Hamza Tzortzis – Responds to Dr. William Lane Craig on God’s Love

Hamza Tzortzis
AI: Summary © The speakers discuss the controversy surrounding the Islamic culture and the importance of forgiveness as the language of love. They also talk about the holy spirit and its significance in shaping the image of the beast. The speakers emphasize the need for a loving relationship with God to receive forgiveness and receive love, as it is a consequence of love. They also discuss the historical backdrop of the culture and its impact on people's views of Jesus.
AI: Transcript ©
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Sit on Welcome brothers and sisters and friends welcome to a another live stream. This one is going to be a very, very interesting one. Today I'm being joined by her brother Hamza Slava cumbre y, la cama Salaam Rahmatullahi. briquette. How you Alhamdulillah Well, I cannot complain, ever grateful to Allah subhanho wa Taala yourself, I'm humbled bro very, very good and very excited as well. But this is going to be a very important live stream. And the reason is well, because,

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you know, throughout history, Christian missionaries have made a objective and goal of the lives of misrepresent Islam, through through poor translations of the Quran, you know, misrepresenting sound concepts and ideas about the deen. And now we find individuals even today in the 21st century, respected individuals, professors who are again, misrepresenting some core fundamentals of Islam just to paint that negative perception. Now, in particular, what we're going to be discussing today is a clip by Dr. William Lane, Craig, which has been circling again, I, you remind us one that she told me it's quite an old clip that was there a few years ago, but it's been re circulating again,

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where he speaks about Allah. And he speaks about the love of Allah mentioned in the Quran and compares it to the love of God in Christianity. Now, we're going to go through the whole clip, and we're going to break it down in a second, and we're going to get your thoughts on it and highlight why Craig's view is incorrect. It's either that he hasn't read the Quran or understood it properly, or it's his, it's that he's deliberately misrepresenting whichever of the two it is, we're not going to make that we're not going to make that judgment, but we're going to put the facts on the table for people to see for themselves, inshallah. But before we do that Hamza, why don't you give us a

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summary, bro, of what we're going to be discussing? Yeah, before I do that, I would like to basically say that, you know, we have to have some form of intellectual humility and gratitude as well, at the same time because Dr. William Craig has been responsible for reviving powerful Islamic philosophical arguments for the existence of God. And I personally have benefited a lot from his work. And he is referenced in my book, the divine reality. And for that, we should show some form of intellectual humility, and also, gratitude.

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Notwithstanding, it's very important to highlight very carefully that I remember Dr. William named Craig mentioning the concept of God and Islam and Christianity, I think 12 years ago, and it struck me, and I've always wanted to respond in some way. And Alhamdulillah, you gave me this opportunity, and May Allah bless you. And we can do this together.

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And the first thing I like to see is Dr. William Lane Craig has obviously not studied the Islamic intellectual spiritual tradition properly. He hasn't gone into the tafsir the exegetical works of the verses that he is referring to. He, in my view, hasn't studied the normative classical. Creed's, then the commentaries associated with them concerning the conception of the Divine reality in Islam. And this is problematic because he's been willing to be very nuanced and philosophical when it comes to philosophical ideas, existential ideas, feel philosophical ideas, but when it comes to the divine in the Islamic tradition,

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he basically regurgitates a form of narrative that echoes someone who's been on Google and does some basic searches. And this has to change. And hopefully, by the end of this video, it would evoke something within him to engage positively with the Islamic intellectual spiritual tradition, and hopefully engage with us in order for us to have a discussion on this topic. So the thing I really want to say is this. There is an argument against Dr. Craig's argument. And it's based on three premises, two premises and the conclusion. Number one, for God to be maximally loving.

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He has to be maximally forgiving.

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Number two, the biblical God is not maximally forgiving. Three, therefore, the biblical God is not maximally loving. And we're going to unpack this. I think the first premise doesn't have to be discussed because if somebody is maximally loving, they have to be maximally forgiving. repeat those three again, just so everyone's on. So premise number one for

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Got to be maximally loving

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it entails he has to be maximally forgiving. And this is not a controversial premise because forgiveness is the language of love. Number two, and this is the controversial premise. The biblical God, according to William Lane Craig is not maximally forgiving. Number three, therefore the biblical God is not maximally loving now why why is the biblical God not maximally loving, so, not maximally forgiving, and therefore he's not maximum loving. It's very simple. Number one. God's love according to a biblical narrative is rooted in suffering. God's love in a biblical narrative is rooted in forgiving humanity outside of the relation of the human being and the divine and is based

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on an event that supposedly had to happen. And not only that is based on you accepting the event actually happened. It's not rooted in your relation to the divine, your heart being sincere and asking forgiveness to the divine construct cannot construct Contrastingly, the Islamic conception is based on maximum forgiveness, because it just takes a human heart to repent to the divine. And this is why in the Christian tradition because of john 316, because of the sacrifice and the atonement, what the biblical narrative is saying, it's saying that human sin limits God's mercy.

