Channel: Mohammad Elshinawy
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Episode Transcript ©
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Welcome to the jihad decoded or demystified.
Talk. And why are we discussing this subject? Well, because it's controversial, because there's so much misinformation out there about it. And we want as many of us as possible to become enabled to say, Enough hearing about us hear this from us, right? We want to be able to articulate in a compelling and coherent and reasonable fashion,
this subject, in its full truth.
And also even before, you know, being conversant on the subject for others, for our own sake, we do believe that jihad is an undeniable part of Islam. And if Islam is from Almighty God, then it must be wise and it must be beautiful. It's not just that there's nothing in Islam to be ashamed of, but that everything in Islam can be appreciated. Right.
And so, lots of misinformation about out there, lots of ignorance, lots of prejudice as well. And usually, the discussion on Jihad goes wrong by people trying to oversimplify it. And those are usually two extreme narratives. One narrative is the folks that are often Muslim that are incapable perhaps don't understand even the doctrine of jihad and Islam and so they just tried to explain away jihad as jihad is just the whatever struggle whatever you struggle with, you know, hashtag The struggle is real or something that's jihad. You know, like if your stomach is compact that I actually heard someone say this, your stomach is compact it and you can't have a bowel movement.
That's jihad, man. That's crazy. You know, if you're trying to he literally said if you're trying, you know, to to approach a girl and like, she doesn't want to give you her phone number, that's jihad, right? It's just that letdown. It's embarrassing, and you just gotta like, you know, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and try again as you had and aside from the fact that this is wrong, to try to explain away all the I ads and a hadith about jihad, all the verses and prophetic traditions in this way looks very suspicious. You look like you have something to hide right? When you try to explain it in this nonsensical way.
The other extreme right by those who fear monger those who tried to spread you know hate and you know, baseless, irrational fears about Islam, the Daniel Pipes is of the world. He famously said that his definition was jihad is that Jihad these the four most
source, it's an ideology that represents the foremost source of terrorism in the world, which is wrong by every measure, statistically speaking, ask the FBI, not true, not even close. And he says it is a doctrine in Islam, that every Muslim was believing that every Muslim must be committed to bent on global domination, right? War on the world.
And so those are the two extremes. So what is the reality of jihad? Well, jihad, first of all, linguistically, means to exert effort. That's all it means, right? To endure some sort of hardship, to exert some sort of effort comes from the same root as the word joy do which is effort. Islamically speaking, jihad is any effort that you exert, seeking by it, what pleases Allah or seeking by it to avoid or resist what is displeasing to Allah subhanho wa taala. It's that simple. And that is why it applies to so many aspects of our way of life. So for example, there is jihad on neffs. There is the jihad against one's own lower appetites, right there vanities, their lust, their
lower desires, that you had the self restraint, basically, right, you're exerting an effort against your own greed, your own pride, your own laziness, your own cowardice, your own ignorance, your own stinginess, your own anger, all of these vices, your own insincerity, right, exerting the effort to not show off. That's part of the jihad, because the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he said in the authentic hadith for fee Hema for jarhead.
My two parents don't want me to do this, but I do want to, right, so he said, Go let your Jihad be with them be in putting up with the service of your parents. He said, direct your jihad. That doesn't mean wage war on your parents, right? That means wage war on yourself, too, you know, so
Follow that heavy pill and serve your parents and be dutiful, unkind to them. Likewise he said sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, while muda he do manager had enough cell, the Mujahid the combatant, if you will, the doer of jihad, the Mujahid is the one that performs jihad against his own self against his own inner self. And that's why we call the jihad of self restraint, if you will, the fight within chaining up you know the animal within from running loose, that sort of thing. And it'll play and Rahim Allah, Allah, He says, and this is elgible jihad, this is the most obligatory form of jihad, meaning this is the one that applies to everyone, because no one is exempt from this jihad,
right? We all have to work to self improve.
