Shadee Elmasry – NBF 179 Post Debate RecapAnalysis
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salam ala Rasulillah while he was so happy woman Wella welcome
everybody to the Safina society nothing but facts live stream on
the morning after a an evening in Los Angeles that was I get really
raucous towards the end. And I felt right that at the end there
the room was really raucous and I felt raucous like I felt like the
there was a lot of energy in the room. And people were really
stunned at the end there when it came down to Jesus is God the
Messiah is Messiah God. And if you watch the debate, the topic of the
debate had nothing to do with that the topic of the debate was
something that's really not even a debate for us but yet gotta
address these things when they come up because we can strengthen
our own knowledge on on how to answer these basic things. Think
about society.
We never had to answer is a man or a woman as a woman a man you never
had to answer this, the scholars today in our time that are living
that are much to hit that in the nebula that our movies have said
we had never researched the head of a man versus a woman the head
meaning the limit, like what is the definition of holy shatter?
What is the statement? Right that separates that that truly what is
the definition of a men in this video?
Okay, they said we never researched until this era.
So the basics are being questioned and attacked and therefore they
have to be researched. That's why at our websites if he decided dot
o RG and right if I could ask you to kindly put that in the comment
section. So if you decided dot o RG forward slash first pillar,
you can find some basic arguments. But most importantly, you find all
that I get
an Amen But Russell is where we get all of them in Islam, that
we're not even saying that we are we, as we said yesterday was not
doubt in the sense of we're trying to convince you of Islam of the
Prophet. We're simply saying that our religion states, that belief
in the Prophet peace be upon him is fraught and wedge him. Okay.
Let me tell you something that that happened during the debate
and there is an ebb and flow of the debate that you never know
where it's gonna go or what's going to happen or in anything. I
mean, this is my first time having a formal debate, by the way. I
debate people all the time online, but this is the first time
actually having a formalized debate with somebody.
And
there's always you never know how it's gonna start how it's gonna
go. Is it staticky? Firstly, Hamdulillah we went in
how many guys? Did we have the right
20 People between?
Yeah,
we were like 1015 Guys. Then two New Jerseyans, a couple happened
to be in LA at the time two from mbyc From our convert class, they
showed up, we ended up being like 20 guys. Okay, and some people had
their wives with them.
I think there were probably a handful of people who are just
curious, and then he had his some of Javon
divots, family was there his I guess that was his wife and his.
His dad was there. And some people, I guess, from EMPAC, they
introduced themselves as being from his organization and back
there, the organization he, he's part of.
So, we got there early. And I felt like that was really important to
get a really good feel of the room and to see,
to get a feel of how things are gonna go. Now one thing, the first
thing that I really wanted to see, am I walking into something where
they're all alike in some kind of collusion. And that wasn't the
case at all.
One of the student organizers, if she had trouble sort of
remembering his name, which is I'm not saying that, like, she didn't
care about him or anything, but it just shows like there's just not a
group of friends. That's what I was worrying about. Am I going
into something where it's a group of friends that are they're all in
on this and like that, like the way we were? Right, and that
wasn't the case. It seems that Javon had just gotten moved to Los
Angeles, and even Dr. Krauss, who was really a friendly gentleman,
he was the arbitrator or he was the moderator, I should say, not
the arbitrator, the moderator of the it was a really friendly man
who works between academia and outside of academia like within
the Christian world and in the universities, okay, in his long
tenure, and he was
really nice from the start. We got to chit chat beforehand and
everything. So that was the first thing that I was wondering like,
had was really curious what it's going to be like, What am I
walking into? Are these all like a group
And he didn't really seem to have much of a group there, aside from
a couple family members and from his
one or two members of the organization. Now, there's another
thing about this is remember that that position itself does not
require a major commitment. Right? So any members of such a group,
it's going to be very hard for them to have a strong commitment
and zeal. Right? Because you're, you're basically
it's like a non committal position. Right? What's that?
Yeah, I mean, if you're if you're, if that hadith, if that is not
accepted, and the Prophet peace be upon what have you accepted?
There's not a lot to bind you together. Right? Think about this.
We went out there and what what do Muslims do? We went out there and
there were Muslims who I had seen online. I'm gonna my book, what's
his podcast called? We got to ask him.
