Fiqh of Transactions #4 – Usury and Interest

Yo

mama to proceed. So, today inshallah we will go over the chapter on usury interest rate

or the complexity of this chapter starts from the very translation is it usually is it interest? How do you translate ribbon that, you know, starts to be complex from the beginning here

Riba is not necessarily charging interest because we will address that we will come to see that there are different types of labor, there is ribbon fabula, which is the river of increase there is rebellion that the river of exchange and there is Riba and a CL which is there above the firmament

and that is usually where interest may be applicable.

But

and also whenever it comes to interest, it is not just,

you know when you when you translate three, but as Usually, the The problem here is that usually in English means exorbitant interest, it means excessive interest, that does not mean interest. Whereas in Islam Riba is not only when the interest is exorbitant or anything, it is any,

any benefit that the lender accrues from the transaction is considered to the river, even if it is minimal benefit is considered rubber. Like if you if I give you $5,000, and you come back, you know, and if I expect that you bring me the $5,000 in a briefcase, next year, that is ribbon.

So, if I tell you, here's $5,000, but when you come back, I mean, if you bring them back in a briefcase, That's nice of you, and that is fine, you know,

that is fine, unless it is so premeditated.

But if, but if I tell you here is $5,000, for one year, like it's alone for one year, when you when you bring it back, just

bring it back in a briefcase, or someday

or anything, you know, like, put it inside anything that any benefit would be considered the rebel because the hobbyists which, you know, not necessarily established as a hobbyist, but the Mulligan Maxim is called low carbon zorana found forever, every loan that brings about benefits, or results in benefit that is benefit that the lender accrues or the benefit for the lender.

And also, you know, you have to put between brackets here where the benefit, because certainly when you give a loan to someone, you get an enormous benefit. But it is the sort of sort of afterlife in the afterlife, you get like a reward, large reward and a lot of pleasure. And that is the greatest benefit that we're talking about wherever the benefit here, so called no carbons or an offer forever every loan that we're bringing about

where the material benefit, maybe is is rubber. Because you could you know the like it basically it improves the relationship between people that's a benefit in this world. But we're talking about material worthy benefit. So, in this case, labor is not only about excessive interest, it is about interest any benefit that you accrue from loaning money, because loan should be a completely benevolent non for profit transaction giving loans should be a completely completely benevolent non for profit transaction.

Any transaction that was the that is expected basically to earn your profit should not should be

sort of a risk taking transaction of risk taking transaction, there should be liability as we said in the previous chapter, but demand, profit and liability go hand in hand. Profit and liability go hand in hand profit follows liability if there is no liability, there is no profit. So it should be an investment risk taking investment, where you could expect some

benefit some profit, but if it is not, if you're not if there is no risk taking because alone is not there. There is some risk taking but the money is guaranteed right? The money is guaranteed feasible.

Medina how

the money is guaranteed at least to the borrower is liable for the money. The borrower is legally liable for this money to return it back to you without any loss. If the borrower takes this money and invests in any undertaking or any business venture had loses all of it, that is not your responsibility. You gave them a loan, you get your money back. That is not your simultaneously. If you're not liable for any loss. You're not entitled to any profit. You're not entitled to any profit because the profit should follow liability coverage but the man so that is clear. So the CIF Rahim Allah tala demandgen Kodama, Allah tala said Baba Riba chapter on Riba usury slash interest and the

money started by this hadith.

But before we go over the Hadith, so is river halal or haram

because the routing is important,

you know,

linguistically river means increase but technically a river is haram river you know, all for all different types of Riba are haraam everybody up the river of exchange river fund the river of increased ribbon the sia river of deferment, all types of river that we will discuss later are haram and also it is like waging war against Allah subhanaw taala.

phenom tufaro has done over 100 women on mahira soda, tequila terranova, documentary a

documentary or your belief here Allah and leave

whatever remains

of the river of interest, leave off the interest or give up the interest that you are entitled to, from your revenue transactions came down when they were involved in rabid transactions. And Allah subhanaw taala said to them otaku

Riba and give up whatever remains for you, like

who the interest that you are entitled to conduct now.

