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05 The Muslim Dowry Bubble

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The Baba Ali Show

Channel: The Baba Ali Show

Episode Notes

Special guest Sheikh Navaid Aziz joins the Baba Ali Show to discuss:

  • the 1 million dollar dowry story
  • the impact of high dowries on the Muslim Ummah
  • is the dowry issue cultural or religious?
  • advise for those looking to get married
  • the concept of dowry
  • cheap men and greedy women
  • parents trying to get a cut out of the dowry

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Bobby Lee Show Episode Five the Dow every bubble in the Muslim world. This podcast has been brought to you by half our Dean calm and Muslim marriage website designed for those who want to find that other half privately because the only people that should know you're looking to get married or people who are looking to get married. Try half our Deen today. Look to your right there's a bunch of single men that want to get married. Look to your left. There's a bunch of single women who want to get married, but most of them are not getting married. And one of the reasons why more and more Facebook profiles show single or it's complicated is because of the Dow Theory. Did you say Dow

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Jones? No, I said dari What's the difference? Dow Jones the stock market it goes up and down. The Diary only seems to be going up. I think I'm gonna print some people's buttons on this one.

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For cultural Muslims have confused the masses and speakers are forced to be politically correct.

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voice changed.

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Hey, man, why Oh, serious. This is just a podcast.

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Welcome to the show. I'm your host Bobby Lee. Getting married is always a hot topic. And one of my favorite topics to actually cover you seen this seminar for to to get married. There are guidelines that need to be followed. Contrary to popular belief, in order for a marriage to be valid, the consent of both the male and the female need to be there and the wallet with agreed upon dowry. What is a dowry? It's a gift a woman asks for you mean what? I can pick anything I want? Yeah. Let me give you an example. How about 100 pounds of exotic chocolate? Yeah. How about a cat a Persian one with fancy whiskers that eats out of a fancy glass? Yeah. How about a brand new car? Yeah, having a

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briefcase full of cold hard cash with a bonnet? Yeah. How about me driving a brand new car with a fancy Persian cat sitting in the front seat with the fancy whiskers eating out the fancy glass while I'm eating 100 pounds of chocolate and holding on a briefcase full of cash. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

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Yeah, the diary has a minimum but no maximum. Now I know the whole diary thing sounds something really strange for non Muslims who are listening to the show. Then again, the idea of two dudes getting married while going through a drive thru in Las Vegas by Elvis impersonator is very strange for the Muslims that are listening to this show. You know what I'm saying? At the end, the reason why we Muslims follow these guidelines is because we want to please our Creator, you know, I mean, so it's, it doesn't really make sense for a lot of guests, a lot of non Muslims because they don't understand why we follow these steps. But for Muslims, we know that Islam is the total package.

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Everything from the way we pray to the way we fast to even the way we get married is all through a guidelines of Islam. So we see the dowry issue of today. And the problem isn't the dowry, or rather the mentality of the people to enlighten us on this subject. I decided to bring in this very special guests to talk about this thing. And he's actually one of the coolest chefs I know, even though he's a big guy, he's not intimidating at all. But if he wasn't the chef, he would probably be in the MMA, but I don't think he would like do that. Well, because he smiles a lot. He's like, really, really friendly. And because his smile is contagious, his opponent will start smiling too. And then they

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would end up just having like a smile off like as like a smiley contest, and then they're probably becoming friends and the audience would see the whole thing and they'll do but I don't know I can give him like a regular intro like I do with my other graphs, but I think he needs like a special intro. You know what, even though he's on the MMA, let me give him an enduring intro. Can we do that? All right, let's do that.

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Ladies and gentlemen, we are moments away from the moment you have been waiting for Welcome to the

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in the right corner wearing white denim towering at six feet two inches tall. His professional record includes an associate's degree in commerce and social sciences, followed by a degree in the Arabic language followed by an impressive bachelor's degree in Sharia with a specialization in pink and blue outfit. hailing from Calgary, Canada. Here is the pound for pound one of the happiest shakes in the world shake.

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Welcome to the barbell

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Show Assalamualaikum waalaikumsalam Allahu Allah cattle. So today's topic is a bit controversial because it's something that sisters choose. And that's the diary. So I think a lot of people look at this almost like a price tag, like, Oh, this is how much my daughter's worth versus this is how much your daughter's worth. So, for example, I think this is my theory shift on how this whole thing came about. One father said, you know, how much is a song, so giving their dowry for, and the man will say, Oh, they are giving 1000 1000 My daughter is better than their daughter 5000.

