History of Gracie Machado family – Jiu-jitsu (Renzo,Ralph,JeanJacques, Rickson) #893
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and we got the legend in the studio. How you doing Helios uneca Salama Lanka.
Shala Alright, for the audience, you know you always hear me saying that he said peace be with you. How you been? I'm good. How about you? Good, good, good. 100 So a lot to talk about what I wanted to talk about here is I wanted to start off with you know, a little bit of the history you know for you started actually training also jujitsu, right some Yeah. Now you know, he's been he's been actually training since he was seven years old. He's kind of a hidden gem, many people you know, he don't he don't really
his history is out there. But we not in HD format.
High quality. So tell us a little bit much as to how you're coming in from Brazil, right? Yeah, I was in Brazil, Bolivia, two months in Brazil in two months United States in Louisville, Kentucky. Now you spend some time in Abu Dhabi, right? Yes.
Nine, beginner 96 Yeah. So for all the people who are out there you know who training Jiu Jitsu. Now when you say Helios uneca Many of the people from Old School New school they you know you competed a lot you came up from even before when they have many people know Carlos Gracie, JR. He's you had the Gracie Baja. You are actually one of the ones founders of that. Is that correct? Yes, I am. Yeah. Wow. Tell us about that. Yeah, I started we have a small group was me. How for Gracie her back to go here go do.
Hansel Grace's jacket, my shadow and his brothers was on instructors. He can cause Mashad And also joining my SHODAN and
I forgot to
order my shadow name. Anyway, that's the waste we started the name discord Scooby grace that time club Gracie. Yes. So this is before it was coined. Gracie Baja. Yes. Club, Gracie. Okay. You mentioned some holes. Holes Gracie was was Was he around at the time? No hos Grace was in Copacabana. Like Cosma Shani Higa. Mashad used to be a host Grace students. Yeah. And the damn. When hos Gracie pass away, they become a college Gracie Jr. Students. And we It stood in the front of my shadows, brothers. Yeah. Any of these names ring a bell? I'm so very new to new generation. See, that's why this is important. Healio for the new guys coming up. They got to know this stuff. Yeah,
these are these are like some of the roots of a lot of the jujitsu coming from from Helios. And you see, some of the teachers that I learned from he was their teacher, like Marcia Fritos, right? Yes. You taught actually Marcio Victoza? Yes. Yeah. Little B him Flavel me the Flavio made up to his kids because I used to teach for the kids. So they were kids at that time. Yeah, yeah. So how did you get in jujitsu
statue for seven years old. I used to fight avoidance a lot in school. Like guys, old guys used to kick my butt too. They're, they're my my uncle brought me to the gym to learn sheets.
And okay, so let's go let's start from that beginning. Okay, so your uncle brings you into where what was who was teaching that was a schooling in terrace obvious. Two hours from Rio de Janeiro seed is in the mountains. And I was a student from Leah's Martines Jenny Hey, Bill in the city like it was the best kids school in the world at that time. They are learning from that and we are 14 years old and went to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to invented the cubic race. So now who's there now it's club Gracie at that. Yes, this is in Rio de Janeiro. Rio de Janeiro. bajada joke who's the who's there given instruction? Their college my shadow and hygge my shot. Carlos Machado and he got
Michelle. Yes. Okay. And so they're teaching the classes at Club Gracie. Yeah, and my trainee path was cancer. Great. How for Gracie Jackie my shadow joining my shadow go ahead do so they're also there now. Yeah. Okay. Are they they're your same age or older.
Jack in the hands a little bit older.
Go to how fi moralized my age. You probably have you heard of muchachos
Okay, I'll say some names just to bring them up. You've heard of probably Eddie Bravo. Yeah. So that they and Joe Rogan. So they're under I think I believe Eddie Bravo is Alicia Jack my shot John Jacques Machado. Right. So but John Jack wasn't there. Jack was there was a student like us, or he was a student like us. So the
Because of Carlo Hagen and the older brothers yes okay so he's now if you can imagine that wow this is like the hill that their cartilage left to first after hygge their jejak become or structure or main structure so now he can he can was competing a lot, right? Yeah at that time yes he was like amazing yeah yeah I know he can we we've had him here in Chicago he's come we've spent some time together. So he was he was very actually he statue if there could be Grace today by her grace competition CIM was his idea it was his idea. Yeah, nobody likes to compete at that time. Cows Gracie strat, like a competition the Higa change the mind. Yeah. So then what happened? Okay, so now
you're there. Carlos Machado. How many Machado is is five brothers five abroad five brothers. Right. So now they left he Where did he go? Where did he come to United States? Oh, they came to United States. So he he didn't come first then after college? Is that when he can went to now he went to Hollywood? Yes.