So as if the idea came to retrospectively avoid all the rubber transactions and only entitle them to their capital.

Because once this prohibition came down, if they were entitled to a certain amount of interest, the I came to tell them,

give it up, don't take it.

And the eye award the Allah subhanaw taala warned them that if they don't fit into thought of as an ally or a soda, and if you don't desist from charging interest or taking the interest that you were entitled to

then

be warned of a war against you by Allah and His messenger. No one is up to this. The second thing that is important here is that the prophet SAW said I'm gonna have it reported by a Muslim from Jabba the line who said on a level accurate river were more kid who was a he they he worked at a table. And in some reports, Carla Humphries Misawa, they are equal in sin. Mayor locker is the one who devours the labor devours interest, the one who feeds it to him, or gives it

to them. And the two witnesses and describe the one who will write the contract and the two witnesses. And in some reports, the prophets are seldom said they are equal and sin.

They are equal instead. And that is basically to discourage people and

emphasize the gravity of the sin that has emphasized the gravity of the sin. So that's the ruling of Riba in general it is one of the enormities one of the

events, the sheikh said on how bad of an Islamic kata kata Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam para salatu salam has that was that was a little bit further, where Alberto Burri was Cyrus I agree with Tamra with tamari, while men have been men hayleigh to six, Mr. And Mr. Lin So

Mr. endemicity saw

us not for beer okay and can I help

biard semenza I was Dada Arbor okay. So, this is important now to understand this so he said and that is the hub which is gold for gold

or gold the paid for by gold

silver for silver

and then we

for weeds are paid for by wheat

and barley

paid for by barley

and Tom are they it's

paid for by dates

and how sold

paid for by soul

the profits are sad I'm sad Mifflin Demis linser and bisola which is equal for equal

Same for same equal for equal

y which means what or come back to it but he said for is heavy enough

and if they are different when he said the bureau gave us a term then you know trade as as you like in Can I have no idea if it is hand to hand an immediate transaction not a deferred transaction hand to hand and immediate transaction not a deferred transaction.

So he is the profit of Solomon Sterling has that there are two issues here to pay attention to which is equal for equal then that was in reference to whatever father the variable of increase

if you sell gold for gold,

they have to be the same way.

Equal for equal here means same way.

Because gold is usually measured by way, silver for silver has to be the same way.

These four have to be the same volume, because it's usually measured by carrier not by weight by volume, not by weight, or usually meaning the word during the time of the Prophet sallallahu.

So these were measuring the by volume not by weight.

And these were measured by weight.

These were measured by volume, these were measured by weight, which which is consequential

it's very consequential Okay, so he said

Mr. endemicity answer and so that's not for VR.

In Canada he hadn't beard. Now equal for equal and hand to hand.

We will come back and talk about whether

to strike because how to approach this as important should we talk about the headline now the effective cause and whatever

you know

should we talk about

actually thought of this last night and I'm not you know thought of the the approach to this because it is important.

Maybe we should talk about the effective clause.

Okay, let's talk about the effects of course. So, these are called the Rebbe we which means you're curious

items. These are injurious items, objects of sale, six of them.

By agreement, these are called derryberry items. By agreement These are called the Riba we use europaeus items. These six here. So gold, silver, wheat, barley dates and sold

by agreement by agreement

things outside of these things like things that are

okay. Except for the Harry's though Harry's that, that is it is only the six that are considered usurious items. But the rest of the people who employ PS or employee analogy said that there are effective causes behind these beanies, various items. And whatever here is the effective cause or the idol of the prohibition will also be a jury as it will also be a serious item. Now, we can't really do this in like very comparatively, we will have to have a lot of sort of a base and our base will be obviously the hungry mother artists the book. Okay.

