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Heart Soul – Episode 25

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Lauren Booth

Channel: Lauren Booth

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Episode Transcript

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Welcome to heart and soul with me, Lauren booth your place to reflect. Joining me today is hamzat sources. Hamza is an international public speaker on Islam. He's an instructor for the Islamic education and research Academy in the UK. His first book on Islam and atheism is due to be published later this year. Salaam Hamza welcome.

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Well, Alex,

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we want to talk today about this massive

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context of existence being both that have freewill and yet contained by the divine Well, yes, the Quranic narrative on human beings is that we have volition, we have free will.

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And there are some things we can control. And something that cannot control. For example, I can decide to sit on the bench, we can, the bus

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that's within my control, I could stand up knee but remain there waiting for the bus. But I can't control meteorite landing on my head. So there are some trolls, and some things I can't control when it comes to that which we can't control. Who is controlling it? And, and can it be impacted by any behaviors.

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Interesting, because in the Islamic tradition, everything is controlled by a lot, even the things that we claim to control, which is quite interesting, because he believed was a harlot, which basically means he's the Creator, and he treats all actions. And the way the amount of scholars have tried to reconcile between the fact that God creates all actions and we have freewill is that God creates all our actions from the point of view that he has created, the physical causes that

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the physical causes that we use to act. So God is the creator of the action, but we are the act.

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And we have a freewill to basically use those physical causes, or

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any type of causes in order to basically put an action together. But we are not the underlying creator of that action. There's the reconciliation view. But I would even say this whole concept of free will and divine predestination and Divine Decree is actually not really meant to be a philosophical exercise. Because the plan is very deep spiritual texts, and must be understood that way. And we must remove the kind of what I will call medieval philosophical lenses when we're looking at the Quran. Because this is there's a lot of kind of Hellenic philosophical baggage that we're using, when we're looking at the book of Allah. Now, I would even be very much how to be brave

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and say, we will never solve the philosophical problem problem of predestination. And it's not for us to solve, because this is in the realm of the Divine reality, he has all knowledge and all wisdom, and we don't even try to fathom what's going on. on that level. If I can add time to think like an elephant, you know, the two different paradigms. So when you really focus on the Quran, in the prophetic traditions of the Prophet Mohammed upon the peace, the concept of others, yes, is a critical concept, we have to believe in it, the Muslims is one of the six pillars of the mind, the six pillars of faith, but at the same time, instead, empower us. And let me give you some examples.

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Know the Quran and the Prophet always mentioned that if the whole world were to come against you to harm you, they will never harm me, unless it's in line with the will of Allah. And if the whole world will come to benefit you, it will never benefit you. And it's in line with the will of Allah. This is very profound implication to the way we live our lives. Because it shows to us everything is because of Allah's will. Now, this doesn't give you a defeatist mentality. In actual fact, it should give you wings to fly. Why am I saying this? Because we really believe that

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there is no true power of the power law, and things happen because of a low

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power and era and his will. The question is for believers, do you know?

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We don't we don't know what's happening in five minutes. We don't know how Allah is going to use these physical causes in the universe to manifest His will. That lack of knowledge is actually so empowering because it shows you

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Now that you now have an infinite realm of possibility to achieve what you can until Allah wills as manifested itself. Now, this is very powerful. Because if you don't believe in this, we usually have this kind of defeatist mentality, oh, you know, I can't do I don't have enough time, or I'm not good enough, or that too many obstacles in my path. Well, I blame the media, or I blame, you know, people who don't like, Well, I think, politicians, this is a very disempowering position. But as a Muslim, we should never give blame to these things. These are things that allows users to bring about his work. So since you don't know all of them, then that creates an infinite realm of possibility to

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achieve what you can into a Muslim manifested itself. And if you tried your best, and, and it seems to be negative, and it seems to be evil, and it seems to be very bad for your there's some kind of suffering involved. For the Muslim, they see the goodness behind it, because also it is a very positive theology, which means every evil, even noxious bodies, even killing and suffering, yes, has been willed by Allah. But ultimately, it's based on an eternal wisdom and goodness. And this is everything. This basically reconciles all types of evil, because we believe that is ultimately for a greater divine cosmic goodness, and in line with the cosmic divine wisdom. So everything is good.

