Shadee Elmasry – AQIDA Yasir Qadhi, Asrar Rashid, NBF 267
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opt EDA can be looked at in three ways and we're going to look at
all three to our left's a Texas is shippi Asif Ghazi Of course he
needs no introduction and across the pond as they say is shift a
sonata sheet also no need for introduction one of the most
important issues that is of relevance to our modern Muslim
community is actually the relevancy of God and religion. In
the modern tradition application of Gundam is an issue, but not so
much will be a shoddy tradition, but admire him, I'm gonna design
it and it might have been tambien a shot to be if they were to try
to refute secularism. I honestly don't think that the final product
that either of these mother dresses is going to produce is
going to be that different from one another. How do we reconcile
with be the Salafis today, and when I say seller fees, I mean, at
the bar Mohammed bin Abdullah Saleh no Famy bin baz, Pasadena
labelling, how do we reconcile them with the traditional machetes
and the follows of the four schools that just teach the books
in a dogmatic style just translate the book, but they do not give the
students application. So that leads to people facing Crisis in
faith now, Schiff Yes, it throws spark in your direction, what is
your methodology in studying Aikido?
Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim Al hamdu lillah wa Salatu was Salam
ala Rasulillah. He was a happy woman. Well, welcome everybody to
a special Safina site and nothing but facts. Live stream which is
not live this time. It's a it's a recorded stream, in which we have
two Nobel guests, two big theologians in the western English
speaking world within our country. To our left, Texas west of us is
shipping. Asif Kazi, of course he needs no introduction. And across
the pond, as they say, is shift. I saw the sheet also no need for
introduction. But if you are someone who is an American
listener of podcasts and live streaming things, you may not have
heard about Shika sama sheet Shiva Suraj studied in Damascus, Syria,
he also studied in Birmingham, Birmingham is a city where you can
finish a complete atomia top to bottom. So he now teaches that he
studied that in Birmingham, then went to Damascus, Syria studied
with the automatic Shem also took from some of the family of a data
we had medically. And so Shika stood out a sheet is is our second
panelist or guest today, I should say. So thank you both very much.
So sure. Yes, sir. First want to introduce you thank you for for
coming on. Zack Allah
hamdulillah shastra Thank you very much as well, I think at 6pm. It's
around method of maybe a little bit before method of time. So
thank you, as well for taking the time out.
I want to begin with something that will benefit everybody right
away.
Apply adopted, the theme for the today's podcast is up data. And
data is something that can really be looked at in two ways. There's
really three ways we're going to look at all three. There's a way
to look at data for everybody. Every Muslim needs to have a
modicum of appeal. That's the first one, the second one and the
third one we're going to come to that later. So why don't we begin
with this and we'll begin with our guests from faraway Chicka Chicka
Surat Why don't we begin with you what how do you view apply Dr you
to the day to day things that every Muslim really needs and
needs to benefit from
how I will start is with firstly the application of a Tada Tada.
So, understanding the attributable of Allah, knowing that lust for
HANA with our Allah knows with regard to our destiny and what
will occur for us, as well as an ultra the Divine Power of Allah
subhana wa ala and observing the fact of the Buddha of ALLAH
SubhanA wa running our daily life, this has a major effect in our
spirituality. So, this relates to us bubble risk, for instance, the,
the causes, Allah subhanaw taala creates of our risk many people
face up anxiety with the risk. Similarly, Allah subhanaw taala
helping us in our daily lives with regard to our other enemies.
Similarly, people worrying about the future, knowing that ALLAH
SubhanA will data safeguard
Observe. And, and this application of a pedo also falls into
observing the effect of the Sefa to align our daily lives, but also
observing a smart luck, the names of Allah subhanho wa taala. Like
it was, I'll meet Al Mahi, these types of attributes of Allah
subhana wa dalla. So that is an application of our theta in daily
life, just one aspect, but then also, when we look at the
hereafter, your multi Earth hero,
knowing that we are not in dunya, forever, this has an effect in how
we relate to remember, we live in the largest
capitalist nations in the world, written on the US, how do we apply
our RP day in terms of not being attached to the dunya to
materialism, material things, but being prepared for acid on the
grave. So that is also the application of Aqeedah. Similarly,
angels melodica what when we look at Malacca, to Russia, the angels
of mercy in the house, and also the effects of Baraka blessings in
the house, so like these things that we may take for granted as
basic tenets of faith have a major effect in our daily lives.
Subhanallah that that's a great answer. Because those are things
that Muslims regularly every Muslim will deal with in daily
life. Well, let's turn it over now to shake hands. What do you think
is, you know, the things that every Muslim needs to know?
So mashallah, there's no disagreement with anything with
our Mufti Saab said, obviously, but if you were to have asked me,
you know, what I would have responded to, they're all
overlapping. I would say we need to look at the Quranic revelation,
what impact did it cause upon the people upon whom he came? What
were the main aspects of theology that literally shook their
worldview completely, and based upon that we can get to the
permanent or the most important issues the most salient features
of our theater. So obviously, number one, without a doubt is the
centrality of tau A the monotheism of the notion that the How would
our forward to end up Billa when you remove all false idols,
physical or material when your opponent has died it up with Allah
and only Allah subhana wa Tada when you know, no one that no one
no entity can harm or hurt you other than Allah subhana wa Tada,
it changes your entire Slocan worldview gives you a type of
courage gives you a type of Tilak code it gives you a type of, of
frankly, Iman that nothing else can give you so the perfection of
understanding who Allah subhana wa Tada is, and the fact that there
is no Shetty no entity that is in any way similar to him. Number two
is the Quranic again, look at the Quranic emphasis on our hero,
right? There is no other aspect of theology, you will find it on
every single page of the Quran without exception constantly,
especially in the muck and zeros, I challenge you to read any
makansutra Except that every few if there is a direct or indirect
reference to the RTL and again look at the effect the impact that
that belief will have on your Sudak on your Warahmatullah on
your interaction with other people when you know there's a sub when
you know this agenda and now when you know that you're accountable
for your actions automatically is going to impact you at every
single level and plane of existence. So understanding
there's piano and bass and gender and not at sub automatically
that's going to bring about a change in your sudo and then
number three, of course is the centrality of the prophets of
Allah where it was sent him and his message and teachings and of
course, this is needed for us to understand how to live right and
so the incentivization will primarily come for most people
with the the aspect of tau Aden with hisab and then the
methodology of how to do that how exactly do we go about preparing
for the octo? How do we live our lives worshipping Allah subhana wa
data for that we have to have that central notion of the prophecies
and being that but it kinda confused Rasulillah who's what on
has a dual lumen can a yellow joola How will human after again
what I talked about right the two points here yardage Hola Hola,
diomande ASEAN and sweat en hacer una right. So we have the EU swap
in the methodology and the CR and then we have the reality of why we
need that also, which is belief in Allah and the Africa. So this is
what I would answer and again, this is complimentary to all the
remove this upset, Michelle, it's complimentary and the focus on the
ACCA is so important and oftentimes when people talk about
this Eman, Elijah is dispraise that is the man of the old lady.
What they really are the elder elders they mean the common Muslim
but these things they have a down pat they may not be able to tell
you anything in the textbooks of Aki Ada, but these things through
their daily life through attending Jo ma through actually having
pride
Problems with risk or temptations for five, six decades, their Eman
becomes Rasik. And I think sometimes to love Edelman
intellectuals sometimes actually dismiss a lot of these things as
merely just, you know, soft things that aren't really that critical.
Yeah, they may not be critical in the realm of debates. But in daily
life, you never end needing reminders on these basic things.
And this is what in our world today, YouTube playlists, right
provide this for people. It's just practically speaking in most
people's homes, the Smart TV is on, right, these things come on
regularly different, you know, organizations that splice up
speakers talking about Metallica talking about Africa, talking
about being judged, talk about meeting ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada and
presenting our deeds, or having our DS presented to us. Things
like this are extremely critical. And I as we move into
more Khademi or debatable or back and forth issues, I want to put
the backdrop that this applied octina is probably the most
important thing for 99% of Muslims 99% of the time. Right. And with
that backdrop, and with that context, we move in now to another
context. And that is the issue of
until, until intellectual non scholars what do we mean by that?
It used to be there's there was a world where words and books were
not spread far and wide. Either you studied or you just heard Jama
that was it. Right? You either enter jamea Or you attended
Jamaat, that was like the only exposure you had, there weren't a
lot of books. Today, there's so much exposure to knowledge, and to
issues, that there is something we can call a highly educated lady,
highly educated, except he just doesn't attend to Bruce.
He doesn't study formally in any way shape and form. He may be in
it, he may be in medicine, he may be in something else. This highly
educated lady is exposed to atheism and needs a rebuttal is
exposed to evolution and needs to know the answer is exposed to so
many things and needs an answer. So that brings us up to the
subject matter of Kedem 3.0 with Sheikh Hamza Malik coined, which
is the Kedem, or theological responses
to these common issues that every intelligent Muslim will be exposed
to. So why don't we reverse it? Now? We'll go to shaky acid first
on that subject, then we'll go to check us out on
Jade. So there's no question that
we need to reevaluate our
religious discourse when it comes to theology, in my humble opinion,
and that is that the classical textbooks that all of us who went
to addresses were taught, you know, I went through a particular
system of the SR, one to another tradition. These classical
textbooks were written for critical times in places by people
who were dealing with the problems of their era.
