to the morality, the existence of God via morality, or you know, the existence of you, this is all stuff I have to do on my own. So you really feel like Oh, my God. And I remember thinking, I can't even quote even pay me and Bill Pay him, how am I going to do this? They didn't talk about these issues, right? I really felt like alone, what am I going to do? And then I realized, you know what, that's what I need to do.
Praise the thorah ask Allah for tofu, Kenya, Daya. And then go for it. So it was for me a gradual process to realize that from what I had, I needed to go beyond what I had. And it took a while because, as I said, the vacuum of the students and the constant pressuring and whatnot, that's what forces you to rethink and to come forth with something and you realize, now I'm an actual teacher in this field, but you're always a student by the way, we will remain students till we die. You know, no local aka the sisters any question.
Okay, have a question.
You have to speak up a little bit.
Okay, so the question is that our mother, a mother is asking that
if she wants to send her son overseas to study? Well, Should she sent overseas? Or should she send locally, I actually will have an answer that perhaps will not, you will find it a little bit surprising. Parents, do not live your dreams through your children.
Do not live your dreams through your children.
Because if you do so,
a higher probability is that those dreams will backfire. And your children will resent you.
Nobody could have forced me to go to Medina nobody
to go through what I went through. And Allah knows that he knows a little bit my story and I know his story as well. The trials and the tribulations and the fit and and the difficulties and whatnot. It had to come from the heart. It had to come from I wanted it. And I wanted it with a passion that comes from inside. I know students that were sent to Medina, not from America, nobody says back then nobody from other countries, Muslim majority countries, their parents forced them. They were the laziest, the worst, the most bad, adapt, and they will do things in the holy city that will shock you, because they're not there for their own reasons. They're there because their father, their
mother had a dream, and they didn't do the dream. And they want to live that dream to their kids. I'm very blunt, I have 100 and have four children. Three of them are teenagers. What exactly above a teenager? No, I know what it being a parent is like, Don't force your children
to do an advanced degree or studies of Islam, that you yourself didn't do. What were you doing at 19? Let me ask you. So you think your son in this environment is going to be 10 steps ahead of you.
It's not going to happen. You give him good encouragement, and say, Look, and this is what you should do as parents, from the beginning, you know, make sure that they have some good tarbiyah o'clock Koran, go to hell and whatnot, and then encourage them, give them ideas, hey, if you want to study full time, I'm going to help you, you know, by the time we get to 1516, they're really serious about this, you know, incentivize them more by the time they're really able to decide that is when it has to come from their heart and not yours, and lay it out for them saying, Hey, you know what, it's always been my desire and dream, you go and study full time. And if you do so, well, we're
going to be proud of you. But you're going to have to want to do this yourself, and we'll help you, we'll support you, etc, etc. But you have to want to do it. And if not, then you know, Hamdulillah, whatever you decide, as long as you're good person, you have to give them that encouragement. I know of people who forced their kids to go to madrasahs field schools and what not, and it ended up backfiring, especially in this modern culture, especially in this day and age. So I'm going to be very blunt here, don't force your children to do these types of things unless they want to do it, especially when it involves leaving family and going overseas, Allahu Allah, I share the same, of
course, you know, response in that regard. However, I want to mention, one thing here is that in order for you to send your kids, if you send them that, as a matter of fact, you have to make sure that to avoid some of the mistakes that happened with students from the past, who spend more time there for many, many years before they came to the US, I would recommend that they come on during the summertime to come over here to practice some of that knowledge, so that they would never really forget about their culture. The problem is that when they spend all their zoos over there in Medina for years, five years, six years, they just forget about, you know, the culture of the country and
the land when they come back over here. So therefore, you're gonna have to give them for at least a year of cultural quarantine, before they can get federal before they can start giving given halaqaat to the rules and so on. They need to live here first. So they can now realize okay, whatever answer I should give it within the context of the culture of our town, quick question coming from online artists on YouTube. That's Dr. Either saying actually, how can the Council of North America issue complimentary fat was that guy's the political stance on matters such as abortion, vaccination, gender issues and so forth in timely manner, to be able to have these white papers in such important
