Muslim vs Ex-Muslim
Channel: Mohammed Hijab
File Size: 29.13MB
Mothers are people
living in the future that safe for them child who comes along with
what power do they have? In this country, they still do have a lot of power but just not the weight of the law and the general society but within the community, a family they have a hell of a lot of power.
Yeah, except once a while would say is like general law
with his son became a disbeliever. This time.
Okay, what happened?
In Genesis 922?
That's something else. Okay. I will say that.
While I say that, hopefully I plead to the people that are watching this why people like my money. Honestly, the best thing
you can do with someone who's anomalous for change, and this change
is to be kind to them, and
you want to try and bring it back to us? That's okay. That's my perspective. If they don't want to do that, in this case, it's like I'm disappointed and you have to
watch. But you don't see that this seems to be some extra either hatred or extra need to change or convert us than the general car guy.
Because what it is, is you've seen the trailer Yeah, exactly. What you've done. I'm not gonna lie to you, is seen as one of the worst things you can do. Let me tell you something that maybe someone when you say that is one of the worst things you can do. That's just that's just an example of how bullying this religion is and how it forces people. And let me say, let me say something Why?
People don't know this. Yeah.
Some people always ask the question where they say that how comes like if you're born into a Muslim family?
have an advantage? If you look at from a theological perspective, it means that only if Islam is true, yeah, if Islam is true, and you're born into a Muslim family,
so they think why would somebody in the starting lineup already? Yeah.
When decides to go to the bank? Try it all from a much more less advantaged position. Exactly. The reason is, is because I'm intellectually honest, and I looked at the arguments for why Islam is true. And there's no good.
No good reason to believe Islam is true.
Questions don't know what I was gonna say in this question. How do you know, in Islam, they say you say an atheist, and this is gonna sound so controversial.
This is gonna
change the general general person, like, you don't say atheist, any non
Christian or whatever.
We know that for uninformed, 48. He says,
God, forgive that person
who just shared with him because he knows why he figures whoever else, whoever, whoever else walks, yeah,
he's one of those things that you die upon it genuinely is the idea that you should be in a total hellfire. However, people don't realize that there is a notable exception to this rule, which is mentioned in chapter 17, verse 15. of
people want to send them the messenger folders in the seat of this verse. And all of us are the ones with mega mega versus alfetta. It takes a while.
Yeah, people have.
Anyways, all of these verses indicate to us if someone for example, died in atheist, yeah. Why he didn't know any like, for example, he lives in the Bible Belt, or you're not a Christian. He's never heard of Islam, never heard of slack. Yeah.
We can't say that person has gone to that person to go to heaven, according to the sun, because then you'll be judged on his actions. Because what will happen according to theology of Islam, is that and there's a hadith on this. He will be trolled independently on the Day of Judgment.
When his judgment be based on God will give him a specified tailor judgment, you get what I'm saying? If you don't know nothing about it, you don't you don't know what
You could have been a rapist or murderer, or a charitable person. Yeah, so that really matters as far as I'm gay, right? So what I'm gonna do is basically, according to that logic,
like to jump into a fire and he doesn't like having trusting God, but obviously God will tell him anyway, the point being, is that there'll be an independent judgment for that person. So what I'm saying is, and this is an important point, where the where the assumption was that Muslims have a natural born advantage because they're born into a Muslim family. Actually, the truth is that you could have more of a problem as a Muslim, born in a Muslim family and because you've been exposed to the message, I
If you are an atheist,
atheism and the atheist,
but the thing is, I don't really care, because the fact is you can only care if I thought it was true, whereas I found out is very unlikely to be true. So I really don't care. Because so what are you doing to me to threaten me with the Hellfire for being in a situation where I should have respected that God gave me an advantage? Guess what? You could say that.
I'm a friendly guy, but you're trying to make me think that there is a bigger reason for me to not leave Islam. Because there's a bigger concept that I just want. I'm telling you that first you have to establish that is true. Firstly, I know an agreement establishes true. There's no good reason for me to listen to this question. Obviously, the reason why I told you this is because I just want to show you that this was a misconception that people have Okay, it was nothing. It was not necessarily directly to you, although it doesn't have something like yeah, it's relevant. Yeah, it's relevant. Yeah. Okay. Now, let me ask you, because
there is just a problem. You have to send it. Yeah.
I left Islam because when I was younger, I used to be a Muslim. I used to go to mosque, to pray.