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So from this point of view, William Lane Craig, I think he's basically being a little bit of a sophist here. Because if you really understand the Christian doctrine, then you have to admit that God is not maximally forgiving. If he's not if he's not maximally forgiving, then how can you be maximally loving, because to be maximally loving, and Till's maximal forgiveness as well. So that's the summary of what we're going to be talking about what I'm going to be talking about the fact that actually have you not read that Allah says about himself that he is a good dude, he is a very loving, that's one of his names, which comes from the Arabic Arabic word would which means the

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loving that is giving. He's excessively loving, His love is so pure, and so maximal, that is even greater than any form of love. You can imagine, in a worldly sense, even a mother's love because a mother she needs to love God doesn't need anything yet he loves, he might know how pure and maximum His love is. So I've you not read that God is loving, have you not read that Allah is our man, and which means the merciful. Now interestingly, from a linguistic point of view around my indicates, a very intense, loving mercy, a boiling over type of mercy and immediate mercy and mercy that's so powerful that no one can stop. And Allah says that his mercy encompasses everything, the sooner the

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evil do a believer, the non believer, Allah has intense mercy and mercy in English language is a synonym for love encompasses everything. So why you misrepresenting the Islamic tradition? Because there are different levels of love in the Islamic tradition, different levels of mercy you have, right Ma, you have a Rahim you have more what the you have all of these different levels, and they have specific understandings. Anyone who studied the Islamic tradition would have known this right? So you can't say, Good God is not his his mercy is not universal. His mercy is what would he What did he say impartial and his mercy is

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conditional. That's not true. Because Allah says his intense Mercy is impartial, because everybody is universal encompasses everything. And it's also unconditional. Allah is merciful to you, even if you disobey Him. And as I said, mercy is a cinnamon synonym for love in the Islamic tradition. So this is the kind of summary of the things that we want to talk about. He actually overlooks this, you know, he's just referring to, well, let's just speaking about Okay, he loves so and so he doesn't love songs of the Quran, and he completely neglects the aspect of mercy and our mercy and tell us love. It's a part of love, like you said. And what we're going to see as we discussed, is

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boys that beautiful balance between the love and mercy of Allah, which works in such a magnificent, imperfect way, from the perspective of what this life is all about. We're going to see this too and it's and if anything, we're going to see how the conception of love and mercy of Allah and Islam is being aligned with the objective Allah created reality for is perfect is completely coherence on the one thing I want to mention. Isn't it very interesting that you know is it is it maximum

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To create human beings with inherent sin, whereas human beings in Islamic tradition, they're created with inherent goodness based on the fitrah. I mean, CASE CLOSED, that's like a philosophical Mic drop right there. Your conception of the Divine has already put a distance between humanity and the divine because of sin because the wages of sin is death, right? God is a holy according to the, the Christian tradition. That's why you need an external type of sacrifice. This is not the Islamic tradition. You don't need that. You are you born into goodness, not into inherent evil, inherent sin. So, from this point of view, just on that perspective, what is more loving, like God is making

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it harder for everybody else, according to the biblical narrative, that not only you're going to be creative, you're going to be created distant from me. Inherently you're going to have sin, which distance which distance the human being from the divine, but Allah He creates a human being in goodness, which we call the innate disposition that is based on proton knowledge that has proton knowledge within it, which is God as reality is worthy of worship, and we have a basic level of goodness. Let's proceed abroad. before I proceed. Let me clarify something to the audience. Some people have had an objection with me titling the video Hamza Dorsey's versus William Lane Craig. Now

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I didn't say it was a debate. Obviously, I wanted to make the title a bit spicy. Just so we can get the interest and inshallah this will lead to a proper discussion a face to face discussion between maybe Hamza and William Dr. William Lane Craig, after this goes live inshallah. So yeah, tried to clarify that I never said I was a debate I did clarify on the community section of the page that this is a discussion is a response to reaction video. So apologies to anyone that took the wrong end of the stick with in regards to the title, but now inshallah, let's continue. Let's play the clip, bro. You tell me what to stop, and then we'll analyze each section as we go through. Sure. Sure.

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I think the question is better reworded by saying is the concept of God and Islam, the same as the concept of God and Christianity? Do we have the same understanding of God? And there I argued that they are worlds apart, that the concept of God and Islam and Christianity is very, very different. And one of the principal ways in which they are different is that the Muslim concept of God, I believe, is morally defective. It is a morally defective vision of who God is, as the greatest conceivable being a morally perfect being. God must be all loving.