So, in the Hanbury mess up and it is a beautiful base because I'm very much like usual they have different opinions, one opinion would be like the Hanafi is one opinion will be another one opinion will be like the sapphires. So we will not miss out on on much here.

So in the Hanbury, mez hub, there are three different opinions concerning the effective clause. Why are these considered usurious items and when we say usually as items, it means what it means trading those items will be more complicated, you have to trade them with caution, because there are certain stringent criteria to be applied when you trade them. And all of this we're talking about the type of rebar that is rebar of sales, because there are two different types of Ribbon Ribbon of sales and the ribbon of loans.

A neighbor of loans is straightforward. And that is what you guys are interested in hearing about.

Because all of this stuff is is technical stuff that you may not encounter. But certainly there are benefits of learning it.

But the river of loans is very easy the river of loans is when you expect a benefit from wherever the material benefit from giving someone a loan. This is an event nicey nicey means deferment. This is where you charge an interest in exchange for the deferment of payment, right? You charge an interest for in exchange for the deferment of payment. This is called the type of loans This is straightforward that there is no problem in this way it can be done now with the lecture.

Right? Okay, having said that, you know, this lecture could take five or six hours.

Because now let's talk about the labor of sales. Labor of sales applies to usually as items

and anything that shares the effective cars with the curious items. And it applies to

journalists as well, things that are of the same kind than the same benefits and how do you create things of the same kind than the same benefit, but that also apply that is also one of the effective causes of the prohibition

of the stringency in dealing with the various items and we will come to it. So, the river of sales,

sometimes you will have to trade the items equal for equal

and

all the time you will have to trade them hand to hand if they are labor, we have items of the same group and we will come back and talk about this. But

the handy dandy maths hub, what did the Hanbury say about the effective clause behind the prohibition here and the prohibition here like I said, they have three different opinions. One opinion says that the reason why these are considered to be usurious is that they are measured by weight. Gold is measured by weight here, you know, talk about opiate stuff, these are weights,

silver is measured by weight.

And that is that would that is the commonality between gold and silver. That is why they are

because when they look for the effective cause, they look for commonalities and is there also some suitability to assigning This

is also some suitability because there has to be some suitability just can cannot be any sort of extraneous quality that is completely irrelevant. It's called was photography, inconsequential attribute or inconsequential quality. There has to be some suitability

Is there any suitability in considering the effective cause behind calling these Reba we items that they are measured by weight? Yes, they will tell you that to measure the by weight, may or measure the by volume here, the fact that something is measured by weight and misery by volume leads to

rubber because they are the quantifiable measurable. So, if I tell you, for example

70 this laptop for this desk, you know, I'll give you the you know, give me this laptop now, I'll give you this this next month.

Is river obvious here. not obvious, but I'll tell you give me

four kilograms of silver and I will give you six kilograms of silver next month, problematic.

Okay, why? Because the fact that they are measurable by made fungible in general, fungible items in general with that are measured by weight and measured by volume can be used like currency, you know, in that sense, and in that sense, the river would apply to them, because they're fungible, and they're measurable, they are measurable versus the laptop for the desk, okay. So, there is some suitability in the scholars talking about, you know, the idea being that they are measurable by weight, because you could say for for six, you could say four kilos of silver now, six kilo grams of silver in one month,

here, the hanbali said, when it comes to these, that they are measurable by volume and that is dial. So, the idea is weight here and it is volume here, weight here and volume here.