The second type of jihad that is mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah is the jihad of Dawa. Right. And so that is another form of peaceful in terms of interpersonal peace, right, peaceful resistance, but the resistance of what? of misinformation. So this talk would actually be part of the jihad of the hour, right. I'm pushing back against misconceptions, misnomers false information, smear campaign, that is part of the jihad. In fact, that was the first usage of the word jihad in the Quran. When Allah subhanho wa Taala said
Furla toto el Cathrine don't give in right to the bullying of the disbelievers where Jaya Haider, whom be he and perform jihad against them with it with it's here as the Quran keeps saying the Quran, resist don't let them silence you keep,
keep preaching the Quran, and perform jihad against them. Right these antagonists be here with it, it is the Quran, Jihad and Kabira a great jihad. So people don't want the truth to get out. And you insist to sacrifice that they hear about it. You invest your money in it, you invest your effort in it, you you conquer your fears, because of it. This is of the jihad, the intellectual jihad, if you will, the jihad of preaching the jihad of teaching, that jihad of extending guidance to God others, even when there's a cost, even when there's a cost. So that verse use the word jihad to speak about pushing back with the Quran, making sure the Quran reaches people's ears at a time keep in mind at a
time when combat to jihad was not yet allowed. This was an earlier version, an earlier usage of the word jihad.
And so, let us now move to what we will spend most of our time on because this is the only real controversial one, which is the jihad maraka or the battlefield Jihad right or the martial combat jihad. And
this, as we said, was not permitted initially.
And then the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was allowed to defend himself, right? Because Allah azza wa jal said 15 years into his ministry with the nanny Lavina yukata Lu Luna be Anna Hamid lolium, who are in Allah, Allah and also to him la Kadir permission has finally been granted to those who are being fought,
being fought, because they have been wrong, they've been subjugated, they've been persecuted, and Allah is certainly capable of granting them victory of supporting them. In other words, God could have gotten rid of your enemies, but now your test is evolving into stand your ground. That only happened that was only permitted when the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam moved into Medina migrated away from the place he was expelled. Mecca. 13 years in Mecca moved to Medina two years later, this verse comes down in his capacity as a critical mass a head of state, a full community that is still under the rest.
Was it only was it only permitted
in the form of self defense? Yes and no, because he defended himself at that battle, two years into Medina was called better. And then the next year, they came back with a triple size army and he defended himself again. Right. And then two years later, they mobilized all of the pagans of the region, and they Confederate it against him, and with three times the size of that army went from 1000, to 3000, to 10,000, marching in the direction of Medina. And so after that third one, the Battle of the Trench, the Battle of Allah Zab, the Confederates, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, they will no longer march to us. Now we will march to them. So that is still self
defense, but it is called pre emptive. Attacking. I'm just gonna sit here in the corner until one punch gets through until we finally get to eradicate it right. And by the way, none of this should be controversial because self defense
Some of the greatest oppressors, we'll put that aside for a second, but of the world today, we always hear from the powers that be in the international community, so and so has a right to defend itself. This country has a right to defend itself. Every country has an army. So this part shouldn't be contentious, right? Jihad in the form of a nation defending itself, its interests, its lives, its liberties, its pursuit of happiness, what it deems to be happiness, right. That's one preemptive striking also is something that shouldn't be controversial, either. A state saying I'm not going to sit here get attacked year after year, I'm going to disarm those that have already and repeatedly
threatened to me showed me hostility, been aggressors towards me. I mean,
why was Iraq invaded by the United States, because of supposedly weapons of mass destruction, right? We're not going to wait till they use them against us right or wrong.
How that turned out, this is another story for another time, right? But the concept, in principle, shouldn't be controversial.
So self defense, in the obvious sense, self defense, even in the pre emptive form. And then was it only self defense? No, in the final years of the Prophet sallallahu, alayhi wa sallam his life.