It's a Hollywood superstar. He did he get if you're watching? Yes. 100 a day. Another hot spicy. Yeah.
I remember Hagen first time I met him was in Brazil. And he came with Mike Michael doodle cough was it done from the American Ninja? This actor? Yes. And he was he was brought him to the Gracie camp. We had the Gracie camp there and Brazil. And he came that's the first time I met Hagen. Yeah. Okay, so going back now so you have so they leave. They both go to America. Carlos Carlos Machado also. Yes. So now John jocks now he's there. running the program, the Gracie club. Club, Gracie. Okay. And then Hanzo and how henzel Health what they're they're also teaching or are They're straining their training? Okay, so then what has changed a little bit too? Yeah. How about like Hickson and boiler
where were they? Their wedding? Is the Muy Thai is like another town. There is another Grace Academy another line? I shall we are from Carlos Grace linage Hicks. Oh, and the highlight from Helio Grace Linus. Okay, so how long now is John jocks they're teaching a
couple years a couple years because before he come to knighted states when I when I was able to give him my purple my brow there he left are you guys around the same age? You're He's older than you? Yeah, three years old. 10 years older. Okay, but he started training before you I don't think so more or less the same time but he was much better than me. Yeah.
So so then what what happens from there? I remember when I when I went there at the Academy when I used to train there in Brazil. You had the gym you go up into the building and had a gym on one floor the net then the academy on the tassel? Yes. When did you guys move into there
and then they had the Tasmanian devil there Yeah. Before it was at the house is like in the same street was a little before a little be like in the beginning the street was there. The gym was just a house or the house they used to rent them there the guy from the gym like it was the name is passive without invited us to go there then went there with our students to the to the gym to the gym. So what's his is it still Gracie club Gracie? Dad is to club big race becoming Gracie Baja. No, I believe you know it's become a Baja grace. When a friend His name is Ron Powell. His nickname the biggie had the house was one of the best street fighter from the gym was the best blue belt at that
time. He came with his minor devil t shirt from his wrestling gym. There we have idea you went to flake flick was a
t shirt the comb shorts company
like surfer boy shorts, no surfboard shorts, I don't know how to say and then they are us to the guy to put that logo on the triangle and to put you through be grace. And the guy said to be grace does not sound nice. Why don't you put your Gracie Baja oh yes nice. Everybody starts like you know they're there has a gray stone look you cannot put your grace bar because have a great Smita from oil. Then you put your Baja Grace there we made the that time
200 a sweatshirt 200 t shirt I don't remember the numbers is that they you sold everything in one or two weeks.
them they're there they're the brand Stach everybody like everybody like that sample and and sometimes people say oh look you cannot put it the Tasmanian devil because this is the word gonna sue you anyway then but he did and become very popular there that's become the name Grace Baja grace and should they Gracie Baja? So it was flipped. So it was Baja Gracie today's Gracie Baja or yes it was by Grace then became a Gracie Baja It was bought Baja just bajada de zuca Yes that Tao in Brazilian real a little town in real yeah you ever been to Brazil? Never had the chance I didn't go yeah he was funny because used to be a couple boys toffee boys there'll be grace and used to fight a
lot in there in the street and everybody from the neighborhood instead fight against us. They joined the gym to to don't get to the butt kick them they learned jujitsu and is becoming a champion that building that I would go train at
did you guys now once you got the Tasmanian devil the shirts you know with the triangle the Tasmanian did you guys move over there? Yes Now you're in this facility you were there for a long time right long time yeah henzel still there and yes hell health all of them were still still training there. No, it's you know nobody's dead anymore. No no more but I'm we're talking about before that time. Yes. At that time. Yeah. Probably if you buy the left from Gracie Baja Oh by Gracie. I left 25th
Sixth 18 years ago probably guys left it 15 years ago I don't know exact but so how did it go from there? How big was the was the team? How many people at that time when you change the name over? Was it a big group training there was a lot of guys was not the very big like is now but was the best quality group? Yeah, like just to off any technical guys named what some of the guys that we see this picture often you know the picture where the Yeah, the big picture? Yes. Was also aka Draco. Liano go to go Gu Nina SRAM be
Lucia No, a lot of guys. Um, I don't remember everybody's name Masuku is was that dream team?