Many of us when we study these textbooks, we come out of these
Maduro says, and we simply feel we need to do the exact same thing to
our faith based communities. I used to be like that 1520 years
ago, but it dawned upon me, this is not my perspective that
actually no, this is not our priorities, the priorities are not
to regurgitate. The past controversies of NESHAP would have
the fifth century, but rather, the current priorities are of a
totally different nature, and the books that we need to teach and
the concepts we need to ingratiate in our people might not
necessarily be found in the wording in the form as obviously
the solar and all the classical books, but we need to redo and
obviously you can even go back to, I don't know if this is
controversial or not, but I know that if God and even others like
talking about a new animal kingdom, it looks like we need to
now redo and defend the religion. So I am totally you know, for this
notion now, what do you call it a new regiment Academy you just call
it you know, rethinking through the Messiah that needs to be
taught, one of the most important issues that is of relevance to our
modern Muslim community is actually the relevancy of God and
religion in the modern tradition. You know, what we see now is that
unfortunately, the default in western secular society is to
either make religion a private and you know,
a very personal matter or even to actively oppose religion. And
people are taught this notion that you can be an ethical and moral
person without a belief in a higher entity without hisab
without belief in the prophets.
And that's why a lot of these new messiah dar and what's going to
happen to a person who rejects Allah and His Messenger or they're
a good person, but you know what's going to be their fate in the era.
So I am a firm believer that we do need to redo these types of
notions and prioritize them because perhaps we're jumping the
gun but it is relevant here. I don't see a person who follows any
of the mainstream strands of Islam, any of the mainstream had a
sunnah in the generic sense. Strand praying, fasting, believing
in Allah and His Messenger wanting to follow the city. I don't see
them as an enemy, I don't see them as a lost cause. Inshallah they
haven't enough salvation or Iman, even if I don't agree with a
particular issue, but in their personal lives and their Disgaea
and their dialogue with Allah and their mahabhava the Quran and
Sunnah. Inshallah they have passed, they have surpassed the
salvation a level, the same cannot be said, of somebody who's saying
we don't need surely on our types, the same cannot be said of
somebody who genuinely is struggling to understand the
wisdom of why they need to be a good Muslim in our timeframe,
these people actually deserve far more of our attention. And we need
to change the discourse for them. So I personally because of just
because of my own bias where I came from, I probably wouldn't
call the journeyman collaboration two or three, as you understand
why, but I don't have any issue with the concept or the idea that
we do need a new discourse and that needs to be our priority will
the Harlem okay? The follow up to that. So if you want to get that
ready is going to be what would be the methodology, the parameters or
the method and the code of such a
refutation? You can call it Harris theology or refutation of COVID.
But first, let's go to shake Strauss opinion on this need for a
new color, a Kadem 3.0 Or
a refutation for these issues?
Well, I wouldn't agree with Hamza tamale because many years ago,
there was a debate actually with Hamza Karmali and some application
of a full column between one of our Birmingham based or Lemma and
this occurred actually in the masters the application of them is
an issue, but not so much for the Ashanti tradition. Why? Because
when we start from the works of Imam Mohammed bin use of a Solusi
Rahim Allah for instance, the Afghan
are given the judgments of the mind which are important, Thomas
Shara are given and the various judgments are discussed, the
application of that can vary from time and place. So, like in
sharper law, I have the design for instance, he has a discussion on
how particular Shia if abita tune and then he also discusses the
Greek philosophers and how they dealt with reality. But then you
fast forward to David Hume, the Scottish philosopher, and Immanuel
Kant. do assume that is found in tough designing although that is
found in even more dense than I'm worth. The application of that
soul can easily
dismember and totally destroy the arguments I've even recent
philosophers and modern philosophy. The application was
demonstrated by shakily Stan Mustafa salary so when you go back
to his book mock up a tome of a work huge book, a person can
patiently read throughout the through the work and you will find
that 90% of the work
applies easily to modern atheists. So new Atheism and the modern
arguments presented by atheists. Similarly, you have updates by the
likes of Sheikh Mohammed side, Ramadan and booty in Cobra, late
European Yatra konia. Similarly, you have the same being done by
Abdul Rahman hasn't happened or the haben at a school in general.
They had a you just look at the words of Abdurahman personal
vendetta. He applied Callum, old al Qaeda insured in the column of
bizarrely the Kurama browsI the kalam of Zanussi, the classical
goddess, they apply that to all modern philosophies or political
sciences and they totally dismantle
those arguments to the point that any graduate from
from the Masters they will they are exposed to those books so you
could go into dark color mean *, Boney in the Masters, you're
exposed to all of that Lixia similarly in Egypt, in Al Azhar
also share it they are exposed to to all of these philosophies but
counters are given by the other ulama recently, the US are on the
release
20 volumes against modern atheism and objections on the Quran
objections on the Sun
No objections are responding to the objections on the Sunnah,
objections to the Quran and objections to the the personality
of the messenger of allah sallallahu.
So, with all due respect to Hamza cromoly, he may have been produced
and the likes of him have some maturity and ushering modalities,
some of them that just teach the books in a dogmatic style, just
translate the book, but they do not get the students application.
So that leads to graduates who are unable to apply the classical
books. So you may have classical canon books being taught, but the
application is missing. And that leads to some people facing a
crisis in faith. They have a crisis in faith when they go into
any academic university and they're exposed to various
arguments they are unable to answer, and they do not even know
what is the relevance of Kalam today? Yeah. Okay. So I think that
both all three of us agree that there has to be a refutation, and
that the realm of refutation is really right under the importance
of this applied update of the first segment, I talked about the
applied it to every Muslim household, most of them kids,
Sunday schools, Islamic schools, regular Muslims who are not
necessarily intellectuals who read, they benefit so much from
applied updated once you start, your mind starts to churn a little
bit and start asking questions. The next strand of Islamic
literature, or knowledge that becomes truly an obligation for
you, is to remove doubts that are presented to you by atheism
cetera. So I think we all agree on the need for these reputations.
But we're differing on what we're going to call it. And its route.
Now here's the thing, a lot of people, they all they knew about
Islam is the applied of theta. Okay, there's heaven and *, and
there's all these things. They don't realize that for centuries,
Muslims have been debating things, because they've been kofod. And
atheists for centuries that have been throwing doubts at Muslims,
and they have a response. So this response, has a history has a
tradition, and has a methodology. This is the next question that I
want to broach. If we're going to respond. We need railways, we need
a methodology. The first group to respond with Mr. Tesla, they had
no methodology, they went off the rails or they had a methodology
wasn't right, they went off the rails. So there's my question to
shake acid, when we're going to have a western tradition of
refutation of all the things that we're dealing with, we will
naturally respond by reason and debate. So what is the methodology
by which a student of can learn the methodology and then apply it
to the various questions rather than handling? question by
question? Is my question clear? So I think the issue of soul or
methodology, when it comes to responding to these modern issues,
is one that might vary slightly between the established you know,
pre modern schools, but I think the net result that is going to
come is not going to be tangibly, you know, different. So for
example, that admire him, I'm gonna design it and in my vivid
tambien his shots would be if they were to try to refute secularism,
I honestly don't think that the final product that either of these
mother dresses is going to produce is going to be that different from
one another. Because the issues that and this is, again, a deeper
topic, I know we're jumping the gun here. But it might appear to
the insider that our differences between these schools are somewhat
large. But my analysis is that when it comes to modernity, no,
they're not. When it comes to dealing with the issues of our
timeframe. Frankly, we're on a very, very similar wavelength
here, if we were to be I personally don't subscribe to any
one school anymore. But if we were to be of any particular school of
the classical tradition, there is dalim. Oneness, there is a respect
of the sacred texts that is universal amongst all of these
trends of you know, mainstream Islam, you know, there is a
prioritization of auto level auto rasuluh, there is an understanding
that after is used to defend the Scripture, all of this is standard
sort amongst
all mainstream. So I don't feel personally that there's going to
be a tangible difference in the methodology when it comes to
refuting these issues, perhaps in the choice of examples, perhaps in
you know, the finer aspects and even that you'll probably find an
overlap, but we'll know who I am. I really think that you will sort
of have been laid out by our predecessors, and I don't find
there to be and again, the easiest reality of this is to see what it
is and how odema of different strands are actually refuting a
These modern movements, and you find that they are overall,
they're overlapping, right? They're saying the similar things,
and they're defending the Shediac. I have a number of PhDs from
Medina about the need of religion and our times, and I've read with
these as well, you have to you have to recover, for example, I
mean, the philosopher, I would say, is very similar in this
regard, you know, why do we need the SATA? Why do we need why? What
is the the need of having a message in our times, so a lot
more. And I think there's no need to overcomplicate the simple, we
do have an agreed upon methodology, which is to
understand that Allah subhana wa data sent us a profit because our
own intellectual not capable of attaining ultimate truth without
him. And because of this, the same philosophy will be understood to
refute these modern trends whose basic premise is we don't need
God. And we don't need a higher power. And we can arrive at the
hack without a hack. And that's the basic, you know, fundamental
difference between all of us as Muslims in between them. So I find
that when it comes to contemporary issues, it's a very, they're
they're a uniting force, contemporary issues are a uniting
force, because everyone is fighting the same enemy and coming
up with whatever tool that we can come up with, within the circle of
Islamic scholars. But the question now, the follow up question is, so
the result may be the same. They are for sure, unified forces. But
for the for the educated lady, as I'm calling them, what would be in
let's say, a minute or two minutes, the whole soul of this?
