Channel: The Deen Show
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Everybody watch the show shows without him to the last lawmaking piece be on two very, very exciting show today, a very, very important topic was America founded as a Christian nation, some people might have you believe that it was, in actuality it wasn't. And we're gonna be talking to a Christian scholar from the Harvard Divinity School. Dr. Gerald Dirks, when we come back here on a D show, don't go nowhere. He
is His Messenger.
One, Jesus was his messenger.
Why did that maybe, maybe it's just to break the ice. Salaam Alaikum. Peace be with you, and peace with you, brother. I greet you with the greetings of Jesus. Moses in the last and final messages of the man kind of problem hung peace be upon him. And all of them, all of them? Yes. And they are greeted with this this greeting piece. Yeah, it's in the Bible, isn't it? Oh, yes. Yeah. And in fact, you know, we look at the Jews, they still say Shalom, Shalom, which is peace. Yeah. And we say Salaam, which is peace, which derives it's in Islam. And so we're striving to have peace with our greater peace with ourselves and peace with humanity. Correct. And that's why we're here doing this
program, because Sharing is caring. Absolutely. And we're trying to share and there is a lot of misinformation. So unless we sit with people of knowledge, such as yourself, we're not going to learn. So the million dollar question now, was America actually founded as a Christian state? No, it's not. But But before we get into that, let me go back to your introduction a little bit ago, I took my master's degree in divinity from Harvard Divinity School, I'm not affiliated with Harvard Divinity School. Yeah, at the current time.
No, United States was not founded as a Christian nation. And we can demonstrate this in several different ways. First of all, we can look at the religious beliefs of the majority common folk of America at the time of this country's founding. Secondly, we can look at the religious beliefs of the founding fathers of America. Thirdly, we can look at the official documents of the various states and of the United States in particular. But let's start with the religious beliefs of the American public at large at the time this country was founded. Now, those people who would say America was founded as a Christian nation would have you believe, you know that there was a great
majority of Christians in this country at the beginning. In fact, if we look, during the colonial period, the most optimistic estimates are that only 15%, that's one 515 percent of the majority white population had membership in a Christian church, only only 15% 2%. during the colonial period, we can break it down more specifically,
in New England, about 15%, and membership at a Christian church, in the middle colonies that fell down to around 7%. And then the south, that percentage was even lower. Now, bear in mind that we're talking only about church membership of the majority white population, if we include in our population figures, African American and African slaves, and American Indians at that time period, those percentages would go down even further, because those are only for the white majority adult population at that time.
So what was the typical belief system? What was it? Yes, okay. Basically, it was a primitive animism, it was a mixture of superstition and sort of primitive magical beliefs, in which people practiced and believed in divination. VSC are stones and divining rods, fortune telling palmistry, astrology, incantations, and spells a great deal of belief in terms of spirits who hid treasures of various mountains and hills and guarded them and needed all sorts of magical incantations to locate the treasure etc. So it was a primitive form of animism basically, and superstition that was common among the majority population. Now among the intellectual
leap, we run into something very different. Among the intellectual elite, we confront deism.
Now, deism was a religious belief that grew out of the European enlightenment.
They believe that there was an M personal Creator God, who basically established the rational universe and then left it. Your hands off from that point. Yeah. So yeah, one God, but a god that was totally impersonal and didn't interact with creation. Is that figured out on your own? Figure it out on your own? This is illogical. This isn't make sense. Yeah. So there's an impersonal God, they typically believe that there was life after death, and rewards and punishments would be distributed according to one's deeds and works on Earth.
Certainly, they denied the Trinity, they deny the divinity of Jesus. And usually they denied any any revelation from God. And what point was this about in history what, again, this was very popular movement among the intellectual elite from the time of the European enlightenment on into the early 19th century here in America. Okay, so you're at a you said 15%, in the rest are believing these beliefs, either primitive animism, that'd be the majority of the common folk. And among the intellectual elite, deism was flourishing.
