Tom Facchine – EXPOSES The DOUBLE STANDARDS on GAZA

			Just even starting with us here this morning and I didn't get a chance. So you are. What is your
what is your? What is your cup your mug say there? Oh my mug says Utica MSG, which is kind of the
colloquial thing we go by over on Campbell Street. The official nonprofit name is the Muslim
community association at Mohawk Valley. Email. I'm Tom Facchini. All right, well, I'm here an email
with an email. I'm in the Muslim community mom's the equivalent of a priest or rabbi, not the
religious leader of that community, give you know, religious sermons, lead prayers, conduct
ceremonies, things like that. Is there a specific place that you do that? Yeah, at the actual mosque
		

			we have on Campbell Street and right near the parkway? Actually, it's a really nice facility. We
built it from the ground up two years ago. Yeah. familiar with this beautiful us the best you can
what is Hamas? Is it a political party? What what actually is that we hear everyone talks about it.
But I don't know if we really have a clear understanding of exactly what it is good? Well, that's a
good question. I'm glad you asked. Because the first thing is that not every Muslim is an expert on
Hamas. I am not an expert on Hamas. I have no. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody who knows
anybody. And that's part of the conversation. And occasionally you want to make I think it's really
		

			important, especially when we take into account the fact that a six year old got stabbed 26 times
yesterday, a Palestinian boy outside of Chicago, by some by the landlord who came up and said that
you Muslims must die. Right? So when we talk about collective punishment, and collective guilt, like
the way that we talk about this stuff matters. And the FBI has talked about the increase of their
intelligence in the reports of violence. Right. And again, that's why I want to start with that
caveat is that I have no idea like, what is Hamas? You know, my my general impression is that if you
go to most many movements that are armed movements, they have a political wing, and then they have a
		

			military wing, right? Sometimes there's greater cooperation between those wings, sometimes there's
not so I don't really know, you don't know. Is it a set of the Muslim religion? No. Okay. I can't
answer that. It's not like an sect in the sense that they don't have a distinct set of beliefs that
like would make them like different. However, like when it comes to your beliefs about what is
allowed for you to do in the field of battle. Now there are there's room for conversation there,
because Islam says you cannot target civilians, you cannot fight or kill enemy combatants. So if and
I don't have any reliable information, so this is all hearsay. But if, for example, Hamas is coming
		

			out and saying, Well, actually, no, you can do that, then that's not true, then that will be
something that's against the religion. I was just one more follow up in this because I'm sure
intrigued by this and understand this. Are all maths members, also Muslim? If you know, I would
expect Yes, because everybody in the Gaza Strip is very slim. So that's not true. There's a
population of 1000 Christians in the Gaza Strip, they're also getting bombed and annihilated by
Israeli shelling right now. And yeah, and and I think the way I just see it is a moss is a militant
group that has some political governmental role in the Gaza. Yes, in 2006, they were elected,
		

			democratically that upset a lot of people. They also have a humanitarian wing, from what I
understand they build a lot of hospitals, they run a lot of schools, in a place like Gaza, that has,
you know, multiple refugee camps, that, you know, has, you know, horrible infrastructure, like, you
know, it's a difficult situation for the average person on Gaza Strip, when your food and your
electricity and your other things are being provided by a group that you may or may not agree with,
to the extent that you may or may not know the answer to who would have been responsible for the
attack on the Israelis attending the concert in the kibbutz. Right. Well, that we know that that we
		

			know that that's what initiated this whole conflict, right is what is your says the war? Who would
have directed that to occur? Well, you know, I mean, I may not know I don't know, your specific
question. But there's, it's there's a possibility in these sorts of things that there's a lot of
blame to go around. Okay, right. Because things don't happen in a vacuum, right? So you can talk
about, we can zoom in on the details of the issue. And if it's true, and I say if it's true, because
the first casualty of war is truth, the first casualty of war is truth. And there's a whole lot of
propaganda flying around on all sides. Right. Okay. And we've seen how okay, like, you know, sleepy
		