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Come in, says how much 5000 our daughter is the best. She's half as of Quran 50,000. And then it keeps going and keeps going. It's like the stock market that keeps going up, and everyone is sweating bullets, because the men are like, how we're gonna get married? Yeah.

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Totally. I want to share a story with you at this time. And this is like the, like, sort of the reason why I became passionate about this topic, okay, this is probably about six months ago, I'm in my office, and this brother comes in, and he's like, Look, you know, Mike, myself and my father in law, we've had a dispute, I'd like you to arbitrate it between us. I was like, Sure, no problem, you know, come in, and the guy comes in, and I'm like, Okay, so what's the issue? And he's like, No, I want to get married to his daughter. And I proposed a dowry of $1 million, but he's rejected. 1 million.

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I'm like, yo, that's so generous of you. I can't imagine what the issue is, like, what could possibly be wrong with a million dollars in the

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US like, this is ridiculous. This is absurd. I want 1 million up front and 2 million Walker. And you know, the consequence of that is, if they get divorced, then he has to give another 2 million. Now. This is the the catch to the story. And this brother just freshly graduated from university a year ago. He is not a doctor. He's not some crazy scientist. He was, you know, Marshall, he had a good job as a regular accountant. So I'm assuming at most, you know, he probably makes between 50 and $60,000. I mean, do the math. Even if you want to pay off that $1 million? It would take him his whole life. His whole life lifetime. Yeah, exactly. $3 million, is like mathematically impossible.

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Unless this guy wins, like the some sort of a Halloween lottery or something. And it was just absolutely absurd. And like, no matter what we tried to do with the father in law, he would not have it is like, no, my number is set. I'm not budging from it. And it was like the poster, you know, absurd conversation I've had with someone in a very long time. So Pamela, where do they get these numbers from? That's why I'm so confused about honestly, look, it's like, literally, as you were mentioning it, it's this concept of, you know, pride that our daughter has to have the highest price tag, because she's better than everyone else's daughter. Now, from the Islamic perspective, two

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things are being forgotten over here. The first thing is the prophets of Allah and he was sending me the very, very clear that the best of weddings are those that have the least financial burden. Right. And this includes not only the cost of the wedding wedding also includes the dowry, and that's why the positive sentiment, you know, encouraged to have very humbled dowries. Now, this needs to be understood in this proper context. The second thing you know, is the dimension and add on to this was the salary of a girl is meant to be, you know, the average of what a girl of her status in her community and her society has and that's, you know, stick to the status quo basically

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not to make things difficult for people. Now, why did Islam legislated stipulate this, just so this sense of competition doesn't exist.

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We're not supposed to compete with one another for who has the higher dowry, like our status with Allah subhanho wa Taala does not increase or decrease based upon how much dowry we paid. It always comes down to taqwa. And I think you know, those important concepts are often forgotten in this situation, what impact you think this whole dollar thing has had on like the Muslim marriages, huge impacts, I mean, huge impacts so like in particularly in a segment of our society, they are this concept of Walker and Walker is like, you know, this is like a contingency plan if they end up getting divorced, like an exit strategy and exit strategy.

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So you know, and it's like some ridiculous amount usually it's like two or three times and in some cases you know, even 10 times what the the initial dowry itself is. Now there's several points that come out of this number one when the guy is getting married is like already you know financially in debt because he probably has to you know, set up a new house get a new car pay for the wedding pay for you know, all the foods people gifts, people a whole bunch of stuff right? He's already in debt. That's you know, it's already difficult then you add on top of that the dowry itself and this dowry it becomes a debt right that people think you know that the dowry is something that's very easy

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going if this man passes away, that gets a debt in his neck that someone has to pay off it is it is not pardoned unless the girl herself pardons. Wow. I never knew that. Yeah, it's scary that a lot of people don't know this. You know, it's like you're about to meet Allah subhanaw taala and your soul is suspended, you know, from any judgment and reckoning to their debts are settled shift that makes me want to be scared. Like, I can imagine any youth could be scared to death of trying to get married because like, I can't get married, why? I don't want to be debt for the rest of my life.

