Umm Jamaal ud-Din – My Journey to Islamic KnowledgeA Podcast Interview
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the challenges of pursuing a master's degree in honoring the Hanbury and the importance of finding the right environment for learning Islam. They also talk about the success of studying in the public eye and the cultural context behind female scholarship. The importance of writing and regular access to sources is emphasized, and the need for regular access to sources and a strong desire to study and learn about the religion is emphasized. The speakers also discuss the importance of finding original sources and being patient in learning. They emphasize the need for regular access to sources and the importance of knowing the deen deeply. The speakers also touch on the negative impact of the "arson behavior" of men on women and the importance of empowering women through learning and guidance.
AI: Summary ©
Today's special guest is her home jamaludin geneticist from Australia but his studies in Saudi Arabia push the seeker ages to teach the divvied from Shia Karima there Pinsky the students of the renowned chef Ayman suede, she completed a BA languages was major in Arabic at the University of Western Sydney, and then went on to study with al Qaeda and filk from Arabic scholars based in Saudi Arabia. She has studied comparative films based on the explanation of the Hanbury manual of film on the underground film and is currently also completing a BA honors and silca Anil students of Medina in International University. She has been teaching in Arpita, to woman at the Islamic College of
Australia for about 10 years under the supervision of Sheikh Hamza Salaam who would and has been an active Dahlia and public speaker for over 15 years. She 100 Ma, I am so honored to have you on this podcast. And Monica Welcome koloff
for inviting me Baraka lafay, he, I don't actually refer to myself as a chef, I just call myself a standard barakallahu Li.
Yeah, all about like recognizing martial art female scholars have
been in the business for a long time. And that's it. From now on, Vaizey. Okay.
All right. So I'm just gonna jump right into this, um, what drew you to pursuing Islamic Studies in such a intense, dedicated academic manner?
Okay, so,
of course, everything's from a Lhasa pantalla. Ultimately, he, you know, he puts that inclination in your hearts number one, but, um, I, you know, I have to say that I did grow up, you know, in a family that put great value on education and reading. My father, of course, he's a non Muslim, he's a light preacher. But he had, he does have like, multiple degrees in various, you know, academic sciences. So I always had that, you know, I always wanted to go for a higher education, even before Islam.
And I was always interested in reading up on different religions, even from a very young age. So I've always had that curiosity and learning, it's always been there. So basically, what happened with me is, you know, once I took my Shahada, I was still living at home, with my non Muslim family at that stage, you know, I was very challenged in my different environments, and I was living at home with a non Muslim family, I was going to work.
You know, we, you know, obviously, an all non Muslim, right workplace because this is many years ago, as well. And, you know, most of us were not very visible in those days. And also, I was at uni, I was studying part time uni as well. Oh, wow, you have a lot on your plate. I did. And you can imagine when I embrace this lamb, it was very, like, shocking for everybody in those three different environments. And so I was having challenges basically thrown at me, from all the different people that, you know, in those various environments, and because I felt so challenged, and I was constantly being questioned for why I had accepted this man. I do believe that that, you know,
propelled me into wanting to strengthen myself with knowledge, you know, like, I just had to for survival, like I really had to seek knowledge for survival in those early days. So it did start out like that.
Obviously, there weren't as many resources and access that we have now. take for granted today. Oh, no, it was really primitive. I mean, obviously, you know, these days you can just open up your computer and do a Google search I mean, back then it was really had to rely on word of mouth try to find somebody who might have enough knowledge to kind of give you the answers that might satisfy your your doubts.
We had limited obviously the books back then. And so you know, it did I believe that it is right. So that was like what I tend to refer to as like the vintage nowadays. Yeah, like washing i was i was when i first reverted It was like late 80s. Oh, wow. Yeah.
It actually took me four years to find this them I should mention, I mean, like, I actually read the Quran when I was 16. But it took me about four years to actually find practicing Muslims, you could actually give me proper knowledge about Islam. So it was really, really hard back then really, really hard to find this lamb. As much as I tried, like, I honestly knocked a lot of doors but Panama like, but I believe Allah Subhana Allah did that to me, because he just knew that I'm the type that needs to fight for what I want to get.
Like putting into that towards that path. I really do believe it's just I needed that challenge to to rise for it, you know.
But then, like later on, I mean, the thing is that, you know, because of hamdulillah I did believe so deeply that Islam was the Absolute Truth and, you know, knowing that this life, you know, is a test
And Allahu Allah is going to question us about how he spent his life. It basically came down to, you know, like, I wanted to meet Allahu taala, in a state of having done my best. And, and so, you know, for me, you know, the people that, like, you know, I wanted to find those people who I felt, were kind of like in the forefront of practicing their Deen and the ones that I could find all of them had certain things in common and those things were, for example, memorizing the Quran, having, you know, like, knowledge of the religion and so I knew this is the path I need to take, that's basically, um, what got me on that path, you know, so like, almost straightaway after embracing
them, you know, I started memorizing the Quran straightaway. When I say memorizing the Quran we talking about like, memorizing casiotone in like three weeks, you know,
salt on a nose. Yeah, I know, Arabic is not your native language. And I, for those who are not raised from a young age to have that background, that's quite taking in and of itself. back then. One way or the other weren't the resources that are available now. They weren't like online put on classes or the app videos and all that.