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And it's misaligned with the famous prophetic tradition of the Prophet Muhammad upon GPS. And he said, amazing is the situation of the Beaver, when something good happens to him, he's thankful and that's good for him. So this was summarized really well, by the prophet peace be upon him when a man came to him one day, and he had a camel outside the meeting place. And he was confused. And he went in to speak to the Prophet upon Mbps. And he said, I've got a camel outside, shall I just expect a lot to take care of it? Or shall I tie it up and the prophet of peace said, famously, tie up your camel, and then trust in Allah, meaning that if you leave your car open in a place where cars get

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stolen, it may well get stolen. But if you lock it and it gets stolen, there's nothing more you could have done. Is that a good explanation? Yeah, that's very good. That basically means that you just need to do a bit assembly, the rest of all of that kind of hautala. And that's, that's the Islamic tradition. But when we go deep into the concept of Divine Decree, predestination is actually very empowering, it means that you cannot now really blame the physical things in the universe, where there's a human being a bunch of entities that basically have stopped you from achieving what you want to achieve, because those are only tools that allow users to manifest as well. So go

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Connect straight to Allah. Forget these intermediary, physical causes. And that's the interesting thing. So if that's the case, either just used by lots of ministers will, if we don't know Allah will, then that creates an infinite realm of possibility to achieve what you can, it's actually very empowering. We should, you know, be able to know we can achieve anything, and then we wait for Allah will and then if something happened that went against our own time, then we know this to goodness in it because of the Prophet Muhammad. He said it's something of harm before the Muslim is patient and that's also good. You know, it's good because he's thankful that's a perfect place to take a break.

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We'll be back after this from Abdullah roll.

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Meeting.

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The beginning there was nothing but not a single soul younger rule, nothing.

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No, no, no Planet Earth, no guiding star, no DNA, there was nothing near of the first thing that our Lord created was the pen

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to write down every single thing. So it wrote down everything that will come to pass until the day of judgment, that Day will be the last. And then he created the heavens and the evolution living thing inside his universe. The thing that he can compare to him, he gave birth to None. None gave birth to him.

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Depends on all depends on him. We all depend on him.

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provides the that we all agree the rain the sun the trees he knows what we need, his blessings and his mercy daily we receive should we not give him fangs we say we believe was all this created just for having fun, no reflection, no purpose, no reason. There's nothing that he will be left to wander free without being held accountable for all his deeds unless created so we can worship him. But his creation noise creatures only him associate none as a partner with your Lord. as true believers that's the thing we cared for. He is the only one worthy of our praise we all depend on him.

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You're listening to heart and soul on Qf radio with me, Lauren booth sharing his gems of knowledge today is Hamza sources. Salaam Hamza Wiley,

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we have been discussing how Allah will is manifest in this physical realm, and how we cope with that psychologically. And that the what can be seen as a boundary is actually actually a freedom. It's a freedom to understand that when things go wrong, it can be a benefit for us, but we can't see the benefit. But somebody somebody out there can. That's it. That's reinforcement, isn't it? that's reassuring.

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It is it is. And it shows us that we have a positive view on life. For example, even if something is

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bad, or seems evil, some kind of calamity, we have to get our magnifying glass, our good seeking magnifying glass or wisdom seeking magnifying glass, because we know ultimately behind this, there is a goodness and the wisdom behind this model for tunnel to Allah. And therefore when something disposes or is of suffering or evil, you now need to put that you start using that magnifying glass and look for that wisdom and goodness, because ultimately you will find it. How many times have we looked into our past and said to tunneler, you can expedite who writes the script is not me. If this bad thing ever happened to me, maybe I couldn't be in this position now. Like always, I'm in the art

