The Deen Show – Islam has the solution to Sexual Harassment with Dr.Danish

			smilla Assalamualaikum Welcome to the deen show. And I have a special guest, Dr. Ahmed Dinesh. Yes.
How are you? Hey, how's it going? So your medical doctor, by profession, also an educator, that is
correct. Tell us a little bit more about your yourself for the audience. Well, I grew up in India, I
came to the US when I was 25 years of age about 15 years ago, I am a medical doctor by training. And
for the last six years, we have been running an Islamic school in Harvey, Illinois. And this is a
unique project because we have a vision that we should not turn away any child from our door for the
lack of their ability to pay. So Alhamdulillah, we started with three students in 2012. And now we
		

			had about 120 students enrolled this year, just span of six years. Is this a myth? Or is a reality
where in the community, it's usually Okay, number one, the parents pushed him to be a doctor than an
engineer. And then they put like your mom at the lowest end? Unfortunately, that is very true. I
don't know if it is just the third thing. Maybe there are some more steps and maybe some more. Yes,
but unfortunate. I think it depends on where you're from. So especially the part of the world I come
from, unfortunately, the importance given to people who pursue religious education is not as much as
it should be. So yeah, I mean, for us, it was like, you know, the top most the most brightest kids
		

			go to the medical school, then the engineering, or maybe the dentist engineering, and then after
that, if they can't really, if they are the sense that they're not doing really great in school, by
the time the electronic 13, then they probably starting of putting them in a madrasah. But what how
would you change the mindset? And what do you think are some fields, especially nowadays, in the
growing Islamophobia, climate, where Muslims should be a part of these certain fields that are out
there that you'd recommend, instead of just these two or three? Absolutely. So I think the the focus
has to change from education, purely as a means of gaining livelihood. Because I think that that's,
		

			that's at the core of the issue. I'm sure that tomorrow, if you are to make sure that every mom gets
paid $200,000 a year, everyone will flock into becoming a mom. So I think that's the core issue. So
I think going forward, we have to really go back to what our predecessors did, we have to make sure
that our education is not dichotomized. Like, what is this right now. So right now, it's like,
either you become a reporter, it is education, like becoming a scholar, or you pursue purely secular
academics with the aim that, Okay, I'm going to become a doctor and you know, make, you know, make
good amount of money. So, those two things are very important that we we should break that cycle, we
		

			should not have this dichotomy in our education, we should make sure that we are giving our children
wholesome education right from when they are kids by five, six years of age. And we have to hold
them in both, we have to make sure that they get good solid foundation Islamic education. At the
same time, they accelerate their academics, English, math, science, social. So by the time they're
17 years of age, we want them what we what I want to call them pluripotent cells. So pluripotent
cells are in our when we are an embryo. These cells are not specialized yet, this cell can become
your brain cell, it can become the eye it can become your ear cell, it can become your liver, cell
		

			body, whatever. It's specialized, it's not specialized, but it will specialize after that phase. So
we want our kids to be such when they're 17, that after that, if they become a doctor, so bit, that
we can engineer, so be it if they become a scientist, so be it if they become the Guild of media and
mass marketing, so be it. But they need to have their focus their grounding in Islamic education.
And some of them Surely, we want them to excel in secular academics, and then pursue religious
education so that our imams are the most knowledgeable people that we have so that they can become
the, the mouthpiece for the whole community. That's what we want. Mashallah, when you were giving a
		

			talk, you give an example and what do you think this does? When the student comes to the university
and a professor, he writes on the wall, on the on the board? He says, No, God here, now you're
Muslim, your faith is not you know, maybe just kind of going through the rituals, you're not well
grounded? Or maybe you are, but what do you think this does to the psyche? When you see this
professor, a PhD academic, and he puts on the board? No wall? No, God hear? Absolutely. I mean, this
is a reality. There are people in the academic field. We didn't just make this up. There's no no
this happened. This happened to my friend who actually mentioned this that you know, I didn't grow
		

			up here. I didn't go to college here. I went on to like, Oh, I did only my residency training here.
But he is born and raised here. So he said, he took a class in psychology. This was college level
class, first day of the school. The professor, you know, there's this large group of students, the
professor goes, writes God on the blackboard or the whiteboard, then puts a cross through it and
says, this does not exist. He does not even say he says, this does not exist, but this is referring
to this is the guard he puts across with the word God. Yeah, he said, this does not exist. And then
he says we're gonna have our psychology class with
		