And we can see that particularly in terms of the founding fathers of America, because by and large, they were representing the intellectual elite.
You know, in our last presidential election, one of the candidates made a comment and said, You know, I don't think I could have vote for anyone for president who wasn't a Christian. Yes. It's interesting to note for whom this person would not have voted, tell us, because none, none of our first seven presidents belong to a church upon becoming president of this country. None of them the first seven, none of the first seven, and none of the first six were Orthodox Christian. So let's so the first seven, what starting with George Washington, George Washington was a deist was a deist. He was a deist. He wasn't a Christian. No, he denied the resurrection and divinity of Jesus, George
Washington. George was president. Yes. And people can check this up and verify Oh, yeah. Now the second one, I know that let's stick with Washington to show you how far it goes. Tell him now Washington's wife did go to church, she she was a Christian. And Washington being a good husband occasionally accompany his wife to church. But we have recorded in the history, that when they started to do Holy Communion, or the Eucharist, as it's called, and Christian worship service, Washington would get up from his Pew and walk out of the church. He walked out, walk out and wait for his wife outside because he courted document. Yes, he refused to participate in it. Yeah. So
that's George Washington. Let's look at our second president, john adams. Yes. john adams was an early Unitarian. He denied the Trinity deny the divinity of Jesus. That's the same everything that we as Muslims do. Yeah. Now, he unfortunately went further. And he denied that there was such a thing as eternal damnation.
He denied the concept of original sin. And he denied the concept of vicarious atonement for sin. Yeah. So this is hardly an Orthodox Christian. He sounds more like in tune with what Islam is about. Absolutely. Some
eternal damnation. Yeah, with the exception. Absolutely. Absolutely. And in fact, Adams had some rather negative comments to make about American Bible Societies. And let me read a quote to you please tell it from from Adams.
And I'm quoting word for word here. This is from a letter he wrote to Stephen school in May on May 30 18 22nd, president of the united second President of the United States, Bible Societies have been invented by deeper politicians still, to divert mankind from the study in pursuit of their natural rights.
I wish societies were formed in India, China, and Turkey, to send us dropped us translations of their sacred books.
Here's a second precedent, a few types of states Wow. saying, you know, I wish those Muslims over there in Turkey, when send us some free translations of the Quran, the second President of the United States. Now someone's like, hold up, hold up this guy just making this stuff up. What do you got to say about that? We could check it out. There's a book that I would recommend people get if they question this. It's called Faith of our father's religion and the new nation, published by Harper and row in 1987 s by s gostar. So the information is there. It's in the public domain.
Okay, let's take a break there. And we're gonna be back with more here with Dr. Gerald Dirks, right back. He is.
Coming to the truth requires two things. It requires deep thinking that you've already done, but it requires another step. And that's courage. If you have the truth, but you don't have courage, you won't stand up for the truth. And that's as good as standing up for falsehood.
I would say this thing that you just told me, it's not in the Scripture, and they would say a marginal note added by a scribe. Yeah, okay. We know that. And I'd be thinking, if you know, this is not the Bible. Why are you preaching it as if it's gospel truth?