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And this is exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that God loves sinners. His love is impartial. It is universal. It is unconditional. And this is a world of difference from the God of the Krypton. According to the Quran, God does not love sinners. He does not love unbelievers. He is an enemy to unbelievers. God in the Quran only loves those who first love him. Okay, stop here.

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Okay. Yeah. So as we said, you know, he basically misrepresents Allah in the Islamic tradition, God in the Islamic tradition, where he's basically saying that God doesn't love sinners, who doesn't love those who, you know, disobey Him the wrongdoers? Now we have to understand what does he mean by love here? Because as we said, mercy is also a synonym for love. So does God have mercy for the disbelievers? Absolutely. We've mentioned this in the beginning. Allah says his mercy encompasses everything. Does God have mercy for wrongdoers? Absolutely. Now, but I also want to challenge his conception of love. What type of love are you now talking about? Because there are different types

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of love. The Islamic tradition is very nuanced, right? We have many names, meanings, words for love, and they have a particular reality. Now, you know, it's easy to use the English language say love, but what do you actually mean? So I would I would actually ask him that question, because I want you to think about this book. And I wrote this down on my phone and just unlocked the phone. Now, is it maximal love to love everything the same? That's the big question. Yes. And this is the problem, because it's not maximally loving to love everything the same. Can I love goodness, the same way as I love badness, evil. In actual fact, would it be loving for me to love evil?

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listening, right? So think about this. perfect love is to love goodness to love

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Mercy to love kindness to love connecting with one's creator to love peace.

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And it follows that if you love something, you have to hate its opposite.

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Which means you have to hate evil. You have to hate the opposition to love. You have to hate malevolence, you have to hate polytheism. You have to hate chaos and destruction. Are you saying it's perfect, maximal love? To love that? Which is a barrier to love? I mean, this doesn't make sense. Because if you love everything, then you really don't love anything at all.

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Yeah, you've actually summarized the bed in the way we're summarizing it.

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Yes, the second point is on terms like God doesn't love the sinner. Well, what does that really mean? Does it mean God doesn't love the entire human being? What makes a human being the intrinsic value of the human being? Absolutely not. What does Allah say about the human being? He has a rule, he has a soul, he has a fifth rule. And in that fifth throw, there is goodness, the innate disposition has goodness, does good hate that? No. Let me tell you what God doesn't like. God doesn't like the way the human being has identified, identified themselves by virtue of their state of being I know there's a bit philosophical, but you have to understand this. So good doesn't like

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how we've identified ourselves by virtue of our state of being meaning, how we relate to ourselves, how we relate to others, and how we relate to the Creator. So if my relation to myself and my relation to others, and my relation to the Creator, is not good, is evil. Why would God like that? That's not an expression of magic, maximal perfection. And even though God would not love that, he still has another type of love, if you like, which is he still has mercy for the one who relates to himself relates to others, and relates to the divine in an evil way. So this is a new discussion. And we didn't mean Craig, unfortunately, did not give Islam do justice, especially since, you know,

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he's grateful for the likes of Al ghazali. The 11th century theologian and what baffles me Habibi, yeah, Rudy. Ryan, what baffles me, Alec is only himself he wrote his, his Compendium, and sorry, his revival of the religious sciences, in the 36 volume, what does he write about? He writes about muhabba, love, intimacy, contentment, with Allah Subhana water Allah. And that book, he talks about, he affirms unless and will do, he is loving, and he loves and they can be a loving relationship between creation and the creative. That's his own teacher, William Lane, Craig, teacher, Alex zali, wrote about this, you didn't have to go too far to understand that Allah is I will do the loving.

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And he says that his mercy and compass is everything. So from that point of view, I would even say that the way his understanding God's love is not maximally perfect, is absolutely broad. And just let me just, I guess, paint that in a slightly different way so we can really get the point across to people. It's like what's what we're seeing is from the Islamic perspective, Allah subhanaw taala is maximally perfect love is in line with his names and attributes number one, and number two, it's in line with the objective that is created this world for. Allah tells us for example, it's also a marketer, he created life and death to test which of us is best in deeds. Therefore, God has created

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us in this world, he's made his agents with freewill. And he wants us to do good and stay away from evil. Now, if God has created us for that reason, then why would this very same God who claiming is maximally perfect and maximally loving at the same time, express his love to creation in a way which undermines the whole project? Because he loves if he loves the sinner? Or the Hitler as much as he loves the Mother Teresa or the saint? Whether where's the objective? Where's the where's the motivation for the the saint to continue to be good and to continue on that path? And where is the motivation bro for the sinner and the Hitler to leave the sin and to become good? Right? And I

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really believe bro when Allah says he does not love the disbeliever for example, in the third chapter of the Quran, verse 32, when he says he does not like love the display, but this in a way is acts as a motivation for the disbeliever to leave that state like you mentioned, and adopt a state of absolute belief, right? And notice that it also means that it doesn't mean though that Allah doesn't have another intense mercy for the disbelief Of course, Allah has intense mercy for the disbeliever because we said there's many grades of mercy and love in Islamic tradition is very new. It's but bro you you've opened a massive can of worms, philosophical ones, which is amazing, not for

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us for the Dr. Craig conception of theology.