Intellectual I used to love reading books. Yes, I found out about a lot of other ways of looking at the world, which were very different from Islam and definitely contradicting something came into my head. Maybe it's not true.
In fact, my parents forced me to think it was true. So I said, You know what, I could find out loads of different things about things. But am I ever gonna know which is true, unless I'd be intellectually honest. And being intellectually honest means I will accept the things I think I know, the things I think, possibly find out and the things I think, I don't know.
I'm registering again, I'm trying to be as effective as possible. I want to know where you're coming from.
I want to teach, you know, like
you said that there's certain things are outside of the
epistemological framework of Islam. However, I usually realize that they contradicted the Slammers. So what were the things that you realize, for example, that there's another there's another religion, which claims to have a God, which is a different God from from the Islamic one? So how do I know which is the true Good? Good question? That's a good question, though. I like I like a Christian, I'm gonna say something someone was asking me a question today. He said to me, how do you know is that why am I he asked me to open like dolphins the question, why humans? Why Muslim? We actually asked me that question. It's on the video.
I said to him, the reason why I am a Muslim, first and foremost, because number one, I believe that the most coherent explanation for why we are here, and the creation of the universe is that there was one singular entity that created the universe, and that we should worship, therefore, that doesn't help Islam, because the Christian could say that, and it would be very much answer. This is what I said to my continued.
Actually, when I looked at
when I looked at other religions, like, for example, if you look at the six or seven major world religions, my contention I'm sure, I'm sure you would actually agree with is that when it comes to uncompromising monotheism
is the most strict. So for example, the Christian Christian Christian faith, to do the truth? No, I mean, I know but my premise was that I believe that the most coherent explanation for the universe,
being in existence and being maintained all that kind of stuff, was that there was one singular entity, which we call, let's say, Allah, God, whatever you want to call it. And then this entity is brought right to the universe.
Yeah, I can't see a good reason for thinking that because I used to think that and then when I realized that there was actually physical explanations for pretty much everything that we normally hope got in position or
unnecessary, it's unnecessary to make up any of them. Right. So like, you know, from an Islamic perspective,
his books that he makes you have to be honest. He was saying was that and he even said this to Robert Helms resources when he met.
Oh, yeah. Outside that door. Yeah.
And he goes, Well, you know, you believe in God answers prayers on this immersive for understand that.
He's right, yeah, you cannot prove every attribute of God.
I don't think you can prevent us, okay, but you can't even prove him.
This is what I want to say to you is that I understand what you're doing. And I appreciate the fact that we're back to having a proper conversation. But really, what it comes down to is, what's the starting point? The point is, we have to accept that the universe exists.
We don't accept the universe exists, then we don't exist. But I'm asking you a question. Yeah. But let me let me because when we start from is crucial, when we do start from these liberal universities, I believe the universe exists. You believe. I believe that I exist and you believe you. I believe I have rationality, and you believe you have rationality. Now we can start from here.
would be the student these things, and we both assumed them. Yeah. Let's have a conversation. Okay. Now why do you think God exists? Okay. I'm going to put forward an argument. pushing
with limited variables.
The coffee house,
dependable something else?
Anything that's in existence here? Yeah. That has limited variables.
Doesn't everything have limited variables if the universe turns out not to be okay, that's the point of everything about observation, which has limited variables to everything. Yeah. Okay.
Everything that we can currently see in it
depends upon something else except that.
I don't know, really, because I don't know what level you're talking about. Now, it depends, if you have you say everything and you're talking about specific objects. That's a different point from everything, as in every single atom and quantum level of everything. So So essentially, we talk about it with the scientific understanding of quantum reality. Everything is everything. And everything does relate to everything else. Right. So you would agree with that?
Not in the sense that there's a linear structure? I mean, it just depends on this. And this depends on this. No, no, everything in the universe depends on everything else. So what you said is that it does not have to be a linear structure.
So it can be a circular structure. nobody's
talking about shapes I'm not talking about. I'm talking about limiting one thing relying on one thing else. Yeah, to get that simple fact of the matter, which is everything.
You're saying that, for example, it doesn't have to relate to a linear structure, which is based on some kind of time? Yeah, okay.
Well, I don't know. Because last
time, I just said, Forget about time, linear structure. I agree with you. Oh, you said that everything was? in your own words, you said that everything has limited variables.
Okay, so the universe has limited variables, since I can, therefore the universe depends upon something else.