			Joe got in front of everybody and said he saw a picture of 40 Babies decapitated? No, he didn't. It
was a complete hoax. Now No, right. So there's a everybody has to take just a breather, and there's
a lot of propaganda going around. It's hard to know what exactly to believe the attack, but the
attack is not propaganda. Well, we know that I have something right here that says that one of the
Israeli women that was president has 44 year old mother of three sp Porat said that there was a lot
of crossfire between the Israeli forces and Hamas and a lot of the hostages died in the crossfire.
Yes, there was an attack and an attack on civilians is wrong. Okay, but when it comes to respond
		

			possibility. We know that in a situation of war, things are messy. Everybody's trying to make the
other person look bad. And I don't know, is this something that was completely one sided blame or
completely both like are two sides were involved. And there's a larger context within which these
things happen. Even if I disagree, and I say, Listen, Islam says you cannot kill civilians, you
cannot kill enemy combatants, you know, and if it's true that Hamas is targeting and and non
combatants, that's completely wrong, and I disagree with it. But it also exists in a larger context
where people in Gaza have been cut off, blockaded for 17 years, for 17 years from any like, think
		

			about this. There is a humanitarian flotilla that tried to deliver services and food to Gaza a few
years ago, and the Israeli Navy said, No, you gotta go home, we're not going to have any
humanitarian humanitarian aid, they have their their hand on the spigot, when it comes to every all
food that comes in and out of Gaza, all electricity comes out, you saw how easy to turn off the
water. I'm not saying that, that justifies any sort of terrorist activity, or any sort of targeting
of civilians. But these things happen in a larger context. And that's why I tried to tell people,
the occupation is the root cause of this issue. Even if I completely disagree with the tactics that
		

			Hamas uses, which I do, if it's true that they do these tactics, the Occupy, if you take away the
occupation, you take away the justification and you take away a lot of these. So Tom, what then
because I know this issue is very, very difficult. And it's very, very hard. And for I'm not sure
what the reaction is for some of our listeners, but it's hard to hear views that we just had an
assembly member, assembly member, Robert smaller Nan talking about protecting the Jewish people at
all costs in Israel, and we are their ally, and we need to protect them from evil people in that
part of the world and from being destroyed. Now. I understand there's like you said, there's more.
		

			There's a context there. There's, there's more factors going on. So. So this conversation is really
just not to advocate for one side or another just to hear, and I thought it'd be interesting to hear
representative of our local Muslim community. So before we get any further, I guess, into the
historic global aspect of what's going on there. You live here, you you, you're an imam at the look,
the Muslim community association, Mohawk Valley, what has been the local reaction by Muslims to what
they see going on? That's been brought to your attention? Yeah. Well, there's a couple things. First
of all, we have a lot of Palestinian refugees. in Utica, we've a lot of hundreds of Palestinian
		

			refugees in Utica. And a lot of them have been refugees twice, right? They were kicked out and their
homes were destroyed. Their villages were destroyed in 1947, during the Nakba. And then they are
moved into, into maybe some of the more concentration camps, but their refugee camps in Iraq, and
then when the Iraq War happened, they were refugees from Iraq, and they came to Utica. Right, so
there's, here we go, again, sentiment, right, from a lot of people. There's a frustration that like,
you know, I tried to say in the very beginning, that we're always Muslims are always sort of
targeted with suspicion, and always asked to apologize and always asked to condemn things that we
		

			don't agree with. And, and groups that we're not a part of. Right. And this is why, you know, I said
and I don't know if you saw the Rome sense and all but I was quoted in the Rome Sentinel in a
YouTube video that I did. I was not interviewed for the peace because we missed the deadline. And
unfortunately, it was presented as if it were an interview was not an interview. I was quoted. I
said, we're tired of apologizing. We're tired of apologizing for things we don't do. And things we
don't support, you know, after 911, right? denounce condemned. Yeah, sure. Okay. And then Taliban,
and then ISIS, and then every single year to something happens. And there's a renewed environment of
		

			suspicion around Muslims. You know, my wife wanted to go to she wanted to go out the other day. You
know what I had to tell her, I just read the article about the six year old boy getting stabbed. I
said, you know, what, don't go out, stay in, because she has a hijab. She covers herself. What if
someone wants to do something crazy, right? There is an unfair atmosphere of fear and suspicion
where Muslims begin to be targeted, and it has real consequences. Why doesn't the Muslim community
then condemn the actions of the people like the Hamas what that's because you've been doing this a
minute, but you you can talk about justification for what they did. But we all saw there was an
		

			unprovoked attack on a concert that came from Hamas. It came from this from Palestine. And these
kids are out there just to drink concert and they get attacked. They went to the kibbutz, and they
attack families and they killed families. Now, the people who did there we know we believe are
Hamas. They are Muslim. You're saying we want to distance ourselves from these people. And why are
you condemning billionaires and doing instead of drugs? You condemn the the 26 year old? Sorry, the
26 stabs that six year old boy got yesterday outside school? Do you condemn that? I do. Yes. Okay.
Do you condemn the Israeli army using white phosphorus chemical warfare against the civilians of
		