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Moral duties don't make sense anymore. Yes. Because why is that that pressing ought that we ought to do something

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If Allah loves the sinner, everybody in that way, then you know, in the Christian tradition, I'm fine. I go kill 1000 people, right? And I just believe that Jesus sacrifices his life for me No problem, then I'm okay. As you said yesterday, it's a form of utopian religious nihilism.

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Religious naturalism. naturalism. Yeah. Which is absolutely really, really, really, really powerful. So yeah, we're also also bro. You know, when I and this is another one people to think of it when Allah says he's not does not love the disbeliever. This is Allah's love being expressed to the disbelief in a way, because it's his loving mercy, which makes the disbeliever think Oh My God, my God does not love me, it hits him deep inside his fitrah. And this will encourage him to rectify it. That's a very good point, if you could articulate this way as well. So see, it says disbelief is someone who doesn't who rejects the truth is listening to this. So Allah has intense mercy for you.

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But you won't have a the relationship of special love with him, unless you accept the truth. And you accept the fact that he's the only deity worthy of worship and that Muhammad was the final profit, that should be motivating, because it's not. It's not from the point of view that you are discarded intrinsically as a human being, but the way you've identified yourself and how you relate to yourself, and others, and Allah is something that is not loved at all. And if you want to be in a state of being that is love, and you enter to that loving relationship with Allah, then you have to do X, Y and Z. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I think we should just going back on the point

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that if you love everything, the same, you don't love anything at all. You've undermined the whole human project from that perspective. And that in itself would be a sign that will you in a way you be claiming that the maximally perfect being is not maximally perfect? Yeah, that was the way he expressed his love to creation. Yeah, because yeah Maksim perfect being doesn't love everything the same. Yeah. And yes, it does a maximum perfect being Have mercy for everything. Absolutely. Just like Allah says, he has mercy for everything the sinner that he will do the believer, but there's a love that special love for everything the same? Of course not, because if that's the case, you don't

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really love anything at all. Because as we mentioned, maximum perfect love means that you love goodness, and therefore you should hate the opposite of that which is evil. So from that point of view, I think his assumption is false. Maybe I'll continue to continue on Charlotte, let me play me a second.

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But his love rises no higher than the sort of love that Jesus said tax collectors and sinners exhibit. They love those who love them. And that's the kind of love that the God of the Quran exhibits. So the karamba assures us of God

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fearing and the this we have to hold a we have to say no here this this is this is almost cheeky. How can you say the God of Islam His love is like the love of the tax collector, the sinner what we've said already undermines our because God's mercy and mercy is a synonym synonym of love is in text messages for everything that center that you will do and the good one, but I want to mention something here. In actual fact, he is a victim of his own criticism. Why? Because remember, maximal love entails maximal forgiveness, good in the biblical tradition is not maximally forgiving His forgiveness. In other words, the way he expresses his love is worse than any type of human

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forgiveness, bro, if I did you wrong. And you said to me, I would only forgive you if someone's son is sacrificed. And you have to believe that event happened. Yeah. And by you accepting that event, I will forgive you. Is that forgiveness? Well, that's, that's not adequate for limited human beings. How can you apply that to the Creator of the heavens? And thank you very much. This is what you call a mic drop philosophically, it's not like it's a pen. But you get my point. Yeah. I think what Craig has done here is philosophically theologically spiritually unacceptable. Yeah. It's It's It's bordering literally a joke. And it's unfortunate that you and this is one of the things that really

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shocked me, bro. Was someone of his caliber, wood, wood, wood, wood, make such statements publicly? Not doing his research, you know that and you see this over and over again, and that's what shocking spawn. But anyway, let's finish off what you're saying. Let me play the rest of the clip for you.

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God's love for the God fearing and the good Dewar's, but he has no love for sinners and unbelievers. The Quran says that God does not love the very people that

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JOHN 316 says God loves so much that he said his only Son to die for them while we were yet enemies Christ died for us. So this will be something.