The thing that logic you're using about things you've learned about within the universe, you are now trying to apply that logic to universes. That's a big step to make. This your because the universe, this universe, right? So this
got me thinking about this. The first one, you're saying by this university depends on something else? What's the first thing so the logic at the scale of inside the universe want to talk about how the universe must also be succumb to that logic? No. You know, did you know what you've described? Something called the fallacy of composition? Yeah. That's not what I'm referring to I'm making. And these are principles which have nothing to do these principles limit themselves to the universe. Yes, they do. Why would they? Well, so you're saying that we've learned something about the universe, therefore, that tells us how universes behave? No other universes. So how are you telling
me that? You know, how do you know that the universe depends on something else? You don't know nothing about anything outside this? You know, I'm not. So maybe there is? Maybe there is nothing outside of this universe, and therefore, the universe doesn't depend on any other. Let me let me let me go back here. So you can go there. But for you to claim that the universe also depends on an external thing is an assertion that you cannot prove. Let me say again, yeah, we agreed. You set yourself in your own words. Yeah. That everything in existence? Yeah, I said everything in the universe depends on everything else.
Before that, as far as I'm concerned, today, we're only talking about the universe doesn't we're not talking about
anything with limited variables depends upon something else.
That's fine. That's fine in sociology and psychology. But you can't use that to talk about University.
I'm saying everything.
We're talking about everything in the universe, and all universes and all potential universe.
All potential universes and all universes. Yeah.
This is confusing.
So let me see why it doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter, bro. The fact of the matter is
the logic side of things in the universe, depending on each other, also applies to the universe having to depend on something that's not necessarily
universal. I've said nothing about the universe. Right? So you are still claiming that there's something
you are claiming that this universe depends on something external to this universe, otherwise, otherwise, you'd agree with me when I say that everything in the universe? Depends on everything in the universe. Okay. Are you saying Okay, I understand your point now. Yes, yes, I get you as far as I understand. Sorry, sorry. So yeah, we have three points. Yeah. You can either say that the universe is dependent upon itself.
What you're saying? Yeah, you said everything in this university, depending on what you start. You started this from a sentence about anything, anything that has unlimited variables. That's not limited by anything that has limited variables depends on something else. Yes. Right. So Fine, in all practical day to day time, that might well be true. Okay. But the fact is, we don't know whether that applies to the universe itself. No, I said the universe does not apply to the universe, right? Show me how I've said everything that my first premise was that anything with limited variables?
Depends upon stuff. So first of all, demonstrate the universe has limited variables, then depend what they show me what it depends on. Because if the universe turns out to be infinite, that could be infinite variable. And we don't know that.
When I say infinite, when I say limited variables, do you agree? Do you agree with me that the universe has limited variables? No, actually, I don't know. Because the universe is infinite. For the sake of argument, even if it didn't, even if it? I'm just saying, okay, even if it did, yeah, even if I go back to that position, the fact that we don't think for the sake of our use, and have to demonstrate that the universe actually is that case, and does depend on your question. Is there? Is there limited? Let's just make it simple. As Oh, you're saying, with limited variables, infrastructure depends on something else.
We're discussing freely. So is it easy to look in the session? I look, I'm just talking about rational concepts. I haven't even mentioned religion. I know there might be some pressure on YouTube. I don't know what you did. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Just get straight to the point. Okay.
Let's just take a simple example. Are they limited or unlimited amount of stars in the universe? I don't know.
Okay, if you say if you know that something called a supernova. supernova is a when the thought is, okay, if a supernova happens, then you have one less star in the universe.
If that happens,
it says unlimited amount of stars in the universe and one star dies, how many stars? Are there limited or unlimited amount?
If the universe has an unlimited amount of stone, or an unlimited amount of salt if you're sick, because there's two options, yeah, we're talking about unlimited or limited. So if I say that you've got an unlimited amount of stars in the universe, and then one star that is for supernova? Do you have unlimited unlimited amount of salt? Did you start with a limited amount? I'm just saying whatever is
an unlimited amount and who is stupid, unlimited demand? And you started with unlimited? Yeah. So infinity minus one equals infinity. contradiction. You can't have infinity minus infinity minus one doesn't exist. It's a construct, which is a contradiction in terms. What are you talking about? infinity by its by its nature, you can't go minus two. So if you could go in that direction for infinite? How does that mean that you couldn't go from one meter closer to infinity? That's what we're saying you can't go into?
Why not? Because if you take away Look, if you have an infinite amount of stars, and you take one solloway, then you have infinity minus one. No, you still have infinity. Oh, that's the public contradiction. Well, this is embarrassing. This is embarrassing. Why is it this is embarrassing, because infinity is not a number infinity is a process that will go on forever to saying infinity is not it's not an app, it's not a number. So what is the concept? Is the concept of
mathematical concepts are fine.