I had to memorize from the transliteration that was my only option. So you know, they had those those old translations, but they had to ration so I used to, like write it out. And, you know, write out the transliteration, right, the meaning underneath and that was how I used to memorize the Quran back in those days. Yeah, hamdulillah.
Yeah. So, yeah, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt. Please do continue. It's okay. No, I was gonna say and, um, so what happened was, like, after I
Alhamdulillah, Allah subhanaw taala, you know, blessed me with a very good husband, and how do they allow you to know, it's rare to find these days?
Anyway, but like, the thing was, again, like, it all comes down to wanting to, you know, try to find that environment that's going to inspire me to learn how to be, you know, the, you know, to go the right way in Islam. Um, so that's what made us think to, you know, migrate to Saudi Arabia.
You know, obviously, you're thinking hard to be slam and all that. So, um, and I really wanted to study the dean like I really want to study the dean deeply. This I mean, this was early 90s them Oh, yeah, this is early 90s now
so at hamdulillah like what happened was Subhanallah we we thought you know, Allah Hold on, I just, I don't know opened up for us to think during chef Allah Danny Rahim, Allah when he was still alive. And so we rang him up to ask him who would who would be best for us to be ready for going to della because my husband got a job, but hamdulillah je de Okay, so you know, who could who would be good for us to be in a company in Good luck, we wouldn't want to waste time trying to find people, it's very difficult, you know, going to that unknown place for site. So he told us about one of his good friends, his names, his name was, you know, Chef Mohammed, Abdul Wahab al Banna Malala some people
may have heard of me, this was like, a very elderly, like scholar, very elderly scholar, he's passed away now. Um, so Alhamdulillah from that, you know, I was really blessed to know his family and Subhan Allah, Allah, Allahu Allah opened a lot of doors to me, through their family, actually, but they were a really huge inspiration for me, like, what I loved about their family was the balance of, of, you know, that one will test the mean, like, they were very, you know, practicing their religion, but they were very into education as well. And, you know, the daughters, many of them had gone on and studied shehryar like the older, you know, the granddaughters were memorizing the whole
Koran by the time they're 12. So, it was really inspiring, you know, and in 100, a lot of hair came out of, you know, knowing them Panama. Yeah.
So then I do recall on it be mentioned on on your Facebook profile, actually, that, you know, you weren't hoping to enter into some University, but that wasn't possible. I know that you that you met this family that you were able to, to be around people of knowledge and so on.
Well, what what did you think of that? So the inability to you know, be entered into an Islamic University in the way that I mean back in the day, right, that's when a lot of foreign students were going but they were primarily male, I mean, my own father was who Medina university so what are your thoughts on that from back then when you first face that challenge, and now when you upon it and and the change and how you think that
Either affected you or opportunities for other woman in terms of Islamic knowledge and education because obviously there isn't necessarily a dearth of scholarship certainly there. That scholarship is there, it's a it's just a matter of accessing it right and availability, but the whole phenomenon of Islamic universities and Saudi in particular, and the way that they took in so many foreign students, especially from the west, right, that in turn, gave
it created a wave of, of Islamic awareness and knowledge that can be said about you know, the results of those of that past pattern of education that people who came out of it and the timing of it obviously, there's a lot of history and baggage attached to it as well. But, um, for myself when I was growing up, you know, I always felt like oh, yeah, I'm totally gonna go to Medina and I'm gonna go study Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, you find out like, no, you're
I was so upset.
so angry.
The women's section probably coming to us.
Right, and like, every few years, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Many other things. But
not unless you're married.
was like literally sitting on your lap. Mm hmm. So like, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so look like book by the only place I had heard of that had a to intake for women was Omer Cora in Makkah. Right. And I actually did have the opportunity to meet one American revert, Mashallah, who had studied there and done her degree there. So, they were there was a time where they were taking
some foreign students but really, really limited. Like, there's much more opportunity for Saudi women like my friends who are Saudi, they've all gone. They've all gone on, like martial arts America, like that family. I was mentioning before, like, for example, some of their granddaughters have got PhDs nakida you know, Masters in in our feeder like, so that there's plenty of opportunity for the, you know, Saudi women to study.