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Life. Exactly, exactly. And that's why sapan Allah the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was so spot on when he said that a woman is married for four reasons. And he ended off by saying that if you marry for the sake of the deen, then you know, you'll be happy and you'll be contented. But when you marry for other reasons, you know, you're putting your your your fate into chance. Things may work out, things may not work out. But if you find a good religious family, and particularly that has the taqwa of Allah subhana wa Tada. inshallah, we'll make things easy. Let me get back to your previous point in terms of, you know, what effects does this have on the community and society

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itself? So once you know, you start raising the concept of the dowry, and the price tag that it comes with? Yeah, you know, it's basically basically making the harem very, very easy for the people and the halaal becomes extremely, extremely difficult, which is against Islamic principles. We're supposed to be the exact opposite. We should be making the hot arm as difficult as possible. And the halaal as easy as possible. Yeah. And that's why you will see that no other the concept of pornography, the girlfriend, boyfriend culture, even like, you know, promiscuity, you know, outside of marriage. They're becoming so rampant, like so, you know, common that it's not even taboo in our

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communities anymore. You know, it's so strange to Pamela. There's this huge taboo with polygamy, but you know, which is, you know, religiously sanctioned. But if you still commit Zina, or if he doesn't pray, or he drinks alcohol, or it's no big deal, you know, it's not a problem at all the irony, exactly the irony behind it's upon a lot of those concepts over you know, like the pornography and the promiscuity. And that's, you know, what the high Tao is lead to, and this is what happens if you don't follow the laws of Allah subhanho wa Taala. You know, fitna and facade will will take over the lands and that's what we're seeing in our time span law. Do you think this dari these high numbers

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are coming with a woman who's getting married? Or things coming from her parents? And do you think that's the problem? Um, I think it's a combination of the two. Like, there's certain girls that you know, they feel very insecure about themselves, and they become extremely greedy. So they're like, you know, I want this high price tag, you know, hopefully, it will scare him off from ever divorcing me. Right? Yeah. But then what she fails to realize is that she's made things so difficult. He might not divorce her, but he's gonna he might he's gonna emotionally torture psychologically torture in the marriage, just so that she'll POW. And like, she'll pardon the dowry, I think you can get out of

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the marriage scot free. Wow. It's like a catch 22. And the second thing, Ali, this is like, the most craziest thing I've ever seen in my life, is that, you know, in certain cultures, they have this concept of the parents deciding the dowry, so that the dad can actually get a cut out.

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It's insane, is like the dads like, you know, I raised my daughter for like, 20 years of her life. I fed her I sent her to school, I did all this other stuff, you know, why shouldn't I get a cut out of them? cashing in ching ching ching ching. Exactly. It's like, you know, I couldn't play the lottery. But I'm going to tell my daughter, instead of having a lot shift, I have this video where I made where I actually brought up this issue in one of my YouTube videos, and the guys reading the letter of the request from the sisters family and saying, oh, and I want this and I want this. And my mother, she wants granite kitchen countertops. My brother needs jet skis. My son says what is it

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that Santa Claus is not a wish list, but unfortunately, it's come down to that people think that they're cashing in as soon as one of their families getting married. It's unfortunate, it's as if they treat their their daughters like a commodity. And you know, people misunderstand the concept of dowry. So chef, please tell us what the concept is. So the concept of dowry This is like, you know, a sign of affection, a sign of commitment between the husband and the wife that you know, before, you know, we become husband and wife, I want to show you how much I care for you how much I love for you, how much I love you how much I'm going to be willing to take care of you by providing for by

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providing this gift for you. And this gift is yours, you know, I islamically I can't take it back. Whereas now it's become like, you know, if you want me this is what you have to pay. It's almost like and please excuse my language. When I say this, it's almost as if it had dragged on me like, you know, make prostitution Hello through marriage is that you pay a price tag for for that relationship. And it's so so like, disgusting when you think about his suppiler It's sad how we've gotten to this point. I mean, what advice do you have for the people who are looking to get married? I mean people who are dealing with the parents who are insisting on having the diarrhea some crazy

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price tag that's making it very difficult for the sister to get married. Yes. You know, it's very, very unfortunate. So dealing with you know, the parents This is like the the loophole you know, in in Islam you know, we have this general principle every time things become difficult to study I will come and provide an ease in that situation. so in this situation where a girl and boy like each other and everything is good, they're compatible and they're ready to get married. And the only thing that literally is stopping them from getting married is this price tag in between Yeah, in that situation. I would say you know given to your parents request, whatever the parents say they

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want 100,000 on the contract put 100,000 at the end of the day once they get married, the girl has full right and authority to pardon that that dowry and that debt wow she has all power power of attorney is the sister exactly as in the sisters hand. As long as you trust the sister as long as you know she has the you know Dean and taqwa you know, whatever the parents stipulate, put it on the court

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tract, you guys eventually get married, the parents don't have direct jurisdiction in that marriage. If the girl wants to pardon, it's purely her right to do so at that time, terms of, you know, advice for people getting married, you know, I can only emphasize what the prophet sallallahu wasallam said that, you know, if you want to have bodak in your marriage, make it the least financially burdensome. And this is people you know, they need to understand this, if you come in on a white horse, and you know, you feed people, caviar, and escargot and all this fancy stuff, trust me, you know, may not even a year later, not even like 10 days, they're not even like three days later,

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people will forget all of that people will not remember any of that. Right? Yeah. But they will remember the fact that you got married, and they will be happy for that fact. So whether you feed them you know, chicken and rice or bread and hummus or you know, some crazy expensive thing, or if you have some extravagant wedding or a simple wedding, you know, at the end of the day, people want to see you happy, they don't care about what you spent, or you know, what, what you what you've done? Yeah, because the reality is everyone's gonna forget, because the next wedding will come along, except for one person. Yeah, the one paying the bill.