So, anything that is measurable by weight or measurable by volume, in this case, would be ariba. We item and we will add to this anything else,

they did not they did not consider this idea of being foods these are all foods right? They they ignore that they ignore that

and they only looked at them being measurable by by volume. So, they will include things like cotton for instance if cotton is miserable by volume, they would include this not garments but cotton You know, when you harvest it, if it is miserable by volume, they will include this and they will include anything that is measurable by volume. This by the way, this idea of the idea being that they are measurable by weight or volume is also the Hanafi method. It is also the Hanafi method. And that is the more popular view in the Hanbury method. And it is consistent with the Hanafi method. They also talk about weight and volume measurable by weight and measurable by volume. Now, the

second opinion and the Hanbury method. You see the VA Harry's they just checked out and they're they're having fun now I don't have to worry about any of those. They say that this is only six items. bs is not applicable here.

Yes,

unfortunately, yes, it looks like they wouldn't. But but anyway.

But But then we will come back to it. We'll come back to it. But then

the second opinion and the Hanbury must have the second opinion how many Meza they're saying, Wait a second, no, one second, golden silver, there is something more to gold and silver than just being miserable by weight, something that is even more suitable to be diala than being measurable by weight. Gold and Silver are currencies, they are prices for other commodities, they are f man summon, they are prices for other commodities, they are the standardized prices for other commodities. So since they are f men, this feminine year, being prices of other commodities, being currencies is the effective cause here is the reason why they are usually as items in Hong Kong law,

the reason why they are injurious items. So they said

When it comes to gold and silver, the fact that the our prices are as man the money is the reason. So, this is number one, this is the opinion number two, when it comes to these when it comes to okay and here who agrees with them here the medic is interface. So, plus m plus s medic is interface would agree with them that it is the prices the fact that they are prices or currencies is what makes them

you know, usually has items, but about a year.

Then, when it comes to these now, when it comes to these four, there are a second opinion is pretty much in agreement with the chef or the opinion that these four that these four are

you know Reba we can we will come back and talk and that is you know my you know my hesitation is that they wanted to first say what applies to these before it gets every talk about the effect of clauses, when it comes to the ruling the equal for equal and handsome, but in general, just the fact that they have more stringent criteria and in trading them that is what it means. That is what being rebel means. They said these four, these four are Reba we because they are not all math. They are foodstuff,

foodstuff

and who would agree with them here, the sapphires. The Maliki's will need to add food that is stored and that is mocked at staples of food that are non perishable staple food for the Maliki's. But for the shafa is just food, just food in general. Okay, and that is the second opinion for the hand berries, what would be the third the opinion for the ham berries here?

The third opinion for the ham buddies, they will say no, it is not just to be in food. And that is the opinion that email epidemic shows here in London. They say it is not just being food, it is being food that is measurable by weight or volume, food that is measurable by weight or volume, and that would be their third possession.

So keep this here

as prices, and this here would be food

that is measurable by weight or volume.

So in this case, if you add food that is measurable by weight or volume, but you add staples of food to bring the malakian on board, you bring you know non perishable staples or food to bring the medic is on board. If you say non perishable staples of food that are measurable by weight or volume, that will be the agreement of the format that he has. These will be rare but we know none of the farmers that have will disagree with this, only the varieties will disagree because they don't they say it's only the six items. Okay, but if you say non perishable staples or food measurable by weight or volume with America's contest now because we gave you what you what you're looking for, per non

perishable staples. With the Sharpies contest No, we gave you the food that you're looking for with the HANA fees contracts will give you the measurable by weight and volume that you're looking for. So everybody will be in agreement here that these would be injurious items. But what about, you know, food that is not measurable by weight or volume? What about pomegranates? What about watermelons? They're usually they used to be measured by count, not weight or volume. What about those? No, they're not terrible. They're not injuries. So can you then send one watermelon for two watermelons? Yes, you can. Yes, you can. The shaft is would disagree because for the shaft a

foodstuff in general. I think the shaft is would disagree because it is just for this refrigerator that the Maliki's will say watermelons are not mocked at animada

they are not non perishable staples of food. The honeyberries will say that they are not measurable measure the by weight or volume. So that is where the this agreement takes place.

