Sarah Sultan – Muslim Marriage Advice

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			If you're new here, my name is Amin, and I'm your host. And in today's episode, we will be looking
at what's the best way to resolve problems in our marriages. You know now disagreements and
conflicts are common in all marriages note there's no such thing as a perfect marriage. So now the
question is when when you and your spouse come, you know, you're coming from different backgrounds,
different families, you have different personalities, it's kind of inevitable that
		

			there are going to be slightly little clashes. And, you know, we're bringing out bad habits and
little idiosyncrasies with us. So and you know, and then we've got the day to day things you know,
daily childhood life, so work bills, kids housework, extended family, so to have, you know, things
are going to happen, so we should get ready to deal with that, and shouldn't be so shocked when we
do argue with each other. But the question is as Muslim as we want to have a way you know, an
Islamic way of kind of method to deal with those problems when they arrive.
		

			And so what who I have a lovely sister on today, her name is Sol Sol bounce from us. And she's a
licensed professional counselor. And what she does in her to her day job is to speak speaking to
clients, and she can shuttle him there. We'd like a little bio. She says she wants to empower the
clients with achieving healthier, more fulfilling lives and relationships while reconnecting with
Allah, you know, how many counselors can see going to help you do that. And she has a master's
degree in mental health counseling, and as practice therapy people, mashallah nearly 10 years. She's
also an instructor with Mischka University where she teaches a course this sounds interesting about
		

			this intersection between Islam psychology and counseling. And Alhamdulillah. She's also get this a
research fellow at Yuki Institute, you know, definitely check out her website, so a soul bomb.com So
I'm humbled that love herself for coming on how you today. And hamdulillah I'm just like Lafayette,
for having me. It's a it's a privilege. I'm really glad to be here. Oh, yeah, definitely. I know.
It's, it's early down here. You're into how many is in us at the moment. So it's about it's still
morning. Just barely. It's around 1111 In the morning, and have the lie. Yeah, just starting the
workday. Okay, and so, most of your calcium must be online at the moment. Yet with COVID I've
		

			actually moved my sessions to exclusively online for right now until, until things kind of settle
down with the with the numbers and chulmleigh. And do you find that doing online? Does it still
work?
		

			So you know, since I started my private practice, since moving I live in Houston, Texas. And so
since moving here, I started my private practice. And actually, a lot of my work has been online, I
was a little bit hesitant at first, but I found that it works really well especially, you know, I
work with a lot of new moms and, and moms in general. And so the ease of being able to be at home or
even in your in your car, like in your garage or whatever, has really helped people to get access to
therapy in a way that they maybe wouldn't have if they had to come into an office every every week.
So I found it to be effective. I don't use it for everything like for, for example for trauma,
		

			trauma work, I've you know, I think in person is much more effective. And also even with couples
work, sometimes it can be effective online, I found several cases where and hamdullah it worked very
well. And then in other cases it is really much better in person. So so it depends on the on a case
by case basis, but it's been it's been helpful and from that I've been enjoying it. And is it mainly
Muslims that you work with? Yeah, since I started my private practice, it's pretty much exclusive.
		

			Usually Muslims because they're the the people who tend to gravitate toward my approach since I do
intertwine Islamic values and principles into the work. And so, so typically, I work with Muslims,
although my, my training was in a secular university, and in secular organizations all throughout
the initial years of of my work, and then once I started my private practice about, it's about six
years now
		

			that that's been pretty much exclusively Muslims. And so, it's a lot of your counseling,
		

			on how much of your counseling is about marriage?
		