If you have an infinite amount of stars, and you take one away, is that feasible?
Or not feasible, you have if you had an infinite number of things that you did anything to be infinite, because it's an ongoing process. This is actually a contradiction.
Because infinity plus or minus one is an infinity. It's not it doesn't exist. That's a contradiction in terms. You're not understanding when you say infinity is not a set.
When you take some exchanges it, you're talking about a process that will go on forever. So no matter what you take will give to it, it will still go on forever. Okay. That's why it's done. Because the idea of infinity look, you have to understand, it's not my fault. You don't know basic mathematics. There's no definition of infinity, by the way, how I'm using this basic is correct.
Yeah, so even when I saw
we just said, I don't know basic math. This concept is, you know, I'm saying you're misunderstanding. Okay, fine, even if
you're trying to use it like it's a certain number. And therefore, take it for let me say that if you treat infinity like a number, then the idea of taking something away or move bring something to it will change it because it's an if it was a number, but it's not a number. It's something that
is it possible for this universe? Well, if I don't know, then it might be possible. And the reason why I say I don't know, I don't know if it's possible or not.
Every single variable that there isn't University
Well, I don't know these things. And, you know, I'm telling you, there's something you never know.
So you're not convinced? I'm not convinced that he has a limited number of errors. So you're saying I might have an unlimited amount of birth? No, I'm saying that if the universe turns out to be infinite, then the number of variables could also be infinite. So you're saying the universe itself. But that's not necessarily the case. Though, you know why that's not true.
Because if the universe in time is incident, because that's what we're talking about. Behind this, what but one factor and even even in science is time space, it doesn't mean
the things I was asked to also be.
Anyways, what I'm saying is, there's just
a limited amount of variables depends on
variables, therefore, the universe depends upon something else. Now, you said before that the universe everything the universe doesn't none of that makes sense.
So you said that everything in the universe depends upon everything.
else in the universe? Yeah, that's it. That's a circular argument.
You're basically saying that everything is dependent upon everything else. Yeah. Which is actually the definition of secondary.
Be kind of not be that the secular situation is the truth cannot be that the secular situation is the truth cannot be that the secular situation is the truth.
The second situation is,
so what are you saying is that everything in this universe cannot be explained in terms of everything.
I use the word dependent contingent.
At the end of the day, I'm using you're saying, I accept, we remember we started, we accept the universe exists. Now, to explain why the universe is the way it is. You need to create a magical dimension to fit nobody. I don't need to do that not make the universal strawman out, I will look at the universe itself and seek to explain it within terms of the universe itself. If you think that's secular, that's fine, bro. No, hold on. Are you saying that the universe itself is dependent upon the universe itself?
existence of the universe depends on the universe exists? I'm not saying that. I was saying that when you said
that was the existence of the universe, why is it dependent on?
Is it you can either have one or two things? Is it dependent upon you got three options.
The existence of the universe is dependent upon its own existence. One, which is which is circular and contradictory. The existence of the universe existence is dependent or contingent on something else, which is dependent on the existence of the universe is dependent upon that which is independent. Which is, we don't know, we don't know. Because, you know, we do know
how logic works, you try and break down. And I told you that the logic you're using applies to things within the universe, you cannot take that logic, which works within the universe, then you take it outside and say, all
right, because we've never been out there there might not be anything out there. You're you're assuming
anything outside of the physical universe, if the universe expanding there is
that that explains the cause of
the universe expanding, there is no one
to tell me what to buy. Tell me what that is.
a universal so this is what I'm saying to you is that you don't know nothing about whatever, when our universe ends, and then there must be something outside of it. You don't know nothing about the universe expanding there must be expanding into something really.
If not, then what is expanding into my head?
That would not tell you that there must be something there for you to expand into. There must be empty space there for space. It must be something must be something so so Okay, so what I'm saying she wrote, it's as simple as that. Look, I'm gonna be straightforward. I know this isn't too long. You look simple. What are the conceptions? What are the attributes of God according to the sun? I'm sure you remember this.
Do not limit yourself to this Islamic Islamic concept.