It was also defense of others. It's not a self defense only. It's kind of selfish. Right? If you have the ability to help someone else, right? We're bringing you democracy, right? You have the ability to help someone else.
And you don't then this is self centered. Right? And so later on in his mission and his salatu salam, Allah azza wa jal said to him and to the believers, why am I like him led to party Luna visa vie de la, why is it that you don't fight in the path of Allah
while Mr. boffin and in and for the sake of those that are being oppressed of men, women and children, that say, The verse continues that say, Oh, our Lord, save us from this tyrannical town? And grant us a victor from you, Allah saying, why are you not there as my response to these oppressed people's prayers? Right, and so self defense, and then finally, defense of those that were under oppression, this was this is the summary, essentially, the summary of the battlefield Jihad that was sanctioned for the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam upon him,
establishing that state in Medina.
this is Islam, if you will, the just war theory, right? Justified warfare
is the only
type of warfare that would qualify under the virtuous term jihad. It's one of the many forms of jihad, jihad against oneself, jihad of teaching and educating and spreading the message, also exerting an effort in terms of resisting oppression, resisting oppression, in particular, those that have shown hostility openly. Of course, you know, all three of these, as we said, are not really controversial. Actually, everybody talks about this justified warfare, justified warfare, whether they're all truly justified. The history books tell that story, right.
Like, we invaded Iraq, right, because of the premise of weapons of mass destruction, what has happened, right? Iraq, and then after that, you know, Afghanistan and Pakistan as well. 11 million innocent civilians, right, have been killed since 911. In that process, right. And then, you know, the Tony Blair fiasco of those videos being fabricated to begin with, right, that they were used as part of the justification. History also told the story that the Muslims justifications were jihad, especially in the early period, because Muslims are human. And as you move away from the earlier prophetic era, there are certainly greater divergence is greater swerving from the prophetic model.
But in especially in the first few centuries, their justification was clear, and it was observed with such piety. Right, like,
I'll give you one example like on the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam sword. It was literally inscribed on the hilt of the sword and its Hadith was the sound but shekel Alberni, Rahim Allah, it was inscribed on his sword. Forgive those who wronged you, and be kind to those who are cruel to you, and uphold the ties of those who sever ties with you, and speak the truth even against yourself. So it was virtue base, and the values were front and center. And therefore you understand now that the teachings of Battlefield Jihad military Jihad and Islam, all of the ayat and a hadith you will hear that seem to encourage jihad or insane
devise martyrdom or otherwise, this is just about it being a reality of the human experience of the human condition, that sometimes some people will press the issue and force it to be this way. We are not seeking it. But Allah is incentivizing for us not to shy away from it, some things are worth fighting for. That's all it was about. Some things are worth fighting for, don't shy away from it, or else the world will be in a worse place, or be in a worse condition, if you do.
I'll read to you actually.
The references I can I can give you at a later time. But in one of the history books, Western history books, it is mentioned that 500 years after the Muslims conquered a sham Hashem was the Levant area, greater Syria. He says, Michael, the elder who was like the patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church in the 12th century, Michael, the elder, he said, He's chronicler, and a chronicle chronicling for us, right, documenting the historical record. He said, The Lord of vengeance. He's trying to say God is just the lord of vengeance after witnessing the evils of the Roman Empire sent to us from the regions of the South, the children of Ishmael, to deliver us from the Romans. So he's
a Christian. He's the patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Christian church. He's saying the sons of Ishmael he means the Arabs, which he means the Muslims, God sent us the Muslim army to finally get the Romans, fellow Christians by the way to get them off our back because of the oppression and religious persecution we face. And another historian he says about
the Jews, he says, and the minor losses incurred by the Jews in the Arabian Peninsula and a jazz in particular, are insignificant in comparison with the benefits that the Jews gained with the emergence of Islam. Muslim conquerors saved 1000s of Jews, who were spread throughout, they were scattered, and, and fearful and in limbo were spread throughout the Roman Empire, and they faced all kinds of persecution. And you know, we have that very well known quote from Musa Mamoon, that historic Jewish thinker and philosopher, he says, I've lived under the Christians and I've lived under the Muslims and I would so much rather live under Muslim rule. Because of them, seeing that it
wasn't just some, you know, human rights language, right? We're coming here to liberate you guys and so on and so forth. And then you come in and it's all over, like taxes are at taxes are 80% of your income, and your force fed another religion, you know, even the land of my parents and grandparents, Egypt, they mentioned that it is remarkable the Muslims entered Egypt very early on some of the companions of the Prophet SAW Selim, the first generation entered Egypt, right, they liberated Egypt from the regime that was there, they remove that regime, yet, the Egyptians remained upon their Coptic Christian religion for three centuries after that, which was living historical proof that the
religion wasn't imposed on them.