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Yep. Okay, so john 316, that God loves us so much that He basically sacrifices on your song for us right? Now, there's another dimension to this, which doesn't directly relate to what we're talking about. But it's still very significant important because it it, you know, john 316 is supposed to be this amazing thing and that, you know, the Christians have a monopoly on a loving relationship with the divine. I am sorry, this is not the case at all. JOHN 316, actually shows that there is no maximum forgiveness and maximum love in the biblical tradition with regards to the conception of the Divine. Why am I saying this? Because if, if God sacrifice his son for human sin, then isn't me not

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believing in Christianity? is sin. Me being a Muslim? Isn't that a sin? So by virtue of that, I should be okay, right? Yep. Jesus didn't Jesus sacrifice wasn't his sacrifice for me as well. Yeah, me being a Muslim, is that sinful, according to the Christian tradition, mainstream biblical Christianity? We say Imran Hamza? You know, you guys are sinners. Because one, you have inherent sin, and you don't follow Jesus, you follow Islam, which too many Christians would say, it's not the truth.

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And that's fine. But then I would say, well, didn't Jesus die and get sacrificed for me for this thing? If they say yes, then do I have to accept Jesus? They will say no, no, no, no, because it's a gift. You have to accept the gift. You have to accept they actually happened. But for me, doesn't that really devalue the intrinsic nature of the sacrifice? Right. Yeah. Craig's original point God, we just across the board equal in the same at all times? Yeah, that should apply to us all then

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it should it should apply to the manifestation of His love, which is a sacrifice if the manifestation of His love which is the sacrifice doesn't have intrinsic value, because it's also contingent on me accepting everything, which is a historical event, which is based on a text data historically inaccurate has textual integrity problems, x y&z then how is that maximum of love? And, and and how does that make that event so special? When now not only must the event happen, but I have to acknowledge the event and accept the event at the same time.

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So I would say that in some way, obviously needs more theological and philosophical unpacking. But in some way, it really diminishes what you're saying about john 316. And in actual fact, let's go back to the whole forgiveness, maximum a loving tells maximal forgiveness. Well, how is this maximally forgiving? He is? Well, firstly, he's not even maximally just right, because he is blaming someone else. He's blaming someone that doesn't deserve the blame. And he's torturing and he's sacrificing someone that didn't that doesn't deserve this the torturing and the sacrifice. So how is that maximum forgiveness a maximal justice. The other thing is, it's not maximal forgiveness,

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because the forgiveness of me as a human being is contingent on an event outside of my relation to the divine, and is contingent on me accepting it.

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But with regards to the Islamic tradition, maximum forgiveness is manifested itself. Why? Because it just requires me in my heart to do Toba is the far to turn back to God to ask for his forgiveness. I don't need a sacrifice outside of me.

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Because the wages of sin is death. Sin is so bad that it you know, you have to have some kind of blood sacrifice. Yeah. Which really the biblical tradition is saying that God that human sin limits God's mercy. And that's a national Islamic tradition. So which is more loving and forgiving God, God, which one

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is why and this is why Muslims should talk about this morning. We don't unfortunately, because we have a very deep loving type of tradition, and it's manifested in our history. I want to read something to you, bro. Just very quickly. Yeah. And it's actually a historical narrative is based on a Jew, Jewish poet, right? A Jewish poet. You know, our Jewish cousins? Yeah, let me tell one of my Jewish cousins what he said he brought me to the sisters while Hamza is bringing me up.

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So if you have any questions, please hold off. I'll tell you guys we're gonna do questions at the end inshallah. So just repost them if you post them already, and we'll address them inshallah Make sure to share this on your social media is on your lives, wherever you wherever you can share this channel, so other people get access to this too inshallah. God, I'm sorry. So in the Christian tradition, the Holy Spirit is supposed to be working right in, you know, in the in

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The present tense and throughout history, but every time the Christians have always been in power, especially the medieval Catholic Church, it's not been very loving at all. I mean,

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we don't have to talk about what Christianity was in power. What happened here? Look what happened in in Spain. We know what happened in Spain, what was it called? It was called the

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forgotten the name for the Inquisition, right? Killing the Jews and the Muslims, right. And the Jews had to go to instable and Turkey and the Jewish rabbi, he says, Come to the land of the Turks. Rich are the fruits of the earth, we live in freedom and peace, right kind of thing. So every time you know, the Christian tradition, or the Church of the Holy Spirit has been manifesting itself, but it's a key right throughout the ages. It has been bloodshed and killing of minorities and stuff, what's going on here. And it's interesting that a famous Jewish shade sage and poet Abraham, even Ezra, he wrote the following when he was living, I believe, under the Islamic influence Islamic