also graduated from there, but yeah, Mm hmm. So like, that was the promise I try to I apply to, you know, study at Nomura. But there was just so much red tape. It was incredible. Like,
anyway, it's also going to do it organization over there. Like, it's not really, you know, maybe one day inshallah you know,
so, yeah, anyway, so the point is, what happened was obvious, I was really disappointed because I really, really want to study there. And hamdulillah but then, you know, this family of all my various you know, they, they, they were all studying at Darryl, who died in judo, which is, you know, grand College in Judah. So they said to me, this is a really, like, they really recommend is a really, you know, amazing Quran school, very strong curriculum, very strong teachers. So, you know, basically, I didn't do that as a first preference. But I realized that book at the end of the day, if you want the deen, you've got to get that base and to get the base, you've got to go through the
Quran and Arabic If you want to proper face in Islam, you have to go through the door of both Quran and Arabic, right so so that's why I you know, entered that Quran school I began in those deserts when I mentioned to there was no English classes in that school at that time, so I didn't Yeah, only hours with all the Arabic sisters. So I basically immersed myself in the Arabic classroom. And I began memorizing the Quran by Panama when I first started there, I actually was, you know, memorizing from my transliteration, still, because I wasn't good enough to memorize from the Arabic scripts been handed up, because the amount the sheer amounts of Quran were expected to, you know,
read and also memorize every single day. I just got so familiar, familiarized, you know, with the Arabic script that I was able to, you know, handle and take that step and go into the, you know, the Arabic memorizing from the Arabic.
So that that's, that's, you know, I spend my time there. I did, I had it I just want mentioned too, that I had already, you know, studied Ted's reading Australia, so that also helped me you know, make those connections when I was studying to teach reading Arabic because you know, surely No, you did what you needed. Yeah, you've already you already know in English. So when you hear Arabic, you can start to make those connections that really helps you to to develop your language as well. And so while through that school, you know, hamdulillah heard about like Shoko Kadima, you've probably heard of Yancey, you know my teacher, Mashallah I know a lot about her. And, you know, she's an
American revert. And at that time, she had just finished her memorization of the whole Quran. So
Obviously MC for me, you know being a river and being you know a sister like, you know her Calabar, my mother pantalla protect her being Alon was very inspiring for me, like I thought like, you know, I really, you know, hope that I can you know, inshallah reach, you know her level inshallah in memorizing the Quran as well. And, and also
to Panama, I actually was the neighbor. And she was my one of my friends that I used to visit often Her name is Chieko rehab. She's actually the wife of chef even, amen. Sweet. Okay, she just did a few doors down for me and she was really scholarly, even 19 years of age. She's extremely scholarly, like, she finished like memorizing the Quran in like nine months, she'd already gone straight into the pure arts, like she'd already got, like, a number of them already, like, very finished the 10 I'm not sure but I you know, she was really advanced. And so Bob Colossi ended up, you know, going on marrying shamans suedes. Paul, I believe that, you know, because of her, she called her back.
She's really, like, very rare. And that's very good. Yeah, it really is. And I just want to throw in a note for the for the listeners, I'm sure. I mean, its weight is considered one of the world's most prominent scholar in the sciences of pigweed.
And she has a claim, as well has produced an English, a series of books on sidaoui for English speakers for English language. And it's really, really well laid out. I started from that book A while ago. And it is a huge resource. And it's really amazing, because these are often fields. I mean, when we talk about female scholarship, and I'm guilty of this, too, there's a lot of focus on So, right. And the reason is that on the other hand, I'm very passionate about those issues. But it's certainly worth noting, for myself and others that female scholarship, not only has it existed from the classical ages of Islamic scholarship, whether in the fields of Hades, or silk or
otherwise, but in caught on as well. And when I've been in Egypt for some time, as well, I was really surprised to learn that women are very deeply involved in the sciences of Quran, whether it's eat or karate, and you know that, and there are so many women who are very deeply immersed and in the science and I find personally unfortunately, in the West, we really don't have this sense of connection to the field of Koran in terms of woman being involved in women being exposed to it and having it normalized as something that like yeah, of course, you know, girls and women are going to memorize the Quran and they're going to delve into the sciences and they're going to become really
amazing reciters and teachers of the Quran itself and this is something like I said, fortunately, we lacked this hugely in the West. And I don't know where exactly this cultural baggage came from this idea that it's not as important for girls to memorize, put onto the Learn the home, teach the Quran, but it has impacted us very deeply sad to saying and so we find a lot of Muslim girls today don't have that encouragement, and they are very distinct from the Koran and they do they'll put on something that like oh men memorize the Quran. Men recite for on men are the ones who you know, lead the community in prayer and how are we? C'mon, all the other salaat and so it's important for them
to know it's okay for them to know. But it's not something that is seen as really a kind of kind of feel that it's okay and normal and encouraged for girls to take part in. And really, really sad. Yeah, like Subhan Allah one of the things that really inspired me because when I was studying at the Quran school assigned four days a week, and we had to pray mahalo together. And if you hear these sisters, you know, need the prayer. Like the caliber of their recitation is just another level like I even I've met sisters who had memorized the Quran in Australia, and you know, they've been with the Quran, but this was another caliber along alberic, like, amazing, like, ability in recitation.