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I don't forget, yeah, what do you $5,000? Brother $25,000 on a lot. So I mean, keep that in mind. A second thing I would mention is, you know, going back to the whole concept of doing what we can to make the highlight easy, and I think, you know, our generation we are trendsetters, right, we want to set trends. So if we're gonna set trends, you know, let it be good and halaal. And sooner trends, right, let's make marriage easy. Let's make the hot arm difficult. And let's move forward in that way. Sharla Sharla? Is it true that the more accessible the directory is, the more disliked it is? So I mean, this needs to be understood in its context. So you can agree to a high dowry, if there

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are two extremely rich families coming together, okay. So for example, it's like two kings getting together, you know, you don't expect like a dowry of like, $10, or something like that. Right? Okay. It's like something reasonable according to the societal norms of what a princess would get, of course, right? So the same thing over here is that as long as it's, you know, this is a societal norm, and it's not financially burdensome upon the people, then that is permissible. But as soon as it becomes financially burdensome, or it goes beyond whatever the societal norm is, then yes, it would definitely be disliked and, you know, considered harmful for sure. Is there more butter cup

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for the lower amount, or it doesn't make a difference? I would say yes. There's definitely more Baraka for the lower amount. I mean, you know, when you make things easy for the people, you know, Allah subhanho wa Taala loves that he loves people that make things easy for other people. But again, I want to give a disclaimer over here, you know, we have this movement between men and women where men are becoming extra stingy when it comes to the dowry. So but So, I mean, I'm not kidding.

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Like, I remember I was at a gathering, you know, a couple of weeks back and sharing, like marriage stories of who had the lesser dowry. The guy's like, you know, I only paid 5000 He's like, you know, I only paid 2000 I only paid 1001 guy busts out, you know, what I only gave, you know, my wife, a Koran. That was our thing. And I was like, you know, what type of competition is this? There's not a that's not a good competition. Oh, no, the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he tells us the best of us are those that are best to their wives. It is a part of our pride, a part a part of our dignity, a part of our honor for us to take care of our families and our womenfolk. You know, any

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dollar we spend is considered as sadaqa. That will bring us closer to Allah subhanho wa Taala. So this is not the time to be stingy. You want to be stingy, stingy, when you're buying your next technological gadget, be stingy when you're buying your next article of clothing, be stingy when you're buying a car, but don't be stingy when it comes to your family. So that's from a guy's perspective. And from the woman's perspective, it's the exact opposite that I alluded to earlier as panela you know, certain sisters are very, very insecure. And this leads them to becoming extremely greedy when it comes to the dowry. So even though you know, there's a social norm, maybe like,

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$5,000, there'll be like, no, what I want $50,000. And I was like, why are you making things difficult for no reason, like do not want to get married? you intentionally would not want to get married? Why are you trying to self sabotage yourself? And it's just crazy, man. So I'm like, wow, you know, I've actually heard that the dowry issue has caused an increase in homosexuality in parts of the Muslim world, because people just can't get married. Have you heard anything like that? I mean, this is what I was talking about earlier, is that it definitely leads to sexual perversion banned by sexual perversion. I mean, people getting addicted to pornography, people, you know, going

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to see prostitutes, and you know, even leading to homosexuality, of course, and I believe it's becoming quite common in the Muslim lands. And when marriage has become so difficult, Allah did not create men to you know, control their sexual desires for an unlimited amount of time. They can do it for a limited amount of time. But eventually, you know, the, the, you know, life needs to take its natural toll, and it needs to progress. And it's very unfortunate that you know, it's led to pornography, it's led to the homosexuality it's led to, you know, problems prostitution being rampant and, and so on and so forth. And I for sure, I believe it's a very common trend in a lot of

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Muslim countries. Unfortunately, as a guy who runs a Muslim matchmaking website, I always looking for ways to help people get married. All I can do is connect them with one another, but after that point, it's up to them.