So then for the generation that I knew that now started to to who I met there
in Brazil, was Professor Marcia Victoza. So then what how did he himself put you? When did they start coming in to the picture? Around what?
masu pewpewpew they grew up they become very good very technical. Like a good blue belts. Good purple. Good brown with a black.
I think they they started shopping in the beginners nine. It's uh huh. So then this is how for how many years after you you guys made the name? Baja, Gracie, how many years later until they start training? You?
Maybe the problem the joy and wonder why screwby Grace there three years after three years after the enjoy one was already by grace. I don't know where I don't know exact was a Hanzo and health were they fighting? At that time? Yes. They start fighting MMA. They start fighting MMA fight to the death time relative Oh, yeah. We're in Brazil, or did they come over to the zoo and United States? Yeah. Did they have a strong, strong valid judo team that at that time are we just just just jiu jitsu and we trended over MMA a little valley today in the gym. Like the reason the reason Gracie Baja is a Gracie Baja because of Hanson the Alfa grace. They and also they're my shadows brothers.
They are they're the reason everybody went to training with the Gracie Baja
in the cubic race that time no, yeah. So then when did they end up? When did John jocks end up? Leaving that he ended up? He was there when it's Gracie Baja, or Baja, Gracie. So when did he go off to open up his own school when he moved to United States so he left also. Yeah, how much after that? Did you leave to go to the United States? Oh, I
just left United States.
18 years ago, 18 years ago, 2000 to 19 years ago. So then who took over my gym? There in Gracie Baja, Gracie. I never
I was a red with my gym when I left. I was not the church inside of the gym. So are you have you heard of this name? Gracie Baja? Yeah. So this is where
where he started and actually he made the some great history here because he was many people here. You know, Carlos Gracie Jr. and the Gracie family. But some of the people who are behind much of the history don't get to hear much about so I was a lot of this stuff was new to me. So it's very interesting. Yeah, hearing this. Yeah. I have a question. You said at one point, I think you were referring to us, Gracie. He didn't want to do the competition. College grace. How's great to join you. He never liked competition. Then after he started like a competition, so why didn't he like the competition? Because the trophy guys don't pay the bills.
Yeah. So then, how long from from there? I mean, how do you when you go so it's officially that main school where I was where I was going where you were, they had this team is no more Hmm. It's no more No more. No more. I think they move.
They move on. They move the that school is still in Brazil somewhere. But they move. They move. It's not the building? I don't know. I just know the building. But it's still it's still there. And Baja says yes to him behind that. Yeah. They have a lot of association everywhere. Yeah. So yes, they strongly CIM you know, yeah. So with me when I went there for the first time. Then I hooked up with Carlos Gracie, Jr. with
with Marcio Feitosa, I was going to the Gracie camp. That's why I said he can was there the one time I met
henslowe Was there Nelson Montero all the you know, it would be amazing because you'd go up there and train and I'll never forget. Because it was, you know, hot outside, but then you go up upstairs, they had the fans and the GI you'd be soaked. You know, the GI would be all wet. It's like you carrying an extra now 5060 pounds, just all the sweat. And you know, then you seal. The first time I was there. I was a I went as a blue belt. And just to be with all the different black belts, World Champions. It was amazing. Amazing experience. Yeah. Yeah. So that was some some some great memories. I remember. Yeah. And then from there, I actually I became the first American rep. For for
the Gracie Baja, you know, here in the in America, because they didn't have a rep at that time. And that's when they started to expand, you know, on go get bigger and bigger. And yeah, so that was very, very, very interesting. Very
interesting times who were some of the most
influential people in your life from how's the grace hens? Oh, Gracie. Yeah, I was my idle hands. Oh, it's my Guada Angel. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you you beat them to it, actually, because you beat him on the show. Before he was we had a date set up everything. He was here. He's been here to
our academy. He's visited. And we had a show set up. He just got busy. But you came on before him. So hopefully, next Yeah. His health also he's very, very nice. People. People you know, get the sometimes you see health, you know, very aggressive and always fight but he's you ha big hearts. Right. wonderful person. Yeah. Very nice and humble. Yeah. When you get to know Him and meet him. Yeah. You also you got to How about their brother who passed away? Were you close with him? Oh, yeah. He is my
is my my passion. My love.
We shot we still fight a lot against each other. But I love him. Yeah. So to alive for me.
We also henzel was the biggest inspiration for you, huh? Yes. Yeah. Today Today I try act like your hands agrees. Yeah. But I cannot I don't have it. This semi charisma. Yeah. Have you heard of this name? henzel. Enzo. Yeah. So these are some of the
then you have Hickson Did you just think about your thinking? Oh, go ahead. Yeah.
Did you get a chance to meet Hickson? Oh, yes. Bunch times. Very nice guy. Very polite. Yeah. Amazing fighter.
Now it was
It's interesting to learn that you yourself I mean, you were fighting in what weight division one 129 went 25 129 I don't remember Zack and you're the one of the only guys that actually fought at your weight division as a big jump I mean you know absolute and then you want from blue belt purple all the way to Black Belt tell us about Black Hat took a second place but one Yeah, I did some. I like fight against big boys. I used to like Yeah.
Like I always I, I like challenging myself. Yeah. Then went to delta phi doping class. It's no compromise if and when I'm a hero. If I lose, I'm not just a small guy. Yeah.
Hoo. Hoo. From from when you were used to compete at that time? Was it?
Were you competing like weekly or monthly or regularly? You were defense was not like probably was like five tournaments a year? Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. Because here now you got like, every weekend every, every weekend, how was it back then with the tournament was like
each two months, maybe three months? Depends. And the two stronger tournaments. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. So who are the you're probably what would you say one of the most active like who Hagen was very active with the competitions that time Yes. Who was Who else who were some of the most active and was here was Jacques was has everybody from the gym all my training partners. We start with a lot but that the diamond Castle Gracie gym was the strongest gym
in the world. No. Carlson Gracie Yakko senior. Yes. Kasam Grace's scores. Yeah. Grace and Grace Academy. They had the strongest team that was how many teams were there you had all bunch gyms like over 400 chimps 200. But how what was the source always went back to because you have the two lines you have Carlos Gracie Sr, Helio Gracie. So all these other schools have a dat however the father liners to was the guys from the Brazilians who boops is stronger guy so good with ankle locks. Yeah, very flexible guys. Today's Dan O'Neill. Tell us about who are they the Novi on Northern yo and the GF CIM they added from the Father line ish for the Whose Line is linear. Father, Father, monster
father, who's another guy learned issue sheets besides the Gracie family. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Who did he learn from? He learned from from the same guy.
I don't know. They used to be very well, but I believe the semi Japanese guy changed for him. I never you don't hear? Yeah, I never heard this. So you had another also was teaching jujitsu? Yes. Okay. Yeah. But he cheated for suburbs. suburb like okay, yeah. I got a question for you. What do you think today about the combat jujitsu where you can like strike the face and everything
is nice. I always was like this. Yes, always like this. But it's different. Like
if you're gonna fight a punch in the face or kick, you don't need to have rules. You need to fight like your fight in the street.
Like MMA, right? MMA is just a game you cannot kick the guy face. It puts the hand in the floor. That's that's become a sport, too. So you're fighting a valid? Yes, I'm for
how we call in Brazil. These are Nutella.
Nutella, the chocolate there.
Were you were you around when I've heard Hickson talk about you know, many of the stories are at that time. You see the fights on the puppy beach, you know when he smacked the one guy and we will do that? Yeah. Were you there? Yes. You were there. Yes. Tell us what happened. Yeah. So you're a first hand account. You were at the beach when this happened? was amazing. Tell us tell us what. Oh man who has a fight everywhere. Was fun. Yeah. Who was this guy? This guy was from loot. Olivia very tough guy. very honorable room. Honorable Mayor. Yeah. And
he used to be our enemy like his
style started be strong in Brazil. Then they thought they were the best was like a jujitsu but the NoGi them, then start the problem is like a champion.
Get gyms that fight against each other.
And what was the what? For the people that don't know about this situation? What was the end result? What happened? The BJJ won
the Brazilian jujitsu war. He was much bigger than Hickson, right? Yes. That's there was not a competition for Hickson No, the Nixon took him down. Yeah. Is Yeah. And then he mounted Yeah, but they were the guy who was with him. It was you knew today was a very tough guy. Which one? The black guy it was genitalia he fought to he fought against the house. He fought against oil. He fought against the first sheets against the first issue. The first value dude he fought anyone he beat the jujitsu guy he beat the hand up you think he was tough guy to do is that he was like a shorter stocky guy yeah that's tough amazing. Is that where they had the
in the stadium and then the fight everything exploded know that the one who was hands against him that's when henzel fun yeah but the hands was control him all the time but in the end the house got a little bit tired but was well the ring is supposed to fall was bad the the ring was not very something we had had with the ring support before but there was there were quite a few people were you there at this fight? Yes Yeah, it was everywhere. Wow. Was it I was the data what our problem is happy that there was at that one it was like right it was a riot. Riot riot like if the outside of the ring it spilled over to outside and PDF are fighting Yes. Yeah. And then what happened? I mean,
I should send me people people some people's bash me kick me. Then they come the police and finish for the for the ancient old question gi verse Nogi. You see a lot of when people come to you and ask you like, a lot of times, people maybe they don't want to train with the GI they have this statue of Fergie. Take a minimum of two years, two or three years we forget to have to take the gear off and then start to train an ogee and if someone you're gonna ask then you were saying that you like Muy Thai as well. Yeah, like my tire like my tire like a box. I like all kinds of martial art. I think we need to learn it based from everything. But as you see, it's my mentor. Yeah, it's my Legion.
Now the question that I have is what if you have someone who was over here like a striker? And you know, they love more time and they'll say the more time is the best martial art? It's okay his choice. I like it. I like the gray color. I don't mind if you like the black Yeah, it's everybody you know, is the most important aspect. Your wish and you had SPECT my wish? Yeah, that's that is true. Now you did say that you started when you were seven years old so and it was just kind of like what was available at the time for you. So now that you've been training here for over 40 plus years
you say that present jujitsu is like your favorite is the best like people should definitely go there like if someone were to ask you you definitely like in on the side of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so like what would you what would you tell someone if they wanted to hear why was in jiu jitsu is better than the other martial because you prove to the world we kick everybody's butt in the world to prove sheets was the best matter what in the world? I don't know if you remember how I say grace he spank everybody and show she's the best match out in the world. If you don't do sheets you are the dead is like if you are a tiger is you either lie on one sided the Shark Tank you cannot survive
so you were there that time and not Now my question is a lot of people say that the that was fake that it was like some kind of like thing that they they ran so that they can get people to come and train the martial art so you were there like what do you think they they thought was fake because nobody saw a guy with 130 35 pounds controlled guys with 300 pounds so ease and make the guys
that you know give you up you know that's look if used to look fake but everybody who's knows you sheets, who is try sheets this me like an example today you have a lot more Thai guys like professional Moita like the best in the world.
Like this year or this year, or this center like the New Zealand guy, the word the UFC world champion. He's a purple belt in jujitsu because you know if it does not know jujitsu, he cannot sue
wife, he but his, his men, men fighters, his
his his, um, white tie guy. You know what I mean? But he knew he needed jujitsu. Yeah, I don't need another martial arts to fight. But the more I tie boxing, wrestling,
karate they needed us to fight. I don't need
Yeah, yeah, just just going off that it's uh, you know, there will be always those ancient old debates, like if you put karate up against kung fu or boxing up against this art, and it was a lot of theories. But then what the, what they did the Gracie this was a beautiful thing is now they said Come let's try you know so they had the challenge matches and then it all the way led up to the to the UFC. So then it will up to there and you used to see all the different styles you know put in there and the thing was everyone was trained standing up, but then it just natural that you're going to clinch you can just like two boxers you get two boxers, how many times the referee has to split
them up because they always just naturally grabbing each other. Yeah, and that's where you know, like high school fights always go to the ground always goes to the ground. Yeah. And that's when like, then you're in in the water. Yeah, they're not a swim. Yeah. So I always say it's the one stop shop. You know if you want to learn the most effective, most proven most effective martial art. Then I say this is the Gracie Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
I agree. Yeah, I didn't believe in Brazilian jujitsu before I got into it. But then when I first did it, I got humbled.
We both know the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu we Brazilians we kick the world but we spank everybody to prove associates was the best match our
if you was if it was not as the Brazilian Americans is to believe Hebrew city was true. So Bruce Lee, what do you know about we see
everybody thought kung fu as their the man think. And it's not okay. I see what you mean. Like his whole, like G KUNDO. But Bruce Lee.
Just in closing before we conclude, in some of his in some of his literature, you can see him he was thinking already on the ground. You know what I mean? He was evolving. What I did you he was a smart guy. No. Yeah. So he knew that, you know, that's the reason he's the legend. Yeah. Thank you very much for sharing this history with us. That much of the world hopefully now. We got it in HD, you know. So some people who are from the, the Gordo's the health stencils and their students and others, they can kind of start and the muchachos students people can look to this, you know, and they can see some of that the roots, you know, their teachers and
some of the history that so it's not forgotten. Okay. Thank you for sharing that with you guys. And thank you guys, we'll see you next time Peace be with you a salami