subjects? How can you help us with that? So I am a part of the full Council. And unfortunately, we are understaffed and over overtax with the amount of questions that come in as you can understand, there is no major funding going on it is that we have our internal you know, logistical issues where all the
in different parts of the country, however, we do have two annual meetings, one online and one in site or on site to have a pre copy, we'll do that. And we decide the fatawa that are the most relevant to our communities. And so for example, the Bitcoin network was released last year as well detail for a while Bitcoin, by the way, is permissible in sha Allah with some conditions. So you know, these are things that are that we don't want to reinvent the wheel, we're not going to answer questions about Philip or sanogo. Ask any chef for that the purpose of these councils is to get fatawa of a modern nature, to get fatawa that are relevant to our societies and community. So our
next meeting, I'll tell you about this, I mean, it's it's not private, but now there's a public inshallah next month, or is it? No, yeah, I think a month and a half. Our next meeting is an entire session about the transgender issue. these are these are cutting edge issues. There are no easy answers. What do you do if somebody has done the surgery, and now they say that he becomes she or it becomes Entergy or whatever. What are you going to do? Where does this person pray?
Are they classified as this or that? What if there haven't done the surgery? But they say they're going to do it? Is it hell out or not? And they say this is my identity and whatnot. These are very difficult questions to answer. And you're not going to find classical fatawa about trans post op and pre op and whatnot. These are again as you're aware, there's all the modern phenomenon. So we're gonna have a whole day seminar a whole session and this these are the type of dogs that we're doing. I agree, we're not doing it fast enough. But inshallah we hope slowly but surely that that changes inshallah. JOHN are the last question. Want to see from the back actually, anybody from the sisters?
That's a very sensitive topic.
When our share so the brother is asking that were there international scholars from bucks on other places in Medina. So when the University of Medina opened in 1962 63,
all of the teachers weren't on Saudi, except for the athlete, the teachers. All of them were from other lands, and they had great aroma from Sudan from Egypt from Pakistan. Sheikh Abdullah Fahd has sent the father so he has sent in England his father, Shahada photo Mojave Desert from his little brother and hamdulillah. taught in Medina Shekhar Advani came from Jordan, from Syria, he taught in Medina. So the first 2030 years this is before our time, this isn't the 60s 70s and 80s. Medina has gone through its phases like every Institute and like every Masjid like every community does. So it has its phase of a difference street if you like, then the gulf war happened 1991.
And everything changed the first Gulf War, everything changed. And one of the things that changed is that the current government at that time, the king at that time decided we're going to Saudi eyes, everything.
And so instantaneously by now she had enrolled one signature, and the entire foreign stuff was basically said my saddam
and I got accepted when
the Saudi rate was 99%. Remember that 9095 99%? I studied with over 100 teachers in my actual classes, forget the hat. I'm in the I'm talking to the classes because I stood 10 years, I mean, seven years of classes in Medina, actual classes and three years of dissertation, I studied with over 100 teachers.
Exactly. Two were non Saudi.
And they were some of the best By the way, those two. Lucky mine were also this muscle. What do you do? You didn't get one even then so that's the thing that before my graduation, I attended the graduation ceremony at the time. It was the last year for the Dean of the German what year what year exactly in 95? I believe so I got accepted 95. That's when you got accepted. I was about to graduate. Yes. So they're the the dean he was serving his last year after 12 years working in the University of Medina as the Dean of university. Now they call these the current president now they call them money, director. So the President was actually standing there one of the Emir of Medina
and Prince Mohammed, Allah, the rest of the king, the old basically, were there. And I'm looking around me, the vast majority of the graduates are non Saudis, because a percentage of the Saudis are small and the diversity. However, he was speaking in front of the mirror was saying that, you know, you're proud to announce that the plan to nationalize the university is working. And under his leadership, he is proud to say that the faculty of Sharia is 100% sold
The Faculty of Hadith was 99%. So the Saudis the Quran school was 96%. So these other faculties and so on, so for us, we're 100% Mashallah, Mashallah. Now there's good and bad to it. The bad side of that kind of like system, unfortunately, is that the vast majority of the teachers, not the vast majority, all the teachers and Matter of fact, all the teachers that we started with at the University of Medina and colitis, Sharia
were graduates of Medina University themselves.