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And if it comes down to like, this is a perfect match between the male and the female and the families get along and everything stops at the dowry, and they part ways is kind of sad, especially if it doesn't fall into the category we're talking about if it's not the norm, right, so he's asking for something excessive, like the story, you initially told us of the 1 million to $2 million in the back end. I mean, this is not realistic. And unfortunately, these sisters are going to get older and older, and their fathers are the ones that are holding them back at points because of this whole dowry. And it's not really religious, it's, it sounds like this decision is more of a cultural

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decision. Is that right? 110% is not only as a cultural decision, it's shaytaan. Playing with people's minds, it's people chasing the dunya. And in a way that that it should not be chased. It's a wide variety of things. And you know, that that thing of delaying marriages is becoming so scary in our times, where the average age of getting married was like, you know, let's just say 1819 years old. This is about 50 years ago. Now. It's like, no, I 10 years to that 2829 is the average age someone is getting married. Wow. And that's that's just a scary thought. Cipolla like that, as I was alluding to earlier, that you know, we weren't meant to control our sexual desires for that long.

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Like you can fast you can lower your gaze, you can you know, limit your interaction with the opposite gender, but a time comes where you need to get married. No, this is what Allah Spano tala wants from us. So you can't talk too fast for 10 years.

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Exactly. And then no, due to these high numbers, you know, men, when they start thinking about marriage, they're like, you know what, I'll probably have to work for 10 years before I can possibly get married. And that naturally, you know, delays it for the sisters as well, because there's no students for them. So they're all scared off. Wow. Yeah. That's why I brought you onto this podcast, because I think you see things of marriage situations, people not getting married, that average person may not see. And sometimes people feel like, Oh, it's just my isolated issue. And you shed a good amount of light on this topic. And it's very thought provoking. Do you have any advice to share

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with the people who are listening, I would only advise you know, whatever are less financial advisors with and that is to have Taqwa of Allah subhanaw taala. You know, a day will come where we're going to stand in front of Allah subhanaw taala, your question is about what we did. And we need to have a good answer for every decision that we made every action that we took, if we don't, we should not partake in that action. And this particularly ties into the dowry, no, for the fathers, I would say, Fear Allah with respect to your daughters, they are not a commodity, they are not merchandise that you're selling off, you should not have a cut in it. Right? advice to my

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sisters is, you know what, put your trust in Allah subhanho wa Taala, your risk is destined for you from wherever it's going to come. Allah is written for you for written aid for you already, do not be so insecure, and start preparing for divorce, even before you get married, like psychologically, that will self sabotage you with a man, I would say, look, be a real man. Be proud of spending upon your family, be proud of, you know, getting closer to Allah subhanho wa Taala by, you know, fulfilling the contract of marriage that God has given you. And you know, giving the dowry that you you've agreed upon. It's not a competition of stinginess. And that would be my general advice. You

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know, one last thing I'll mention over here, and this is like another cultural taboos, allegiance, which was when the guy's family asks for a dowry. So in certain parts of the world, when a girl and a guy are getting married, the guy will give a symbolic gift to the girl, it'll be like, you know, something like $100 or something like that, okay. But then the girl's family has to buy like a brand new TV, a new sofa, said, you know, furnish the whole house, you know, buy them a new car, maybe buy them a new house, and it's the exact opposite of what Islam dictated. And this is obviously coming from other religions and from other cultures. And it's slowly you know, it's seeping its way into

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Islamic culture. And wow. So I would say, you know, what we need to educate ourselves about you know, what Islam actually says about this is that the dowry is the girls, right? Not the dads, not the husband's family, not the husband. It's purely the girls, right? It's amazing. Like Muslims, not only do we not follow our own religion, but we start taking other people's religion

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to Islam, and we call it all Islam, and then we wonder why people are confused. Yeah. That's very true. That's very true. Chef, you have been once again, very insightful, very thought provoking. You've enlightened us Mashallah. And every time I speak to you, I always learn something new. I just want to say Jazakallah fer for coming on to this podcast. Can you please let us know how we can find you online? For sure. So I'm on Facebook. It's facebook.com backslash navaid Aziz, sent me on Twitter twitter.com backslash in the bay disease. And those are the two main places that are hanging out online. Sokoloff fair. Thank you very much for coming onto the show. It's been a pleasure having

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you My pleasure. This is Baba Li You have been listening to the Bob Marley show. You've listened to all the way to the end Mashallah. So I'll ask you to do is go to Baba ali.com leave us your comment. We want to read it and make sure you go to iTunes and click on the subscribe button if you liked this whole entire series and tell your friends about it. This is Baba Li Jazakallah Hara assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.