So they say, Listen, I'm not going to go point by point, give me the
methodology give me if I was to go on fit, for example, we would say
in medically fit, right? It's going to be the Quran, it's going
to want to watch it Hadith, it's going to be Ahmed Medina, then
it'll be 100 Hadith. The chef A's will say, No, no, no, I'm at so
give me the azul of how to refute how to respond. So if I want to
ask both sides in two minutes, what would be the azul, the
fundamental principles by which I would handle attacks on theology
or ideas? That contradicts our theology? Jay, so you want to go
first with this?
After you said, Okay, so your I haven't really thought about
formulating those sorts of off the cuff. But I will say off the cuff
literally, I would say, first and foremost, but what I would do, I
would look at the underlying presumptions the paradigm of where
these movements are coming from, right, and compare and contrast
them to our underlying paradigms. We begin with the foundational
premises, so So whatever issue you're refuting, let's give me an
example of secularism, for example, right? What are the will
soon? Where is secularism coming from? And how does that differ
from our fundamental paradigm? So for example, when it comes to
secularism, secularism is the product of a particular Zeitgeist
a particular time and frame a particular set of issues and
problems, and they had to solve that we cannot refute secularism
without going to the sort of secularism Why was secularism
needed? Another sort of secularism, by the way, is that
secularism is coming out of Christianity is not coming out of
Judaism, right. You could never have a Jewish
culture, produce secularism, because Christianity has no law,
because there is no detail Shediac they can have this type of
understanding of Okay, let's keep ethical things aside here. So when
you look at the OSU contrasted with ours, you will begin with
that point, a second, I think methodology methodological
premise, which of course, all of our scholars Rosati and David,
Tim, and others are well versed in this and that is you look at
internal internal confrontation between various strands of any
movement, and you see, where are they refuting other strands and
you take the best of those arguments and utilize them. So
secularism, as we are aware, has a variety a wide array of Muda. His
best example is American secularism versus lacets in
France, right? And you can compare and contrast their critiques and
use them to critique the entire infrastructure. A third is to look
at the Thammarat or to look at the results of any strength advocacy
mountain. So what happens when you go down this route, what is going
to happen? We see the licentiousness, the hedonism, the
sheer lack of you know, the depravity, the lack of compassion,
and whatever you want to say about the Muslim world and culture in
terms of GDP, you cannot equate with the Quran and with the
compassion and with the treatment of elders right. So there are
tangible realities that come the summer that comes so these are
some of the ways I would you know, bring about the lawsuit but again,
this is off the cuff and if I were to think about it, I have a more
detailed list I'm sure that we can pass it over to him with the
southern shoulder, okay. Sure.
Yes, I will, I would say is firstly, we start with Tamela
judgments of the mind, which have been designated as worship
essential booster hailing possible and Moonkin. Every individual must
Speed trained with regard to come up, this is important. So they do
not mix up, come up with an outcome on the harder because if
they mix up atom on the harder which is the habitual judgment,
they will conflict between modern science and they will end up
rejecting miracles horrible idea. For instance, carpal harder is not
Mr. Hill UCLA, it's mustafina outdated, but when someone makes
it and conflate the two, they fall into a basic mistake, which
happened with Mohamed Abdul Rashid Rida, another Fulani when they
come when they were unable to distinguish between our camel and
camel. Similarly, we go to a bar meeting about the concept of
Dueto. So our public firstly, must be informed with regard to
athermal atlan account other Secondly, with regard to the
lotto, and the concept of duardo. And thirdly, the role of an
herbalist will help us with Hamsa avoya their role in application of
in our histology how we attain knowledge These are three things
which everyone from the the learned public meaning the laity
that is educated can be trained with regard to and this is why the
solution is still very relevant today even the the Cobra avelumab
Solusi Rahim Allah fourthly, I would say an emphasis on maarif
love Allah subhana wa Tirana, meaning modifier is a form of
knowledge also, and this is what a demon will handle the zali. He
moved towards to in the end of his life when he said he had the
crisis. The crisis was not with regard to easy man, the crisis was
with regard to the epistemology. And this was then developed by the
likes of Eduardo De Rahimullah, a Schekman. Dean. So these are full
methods of ascertaining knowledge. Many years ago, I picked up a book
by Antony Flew, he wrote a book in the 1960s on the existence of God.
When I read the book, I read the entire book, I placed the red
lines on all the places where it he was actually refuting arguments
against the existence of God against the existence of God,
things which were had already been debated
by the Usher era, and the mark Tesla. So all these arguments with
the more sad arguments, so this is someone writing in the 1960s,
bringing up martyrs silly arguments that were debated well
over 1000 years ago. So in terms of development arguments, if you
go back to some of the classical words, you will find that many of
the modern arguments have actually been debunked
centuries ago, and if we do not train our ruler, our students with
regard to the correct application of Kalam, you will have the likes
of Muhammad Abdul, who made the total mess when it comes to any
Mukalla which was demonstrated by Mustafa Sabri and use of a BGP and
other shoe analyzer.
Okay, it's a very good response from both sides. And I do want to
ask about one I'm going to ask about Madiba in a second. But I
want to also translate for everybody who do who may not know
some of the Arabic terms. The summary of what Schiff said is
that the also the the tracks the methodologies that you would give
that you would teach any Muslim today in order for them to be
protected from these ideas. Number one, really the the main thing you
said is to understand that all knowledge comes from one of three
sources, observable knowledge, transmitted knowledge, and then
rational knowledge. And to know that all three are valid forms of
knowledge. And this is sort of a reputation of scientism, which is
that truth really only comes through observation, or
philosophy, where truth only comes through rationalization. And so
and it gives victory to Dean and religion by emphasizing the
truthfulness and the factuality of transmitted knowledge, right,
Hadith and Quran. These are facts because they are transmitted by
Toto. So that's the first thing that the summary of Sheikh was she
said, the second thing is that is not to confuse the rational
judgments with observable judgments not to confuse the two.
Because there could be a rational judgment is something that is not
internally contradictory.
And if it comes through transmitted knowledge, we can
accept it as a fact, as opposed to academica observe things that we
never observe. So there are things we never observe, such as
miracles, right, but they could possibly exist. There's nothing
irrational about miracles. So that's a summary of of
Let's use what Sheikh Hassan said is well suited candidates are also
the also the foundational
pieces of knowledge that if they are embedded in the DNA of a
Muslim minds in the gene, whatever it of Muslims thinking, a lot of
these things could be pushed away quickly, right or put in their
spot quickly a lot of ideas could be swatted away quickly. So but
now I want to ask you about this fourth one, man if What do you
mean by that, that it's a protection for a Muslim? In other
words, to have a lot of light in his art and to have a spiritual
experience
in a bad in Eman, is that what you mean by Madhava as a form of
knowledge, so I'll modify would include horrible light well fully.
So a Shem. You didn't even know Adobe? He states that the
definition of Yvonne is increase of love. So whenever your love of
Allah and increases your Eman increases, so love is also a form
of marriage. So if we emphasize love in the hearts of the public,
in terms of love for Allah and His Rasulullah sallallahu it will set
it up. This is also an increase of the Eman I remember once a cedar
bus Maliki. Here this young Saudi who arrived from America he went
to America to study and he came in contact with devil worshippers
when he came in contact with devil worshippers he had he was he was
extremely distraught, distraught, and he came to say that a bus and
say the bus was shocked to even hear about devil worshipers that
they even exist. But what safeguarded this young Saudi man's
Eman was the fact that he was raised in the presence of the
likes of the cedar burst who inculcated in in him the love of
nannies or food some Allah why do you say that he never went through
a crisis of faith. He was just disturbed by the devil
worshippers. Yeah, so the Satan bus and we he mentioned and
emphasize that we must inculcate love in the heart. So the young
people love him love of Allah and His Messenger SallAllahu I think
there was a case of a an American murdered Sheikh Sheikh who became
a more than an homosexual. Now, when that was mentioned to me, I
said, the only reason why that would have happened is because he
had no love for Allah and he's Rasulullah sallallahu because if
he loved Allah and he saw the full moon, he would prefer that to the
love of his shower of his desire. So that is one definition of
Maratha. Then of course, there's there is Halawa to EMA having the
head our two EMA Munna jab with Allah
of the Corolla, all of these things, this then goes into the
the aspects of solo can le Mutasa, which is beyond our conversation
today. But yeah, it's, it's not the subject, but I do understand
what you mean now by that actual spiritual experience. And that's
the function in traditional of traditional vicar, gatherings, and
any acts of any group worship in massage. That's the whole function
of that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be done in a
group, but it just makes matters easier. So let's now turn back to
check it out. So let's prioritize the number one issue that the
educated lady that you would wish the number one issue that the
educated lady that you would want to address for them? Would it be
atheism? Would it be the need for religion secularism? So I believe
there's multiple number ones, depending on the audience
discussing, I can't I just there is it depends on say, if you're
speaking to a very practicing conservative or liberal Mitch type
Pro, like you said, the academic what was the educated laity? The
educated laity is not the same as the alamin Muslimeen. Right. So
you really can't have the same number one in both of these
discourses. Of course, when you talk about the absolute alamin
Muslimeen, there is no question that the number one issue is to
increase their mahabhava Allah and His Messenger, there's just no
question because they are struggling to maintain the basic
facade. They're struggling to be a good Muslim. And the default that
they have is they believe in Islam. That's the default
Alhamdulillah we thank Allah that the light of Islam is so strong
and the fitrah is so pure, that when the to intermix at birth and
an upbringing that default to the Muslim throughout his or her life.