But in general to get this this idea because what you know what we will add to these six items will now depend on this understanding what is the ILO what is the effective cause behind calling these usually as items or rebellion, usurious items or rebellion. So, let us think of the laptop the laptop usurious

car

okay

tags

depends, you know that they are its foodstuff, but again at the same time they're, they're sold by count.

So, not sold and not miserable by way

shoes

Okay, so what about cash?

Okay.

Yes, according to the majority here, according to the majority, what is the majority here? It would be medic ease shafa is one report. That's not the stronger report anyway. And the Hanbury Meza somatic is shafa is one report that's not the stronger report and the Hanbury mas hub

that is basically

but there is there is there is another

issue here that

what if they are not Reba because let's get this out of the way I think we should they get this out of the way What if they are naturally, whatever they are, let's say cash, but they have two journals, they are they have similarity? similarity

and they are not riverway we agree that they are not the GP you can't add them to these six items, but they have two journals. Then if they have to Janos

cash in particular was called you know, or flus whatever for lose what would be like cash now, it is none sort of it is currency that is not made out of gold and silver that they used to have, during these times. Those who lose they did not give them the rulings of golden silver. But again, at the same time, the hanbali said that you there is no increase with deferment, and that would be the position of the HANA fees as well. The position of the HANA fees as well is that there is no increase with the Fermin and the apply this to any two items that are similar to each other, like

any two items that are similar to each other, like shares shall for like a goat for two goats a goat

for two goats.

Can you do this with a goat for two goats with deferment? Hi, goat now for two goats

in one month, Is this okay?

a goat now for two goats in one month. Is this okay?

not okay. Right? So if you got this by sort of the sense it doesn't feel right, right? It is okay according to the Maliki's and the Sharpies

because our goals usually as items

go to a much easier as items are they they're not so good It's like an animal we're not talking about even what we're not talking about meat here we're talking about an animal living animal gold for gold to gold for two goats. These are not usually as items monarchies and sapphires would say yes in fact that they will support their their position by reports from the Sahaba who used to sell one camel for four camels and so on. You know one camel immediately for four gallons per liter and so on.

Now, the Americans and Chinese will say okay, the ham bellies will say okay as well.

The ham bodies will say okay as well. But the magic is where when we'll pull out from this agreement when when this goal is just like this These goals. So akula Hulu bass are like the they have the same benefits uses the two items the two objects have say and have the same benefits or uses. So the mannequin will leave room for you know two items being called the same thing but they are not really

Similar to laptops, you know, at, you know, HP and hospital.

So the mannequins will come and say here, they don't have the same uses. They're called laptops, these are both laptops, they don't have the same qualities. So, the Americans will say, if these goals are just like these goals, then this arrangement is not permissible.

This arrangement would not be permissible.

So, according to the weaker report in the hand in hand and

no, not, actually it is not.

Okay, the two reports on the hunt any method here, I'm not I'm blanking out here on the stronger and the weaker report, but,

but I would say that it is it is actually a capitole here plus h plus m only, only m with this contingency, that these goals are exactly like these goals are exactly like these goals. So, m with this contingency,

they will say that this trade is not

is not acceptable. The shafa is are the ones who will continue all the way like sort of to find this trade acceptable to find this rate acceptable, then the majority here, even if cash is not usually as if cash is not usually Yes, but there is the journalists there is similarity here, then the majority would still say that cash, the obvious majority will stay safe say here that cash cannot be traded for cash with deferment and increase with deferment and increase

if you say if you say that cash does not take the same ruling of

that cache does not take the same ruling of gold and silver because the island is not being prices, has the magic ease and shafa ease and the lesson report and the Hanbury mother have said so, you say that cache is not unusual for years and then you switch from being hanafy there to be in chapter here and say and the shafali said that non usurious items can be traded for each other with the ferment and increase. So good

for two goats is okay then you can trade 10 pounds for 12 animals

that would be disastrous, right because that that will basically hit as the sort of the foundation of Riba itself Riba would become basically not applicable anymore. The chapter of Riba may not be interesting to study and will lose its relevance, because no one is using gold for gold or silver for silver you people are usually using cash now as the standard currency. So, if you say that 10 now for 12 later is permissible, you could actually get there.