			Understanding that this does not exist purely, they're trying to show that my psyche as a human
being, I can understand and make sense of reality, without the God being in the picture or the
description. And I think that's a huge problem in many levels. First, for those students who
actually have no basis in Islam, unfortunately, they have been through schooling wherein most of
their like, you know, 95% of the time was spent acquiring similar academics, it will be a challenge
for them for the dean, for the man. There are unfortunately, people who lose their faith. I mean, I
do a lot of you know, youth counseling also, unfortunately, I do have people who come and say, you
		

			know, what, I, I know what we have been taught, but I don't really believe in this. I am having
problems believing this, because this is what youth are telling you. Absolutely. This is the
reality, then we have to brace up for it. And one thing I would want parents to understand is that
your child
		

			will make a duplicate personality. So he will tell you what you want to hear. But what is going on
in his or her head, they will share with only people who are very close to them. And unfortunately,
the fellas are not close, they might not know. And I've seen you I mean and DNI so I saw you're
given like the high five for your kind of like connecting with the kids. You know what I mean by Do
you see there's a lack of connection with some of the, let's say, the people of knowledge of the
moms and then they feel like they're not approachable. You felt by doing these things. It seems like
you're making it seem opening a door like approachability. I think it's very important for educators
		

			for moms, for people who are dealing with our youth, that we have to contextualize our teaching. So
we are not in let's say, you know, Istanbul or karate or Hyderabad, we are in the Chicago we are in
LA we are we are in New York, we need to understand that our children are not Bosnians are not
Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis are surgeons, they are Americans. So they do have, they do have
some norms that are formed in their heads. And we need to make sure that as long as they are not an
Islamic, we should connect to them at that level. So that we can build a bridge through which we can
share communication. If not, that, that bridge will be broken. And then you will not be able to
		

			reach out to your child, but somebody else will, either on the internet, by Facebook or in the
classroom, they will reach them, they will reach out to them. And then that's going to be a big
problem. So speak in the vernacular of the youth nowadays, being able to speak their language.
Absolutely, it's very important understanding the culture, how important it is very important is
crucial. I think without that, we can't really, we can't really teach our children, we have to
understand but obviously we have to know what the Islamic limits are. So yes, I would definitely do
hi fi and make sure that they're okay. But I will not ask them to come You know, have a dance party.
		

			So we have to draw lines where we know that okay, this is Islam, this is culture. So Islam needs to
stay where it is. But whatever cultural issues that we have, whatever country they come from, I
think we have to really move away from those so that we are we are teaching them Islam in their
culture, rather than teaching them Islamic radical Islam is the same all over the world. But it has
to be contextualized to the culture that we're living in. And I think that's very important for us
to give that to our children. In that context. You were talking about this the importance of because
there's no separation when you learn into Deen Islam, it's in the math, it's in the science, talk
		

			about that, how there's never been this dichotomy of separating the two. So let me give you an
example of the times that we call the golden period of Islam, right? Well, of course, Rasul. Allah
is less lemon, this habit that was the golden period, and all that they got in the world, after the
advent of Dean, all the success that they got, definitely it was, quote, unquote, success in this
world, right? Because a lot of is gonna give them whatever is gonna give them an era. But all that
was acquired through the means whatever they had at their disposal, right? But if you fast forward
to maybe about 12 century AD, when you're talking about the time period of because Allah, Allah, all
		

			these scholars, they're polymaths. So they were Islamic scholars, and they were scientists, and they
were physicists. They were chemists. They were up in optics, like most of our, you know, current
optics. The person who started was pieroni Alberoni is the person who really started the whole
concept of optics and light and how light travels and all these cameras that we see today, they all
function on the basis of the edge that the science that he gets from this Muslim guy, this Muslim
Albania. So, this dichotomy did not exist. At that point of time, knowledge was sought for the sake
of knowledge, because it was again, going back to the first point I mentioned, it was not a means of
		

			your livelihood, that was completely separate. People really struggle in their lives for knowledge,
whether that knowledge gave them livelihood or not, and of course, hamdulillah at that point of
time, we had resources when the scholars would be supported by the halifa supported by, you know,
rich people of that time because they understand the importance of knowledge now
		