The fact of the matter is you start your deductive logic from what you what you should be as facts, but these are not facts. Okay. So these, these tactics detect deductive logic are my promises, or my promises false? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that they are not established as facts. So
they may or may not be true. You don't know that and I don't know that. Okay, so you're saying that you, you believe that my premises are I believe that they're not convincing to be accepted as a true premise of just a weak assumption. Okay, hold on. Here, I set you look with the universe. Yeah. Do you accept that there are free options, however, that the universe is dependent upon itself, for the universe is dependent for something else, which is dependent for that the universe is independent.
Okay, universe. All right. There is a possibility.
I'm talking about dependencies.
then it didn't depend on anything else.
No size or module that's been presented by who's gotten me my famous famous scientist said, Yeah, no, no. It's a module that they put forward as a possibility and potential possibility. Now, you don't know. You don't know more about the origin of the universe than those guys. You are just using the fact that you want Islam to be true, though, and you find everywhere. Oh, it's nonsense. It's just silly. So listen to what it seems like you're getting emotional. And I'm trying to keep this is a rational discourse. Just because I'm a Muslim used to be part of my Facebook, you've left the faith. I'm not angry with you for it. Yeah. I would
agree with you. Okay. So terrible arguments.
Just as I'm sure you'd be nice to someone who's an atheist, or someone who's anonymous. To me, okay. Just put them in their place. Same. No problem. But here, I'm just saying, instead of using arrogating terms, and using the simple fact,
you started off, we were all nice and well, but the fact of the matter is yagnam is rubbish. Okay, it's not good argument answer. Just tell me your subjective, right. Just tell me what you think is true, and why you think it's
going nowhere. Thank you for showing your frustration. I appreciate where you're coming from not frustrated. I'm just upset. You see, when you bring these weak arguments, there are better arguments out there. So if something is weak doesn't make you weak, right. So what's the thing about this argument again, while I'm saying I'm sorry, and I hope that would be just keep it civil, where we run out. So
let's not for the sake of the camera, just to make this into some kind of
some kind of rules.
I'm just trying to show you my worldview. Yeah. I'm sorry, if it's making you frustrated. Now, the only thing that I get frustrated about is the fact that you are starting your deductive logic for things that are way less than established facts. Okay, thank you.
Thank you very much. What do you consider establish facts?
Well, to some extent, it would never be anything that's absolutely effective. Okay. But if you're gonna start even what you just said, if you're gonna start deductive logic, it has to be on something that is at least accepted to be true or self evidently true in the sense that if my my version of deductive logic is that all human beings will die, do you disagree with that?
I am a human being. Do you agree with that? Okay, right. So I will die. This is premise premise conclusion. That's how deductive logic works. Okay, now what you guys do is rate that system and put in silly claims about the universe.
This, this is not where deductive logic begins from us.
And let's just speak from the icon.
You're trying to make a show of the fact that I might not come but this is how I behave. Okay. Even amongst my friends, it's okay. To be different. Yeah. When we were talking in the restaurant.
In a restaurant, we had time to sit in the car and chat and Joe, want to go back to
me for two minutes. And
he told me for one minute.
When you're in the car, I attempt to kill you hit you.
When we were in the cold, I was driving into the restaurant. Did I did I take a wrong turn?
With the brothers? I was waiting for that. No.
I have no problem with it.
I know you've you've you've suffered, or listen, I'm not here to attack you.
I'm just changing ideas. Maybe.
Maybe I'm wrong. Show me how
that. Yeah. If I'm wrong,
instead of just asserting that, because it's a terrible argument. You're raping the system and all this. Like you're raping, raping the detectives.
But instead of doing that, because I promise you anyone can do that.
A scientist can say things mathematicians Can you know like, you know, when you mess, GCSE maths. And your teacher was putting math things on the wall. You can say look, it's a terrible argument. It's a terrible mess. You're ripping the system. Exactly.
Same thing to the teacher. I've explained one thing, just because you said that it doesn't make it true. Okay, now I have explained it. Okay.
So hyperbole and exaggeration, I don't think is, let's just keep it simple. Now I'm just explaining. The fact is you're using a deductive logic with premises that are less than accepted once you're accepted yourself. So somehow, I'm not making any deductive logic Am I did you see me? So
when I did, I made sure that your dream was something you need to do the same okay? If I take your premise and toss me
make your first premise and asked me if I agree that
I will do that. I just want to ask you. What is that what you will agree with? Bro? How can I know before you tell me?
What's your standard of truth? My standard of truth is that there might not be any such thing as absolute truth. So what you just said that could be false. It could be false. Okay, thank you very much.
I'm gonna go play.
catch up later McAfee with the cameras in your private rabbit