Someone find out well, I'm gonna Brooks podcast was he was one of
our hosts, pretty much our main host on Wednesday, a guy I've seen
on the online, you meet a Muslim, there's so much that binds us
together through the teachings of the Prophet through Hadith,
which are looking for, oh, I kicked it over somewhere.
I just saw it literally right here and I kicked it. I probably put it
over there maybe or something like that.
So groups like like that, that are more on the non committal side.
They don't have a lot that binds them together. Right? And
therefore those bonds tend to not be nearly as strong
as Muslims, bonds when we're tied together with
rituals that we do together. So when I go out there, and I met
this chaplain of UCLA who's not an employee of UCLA, just for the
record, he's an employee of Institute of knowledge. i Okay.
She's one of the more active groups there and I wanted to meet
them, but I couldn't meet them.
So hey, moolah.
So head Mala? Yeah, so we met with suede medulla, the chaplain of
UCLA. On Tuesday night, he took us out.
Then I'm going to approve on Wednesday morning, we went up, you
meet Muslims online, immediately, boom, you're getting along,
because
our deen is the same. And I know exactly what the o'clock is going
to be. I know exactly what the salon is going to be like, there's
not too much relativity and vagueness. So that's the first
thing is that I was wondering, Am I going walking into some group
that's going to like dominate the room? And then I'm going to have
to wonder, think about that. That was not the case at all. Okay.
That was not the case at all. In fact, it was the opposite. The
room was definitely dominated by, you know, the people who believe
that the prophet is part of Islam. Right. There's low bar, as well.
Secondly, is that the,
his debate, there was one thing I thought he would bring in. And
there was another thing that I didn't think he was bringing,
like, if you're,
you got to plan for your opponent, right? So in my planning, and a
lot of us were involved. I took a lot of advice from people. I
didn't try to just do this alone. And all those people gave a lot of
great advice. I thank them.
I really couldn't have done it without them. They give critical
advice through the whole time.
I thought that he would bring up even Cena and the philosophers so
a lot of my presentation was involved with Yeah, he did. You
did bring them up that Yeah.
What about the molded he brought up at the end he brought up the
the philosophers and the Sufis are like oh wishy washy on the belief
and the Prophet peace be on him or they're open to the idea. How was
it when the Sufi are the exact opposite? Right?
So
I thought he will bring up and see in the end the philosophers and
that everything in the Quran is allegory.
We didn't even touch upon that he didn't bring it up at all, but
it's better to be over prepared and under but No, the other thing
which also
I didn't think it was totally relevant to the debate, but he did
bring it up heavily. It was a heavy part of his presentation is
essentially Orientalism. Right? The orientalists
the orientalist are basically non Muslim Western historians, who
apply very commonsensical methods to know what's true and what's
false, right. I mean, that's how simple it is. what's true and
what's false about the past.
Okay, now, it's no coincidence that all of their conclusions must
exclude the Hadith. Right? All their they arrive at one
conclusion with the exception of like one
renegade from amongst them. Who's what's his name?
What's his name again? Subhan. Allah. Yeah. So
that's like
the majority of their method ends up that they will accept anything
from an Islamic source. I'm saying their conclusion. Good. Because
you call yourself historical and critical, wonderful words method.
That means you have a methodology. That's all wonderful. But let's
zoom out a little bit. And look at that. You have one conclusion, you
all arrive at the same conclusion.
Harold masky. Thank you very much. Harold masky is a German atheist.
And he's like, whoa, guys, the muscles they got it right when
they say Hadith. If so, Hadith, Satya? Pretty much Muhammad said
Harold Matsui, Adi SelectUSA.
The prophets ISON
Harold masky is like the renegade amongst these orientalists. But I
did not expect that the entire presentation to be blatant quotes
from these non Muslim historians, when the whole premise according
to Dr. Krauss is Dr. Dr. Krauss his introduction, which I agreed
with is let people explained their own religion, right.
Let you explain yourself and your faith. I was like I'm totally on
board with that. It's totally respectful. Yet we have reached
the point where we're going to know these orientalists and taking
their word as doctrine. So wait a second did not Bacardi did not
Muslim did not Matic did not Abu Hanifa. Did not all of these
luminaries in Islam have methods? What was their method?
They didn't have methods. Okay. And as I said, throughout the
whole debate, watch out for this undertone.
Which really some someone commented, they said, Sheikh, it's
not an undertone anymore. It's an overtone. Right? It's being said
loud and clear. We trust.