			So, you know, we could say, if I'm, if you're asking how many, like percentage wise, how many
couples I work with, versus how much is about marriage or two? It's interesting, because they're
actually two different questions, right, with regards to couples work, I would say about
		

			25%, because I also do some family therapy. And I also do a lot of individual work, I have worked
with teams as well, in individual counseling. But when you think about how much of your work is
about marriage with, you know, I would say that would be close to about 80%. Because in all of my
individual sessions with anybody who is married, marriage comes up quite often, and we work through
a lot of marital issues individually. And then also I work with a lot of young women who are not yet
married, and who are trying to find their partner and trying to find what, what they need in, in a
spouse. And so that in and of itself also deals a lot with, with marriage, even though not in the
		

			traditional sense that I think you're asking. Yeah, also, this is quite as quite interesting about
the sisters who are looking to get married. So because I had, I had, I've done two podcasts about
that, but I just wanted to quickly ask you about that. But what is what are the public issues that
those sisters are facing? What like, what are the hurdles that they have in front of them?
		

			That's a great question. I mean, it is really, really hard for a lot of these wonderful, you know,
successful,
		

			practicing Muslim women to find a spouse who's on par with, with the lifestyle that they're looking
for. I think that unfortunately, there is a bit of a shortage of, of Muslim men who are seriously
looking for marriage. And also the means, right, like the the apps, a lot of times, which are for
the purpose of marriage, don't always attract serious people who are seriously looking for marriage.
So for every one possibility, you have to kind of navigate through at least 10 Really difficult
situations. And, and so they're results in a lot of a sense of hopelessness. And a lot of the women
that I work with in terms of, you know, will I ever find someone, like, I'm a good person, I've
		

			tried to worship Allah subhanaw taala, I have tried to remain faithful, I am choosing not to date
because, you know, in, in the traditional, you know, Western sense of the word dating, because I
want to strive to please LS Pat data, and I still can't find someone, it's been, you know, 10 years
since I've been looking and I can't find anyone. And so that's definitely one of the main hurdles. I
think, also, a lot of times, there's Commitment phobia, that that comes in, where, you know, two
people might be talking things seem to be going on, you know, well, but then fears start to come up,
right, you know, in terms of, well, will I be able to deal with this will, it is this really the
		

			person that will make me happy and kind of searching for that sense of perfection, can be really
detrimental. Of course, like family pressures, you know, get into the mix. That's, that's one of the
main issues that come up, too.
		

			And, and I think one of the things that I tend to notice, this is something I noticed before
marriage, and within marriage, like during marital conflicts, is a lot of times people don't fully
know themselves well enough to be able to make a choice as to what partner is going to be fulfilling
for them. And then that comes up within marriage too. Because if people are not self aware, and
don't know themselves, don't know, their needs, don't know, their triggers and things like that,
then that's going to result in conflicts escalating. Because you you know, one of the one of the
things that can really be a factor in leading to a successful marriage is a greater sense of self
		

			awareness. Right. And so when you're when you're looking to get married, you can't pick someone that
you want to be with, unless you know, yourself enough to know what you need in that partner. Right
and
		

			I think a lot of times people really struggle with that.
		

			Yeah, that's
		

			yeah, that's it's that, you know, isn't about hopelessness. That's what
		

			Mahler and other systems saying. And I definitely see that as well, that and so they know, do you so
in that situation do you then give them because I think that we know it, ultimately it's in it's in
under his control, whether we get married, but there are things that we can do, isn't it? You know,
a person, there's
		

			and so, what kind of advice do you then give to sisters in that situation? So, you know, you're
right on point with what you're mentioning is that, you know, almost pack data is the best of
planners, all this data, has decreed things, you know, within the right time with the right person,
at the best point, right, all of these different things. So one of the things that I often tell
people who are really struggling with hopelessness about the future and unknown, right, feeling,
being able to tolerate the distress that comes with uncertainty is a really important therapeutic
principle. Right? So we work a lot on that in terms of, you know, accepting that okay, well, this is
		

			the reality right now.
		

			There are certain things that I can change, there are certain things that I can't change, the things
that I can change that goes in with like the Hadith of the Prophet SAW Selim, where he recommends
you tie your camel and your trust in Allah, right. So the things you can change is time your camel
do what you can, you know, contact people that are in your inner circle to let them know that you're
looking for, for people who would be a good partner for you in marriage.
		