I am not afraid to say
I am not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
millions of innocent men, women and children since the introduction of Christianity have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. Yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion to make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites, Thomas Jefferson, founding father, during almost 15 centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial? What has been its fruits more or less in all places, pride and indulgence in the clergy, ignorance and civility in the laity? In both superstition, bigotry, and persecution. James Madison, I have found Christian dogma unintelligible early in life I absented
myself from Christian assemblies. lighthouses are more helpful than churches. Benjamin Franklin, the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, john adams. Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous the batteries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than we call it the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that is served to corrupt and brutalized mankind. Back here on the deen show, we love our brothers in humanity. And we care. That's why we share and we're reaching out
to all of the people all around the globe. And one of the myths is that America was founded as a Christian state. And that is a myth. Absolutely. So now, it's a total myth. Yeah. And we left off with presidents of the United States, and you mentioned six or seven of them. Let's continue on, we left off. We talked about George Washington and john adams, and we can turn to Thomas Jefferson. But before we go to Thomas Jefferson, where you left off is interesting that the quote he was saying that they should send us some
word for word is he was saying, I wish societies were formed in India, China and Turkey, to send us gratis translations of their sacred books. Well, Turkey, that's Muslims, that would be the Quran and the Quran is the verbatim Word of God. Yes, you should read the Quran. take advice from the second president, United States. Continue more, please. Okay. Well, let's turn to the third President Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson, at Jefferson, again, was a deist. He was not a Christian. In fact, he had some really anti christian comments. The third president, the third President, for example, he called the Trinity a, and I'm quoting here, Hocus Pocus, Phantasm of a god. This is the President of
the United States and then went on to call the Trinity near Abracadabra.
These are the words of Thomas Jefferson. He didn't say it. I didn't say no, no. Whatever said this is what Jefferson said. And then he compared the believers in the Trinity to mentally ill patients in Bedlam, Thomas Jefferson Thomas, former president of the United States, President of the United States. Yeah. Okay. Continue on fourth president Anyone else? You know, Jefferson referred to the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible. And again, I'm quoting directly from Thomas Jefferson. He is saying it was, quote, merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy or capable of explanation. They in the incoherencies of our own nightly dreams, who has no meaning admits no
explanation. Yeah. So Jefferson, not only was not a Christian, he was actually anti christian. Yeah, as we can see from
comments that and I want to stress this that he made
that we as Muslims are not making. We're not thinking Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States may Yeah, in his own personal attacks against Christianity. So Jefferson a deist. Yeah, Washington was a deist. Adams was an early Unitarian. James Madison, fourth president, once again, a deist.
Benjamin Franklin, one of our founding fathers, a deist. Thomas Paine, who wrote the common sense, the pamphlet that probably, you know, provoked American Independence was a deist. fn Allen was a deist. john quincy adams, our sixth President of the United States, who was a Unitarian,
who refused. Most people are going to be shocked by this, refuse to take his oath of office on a Bible insisting instead that he places here not a book of US law. Wow. So was there these are amazing facts that many people don't know about. But they're all recorded. They're all out there.
America was not founded as a Christian nation, period period. We can look at some early state and then constitutions and declarations of rights, etc.
Now there was there was great variation among the 13 original colonies and states in terms of their specific state constitutions. But it's interesting to note that out of the original 13, there was only one that established Christianity as a state religion, and that was South Carolina. And then they were establishing only Protestant Christianity as a state religion.
But on the flip side, many of the early state constitutions banned Christian ministers from holding political office. So Delaware, its constitutions of 1776 and 1792, Georgia, in 1777, and again in 1789, and 1798, Kentucky in 1792, New York in 1777, North Carolina and 1776, South Carolina and 1778, even though they established Protestant Christianity, as the state religion, Tennessee in 1796, in Virginia in 1786, all banned Christian ministers from holding political office, not founded on a Christian. So just to make a go on a tangent for a second, we as ones who have submitted to the one God, the same way, Jesus, Moses and Abraham, the messages submitted to the one guy, that's all
we're trying to do. We're not anti christ. No, no, no, no. And and again, you know, the the comments that were made by Jefferson, made by Adams, those are those their comments. You know, I quoted them, but they're not my comments. Yes. They're Jefferson's comments. They're Adams comment, because we can't be Muslims unless we love Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and as Muslims, we do not attack other religions as well. You know, the Quran in the second chapter, has this wonderful statement about freedom of religion. Yeah. Where it says, Let there be no compulsion in religion, yes. Period.
And it also says, doesn't God Almighty saying to bring forth your evidence if you're claiming the truth. So if you say something, now we're saying, hold on, this is not true of you're saying that America which we love, we live in it and respect to her law abiding citizens, and we share we care. And now if you're saying that it was founded on a Christian nation, we're saying hold on is not the case. And we're bringing forth the evidence to prove it. Sure. Yeah. And will you look at the official documents of the United States of America as well?