And like when I saw them, I was like, subpoena like, I really like, it's very inspiring. I was like, I really want to try to reach that level. You know what I'm trying to say? So, I know it does make a huge difference. Yeah, it's really about being able to experience that spiritual connection to the Quran. In the living flesh. I know for myself, when I first
started learning,
not just memorization and to read, of course,
but I had a couple of female teachers and this was when I was in my teens and I'm just being able to sit with a woman who had memorized the Quran who was teaching upon who recited it in such a beautiful, perfect way.
Then for unreal for me in ways that hearing it recited by a man did not necessarily do. And it really is and the man rush of its own, and I feel many attributes to our spiritual development as believing woman to set your heroes on, recited in a woman's voice. And it's a really, really personal connection to pray behind a woman reciting out loud is something that it really touches you at the core of your heart. And I remember to when I first prayed, Tara, we are in Jamaica with a group of girls and queens of all places. And they themselves I think we're visiting from Turkey.
The girls who would let us and follow us also Egyptian. And her recitation just shook me and like, literally, that night was the night that I decided, like, sometime in my life, I want to be able to spend my Ramadan prays that I'll be behind. Because the man rush from that was so incredible, it was just so amazing. tunnel.
Well, that's actually one of the reasons why, with a lot of his speeches I gave, when I got asked to give speeches at events,
I actually try to incorporate recitation of the Quran, like in the beginning of the speech, because I wanted to show sisters that the Quran is for us to, um, and, you know, to show them the love, you know, to give that love of the Quran, you know, we really need to feel that it's not just like, for only for men to, to embrace that it's, it's for us, you know, this is part of the reason why I've always tried to, you know, incorporate that,
you know, sort of partial path that love down in short, as much as I can, you know, inshallah,
and break the stereotypes, like you said, Because unfortunately, a lot of families do have that idea that, like, let's teach our boys the Quran that we don't bother teaching our girls like that, that that has happened a lot of families. Yeah, very sad to know that you brought up, you know, the issue of
you giving public speeches and talks and so on bringing the recitation of the Quran to it.
Let's talk a little bit more about that. I'm really curious to know, when do you first give it? When did you first start giving these public talks and speeches? What was the reaction to having somebody like you educating and taking on the role of the teacher, and you don't only speak to female only audiences? Correct? When I say, you know, with those speeches, I was talking about that that was an all female, you know, in both environments, like, for example, like, we were in Australia, you know, we used to have a lot of what we still do, but we had a lot of Dina's female only dinners. Okay. And, you know, we have events for females only. And, and so I'd always be asked, you know, to, you
know, recite the plan in the beginning. Yeah. So that was, you know, and then I give maybe a speech after that, or something like that. So that's been going on for absolutely years, I kind of remember when I first started doing that. But that's more, that's probably more when referring to like, when I be in front of a mixed audience, like, I wouldn't just start, you know,
the brothers as well. It's just something I wouldn't do. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.
And, and so as you spent more time, getting involved in dalla p, here are some of your experiences and your reflections on that, whether there were positive ones or challenging ones.
But there's always been challenges, there's always been challenges.
But Alhamdulillah I have been very blessed. You know, 100 ala, like, we have got a really good chef here, shift of the salon, Zod.
He's been very, he's like, you know, will always be like a mentor for me. He's always encouraged me, and he's always, you know, made space for me. And so, you know, we started out we used to have he, you know, we had we had in the summer here. So, you know, used to give lessons in that massala? Mm hmm.
You know, like, there has been challenges, it's hard to go into, I have to really have a good thing about that question. But, um, but there has been, there's always going to be challenges. I think, for anyone who doubts, there's always going to challenge us anyway. But some, you know, you do that. I won't say to you that there haven't been times where I felt that from, you know, certain individuals that, you know, female Tao is not as important as male dour, like, you know, an example of that is it's a very common thing, which, which was 100 sad to see a big change in where, you know, we'd have all these events.
You know, only only, you know, male Misha, for example, or watts. And they haven't invited any female, even they're giving a sister's session, but there's no sister invited to even
You know, come and motivate the sisters. And I really feel this is a big mistake that's been made. Because, to me it's a, it's a, it's a lack of foresight, because, you know, your daughters, your next generation are really in a state of great confusion right now. And the thing, what they really need are some solid female role models, and you're not providing that for them. And, you know, without that, you know, you know, and then you wondering why they're all going Australia, why they all having these doubts, you know, like,
something to be said about a woman speaking to women's experiences, I was younger, um, I would always get really annoyed and irritated. And I would see books, you know, the role of the Muslim woman or, you know, statements about motherhood white, but coming from men, I'm like, do they know what it's like to be a woman or a mother or a wife? I don't think so. And it would really irritate me, because it still does it, it really gets on my nerves, because I know that there are plenty of women capable of speaking on these topics. Problem is on the, but oftentimes a very real lived experience of what it's like to be a woman. And it's different in reality than it is, in theory,
it's very easy to say, Oh, this and theory, and that, in theory are based on cultural norms and ideas. And that was a frustration that I had with a lot of, you know, the vintage 90s our books cater to women that were all written, right? Hmm, there are real things that have a need for a woman and this, that and the other that I found very interesting. And having access to woman and Tao woman who were pursuing Islamic knowledge, and so on, and so forth. Like that definitely made a huge difference in how I viewed a lot of Islamic issues that I was able to
overcome certain struggles that I had, you know, and I find that more and more, we see that today, where there are a lot of girls who are actually kind of tired of being told how to be the ideal Muslim woman from somebody who is not a woman to begin with, you know what I mean?