			Looking into these apps, even though a lot of times they're exhausting and really unfulfilling,
right? Looking into all the different alternatives that you can, but you know, all the different
paths that you can, can is is a way of tying your camel. And then and simultaneously trusting and
Allah when it comes to the things that you can't control. And one of the ways that I really
recommend doing that is getting to know who Allah subhana data is. And the best way to do that is
through his beautiful names and attributes. So really looking into listening to lectures about the
names of Allah subhanaw taala, reading about them, you know, getting to know who Allah's patho is,
		

			because if you're going to be able to trust the uncertainty right to be able to trust that Oh,
things are uncertain that I can't control, but they're in the hands of someone that I can trust
unequivocably. Right. And the only way you can do that is if you know who Allah's paradata truly is,
and how, how, how amazing. And how much he's like, unhappy is right that he's your protector. He's
the one who's always gonna have your back and and watch out for you that he's OLALIA him, right?
He's the one who knows. And we're not supposed to be the ones who know, because that is the name of
Allah. He's the one who knows there's no uncertainty for him, even if there's uncertainty for us,
		

			right? So the way when you get to know Allah Subhana Allah, it can really help through that process.
		

			That's such good advice. Yeah, it's good to hear for that, I hope are the listeners who in that
situation, really, you know,
		

			take stock of that. So then, so Okay, so then once now on humbler, we you know, we're married, and
then
		

			issues arise now. First of all, I'd like to, I'm wondering if, like the certain issues that are, I
don't know, whether it's triggers, or whatever we're gonna call it that will reasons why conflict
happens in marriages? I've got a few views on that. But what are one or two? Like, what are the you
noticing other problems that keep popping up? When it comes to when you're speaking to your clients?
		

			That's a great question. It's a little hard to pick one or I know, that's what
		

			I will say, kind of going back to what we were talking about in terms of self awareness, like a lack
of self awareness and knowing your triggers, why they trigger you, right? Like, why does if your
husband leaves the socks on the floor? Why is that such? Like, why does that get such a big reaction
out of you, right? So understanding what you need in a relationship, and then also knowing how to
self regulate, regulate your emotions. So all of this comes under the umbrella of self awareness.
And I think that that, you know, that's definitely those are some of the things that can impact a
marriage. And then, you know, this is this sounds very cliche, but it's absolutely true
		

			communication issues. Definitely. You know, a lot of times when I'm sitting in a session with a
couple,
		

			one, you know, the wife will say something, you know, and we'll share a concern, and I'll have the
husband then repeat it. And you know, I always tell them, I know this sounds silly, but I want you
to just reflect back what you heard her say. What did you
		

			hear her say, right there is her concern. And a lot of the times, what happens is, he says something
that is not at all what she initially said, right, because he heard it differently than she intended
it. And the same goes for when a husband share something, the wife, you know, says it, you know,
says it very differently. You know, I remember once I was working with,
		

			and family therapy is working with a team and and his mom, and you know, I, we were talking about,
okay, well, what's one thing that you, you know, that that you do you appreciate about your mom, and
he shared? You know, I appreciate that she works really hard for our family, you know, she, she's,
she's really hard work, I really appreciate that she does that for us. And so I asked her okay, you
know, reflect back what you heard your son say. And she said, You know, I heard that he you know,
he's thinking that I'm just not at home enough, I'm not present with the family enough, because I'm
working too much. And, you know, so she's hearing it. And the way that she thinks he means it,
		

			right, the way that she feels, is the way that she's going to hear whatever is being conveyed. And
that's usually what happens in couples, is whatever we're feeling, if we feel like the person
sitting across from us, has resentment or animosity toward us, whatever comes out of their mouths,
even if it's something kind, we're going to hear in a twisted way. So you know, a wife, you know,
husband brings home, takeout for dinner, he says, You know, I know you had a long day with a kid, so
I just wanted to make it easier on you. She thinks he thinks I can't handle it. He thinks I, you
know, I can't handle the kids and the cooking and stuff. He thinks I'm not good enough to be able to
		

			do it. Because this is how she's feeling about herself. Right? And so this is all like, it all comes
down to communication, the stories that we tell ourselves, and that we create in our minds.
		