			We don't have those resources. So the community has to take up the responsibility. And we have to
make sure that anybody who's pursuing knowledge in any field, we got to make sure that we support
them. And that, that I think that so that way the dichotomy will break, we have to make sure that
our schools, our Islamic schools, are well funded, so that we get them the best teachers from all
aspects, whether it be religious sciences, whether it be secular sciences, whether it be
mathematics, whether it be geometry, whatever the case may be optics, or you know, whether it must
be do, we need to make sure that we accelerate whatever we do, and that needs funding. And that
		

			brings us to the issue of the whole chicken and egg thing. You know, if you have a small school, we
don't have enough funds, the funds are going to come in, we have a lot of people, but people are not
going to come and do the big school because they're not comfortable. So what comes first, you know,
somebody has to take that step. And we have to make sure that we put in our resources, first and
foremost, our children, we need to put in our children. Right, right institutions so that we are
safeguarding their Deen. And we
		

			let them form a norm of Islam in their brain, which can be applicable to the current context. Yeah.
I don't know if you agree with me here or not. But I think I have a right to speak on this. Because
I grew up here. I was born here. I went to the public institutions. Do you think some people who
come from overseas or some parents who don't know the culture don't know the schooling system,
they're naive thinking that they can send their kids to a public school? public high school, even a
private school? And have them come out? Right, fine. I think that is, that is the biggest challenge
that I have so far encountered with all my, my, my involvement in these projects. The big problem is
		

			not the children, it's the parents, we really have to convince them that there is something so you
know, and then we have I've heard I heard it compared to like spiritual suicide. Like and some some
shakes that even say, it's like flushing your kid that I don't know if I'm coming to her for like
flushing them down a toilet. But you know, because all of the crazy stuff they're exposed to.
Absolutely. I mean, I, I will put a caveat, though that, because you always have some extremes.
Yeah. But in general, the example I give this is, if you have a car that is 1997, it's a beat up,
van, the tires have ball, you don't have lights, and you know, it's dark and rainy. You can still
		

			reach your destination, but there's a very good possibility going to meet with an accident. So I
think that's an example of the public school system here. Yeah, not every child will come out real
bad, but very likely, they will get affected, you know, their psyche. So they're, that's one thing.
But if you have a new car, brand new car, and then you know you have bright daylight and then
traffic is fine. Most likely you will need three two distinctions. I think that's an example of what
we should provide to our children in schools, our schools, so we really need to make our own
schools, because the amount of an Islamic influence that our public school systems having children
		

			is unfathomable, especially, as you mentioned, for people who are immigrants who have not really
been to school here, they cannot even imagine what we're talking about. Give us some examples,
because there's Christians and Jews who would agree with some of they hold too many good morals that
are there in Islam, same thing, you know, it's a good commonality, but we're losing all those those
things are like out the window. Give us some examples to get hit home. Let me give you an example.
In the state of Indiana alone, there are more than 100,000 families who homeschool their children.
Hmm. Why would they do that? They have access to the best schools. They put in the money in the
		

			school system. They're paying millions and millions of dollars, but they still don't feel
comfortable sending the child their 100,000 100,000 families in one state of Indiana, Indiana. Wow.
Yeah. Why? Because they are very concerned about the influence of, you know, what I call secure
secular humanism. You know, it is a religion. And these are probably a lot of predominant Christians
who are the Christian family and probably 100,000 Christian families instead of Indiana who send
their children who do homeschooling because they got fed up with the system that's around them. So
things like that, you know, initially, we used to call about gender orientation. Now, it's the even
		

			issue of gender identity. Now what's going on is that the child has said, you know, what, you can
choose what you want to be what you want to be called, what you want to address when you're old
enough. I mean, as recently I was hard on wedding, the mom and the director, you know, sitting with
the children's, you know, and you should not pressure them to choose their gender yet. They will
choose it whenever they choose it when they grow up. This is happening now you have a chance of
sending your kid who's a boy to let's say this one of these institutions, and then he comes out says
Norma girl, absolutely. If that's not, if that's not already happening, I definitely know for sure
		

			that there are Muslim youth, boys and girls who have come out openly and say they they are, you
know, gay, they are lesbian. It is it is definitely in system. I have not met anyone yet who has
said that I would want to choose my own gender. But I don't see it to be impossible or even
improbable in the next 1015 years because we are we are primarily a product of our environment.
		