You know, I will share with you probably the three most
misused verses to try to argue against the fact that
Islam teaches only a just war last resort, going to war for the greater good theory. The first of them, what's the first of them you tell me? What's the most famous verse
Islamophobes like hurling to say Islam is violent.
This talk about Jihad was sponsored by Starbucks, by the way.
What's the most famous verse?
Now? Why the opposite guys? The guys who don't like us? What do they say? Your Quran says kill them where you find them. Right? How many have heard that before? Okay, good. So let's talk about that. We will not be able to go through all the data in a hadith but I just want to sample for you how it's all the same decontextualized Right.
to do how to move them, kill them where you find them.
Seems like there's no place to run.
Always check context first. The verse is right before it's a what? We'll call it Lo Fi sebelah he Lavina yatse Luna come and fight in the path of God, those who are fighting you. So we're already talking about people at war with you. God is saying fight to them. Kill them, where you find them. Meaning don't hesitate because you know, even pre Islamically
They had this sanctification of Mecca and the holy sites right so what if we meet them in Mecca? What if we meet them in a place or in a time where we're not allowed to fight sacred mud sacred lands? Right? Allah saying there's no blame on you to fight them wherever you see them. I won't hold it against you. And that's why the verse continues to say we're actually Zhu Min HIFU. Raju come and expel them from where they expelled you. They were expelled from where? from Mecca, right? There is no blame on you and doing this. And the verse after it says what?
For any interhealth Allah or when a lot of aalameen and if they desist if they give up? The norm by the way back then was what? Finish them off. The Army submits, you make an example out of them for everybody else, right.
If they desist, then there should be no transgression except upon the wrongdoers. In other words, the one who submits is not a wrongdoer, you spare them you don't
take advantage of them. And then you know, you have like other ayat in the Quran that clearly make distinctions between a combatant and a noncombatant. Like
Al moonta Hana Allah azza wa jal says, lie and how come Allah Allah does not forbid you on a levena LMU call to confit Dean with regard to those who are not fighting you because of your religion. What you read, you come in the article and they're not expelling you exile and you from your homes and terbaru who Motoko sotto la him for you to be kind with them and to be just with them. In Allah your head would mock Sultan, Allah loves those who are just so we're talking about peaceful non Muslims. The verse is very clear, not just that you can have peaceful coexistence with them. But the verse is saying Allah loves those who are kind of just meaning seek nearness to God by being kind with them
and being just with them. You know, the word entered our room to be kind with them is the same word that we hear in the Quran and or sunnah about bedroom validation, right being kind to your parents same term.
area that they love decontextualized thing and using out of place is katello Lavina Luna communal kuffaar Allah says fight those adjacent to you next door from the disbelievers
so they said this is basically Quranic proof that the international foreign policy of the Muslim state is perpetual warfare whoever is next to you or fighting him or was next to your fight and we can't have non Muslim neighbors it doesn't work. Of course what do you do with all the final labia Hadith about neighbors that's number one. Number two, the Quran also says for in Jana holy sell me fudge Nicola taka Allah. If you find them inclined to peace, then you too inclined to peace. And you just look at the prophets life and I saw those Salah how many truces did he take part in how many peace treaties that he gets involved in? Did he not say they will never invite me to a pact that
would minimize bloodshed and glorified sanctities of God, except that I'll oblige. I'll accept it. He said that, I suppose Tulum and he lived that I saw those setup. So what does it mean and fight those adjacent to you of the kuffaar. This was specifically about the tyrannical regimes next door to what was now is Muslim Arabia.