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authority, he said, the Muslims sing of love and passion, the Christians of war and revenge, the Greeks of wisdom and devices, the Indians have parables and riddles, and the Israelites, songs and praises to the Lord of the hosts. So you know, poetry is like a mirror of what's happening from a historical perspective. And the other thing I want to say is, we had our kind of saintly figures or pious predecessors or pious masters, especially in the early three generations, the love of God, loving God was an act of worship, right, because it worshiping Allah means what to know Him, to love him to obey Him, and to direct and single out all acts of worship to God alone. And there was a

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famous scholar, if you like, it was a woman, a chef, her, her name is robbia l at the Ouija. She wrote a beautiful poem. And she wrote about the love of life very moving. She said, two ways, I love the selfishly. And next, as worthy is of the two selfish love that I do not save think on the with every thought, disappears, love when thou just raise to veil to my adoring gaze, not mine, the praise in that or this line is the praise in both iOS. It's a really powerful

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and it's, it's throughout our tradition, we've had scholarly people, pious people, especially the early three generations, talking about the love of the Divine, talking about all of these amazing things. So it's very important to understand that the idea of God's love and us loving God has manifested itself throughout history throughout our poetry throughout our literature. I mentioned Al ghazali, when he talks about divine love. What about the student of even taymiyah even when he basically wrote you know, his quote, The heart surgeon, and I'm not talking about medical or we're talking about spiritual heart, he talks about the love of Allah, right and being close to Allah and

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loving him. You know, it's an aspect of the key aspect of worship to have the floss which means sincerity to do the act of worship for Allah alone. And one aspect of the floss is due to do because he's worthy of it and to do it, because you love it. Right. So love it permeates our tradition, you know, tradition, so it's just unfortunate that you know, people as popular, you know, they they should have an epistemic duty. Yes, an intellectual duty to at least allow the tradition to speak for itself from that point. Yeah. And honestly, like when you think about that, just the mercy of Allah, even to the sinner, the one that's done all this evil and wrong, bro. Allah loving mercy

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encompasses them, Allah reminds them Allah calls them back, Allah encourages them by telling them that he does not love them. You know, Allah encourages them by telling them who he does love. Allah gives them time on this earth bro. It doesn't just kill them or take the life immediately as soon as they commit a sin or do something. And interestingly, that is a manifestation of intense mercy. Yep. And as I said, mercy is a cinnamon for love in the English language. So Allah has a tense mercy for you, that he would say to you, your state of being how you relate to yourself, others and how you relate to God is something that he does not love. So what would make you think I need to stay change

00:34:19 --> 00:34:51

my state of being? Yes, it's simple. And all of this, look how beautifully it's in line with the objective of this existence as well. That Allah is no creating a situation now by some sort of sacrifice, which which brings into question His justice, you know, brings into question his, his forgiveness. It all just pans out in such a beautiful and coherent way. So, you know, I was just thinking, right, absolutely. Let's Let's finish Let's finish off. If he's not finished already. He's pretty much finished. But let's finish off what he was this what you're saying other

00:34:52 --> 00:34:59

difference between the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible. The Heavenly Father revealed by Jesus

00:35:00 --> 00:35:02

Love mother

00:35:03 --> 00:35:19

wants him to come to Him His love is universal, impartial, and unconditional. But the God of the Quran, His love is partial, is selected and

00:35:21 --> 00:35:21

wants to be

00:35:22 --> 00:35:25

conditions, only those who

00:35:26 --> 00:36:11

will receive it. So this is a vastly different conception of God. So, I would agree with those who say that the God of karma is not the God of Jesus Christ. He's not the God of the Bible. Okay? So fact I would say, Yep, yeah, well, he would he we've already dealt with those points. Just to go back from the point when he says the God of Islam His love is partial selective. And and, again, that's not true. God's intense mercy. And remember, mercy is the sentiment of love in the English language. God's mercy is impartial is for everybody, sinner, and unbeliever, despicable, good, do etc. It's not select sorry. Can you just repeat what Craig said, because I don't think the guys

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could hear the last year. So basically what he said he said, the golden Islam, His love is partial selective and has to be earned. And I'm saying we've already dealt with that because mercy, Allah being a man that intensely merciful. Mercy is a synonym for love. And Allah says that his mercy encompasses everything. So it's not partial. It's not selective is for everyone and everything. good person, bad person, believe a disbeliever. And it's not earned, because you could reject Him, you could live a life of disobeying him, and Allah is to enveloping you in his intense, powerful, immediate mercy, because that's what a rough man means. And interestingly, the word or rock man

00:36:51 --> 00:37:11

shares the same root as the root for the wound. Right? And you know, the womb holds the baby and the mother, what kind of love that she had for the baby. And this echoes a prophetic tradition where the Prophet Mohammed upon him VP said that, you know, Allah has more affection for you than your mother's.