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of the Islamic art of positive thinking that you know that Allah doesn't contradict his nature. Right? Because his will is a derivative of his nature and his nature is what goodness and produce His holy, I mean, he is wise, or rushman, he is loving the merciful algebra dude, he is the loving. So ultimately, all of the things that happen are in line with that, you see. So if you have those lenses of, of seeking the goodness, seeking the wisdom, seeking a more profound, deeper understanding, then this is phenomenal. I mean, even if you were to use your legs, a lot of it, right? Even if you lose your legs, that could be basically one of the best things that happened to

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you. You don't know. You don't know. Right? You know, I've actually seen that in action. I was I was in Gaza, and there's a young man called Mohammed and he had lost his legs due to war and violence. And when he woke up from a coma in an Egyptian hospital, the first word he said was Alhamdulillah thanks and praise to Allah. And his mother was crying and he said, Why are you crying? She said, Habibi, my son, you've lost your legs. He said, thanks be to God. Because God has kept me with my hands. And I can hold you and kept me with my eyes and I can see you and there is hair in this and nobody could believe his patience. out.

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side of that environment where patience is demanded.

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For sure. And you know, Allah says he doesn't burden us all more than he can bear for me, which is quite empowering. Because it means that Allah gives you a test. He knows that you can pass the test. And that is empowering because he knows you better than anyone out there is an alarm. Nobody, Alan knows Hamza, and Hamza knows something. Even if I think it has shortcomings, I love giving me a testing is he trying to say to me, Hey, you can pass this, because we have a Heidi's in here meeting, which is the collections of predict tradition, where the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said that when Allah loves a deliverer says,

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No attack is a part of life. You know, Allah says in the Quran that we have create death and life, you know, in order for you to be tested to see which one which one of you is, is best indeed invest in conduct. So this is very important kind of recharge for understand that, you know, when we are tested, that we have to basically understand we have the right tools to pass that test. And that's the search for them. Connect with Allah, make dua to Allah basically say to Allah, you know, you give me this test, let me find the wisdom and goodness behind this and give me the ability to pass, you know, what is really testing psychologically, a single two letter word messes us up, makes us

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unhappy, can put us into bed for weeks with depression, and worse. And that word is if, right, if, if I had done that, at that time, this would have happened. And I wouldn't be here now, which I don't like, if I do that, if you if you if you use that word for the future, if I do this, this is gonna happen. It's a huge weight on your shoulder, it's like the whole universe is on your back. Because everybody around you and every outcome is dependent on your particular moment and don't go into the past because Wow, how many ifs? Can we all drag up from that? You know, that backpack, right? Is from pieces of the past, doesn't equal the future. You know, the angels when Allah spoke

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to them and said, He's gonna sit on a vice chair on Earth, the angels replied, this is the sort of bucket of acidity, the angels basically said, Are you going to send some Madonna is going to create mischief in the blood. And Allah says, I know that which you do not know. Or then I say the reasons the angel said this, because they have past previous experiences, it was happening on us. And this just teaches us that don't always think that the past equals the future. And the thing that's very empowering as well, because every moment is a new moment. And every moment is a new moment follows, which manifests itself and you don't know what that will is, you really understand that, you know,

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you have that infinite realm of possibility to do what you can achieve what you can until it will manifest itself and what will manifest itself. And you know, it still ought to be based on some goodness, even if you don't like it, right? Because it is very important to the conversation, understand who Allah is and reflecting with his beautiful names and attributes. So absolutely, I mean, if the Cypriot Greek thing, basically is so and so's less than blastocyst and then most of the Phillips's given plasticizer, which basically means that if you planted it, you, you planted it, but you never grew. It's like, you know, this is like a seed that you think you put in the ground, but