Okay, and some of them got upset that I said this. Latte sipping
atheist? No, we trust the atheist Western historian. Why do you
trust them so much? Do you think they have no agenda?
They're all reaching one conclusion, which is the
conclusion, basically, that was mandate and given them to them
from the beginning of their history of the colonial project.
This is a, a project to destroy the OMA of Islam from centuries
ago. And it still exists.
And yet, we went with that. Now, here's the thing. To me, that was
annoying.
But to the outside user reviewer, I think they were more concerned
with the verses to be honest with you. I think that the citation of
those historians did it. It bothered me a lot more
than that, then it really affected the people. That's personal
opinion. And
when I was talking to one of the brothers, who helps prepare for
this debate, he concurred with that. That essentially that there
was a lot more that I had, in my mind, it was a lot bigger of a
deal than it actually was. And what the, the non Muslim breed and
that's is one of the audiences that I was thinking about.
Is that neutral person? Okay. There, there is our side of
things. There's his side. But don't forget that that big gray
neutral middle guy, someone's asking where can we watch this?
You can watch it at what's the website? Right? It's, is it UCLA?
Is Facebook page? Yeah.
Yeah, go to UCLA is Facebook, Youtube channel, sorry, go to
UCLA, his YouTube channel? And?
Oh, it's Islamic. Okay. So let's look it up. And we'll link it for
people who didn't watch it. So the first thing I said was my
expectation going in and how honestly, we are like we had the
support dominating the room, there was no doubt about it, right? You
look out and it was mostly people who supported this side of the
argument, which was, I think, important for the
in person environment and always it energizes a person when you see
people
there were supportive, but at the same time, I kept my eye mostly
though, most of the time. On those neutral. I tried to see their body
language try to see what they're nodding at what they're vibing
with. And some people there were neither from our group of friends,
nor were they working with him.
They were engaged, and I could tell that the verses were moving
to them. Now at all
In this article in this article Safina society.org/first pillar or
just go to Safina society.org. And right at the top, you'll see the
debate article. It's very important for every Muslim to know
these ayat. Okay.
Where it what it came down to, is that there are summary verses that
are interpretive verses and he stuck with them, which is those
who had to Alladhina head when Nosara was sabihin
those who were guided or Jews and Christians and Sabians man eminent
Biller, he will Yeoman aka COVID-19 with me, that's the
summary verse, right? That is a summary verse.
And that's what he's sticking with. But what I said was, listen,
look, there are so many other verses that explain that the Quran
human speech, in general, contains summaries and contains details.
And it does not have to be everything in order if you walk in
on a community and you want to figure out what that community is,
right?
And what their positions are, what their policies are, what their
beliefs are, etc. You're not going to ever really sit down all and
just get a whole
straight up answer A to Z, you're going to glean something from here
glean something from there in a conversation, the Quran is very
much more like the conversation than it is a textbook. Am I right
or wrong? And that's why we can recite it all the time and and
never feel like I can predict what's next. There's never a sense
of okay, if this issue is mentioned, then we're going to go
on a list that's predictable and boring. Right? Well, Allah
subhanaw taala has mingled his words together in such a way that
in any given passage, a lot of things are covered, a ruling of
fic may be covered a story may be covered a prayer may be covered
and a piece of doctrine may be covered in one area. Okay, in one
Sudha. So, you have to when when you're researching a matter, what
you have to do is research all of the verses of those matters from
different sources.
This is the main some of the one of the main asset
is that when are the Jews and Christians accept it with Allah
subhanaw taala it is oh people of the book you have no basis you're
upon nothing.
Until you uphold the Torah and the NG Alright, how do you uphold the
total energy and by completing it, and what is revealed to you from
your Lord ie the Quran
and then the verse following it, and these are the two most two of
the strongest verses that we use.
All right, those who follow the messenger
and Nebby at a meet Allah the Yeji doing the whole Mokuba and don't
Victoria tool Ng,
the unlettered prophet whom they find mentioned in the Torah and
the Gospel. So in the Quranic framework, in the internal logic
of the Quran,
the prophet has been prophesied in the Torah and the Gospel. Anytime
that Allah is telling them follow your book inside of it is guidance
and light means follow it, you will find in it if you are
sincere, you will find in it the requirement to go and follow this
prophet who we have just sent to you.