There is going to be a flicker of Eman Al Hamdulillah. We thank
Allah because this is a sign of our, the validity of our faith to
be honest, unlike in Christianity and Judaism, that's not the
default anymore. So because this is the case, our job is to attend
preachers is therefore to encourage to nourish our job is to
increase their time
OKlets ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada and their desire to want to learn
about the Sierra and the Sunnah of the Prophet salallahu Alaihe
Salam, that's the number one priority amongst those I want.
Now, what if another group comes that is like, like, you know,
perhaps I would say, amongst that category, or let's say in America
and about England, college youth, amongst college youth, I do
believe there are intellectual Shovelhead that need to be
addressed, right, which are different than the absolute our,
and amongst them would be important to bring up you know,
certain aspects depending on the the youth that are front of you,
but to explain, for example, Yanni, by the way, just today,
somebody forwarded to me a whole survey done about x Muslims of
America, I can send you the PDF as well analysis that they have done
about this thing, these are troubling statistics that we need
to talk about. So one of the issues that troubles our youth is
to try to rationalize what they view as some of the aspects of
Islam that they cannot understand at all right. And that's not the
time to get into right now. But that's an issue to be addressed
with amongst college youth. How do we understand these things?
Amongst the,
the intellectual, you know, I want to call them, right, the the ones
that are not full tempo level, and still they are interested in their
element, they're very intelligent people. Generally speaking, you
know, again, I have my views. And I know there might be other views,
no problem. In my humble opinion, one of the biggest issues to raise
amongst such people is how to strive for practical unity, in
spite of our differences. To me, that is one of the biggest
priorities amongst those who are activists, even if they're not
full time. And to understand that, and this is, again, my philosophy
and manager, we're gonna we're gonna come to the next question.
But my view is that the differences of the past the
classical Madonna hit of Athena, even and whatnot, we need to
somehow for the greater good come together, even if we maintain our
differences, and keep them as they are. But what are some of the
practical ways to do that? I think this is for me, number one. And
also, as a corollary to this, the dangers because in this group, the
number one danger amongst those that are intellectual Allah, if
you want to call them the number one danger, in my humble opinion,
is the ease of taking other intellectual one as the other and
the enemy, right and to create division from within our own. And
to go back to a simplistic or a fundamentalist or a, a madhhab
based or a felucca based any type of Jonnie sectarianism that is not
healthy for the Ummah, we need to get to a level of practicality
where nobody needs to compromise on one's own understanding of
their theology. But we need to be wise enough to understand the new
other is no longer what it used to be 300 500 1000 years ago, and
amongst all of us, we do need to work together in order to protect
all of our interests. Because here's the irony of ironies. We
might disagree amongst ourselves, but an outsider, were he to visit
any of our houses, were you to see how we treat our families, our
children, were you to see our lifestyles, right. That outsider
could not tell any difference really, by and large, about our
views of the world, you know, the issue of our children dating the
issue of living in America or England, that he or she would find
us to be exactly on the same wavelength, right. So I think
because of this, one of the biggest problems we have amongst
that category of people, is the danger of reverting to a
simplistic one dimensional sectarianism, because it's so
comfortable dialoguing with somebody who understands your
language, and you find, you know, some benefit in that. But then the
two of you are locked in a room and the rest of the world is
moving on, you know, you and others can debate the facts and
debate other can debate about it. And this is our forte, this is our
expertise. But as we do this, and there's five of us in this room,
there's 95 people outside who couldn't care less about what
we're doing, and who have a totally different wavelength. So I
find this is a problem for those five, because it's so comfortable
to go back to what they deemed to be familiar. So anyway, I hope
that answers the question likoma Common makan, depending on which
group I'm addressing, there's different number one, two and
three is I would do Okay, good. So Chickasaw, do you agree with this?
So what are the the perception of this of the issue being that
classical issues have very little relevance to the common Muslim and
the intellectual
laity? The educated, common Muslim, and hence, as a result,
should really only be studied almost as history? And it can be
debated on the side. But the bulk of the matter has to be focused on
the contemporary Miss Ed.
What's your comment on that?
Oh, well, I would frame this issue is that we continue with the
classical debate. That's no issue. As long as you do not allow it to
affect
The issues that affect everyone every Muslim. So we we continue,
but it's not so much debating the classical issues. It's more to do
with how you debate those issues. So for instance, if me and Dr.
Yasser, we disagree on an issue of Quran, he writes a academic work
refuting me an academic work
in intelligent work, and I respond with an intelligent work that is
not unhealthy. Similarly, if he meets up with me and we discuss an
issue of Kalam, even though that issue of color may have been
debated for hundreds of years, we sit down we debate the issue, we
discuss the issue. The main thing is the the civil behavior, how do
we go about doing that? How does it affect the public? If it causes
toxicity?
discord in the sense that it leads to fighting it leads to violence,
then that is unhealthy. But if it's a scholarly debate, and this
happens in many, you would know, there are many publishing houses
today that publish healthy reputations. Also, in there are
many books written which I would refer to as healthy reputation.
It's more to do with how we approach reputations, and not
attempting to silence reputations totally because that will never
happen. I'll give you an example a shareholder for DACA bluedata.
Allah,
a man that everyone is familiar with a person who was reasonable.
He lived in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh, he attempted many times to
unite with the oil magnate in the sense that he praised the role of
Mabinogi depraved Mohammed bin Abdullah.
But yet he was never accepted by should not have been allowed ban
should not have been a little banning refuted harshly, and then
a sharp attack that responded and refuted him and it was so heinous,
shall we, but she handled for that good that was accommodating and
very, his manners were impeccable, that demonstrates to us and if you
remember, there was also a meeting between a chef Yusuf al Qaradawi,
a chef, not sort of doing a little Bernie and shake up the Fatah
Buddha in Lebanon in the 1970s. They disagreed on something and it
led to written reputation. The point being that reputations will
never stop. But how do we go about refuting had, what I would suggest
is that we present our reputations in an academic manner. We have
added a double nifty laugh in the sense of Arcilla mannerisms,
and also presenting the the laugh and the dispute in a way that it
does not affect major issues. Like for instance, in America, you have
the biggest and most powerful Zionist lobby,
the pro Israel lobby.
In America, the Muslims must unite against the pro Israel lobby. That
is a great
goal for all the Muslims within the United States. That is a
common goal. The dispute cannot affect the political goal of the
Muslims when they counter the Zionist lobby. Similarly, we have
LGBT lobbies, when we can to them, we cannot allow our internal
reputations affect our unity in country, LGBT, or countering
Zionists are countering anything that is antithetical to Islam.
Although will the detractors of Islam so that is my opinion in
terms of reputations. There are many Salafi you to come and visit
me in Birmingham, we sit down regularly we discuss our issues.