They had already shown aggression to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, you know, when he sent them the message of Islam, Roman Persia, one guy tore it up and was provoked by it and he made his aggressions very clear. The other guy sent someone to go arrest the Prophet SAW Selim, can you imagine? Like I'm sending you a message telling you, you know, if you know what's good for you, you will consider the religion of Islam. You send your guys to go arrest the president of the State next door, right? And so the Prophet alayhi salatu salam was sold by Allah fight to them they will never they will never understand anything but you putting your foot down for us only respect for us with
and have the proofs for this, by the way that it's not a perpetual warfare like you know, international policy foreign policy of of Islam and the Muslims is the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said very clearly, and this is an important Hadith to remember. And sunnah and necessity, either Ebisu Cana, he said,
well there whether I will have a shatter Marwadi or okume What truco toRCA matter or qoocam Leave the Abyssinians alone so long as they leave you alone.
and leave the Turks alone so long as they leave you alone.
If it's perpetual, then why are we making exceptions? What is the difference between Abyssinia and the Turks and between Rome and Persia that the I was addressing?
The difference is that Rome and Persia were tyrannical regimes. Both those factors are important wasn't just tyranny. It was inescapable tyranny. You know, when it's a regime, it's an establishment that is tyrannical that you can't run from. It is so suffocating. It is so horrific. That is why that remedy, if you will, was given to the Muslim state to protect its own people from them. But compare that with Abyssinia was Abyssinia, tyrannical? No, it wasn't. That's why the Muslims who were being subjugated in the earlier years sought asylum with the Christian king because he was just not tyrannical in Abyssinia. What about the Turks? Were the Turks.
They said because the scholars had because the Turks weren't regimes. You see the Turks were a bunch of tribes. You guys know this right? The Turks originally, were from the steps of the Himalayas, as they say, right. They were from that's why East Turkmenistan, they called Turkmenistan, eastern China, those they were nomadic tribes. So they weren't the regime, like even if they were oppressive, you just pick up your tent and say, I'm not hanging out with you guys anymore. You guys go this way. I go that way. Right. And so these ayat and the prophets life and these are Hadith make it all clear that what's happening here is that there was implied context fight those adjacent to
you, meaning the Roman and Persian empires that were
unleashing monstrosity is on the world last one last one I'll use is that they often say that your Prophet said sallallahu alayhi wa sallam omitted to no party Lanessa had the shadow Allah ilaha illallah I was commanded to fight the people until they say La ilaha illallah is se crystal clear. They'll tell you that he doesn't Bukhari and Muslim. They'll become Hadith experts for a moment and it isn't Bukhari and Muslim but it is highly authentic. I was commanded to fight the people until they say La Ilaha illa Allah
so how do we fix this is clearly forced conversions right?
How do we fix it? Anybody?
Well, in one narration also for an essay the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said omitted to anakata that we should be keen. I was commanded to fight the machine again the pagans All right. The word people here Yes, it is a general term but many times you say you know a general term and something specific is intended by it right. So he clarified and other instances or other narrations do clarify that it was the machete keen of the Arabian Peninsula.
Okay, that's number one.
How do we know this also, not just because of a variant wording but because of the fact that he made truces with many people. He didn't just say, you know, become Muslim or or else right.
Okay, then why why even the people of Arabia because the people of Arabia at the end of the day, were toxic feudal tribes that would annihilate each other. There is precedent to this, they would finish each other off down to the last man, just because of vendettas. So they were feudal tribes that only understood strength.