When are the Jews and Christians praiseworthy? When they believe in
do righteous deeds? What is the belief? Believe in the Prophet?
What is the most righteous deed submission to Him? That Allah who
it was then What did the Prophet say about them you have the reward
of being a Jew and being a Christian that's why he continues
reformed to to refer to them as Jews and Christians. Yes, you are
you have fulfilled the covenant properly. You have showed your
sincerity you have passed the test of your sincerity you to this book
by accepting the new book that is the sign of sincerity
that was my argument in a nutshell
and at the end of it if you take out all the fluff and or the all
the extraneous things that didn't matter,
he stuck with the general verse. Believe in God oh geez and Chris,
I believe in God unless day
then you're saved. No fear for you. But does not answer that
tough. See, it contradicts all of these verses. There should be
nobody in our Safina society group in our ArcView Group in our mbyc
group.
Anybody who ever comes upon this issue again, except that you have
all the verses that you need.
Okay, and I don't know if the slideshow showed up on the
like on the thingy right?
When I was putting the slides was it showing up in the YouTube video
Because unfortunately
the font didn't carry over
Oh, look at that terrible font. I don't know how his font carried
over. I guess it was it was present everything for him carried
over. None of my fonts carried over. They were terrible. So I
Yes, look at that. That's like It's like Microsoft Word default
font it's a disaster if you go to the video go to minute 53 It's all
just shows my screen
yeah
so that's why I even got a text message from somebody said, man,
great job. But please let me help you. Spice up your
your PowerPoint.
So mandala he was like,
Oh, it was Sheikh Mohammed should know we
good.
He was like, Yeah, we need to work on your it's like Microsoft
default fonts. And I didn't have time like one, maybe 15 minutes or
one half hour before the debate to to fix everything. But this was
the believers are only those who believe in Allah and His
messenger. None of you. None of your friends. None of your family
members should ever have any question about this anymore. Now
that you have this article Safina society dot o RG slash first
pillar, I want this article to spread, copy and paste it don't
even attribute it to me attributed to yourself. I don't care. I want
this to be with everybody these yet. And I genuinely honestly, was
seeing some non Muslims. Right? They weren't most of the Muslims
who came in they sent him the other Muslims, right. So I sort of
knew
they were not in their heads at this. That's when I felt really we
nailed this because it when a regular guy comes in. It's a yeah,
this is what makes sense. Yes, you're being nice to me and saying
that I'm saved in your religion. But to be honest, to be texturally
fair, this is what makes sense. And I kept trying to see that body
language. And I'll tell you at what point the whole thing split
wide open. You know that when there's a close game and you feel
like you're playing well, but then the other your opponent fumbles a
ball and you get a free six points.
And then you kick the field goal, now you're up by a touchdown.
And then it happens right? Again, later on, right with a bomb that
goes 70 yards and you got another 47 points right there. I'll tell
you when that happened is when he brought up
so the verses of students admitted
he brought them on. And I said okay, let me just go. Right let me
just
read the next few ideas. And that is always what we do in tough
seat. Everyone does this is not some trick that I came up with
everybody every Muslim knows. Someone gives you an idea. No,
read the first idea before and after it. Okay. And that is to me
that was the beginning of his of his undoing with all due respect,
because by the way, he was respectful to me, I have to say
that he I actually said one thing that I wish I didn't even want to
say that when I but I just got in the heat of the moment when I and
I really meant when I told him I know the verses are very clear if
you're educated. What I really meant was if you look at the
verses I didn't mean to insult the guy because we don't go that we
wanted to try to give a prophetic mood there and you know his dad's
there his wife's there. You want to humiliate somebody in front of
somebody else. So he's the one who says he cited this a oh people of
the scriptures qualia, nlk tabula Sumatra che and had that to claim
autodata Well, indeed, you're upon nothing until you uphold the Torah
and and the Gospels. Okay. And he stops there. And I said, Wait a
second. Let me go run. Well, what's the next day? Well, Matt,
Lindsey, Lindsey, Allah La Kuma robic mera be calm. And that will
just come down to you from your Lord, and then continue. Now the
next two verses are literally cutting and slashing on the deeds
and the beliefs of the Jews and Christians.
Okay. And I just read them. That's all I did. I'm telling you, there
was a guy right in front of me. He was laughing. He was laughing.
And I said, this is exactly what I said. When I said that this matter
is so clear and obvious that open the Quran into any period of verse
read for a period of time it will jump out at you.