			So then how do you?
		

			You because you're, you hit the nail on the head there? Sorry. You know,
		

			it's that's so true. And I'm sure listeners probably thinking this right now as well.
		

			So then how do Okay, so we're not committed the way we communicate. But also, one of the reasons why
we ended up doing that is because we were never taught how to communicate with each other. You know,
who to who tells anyone how to, like, if we were to have, you know, to talk, but, you know, or even
like, Thank You think I don't want to say what I really think, because then what I'm really thinking
is really bad, you know, like I have? So how do you moderate? Like you said moderate your? Or even
actually, to be honest, how do you know what you're like, instead of being emotional, be rational?
How do you do that?
		

			It's, you know, you're absolutely right, that we have not been taught like, this is a skill. It's a
skill, right? And, and it has to be taught in order to be built, and it has to be practiced, in
order to be successful at it just like anything else, you know, and whatever jobs we have, we
undergo a lot of training, and practice for that training. But when it comes to marriage, there's
this expectation that it's all supposed to come naturally and be easy. And you know, a lot of times,
that's what couples will say is, well, if he really loved me, then he would know what I need without
me having to tell him, or the opposite, where the husband would say that, and that is completely
		

			unrealistic. Right? Or, you know, if she really loved me, then she would know that I love her, I
don't need to keep saying it, you know, but it's unrealistic. So number one, I think in dealing with
this is understanding your expectations are your expectations based on reality, or based on Disney,
Bollywood, Hollywood, you know, like, I'm realistic ideas about what love and marriage truly are. So
having ironing out, you know, the expectations, you know, in terms of what you expect from your
spouse, whether it's realistic, right? And, and working on that. And that, again, goes back to self
awareness. So number one is knowing, knowing it's called metacognition, knowing the thoughts that
		

			you are, that are going through your head, being able to identify them. And once you're able to
identify those thoughts, then you can work on them. If you don't know what you're thinking, if you
don't know that the way that you're talking to yourself or thinking about others, thinking about
your spouse, if you're not taking a moment, each day to really reflect on that, then you can't
change the thought process. So the first step is just being aware of that thought process. When you
are dealing with your spouse, right is going into these discussions with a goal of understanding.
Right? The Prophet SAW Salem, or you know, once said that, that can do you want me to tell you what
		

			is better than prayer, charity and fasting? And so, you know, his campaign said, Yes, of course, you
know, they want to know what could be better than this. And he said, putting things right between
		

			evil.
		

			So if you go into a discussion with your spouse, with the intention, that you're trying to put
things right between you and him,
		

			then you're like, there's so much Barak so many blessings that come from that, because you're
getting the reward of reward that's better than charity, fasting, and prayer. Subhanallah, right. So
you know, going into it with that intention makes a huge difference. And it transforms the process
from the idea of I need to win this, right? Like, I need to win this argument, this conflict, this,
whatever it is, and you go into it with the intention, I need to understand what he or she is trying
to tell me. So that we can work on this and fix things and make this right between us. Right? So I'm
going to try not to get defensive. As I listen. I'm going to try and empathize, right? I'm going to
		

			try and say, Okay, I can see why you would be upset about that. And then I'm going to try to
understand, okay, so if I understand, right, is this what you're trying to say? Right? You're
clarifying, right? And then also, I'm going to try to repair as things start, if things start to get
a little bit topsy turvy, and things start to escalate, I'm going to try to repair right the
prophesy. Selim says that I guarantee a house on the outskirts of Jannah of paradise for the person
who leaves an argument even if they're right, right. So when you try to repair, as you're arguing
with your spouse, then you are trying to leave the argument. Even if you're you're right, in this
		