			Gaza? I don't have a position on that. You don't know the weapons but nobody
		

			is conveyed I don't know if that's been baked in i Let's let's say hypothetically if I had forgotten
weapons on civilians from my quinoa single question that's the point I'm making why you answer first
because we're we're tight let's This is attacking tight you might be being asked apologize, Muslims
to apologize as a tactic to distract against the the oppression that we are suffering. It's a
tactic. Okay. If you look at We're not the ones using chemical weapons in warfare. Okay. Yes, like
we disagree. If Hamas is targeting civilians, we completely condemn it. And we have and condemning
that. But the thing is, it's never enough. I'm kicking them at every single day. I condemn it in the
		

			mosque, I talk to my community, we statements whatever we we've been condemning since 911. And
before that, it's never enough. So tell me what incentive do I have to keep condemning? If even my
condemnation isn't enough? Why would I keep on doing it? Because I get annoyed too, if I came to you
every single day. And I said, every single thing that happens to most of my set, Do you condemn
this? Do you condemn that? Do you condemn this? Do you come on that you don't understand? This
creates an environment of suspicion around Muslims. And that's why a six year old gets stabbed?
Because in the community silence is construed as is a scent. Examine, why don't you condemn stuff
		

			that the Israeli government is doing? Not the average honest, innocent Israelis, but Israeli
government, which the Israeli people are in protest against their protests against Netanyahu, they
want them out? You know, it's like, this is not a Muslim Jewish issue. And some, some Palestinians
and Muslims do live amongst the Jewish people in Israel or do right. This is an issue of the tactics
of a government, a government. And if you I don't know if you follow Candace Owens on Twitter, but
she posted something, she tweeted something the other day, it was very, very interesting. She said,
Okay, everybody says, Yeah, we have to stand up for our allies, like, Okay, but what if there's an
		

			ally, that the ROI is very, very low and stuff and stops making sense? What's the United States
return the return on investment, like, like, like, you know, how many times the United Nations has
condemned Israel for violating its rules, 78 times 78 times, they've used chemical weapons, they're
destroying villages 50 In the past week, okay, since they've been shelling Gaza, 50 families have
been removed from the Civil Registry, I didn't understand what that meant. The first time I read
that I had to like, think about it, that means LoDuca for Keeney, people with your last name,
imagine how to family reunion, imagine all your brothers or your children or your cousins, or your
		

			uncle's or your aunts or your grandparents, the whole family tree removed, every single one of them
dead, children, women, whatever, and you want to tell me that this is justified. That's now now
looking at the that issue. And I think
		

			throughout history, there's a lot of relate religion has fueled a lot of divisions and, and genocide
to some degree and killings. And when you bring it to the modern era, and you're talking about wire
is the Muslim community as to apologize for for all of this all the time. But maybe my perspective,
I'm just looking at this is that when you look at the headlines, and I know historically, like
everybody's been guilty of everything, all of this civilization, that's the way the world develops.
But you and you look at modern history, after 911, the headlines I see of beheadings of militant
groups of of all the bombing back and forth is usually within Muslim communities. So as I don't I
		

			don't see I don't see in those headlines, I don't see. I'm just trying to make a point of what I
observe in the news, the media coverage of versions, Christians leading attacks into the family.
It's like that What do you why what is it about the moat? Those Those the Muslim religion that seems
to be associated with these militant groups that keep making horrible headlines? Here's the thing I
can understand. Okay. We know the politicians lie. Right? We know that the media lies, right? Then
why all the sudden Do we believe everything they say? Do we Do you think that the CNN, the CNN
actually tells the truth? Right, are you like uncritical of everything that CNN saw? I know more of
		

			what I see. I mean, I've seen the beheadings and I see what things are presented on context. You
guys know that you're in media, right? You can spin something or you can select or you can omit,
like, there's all these types of like strategies. Okay. So I'm not saying that these things didn't
happen. I'm saying that when somebody else does it, and it's not reported on, and then the only
person that's reported on is the same type of person, then that's a narrative. And that's a decision
that media makes. I literally saw with my eyes, someone a video of someone in Gaza, carrying their
eight year old child with no head
		

			lost their head in the mud Bartman. Right. Is that not a beheading? Right? Have we not? If you go to
certain African nations, there have been Christians that attack Muslims, like in similar ways with
beheadings if you go to Myanmar, how many Burmese refugees do we have here? Talk about who talks
about Buddhist terrorism, right? There are Buddhist monks. There are Hindus in India that are
		

			that are that have beaten Muslims to death and beheaded Muslims. Why isn't Hindu terrorism? Why
isn't Buddhist terrorism a thing? Because this is a narrative that the media has been pushing for a
long time. It I'm not saying that those things didn't happen that Muslims don't commit atrocities
they do. And we're upset about that. And that makes us very angry, and we try to do whatever we can
to speak out about that. But when it's presented in an unfair and imbalanced way, it becomes a
narrative and people die like that six year old boy. Right? This is my point. How should the
Israelis have reacted to this attack? The Israeli government should follow international law, but be
		

			specific, what should they hit shall not use white phosphorus or chemical weapons if they are using
it? Right, if they wanted to do an actual evacuation of north of Gaza, right, which was support
which was issued with a 24 hour deadline on roads that they had already bombed so that they were
unusable, then they would actually, they would invite outside observers to make sure no war crimes
are going on. Right, they would not use the human shield argument to just use it as a justification
for killing everything that moves. Listen, here's the thing that cracks me up is like you have in
you see this, on CNN, there have been active Israeli military personnel on camera, saying that we're
		

			gonna go kill civilians. They're saying that we don't differentiate between Hamas and civilians. And
you're looking at me as civilians as collateral not saying that they're purposely going to target so
you're not going to make a difference. We're not going to differentiate if there's a 99 year old
woman I can show you I keep receipts I watched last night I watched the the the IDF director, he
said, we do not target civilians, we are targeting Hamas, their military operations where they have
the words they show, and the geysers in the north guys are everywhere they bombed and they have
these they had it designated. So these are all areas where they believe that there were military
		

			weapons or a military group, or that's what they're trying now, are there people who are going to be
close? They're going to be collateral damage? Yes. But But basically, this best is different what
what I am where you asked me to answer I hope they get on the same page, because there have been
military personnel, maybe that one was, was saying something different there. The military personnel
on CNN, I've watched it that have said we're not going to differentiate between civilians and
whatever. So I hope they get on the same page. Okay, so my question, how should you told me what
they shouldn't do? But what should Israel have done? How should they have reacted to this thing,
		

			this attack on these concert course? What should they have done? Again, binds to that
decontextualize? An answer? Yeah. Do you have an answer? What's the answer? Well, you can't detect
decontextualize it from the situation of occupation. If they're serious about not wanting to fuel,
even unjust and wrong, like terrorism, you have to take steps to end the occupation. Like if Israel
has the right to exist, Palestine has the right to exist, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip has a
right to exist, lift the blockade, right, whatever. Specifically, when it comes to a theater of war.
All I asked was that people follow the international law, it's not that hard, right? If you're gonna
		

			give people if you want to evacuate people, and like, actually let them evacuate, you don't give
them 24 hours, you don't give 24 hours for war over 1 million people to leave and get to a place
that's already sort of like, you don't understand Gaza is an open air prison is prison is surrounded
by walls, and the sea and that so what's, uh, what are they really trying to? And I think we, in our
modern history, when you look at what the United States has done in some of these, that there is
generally there is a deliberative process that allows all this to unfold before bombs start flying.
And there is a lot of notice in many cases given to those places to evacuate, because it's not, at
		

			least his eyes seen even after 911. The effort was to try to target the enemies that were doing
this. The last thing United States wanted to have on its on its record sheet is wiping out innocent
people. And that hasn't always been the case. But I think when you look at these words, they've been
handled it as I see it a lot differently than what just unfolded now. But in terms of Israel's fine,
and it does bother me. I understand all all perspectives on this, but it does bother me when you see
innocent children and families being killed. Because I don't know what the answer is. I don't know
what to Mark's question what Israel should have done differently. When Hamas is role is to do
		

			exactly that use innocence and families to try to infiltrate and protect themselves. And if that's
the weapon, the means by which mosque tries to avoid being attacked and killed is to use innocence
as shields, then how do you get around that? Well, here's the thing to both sides do. And that's
something no one talks about. The, you know, the Israeli government, they use their settlers, in
order to shield them and provide them justification to attack and have these reprisals on
Palestinians as well. Okay, when it comes to some of the settlers, and it's crazy, because it's like
if you actually know Palestinians in the Palestinian community, people still have the keys to their
		

			houses, right. It's like, it's like the Bosnians, it's like, you know what I mean? It's like they
left their home in the 40s in the 50s. And the 60s depending on like when, and they actually
		

			still have the keys of their houses, and some dude from Long Island, right? Went over there. And
he's given military training, he has a weapon and he takes it over. Right? Like, it's just like
insane, like the situation. And then what'll happen is like, I watched again, with my eyes, like a
video of an Israeli settler, you know, who was being confronted by Palestinians with no weapons or
whatever there he was trying to take over their land. And he got a little bit of distance he pushed
off and he shot him. You know, point blank. Right. So there's a, an unfortunate situation that the
United States should hold Israel accountable for, okay. And I don't believe in blank checks when it
		

			comes to like, I'm an American first guy, okay. It's like, nobody gets a free ride. If you're gonna
have an ally, they gotta follow the rules, right? Like, do you know that we spend four times as much
money funding Israel's military than we do on food stamps? Four times $13.1 million a day? should
write checks, shouldn't hostages be released? Of course, hostages should always be released, I don't
believe seeing hostages as like a mediately. Yeah, immediately, both sides, both sides. And I know
this may be hard to answer, we're running out of time. But I guess just, I think you did a great job
explaining your side, you're making some points. This is really just continued to go back, you know,
		

			over 50 years, I'm sure, obviously longer, but maybe the last real
		

			occupation of Israel and the West Bank and the continuation of the livelihood, the threats of the
livelihood and the homes and then even the control on on those people? No, 100%. I mean, this is the
thing, you have to fix the root of the issue, you're not going to solve it if you don't fix the root
of the issue. If you had to go to Syracuse for work every day, and you had to pass through eight
checkpoints with armed guards and fences, like you were going through the airport. And then but
maybe they turn you back, right. This is the average life of an average Palestinian in the West
Bank. Right? If you had to live like you had to live in Gaza, you know, like, you wouldn't be able
		

			to tolerate it. And you would be pretty angry at people telling you exactly how you should be
reacting. I'm not saying that that's that their reactions are always appropriate. Right. But I'm
just saying that you have to fix the root of the issue. If Israel as a country, if they have a right
to this great, no problem. But if it was established unilaterally, right, without everybody on
board, you're only going to keep having these problems. If you I don't know what the solution is,
that's not for me to decide, you know, Palestinians and Israelis have to figure it out. Those
conversations should actually be facilitated in a genuine way and not in a way where people agree
		

			and then don't fulfill their agreements. That's happened a lot in the past 2030 years, too. But when
it comes to actually the way forward, you have to solve the root issues, get everybody on at the
table, have every talk about how can we move forward? What What can we do to automate to make it
right? What can we do to make it right? Like, if you don't solve the root of the issue, this thing
is just going to happen? It doesn't help. It's how much of the root of a issue just quickly before
we go, how much of the root of the issue is Iran, which is a bigger fish in this fight? I think you
can debate whether they were involved in this incident or not, but they clearly been supporting the
		

			groups and militants and Hamas and Hizbollah over there. And the NF Irfan is using those groups to
do all the dirty and * work. We got a bigger problem. They are a factor, but they also like to
take credit for for more than necessarily they're responsible for because it makes them look good.
Right for their side. Okay, when it comes to Iran's involvement and anybody else's involvement,
right. It's like, it's just giving them fodder, right. To make things harder on the Palestinians,
you take away any reason to try to court, you know, Iranian backing or funding or whatever, if you
saw the root of the issue. Okay, if you actually have Israelis and Palestinians trying to work it
		

			out together, then no one's going to involve outside parties. No one's going to look for like these
sorts of shady alliances, you know, like, you can't solve the thing without the root of the issue.
And that's the thing that I hope everybody keeps in mind. Tom Facchini in studio with us here this
morning, Tom. Great job, Iman. And, Tom, go ahead, give us the listeners the information about
where, where they may see you and the mosque again. I'm around town, we're on Campbell Street,
right. We're right near the the parkway, and I'm somebody who I'm open to conversation. You know,
I'm born and bred in my country. My family has been in this country since 1905. You know, like, I'm
		

			not going anywhere. There's my country. And you know, like, people, you know, just let's have a
conversation. I believe in being critical. I believe. You can dislike Islam, you can dislike
Muslims, I don't care. But be consistent. That's all I want from people. I want people to be
consistent, be fair, I try to be consistent. And I expect the same from other people. That's fair.
That's fair. Part of the Muslim community association. Tom, always welcome please, if there's
anything that we can do as far as conversation facilitation, maybe bridging any kind of gap,
bringing the community together or furthering these conversations. You're more than welcome. Come on
		

			in. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. You got it anytime. That stay with us nine o'clock talk
		

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