We debate our issues, some of them do not pray behind me. When the
salah time comes, they do not pray behind our email, but they still
the fact that they are arriving at the masjid and discussing. I look
at the positive in the sense that at least you arrived at the masjid
and you are giving conveying salaam some of them by the way,
decades ago would never give me center. Now they give certain
things. They pray behind me personally, but they won't pray
beyond the Imam of the Masjid. Even though I've demonstrated to
them that the man diversity doesn't have Shere Khan his
belief. He doesn't have any doubt in his belief, but
they have moved more towards a healthy trend of what dialoguing
which dialoguing haywire is the first way of moving forward, you
will never finish the sectarian disputes. But as long as we are
dialoguing as long as there is he Well, as long as there is a slot
as long as there is a Doublelift enough and as long as we do not
allow it to happen
Back great to gold's been handling that. Okay, I just want to add one
thing, though, this is all great. And with the sub, everything you
said 100% agreement, I just have one other issue that me
personally, again, I'm not you, you are your own person me
personally, I would also add these issues should never form the topic
of such buzz or our lectures, that we should not bring up a topic
that is intended to cause division with within the medical lemma
common. And I gave a hotbed, for example, last year, this time
about the motor, if you listen to that, you know, I was very clear
in this regard that those who celebrate those who don't
celebrate, you know, you keep your positions, but learned that both
of you are coming from a paradigm and a new soul, that what unites
us is more than what differentiates us, this is the
type of rhetoric that needs to be at the basic level, the type that
is defending one view against the other, in my humble opinion,
should not be done on the members that should be that amongst the
ship, and I want, as you said, amongst the academics or amongst
those that are interested, come to my head of thoughts and gurus and
now we go over. And even then amongst the ship that I want,
again, in my humble opinion, the adjectives and the methodology,
and the rhetoric needs to be toned down from some of what we find
even amongst our own teachers, because even the ship had even
these pseudo academics, if you and I speak from experience, how I
was, and even how I learned my own strength, if you are constantly
full of hatred, your student is gonna, you know, compress and
exacerbate that hatred, right? If you're constantly further genuine
anger against a Muslim who's lowering his head more than 30
times a day, even if they have a different understanding of stuff
ought to, then your student is going to take your anger and
concentrate it even more so and spread it in a much more divisive
manner, even you doing it in your private how to, or not doing what
your student will do in his private cloud. So I would simply
add the caveat in public, as low as possible, lower the bar to be
as United and even in private when you're teaching. There's got to be
a language and an audience at a time and a place. There's got to
be a methodology even in reputations that hey, look at the
broader picture. In the end of the day, what we agree about is far,
far more than what we disagree about, well, Oh, these are just my
my own personal caveats. Oh, I want to add a ballot to that there
needs to be a distinction made between issues, which are not
actually met along with global or indehiscent. Like, for instance,
refer your day, this became a big issue in the Indian subcontinent.
But the offer you're doing is a non issue. Even amongst the
selfies they have the referee adeiny issue. After you do pm you
do roughly a day in and up. And some of the few of the selfies
they don't do up. Some of them set up these bids or whatever that may
be molded in itself. Al Faqih he, for instance, refuted moly, but he
was an SRE. And then alamin JELA. Dino so up, he gave de facto
permitting holy moly, again, would not fall under those issues of a
double grinder is sooner. So a distinction needs to be made of
those issues, as well as those issues which are even bottled are
in that is nothing that cannot be grasped by the public. Like if we
start discussing, I'll just lay your pajamas in the door at
football. So the Jumar football must should generally be something
that is more a slice of the people for so they need to be a
distinction between what is the rule and what is not. Okay, it's
very good that you bring up this distinction because as we talk
about unity, we also need to talk about the the levels and the
degrees of unity. So is our unity based upon identitarian Islam,
meaning that just by merely identifying as a Muslim, that we
you, we should unify with the neck case, we're completely melting
down.
Any and all parameters or bear or lines, even if those lines were
made in the past, just because a line or a difference of opinion,
or a sectarian or a Sunni versus Bidda line was drawn in the past
doesn't mean it doesn't trickle down till today. All right. So the
Shia being a great example. They have a whole community, their idea
was forged in the past. And yet,
in a community sense, it still has relevance today. So that leads us
to the next question, the importance. Do we believe in an
importance of defining an Edison and what is the Code of Conduct of
this unity between groups that we hold to be within Addison and
outside so I asked like three questions there. So let's start
with the first one is that if we speak about unity, are we holding
that unity limiting that to Edison?
Not or to identitarian Muslims.
Most of you go first.
Well, I would say that we stick to the identity of Allah. So Noah
gemera as was formulated from the time of our beloved Omar Abdullah
on when he was informed of someone who became a mother. And he
refused to convey salam to that person because of his rejection of
other as it mentioned in the city of Lima Muslim. So, from that time
when you had the schismatics in the early times, from the time of
the karate, all the way up to the formulation of the creed of Imam
Abu Jaffa to Javi, who wrote by on from that he will Jamara This
demonstrates to us that the Bayana Sumati, will Jamar what is known
as an RP da Javier was to unite the body of the Muslims, which
became known as the Sunnah T will DEVAR that I had assumed our
agenda today. You could say that the selfish claim that there is no
agenda. And then you have the the larger body of Muslims, which is
the shadows and the majorities, the followers of the full schools,
the average also the 100 villa, how do we reconcile between the
seller fees today and when I say seller fees, I mean, at the bottom
up, sorry, hello thing is later figures like solid healthy mean,
beating bars, pasta dinner labelling, how do we reconcile
them with the traditional eyeshadows and the followers of
the full schools? Well, the only way of reconciling them is coming
to a common ground in terms of what that if we say to them, when
it comes to tafsir, we, we go to the Tafseer of Apple if he dies,
Miley Winterfield for instance, who they accept, we look at the
Philadelphia from his tafsir you will find that they will be many
pilaf issues, if we always refer back to the Tafseer of it in here.
Or if when it comes to the Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. We look at the
commentaries or hedger on Alibaba. Now we are classical commentaries
as a reference point, rather than looking at Mohammed bin Abdullah
and the post Mohammed bin Abdullah movement. Go back to the classical
commentaries, you will find that there is no common ground, bring
them back to the MME in the sense that they must come back to the
mothership if they do if they have a dislike for the Hanafi school.
Then come back to the chef at school come back to the the humbly
school and the traditional positions of those schools you
check the positions of ignore Kodama Makdessi Rahim Allah, in
his ad money, they go in line with the main party of Muslims. So that
is the only way I believe we can reconcile with the selfies is that
if they come back to the traditional mainstream Hanabi that
as well as the Shaeffer isn't the other photos of the four schools
with regard to the sheer
they we can never unite in terms of creepy the sheer because they
they're very assessed. The foundation is totally different to
us. It starts from believing the obligation of Allah to send down
our ima it starts from believing the companions were deviated from
not selecting Satan idea of the Allah or and, and believing that
the Companions rejected imam of Satan earlier Beulah one from the
very inception in this Inception points are not common grounds for
us to share with the Shia. But with the selfies there is we can
go back to Beyonce tonight, you will generically remember to Javi.
We have the classical broad tradition of 1200 years of
commentary upon the words of Hadith, that we can all refer back
to those types of Salafi who abandoned the modern
interpretation of the Salafi movement and go back to that
traditional understanding we can unite with in terms of creed. I'm
mentioning this in terms of creed, as with regard to CRC, then that
is a different issue all together.
Okay, so the way I looked at it is and you answered a number of these
unity, is it between anyone who identifies as Muslim or Arizona
who answered this, then, if that's the case, then we need to know
what is the very simple definition of Addison in the sense of what do
I do? What do I have to avoid?
To be outside of medicine because the default of a Muslim is brought
to them, these innocent of all things, but there are only certain
things to do that will put you outside of medicine. And that's a
question we'll take to shake acid and then we'll then go to the
interaction between the two because the reason I say this
identitarian is that
The progressives and liberals
do they identify as Muslims, but some of their beliefs are so out.
So out there, we need to know how far out there makes me now alter
my behavior towards you even know if you call yourself a Muslim.
Okay, so again, this has a lot to unpack here. The way that I view
this is that this is not a binary, it's not a black and white
situation either unify or not. On the contrary, what I say is that
there's what I have called the circles of cooperation, circles of
cooperation, depending on which circle you're interested in your,
your actual diameter is going to be your circumference is going to
be different, who's inside of it is going to be different,
different. And the narrowest circle, the most, you know,
obviously, the most conservative or the smallest circle is going to
be who do I invite to my Mr. To give the Hotbot? Who's going to be
my Slavic studies teacher, that is the most narrow one for that
definition. I would want somebody who has the Taleem of the Quran
and Sunnah. Somebody who respects the fact that, you know, there is
something called the news source that is absolutely, there is no
question when Allah and His messenger say something that is
the end of it. And of course, this would automatically imply for me
what I call generics and ism, because obviously, you have to
respect the book. So the sooner you have to respect the Sahaba,
you can't really have to Aleem of the knots, in my opinion, the way
that I wanted. And again, this is going to differ from person to
person. So I personally, I'm going to cast a wide net that as long as
you are what are called generic Sunni and what is the generic
Sunni as I said, most important is that they have a theological
respect of the Sahaba that the Sahaba are not going to lie the
Sahaba are trustworthy narrators of the Quran. Number two that
overall they have the generic after the of the six Afghan of
Hadith of Djibouti. So if somebody makes any kind of other, that's
kind of sorta, you know, not mainstream anymore, they've gone
they've, you know, lost the plot here. Now this would necessitate
that they respect our to Earth and tradition, broadly speaking, me
personally, I, I understand there are variations within that.
terasse. But as long as you understand that, you know, the
coach of Asuna Dakota, Bella hadith is a unifying factor. In
the end of the day, we all study even hijab in the end of the day,
we all study, you know, the great icons of Lula and FFC, even if
personal preference is one might say, be a lobby, there's been
Kathy, I personally am okay. It's not it's not a big deal. If you
prefer bread lobby over Ben Kathy, this is within the mainstream. So
I, in my mystery, we have a very clear policy because I'm in charge
of,
you know, in terms of theological people who can come in not, we
have a very broad base. And if you look at the people that have come
theologically, they're all different stripes, you know, I, I
don't want to enforce a narrow stripe upon the masjid going, but
I do have my red lines, nobody who curses the Sahaba is going to get
to preach in my masjid, you know, nobody who denies an Austin maroon
Medora Azmuth, the subset is going to come to my masjid and preach.