			situation. And as I say this, I'm talking about normal marital situations, not abusive, abusive
situations are completely different. So just to put that out there, and a repair would look
something like, you know, I think what you're saying makes sense. Or, or if you're feeling
defensive, just saying, Okay, I'm feeling a little bit defensive, maybe, let me just take a breather
for a few minutes. And we can come back and talk about this, or, you know, so if I'm hearing you
correctly, what you're trying to say is, we're apologizing, you know, like, I'm sorry for doing
this, or thank you for saying that, or doing that, etc, right? So so these are all ways that when
		

			you're in the middle of a conflict, you can you can make it something that's actually productive,
that can bring you closer, rather than something that will pull you apart.
		

			Yeah, and that sounds like, we need to let our egos go, we mustn't let our ego get into this, what
you said about I have to be right, and I have to win the argument.
		

			Yeah, and, and that, so that is really important. Being aware that it's that's not actually going to
bring happiness that like, what is it that you want to achieve out of this discussion? Absolutely.
Absolutely. There's actually a saying, in, in the field of marriage counseling, that if someone's
winning, then everyone's losing, in an argument, because if you're winning, then then that means the
priority is me, myself and I,
		

			the priority should be the marriage and you as you as a partnership as a couple, right? You as a as
as husband and wife. And so if one of you is winning, then both of you are losing in the end,
because is this argument, truly the battle that you want to win? Or is the marriage what you want to
win? Right? And then what you said about ego is, is so important, because that's also something that
tends to come up a lot in, in marriage is shifting the blame, right, instead of taking
responsibility for the role that you're playing in a struggle, you shift the blame to the other
person, and it's all about what they're doing or not doing, rather than considering Well, I wonder,
		

			what role might I be contributing to this issue, you know, what my I, you know, what might I be
doing that is, you know, further further, you know, pushing us apart, or, you know, making, you
know, making my husband or wife unhappy, you know, and so taking responsibility for for your role as
well is really important.
		

			And I think so, Mashallah. So I think all of that was so good. And
		

			have you met in a book some because you really do need to write a book. So what's going on in my
head right now?
		

			That's so sweet of you. Know, I'm serious.
		

			This is such this is like gold, this is that this is what we need to be hearing and reading. Because
do you find like, I know in my experience,
		

			you know what happens? You have an argument with your husband, and then you go call your mom or your
sister or your friend and you only give your version of the of the argument and the friends and
family they'll always just say
		

			Well know you're in the right and yeah, he's in the wrong and you get a lot of you don't get that
advice that you just give, you get the it's what it's just compounding your you know, it's not
helping, it's just fueling the fire, or definitely not saying, Well, do you think you'd have did
something wrong? Or very rarely did I ever hear that when I was, you know, the moaning about my
husband? Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, it's, it is really hard in a friendship relationship
to do that. I've noticed and, and, you know, the ideal friendship relationship involves keeping one
another in check. But it's very difficult to do that without, without feeling like, Oh, you're not
		

			on my team. You know, like, here, I am venting to you, and I need validation, I don't need you
telling me that I'm not doing things, right. So that's where I really feel like it's powerful when
people talk to a therapist, right? Because the way I talk to my friends versus the way I talk to my
clients is really different different, you know, with my, with my friends, you know, I have to be a
little bit more cautious, except friends that, you know, I've, I have had for many, many years, and
we know each other on that level, right. But typically, you have to be a little bit more cautious,
you know, in terms of the way that you you say things and, you know, being careful, but with my
		

			clients, I can call them out, you know, and, and, and I do like I'm, I, you know, I always tell
them, I'm kind of a little bit of a tough therapist, you know, I'm not just going to be there to
say, you know, like, how do you feel? Or yes, you're absolutely right. Like, that's just not my
style. And, and so I call them out when it needs to be done. And it's so it's very helpful when you
get somebody who is an objective non friend, right? Who is going to look and pick things apart with
you, and hold you accountable. So you can grow, it can be very, very powerful. Yeah, and that's
really that's the, that's the advice we need when we're having going through
		

			issues like this. So, so Hamdulillah, so you've, you've told us what we should do? One a few of the
things as you maybe you've mentioned them already, that we shouldn't be doing. So when an issue when
we can feel okay, I'm getting angry, my husband has done something. And so what should we not do?
		