And so after they've done so much, right that remember the timeline, the Prophet SAW, Selim lived as a pacifist among them for 13 years. Then he was expelled. And two years later, he was allowed to defend himself, right.
And then three years later, the defense took a little bit of an offensive look framing to preempt them, right. When he preempted them when he started pre empting them in the fifth year in the 60s it Okay, okay, okay, let's let's do treaty, because they saw strength from him now. Right. Let's do a treaty as soon as they did the treaty, and he said, Fine, you invite me to any good terms to minimize I'm for it. Soon as they did the treaty. They betrayed the treaty. So he marched into Mecca, right. These are people did not understand treaty, and did not understand whatever they could play with. And so Allah who wanted a cradle for Islam subhanho wa taala. You guys remember what
happened to Jesus peace be upon him.
When When he left, when he Allah lifted him from this world, what happened to his followers? What happened to the Sahaba of a Sally serum?
They were fed to the lions. They died Shahadat, right they were all martyred. They were annihilated right or wrong, except a few of them that may have escaped, escaped with his original message, right. So remember that
And it also can't could not have meant, you know, forced conversions because forced conversions are antithetical to Islam. Right? It's the exact opposite of Islam, right or wrong? Like what do you call a Muslim who says I'm a Muslim, but in his heart, he's not a Muslim,
scholar hypocrite, that, that is not valid. And so what this hadith was really referring to is, after you in particular, oh pagans of Arabia, have done over and over and over again, you have two choices now, you live, you live, or you externally submit, right? To the Islamic influence. So the Islamic governance, right, he was imposing the peace that he brought to the world. And Allah wanted for there to be a safe haven called Arabia for Islam. Right.
So it would not be overrun.
Okay, so we did types of jihad, we did battlefield Jihad being a just war theory. We said, History ultimately testifies that they were justified, especially in the early period, unlike so many others who make the claim of just war theory, and don't live up to it. The only thing left now is when you get involved in war,
what are the rules that you abide by? Right? So there's the reasoning or the justification, then there's the rules of engagement or the ethics of war.
That one isn't even simpler conversation because Islam beats you know, the Geneva Conventions and the world treaties and the summits and the PO pow rules and how you treat a prisoner of war. And all of this, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam had pioneered so many guidelines for how war would take place. Right? He did not deal with people the way he dealt with him or accept the cultural norms of unethical and unprincipled practices in warfare warfare when it happened as a last resort, don't back down, but still in a principled way. So he forbid them sallallahu alayhi wa sallam from killing women in the battlefield, killing children from the battlefield, killing the elderly in the
and killing even even
any attachment to the army that wasn't a combatant? So like, even the guy who's helping the army, like the medic, he's helping the army, the guy who's bringing them the Gatorade, like he's given them energy to fight us. No, no, none of these people get touched, except for the combatant himself.
And he forbid the unnecessary killing of any animal, rally his salatu salam. In fact, he cursed he invoked Allah's curse upon anyone who kills an animal even outside of war, without justification, meaning you're not going to eat it. Like you kill an animal for poaching for fun as target practice and otherwise, he invoked Allah's curse against these people.
And even did this with birds, right, you know, in the Olympics in the Olympics, it was just about 100 years ago that they sort of pivoted over to those clay discs that they shoot they were shooting live birds live targets before that the Prophet SAW Selim forbade this 1300 years ago.
In fact, even trees, like you know, there's an ayah in the Quran or in Allah azza wa jal says in Surah Al hasher ma Papa to mean Lena tiene el Tarak to mu her image and Allah also you have a beard Nila that there is no Lena no like small tree that you cut down or leave standing or left standing except that it was by God's permission in other words don't worry those trees you cut down God knows you needed them which means what
if you didn't need them, it would not have been allowed for you that concept of spilling napalm on on you know on populations of you know poisoning the water supply the rivers and the lakes and the wells and otherwise right that's why even even the Tamia Rahim Allah, He said even though the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam used catapult in some
circumstances, indiscriminate killing of catapults is not allowed unconditionally in Islam.