So that's the narrowest go a little bit broader than this.
Building Islamic schools, financing budgets, I'm not going
to do a vetting of your personality that even if you have
views that are not within mainstream, but hey, we're coming
together, sending our kids to the same school, that Islamic school
in America, we need lots of people to come together, you know, it's
going to be a little bit broader, a little bit broader than that.
political engagement, political engagement against a Islamophobic
you know, a person, right, we want to say we as Muslims disagree with
this Islamophobe, right. We want him to be out of offices come
together and rally and whatnot. In this case, I might even get people
that I don't view as Muslims, but they identify as Muslims. Right,
there are Filipinos out there that are so like, you know, the
designers, let's see, be very, very, very, very blunt here.
Right? You know, they're after either is not within the
mainstream because they don't pray and they don't fast. That's that's
way beyond the red line, you know, but you know, what, for political
campaigning, to fight against an Islamophobe to come together and
and have some type of issue politically speaking, and I'm not
vetting their athletes that are given homeless, so I'll make that
even broader in this regard. So this is your first issue and that
is unity. The second issue, how do we go about, like, what are really
the red lines if you like, I would say that the real the real red
line is where we say this person is simply not Yanni, you know,
within Islam is obviously the candidate. Right? So anybody who
denies you and Elijah heilala, Muhammad Rasul Allah Now,
obviously, there's going to be a little bit discussion here but a
part of denying the Kadima is to really not have any rebuttal.
Because when you say La ilaha illa, Allah there is no deity
worthy of worship other than Allah, there must be worship. So
those groups that don't have worship and don't have rituals and
don't have the mainstream of Sharia, I don't view them as
having fulfilled the first stroke. And then of course the only hot
Minobu is for me a clear red line and I've given a very I got a lot
of trouble online but it is what it is the only Muhammad Rasul
Allah so I sent him there is no question there is a red line
beyond what you are not a Muslim. So anybody who believes that there
is white
After the in Qatar, you know, of our processes and after the way
Congress has stopped coming down upon him, why he continued upon
another person, this person is outside of the deen of Islam. So
that person we will say you are not. Even if you identify as a
Muslim, we don't consider you to be a Muslim. Now, even that person
in my estimation and opinion, we say we don't consider those, but
we're not going to do anything physical where do we do physical,
only those who become violent, only those who are actually
killing other people, such as the extreme hydrates and whatnot.
Those are the people where we will band together and we will say, not
only do we not view you as being Orthodox and mainstream, but we
don't we don't want your existence on earth because you are harming
our existence. And my also for this is the policy of immediate
meaning ideal the law what's out and about the people of know how,
when and how and the how to rock the original hot objects, right?
What did he say to them as it was reported in poverty because he
What did he say to them when you tried to debate and 1/3 of them
remain and they were adamant they're not going to change their
after either? He said to them, they said, No, I didn't consider
it. We have no right to force you to give up your after either. As
long as you do not harm us. You are unto Masha Allah can you do as
you do? I can't force you. You know, I've entered to criminality
according what mean, you can't force people to believe so I did
know the Allah one instituted the policy of toleration and not
acceptance. This is a key point. We don't accept you. We don't like
the Euro theology. And this is what I applied to all Monson non
Sunni groups. In fact, all groups that I don't agree with, I don't
agree with you, but I'm not going to become violent. I'm not going
to exile you I'm not going to try to try to want to harm you. But
I'm not going to agree with you. i Where will I say no? We need to
become come together and protect and I don't want you to be around
on earth when you're killing when you're *, pillaging,
plundering, which is what I do the alarm did when the house a lot
when the original Hutterites killed Mohammed bin Ahmad vinyasa,
right and his wife when they killed him, that's when he sent
the Army goes Enough is enough. We can't allow it to exist. So that's
my two cents. Would it be Would you agree with the simple dictum
that anyone who disagrees with that which is known in religion by
necessity, I don't want to watch you can count these things and
recite them in a few minutes. That that is the line that exits
someone outside of Islam because when you take take the shahada and
you say the Kadima teen, there is an assumption there of what you
are entering. When you say the word Islam.
Theoretically, yes, you realistically, practically
specific issues might vary from time to place to era. Okay, but
theoretically that is the nucleus. And now ideally sooner would be
defined slightly narrower than that, that that which is Qatari,
it is explicit, but not so well known, but it is explicit. There's
no debate about No, no, that's I had assumed that would be defined
as going back to the Sunnah, as, as the books of Hadith that we are
all in agreement upon. That's what I had assumed that is right,
because theoretically, all the group's pre pre modern groups
believe that the Prophet system is worthy of being followed. Even the
more visited didn't deny that right. What makes a sunnah and the
Sunnah, is the fact that they followed a particular trajectory
of how we know the Sunnah, okay, theoretically, no, Ethan actually
is going to say I'm not going to follow the promises. That's cool
for you. This is a very modern notion that has come from the
Quran, a une pre modernity, no sect of Islam actually made in car
of following etbr Nibi solution and that is Mr. Hill accent. You
can't imagine a Muslim saying that. So the actual trade off then
is what is different and not following the theoretical
construct because for one group it is the Imams right for them. That
is the Sunnah and we're like no, I'm sorry, bro. Allah didn't
appoint one person to represent the Prophet system. I have to
disagree with you. You know I personally don't make defeat and
mass of that group. I don't I'm very clear. They are 100 be that
this is the definition of added but I this is what led me that was
when the term was invented this code because they do not cover and
they have another source of law, which is the Imams and whatnot.
But I don't make tech feed and mass I don't make the food of the
group at all. And if they come to our Masjid fine and an army
amongst them, I might I might pray, but definitely not somebody
who I know make sub Sahaba or I know make Stein or mother Archer
Would not I have never prayed and I don't ever plan to prevent
somebody who does that type of theological difference. So no,
it's a bit more precise than that is
the Sunnah are those who take their theologies from the
mainstream books of Hadith and Sunnah which, for example, implies
Kedah, right, because the other group doesn't believe in God
because they don't follow the books of sunnah, for example,
implies respecting the idea of the Sahaba as a generic rule that I
either not going to lie about the D these are these words
Things that come from our tradition lower. Okay, sugar.
Quick definition. As I said, I posited something sick yesterday
posited something else took yesterday said, the Sunni as soon
as defined by returning back to the books of Asana, for your
theology, I had said that I had a sunnah is that or remove someone
from medicine is denying that which is cut explicit in both the
Quran or the Hadith. So what is your response to this? Yes, with
regard to that, so why I mentioned the athlete or heavy Rahimullah
was because the Creed contains tenets of faith. Because the
entire Creek it's actually very intelligently composed. It
contains that which is my Alma don't say, Dean, the dura and Alma
along with the ruler and the Sunnah contains both. So when you
go through the texts, you will notice there are points that if
you reject them, a person will become a carfit. But there are
other points, like almost silent profane, that if a person rejects,
he would not be deemed a caliphate, but he will be deemed
al Qaeda. How do we display a distinction between these two
types of tenants with regard to a manometer Rudra Dean? It's up
there Darrell and it is trouble it established through Quran or
mutawatir Hadith, but it signification is also Qatari,
meaning what it refers to is known to the common man when he reads
it. The motherlode is well known, what is signified is well known,
but there are tenets of faith that may not be in Hadith mutawatir or
they may be in the Quran or in the motor worker Hadith, but the
methylone what it signifies is not clear cut to the the layperson but
there is each Miranda meaning. So each bar is a source of local and
Sunnah Valdemar the Ismar as a source of logos only rejected by
the more Zilla and the Shia near the centuries later, Ashoka Annie
adopted this when when Ashoka and when you summarize Zarqa Xi's book
in full and Philip, when he summarized that he placed the
rejection of EMR as a source of law.
A common misconception amongst people with EMR entails EMR for
everyone when in reality, it just entailed EMR and he had the people
of HD had. So if there is a tenet of v, which is not your data, but
Don Knuth
or it is oto for booth, one new data that can fall under along
with the older and the Sunnah. And if it is coupled with each bar, of
course, it falls under an unknown bit the ruler in the Sunnah. So
that is why the decreed the Howey is a unifying creed. It's
something that should never be understated. It's a unifying
creed. If that becomes let's say, in the Western Hemisphere, we have
an agreement that this is the creed of all the Sunni Muslims and
they will not go against the any tenant found in this creed, you
will have a unifying factor that the daddy cost of later or lemma
can cause it enough like iMobile Rizal Hanafi as his commentary on
the Sahaba but then you have the Ashari classical commentaries like
Abdulghani Lamia make Danny's commentary, when you compare the
two there are certain things which are added in by IP mobile is or
even not sort of denial and ban he he rejects passages from the Taha
here like the passage which mentions the six directions, that
Allah is not contained by the six directions or Allah is not a does
not have a word or instrument he rejects it. So this rejection it
violates the unity of Atlas and that upon a creed like the Taha
via. So a modern update can be an actual commentary on the Taha we
are adding a new issues, like evolution theory is the response
to modern response to evolutionary theory, the modern response to
various gopher type beliefs that are being promulgated today. But
in short, that is what I mean by Alma along with the Rohde and
Sunnah. Okay, good. So now we discussed, we discussed that now,
we discussed that unity is within Arizona, we discuss different
definitions of Arizona. When we talk about how to interact we're
not most viewers are not going to be responsible for some
institutions. They will be responsible for who their kids
play with, what families they invite to dinner, who they marry.