Yeah, read the Declaration of Independence. There's not one mention of Jesus Christ in the Declaration of Independence anywhere. It doesn't sound like a Christian nation, read the Constitution.
There's no mention of Jesus Christ, or even of God, and the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence. When there is a reference to God, it's usually in the impersonal terms of the deists. You know, nature's God, quote, unquote, their Creator, quote, unquote, supreme judge of the world, quote, unquote, these were catchphrases of the deists. And these are the terms that we see appearing in the Declaration of Independence.
Continue on Tell us more, please, this is very, very enlightening and interesting. Well, in terms of the Constitution, as I mentioned, there's no reference to God whatsoever, and the Constitution, but how about our pledge allegiance? Well Pledge of Allegiance. Later, much later, much, much later. We're not talking about the founding of the country, but we're talking about the Pledge of Allegiance. The Constitution tells us
In other words, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, as well as laws that are passed by Congress, and official treaties, which the United States has entered into. And with that in mind, there's one treaty in particular, that we need to look at which one which is the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. Now, this treaty was drafted. When George Washington was still president.
It was unanimously approved by the United States Senate. That was the last time the United States Senate was unanimous about anything. But this treaty was unanimously approved by the United States Senate, and was signed by President john adams, our second president. Now what makes this treaty so special, in terms of our present discussion, is the 11th article. And, again, let me just read it verbatim.
Article 11, as the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of muscleman Muslims. And as said, states never entered into any way or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation. It is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. This was Tripoli, what today we would call Morocco. And the United States, the Treaty of 1797.
Direct statement as the government of the United States of America is not in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. Now, this was an official treaty of the United States. This was the law of the land. Yeah, according to the Constitution, saying right here that it was no, it was not as a Christian nation. Furthermore, drafted under Washington, unanimously approved by the United States Senate, there wasn't one senator, who voted against this because of this article, not one, not one, it was unanimous. So why don't people push this idea as an attempt to rewrite history? You know, it's an attempt to rewrite history. people focus on things like the pilgrims coming to America, or
Catholics coming to America and the middle colonies, etc, Quakers coming to Pennsylvania, etc. And they say, Well, you know, this was established as a Christian nation. Yeah. But what they fail to realize is that in almost all of these cases, these Christian groups that were coming to America, were fleeing from religious persecution in Europe, and who was persecuting them in Europe? Who other Christians, other Christians were persecuting? Sure. And so they were fleeing to the America. They wanted to distance yet Muslims were persecuted. Oh, no, wasn't Muslims? Yeah. It was other Christians were persecuted. Wow. And so even those who weren't Christians wanted to make sure that
you were not setting up any kind of a theocracy in this country. Yeah, they wanted that great division between church and state, but isn't unknown through history. This is another topic of itself that Muslim Jews and Christians when Muslims ruled they were living in peace, as well, in most places. Yeah. You know, and Muslim andaluza would be the shining example of that. That's amazing. Where can people get ahold of you if they want to invite you to come and give a big lecture on this topic or any other topics, they can contact me my website, which is Dirks online books, that's all one word Dirks online books.com. And that's dirt. dir, KS. Thank you so much. May God
Almighty the creator rewards you for being with us. Thank you so much.
And we got to clear another misconception and another myth out there and all it took was for you to tune into the deen show and continue tuning in to learn more about this beautiful way of life and other important facts from history today in time, and other things that will enlighten you brighten you and maybe even cause you to come into join the family of over 1.5 billion across the world. If you'd like to read the verbatim Word of God to learn more of Islam dial the number on the screen one 800 662 as long and we hope to see you again next time here on the D show we started with please we end with peace, peace be unto you Salaam like
he created the universe.
Along the heavens and the earth.
He is the
He's the owner. He
He sent His messenger
a great danger,
there is nothing greater