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Case, close. I don't know what Craig is reading? is Craig reading the same tradition? Is he reading the same Koran? Is he reading the same intellectual spiritual tradition? Has he studied the Islamic theology properly? So why would I say to him as this, why don't you accept this woman to the invitation is going to be warm, it's going to be a dialogue, it's not going to be hopefully arrogant and excessive, it's going to be just two people speaking, or as many people as you want. come online for a live discussion. With Sapiens Institute, let's have a discussion on the concept of God and Islam. And the concept of God God in the Islamic in the Christian tradition, it's time that we had a

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conversation about this. It's time that we don't talk past each other. It is time that we are particularly our case for the concept of the of God in our traditions, in a warm intellectual, and in a compassionate way, with wisdom. And you know, without talking over each other, we're having a nice, friendly discussion, just like what you had with, you know, a popular YouTube atheist cosmic skeptic. I'm sure you could do that with someone who you know, is of the Abrahamic faiths. Let's have that discussion. It's time that we had discussion on this particular point. And to do it in a way that is edifying because maybe we've said something a little bit wrong today. Maybe we've

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misrepresented the Christian tradition, maybe whatever the case may be, we can actually learn from each other from that point of view, which is very powerful and very interesting. Notwithstanding, there is another approach to dealing with this issue, which brother Adnan Rashid, if you go to Brother at non Rashid's YouTube channel, he's actually dealt with this in a different way. It was more of a you know, let's see if God is loving because look at the biblical tradition, what it says about killing the unbelievers and all of these things, right. And he uses it, he's an he uses a textual approach. So if someone's interested in that approach, please go to Don Ritchie's YouTube

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channel for you to

00:39:11 --> 00:39:39

learn from that approach as well. That's probably not the particular approach that I'm used to because that's not my learning guidelines, an expert on these things, Masha Allah, my thing is more creed, theology, Thiele philosophy, that's what we've addressed it in this way. But I think both approaches are quite complimentary. And what's really interesting, I said to mine, I said to him, you, you went for the jugular, and you spoke about the elephant in the room at the same time.

00:39:41 --> 00:39:46

But yeah, so so I think this is it. I think we've, we've, we've we've addressed

00:39:47 --> 00:39:59

Professor William Craig, you know, we thanked him in the beginning for for some aspects of his work. But you know, we had to address it the way that we did and hopefully, you know, this warm interview invitation is open and

00:40:00 --> 00:40:14

If you if he wants to his team wants to contact us we will reach out but if he's team wants to contact us, just go to info at sapience Institute org SAP i e n c e institute.org. And yet

00:40:16 --> 00:40:28

recently William Dr. William and Craig has been quite he's been a bit more vocal in regards to Islam and been talking about Islam a lot more I don't know if it's influenced by David word or whatever the case is. But definitely look if you're gonna

00:40:30 --> 00:40:34

afford David Wood was finished while he's finished but he still tries as per

00:40:36 --> 00:41:14

as per the language of hallelujah. Mashallah. So yeah, it's it's it's an open invitation. You know, the objective one of the objectives behind doing this live was one, number one, first and foremost, to clarify, you know, how we understand and try to the best of our ability to justice to how we understand the love of Allah from the summit tradition. And secondly, was to invite Dr. William Lane Craig, for an official debate. It could be online, we know he's done it before with the cosmic skeptic, etc online, so there shouldn't be any excuses or issues. So definitely, you know, and another thing brothers sisters is Hamza does about 300. And he was about 350. People watching this

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live is about 306. Now, brothers and sisters will lie It's it's, I would say it's a responsibility on every single one of us right now to share this or tweet this to Dr. William Lane Craig, or his team. And and get this out this so we can have that dialogue, let's make this content. And another at the very least, at least he gets to learn about what Islam says in regards to the love of God. Yes, and one thing, one thing I want to mention is to the Muslims, right, you know, we have to take responsibility as well. We haven't, you know, collectively, especially in the West revived this understanding of worship that includes God's love. It's very important for us to resurrect this

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classical, mainstream Islamic understanding of the divine nature that his elbow dude, he is the loving, and how we relate to that, because what worshiping Allah entails knowing him but also loving him, and obeying Him. And that includes being humbled before him and directing all acts of worship to him alone. We need to establish a loving relationship with Allah Subhana. Water Allah. The reason I'm saying that because it would change the way we become in the world and who we are. So I've been so shocked, especially when I became Muslim around 18 years ago that Christians can say that they have a loving relationship with the Lord. Muslims don't have a loving relationship with the Lord.