So kind of like recycling the system, basically. So we didn't have teachers from us or from Malaysia from eat from this place, or that place who could, who could bring with them their new expertise. It's all the same recycling of the teaching system. That's why there wasn't like Jeff mentioned, we did not really study much outside of just the textbook and information. This is the biggest issue of many systems, they're self replicating. There's no original thought. Right. And as I said, the irony of ironies, the most successful graduates of all of these Institute's whether it's the room that they opened, or as the most successful, globally, are those that break away from their systems,
while they respect to systems, they move beyond that they realize the oma is more than their one system, right? And the way to get to that quickly, is by having diverse teachers, but unfortunately, most schools don't want teachers from other philosophies, right? You understand what I'm saying here, right? Your methodology, your highway, your car, everybody has do the exact same. So then how are you going to expose to the real world right so this is one of our negatives that everybody's on the same wavelength
and the world is not on the same wavelength. So the motorcycle offer was really a pleasure having this conversation with you brought so many beautiful memories Mashallah and emotional moments for me as well too. I'm sure it's for you too. And I hope inshallah for the dear brothers and sisters or whether watching with us or attending with us over here that you guys, at least you learn inshallah, that journey, to start studying the deen of Allah subhanho wa Taala begins, you know, from within. And then on that journey, there will be a lot of stations love ups and downs and a lot of experiences. But the most valuable thing that you inshallah you will get out of this experience is
charting your own course afterwards. With that knowledge and that experience and mentorship and connection with their element shallow dialogue, you will notice that the solution is to say one thing before we finish off 1995 my first semester in Medina and I was, you know, alone, a Bachelor of difficult time and whatnot. I became very close friends with a British student called photos. And for us to have to introduce you to my roommate. He's an amazing guy, so Okay, hello. So go over. his roommate was shipped out Subaru just
1995 maybe November, December. What do you remember? Remember this one?
You don't remember at all. Tell us I was there? See, look, just feels like so we went to, you know, for us zoom. And, you know, Chicago bridges was there. We sat down. You gave a shy at that time. Okay, you made you're shy with the thing that we had a good talk, you told me about tolerable. You told me about because your castle graduated the year that I got accepted. We overlapped one year 1995 I got accepted the beginning. He finished 95. And he came back so that and then we had a few more conversations. And I remember the last conversation I had is that, you know, I heard that because at the time you were come from Kuwait. I didn't know you're going back to America, because
you hadn't lived in America. Until then, when I found out he's coming to America. So in the house on me and him we sat down this is the end, maybe like main 96 now, right before you left me 96 right. We sat down in the house. And you know, we had a little bit of a conversation about America and what he's going to be facing in America. Do you remember that one or that two is? Yeah, yeah. So so panela and I was so happy that Shasta was coming back because we didn't have put up with Michelle we didn't have them you know, and to hear that she has ever just is coming back and Mashallah he is the top of the shediac College and he studied well and you know, well known and whatnot that would made
my heart so happy. Well, I had no idea that we would end up working for the same Institute for 10 years or more Okay, and then becoming very close friends because back then we were acquaintances in Medina in one year overlap, and then rocheleau becoming even closer friends and then becoming competing massage in the face of Allah, you know, copying us man
living in the same city with masajid close by law was done. So what have they learned 100
plus your knowledge and your family's MLS puppet Bala.
Jimmy. Shout out that we'll see you next week for another conversation at vrsc Sha. Allah salaam aleikum wa warahmatullah wabarakatuh