I think, like, I know what you're talking about, but I do think we have to be balanced to like, I believe there are a lot of people who wrote those books, they had the best of intentions, you know, like they were trying to guide and so, you know, they're trying their best. I mean, so.
Um,
you know, so, I mean, obviously, it's gonna it's gonna be different when when you have a female sharing her experiences and how she overcomes obstacles, you know, because you know, as you said, you can only one who can actually know what it's like to be a female he's a female herself, basically.
So I also want to bring up to is that I only found you on Facebook relatively recently, I don't even know for years so but something that I've always been very
passionate about it seeing female scholarship and be represented, but in particularly to see an AVI doing so because it's so rare to find that like one of my frustrations again, I've so many frustrations on this topic.
To
me,
I would always see
female teachers being represented from like the Sufi groups, and I don't have anything against them, obviously. I know a lot of them. But you know, there's something about like, Okay, how come those who are more quote unquote Salafi we don't have women in the car, we're like our own woman who are
I don't want to be strong enough or brave enough but are willing to exist in the public space for my very much Western race. So yeah, how many from a like I get the whole you know, the the religious arguments for a woman should being you know, modest and sudden the other I wouldn't call myself My mom was in a fog. But for myself, I've never seen that niqab mean to me to be completely erased from the public sphere, and especially had a female teacher and how is somebody like me who's generally grew up in like a very tiny community? How am I supposed to find out about other female scholars, and you're not out there? You know,
I'm the law I'm, you know, really grateful that I can access somebody like you, which wouldn't have been possible. I don't know. 10 years ago, even, you know, a struggle to find Muslim women studying the deen, who are regularly who are not afraid to exist in the public sphere. So I, I was really excited when I came across like your Facebook profile and found out about your background and listen to some of the clips that you've shared. Even just your written Facebook posts like it makes a difference.
Access and to see the representation of female scholarship and female students of knowledge. Yeah, and I don't
You're in Australia, Australia's, you know, infamous for having like, serious issues with racism in particular. And, yeah. So well, what are your experiences and being a public female figure in the pub within an Islamophobic? non Muslim society, as well as it was it as within the Muslim community for vastly differing reasons. But yeah, we just want to comment on something you mentioned, the first of all, and that is, I'll be honest with you, 10 years ago, I wouldn't have done what I'm doing now. Like, I was younger, and I didn't feel like I felt, you know, like, because of our concept of hate, and stuff like that. I didn't feel right, kind of really putting myself out there
in front of brothers, just knowing how a lot of them are gonna be honest, because I know even on Facebook, no, then I'm a married woman and my age and everything, you still get strange men inboxing, you and my sweet you know, I'm so like, years ago, like the beginning years ago, a chef he had asked me to kind of give a talk, you know, in front of a mixed audience at one of their, at one of their events. But at that stage, I did not feel ready. I didn't feel right doing it. But, um, I think what happened was, you know, my kids have all grown up now. And I've kind of reached this age where I feel
I've, you know, it's like, a feeling like, okay, I'll just do it basically, is, I felt like Alhamdulillah, Allah hautala, you know, has made me successful in bringing up my children to be on the sofa was the pain. And then I felt like now I had to turn my attention to the oma, you know what I mean, I can't just bring up my own kids, I want to help the woman now. So it's kind of like, it's sort of you get to a certain age where you feel like you want to help others. It's not just about your family anymore. And because I feel like more like I'm coming from a motherly type of place. Yeah, I feel I don't feel wrong about it, you know, what I'm trying to say, like,
you know, people see me as a more of a maternal to a mature, a mature figure, kind of in the community. So I feel quite comfortable with that, you know, it's different when I was younger, I wouldn't, I don't think I could have done it.