You could you could get to that conclusion, while being compliant, consistent with one of them as I have throughout but it will require some switching and some patchwork

so that you can come to this conclusion. So when it comes to the idler, it seems that we really have to consider the idle here and that is the position of most of the contemporary hand bodies.

And the vast majority of contemporary scholars in general, that the idea behind these being used various items gold and silver, being used various items is what they are prices. It's not that they are measured by weight, that they are prices of other items. Price

currencies that are used standard currencies that are used for purchase of other items. That is the position of the majority in the past because it is Maliki's shaft is and 100 value report, even though it's not the stronger versus the position of the Hanna fees and the stronger hand body report that they are measured by weight, but the ham bodies were divided here. So, we gave some more weight to the medic and safaree position versus the Hanafi position in considering

the idea here to be prices

regardless of the old this agreement has I said once we start to say that the idea here is not that they are prices not that they are currencies, we will end up in trouble has a whole chapter of rubber and we will have a lot of confusion with a whole chapter of rubber and most hero and it's It is not like we we like hardship or we like to make things

you know difficult for people. But honestly speaking most of the banking like industry and transactions will be fine

because cash will not be subject to the stringency that was which these items are treated cash will not be subject to the stringency with which these items are treated. Now, I want to say because it is important here that the Prophet sallallahu Sallam when he talked about those items, he said

phase of setup and happiness not for bureaucracy. So, when can I have no idea if these items are different, then you may sell as you'd like as long as it is hand to hand if telephones heavier as long as these items are different meaning gold for silver.

Okay.

Meaning wheat for barley. Right, meaning wheat for sold.

There they are not the same kind, then for beer. Okay, officiating. Zana does not have to be equal for equal does not have to be equal for equal obviously, does not have to be equal for equal.

But he said in Canada did have the share the same effective clause of prohibition, they have to be hand to hand. So, we said gold and silver by agreement share the same effective cause of prohibition right.

These four share the same effective cause of prohibition. So, one item from this group and whatever you would add to this group, whatever you add to this group here, one item from this group

cannot be traded for the other item from this group within this group.

Except hand to hand it has to be hand to hand no different hand to hand, immediate transaction, no deferment, but it does not have to be equal for equal that because if it is not hand to hand, it's called did it but he had, which is the river of exchange, you know, failing to immediately exchange the two items.

Now, between these two groups between these two groups, so gold for weed,

gold for weed between these two groups?

Does it have to be hand to hand?

No, it does not have

between one from this group and unreal, but we're not usurious. It doesn't have to be hand to hand. No. So it doesn't have to be equal for equal doesn't have to be hand to hand. What if you can sit there go the ends silver the ELA in the provision of goal of the ELA in calling golden silver usurious whatever you consider this not to be that they are prices, but to be that they are measured by weight. Can you exchange something else that is measured by wait for golden silver was deferment? Yes, even the people who say that they are that they share the same Angela the cell said Ellen Naka in except for the two currencies. You could always because by agreement, by agreement, gold and

silver can be traded for other commodities. In the so called by I'll add them which is deferred payment transactions are simple.

And buy sell them which is advanced payment transactions or sales advanced payment transactions by agreement gold and silver can be prices for other commodities any other commodities, whether they are measured by weight or not. So, is that clear, so, always gold and silver for for other than gold and silver and certainly other than cash because cash is like gold and several Indian currency currencies in general can be traded for other items

with the ferment the ferment and increase among themselves that group of items among themselves No, they have to be an immediate transaction. So, you cannot buy gold

and pay later you cannot buy gold installments, you cannot buy gold with a deferred deferred payment plan that is not permissible. Why because they all share the same idea of being prices.