00:42:32 --> 00:43:13

And I'm thinking, How on earth can they even see this? And ask because maybe we don't speak about this enough. Because if any Christian I'm talking to my Christian brothers and sisters in humanity now, if you understood who Allah is, that he doesn't require anything external to the way you relate to God in order to God for God to forgive you, right? You don't it doesn't require an external sacrifice doesn't require you to believe that that sacrifice actually even happened just your heart to attend to him. That's all that's required. This is maximal forgiveness. This is maximal love. The way you worship Allah is not through His Son, or through a pope or a book. It's actually yourself.

00:43:13 --> 00:43:55

Salah the five daily prayers comes from the root word to connect. We want to connect directly to the divine. This is a direct loving relationship, a direct loving relationship. Jesus is not the bridge between you and the Father, the so called father, but rod is your heart and Allah, your heart and Allah, lay your heart gaze to the love of Allah subhanho wa Taala it become closer to Allah by following the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam because Allah says in the Quran, if you love Allah, then follow me meaning follow Mohammed salam, and Allah would love you and forgive your sins. And this is a special type of love. Allah has an intense message for you. But if you want that

00:43:55 --> 00:44:04

special type of love, you want that love, then you need to follow the way to him which is worshiping Allah subhana wa to Allah, because

00:44:07 --> 00:44:45

because, you know, worshipping Allah subhanho wa Taala in the kind of Mohammedan way in the way of the son of the process alum is the way to connect to him and that doesn't require anything external doesn't require his son, it is you directly to Allah so ways, who has more of a loving relationship, right from that point of view, because it's, it's it's all there it's it's you your heart and Allah. So you know, I I want Christians to study this tradition, to understand this tradition to understand who Allah subhanho wa Taala is, and maybe you should play a final video because it's very interesting that William Lane Craig was saying that God in the Quran hate so and so. But what is

00:44:45 --> 00:44:54

actually the Bible say I mean, you've become a victim of your own criticism. Watch this video, guys. Let's put the volume up. Give me a second. Let me just

00:44:56 --> 00:44:59

basically, yeah, carry on until you get it ready. It's in Proverbs. That

00:45:00 --> 00:45:05

The that the God of the Bible actually hates seven people or seven things at least.

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Let me put the nail in his coffin real tight. God hates a liar.

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God hates a liar.

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Proverbs chapter six verse 16 says, These six things don't the Lord hate. Yay seven are an abomination unto him

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a problem alight tongue and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked imaginations that be swift and running to mischief. A false witness that speaketh lies and he that so with discord among brethren

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in the short list of seven things that God hates to amongst them are lying.

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That's that that pretty much summarizes it, bro. I think that's another interesting point. spatola You know, I we're gonna be left at the end because it wasn't necessary. But if you think about it, you know, making it or it wasn't, it wasn't but you know, you have to understand that sometimes you need to be coherent and consistent. You can't be a victim of your own criticism. So apply the same criticism to the biblical god my friend, right? hates God hates someone who's whose God hates the liar, right? The labor of the person who What does force witnesses something so

00:46:33 --> 00:47:07

you square the circle, Dr. William Craig, please, Craig needs to be careful. You're not gonna say I'm gonna say, you know, you're very careful. You're not lying, especially about this type of traditional. We're not saying he is. But he also leads to his research when he's speaking about Islam and the love of God in Islam. That being said, brothers and sisters, two things two calls to action number one, share this William Lane Craig, get this out to him so we can make that actual debate happen between Hamza and Craig. Dr. Craig and secondly, pro you'll be shocked. Last thing you know, when I was going through doing a bit of research yesterday in Google, so many Christian

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missionaries are taking willingly and Craig's argument is arguing about the love of Allah being not perfectly etc In Islam are deficient and writing blog posts and all of these essays and all of these things online. So many of them same narrative. brothers sisters, make sure you push this video this is the starting point of getting the correct narrative out in shallow push this video was rather a non receipts video that he's done on his channel, which was also really takes a different perspective. And yeah, that's it, anything comes up. Last thing you want to say before we wrap up? Well, I wouldn't want to have a debate with Craig I want to have a conversation with him. I think

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that's very important. And hopefully in the future we're going to be writing about this topic in specific response to Dr. Craig's perspective on the concept of God in the Christian tradition, the Islamic tradition and you know, anything we've said that is wrong. Anything that we said that is inaccurate has come from our egos has come from shaytaan anything that is good has come from Allah dude, the loving Lord or recommend the intensity merciful Lord, r Rahim, especially merciful Lord, and everyone needs to remember that may Allah bless every single one of you, Allah guide every single one of you may already be showered and enveloped in God's intense mercy and His boundless

00:48:16 --> 00:48:23

love. This is the Islamic tradition sent on Wiley Corolla hybrid cat care salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah.

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