So that's what made me that's what made me move this way. And also, I could just see the dire need for, like I said, Before, I just could see the dire need for having some,
it just the situation's sisters are in, I thought I really need to get out of my head, I have to break out of my comfort zone. And I have to, I have to start reaching out and being and being gay, most of my sisters, and you can see my introductory, you've probably read official read my introductory, you know, post into my page, which I've lifted up there since I actually joined Facebook 2016
I've only been on it for two years. Okay. But that was one of the main reasons I just realized, like, if my sisters are having problems in my community, you know, what about, like, Australia is, you know, is a very huge country. And, you know, we're very blessed in Sydney, but you know, other places in Australia, it's very remote, they don't really have a lot of access to knowledge, like what what we do, you know, so and then you've got people over the other side of the world that they don't have access to misshape either. So that's one of the reasons why I, I decided that I need to break out of my comfort zone and be a little bit more visual, I think we need to have we need to
change the narratives, you know, that's basically what it's about. So I think
I do these, you know, and, you know, is really appreciated, like I said, from myself, and I'm quite privileged in the sense that I do have a lot of access to different resources and knowledge. And, you know, just just as a teacher, and I know other people who are teachers, but it's so matters on a very personal level, to be able to see a woman who is involved and who is ready to help but who is ready to speak on issues that are relevant. And so that need is, as you said, it's so present and it's so dire because we have such a dearth of accessible female teachers. Because I know that Mashallah we have hidden gems everywhere, right? We do tiny communities, in big cities, whatever it
may be. There's always who are, you know, Mashallah, in their circles, who have a great impact, who are doing a lot of great work, but remove the need for a much more visible accessible figure as you have
taken on the role of 100 a DA Hmm, I'm
not sure though.
What advice and encouragement do you have for Muslim women who are seeking to learn more about the deen?
Well, my best the best knowledge I can give you is, first of all, number one, to have a class, you know, to have your classes is the most important thing because Allahu taala opens up for a class like he doesn't open for anything else. No, like, if you look at that Hadith from the prophets that Allah has done and when he said may UDT lab will be here. Hi, Ron, you suck Quixote Dean. Wherever Allah wants the good for them, allow given the comprehension or understanding of the religion, right. So no matter what your obstacles are,
If you are really sincere for the sake of Allah hota, Allah, Allahu taala will open up the doors for you, no matter what your circumstances. That's what I really believe.
You know, like for myself, like, I had wanted to get that authentic knowledge, right, I wanted to study shehryar but it's upon Allah Allahu Allah holds out open up the door for Quran for me first and I was reflecting on this and thinking to myself Subhan Allah, if I have done Sharia in makura there's a good chance I might not have put so much attention on to Quran you know, and I always think about this that saying from chef, even if I am right, Malawi says that a local Allahu Allah abdon Baba, he cannot he Illa Allah who that day in Varanasi, he like he says, like, a love of Allah does not close the door for a purse for a servant by his wisdom, except that he opens up for him two
doors by His mercy to Panama. So, for me, the way I reflect upon this is, you know, as I said, If I had just done the shitty at omokoroa, I may never have really pursued that path of going on, which has been an amazing blessing in my life, like at hamdulillah through the quote on mean formula is Allah I was able to actually raise my children to also memorize the Koran. And also, you know, handle I've been teaching the Quran for how many years as well. So to me, this is a huge blessing, which you can't even you it's just indescribable, you know? So
that's one thing, and then
you know, so go back to what the question, so to have a class, and then have the determination, don't give up, don't give up, you've got to keep going. Like I went through so many obstacles, you know, to seek knowledge, but you just got to keep on going and don't lose your dream. And you know, now, you know, now we've got so many classes available, like which we did not have in the past. And the other thing as you know, like the Internet has been such a huge blessing for sisters like it's broken down so many barriers for us, like, like, what like reason, when I left? When I left Judah, I had finished my third level of techy, so I only have one more level to go and I would have finished
and I was thinking to myself, how am I ever going to complete that? You know, that those poor internet days, you know, yeah, how am I ever going to complete that like, you know, and then suppiler more what happened was that, you know, hunger, we got the internet and then I found out that shuffle Kadima was study, she was teaching, like, she's, she was taking Kron joined, I joined up the class and, you know, studying with her and some other teachers for quite a few years, and I ended up getting my job and I'd read through that. And even even when it comes to send acknowledge, like, you know, hamdulillah like, when I came back to Australia, like I started studying
Arabic because like I told you, I knew that that was a base. So I kept up my memorization of the Quran, I keep going with it, and I kept learning my Arabic because I knew that, you know, if you if you really want the, to know the deen deeply, it's the only way, you know, because Arabic is the key to knowing the deen deeply. Right. And for me, I did not want anyone in between me and the original sources. Like I wanted to go back to the sources. I didn't want anyone interpreting to me, what is the dean, I want to know? What is this Dean from that? I learned that? Right? Yeah, you can't do that. Arabic, it makes such a huge difference. Like I'm not fluent in Arabic.