			Whatever we see, what are we here? What are we, you know, interact with, that's what we imbibe. And
the idea of what is right and wrong, that Allah says the Quran is broken Quran is the word is to
follow her means to make the difference between right and wrong. But when you don't have that the
center of education, then they will choose and accept values that are around them. And, you know, we
have to understand this is one of the the fitna that we are facing today that you know, everything
that is an Islamic is being presented
		

			as something good. You know, so Okay, well, you know, what, see, this is the issue of choice. If
that child does not feel like he's a boy, then why should I force it on them. So they're bringing it
as an issue of freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom of speech. But I think the issue is
that we as Muslims need to understand that Allah Subhana, Allah has not made us free. We are his
slaves, he made us whatever he made us, and la de la has given us responsibilities based on what he
has made us. So that is something that's really important, we need to, we need to be aware that,
yes, these children, when they go there every single day, for eight hours a day, 17 hours into 17
		

			years of their life, they're exposed to what they're being exposed to, whether it be issues with
gender identification, or gender orientation, whether it be other values, marriage, you know, the
lack of their lack, lack of so on and so forth. That's one part. So you know, there are two main
ways that the children I think, get affected. One is the the Shabbat, the doubts that they creep in
their mind, because of what they see, if you see something that is so common, and then you tell them
that, you know what, no, that's not right. They're gonna have a doubt. Second thing is Shabbat, the
desires, you know, what they're exposed to every single day, you know, the the *, and, you
		

			know, the freeze mixing and, you know, the fact that they have no limits on their relationships, I
think that those two things are very, very detrimental to our children. So that's the reason why I
think, because a lot of law says enforceable volume, not all people who believe, save yourself and
your families from the fire. And I think we have to make sure that we established institutions
wherein we can, we can give this watch, you're a great example, example, Dr. Danish, that you're a
medical doctor, you're an educator, but you're still holding on to the way of life that was sent by
the Creator to have as an Earth, you're still living your purpose. And from that purpose, that's how
		

			a human being gets piece. And you and but many people, they see this, this contradiction, well, you
can't do that, too. But you're a great example of being able to do that. I mean, I will really be
afraid to say that I'm a great example. But, you know, Alhamdulillah, whatever, whatever I have seen
here. I am not the only person I know lots and lots of people at hamdulillah who are really holding
not with a dean and doing great work. And at the same time they're they're excelling in their
secular academics. You know, I mean, one of the teachers you probably already know, in very famous
in Chicago, Chicago SATA. You know, he's a pathologist, at UFC, UFC, I mean, one of the top most top
		

			flight instructors, the whole world, if not the US, the whole world. And he still is a very, you
know, traditional teacher of the, and so on and so forth. So, it's not impossible, it's just that we
have to set our priorities, make sure that our children get their normative psychology in place for
the first 1617 years. And then inshallah we hope that they are so strong in their Deen that when
they are 17, when they go to college, they will not follow trends, etc. Yeah, they will say someone
calls them to a disco party, and then they're calling drugs and violence and *, they're gonna say,
you know what, I can't do this, even though it is very enticing, I can't do this, because I have a
		

			purpose in life. And we have been created by higher being and we have been, we are we are, will be
answerable for that. At the same time. They don't have to lose out on any of any of their scanners.
In fact, I think all those things are a distraction. I mean, if you've been to college here, you
know that those four years is probably the the time when the shaytan is at you, because the kids are
out of their school, you know, their house, they don't really have any protection. So that's when
they completely flip out. So if our children can be grounded, and then they pursue their education,
I think it's not difficult at all. It's just that we have to have that vision and create
		

			institutions so that for the first 1617 years of life, we safeguard them and make them strong, both
academically and islamically. So that when they grow up, and when they are in college, they will
they will set trends.
		

			When what helps you to have the confidence nowadays, Islamophobia, just huge. And as a medical
doctor, an educator, also, someone who's out there living this way of life, have you had situations
where you've been attacked, say verbally? Has anybody tried to because a lot of people don't end up
Mohammed will come mo they'll start they lack that confidence. You have that confidence. You're
living your deen as a professional. What helps you get this confidence and zeal so maybe this can
now you know where people are lacking that maybe this can help them to be proud to be
unapologetically one who has submitted to the will of God or laws Muslim. I think
		

			I would give a lot of credit to my teachers. And also ultimately, it's, we all have to constantly
work on it, man. So if I believe that what I'm doing is right, and I believe that one day, I have to
stay in front of Allah subhanaw taala. And I believe that Allah is going to give me gender based,
irrespective of how I live my life here, as far as the worldly pursuits are concerned. So if once we
have that strength, I think we should just act based on what is right. And I always feed myself
because you know, back home in India, I'm from India, and then even other parts of the world, you
know, we see persecution going on, so on and so on, and so on and so forth sometimes can be really
		

			depressing. But I always think my wife, merciful, Neha, so you know, as you said, sometimes people
pass commands. And I think of hamdullah we are pretty okay in the US, you know, there are at least
backups because with alumni, we're okay. But what's the worst that could happen? Somebody could hurt
us. If Allah Allah has failed, that allow, you know, that's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. But we
cannot leave our dean for that fear. Because ultimately what is going to happen happens for Las
Vegas, Allah subhanaw taala. But we are not responsible for changing our way of life based on that
fear. We are responsible for doing what Allah Allah wants us to do. And as long as the level of
		

			wants us to keep us safe, we'll be safe. And if Allah wants to test one of his slaves by putting in
a situation, so be it. So the lies lies to them. You mentioned that, you know,
		

			he I know he was very young, while he was seven, eight years old. He said, for the law yafa that
protect a lot of low productivity. How do you protect a law your friend lies about all What about
protect the deen of Allah, you stick to your deen 11 productive. And I think that is something that
we have to put in our children for the first 17 years of their life so that when they go to college,
you know, they're at at ease with who they are. And I think that's that's also something that that
is very important that, you know, if we are
		

			not following Islam as a cultural way of life, but this truly deeply had this from conviction, this
is the truth, then I think the confidence that comes from us, affects people around us. And we can
tell them that you know, what, this is what I believe this is what I think is right. And I think 95%
of people, that reasonable people, yes, they're very reasonable people. I think they understand
that. And then there are some people who are not cases like we have ours, they have theirs. And I
think the children will be when we grow up with our children, Rob, they will be able to deal with
those things. But I think we have to just put that in mind that you this is right. I think that
		

			issue is very important. We have to have conviction it is right. And then be prepared for some
sacrifice. If Allah tala wants to take we always ask dua to Allah that Allah keep us safe. But if
some harm comes to us, camp has come to the Gambia harm has come to Sahaba harm has come to all our
predecessors. And you know, sometimes Allah tala puts people in situations that Laszlo wants to test
when they are more beloved to him. We should be we should be ready for that. Yeah, absolutely. as
ridiculous as we know it is, but sometimes, people who tuned in and they are really zapped with all
the propaganda that's out there. How do you address the issue when someone tries to equate a Muslim
		

			or Islam with terrorism? Well, how do you answer that? It depends on who you're speaking. I think so
there are, as I said, a vast majority of people are very reasonable people, you know, in my
profession have been here for like, almost 15 years now I have met, I have probably met like
		

			20,000 people in my career here, because I see what 1012 people every day, every single day.
		

			Let me give you a small example. I don't shake hands with women. And that creates a huge issue
because every single person, second person, I see the hospital, the woman, but if I explain to them
that, you know, I shake my hands here, and I say, you know what, I have a pact with my wife. I don't
shake hands or hug even young women like yourself, and my wife does the same, to honor our marriage.
And I hope that you can understand I don't mean to offend you. 95% of people will appreciate that.
There are some people who will take offense. You can't really make everyone happy. There have been
instances when one of one person she actually got her cell phone out, and she dial her husband and
		

			say, you know, I want to speak to this doctor. And he she asked me to tell him what I just did. Wow.
Yeah. She liked she liked she liked she liked it. She liked it. She said that you know what we
really want people to keep their hands to themselves, especially this way we really want people to
keep their hands to themselves, especially while the * scandals that are going on nowadays. Yes.
What's happening right now? If we can explain to them that you know what, in the way of life that I
follow, that has been taught to me by Mohammed salatu salam, we respect and honor women. And for
that reason, these are protections that we have that you know what leave alone now harassing them.
		