So there is in practical implication on how we act if
someone is outside of Islam altogether.
either while claiming to be a Muslim, or is an innovator, okay
with with our definition that we gave is in mock data. And our
religion warns us from such interactions like nobody who works
at NBC would possibly hang out with anyone who ever hung out with
the kk k. Right? So they have a concept of disavow every group of
people, Muslims, Jews, Christians, liberals, everyone has a concept
of disavow, that I can't even be seen with this person. Well, our
religion also points us to that. All right, it says that certain
groups, certain there's a limit to who you're going to befriend and
keep their company, the regular Muslim
educated lady or not must, you know, deal with this, because
every, I don't want to say every family of my Allah protect the
different families. But
every community, every group of friends is going to have somebody
who may be outside one of these circles. Now we need to know how
do we interact? Alright, so shook. So that's where yes, we talked
about masajid. And that stuff was all good. I understood that
circle. I liked that and paradigm of the circles. But now let's get
more granular, regular Muslim guy, my neighbor is, I don't know
something else. They don't go to our Masjid. Right. But there's
something else like, you can see, there's a lot of possible
confusion that could happen.
So, in my humble opinion, actually, this is not a
mathematical equation that you can apply. Rather, it's a common sense
and intuition. And it will vary from time to place to culture to
circumstance, right? It's just overall, you use your common sense
and intuition. And you weigh the pros and cons for every single
opportunity in person. And it might vary. So for example, for
example, if there is a neighborhood watch that all the
neighbors have to come together, we recognize everybody we know,
just to get the stranger come in such an audience and gathering
you're not going to worry about their IP does this is now you're
coming together again, goes back to my circles of cooperation, by
the way, right, your neighbor, whether you like it or not, he
lives next to you. And for the sake of your kids in your
community, there should be some rapport and some positive
friendships so that you can protect each other in case of
calamities, you know, you want your neighbor to be there if your
children eat and vice versa. So I don't believe our religion is like
that, such that we have to be, you know, so divisive, that even if I
disagree with my neighbor, I cannot be polite, or I cannot
invite them over. But if somebody is harmful to your, you know,
religion, or Dean or your children's, then that's a
different thing altogether. So that's why even our tradition, the
Sunni tradition, actually makes the distinction between a die a
little bit up in between a person of Buddha, a die, either leader
was not given the same treatment as a person of Buddha, right? Even
our own tradition has this within the Masada within the Hadith.
Also, and I think this is a simple common sense is that your neighbor
happens to be born in Iran, he follows a different strand of
Islam. He's an innocent, I'm the guy right doesn't even know
anything, what not, he's not calling to anything, he's just
your neighbor, are you going to treat him like you would treat
somebody who's going to tell your children about the bait, and while
we're in New Zealand, whatnot, you know, there's a difference between
the two. So I think there's a common sense that comes here, that
is a person going to bring harm to you or your children, in which
case, you'll have your guard up. And you also interact with them
when they need you versus
that is actually a methodology because more so than an instinct,
because you mentioned for example, harm. You mentioned measurement of
harm. You mentioned, for example, the neighborhood watch versus what
was the other example, you said, the day it had been? Right? Or
things so you do have a thought process here, because someone, I'm
gonna say, Listen, I want a playbook. I don't want to go judge
my instinct, my instinct could be corrupted, my instinct could be
influenced, I want to play. There's no equation, though you
weigh the Masada and the faster you weigh the pros and cons.
That's what the Shediac says, you know.
So there are certain things you look at. But the point is, I can't
give you a definitive list because things might change next year,
there could be another issue where another thing is added to this
list. There are certain things that will never change, you know,
is this person preaching something that is like, let's just be very
controversial, I mean, to people that is having gender parity
together, right. And there you enable any inviting them over is
it's a different game. It's a totally different issue in front
of your kids, you know, inviting them over and normalizing that is
not the same as somebody who's born in Iran, for example, you
see, I'm saying, you know, big difference. So there's a level of
common sense here that the overall goal as there's a heavy thinner
Muslim American but not yet called the hammock, a letter T. Nobody
should eat your food except a machete. Now, the goal here is
that not that you don't share your food to the hermit to feed there's
a
A meeting here, which is that those whom you make muscle habit
with those whom you're the closest to, they should have a level of
Taqwa that's beneficial to you and your family. Right? This is a
common sense here, your closest friend, your closest group of
family friends should have overall positive influence on you and your
children. That's a common sense issue here. However, yeah, I'm
just saying society dictates that you cannot cut off from people
that are that would totally completely be a world we live in,
you're going to associate with them, but they don't have to be
your best friends. And you might have to invite them over for
Business meeting for the community, or neighborhood watch.
Right? But that's not masahisa. Right. So that's all I'm saying.
That's Manasa. So let me ask you one more question. You mentioned
the broad net of Edison. And let's say for masajid, hooked up
classes, Islamic schools, I want to say that there is a practical
element to where that's that that may run into when you're dealing
with a lot of people and you want to take a lot of people up a
mountain, right? You sort of need one GPS. And it doesn't mean that
we're going to pitch a fight, pick a fight with that group or another
group. Right. But if you want to take people and you have a
community, for example, and you're teaching something, even for the
floor, if they're constantly getting different opinions,
practically speaking, that leads a young person to a lot of just
confusion and intimidation of knowledge. Whereas if I took a
young person, I said, Listen, all of us, we're going to study this
book, there are many other books, but this is what we're going to
study for the next 10 years. They at least will be very competent in
that book. And then you could tell them, Okay, there are we told you,
there are many other books out there at least you're not
competent in this min hedge, whether it be off to EDA or FIP.
In contrast, let's observe masajid where
different Monette heads are coming in different giving different
classes, those kids, they tend to be like, I don't know what's what,
right. I never finished one set book, I don't know what anything
is. So they are definitely good. They're good in their D in their
in their masajid. But they can't put A and B together. So I'm just
saying practically speaking, in terms of it's not division, but
its practicality. Yeah, much can be unpacked here. I would say that
the larger the community and the bigger the audience you have the
lower the bar has to be for the sake of unity. So if you have like
a small neighborhood masjid, and your your close group is coming
there, that's very different than having one of the largest
mysteries in America with shirtless 700 people for budget,
okay? You cannot Wallah, you're going to come off as a bigoted
sectarian. Yeah, and you're gonna cause bigger fitna, when you have
a very narrow definition of who are we going to invite to lead the
Sudan give the hope and whatnot, you have to be very open. However,
inviting somebody for a one off lecture is not the same as hiring
a resident scholar, correct? Yep. That's the whole point here. No,
no, in our community, we have an understanding that, hey, we're
going to invite people in a fairly broad spectrum, and they're going
to come and they will be welcome. And they're going to feel welcome.
But in the end of the day, I'm gonna feel welcome. When I come
out in October
of this hour, now, you're more than welcome.
There's even a fight coming at the end of October and Joe and
Charlotte grid, I didn't know that text me the dates and everything.
Right? Okay. But I also want to flip the script back to you and
say, Hey, don't we need to teach our community that the world is a
very multicolored, multifaceted place, and that it's not just this
isolated, you know, laboratory pure, pristine environment, they
should be made aware. And in fact, and again, not to get too
personal. But let's just say, these types of things have
happened in the past where particular people came that were
not necessarily on my wavelength. And people did come and ask me,
Hey, aren't you sending conflicting messages? When you
invite somebody that says this? And then you say that and I say
maybe to the person won't be attended one in one, maybe, but
for my audience who regularly attends No, I want to raise the
bar of intelligence and raise the bar of actual fifth that hey,
realize that even if I disagree, he's still my brother to stop and
I give him the platform and I allow him to spread an idea that's
not stopped for a libre it's not antithetical to Allah and his
messenger man, let's let's go back to reality. They're not preaching
against Allah will be love. They have a slightly different
understanding that okay, it goes back 1000 years and no problem
hamdulillah so I'm actually teaching intelligence and
tolerance in what I'm trying to do.
And I agree with that in terms of awareness and in terms of general
Dini wealth, we we call Dawa I'm but for practicalities purposes,
if you run an institution, and you're educating the curriculum
Yeah, that goes back to yeah, yes. When it comes to educate
Getting and Tobia, advanced students. Yes. As I said, Your
narrowest your narrow circle is going to be you know who you so
yeah, I understand, bro. Maybe, for example, you wouldn't want me
to teach AP data in certain institutions no problem that will
lie I understand no problem. By the way, you're more than welcome
to come to ours. You're always welcome. You're always welcome at
NBC and I think you can't. Yeah, but my point is that I understand
that people have, you know, different views in this regard.