			So, you know, they're, like, you know, like we were talking about there a few things that we already
mentioned, in terms of, you know, being able, we should not kind of ignore the inner dialogue that's
going on in our head, because that's going to tell you why you are reacting in the way that you're
reacting, reacting, we shouldn't ignore what we need, in the situation, we should be able to
identify, Okay, you know, underneath this anger, there is a need, you know, am I feeling
unappreciated, unvalued, disrespected, whatever it is, so what do I need in order to feel better,
right?
		

			We, you know, shouldn't ignore the role that we play in this situation, we should take
responsibility. And then also, you know, we shouldn't assume, you know, and that's one of the big
issues that comes up is, well, I know what you're thinking, I know why you did this, I know, you
don't care about me, because if you really cared about me, the socks wouldn't be on the floor, or
whatever it is, right. And so there are assumptions that, that come up, you know, and so being very
careful not to do that. And then the assumptions also are not just, you know, your mind reading why,
right, where I think I know why my spouse did or said what he did. But also the assumption that I
		

			know what my spouse needs, in order to feel loved in order to feel respected in order to feel cared
for, that's actually not a safe assumption. And that can lead to a lot of conflicts too. Because
there's something called Love Languages. And, and so they're like five different categories. And
there could be more, but it's things like quality, time, spending, quality, time together, words of
affirmation, same kinds of things to one another gift giving physical affection. And that can be
anything from holding hands to hugging, intimacy, all of that, and then also acts of service where,
you know, somebody's helping you with something, you know, like somebody's doing the dishes for you,
		

			somebody's taking your car to be serviced and things like that, that those are acts of service. And
these are all different ways of showing and feeling loved. Now, the problem that tends to come up is
that we assume that our spouse wants to be loved in the same way we want to be loved. So meaning, if
for me, it's very important to, to let's say receive gifts, and you give your spouse a gift to show
that you love them. I mean, that's very
		

			You're kind, right. But if you're not, if if his love language is, is physical affection, for
example, and that's just not really an important part of the relationship right now, the gift will
not be enough for him to feel loved. Right? Oh, yeah. And so So, you know, realizing that we receive
love, a lot of times in different ways than other people receive love is is an important thing to
know that we don't have to not fall into the trap of, of that assumption.
		

			And that kind of kind of when we were speaking earlier, you mentioned mind shifts? Yes.
		

			What could you just elaborate on that the saying it's important, because where it's not about one
things I've realized is that you cannot fix another person or change another person that's not in
your control. It's like, you know, when you you have a non Muslim friend, and you're giving him
Dower, and then he can't, why are they becoming Muslim? You can't change you, it's up to them. In
the same way, you can't change your husband, but you can change yourself? Absolutely, absolutely.
And mindset shifts are so important in every relationship, right? Not just in a marriage, but in
every relationship. And, you know, you're asking what's something that we shouldn't do? Right, and I
		

			would say, one of the things that we shouldn't do is, we tend to fall under this like unhealthy
thought pattern of minimizing the good and magnifying the bad, right, where we were, whenever
someone does something, it's never quite good enough, because we're focused on all the things you're
not doing. And that's the same with anything in life, right? If we choose to focus on what we lack,
rather than what we have, life is going to be pretty miserable. And so creating a mindset shift of
actually magnifying the good and minimizing the bad, again, in a regular marriage, not an abusive
one, you know, our brains tend to naturally pay attention to the negatives. But in order for us to
		

			maintain a healthy marriage is actually interesting, there was a study done, where
		