And that's when I knew pretty much that.
At least in my view, that's one of its we this thing was we made it
clear, because this guy, there was two guys right in front of me.
They were young, they may have been grad students or something
and they were just laughing. They were nodding their head and
laughing, right. They were clearly convinced. They were clearly
convinced
Because I said, I did not prepare this. He brought up the verse,
right? He brought up this verse, I said, let me just read the one
that will look at what it says after it. Good, though, what it
says right after he brought up a fire at certain 69 We made a cut
next day we made a covenant of old with the children of Israel, and
we sent them to the messengers, as often as a messenger came on to
them, which they did not with something that their souls did not
desire. Right They denied it, and some they killed.
That's the next area because he brought the low those who believes
who are Jews and savings and Christians, whoever believes in
God on last day and does good deeds shall have no fear and no
grief. All right, wonderful verse, read the next verse, read the next
verse, we made a covenant you every time a messenger comes, you
reject Him. So what is the goodness talking about and what is
the bad deed talked about here? It's rejecting the Prophet peace
be upon him. They thought no harm would come of it.
So they were willfully blind and deaf and afterward Allah turned
their hearts away. Okay.
They surely disbelief that was the Jews. So the Jews were handled
first. You kill messengers, you reject profits, that's your
problem. Your problem is you have issues with MBAs. Next area.
Surely, they surely disbelieve those who say, Allah is the
Messiah, Son of Mary. And I went on, okay, and said children of
Israel, worship your Lord properly without partners. Okay? So they
have surely disbelieved. They say Allah is the third of three. Okay?
When there is no God, but Allah subhana wa Tada. All right. So
when I read those verses, that's really
that was that was the first I would say, it was it. It was a it
was a good intercept, it was a picksix. Because he brought it he
was on the attack with that verse. He thought he was on the attack
with that first. The next verse is just totally belied his theory.
And it was not planned. It was a wonderful, pick six interception.
And that turned the tide in my in my view. Now, I'll tell you, you
turn the tide, because you play you play. Well, there's one thing
you fumble the ball late in the fourth quarter. That's another
thing. And that's exactly what happened. Because the moment I
said,
recited, the verse is said, do not say the Messiah is God.
Then he says, he pulled something out. I couldn't believe what he's
saying. He say, Nah, the Quran has got it wrong on the Trinity. And
Muslims have got it wrong on the Trinity, because the Christian has
never said, The Messiah is God.
And it's not the same as saying God as the Messiah. I said, that
you just the Christians in the room were shaking their heads. I'm
telling you, I could see it. And I knew this. It's party time. It's
party time. You fumbled in the fourth quarter. That's it? I wish
I could take this mic. Bluetooth, and go downstairs. Yeah, the guys
working? Oh, yeah. Ask them. Do you believe that Jesus God, yeah.
They're all Christian. That's it also, yes. One simple line or
something? And this is what you say? Is Jesus God? Yes. Is God
Jesus? Yes. So same thing, right. And I we get it that's where you
lose everything. You nuance. You cannot nuance everything to death.
Right? There have to be some clearly self evident truths in
life as a self evident truth that in Christianity Jesus is
worshipped is like a so I'm not saying it's a truth in itself.
Obviously, I'm saying it's a truth that that's what they say.
Right? And I'm going to give you a treatment of this I have right
now. Because all three possibilities of what the Trinity
what Christians may have said, are handled in the Quran. The Quran is
not giving you one slant of the Trinity and Christianity. As soon
as we went there, let's To be honest, it was party time. That
everything in the room changed. Everyone was cracking up. Nobody.
Everyone was shaking their head. That's when I felt like alright, I
thought I, we had we had a good debate. And I thought that that
last set of verses,
it completely sealed the deal. I felt like I was up by two scores.
I really sealed the deal. Now you fumbled and he just, you know,
you're just walking it into the touchdown at that point, because
we ripped it wide open. And I could not do anything but laugh
It's you blaspheme does today you blaspheme the Christians? It's two
for one night in Los Angeles. Right? I want to apologize to the
Christians.
Right.
And if not for the moderator, right, I would have pulled it wide
open. Right. Let's look that how does the Quran dispute the
Trinity?