And so I'm so frustrated. So often when I'm seeking original sources, when I'm looking for, you know, certain quotes, or I want
to share different scholars say that and in what context and you don't have to go through somebody else who has the time to do the research for me in Arabic, and then who has the time to translate for me and that has the time to answer follow up questions. That is a huge, painful process in and of itself. It's dependent on, you know, the goodwill of people who will tolerate you harassing them constantly about something. So yeah, definitely, I can. Yeah, the importance of that direct accesses cannot be understated. Yeah, so I mean, so I was still, I stayed the Sorry, I started Arabic part time was at the university here. And surprisingly, we had a better curriculum for Arabic then you do
overseas, like it's very hard to find classes that a structure that goes to a higher level, like where is he with, we've got a very huge Arabic population. So when I went to the unit, he always been in classes with, you know, Jordanian, Lebanese, you know, they'd all done like a nine, up to a nine in their country, and they'd come to Australia and so I'll handle it That was really beneficial because we had a proper Arabic teacher that would speak only Arabic in the classroom. Okay, so that I found that the curriculum was better in Australia then than anything that was offered, you know, basically in Saudi Arabia.
So obviously if you went to uni, but like I said that doors shot, and and I started, you know, I Another thing I did once the internet sort of popped up, I started drilling for tower. That was what I basically started out with reading lots and lots of foot tower like I basically, you know, you know you had the same q&a. Yeah, I used to basically just all I would do is every new factor that would come out, read it, read it, read it, so that Yeah, yeah, you know, those are then. Yeah, exactly. And then. And then one of them was one time I saw like one of the answers that Sheikh Mohammed menaggio had given
about, if you want to get firmly grounded in your deen, what can you do? You know, people always asking that question. Right. So that's when I saw him give the advice about an academy Ls lamea mF two half, which is located I started studying over about 10 years ago, and that's those are limmat that were, you know, running those programs. Like they're all based in real life. They're all from Jamie. Jamie, actually, man. Mm hmm. So I started studying with that, you know, and doing more
and more tuning in Mia. Like I said, you know, studying that. Yeah. So it's like, detailed explanations of Islamic texts of knowledge. Mm hmm. And so that's what I started basing myself doing that. So like, what I'm trying to show you is how in the past, I would have to travel
to get that knowledge but and handed it out through the internet. Allahu Allah has opened up so many doors for us. But that's why I say this is because if you want to gain knowledge, really try your best to focus on your, your Quran in Arabic, first, depending on what your level of knowledge if you want to just normal knowledge for you and your family, then I say go study it, for example, is static online, unique, you know, that's enough for you if you want to study just for you and your family. But if you want to take your knowledge to a higher level, you cannot, there's no shortcut, you have to go through the Quran, and the Arabic And once you get that, it opens up all the doors to
everything else. That's what I can basically say to you that time and investment long term, yes, you have to be patient, like people are impatient. Now, they just want to, they think that they can just, you know, jump over that those stages of urban crime, which I which take a long time. But you know, when you put that effort in, you go much, much further, much, much further than what you're going to do. If you just, you know, any staining, make sure you stay in your, your, your native language for Yeah.
And finally, for the very last question, I know, I've taken up a lot of your time, but you know, what's Okay, a lot to share with? Um, what do you think are some of the most serious and severe issues facing Muslim woman today?
Okay, so, I don't know if you have already heard my recent talk that I gave at one of the universities here, I just recently, okay, so, so that's about I gave a talk on does Islam oppress women. And one of the main points I've brought up in that, and it's one of my biggest concerns is the way that many men in our community have, unfortunately, a warped sense of male entitlement. Um, where they, they think, you know, just because Allahu Allah gave him the, you know, has given them that right of, you know, you know, a lot of Allah. Yeah. You know, lpwan I like a lot Allah, He says Lt. jadwal, Pomona, Allah Nisa, so they read the beginning of the AR, but they're not reading to the
end of the AR, right. So this, this concept makes them think that they're free to treat their wife, however, they like without accountability. That's the problem. And they're not reading to the end of the AR wildernesses in La Ilaha Cana allegan Kabira. So a lot of data in the end of the verse is showing us that, you know, a lot of that is above them, like, just because, you know, you've got this role of being, you know, the maintainer and protector and Allah puts you, you know, given you this wife in your care to lucasta you don't, you're not, you know, you're not an uncapped, you know, not not an accountable for, you know, how much, you know, you can't just deal with her without
accountability. Right? Right. What's unfortunately happening, we find that, you know, there's just so many cases of, you know, men, emotionally abusing their wives and physically even abusing their wives like it, it's really sad to say, but like, you know, I'm not even a psychologist. I'm not even a counselor, but, you know, on average, every single week, I get,
I'm telling you, I get at least one or even two sisters contact me in a domestic violence situation. You know, yeah. So, like, that's the thing. So these men are feeling like they can just do whatever they like with their wife without any accountability whatsoever. And not realizing that, you know, as even your mama had said about this verse, that Allahu Allah is the Wali of that oppressed woman and he will take vengeance against the one who oppresses her and abuses her rights to Panama. So they're not they're not you know, if that were there at all, like that's not even taught you
Most men, when they're taught this, this idea, or when they hear this is just like, I, this is, this gives me open season to be however I want however I want, and I'm just doing so. Yes. So I've discussed that in that video, if you can have a one on one lesson to discuss that, and I've discussed about like some of the some of the points I really feel we need to pay attention to as a community, all of us, it's, it's, it's something we have to all be working towards.