But if the IRA was Wait, you still can buy things that are measured by weight and pay for them pay gold for them or cash in the form of payments or installments.

Okay.

But what makes you know, so we understand the redundancy and we understand the wisdoms behind the prohibition of redundancy or deferment that it will result in exploitation of the poor in widening the social the socio economic strata in the society. In money begets money, which causes the economy to slow down it gives strength or value to capital against labor, it will result in being being lazy to

take part in real business ventures, if money can be get money. And if I just put my money and get guaranteed interest guaranteed, you know, pay back, why would I risk my money in a in a true real business venture on the ground. And all of these are hand desirable outcomes. But the Sherry I wanted to fight, actually, I wanted to fight the exploitation of the poor, because interest could put them in a vicious cycle that would end up in their bankruptcy, that's really I wanted to fight the extreme widening of the socio economic strata, the extreme not the presence of socio economic strata or anything, but the extreme widening, where the poor become really much poorer, and the rich

become much richer, just by the fact that they own the capital, the capital itself brings income for them, without them doing anything, you know, the cover, so they say I wanted to give labor, some value against capital. So you could only earn profit, if your money is being invested in a true under business venture in a true investment. So you could go buy a farm, you could go like purchase, you know, share, buy shares in a store, some business, real business venture. So all of these things are understandable, it's easy to basically talk about the wisdom of the prohibition of revenue or the river of deferment, but what about these other types of river of savings? You know, why does it

have to be equal for equal Why does it have to be hand to hand here. So, this is certainly these are reflections but not necessarily something others particularly prove it really bad and fabulous prohibited because it eventually leads to revenue See, when people get used to when people get used to trading, for instance, silver for silver,

you know, to to pay off silver for let's say 10 grams of silver for 15 grams of silver

in an immediate transaction. In an immediate transaction, you get used to trading 15 grams for 15 grams in immediate transaction, this may result in people doing the same thing in a different transaction.

Because they will think that you know, if I'm doing this now like 10 for 15, okay, how to get you the 15 grams of silver next month and that will result in revenue or variable of deferment. So, that is why

you know

The the means to evil were blocked at the very outset or the very, very beginning

of the road. Is it clear to some extent?

You know, is it really problematic or it's

you know, the river of loans is very clear and straightforward, when you give a loan to somebody you cannot expect a profit or increase or any material worthy benefit from this loan, because otherwise would be a rubber, the rubber of seals is a little bit complicated.

But in general the agree that these six items are injurious, they agree that within the same group of same group that shares the same handler, the same headline prohibit prohibition, things have to be if it is the same kind, it has to be hand to hand an equal for equal, if it is different kinds within the same group, it does not have to be equal for equal but it must be hand to hand. So wheat for barley must be hand to hand because they are within the same group. If it is between the two groups, then it does not have to be hand to hand or equal for equal if it is between one thing from one of these two groups and one thing from outside, which is an unusual item to begin with no

stringency whatsoever, it does not have to be equal for equal does not have to be hand to hand there is some exception here, when it comes to the non usual yes items, if they are of the same type the same kind, you know, then, in this case, the majority will say

that they cannot be

traded with increase and deferment, you know, so, one goat for two goats later the majority said no, no, particularly if they are the same goats and their medic is one now I agree with the majority of the are the same goes this have the same qualities, the same uses and everything. So, one left one apple laptop that came out of the factory with the same sort of what features like it like, you know, the so three laptops now, they have the exact same features, you cannot trade one, he cannot trade one now, for two later. You cannot do this. If the three laptops share the same exact features, everything. There are not usually as items yet. This dijanna knows the exact similarity

between them. Makes it a problem to trade them with increase and deferment.

All of that's clear. Okay, good. And we will have to stop. I mean, it's you know,

but then, then I think we should leave time for people because some people have commitments and arrangements. So let's leave five minutes for people to leave and then we will take all the questions that you have