			We don't even touch them. As if, unless they are very close to where it was like my wife, my sister,
my daughter, my mom, and women really appreciate that. Even men appreciate that just like two days
ago. It happened to me almost every day because I every day I see a new patient. There was an older
gentleman in the bed. I went in, I introduced myself and a mom, Doctor, I'm so and so. And there was
his grandson and the grandsons girlfriend. So she
		

			Hannah explained to us, so the boat, the girl and the boyfriend, whether they were happy is like,
you know, there's something, there's something that we should think of if we get married, if we get
married so that you know, we keep our bond strong. Yeah. So Islam, Allah, Allah has put this
discussion, this, you know, attraction in it, but you have to present it in a nice way. Most of the
time people understand and there are some people who will not understand. Yeah, and these other
people, you know, who a little has put, you know, veil on their heart. Yeah. And you know, that we
have to be just prepared because we can't make everyone happy this. Yeah. So then you make this
		

			example. And then how do you now when you're leading into the question, where as far as like when
people try to make Islam like it's violent and right, you know, so this is this is I think
education, I think education, education, education, educating people, but I think the most important
part is how we behave as Muslims in our workplace, our, our, our attitude, we want to be seen as
people who are helpful, we want to be seen as people who are, who are punctual at work, who be
excellent what we do, and we are respectful of people. And when those things are set, because I
always give the example Rasul Allah lies a lot Islam before he was given the Buddha before he became
		

			a Navy for 40 years. He had his credibility in Makkah. for 40 years, people used to call him his
sada, he's, I mean, he was the true he's the trustworthy. We want that to be the case with the
people when when I worked for some someone for 20 years, and that person said, You know what, not
this person is a truthful, honest person. I think when I say something, they will listen, yeah, when
you say something, they listen, but we have to be that person. And that is more of us working on our
own cells than the people around us. And also, the propaganda can help only to an extent for the
people like you know, somebody wants to make people think that Muslims are terrorists, so on and so
		

			forth. But let's say the 20,000 people I've worked with, if you ask, I'm sure. In the in ChildLine
the law 70 to 80% of them, you know what they're telling these things about Muslims, but have like,
you know, Dr. Ahmed, and plus all these like 10 people I have worked with for the last 15 years. And
we work with them we eat with them, we you know, we are every day we get together and I don't see
anything these people and all that propaganda that they have done is down the drain. Yeah, but that
is something that we really have to for that we have to make our children such strong personalities
that when they go to workforce, they hold on to their Deen and at the same time, they are willing to
		

			teach people with respect, affection and love what Deen is all about without confronting them?
Because you know, it's awesome Allah Allah says that, you know, we have to repel evil with good.
Yeah, I like that. That's a nice slogan. We keep our hands to ourselves. And especially like I said,
in today's day and age, I just tell I just tell you what my wife keeps me on a short leash. Yeah,
she doesn't want my hands to touch any other woman. And you have all of these Weinstein's and this
person, this Hollywood producer, you got people, you know, not just keeping our hands to ourselves,
lowering our gaze not being alone with the opposite gender. And if you implement those things, all
		

			of these and explain them and explain the context when I think because for example, just same thing,
if I just say, you know what, I don't shake hands. Yeah, then you have not explained why you did
then she will think or maybe she's studying thinking because women are inferior in his mind, or
maybe has nothing to do with that. Nothing, nothing to do so then you It depends on if you have good
conversation. Most of the time. This opens up an avenue for Tao. Yes, you tell them then you I do
this because not because I think you're unclean because my mom is a woman, my wife, my daughter, my
teachers. Not I think not because I think you're in fear. Because you're sacrosanct. You are sacred
		

			for me. You know, you are someone's daughter, someone's wife, someone's mother, and that's why I
want to keep my hands to myself. Yeah, I think any reasonable woman will understand where I'm coming
from any reasonable human being and understand that just makes sense. Thank you very much. It was a
pleasure having you
		

			on the show. love to have you back again. Thank you very much Allah slavery, Polycom soundcraft.