And obviously, you know, the other problem, which I've also discussed in that is the problem of, you know, the woman coming, she's been abused, she goes to the chef, and then unfortunately, to me, sisters are being let down. Yeah. But
I don't want I want to put into perspective, there are some really good machines out there who really do everything that martial arts broke a lot, like they go out of their way above and beyond help these sisters, but there are still too many others who, you know, these systems are coming to them, and they've got so many, you know, such evidence of abuse, like it's so clean, and it's the old thing of, you know, just be patient sending it back into this really, it could be in a dangerous situation and sending a straight back into that, and that is so concerning, you know,
so. So that's, that's one of my biggest concerns. But besides that, you know, with with sisters in particular, like, if they have lack of knowledge, if they have lack of self esteem, then I believe that they are the two main things that cause sisters to get taken advantage of. And, yeah, and that's why myself, I'm very passionate about empowering sisters through knowledge, you know, and teaching, teaching them their rights. And that's, that's one of the main reasons that made me feel like I've got to get that platform on Facebook, you know, so that I can be they they needed, you know, they need some advice about their situation, you know, that inshallah can help try to help
them, you know, guide them in a situation and Sharla. Because, you know, otherwise, they're just basically, you know, very much on their own. And like I said, That, to me realizes they get taken advantage. Exactly. And I think that it's, it's so harmful, because this is a common thing that I hear from literally every female teacher, that I know of me, and I know that
a lot of people obviously have legitimate issues with the whole issue of like ideological feminism, and so on and so forth. I'm not even going to argue about
it, of our Muslim community. I always said and I firmly believe that the number one reason that we find so many Muslim woman, either distancing themselves from Islam or turning towards feminism is precisely because we have not been taught our rights are held by those who are in a position to basically have that authority and implemented.
We have been outright denied our rights. I know a woman who, you know, even when they they themselves know, yes, I have the right to put up for example, but I just divorce on her own right. It's not a call and be like, Yo, I'm divorcing here. Right? So those individuals who are supposed to be the ones who are advocates for women, the ones who are given the authority and positions of influence, or some communities, who should be the ones that a woman can go to and say, This is my situation, I need forgetting. Right? There's all this the moment, right? Like that's almost non existent. Most Muslim women don't know that. An actual legitimate thing in Islam, where they don't
have to give up their manhood, because you issued so many given them in the first place. Yeah. So then when do you want to leave a marriage, they're told, oh, you have to return your money. And they're like, but I wasn't given one.
And there's no way out, you know, please, that it's the ways unfortunately, that the dean is twisted by those who have, again, power and influence, and who are supposed to be the ones who are advocating for when upholding our rights or not. So and it's that that drive so many women away from Assam, especially those who have feel and who don't know and don't have access to for this knowledge, and they genuinely feel like you know what, Islam as a religion that has no place for me that doesn't care about my safety in my room. That's exactly what I've discussed in that talk. In sha Allah, like, as I said, it's called does Islam oppress women? That's exactly what I've spoken
about in that talk, is this precise thing that, you know, if we're really concerned about keeping our sisters from,
you know, like, this is a huge thing on a put on our sisters a man, you know, it's already they're shaking their amen due to what they've gone through in their marriage. And then when they come to that figure of authority that they were looking for, you know, to support them, and they're not given that support that they really needed. I mean, this is what can really send a sister over the edge, you know, and we have to take responsibility for this.
You know, because this is a feeling to let down. And I know we're sisters have had that situation where at Honda dealer like, they've gone through that terrible situation and they've even been turned away by one particular ship. But then they've gone to another one. And he's supported her. I'm telling you, that was the thing that she said kept her any slam, if it wasn't for that, of course, after a while keeping her firm, she would have gone because it just was, she just felt so that the lack of sports support was just, you know, incredible to her, you know, so. But that's what I've actually spoken about in this recent talk. And a lot I've really tried to discuss this because
we really have to, we can't just be
sharing the link to that talk as well and following up.
So people who are interested in hearing this talk, it will be made available through the same Chawla post that I share the podcast on
Android that I think we have reached our time, I have taken up a great deal of your own time does that live here? Thank you so much for sharing your story for sharing your experiences for answering these questions. It's been truly not just enlightening, but refreshing to hear your journey not only as somebody who's studied recently, but somebody who's been on this path for a really long time. So you've been around the block, you don't have the old square. And now you're you're part of the I don't say like the current generation, but you are present and you are accessible and you understand what's going on, you're not disconnected from you know, the issues that women and girls face today
or forget just women and girls, but all Muslims, you know,
in this day and age who again have access to the internet and so many other
both the benefits and the drawbacks of that particular platform, such as Dr. Hayden, thank you so much for your time. barkcloth I really appreciate you inviting me to to have a word with you and chalon Melis pantalla su inshallah. Amira Baraka la siki. Thank you.