It describes the Trinity and through three ways. Look at the
camera lady and Ricardo in Allah has salifu selesa
Allah Azza
they have disbelieved those who said God is the third of 3/3 of
three means three essences in one. What have you third of three
essences? What's that? Father Son Holy Spirit. Catholics are taking
Catholics believe that right? So that's st care. Okay. What? All
right next one? We've got a low use of No madam antiquated in
acid, Taka duniya OMYA Isla Hyndman dunlea. There's another
subset of the Trinity according to this, that have taken, they wish
to worship God. Jesus is another one and another essence and
marries another essence and they're all worshipped
okay.
They're all worshipped the third one
William Duda Ludhiana. Carlota de la WELEDA. The simple concept God
has a son. So we're not saying that is worshipped but he's the
son of God. In this verse is not saying he's worship, but he's the
son of God is there anyone who says from the Christians that God
is Jesus is the Son of God, of course, all of them right? Of
today.
If they say that, they also say they also worship Him.
And they also hold it's one essence in three different
individuals.
Or three different forms, I should say. One essence three forms. Why
don't you let the next minute now what about the proofs from the
Quran? That the Torah was Mohammed if
we need to talk about that? But what about this if we Woe to the
people we don't know the Nick to woulda keytab OB ad him? They
write the book with their own hands, don't we? According to
human endeavor, they say this is from Allah, the Strv, feminine
Polina we didn't even talk about
Yes, there were a fact that all of this, we could still have it as
100% truth, but it's, it's abrogated. We didn't even discuss
that. But at that was the point in the debate. When we went and did
Jesus, the Messiah is God is different from God as the Messiah
or whichever order we had it.
We were in laughing territory right now. And that to me.
If the debate, the function of a debate, is to convince the person
in front of you, right, then at that point, it's not about
convincing yourself. That's an important thing is not about
convincing yourself is not about just getting it right with some
academics. It's about the person in front of you.
And I'm telling you
that the general audience in front of us was having none of that
part. And once you lost the credibility with them on the
description of that, then you know, like, Okay, I don't know
you're not credible anymore. Okay, you're not credible anymore if
you're bringing this you're nuancing this now you're nuancing
this the whole world your anyone what are the Christians saying
they worship Jesus right? Jesus son of God. Right Jesus is God
Himself. God and Jesus are one right
Mary Mother God his brother, then you pay attention to church,
right?
Oh my gosh, that was
crazy. Yeah.
Coming back in at the Newark Airport, where we stopped for
Silla. Have all these books and everything at Firstly, when we got
there who was up on the in the in the in front of us? It was Mary.
Right. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was like Mary Holden
Jesus or something. But these very fundamental things to be honest.
Right.
Let me talk about another thing that I didn't really want to get
into too much for the sake of the audience, maybe not understanding
it. But
let me I'm gonna let the in a Cafaro min al Kitab in Washington.
Yeah, that men
is Baniya Aqeedah it means that Alladhina Cafaro equals little
kids. When it came to categories that's our that's our law.
Okay Cafer you have two categories, people the book
Mushriks they have different laws apply to them.
Okay, so that men is not part because that would mean only some
of the pagans or Kapha right or wrong if men here is let's buy him
a tub aid means some Okay.
Some
that which book
mr.
Hola
Robina Quran
Dora,
Dora Mazoon
All right, min al Kitab Metallica Luffy I know Helmand fowl Kapha
Cafaro. All right, God. Well, Mr. Kenan, I'm Allah Kurata, machete
cubilia out for another end. Customer caffeine ilosone Fein
customer caffeine Cynefin this mint is Baniya it is a clarifying
of who the kofod are composed of. Not to vaid it can't be to have a
debate this part from amongst you from amongst you. There's good
apples and bad apples. No. Why is that impossible? Because all of
them should have keener kofod. If you say that Minear is lit debate,
you should know this, if you're a student of knowledge, put it on
the side, mainly debate means some of its some of Wouldn't that not
mean that some of the pagans are not Catholic? Only some of the
pagans are careful
that some of the pagans are not careful.
It's impossible. This man is Bania. Customer carefully in a
lesson Thane al Kitab. When we should begin?
Yeah, people haven't checked this. Yeah. People like Arabic speakers?