			in order to the a five to one ratio of positive to negative interactions were needed to be
maintained, in order to basically not get divorced. And the ideal was a 20 to one ratio of positive
to negative interactions. And positive interaction is something as simple as like smiling at your
spouse, or saying Salaam in the morning, or a hug or anything like that, right. And so when we look
for what our spouse is doing well, when we magnify what they're doing, right, that is really, really
powerful. Because number one, people love to be affirmed, people love to be validated, they love for
the good that they do to be seen. And it makes them want to do more. Right, and it helps you to
		

			connect much better. And then also when we keep in mind that Alice pans out or promises us, like in
Chicago or somewhere as he then Netcom. Right, that he says that if you're grateful, then I will
certainly give you more. You know, that's one of the most amazing manifestations of this idea. So
Pamela is that when, like, the more that we choose to see our blessings, the more blessings we then
begin to see. Right. So when we start to train our brain to focus on what we have, rather than what
we lack, we begin to see more and more of that goodness, and we begin to receive more and more of
that goodness as well.
		

			Okay, well, I'm glad that yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
		

			Yeah, so 100 Masilela, that was loads of pearls of wisdom there. So could you just let us know where
what's the best way to let's say, a sister wants to book a session with you? How can she get in
touch with you?
		

			So she can. So right now, I will let you know America at capacity. But I do have a waiting list. I
do only work with clients who are located in either New York or Texas because I'm licensed in both
those states. But anyone can email me to help them find a therapist. So you know, I can send them
websites that might help them in their search for Muslim therapists and chulmleigh. And so they can
just email me at therapy at Sato salon.com. And I'd be happy to help them find someone in Java, that
would be a good fit. And so your your website is oversold on.com. I'll put that in the podcast
notes. And you're also on Instagram. Is that correct? Yep. I am still on therapy. Okay, all right.
		

			So to that I care. I have found that really useful. Everything you said and, you know, may Allah
reward you with the baraka in your work.
		

			You know,
		

			as you'd like, I saw your video on YouTube actually where
		

			back then. It was about the pen when COVID first came out, do you do? And also you, you did a speech
somewhere. Where was that?
		

			So So maybe you're thinking about the econo one that's about trauma. Yeah. So when I, the series,
there have been a few things that another therapist nazwa outlet and I published on the pain
Institute's website, and the longest one, or the most thorough one so far has been a series on
trauma, and the impact that trauma can have on our face. So and so that's probably I'm guessing that
might be the one that you're that you're thinking of. Yeah, yeah, that was it. And that was a, you
know, I found it really useful, because it's, it's quite interesting. I think it's really nice that
there are Muslim therapists like yourself available now. Because
		

			as a community, it's not a criticism of us, but it's just a fact that we're not used to going to
therapists problems, were usually the kept in house and, you know, you don't want to it's like kind
of admitting that you're weak or for whatever reason, that's fine. But the point is, there's nothing
wrong with going to a therapist is there? No, absolutely, you know, subhanAllah it's, it's one of
the, you know, like Allah, Allah, the Prophet SLM said that for every disease that has come, Allah
Subhana Allah has also sent a cure, right? And so you know, whenever our mental health is suffering,
that's part of our health. And if Allah gives us the means to be able to work on that, it's it's a
		

			very powerful thing to grab onto and it can be very very helpful and so you know, when we do it with
the intention that we're doing it for the sake of Allah pancetta to take care of the the Amana or
like the trust that Allah has given us with our health and our our wellness.
		

			Like Ken It's that that kind of intention can can really be a blessing when you're starting this
work.
		

			Yeah, and hamdulillah that's, that's excellent. Okay, so I will let you go and inshallah I'd love to
have you back on
		

			lane something. Again, thanks so much for your time and shot I hope you have the the rest of your
days really you know, productive and you know, you get all the appointments out of the way in time
and Sharla what you can just like on Lafayette for having me on on your wonderful podcast, it was
such a pleasure to speak with you and I definitely look forward to doing it again inshallah.
Inshallah as normally go when I go sell our house Allah
		

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