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it never grew. It basically means, you know, don't worry about it. From that perspective, you know, it's like a, either never growth and even thinking about it, you know, not, you know, people think about what if I did this way, if I did that, you're never gonna have anything happen. I'm going to change anything. And psychologically, that is a paralyzing force. It is one of the most negative thought processes to get into. All of us will know somebody who is really caught in an IF moment. And what is our instinct, our instinct is to say, forget it, find closure, put it away, not to explore it, pick at it wonder about it. And this is actually you know, one of the ethics of the

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Quran is, is package the bat of the bad away, look back at the good that's been given to you and do not do if this is the nature of understanding part of understanding Divine Decree in predestination, because it sounds really understand this properly, they will never be depressed in their life. They never look back into you to think what if I did this way if I did that, because you know, that these things happen because of our level, and there's nothing you could have done. Even if you haven't had a mountain of gold. There's nothing you could have done to change these things. This is beyond your control. And one of the key signs to contextual type of depression is that you see control things

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that you can't control. You can't control the past, you can't control. This is beyond you. And you know, a sign of a kind of tranquil human being that they only focus on the things they can control. And if they have happened that against his own, you know, wishes when he knows this was from Allah, and there's nothing that he could have done to change this. And that is quite empowering. It removes that sense of what if

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And if you really understand who Allah is, which is exactly the point of the discussion, and you know, even if something happened in the past that you didn't like, no, it was from the one who is the most merciful, is the most loving, and he's the most wise. So the thing that you should be doing is how do I learn from these past experiences? Not from an IT perspective, but from a? How can I learn from this in order to prepare yourself into the present, you can be a more productive, peaceful, compassionate human being. That's the point. And that's where someone really understands that other than Honestly, I don't think we'll have this type of depression. let's let's let's wrap

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this up beautifully, with a beautiful spanner in the works if you like because there are a sincere appeal from the heart, from a person who believes in the divine oneness of God can change can affect I wouldn't say change can affect kado How can you How can you put that into in a package that for us and make us understand it Hamza?

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Well, is worshipped as the process of a lot of ways one said to us, and basically, I wouldn't change further but it could be part of the cause that Allah use in order for your life to be different and in the way that you want. So what we need to understand is that is the weapon of the believer as we know in our tradition, a spiritual weapon and we have to continually seek a lot of help and you know, to either puzzle for example, this make your practices something bad happened to you. Or if you want something good see the naked law, you know, seek Allah help because he's only controls everything, there's no point going to something else that has no control of these issues, go through

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the controls everything consider me Allah helped me achieve this. This is good for my Deen and my dunya then bring it closer This is bad for my Deen and dunya then it remove it away from me. And you know, if you looking at the past, this ask Allah you know that thing that happened to me last year, y'all look up the insight into your wisdom and insight into your mercy behind this, I learn the lessons from this I've become closer to and I could reach paradise and I could be a more productive human being and will and a good Muslim with compassion and peace and wisdom. These are very important things to have a dialogue and discourse of the loss of channel with Allah, he's the one

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who controls these things to go go to muster, go to the one who loves you more than your mother does. This is so important for us to have this connection. And you know, when you have made these dollars and you took tell us a tunnel was out of the plastic becomes positive, right and

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food in an amazing way. And then things that you asked for, you know that if you give it a good you know, given it maybe Allah is giving you something better, maybe in this lesson the hereafter. So be open to the people making draw people to the to a loss of Tana was the island. It was interesting. If you look at the narrative of chapter 18, verses six onwards with Musa alayhis, salaam and Qatar, you see that most of the time his whole role in that story was to find out some of the wisdom of God because he was given some wisdom that Moses wasn't given that he wasn't given. And if you see the character of Moses in that narrative, he tried to be patient and he was very humble. And I think

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it's very important if you're patient and humble, maybe Allah will reveal some of his wisdom behind the things that that happened and that will give us more. We hope for that. I hope for that for all of you may Allah Subhana Allah to Allah, Allah The all seeing the all knowing pour his abundance upon us all Many thanks to Hamza sources for joining me today on heart and soul. The producer for this series is a have a chef you've been listening to heart and soul until tomorrow Assalamu alaikum