No, no. People who were commenting afterwards. Yeah. They were like,
wow, that one verse men, you know, from Yeah, you know, yeah. But
this is what you said in the beginning of the of the talk in
your intro, is that we rely on the people who live through the
prophet saw Salem, and the under that understand Arabic and that's
where our, our Arabic grammar comes from? Yeah, it is derived
from that. And if if, if it could go both ways, you have to
eliminate the way you have to eliminate the way that contradicts
other verses right? If the interpretation of Minear can go
both ways, you must eliminate the interpretation that contradicts
all these Muslims to know that men is Bania not let somebody All
right, that the men here refers to a part. No, it can't be that
because that would also imply that some of the pagans are only some
of the pagans are Catholic.
Right? Are you going to tell me now pagans idol worshipping
Abul Vishnu these people are not Kufa. That's where we're going
with this. i right. So that's the limited number two, you cannot go
that route.
Because it would then contradict other verses of the Quran that are
explicit. And here's what I brought but this is the argument
that I brought, right fine you know what? Say that it's some of
them which group that's why I didn't even mind when he went that
route say some of them okay, which group of them
the Quran tells us which group are the kofod those who rejected this,
this book
that they need to do no matter what I do with Serato in general
Quran and that you will find many of them in rejection. That's the
group the group that rejects the last message
so that is the concept here that's the idea of where we went with
this and
what's going on? No volume the volume is off
now maybe
just refresh it real quick.
Just refresh real quick. Maybe you just read
Yeah, all right. Good to be
very short Tafseer of suited bayanus Since there is no
ban Magia
de familia. Okay, there's the fun love it to see recovery. American
electronic government allocatable eight column Allah and Al Kitab
Muhammad Yehuda Alladhina can wash. Welcome Kure the one not
there were many Paynow kava and Mr. de Quito Mala the unit cannot
be maca. Okay, one wish the goon muesli cuckoo rice or colo female
animal for gainful Bayon it will not immediately linea with Allah,
He doesn't treat that.
Men, they're
okay.
But no, he does. In a sense. He said it is all of them. He's all
of them. Because he says Kalam, Allah and Al Kitab. They are all
of these Jewish tribes, and all of the pagans of Mecca, right.
Okay. Is there a sound is back, right. Sounds good. Everything's
moving. Just refresh. Yeah.
Just refresh. Okay. All right. So that's the my, the analysis again,
I
talks about the coming in to the event. I had never done a debate
like this before. Now, by the way, let me tell you something, some
people, and let me read you this comment some of the brothers, they
didn't even want this debate to happen.
Some people from the telegram group,
they didn't want the debate to happen. And they felt that
we should not give attention to these individuals. They're going
to spread their ideas and confuse everyone. I actually recognize
that point of view. And the the brother who said this is all
thought, Okay, I recognize that point of view.
Okay, and it is something you're it's a valid point of view.
Yet at the same time, my responses that are my opinion on this is
that it's out there already, everything's out there. So we
might as well rip the cover and treat it.
That's my perspective on it. All right. That's my perspective on
it. It's out there ready. We might as well just, you know, rip it out
there. Rip off the cover, show everyone what it is from now. And
treat it like I don't want my kids. My daughter has to know
about some of the facade on the internet. Well, one a day, it's
going to have to come around, then I'm going to have to tell them,
right? Or their mom will tell them. And I'll tell them and the
same thing was with my son, obviously, he doesn't know certain
things. I gotta have to give them a hint. I have to tell them at
some point, this stuff exists out there. Here's how you respond to
it. So that it's a difference of perspectives. And I totally
respect his opinion on that. Because things are
things are nobody, they that this stuff is not just cut say that
there's only one opinion on it. No, there's there are many
opinions
that are valid on this with this question.
Now, initially, the impression that I got when,
when Dr. Hashmi messaged me is that this is a graduate seminar
that he's teaching. He's giving a speech to the IRS given a talk to
the graduate department. But he just wants somebody to offer the
opposite side. So literally, I thought, I'm going to go into LA,
I'm going to dip in, give this talk and bounce and there's not
even getting there's not going to be much even going back and forth,
let alone that this was going to be a formalized public debate on
YouTube streams and everything else. I didn't imagine that
initial thing, right.
So that's how it started with me. And then it became okay, well,
we're gonna make it a debate format, right? So that we can go
back and forth and that's and we're gonna stream it. Alright, so
I'm not going to back down back out once we did this. So that was
the first thing which was how we even got to the, to this point in
the first place. Now the question is, is this like something that
I'm going to do? I can't foresee myself doing a lot of these.
I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it, you know,
except on a mat.