And yes, when you're teaching actual attune to advanced
students, you can't expect them to study different mazahub From the
beginning and get go fully, fully, fully on board with that, okay.
Okay, great. So I love this circle of engagement model, because it
makes a lot of circles of cooperation. Now shifts are not
final say on, because we will have two minutes to wrap up and shift
yesterday, we have to respect his hard stop at the 30 mark. So we'll
be what 730 To you, 230 here and 130 in Texas.
Your final comments on this matter of interaction practically
speaking, what is your guidance to people practically speaking,
marriage, friendship, neighbors, all these things Muslims need to
navigate these. And the quick and easy way out is oh, we're almost
done. Let's have a good heart. Let's have a clean heart. That's a
quick way out. The harder it's the more more consistent way out is no
there is a more armella with everyone based on the
relationship. So based upon that, what's your closing? I would say
this issue relates to FIP. Very simply put, if the Sahibi bidder
is a person who will affect your creed, then it's haram to
associate with Him. If the socket will be the I will influence you
in his bidder then it's it's impermissible to associate with
him. Similarly,
if however, you influence the socket will be that meaning the
lay the lay person, the Sunni lay person will influence the socket
with data and and guide him then this is encouraged if he's able to
do that, as for the Allameh they are permitted the altimeter Merkin
is permitted to interact with albida because he has L and he has
Tama coming in his end with regard to calling people to your Masjid
to lecture if theoretically if people like in America, you and
Dr. Yasser
you Dr. Yasser has accommodated you in his Masjid. Now in here in
our community, we have a concept which is known as a circle Cooley
which you cannot associate with people have innovation, you do not
go to the massage, you do not lecture in their massage, they do
not come to Masjid. In America, the situation is slightly
different. But you have an individual like Dr. Yasser now is
very accommodating. I would say that the acid official creed is
let's say they assume that you will develop to Howie, everything
after that is totally caught. It's just totally caught. And he will
only discuss that with the Allamah he does not need to convey or
preach views which are going to confuse people even more. When
when people ask him the common man asked him, What is your creed
refers back to the hobby creed. And then you have the form of that
tradition. The form of that buys a broad tradition. So we have a very
broad tradition, where a Maliki can share very humbly Hanafy we
have a medallion or bar to go back to. So we're not limited to a
narrow a narrow tradition of localized orlimar from a region
like a particular region. For instance, niche scholars have not
limited to that. Within the Arabian Peninsula, you have the
likes of the Aqsa, Oliver. If you look at the asset AXA on the mind,
Saudi in Arabia, you will notice they have the format. in Makkah,
they have the form of the hips, and this is why I say dabbas Allah
we said to me, whenever you give fatwa always refer back to the
fatwa my father said the other day I said, why? He said, because
we're from Alberta, and we would always interact with all the
various types of Muslims who would come from Africa, from Asia, from
Europe from various parts of the world. And we would keep the
broadest of fatwas. So I would say, Allah, sunnah will Jabara in
America, it should be defined as to how we creed. You can add the
shifa all the rehab, and the full mud huts. And then anyone who
brings in public new debates, which are unheard of, they should
be reprimanded that book you should be discussing this with
orlimar not with the public. Because the scene in America seems
very different Britain in Britain, if someone does
bring up an issue of contention the public is well informed with
regard to those things. Hyde Park tells you everything but Britain
and Hyde Park is child's play compared to Birmingham, in
Birmingham, and many Hyde Park is nothing you come to Birmingham at
the sophistication I hope so is higher than height high art. So
the this question is final question relates to physical
muamalat and is much more nuanced. There are up classical books
written on this. Remember that he addresses it in here along with
Dede anima, Musa under brawny addresses in Seville Najat Imam
Makoto Han addresses it in Fatah al Haramain, the rich fi network
remake, it's addressed for daytime, but application today, I
would advise people to go back to Medina and herba and the credo the
Monica Javi. Wonderful. Thank you very much. Now I know we
disappointed many viewers who thought that they were going to
see fireworks on a debate on the classical Messiah and
so let's leave them so that they are not totally disappointed with
one little spark. Which is that sick a straw his if I want to sit
with this chick? That's not what kind of restaurant is this?
Seafood Restaurant? Burger Joint Steakhouse, I know what it is.
It's Sid creed. I know what I'm gonna get if I study with him,
that we have a name for it, because it signifies certain
things. If you come to Safina Saudi, you're gonna get the same
thing. Now, shift Yes, it throws spark in your direction.
Someone says I want to study with GPS. I want to join that study was
like seminary, Islamic seminary. Yeah. So I need to know well, what
kind of
menu am I going to get? What kind? What is the guiding principles of
this updated? But you are, have declared many times that you are
POST method? Yeah, so method is merely a signifier of a
methodology. So it's fair for me to ask what is your methodology in
studying Aikido? So I despise the generic Sunni, as I said, I
respect the Sahaba respect the books of the tradition or whatnot.
I don't identify as a card carrying member of any of these
other strands that have come after the fourth fifth century. And I
respect all of them. I don't have any idea what in my heart, but you
have to understand the Islamic Seminary is not meant to teach at
the beginning thought of building level it's meant as the graduate
level. So we we are not meant to teach somebody who is literally
studying like any, you know, the data of anything, we're actually
going to it is about to be the accredited master's level Seminary
in North America. So it is meant to teach more mature students. Of
course, ideally, they should have a strong Sophia, even if they
don't the first few lessons, we give them that Sophia so that they
move on. So if you were to study the Islamic seminary, for example,
no, would you study with you? Yes, yes, yes, yes, surely you would
understand why your menu is different than both these menu
which is different than Medina's menu which is different than us as
menu you would understand where these menus came from, you would
understand to come here and compare and contrast them and
understand the, the the context from within which each came about
why are these items on the menu right on this area and not over
here. So our program is to basically get the bird's eye view
and go 3d Not just to go, you know, to understand specifically
there. And overall, we teach you the tool so that you feel more
empowered to then to then understand where these menus come
from. And then the end of the day, I'll give you what I prefer on
them and you're no problem. But there's a difference between our
seminary and between what I do in the masjid Hatha, I don't spoon
feed you what I want you to believe at the seminary, I will do
to my students and hudec on the Masjid. Yes, because it was about
that. Tell us about that when you build someone up from zero, so So
I do not personally I do not want to them to be sectarian and I'm
very against this personally, I don't want them to have in their
heart, any type of actual Hector or a deal or looking down upon
anybody who has a habit of Allah and the Sunnah of the Prophet. So
I said, right, so I don't really get into the advanced
controversies. At that level. I think it is a mistake to teach a
moped edit, or modify, edit these types of controversies and I'll
teach them the top of it. So in my mystery, what we do is like our
binder, we will do like the basic Tafseer we'll do like stuff that
is human building and get in our bio via for example, I go into the
controversial Messiah at a very bird's eye view that hey, some
people said this, some people said this, but in sha Allah, you know,
this is what unites us. So I think we build their Iman, again, what I
call upon Hadith Jibreel, generic Satanism. I personally don't like
an especially in the American context of the Assad is coming
from the British context. I don't know if he's visited America now
but we have a very different dynamics here. And I don't think
it is healthy to
to pigeonhole, you know, our massages and our youth into a very
narrow definition of Satanism, a very narrow definition of Islamic
law. Give them an opinion and say respect the other opinions out
there. mulloway
zecco. Okay. That was their final final question for SIG acid on
this methodology of teaching. Peter Schiff, thank you very much
for coming on. Do you have one final? We'll see it for all of us.
Yes. Just to
mention that in Chatelet when Dr. Yasser comes to Britain, inshallah
we will meet up and we will discuss some of these finer points
in private, shallow, there are other and we have much to discuss
in person in sha Allah.
Like when I met you, Dr. Shadi and UK, and but as you said, We're
from the same tradition Ashati.
In terms of Madame Madame Alba, we have four schools to refer back to
it's a broad tradition. And because it's a broad tradition,
it's very practical in America as well if you promote format, and
then within the format that you have so many Roma that you know,
just look at an image more sharper and better, but we must know we
the size of the book, and then subkeys addendum to the book, it
just shows you the broadness of the listener will jemar But
inshallah inductee acid or the comes to a UK, we will meet up in
sha Allah, I've never been to America and to avoid America. But
when Dr. Yousif comes here, inshallah we'll meet up and
discuss some of these things in private in sha Allah. All right,
wonderful. Thank you both for coming on. Hope everyone benefited
and all the viewers took some good thermometer and brought our OMA
together and showed how we could talk about matters and most
importantly, this. There's so many
groups, organizations, billions of dollars that are trying to shred
Muslims apart, but more even more important bliss is behind all of
this division and sectarian between Muslims and that's
something that shakey has to emphasize, if you're putting
Ramadan which if Estrada, emphasize so 100 I was great to
have you both here and be able to talk about these matters and
inshallah Tada we can do it again some time and maybe also in person
Subotica la humo the hammock Nisha Illa Illa. Anta Mustapha Requena
to would equal also in Santa Fe of course Illallah Dena me no me no
sorry her to Ottawa. So we'll hop over to our sub sub. was Sarah
muddy