And that's a discussion for another time. So, like you see all of this. Do we have time to compare and contrast? Like, if the person is speaking to you, as a Christian, you tell them just open your Bible, right? Like I will give you two quick references, but it's really it's not just two passages, like in Deuteronomy 13. It mentions that they massacre the people and when you enter a town massacre their livestock as well. They're all cursed. Right? If God has allowed you to fight them, then you finish everything living off. And Joshua is mentioned that even the women and the children are to be killed except for the virgin girls, except for the girls that have never before been married. You
And so the Prophet alayhi salatu salam has you know historically also this he has lived up to this it was not just talk right it was not just PR management, public relations, management and optics and otherwise He abolished all of these, you know, age old practices of vendettas and vengeance and otherwise, and he always took the higher road, and I would invite you all to read the book of
Prophet of mercy. That was published by cube 70 moments where the prophet Alayhi Salatu was Salam despite being in power and so many of those moments took the higher road he rose above enmity and insult when he could have avenged himself when he could have retaliated when he could have demanded at least just this, he didn't sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, after saying all of this, it becomes like
superfluous extra unnecessary for you to start talking about someone who was supposedly Muslim that you know lives by the everything goes, mindset or believes that treachery or that you know, violating civilian life is permissible in Islam. These are all if Muslims
you know, practice this, these are all miss reads of our sacred texts of our tradition that were sparked
by other acts of terrorism, right state sponsored terrorism many times organized terrorism many times, I always had an open house and I'll close with this story in eastern in ACMA a few years back.
And they came around the like, ask a shake table and sort of the conversation went Did you had and then everyone started stopping and you know, the crowds snowballed, and got bigger and bigger and bigger. And these two elderly women, they're saying Yeah, but what about this ISIS stuff? Like why you can't you guys just like tell them to stop?
I said to her, ma'am, like, I kind of lost the phone number I just I would have I just I really can't. And she I don't think she liked the joke.
But then I said to remembered really, let's be reasonable here. Do you actually think that Muslims who read the Quran day and night and we all memorize a bit, we actually believe this stuff? Like Muslims are violent, inherently violent, like, because if all Muslims are terrorists, or even most Muslims are terrorists, Muslims are a quarter of the population. That's only a one to four ratio, you guys would be done. If we were really terrorists, it would only be four of you, for each of us. Do you understand the implications of what you're saying? She's saying then why do they do this? And I said, Sir, I'll draw for you a story.
It was there's a prison in Iraq called Apple grape. Right? For those of you who remember, Apple rave was a prison where unthinkable, humiliation, right. And
torture had happened to many of our brothers and sisters in Iraq upon the invasion of Iraq, and the pictures came out. And I told you need to understand when someone sees
that we have children here, what they saw happen to them, and their brothers and their moms and their sisters and their daughters in front of them
over and over and over and over and over again.
Are you told that I'm not excusing them for the radicalization that may have happened for some of these people, or someone watching that on screen across the globe? Right. But for people that went through this, or their CO religionists, their fellow Muslims went through this. Are you surprised? I'm not saying it's right? Are you surprised that some of them said To hell with the world?
Are you surprised that one of them is just going to conveniently pick a verse from the book out of context, pluck it to satisfy his rage?
And then a an honest, Christian gentleman in the crowd, he said to me, I would not even reach for the book. I wouldn't even need to justify it. I wouldn't look for a verse in my Bible or my Quran. I get it. Right. And so that's really where so much of this emerges from. It is not that the Quran promotes political violence, political violence, drove some people write to misread the Quran or misread the Sunnah in that way.
And Allah subhana wa danos best amaze find his peace and blessings be upon His messenger Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam