Chai Chat on Faith, Masculinity, Mental Health and Community
Channel: Navaid Aziz
File Size: 83.76MB
Love my overheat and Hamdulillah I have the arginine or some Allah who said the melodica there will be no more hungry than water early he will so I'm here to marine and my God. My dear brothers and sisters Salam alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
JazakAllah femme to all of you for joining us tonight in this important conversation around mental health, community, faith and masculinity hamdulillah we're very privileged and honored to have our guests today, Sheikh Omar Patel from the land of Ontario. So, for those of you that don't know him, if you want to take a guess where is our shift ethnically from?
Bangladesh? Okay, but guess not America, South America. Interesting. Good guesses. India. Okay, good guess.
Tanzania? That's random. I don't know how what is this an interesting Yes. Good. Pakistan. Good. Yes. Good gelato. That's very specific. So our ship ethnic leaders from Fiji is ethnically from Fiji. Mashallah. So he was raised in Canada, and we're going to start off the conversation with him. So what makes the ship very unique is that not only has he completed his religious studies, but a master's in pastoral care, and now runs this amazing organization called Canadian Muslim counseling. So let's start off with his story says, firstly, what inspired you to do your religious studies? And what was the
I'd like for you
snow or you can walk want to leave or go to an eco salon for coming out. And I pray and hope that this is a beneficial gathering and shot a lot will be strictly sold to us will determine the signing of call Cody. What
the question inspired when it inspired me. Yeah, but as far as
I was in grade five, I believe. And in grade five I was in a Muslim school Islamic school. And my teacher walked in and he was teaching us Quran but he began to speak to a delegation from Egypt in Arabic.
I was like, well, chef knows Arabic. For me, it was a great five students. It just it blew my mind. And so after class, I went to him and asked him, I said, How did you learn Arabic? He said, I went to study Islam. I learned Arabic along the way. And I said, Well, can I do that too? He said, Of course you can. And so after school, I would sit with him, and he would teach me what he would need to do. And fast forward, I got into a lot of trouble when I was young. And I knew that if I went to high school, I would have caused more trouble.
And I was I was just that I was that kid. And so the handler for the level of self awareness. But what happened was I had applied to a few different high schools that were not truly my home schools. But we're better high schools because I want to stay out of that trouble.
Fast forward, summer was coming to an end. And there was a month or so opening up about an hour away from my house in Bowmanville, Ontario. And my uncle and aunt came from Buffalo, New York. And they took me in they said, let's go check out the mother. So you'll be able to learn Arabic there. And that's your dream that you want to do. And so we just went on this go for it. So we got there, This place hasn't opened up. There's probably 300
acres of land with 14 buildings. Jim was swimming pool and you're entering grade nine you think this is this is going to be the best camp of my life. And so I enrolled and fast forward three years, we weren't the Muslim community wasn't able to make payments on the on the land. So they lost a Mother Teresa.
I applied for a visa to go to a Jamia in a unit Islamic University in Blackburn UK, which
was an amazing experience. And I studied there FIP, also the FIP ID, and my visa expired there. And so the British Home Office was just causing a lot of difficulties and challenges we weren't able to renew.
And so then the option opened up to go to South Africa. And it's a seven year program. So for the final year of the program, a few of us that we're studying in England transition to South Africa. And we ended up in South Africa for a failure of Hadith studies at Delta Hadith. When we came back to Toronto, I was I was I was knocking on doors at University of Toronto. I said can I teach here?
Of course teach at U of T Why not for sure. And they said no.
Problem. Again. I was young, I was naive. I said okay, so can I study here? And they said, Well, you need to do a bachelor's and I said, Well, I already have my bachelor's from South Africa. Yeah. And there was one program that just opened up. And it was at a Christian college within the university, run by the United Church of Canada. And they opened up a Muslim stream. It was a Muslim stream for the master of pastoral studies and psychotherapy. And they said, We're taking students that have been traditionally trained in Islamic studies into our program. And I said, that's my calling. So what can what can you get from this program this chaplaincy?
What's chaplain? What is was Muslim chaplains even mean? This time this was probably 2013.
And so there were many Muslim chaplains that I was acquainted with. And so chaplaincy for me at that time was the vocation or the calling that led me on the path that I've been on for the past 10 years. And that is spiritual care for the Muslim community. Basically, exactly what shifting does,
taking care of the spiritual needs of the Muslim community without being an imam.
You could be a spiritual care provider in a secular space like a hospital, a prison University perhaps. And so that was my calling. I recognize that mashallah the children come to the masjid the elders come to the masjid. But we have this demographic of individuals aged 18 to 24 that don't frequent the masjid as much as they should. And so how can we take the environment of the masjid or the ethos of the masjid to the university campus and
So that happens is your university chaplaincy? hamdulillah in two years, I completed the program. And alongside that with the Toronto center of psychotherapy,
did a diploma in psychotherapy studies as well. And that was my educational journey. My summer safe. So for just for my knowledge, which city in South Africa, were you in? Johannesburg? Johannesburg, Okay, nice. Mashallah, at one point, it was like the murder capital of the world, then that's pretty crazy. I remember visiting. And they're like two things. Number one, this number of capital in the world. And number two, we don't call traffic lights, traffic lights, we call them robust.
It's like all the titles you go where traffic light, it was very, very make it the robot. Yeah, make alright.
So just for the introduction to you. So as I mentioned, tonight's theme is around mental health, faith, community and masculinity. And I want to jump straight into that. Firstly, let's speak around the stigma around mental health in the community. Right? If someone breaks their arm, going to the hospital getting a cast, no one's ever ashamed of that. But unfortunately, there's still a stigma in the community that if you tell someone that yeah, I'm speaking to a counselor, I'm speaking to a psychologist, or speaking to a therapist, all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, my God, like what's wrong with you? And we have this really like knee jerk reaction. So I want to speak to you about this from
two sides. Number one, can you speak to the stigma in the community and what we can do to eradicate it? And then even more specifically, mental health, and men? Like for many seem that there's an even greater stigma around that? How do we work around that inshallah? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Mashallah, definitely a loaded question. All right, mental health and men the stigma around mental health in general. And I think Subhanallah mental health challenges need to be recognized as they were prevalent at the time of possible loss or loss. Right. So it's a part of our tradition. If we were to say that Sahaba went through mental health challenges.
The recognition is definitely that Sahaba went through it and the prophets Allah was no one cared for that.
So is it new for us to deal with sadness or grief or depression or anxiety or bullying? Perhaps not? Right? The Sahaba was one light I already was right. I love you please, with them all. Definitely went through their own mental health struggles and challenges.
Is there any reason that we cannot? Of course not. There were there were this habit of celestial spenders, the messenger of allah sallallahu Sallam he to himself spent an entire year known as island prison, or the year of sorrow, the year of grief. Wherein what happened during that year? Anyone know?
His uncle passed away. Yes. What else happened? Honey, Java, yo, tada. And he also passed away, right? So there's grief, there's definitely grief. And when a person goes through a level of grief or separation from their loved ones, they feel sad. And so in Sierra in the life of the prophet SOS, and then there was known as his entire year, because
there's also instances with Sahaba, a youngster coming to the prophets, Allah or do you send them? He says, Yeah, well, Sula. give me permission to commit Zina. Right, to commit fornication. And what also less Eliza versus come closer.
So this is a spiritual counseling session, right? This is exactly what would happen today. Somebody comes and knocks on my door at the university and says, chef,
I have needs, you know what I mean? I need to, I need to fulfill my needs. So I was also going to come closer. And he says,
would you like for someone to do this with your mother?
Your sister know your daughter? No.
So now this would be considered Socratic questioning within the cognitive behavioral therapy framework that was less also going to perform this 1400 plus years ago.
But this would be considered today, in modern language, a mental health issue that I'm going through a challenge or a difficulty and I can deal with it myself. I need to go to someone who has experienced so I can bounce ideas off of them. Talk therapy is exactly what psychotherapy is. Right? And so the recognition that we need to seek appropriate help when we're going through something is not there's nothing wrong with it. Right? If, if it's the highlight can come to Missoula to talk about this. Endless less awesome lab does it rebuke him? They didn't reject him? Didn't shame him. Did it make him feel guilty, but he spoke
with him, and he engaged him after he embraced him. And then he empowered him by placing his hand his blessing had upon the chest of the youngster and he made dua for him. Right? So these challenges that youngsters or men or boys face, right are not to be shaped. And they're there to be empowered by. And so the recognition is that we all face things, or depression is no different than diabetes, that if I'm going through something internal, or my blood sugar, sugar level is low or high. There's there are also challenges within
the levels of
neurons, right? Or just feelings of sadness or depression, that affects me. And so I would definitely need to seek help.
I hope that answers a little bit of the question. But what are your thoughts? I'd love to hear you. So I think those are great preliminary thoughts. And in all openness and frankness, I think this is the level of where we all reach out that this happened at the time of crisis. This is what he needs. This is what he did. This is what we need more of. But as a community, what are we doing to eradicate the stigma, right? So I think it's right now that the conversation is very, very important. But I'm looking more along the lines of like, why are we not actively campaigning? Right? If you look at, you know, we're having a conversation in the car, with regards to suicidality in our
communities, and the shame that comes with that, and no one wants to talk about that. We talked about substance abuse, substance dependence, even addiction. No one wants to talk about that. And I think a lot of these issues that are so important to our community, because the haunting us, but at the same time, I don't feel like we're doing enough, right. So basically, I'm putting the world's pressure on your shoulders and Schiff. CMC needs to step up its game and start providing more campaigning, but no pressure. So I think that's the thought where I met, that, you know, in a position of leadership, you always carry the burden of your community on and it's really
disheartening to see all the challenges that everyone faces, and we're just not doing enough. So not to say that it's a failure, but we're progressing at a rate that's too slow. And you know, health is in Greenwich, so I'm really glad that CMC is here. And providing online services in Shell I'm hoping in person services in Calgary as well. And I'm going to take this opportunity to get a plug in tomorrow, we actually have mental health first response with shift. So that's going to be at the downtown Masjid at 2pm. I'm hoping all the brothers and sisters will take time out of their day to go and attend. Because this will be about if you're going through a crisis yourself or you know,
someone going through a crisis, what are the steps that you can take to help them?
So remember that tomorrow 2pm the downtime. Now let's get back to this conversation at hand. The stigma around men and masculinity, you know, something that's gotten thrown around a lot? Is this topic of masculinity. Right? So can you just share some thoughts around masculinity? And what did masculinity at the time of deposit sell and look like? And where do we go as a community navigating this conversation around masculinity and Shama?
of masculinity in the time of the Prophet, so love artisanal versus masculinity today, I think when we see the term masculinity, now it is, is synonymous with Andrew Tate. Right, let's just let's take names because I think a lot of the young people here, boys and girls, brothers and sisters definitely hear, you know, masculinity being toxic. And toxic is just another word for poisonous at the time of the Prophet Muhammad. So Lavinia said, masculinity, Allah subhanaw taala mentions in the Quran fi region, right? You have Boehner and you have to huddle right there. Allah subhanaw taala literally says that within the OMA there are men. Like there's men, right? There's men What does
manhood mean? What does meant being a man mean in Islam, you had born out of love, they love to purify themselves before they came to the masjid. Right? They were clean, they took care of themselves, or they had a level of respect for places of worship.
I believe this was in relation to the people that were staying outside of Medina and Jacoba correct. And we're going to mash it up. And so it was a lesson for the Sahaba that we're living closer to mesh had never we that learn lessons from the men of hooba who purify themselves and then enter the Masjid. You also do the same. Alright, so, recognition and realization that manhood Allah subhanaw taala talks about in the Quran. That's number one. Number two is
This is not the only place he talks about it he says Eddie jaal but one island Nisa regional Awapuni Island, he said that men are what's a one? How do we translate a wine without offending anyone? The truth is our means responsible for right takes care of now in according to according to some individuals and their version of toxic masculinity, when you say a man is responsible for a woman, well that's toxic masculinity, right? But in accordance to the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad SAW said Allah, the Prophet Muhammad Allah Salam would take care of financially, emotionally,
physically, spiritually, the needs of women, his women folk, and this was the Prophetic practice it was LaSalle, Salah and for my understanding, right, Kava is, if your wife is going through something or your mother or your sister is how can I provide a level of support? If they're not going through something? How can I be there for them and provide a level of support, whether emotionally physically, psychologically present, manhood is gentleness, manhood is softness, manhood or masculinity is the recognition that I am not weak, but I have the ability to be vulnerable. manhood and masculinity is the recognition that there were Sahaba that were wrestling and the mastery level
also less allowed, he said of them. And they felt a little bit of heat when was less loss and then walked in.
Yeah, and they didn't know if they should continue wrestling or not. And this is when there was less a low salary says, Lazar shady to Bisola write that the strong one is not the one who can can throw you down.
Or who can defeat you. Rather, in Nimisha did a lady yam liquid NAFSA Wendell Hubba, like the strong one is the one that can contain themselves when they're angry. Emily kanessa, al Malik bin nefs, the person who can contain and control their neffs that's a strong person. Now.
is known in Arabic as alien wouldn't neffs the science of the neffs. So a person that can do a yam lick naps for medical miracle naps that can contain their naps can contain themselves, psychologically speaking, but also contain their soul. So what does that mean? Your lowest self generally is the one that takes you towards
what changed on watch from you.
Your your lowest self says swear, your lowest self says when you get cut off, flip a finger. Your lowest self says, when you're being challenged by someone that you don't like then raise your voice against them. Your lowest self mandates that when you're feeling isolated or lonely, you don't praise a law, you'd rather watch inappropriate things. Your lowest self mandates that
you don't really care for relationships.
And you are inclined towards harmful addictions as coping mechanisms. That's what your lowest self says. Now, the Messenger of Allah, so Allah says, In Nimisha deed, the strong person, the person that can contain their neffs when they're angry, and he says anger and anger with the recognition that anger is a secondary emotion. Right? Anger isn't a primary emotion. I'm usually or not all usually I'm always angry because of something. And I'm angry because I got into a car accident and that losing my car made me upset. Now I'm angry because I'm upset. Anger is a secondary emotion. I'm angry because he or she swore at me. But they're swearing at me was disrespectful. I'm angry because
I felt disrespected. Does that make sense? So the recognition that Yummly NAFSA containing your lowest self, that is what ru doula is, or manhood is. And that's inclusive of chivalry, right? Women say chivalry is dead. He doesn't open the door for me anymore. It doesn't take care of my needs anymore. doesn't listen to me anymore. It doesn't empathize with me anymore.
So recognition that chivalry, oral jeweler,
or photo was also a prophetic concept, and the concept within the smell. So to take one extreme and say, Well, this is what manhood looks like. Without ridiculing or criticizing womanhood or femininity or sisterhood can be done. We don't have to take one extreme and criticize the other. We can take one extreme and complement it with the beauty and the love of
The gentleness or the calmness or whatever else, let's also let's say, in relation to his camel.
He said that there are women seated upon it. And he spoke to the camel, if I'm not mistaken, he said, Take care as there's
beauty and brittleness upon you. And I've gone over it with Campbell our
I was trying to translate it
great. So let's get straight to the point is there a crisis in masculinity in 100% 100%? It's not because of it's not because of the Muslim community. I think it's in the wider community, right us living here and Katherine's in the West. There's an attack on men. There's an attack on men. We're emasculating. We're becoming emasculated and women are becoming men.
Quite literally, nowadays, men are becoming women and women are becoming men. And there's attack on there's an attack on manhood that attack on chivalry. Right? And we have to reclaim this narrative that a man is a man is a man and a woman is a woman is a woman. A man is masculine, and that doesn't mean that he is vengeful, US hurtful, he is rude. Rather, he's loving, he's caring, he is gentle, right? As I mentioned, today will look out and let you not say that which is off like silk, will call them out of us say that which is good and kind. Gulu colons, a leader, when you speak, make sure that leaves no room for ambiguity. So the recognition is that this is a modular, this is
And a woman is a woman as a woman that she is loving, she is gentle, she is kind in her
way, in her gentle way. And a woman doesn't need to be masculine and a man doesn't need to be a man escalated. And so we need to recognize it and be aware of it so that we can counter it.
Of course, the Muslim community is facing the challenges.
And how do we combat it? We need to raise men having conversations as such, definitely. The recognition that men go to the masjid. So we leave home every single day recognizing that I have to have a relationship with the Masjid. Again. Women do not have to go to the masjid. Right. Men have to go to the machine. It's a pledge of upon us No.
Yeah. No. Depends on the situation. But we have a higher regard for the masjid than the mission has a higher regard for men, for sure. That's manhood.
It's also a part of a one.
So shaping what I'm going to take away from your analysis over here is the following point. When we discuss topics like masculinity, it's always important to look at the source of your definition. If you're gonna look at masculinity, and you know equated with Andrew Tate, and others like him, you're setting yourself up for failure. 100%, right. So our standard for masculinity is meant to be the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So when a man of God Mahabis he comes to the process, and he's like, jasola, what are you doing? Because I was kissing on passing another scene at that time. And he says, I have 10 children. I never kissed any of them in my life. Right? That's what he said.
Because in his mind, a masculine man will not kiss his children. That's not what men do. And then the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he tells us that whoever does not show mercy will not be shown mercy. So the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was the ideal role model. And that's what we need to keep in mind. Like this modern day term of masculinity is a it's a stigmatized term, and it's a very loaded term, depending on who you're talking to. They may not understand. But for men, the ideal role model is always the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So when we're looking at what should a man look like, what should a man do? We look at the footsteps in the example of the
Prophet sallallahu, wasallam. And being a protector, protector, being a provider, being a maintainer, you know, these are things that we're meant to pride ourselves in. But I'll highlight the point is that if we're not taking care of our own mental health,
forget other people and taking care of them and providing for them and you know, sustaining them, we can sustain ourselves. So for our own mental health, in order to take care of others, we need to be taking care of ourselves first, right? You're only as strong as you yourself are. So if you cannot take care of yourself, you will not be able to take care of others. And that is how a lot of relationships break down. Because there's someone in the end in the relationship that isn't taking care of themselves. Therapists say that you can't pour from an empty cup, of course, right. And you need to ensure that your vessel is full so that you can pour into others as well. And so caring for
yourself is caring for others.
one of my teachers he mentioned, I need to do that which is meaningless. To do that, which is meaningful, right? I need to just take care of myself with meaningless thing sometimes. Right? There's a level of self care like Chef movies and his board games. Right crew and my crew here tonight. Some people will think they're meaningless. Some people are video games, some people with going for a walk or a hike, it's just I have a need to clear my mind. Or I need to have that company. But it helps me do that. And just lets me recharge my batteries so that when I go home, I'm clear. I'm okay, I've relaxed, I've toned it down, and I can pour into everyone else's vessel now
know what I mean? So for men, it's, can I leave my own five times a day to enter the masjid to just to hear Quran to be a way to get a little bit of solitude and silence to be with other brothers, and then go back to pour into everyone else's vessel?
Is that okay? So if this is a subjective opinion, you question, three important characteristics for men to have in this day and age.
Three important characteristics for men to have in this day and age.
okay, it's definitely loaded. But one of the things that I think about when I think what love is, as as as a as a father, it's when do I stop saying I love you to my sons.
Because I know that when children grow up, our parents just stopped saying, I love you. Or I heard friends saying that my parents I asked clients all the time, they say that are better seeking validation or love us and wouldn't listen to your parents stopped saying I love you. When was the last time you can recall, your parents said I love you to you.
And so changing the narrative in Rama, in mercy in love and companionship, that I need to always be loving. And I need to emanate love, whether it's love through opening the door, whether it's love through gift giving, right? There's five languages of love, acts of service and so on and so forth. So love is one. Number two is physical activity, right a characteristic of physical activity, whether it be sports, whether it be hiking, whether it be going to the gym, it's I need to
access a healthy level of physical activity. And number three, reconnecting with nature.
I think we need to guard ourselves as men get back out in nature mashallah, you guys are living in Calgary, you have no excuse. So Banff is about an hour from here this development
We're so caught up in we've become stuff Allah men have become housewives. So to say me, we don't even know how to pitch a tent anymore. Right? We don't know how to make tea or started rolling fire.
live off the land that Allah subhanaw taala created for you. That's that's manhood. They can also be womanhood, but definitely manhood. We're hunters and gatherers. That's what we are. It's in our DNA.
And so reaching back into that DNA and finding that so that we can tap into this untapped level of masculinity.
So she, we briefly spoke about a crisis of femininity as well. And what I'm trying to understand is did the crisis of masculinity
of masculinity, you know, I was looking at that I was thinking about that, as you're speaking in, you know, about purification that in the Quran, what are the verses where unless kind of data speaks about to the job. And we have the famous verse about Musa Donaire, right? So the Hopi mojado love it. Right? So trustworthiness, I think, is a huge thing. Right? And that will be like very vague, in general, intentionally trustworthy, someone gives you a secret, you keep that secret, you make an appointment and keep that appointment. You give your word and keep your word like all of that falls under trustworthiness. Number two, when I think about masculinity, is about holistic strength. So
you highlighted the physical strength. And previously you highlighted, you know, connection to the masjid, and a deep love for Allah subhanaw taala. And I think holistic strength is very, very important and they need to go hand in hand, right? That the strong person is not the one that can put others down. It's the one that can control their knifes. So holistic strength, definitely. And then last but not least, I think accountability and responsibility, right? Getting rid of blame culture, it's no one else's fault. We need to take responsibility and fix our own problems. So those are three things that I would think about where I come from, like a Quran and Hadith
So back to my question, crisis and femininity crisis and masculinity. Did they happen at the same time? Again, in your opinion? Did one happen before the other? And then is the solution to both of them the same? Like, what does that look like? Because clearly, as we keep having these discussions, there's a greater what we call gender war, where men are saying that, you know, women aren't women anymore. And women are saying that men aren't men anymore. And therefore, you know, what, we can't get married anymore? Or, you know, we can't find suitable spouses anymore, or, you know, what? A result of our problems at home or because men aren't men and women, aren't women, genuine thoughts
on that? And shall
I shall let you really bring up the heart any questions today?
When did it start? Who started
and blame women or blame men launched? No, I think with with the rise of secularism in Western liberalism, there was an attack on manhood, there's an attack on femininity, there's attack on
the recognition that women shouldn't stay at home, it's bad for a woman as a stay at home wife, it's bad if she's a homemaker. It's negative, they're looked down upon and they're frowned upon. Whereas it used to be the pride of society that was once upon a time.
Men should stay at home and should work at home men should do this and do that. And the recognition Subhanallah is that it led to so many of us losing track of where we need to go. Okay. And what I mean by that is, so many young brothers and sisters can't get married right now. Because we don't know how to find suitable spouses, primarily because we don't know how she can decide what is what like, what is a man? What is the man supposed to do for me, I can do everything myself, or what is a woman's supposed to do for me if I can do everything myself. And so the attack happened, as there's this rise to liberalism, and its mindset. And it's caused destruction, straight up destruction
within Muslim homes,
And when you do get married, it's how do I stay married?
How do I stay married with this person that I don't agree with, or this person that I don't know how to compromise with.
And I And again, it comes down to the principles of manhood, learning how to compromise, right? Learning how to compromise learning how to go through these little challenges that we face at home. But men have become so weak that we don't have the forbearance to deal with this anymore. Because I just want out there, maybe there's something better the grass is greener on the other side, with the recognition that I need to put in the work as a man, I can't give up. A man doesn't give up a man doesn't quit a man doesn't. If he fails, he gets up and he does it again. He tries harder.
Right? This is manhood.
The Prophet SAW Watson and went to war. Right?
If there was ever a failure, it was okay. How can we strategize and get back into it?
And the messenger of Allah so Allah Almighty, He will send them
would attend to the needs of the community, it's how can I tend further and further away? Or how can we take that a lot further away? Or how can we increase in what we're doing for the community? There has to definitely be this. But again, who came first and where the attack came? First? It's not my answer, I wouldn't be able to say that I haven't read too much upon this. But the recognition that there definitely is an attack and there's been an attack, and there's going to continue being an attack. And the way that we can combat this
is again, the evidence is in the Quran and Sunnah. Go back to your moods, what is my gender role? Right gender role now has become a conversation that gender roles there's such a thing in Islam. Of course there is. Of course, there's, I have to stay at home is, of course not the Messenger of Allah sauce on his wife, Khadija will be allowed to Atlanta, she worked, right. She worked
messenger muscles, and I'm here to work. Of course, he worked. But who is alive?
Her money is her money, his money is her money as well.
And so the recognition that I need to definitely search back and become acquainted with my Islamic intellectual heritage, as opposed to YouTube critics and articles and so on and so forth. Podcast and stream live streams. I need to be acquainted with my Islamic intellectual heritage. What does that mean to me? What does that look like? We've become so distant from it doesn't exist for us anymore. We're not proud of it. We're not proud of it because you don't know it. We're not we don't want to know it because
So the attack hasn't just been on Manos, and femininity has been on our culture. It's been an honor on our intellectual heritage.
It's part of what I think there's there's so much for us to do and comprehend and think about. But a lot. Yeah, I feel like if we don't make this change into raising our youngsters, as men and as women, then you know, the, what we're facing right now with, it's so difficult for individuals to get married as even harder for individuals to stay married.
We're at what like a 60% divorce rate within the Muslim community 60% divorce rate within the Muslim community?
How do we how do we deal with this?
I don't have the answers. But we need to come up with solutions together as a community. Right and how we, how we parents and how we school our children,
and how we are close with the masjid.
And now we are close with the community. I'll tell you why the challenges that we face religious consider all of us here today religious because we're all in the masjid on Friday nights, right? The challenge that religious folk face is that we want our children to get married.
But we don't know who to get married to. Because our social network has become so constricted. We don't know everyone's on their phones.
Everyone's we don't have family friends anymore. We don't have community gatherings as we should. But one thing I noticed here in Calgary, mashallah you guys are in Toronto, which is everyone's doing their own thing in their own world. And so the challenge even religious folk can't find found families to get their suitable partners. It's it's really a struggle.
Because dua that Allah subhanaw taala creates ease and openings for everyone in sha Allah. I mean, so I'm gonna transition a little bit, and let's speak about sin.
Deposits, I'm 30 tells us that all of us I want to sin at one point, and the best of us are those of us that repent. But I want to address this from two fronts. Now. Number one, the I guess, you know, can we call it an epidemic of pornography in the community? And you know, those that struggle with it? What can we do to help them? Again, how do we even raise awareness about such a sensitive topic in the community? And then number two, we'll take it a step further haram relationships, right? We have boys and girls, men and women, high school, university, they want to do the right thing, but they were biologically created to be in a relationship and it's tough navigating through that. So
tips and advice that you have for both scenarios, inshallah.
pornography addiction is real, not just for brothers, this is for sisters, as well. And we've been dealing with a lot of cases of pornography addiction within our clinic and Canadian Muslim counseling for quite some time, where we've had to hire professional addiction counselors for them.
The challenge is,
there are two types of ways that we can combat this, right? There's a harm reduction approach, right? Or there's a cold turkey approach.
The harm reduction approach is, I watch pornography every single day. And I want to quit, and I have a desire to quit. And I recognize it's wrong. And it's harmful for my body and for my mind, and for my relationship, current or future. And so it's taking a harm reduction approach is how can I cut it down from seven days a week to six days a week? Okay, I got six days a week. Okay, cut down from six days a week to five days a week. Now, the challenge is when I propose this to client, and when we create a schedule, and we go through all the technicalities of it, the challenge then becomes well, you're still allowing me to sin.
Isn't that wrong?
Know, essentially, primarily, because you've been doing this for X amount of years, you've programmed your brain, that if you were to quit cold turkey, you would just reinvest yourself back into it.
Right. And it's also important to acknowledge that
when you fail in your recovery, that is a part of your recovery. Failing in recovery isn't failure, it's recovery.
So when we go through this, I love to work with clients on a harm reduction approach, as opposed to culture. I've never seen any success within cold turkey. There's always been individuals that come back to the addiction. And so it's important for us to work at a harm reduction approach. So even if you haven't seen a therapist or you can't see a therapist or you don't want to see a therapist, it's develop a schedule for yourself to reduce it bit by bit to a point where you have your you're doing it once a month. Okay,
And you're slowly regressing, you're pushing it away.
This is also from a teaching witness now, where high Lama li ma de ma alayhi, WA, ALA, right? The best of actions are those that are done consistent, even if they are small. So I am consistently trying to get better at a slower rate
at a slower rate, because I know that this is so harmful for me, it's really causing me problems.
And I want to expel it from myself, I need to do so and Allah subhanaw taala is with me.
Number two, is work hard and strive hard to maintain with you at all times. Especially with a pornography addiction. Because of the pornography addiction, pornography is
coupled generally with masturbation. And when it is cup coupled with masturbation, a person enters into a state of Ginebra or impurity. Now, if you're focusing your goal throughout your day is to maintain the state of purity, then you're restricting yourself from entering into that state of impurity. Number three is don't allow yourself to be alone.
Don't allow yourself to be alone try to be in the presence of others. And number four is limit your engagement online. Right? A lot of brothers that I work with that have pornography addictions have given up their smartphones, right? You need to work on you to answer your emails, do it on your laptop, but don't have access to your smartphone all the time, where you access generally access pornography. And number five is attend to support group. So there are, you know, essay meetings that you can attend that aren't within the Muslim community. There's also a Muslim support group based out of the states. They are a wonderful Muslim support group, I believe out of Philadelphia,
African American brothers.
Their program is
is a 12 step program to heal from addictions. So they work with
drug abuse, they work with alcohol, and they also work with pornography. And it's a 12 step program. It's a very, it's a it's a brotherhood buddy type program. So this is what I would definitely recommend in relation to pornography. Do you remember the name of that program? What are they? How do they look it up?
We'll come back to them Sharla.
there's another program called purify your case, that's run out of California as well. And that's more on like one on one, mentorship and counseling as well. So that'd be a good thing. Something that I mean, I love the Islamic military, Islamic planning.org minute islamic.org. That's a resource that Shaco was recommending.
And the other thing I did the five points. And this is perhaps going into something more general as opposed to specific. So it's not just about taking away your cell phone. But it's also looking at what are the things that trigger you to go to it, right? So be very conscious of the behavioral patterns that you display? Like what's leading to it, what are you doing before it actually happens? And I think that'll help as well. You minimize the triggers and minimize the response as well as within a toddler. So the trigger is generally what happens with the triggers is for people that are starting out or recent or new to the addiction, yeah, right. They're triggered to do it, they do it.
But for a person who is just a daily habit every time before I go to sleep, or everyday when I wake up, it just it's habitual, there's absolutely no trigger. It's habitual, because it's an addiction that you've been suffering with for 1015 20 years. Right. So it's how do I reduce? And remove that? I just want to add that point. No, that's great. Because I can look at, and I think part of the discussion, even for parents, is what responsibility are we taking to protect our kids from that? Right? So do you have a net nanny for your model, right, to restrict the kind of content that they have access to? Are you having discussions about this at home? You know, I remember one of the very
first conversations that I had when I moved to Calgary was a father came with his son, and I thought they'd got into a fight or you know, we're going to have to do some, like reparent in the relationship. But he's like, he mops up. Can you speak to my son about the birds and the beats? And I'm like, uncle with all due respect, that's your responsibility, not mine. His response was, we don't do that in our culture. And that was a huge learning thing. And I'm like, Okay, I understand where you're coming from. You've never done this, your dad didn't do this review. So you don't know how to do it. That's perfectly fine. But at some point, you need to learn how to do it. This is the
responsibility that comes with parenthood, right? So we take ownership of that issue. So does that feel like a shake I appreciate those thoughts. Now onto the hot on the relationship. Thoughts on that they particularly in the university setting, right, like
As you get older, your biological clock kicks in and says, You know what? It's time to get married. Let's go looking in the MSA. Right?
It's one of you don't even need to joke about it. Everyone knows that's what's happening right? There were there was a joke. It wasn't Muslim Student Association like matrimonial services or something like that.
I have a really special take on this. This.
I don't know. You may not agree with me, and I'm totally okay with it. It's okay, up in the workplace, a spaceship and university campus since 2015. Okay, so my primary work is at U of T.
And I've seen a lot of students come and go and watch a lot of different cards, students. And so again, like I talked about the sport challenge that we're facing as a community and not getting married.
Haram relationships are definitely a thing. And I'm really grateful that we're even talking about it right now. Because I can't remember the last time I heard of this concept, so Hama haram, really, we don't talk about it anymore. But I felt like we talked about it when I was growing up. But you know, we haven't heard of it too much. We don't really talk about it. What is haram relationship? What does that mean? A haram relationship is wondering, the boy and the girl are in a relationship that is elicit right? Pre marriage, right. And so they're doing things they're talking, they're flirting, they're meeting when they're not supposed to, privately. And again, right, we don't know what's
happening, because they're on their phone pretty much all the time. And anytime it could be in the middle of the night, it could be in the morning, anytime today or in class, other class. And so that all constitutes how long relationship
now within the university setting between the ages of 18 to 24. That's huge. Generally when you find someone to get married, right. And if you're a part of the same institution, and you're coming to the same high Lapaz, and you're going to the same events, and you're bouncing ideas within the community off each other, then let's just say there's there's quite a bit in common. There's quite a bit in common. Now, I love the fact that we have the conversations on this, but I hate the fact that we don't have the solution. Right. The solution for me like I do a HELOC and it's just like this on campus is exactly I sit in the middle. I got the brothers on one side, we have a partition in the
middle between the brothers and the sisters and we have the sisters on the other side. Now a sister is commenting and saying something brothers listening to her. And she's probably thinking mashallah, she has two beautiful voice. I love the way that she portrayed this idea, you know, and a brother says something and sisters wondering well, who said that that really intrigued me. You know, but the brother doesn't know the sisters. The brothers they get up, they leave, they go to their cars, and they really wish they knew who it was.
how else are we supposed to find people to get married as my question
without doing in a haram or illicit way?
I don't know. Do we remove the barrier? Well, then the people or the masjid or the Muslim community are going to come after us. Right. So my thing is, allow young people to have the space to enter into a relationship without fitna while teaching them what that looks like. Without fitna meaning without any challenge of or understanding what the boundaries of a halal relationship look like. Can I speak to you without passing these ethical boundaries?
Can I speak to you while being chaperoned? Can I speak to you in the presence of your family? Can I get to know you and your family? Like, can we create Halal healthy boundaries so that people can get to know one another? Because I really think it's time you're living in villages. We don't do that anymore. Everyone knows everybody, it doesn't happen anymore, are coming to Canada having such multicultural and diverse communities, where we also see that there's a lot of intercultural and multicultural marriages taking place, but we need to know how to navigate these issues. I say I haven't done it yet. But I say open the barrier. I haven't done it personally, I haven't done it in
my community yet. I'm not saying to do it in yours. But I'm saying if we were to have a talk to the getting married,
but what happened, everyone comes learns. But then there's no practical effort in how young people are to meet other young people.
You don't have to agree with me. This is just my own opinion. And it just does that. I really appreciate that.
And that's what you're here to share is your opinion. You know, I'll share
Other words from our teachers that remind us that in our day and age, we need physical barriers, because we've uplifted the spiritual barriers. And I think if we focus on that particular component, then eventually Yes, you can create a community where we don't need the physical barriers, because everyone knows what they need to do. And everyone's accountable and responsible for themselves. But till that is the case, then barriers facilitate the task of lowering the gaze when we do can't force ourselves to do it. But with that being said, this does not mean and this is like the big, you know, conversation for another time. But the role of women in the massages and how they're treated in
Muslim organizations, right, there needs to be a created space for them because Allah had their own entrance for them. They had their own day with the prophesy salam to ask their questions. And they had to be autonomy that they needed for their time, but I'm going to save that for another conversation didn't in the heat. So I'm from an extremely traditional Muslim community as well, right, we do partition we have that this is a part of like, my upbringing. The challenge with it is that, you know, if we're taking everything back to muscle loss, we said the 10 biggest lessons learned they didn't have a partition in the masjid. Right. And those definitely fit in at that time
to go youngsters coming to ask permission to 40k. Right. So how are drinking alcohol? They're spitting out that time. There's fitna in our day and age as well. And we need to recognize that, but we also need to create healthy, reasonable alternatives. Or if not the Masjid. Can we create a third space like next door?
Right. I don't assume that there's a barrier next door. There isn't. But are we having both genders at the same time? We're never pushing events? Yeah. I mean, we try to accommodate to both genders for all of our events as much ideas off here, but I think we definitely need to create healthier alternatives. To combat 100% My only qualities I would say we start with the target component before we remove the barrier. That's the only thing I'd add to it. I agree. So chef, we're gonna go into some rapid fire and then open up the floor for questions in sha Allah. Basketball or hockey, basketball. Vince Carter, favorite player of all time.
I was gonna ask you the brawn or Jordan.
Rappers get okay. He probably did participate in the best dunk competition in his history.
Terrible basketball games in the offseason Yeah, at the ACC
I used to go every year so panel My best experience.
Okay, much appreciated.
This mic keeps dying on the man.
Shallow work the smell will find a way to make it work. Keep it with you check to look at. Okay, favorite place that you visited outside of the Halloween outside of the Halloween.
And mushy doxa
favorite place I've visited outside of Halloween our mission
was to place this malarkey places. Hawaii in Cape Town. I believe Cape Town is probably the most beautiful place on earth. Okay, explain. They will mountain of course. Yes. The ocean oceans.
The people keep Malay folk Mashallah. And the rich Islamic heritage of their and their adherence to is now a sound.
And then why Hawaii? Why Hawaii just Genma it's genuine.
It's beautiful. Hello, it's green. It's Lush.
We that's the closest thing that I can think of when it comes to Gen Ed's away.
And I'm from Fiji, so that's true. That is true. That is a big compliment for Hawaii to coffee. Coffee, coffee interesting.
Thank you so much.
We have a new batteries now. We have any boundaries now. Okay, so between coffee you said coffee
favorite non Muslim book.
The Alchemist the alchemist. Intriguing. Why?
Because that's my answer as well. Why? I why I'll answer that for sure. Inshallah. I think there's some quotes in it that are Islamically grounded that resonate a lot with me, right? The world conspires in your favor. I love that concept. Right. But obviously it's not the world. It's Allah subhanaw taala struck the deal. That this is what Allah subhanaw taala planned for you right?
His search for bottom line, right? Like that's pretty fascinating and intriguing as well. Your reasons.
I feel like it shaped my youth could really how so?
Every time I wanted to read a book, it would just be there. That would be the book that I would go to sleep with.
it's just one of those very fun memories.
Of course, okay, Max, it makes sense. Favorite Islamic science to study.
Favorite Islamic science to study? Yes, we'll also learn. Okay, that's probably
my favorite subject overall was GitHub a shofar? Okay, I feel like the hardware subjects were just meant for me and I use your subjects.
Okay, that's fair. Mashallah. Okay, so on that note, then from an associate perspective, and this is probably I'm not sure if this is a fair question to ask, but are you waiting?
For a question? That's not fair question to ask. I thought so. But I'm asking it anyways.
Because I anticipated that answer. Okay, last question. Do you find you relate more to Abu Bakr Radi Allahu anhu, or more dama de Allah. Hi.
I'm Natalie Alana. Definitely, why this summer, my parents named Muhammad, okay. And
I told you, I got into a lot of trouble when I was younger.
When I went to Morocco, so after I went to mothers, I was one of those kids as well.
Long story short, is I got in trouble with the law a couple of times, and just needed to shape up, right. And when mentor mentioned to me like shape up or ship out, and you have the qualities of leadership, but you lead everyone to the wrong thing. Like
if you just transition your qualities into the positive thing, then you'll have suddenly people doing good because they You of course hamdulillah took that advice and I will probably 16 years old at the time. And I said our time, Mashallah.
You know, it's very fascinating. If you look at the transition of both personalities when they became Khalifa, very, very fascinating. Even though you're named Omar, the time that I've spent with you, you remind me more of a number of
the folks with that being said, let's open up the floor for questions. Inshallah, if you have something sensitive, write it up and send it forward in sha Allah, not sensitive and you're comfortable. Please raise your hands and we'll answer your questions in sha.
Allah. Chef mentioned earlier that we shouldn't in terms of masculinity, we should choose sources. Does he have any recommendations, learning the seals, like any water books or anything that you recommend? Excellent. So modern day resources for studying this fellowship, modern day resources for studying the CLR is Nabil Rama, the prophet of mercy. I would recommend that there is somebody author, I believe it's a good person Alina doing a lotta Allah. Then you have a Rohit Moto, the CEO of nectar, which definitely won awards on a very famous CLR book.
those are the two in terms of if you're interested in listening to podcast Oh, this year the Prophet SAW. So I'd love
Do you have a series? I started on, like two months ago.
Stay tuned for shift. Yeah.
But I would recommend shift from the NASA agendas. Yes. CRR by Calum Institute, and Dr. Yasser bodies, which are now actually converted into book four, which, for those of you don't have time to listen to 104 episodes, you're gonna read the book 200. Sister side questions?
Yes. Okay. So my question is going back to
the bigger picture for the companions of one another. What are some advice for females to support now? Male?
Excellent. To summarize a question, going back to masculinity and femininity, Allah subhanaw taala, he tells us that we are all here of one another. Well, how do you contextualize that, for our time? How do men support women and other women support men? By all the women bound, right? And there definitely needs to be a level of support, what does that support look like? So the support for that men are in search of from women, and you can agree or disagree. But generally, the support that men are in search of from women is an emotional level of support, right? An emotional level of support the recognition that I need to have a woman by my side to take care of my emotional needs. I don't
want to express my vulnerability.
Men do not shame to express vulnerability, but I want her or the woman in my life to recognize that I'm going through something I need them to be there a hug. So physical companionship, right.
Touch physical touch, definitely important men to support women in their femininity. Is that the question?
our questions panel comes from Walla
This straight shooter
you're stumped. I'm stumped. Allah make it easier. Inshallah when he thinks of something else sure you answer the
next question, however you for me.
So I think a lot of this is circumstantial in the sense what is your relationship with that person before you can actually help them. So I think generally in our communities and societies, raising awareness, conversation discussion, as parents leading by example, educating, showing them what it's like, in our community leadership capacity. I think the concept of gender from the sun perspective is a very, very important one, right? What does what he says eco Calusa mean? Right. What does it mean that the man is not that the woman?
So I think a lot of people will be circumstantial, but I'll share. Like when I when she asked this question, one thing that came to mind was, I remember I was at a conference in Ottawa, pre pandemic, almost a decade ago. And I was praying in the hallway. And Dr. Ingrid Madison was walking by with their speaker, buddy. And she went to the room or somewhere, and she came back with a suggestion, she laid it down for me, because I didn't have a suggestion at that time. And they'll always remember this gesture, because it was an act of kindness. She didn't need to do, but she did. So when you talk about being supporters for one another, it's looking at what does the other person
need in that given moment? And within the parameters of the Sharia, how can I help them best? Right, so I think that would be my approach to answering that question. Along with
psychotherapy. Yes. Can you feel the difference between psychology and psychotherapy?
Excellent. So the first question is with regards to psychology and psychotherapy, what are the differences and is one more reconcilable with Islam than the other? So psychology is the science as a whole. It's known as Erwin neffs. The science of the soul. And psychotherapy is the art of providing the therapeutic approach or the modalities within psychology as talk therapy between a counselor or a therapist and the client, right counselor, a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist.
They are all the care providers for the client or the patient within the realm of the science of psychology. Does that make sense?
So a therapist, a counselor, a therapist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, these for our care providers.
They're providing care in their own level and it varies between province to province. So some province regulate counseling, some regulate psychotherapy, Alberta has psychology regulated, so we don't have psychotherapist as much as we have psychologists in Alberta. Rather, in Ontario, we have psychotherapist that provide the therapeutic approach under the scope of psychology. So if someone is going through an illness, mental health is known as a psychological illness, not as a psychotherapeutic illness, but rather the approach to help heal them. A modality would be used as psychotherapy, which is also known as talk therapy.
That's the strategies that we should employ in order to be able to overcome the taboo of speaking about
what do you think?
So the first question is in regards to what strategies should be employed to combat the stigma of mental health.
I believe social media is definitely huge social media strategy. media in general, is, is starting to be employed to combat mental health. It was a sister Nyssa, who died at Ryerson University, which is now Tmu. She filmed and documented most of mental health journey.
And I believe she played it at TIFF if I'm not mistaken, Toronto International Film Festival. So there there are definitely different approaches purple, don't cry by buena Muhammad, produced by shaking, that one's definitely great.
Having conversations as such,
discussing an engagement with school children at every level, Elementary, Middle High School, anti bullying workshops, and so on and so forth just to get the conversation started, but also throw in resources. For example, we have helplines available specifically for the Muslim community. We have women shelters specifically for the Muslim community. We have counseling centers in person and online specifically targeting the Muslim community. So we're not
We're not going to mashallah folk that are non Muslim, or do not understand our cultural needs. But we have individuals and resources within our community that are culturally competent, that are Islamically, spiritually or religiously informed. And that can help you receive the need to receive the care that you're looking for when it when that you need, right. So definitely, you know, social media and
school children workshops,
conversations within the community. Definitely huge referrals, the right to referral, right, the right to referrals big. I don't know how to help you. And we don't always have to respond when a person is seeking help from us.
But I know these resources within the community that can definitely be helpful for you.
I'm here for you, I can support you. But I can do everything for you. And I can guide you to people that can assist you along this journey.
I'm throwing out some resources for all of you today. I'm sure many of you known these are homes, Sakina homes, Muslim woman shelter that also provide mental health counseling. Right. Then you have nisi helpline which is a Muslim youth helpline, that your pick up the phone or drop a text and you're accessing a counselor right away, free, totally free. Our agency, Canadian Muslim counseling is not a short term solution focus. brief counseling is more long term therapy. But we do provide everything in terms of individual counseling, family counseling, premarital counseling,
marital counseling, and therapy, addictions counseling. And so this is it's online, and it's a pay what you can type service. So many people, we recognize that there's a financial barrier to accessing services, especially within the Muslim community. Not everyone is fortunate to have access to insurance, private insurance. And not everyone, as
has the ability to pay $150 per session. So we say Come as you are, and we'll accept you. Because we should never turn anyone away that is seeking help. Right? Now you have your law because you unlock that right. It's better for us to guide a person towards goodness and help in a holistic way
than it is to have a Ferrari. Right. So if we can be there and support one another in a prophetic way, then we hope and pray that Allah subhanaw taala accepts us in January insha Allah so shocked Not to put you on the spot. But as CMC comes to Calgary can we expect more mental health presentation and awareness presentations? So we had a conversation today about this in sha Allah, we have five core presentations coming up from the team and show that we wish to have debuted here in Calgary, over the next few months in sha Allah Tada in the nighttime. Can we check the sister side? Any questions? Smith?
Okay, so last week, I want to talk about something that I thought was that
men have a lot of like financial responsibilities, especially when it comes to like a marriage, and something that I get this job that men also have a lot of responsibility when it comes to like, the emotional health of their wife, or you know, things like that spiritual. And so this might sound silly, but it's like, what do men get out of marriage? I'm not a man, but I I feel anxious on behalf of Canada or the US. Woman?
Marriage is so much pressure on them.
That's a fair question. So to summarize the question,
but I have a lot of responsibilities in marriage. What do they actually get out of the marriage? We're still trying to figure it out? No, not at all. But not at all right. I think, you know, obviously, I'm just kidding. Because he summarized it for us. He said it dunya dunya. Metallica was my dad, Murata, the Saudi, right? That this world is an enjoyment and pleasure, but the best, you know, a plain German and pleasure you can ever have is a righteous spouse. So there's no way Schiff maybe could be doing a talk right now. And his kids are at home on their own. Right, of course, 100% it's practically like there's no way that I could be traveling to Calgary for work. And my kids are
just left alone. Right? I can go back and I recognize that you know, things will be taken care of. Right?
A lot of a lot of men, when when you ask them, Well, what are the problems that your wife is giving you and they have a list? Mashallah, right they have a list. They're just going one after another, you sick? Tell me one thing that you appreciate it, what's your wife? She's beautiful.
You know, she's beautiful. Or she takes care of the home. Or she takes care of me and you should give me a hug when she embraces me when I
She makes tea for me. I don't feel like men are looking for too much from women. But they're looking for
what are they looking for? I
have no idea.
You have an answer, or is this just a mother's less and less drama piece and less drama piece? But that's the thing. Right? It's my what doe rush man. Right? It's they're looking for love, and they're looking for mercy and companionship
Very much. So I think there's more to this question. I think there's a humanistic side that every individual is looking for companionship. Everyone, individuals looking for friendship, everyone is looking for someone they can trust, everyone is looking for someone that will support them, when they're doubt, everyone is looking for something that will believe in them. And that's what spouses are meant to do for one another, along with all the different types of,
of intimacy that takes us, right. So what do humans get out of relationships? When you understand that question, that's what a man will get out of a marriage and what women will get out of marriage. But what did the specific dynamics look like? I think that's where the gender difference will will take place. Along with that.
So we got a couple of questions here.
How do we convince people who need therapy to seek help?
The avoided due to cultural boundary, things like don't discuss your personal matters out of the home?
The truth is,
we may feel like another person needs therapy definitely doesn't mean that they do need therapy. Now, your desire to convince someone that they need to seek therapy
definitely is rewarding. Okay. But therapy isn't the answer to all of the questions, right? Again, talk therapy is one of the modes that a person can use to feel better or achieve mental well being. It's not the only way, a person can go to the gym, a person can go for a walk, a person can eat better, a person can take medication, for example. So we don't need to convince them to seek therapy. But we can work with them, and strive to be more present in their life, to be individuals that are now a support system and create a level of support around them beyond just therapy until we connect with them enough that they're willing to go to therapy alone. Right. In the huddle. Today, I
mentioned a phrase and it was connect before we correct. The level of connection definitely needs to be there before we're working on convincing people to do things that they don't want to do.
Does that make sense? And the second question is, you want to say anything on knowing when to seek professional help, or mental illness in West is considered a norm and East?
I find that degrading towards the east man. Like, what's that saying about the east?
If this was a counseling session, I would I would say tell me more. I don't know what that means.
A mental illness in West is considered a Norman East. I think what they're trying to say is that people in the West have become too soft and too fragile. And mental excute mental health becomes an excuse to justify bad behavior.
I think in the north and the east is
majority of the stigma comes from the east. They're just like, that is what we say. Or they have they have something but we don't know what it is. That's how Allah subhanaw taala created them. And we've created it to be a norm doesn't necessarily mean it's a norm.
But again, depression is no different than diabetes from the from the east come sugar. Nobody has a problem saying that they have sugar in the East. But we don't like to say a person has depression in the east. All right. chemical imbalance is also a problem that we face physically.
Mentally, it's definitely a challenge. So where to draw the line between mental illness and mental health disorder?
They're wondering the same thing.
I would definitely need to speak to the question or more about this insha Allah. Did you want to comment on this question? Or is it a separate question? It's a separate question. And you want to comment on it. Would you say the question is, how do you know you're, you're at the point where you need to seek
when you're at a point where you can't cope with yourself, and through yourself or by yourself and you, you are or you are coping but you have negative coping strategies, you're going down like a negative
spiral, that's what I would say it's time to reach out for therapy, there's so many.
If you have the level of awareness that you need help yourself, then great. If you need someone to point it out for you, then by all means, but if someone is telling you that you need therapy, then you should heavily consider that this person might be saying something that I might need to adhere to.
They will take the final two questions in sha Allah. So I know we learn how to question and our brother who had a question. So just listening to everything, like being spoken tonight, and a lot of us are looking for an answer when we ask a question like, what's toxic Max masculinity? What's this? But my understanding when it comes to Islam is falls upon the spectrum. And we're talking to deem to fall like the middle. And, and what I'm leading to is because I mean, it really puts you guys on the spot to answer specifically to, you know, what is the solution to this? What is it entertain, or pulling these names out? Whereas, when you look at the Sierra, and we talked about it, if people in
this room are, are Muslims, in general in the community, have actually followed the Sierra, they'll understand that Muslims fall almost in the fall under a spectrum. There's some men that are more masculine that are like Hollywood, and you have evolved
up in Hollywood, where, like, in men management, and there was other Sahaba, that were more the feminine, or I don't like using the feminine, but less masculine, you know, some that were physically stronger. And then I think the issue that, and this is where I was gonna get get to, I think the issue what we have, or what we identify, as we all want to identify, as one point like and agitate or whatever. Now, we all want to emulate the prophesy service. And I think if we actually teach the Sierra, it will answer all the all the issues that we're talking about, and I know you've already got *. And I was thinking as a solution, I don't. And I want to ask you, if you guys
agree, like, maybe we need to start teaching our communities like they did. Up to this Hava the cielo again, but to the depth of identifying the spectrum when it comes to masculinity, because one of the problems I've seen with some of the issue and overcorrected. Sometimes when women were being abused, the shots would come out and say to the men, like, you know, this is what you need to do. But all sudden, the women stop thinking about what my rights are, and the men stop thinking what my or my responsibilities are, you know, are like, yeah, and even when it was overpriced.
What I was thinking is, let's go back to teaching Islam in the way of, let's follow the middle route. Let's not be on the extremes, extreme liberal, extreme conservative, and teach us that you can fall into the spectrum, but just not on the extremes. It's like a guy like amputee, so on one extreme, is very aggressive. Or let's say that a lot of guys appeal to that younger generation, right? Because then there's the opposite spectrum where the guys that are
so the brothers are trying to correct and when they do they get a guy to the extreme. So my question for me is just like, Do you not think that if we went back to teaching,
that we need to be able to solve these or help solve for a lot of the younger brothers in the community and sisters? How we should actually behave?
Great question. So I will summarize my understanding of it. Islamic education has become very reactionary. Anytime there was a problem we responded to it. Is it time to change up the model and take initiative by teaching what a balanced Islam looks like, through teaching the Sierra the Prophet sallallahu sallam?
I think, brother, Beloved, if you touch on it perfectly, definitely having a more nuanced approach to how to deal with or how to raise our children is huge. But the problem then comes up is why our kids are spending eight, nine hours a day at school. Okay, and then bombarded with the left, right or the extreme left or the extreme right. And then we have to reprogram all of that by providing a middle ground in the masjid. It's very hard for it to stick with them.
So I definitely I love the approach of having more Islamic education, proactive Islamic education.
But what are we going to do about the society that we live in that we don't we don't learn it but it sticks to us.
As soon as we walk into these doors, it just sits there. And we come into are a lot of us growing up in Canada we have this dual personality disorder, right like I am Muslim in my in my community and as soon as I'm back at school or university
I want my friends think I have
so I definitely be
grounded in the Cllr. profiting from saucer lemon law is huge. It's essential it's definitely needed. And I would never speak out against it. But we we need to create a solution to the eight nine hours that they're not with us.
And I don't have the answer for you.
Last question for the evening Sharma
has a statement that you approaching
the, I guess what I'm trying to do is bring it out of my mind because as we try to solve a lot of problems face, we need to bring people from among us, number one, listen
to those impressions. But it's not very rosy. When it's stated by you're not gonna get Ferrari it's going to be sound like you're more and about I see a Toyota Corolla is good enough to play. So how would he change the narrative disabled, you want baby to come into that helping profession, you can see it as your business over your practice, candle will still help
you I'm going
to sound like the like, if you step into that role in the helping profession. You're going to
you're not going to recall.
But I think that's a misquote. So what the what the Sheikh was trying to say at that time, is to help someone in their time of need is better than getting a Ferrari. That's what he was saying. And I didn't say that. Sorry. Forgive me. I thought I said that. Yeah, no, that is what you said. That is what you said, yeah. We're trying to attract.
No, no. So the messenger of Allah Azza wa sallam he mentioned that the Allah will be Corrado Lenoir hidden. And this doesn't have to do with therapy, or counseling or anything in general, it's just guiding people towards goodness is better for you than a red camel. And a red cow is reconstituted in a Lamborghini or Ferrari. So it's not that you won't get it, right. It's helping people and caring for and guiding people towards goodness is the best possible thing that you can do. Because now you've gotten someone towards goodness, or you've empowered someone, because let's use the word empowered. I've empowered you to come to the masjid, for example, now every time you pray, I get a
portion of that reward. Now, every time you empower someone else to pray, and they afraid, I receive a portion of that as well. So with with mental health counseling is, if I've lifted or I've, through the grace of Allah subhanaw taala, provided a counsel to you and lifted you out of the state of depression. And now you're able to do things
proactively, or reactively in a positive way. And every time you do it, I receive a portion of that reward. Every time you help someone else, I receive a portion of that, and so on and so forth. It's a domino effect, which is why it's better for you than Lamborghini.
Does that look up? Hang? Oh, we said no more questions. But
just to come up with a previous question.
We're still seeing that, what better it will be better
if we just reflect on the fact that when this event was was created, it was given jetlag, you have the best, but there still was. Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar. I'm gonna repeat that. Yeah.
We're gonna hook up today.
So a second. I think this is a great comment to conclude on. Where he said that ALLAH SubhanA wa Tada gave Adam Alayhis Salam Jana and it still was not enough. He needed Hello. Hello, Aqua. They've chef I know this is a come to a conclusion and let's conclude with this one quick one. Initial thoughts on Calgary and when do we see you back inshallah this conclude on that mashallah Calgary is beautiful, you're an exceptional community. Subhanallah and last month, Allah bless you all and the increasing goodness in sha Allah. I would love to come back to Calgary soon in the Charlotte it's my first time and it definitely won't be my last inshallah. Inshallah, we hope so shaken Allah subhanaw
taala make it easy, and reward you for all the good that you're doing and graduates will feel and protect your sincerity Allah whom I mean, like, let's conclude with a couple of announcements announcement number one on the 29th idrf is having a fundraising dinner with Sheikh Hassan Inshallah, tickets are available. So please do support this great cause. Number two on the 30th miftah is having a conference in Calgary at the Telus Convention Center from 4pm to 10pm. The ISC has a special discount code, which I think might actually be expiring tonight, which is ISC 25. So in sha Allah and encouraging everyone, go to mit.org forward slash circle, purchase your ticket, put
in the discount code, I SC 25 And you can get a
discounter there. You actually got the message younger chick McHale, SONET and mamsa logical hedge, she had doubled but luckily for hundreds of them, myself and many other great speakers coming, so it'd be a great community events of the year try to show up for that inshallah. And I think that's about it. Because I'm not going to everyone for attending sabbatical home and we have a shareholder in the end. I spoke to Luca toboe, he Lake wa Salaam Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa barakato. I'm just going to ask one holding on to the other than that I just hold on, because I think the I do need to take him right away. Do you need to head out right away.
You can pray here and then go across so we'll have the event and then we'll have your karma right after that.