Naima B. Robert – Divorce, Remarriage and Emotional Healing Khadijah alKaddour TMC 2 E2
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Welcome to the marriage conversation with your sister,
Naima B. Robert. If it's your first time
joining us, then welcome, welcome, welcome. Make sure
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whether
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So please
do feel below.
Without further ado, I wanna welcome my guest
today.
My guest today is Khadija Al Khadoor,
and I'm gonna give her I always say
her name like that, even in my own
head. So I'm gonna give her an opportunity
in
the work that she does. And then we
are gonna dive into the topic today
of
step parents,
step dads, step moms, blended families.
Should women who've been divorced
expect less? Should they lower their standards? Should
they raise them? We're gonna talk about it
all today. Sister Khadija, assalamu alaykum
It's so lovely to be here. I actually
didn't know what the topic was until I
came on. So kind of had a guess,
but
So, I am a degree qualified parenting coach.
I've been,
doing programs with mothers,
since
2014,
and I, have been coaching for the last
5 years, mothers,
you know, helping them to reclaim themselves, to
build their self worthiness,
have thriving
relationships,
in their home. And a biggest aspect
is I really want to see thriving Muslim
homes and now homes make up the ummah.
So that is basically the crux of what
I do,
and that is such an important aspect of
that conscious parenting and rediscovering yourself and knowing
yourself so that you can actually be thriving
in those relationships.
100
the secrets of successful wives conference. You'll recognize
mister Khadija from the fantastic
session we had on,
the whole step parenting blended families, etcetera.
It really was Masha'Allah, you know, a really
honest, open conversation. And I think it was
very much appreciated by the audience.
Now
I did a video
a little while back
about,
serving
high high I think
expectations
are too high for men who are coming
in as a stepfather.
Yeah. And,
some people understood where I was coming from
or got it or agreed, and other people
did not agree with what I was saying.
So you were one of the people who
didn't agree with
everything that I said. And I thought it
would be really, really good to have you
bring your perspective because I know that, you
know,
there's lived experience. There's also
helping women working with women,
what works and what doesn't work. So I
thought we could have a chat today about
really the topic of,
I guess, expectations,
standards,
boundaries
when it comes to
after a divorce or whatever.
So
tell me
what you
was in my presentation about, you know, sisters
talking to them about kind of being realistic
when it comes to be marrying. Go ahead.
Go on. Give it to your girl.
It was a while back, but I remember
you were discussing about
not having expectations that this is gonna be
a replaceable father.
That this person coming in is not going
to be,
because many women have that expectation that the
man that they're going to remarry
after they've gone through a divorce is pretty
much I'm looking for someone that's responsible. The
word responsible always comes up.
And, you know, they're basically for many women,
they're looking for someone that is a surrogate
or replacement my father. And the thing is
and I and I I,
there were parts of that I completely agreed
with and there was parts of that that
I questioned.
And I think the part that,
I got was that it's almost like as
a single
mother, because of the connotations or the kind
of negative perception of us as single as
when I was a single mother because I
had that short experience between my two marriages
And working with a lot of single mothers,
there's definitely this kind of cultural conditioning that
you have to take the second best or
you have to have
less than. And so
but in saying that, you also a lot
of women have these expectations
that, you know, they have their list and
they have the things that obviously they want
someone that's gonna be treating their their children
well. They want their children to be looked
after well, and they don't want any harm
to happen to their children. And I think
this
is where it gets gray because
it's and this is where I think this
discussion is going to be about, some of
it anyway, is the fact
that our expectations are very much projections of
what we think and feel.
And so coming into that, I think my
reply one of my comments was when we
position,
a single mother as someone that is used
goods or, you know, she she has to
have lower expectations than say someone that is
freshly married
sorry, freshly young virgin.
There's very much this, you know, comparison and
people use hadith, sikhran, and and etcetera. And
so I think this is the argument area
because it's like, yes, the hadith says go
for a woman that is virgin and young.
Right?
But it also the prophet Muhammad says, well,
married women that were divorced.
And so and there's also the very much
in the Sahaba's time. Women who are divorced
were quite quick in remarriage. That was very
they weren't seen as something that was,
they weren't seen as as,
secondhand or something like that. Now we live
in societies and times, even some cultures where
someone divorces, that's it. They they don't even
think about remarriage.
And there's definitely these messages that are sent
to single mothers that, you know, you should
be focusing on your children,
you shouldn't be getting remarried. There's a lot
of messages, that are sent.
Now there's almost like
expectation wise that you're meant to marry someone
that may not
may not
oh, what's the word?
It's like the word for Tickle the box
is maybe? Yeah. Maybe tick all the boxes
that you both,
there's a word for it where you're both
compatible, basically.
There might be some things that you will,
have to lower your compatibility
or expectations around.
And I remember from my own personal experience
as a when I was a single mother,
I remember Sheikh Dawood but he's a Canadian,
Canadian Pakistani sheikh. He came to my hometown.
He gave a 3 day talk on the
women around the prophet Muhammad alaihi sallam. So
he talked about the qualities of the women
about wrap up the prophet. He talked about
the marriages, the divorces, all these things. And
one of the things he said in in
his work of many years working with couples
and and doing lectures and stuff, he said
single mothers lower your expectations.
So I'm telling you now not because
your dean tells you that,
but because the society we live in it's
more difficult to get remarried.
The thing was it's really interesting about that.
I remember it was the first time I
kind of got was consciously aware. I was
a single mom, I had 4 boys and
I was like, oh, so I was supposed
to lower my expectations.
And I was like, okay. Where do I
where do I sit with this? Because obviously,
I'd come from a marriage where there were
certain things when you come out of that
first marriage, for those of us in divorce,
tend to come out. There's certain things you're
like, I don't wanna I don't want that.
And there's some things I do want. Like,
you become more clear, I suppose. You have
the clarity and you see what's dysfunctional and
you see what,
what is more clear. Now, also, I have
a background in, like, child psychology and child
development. So attachment theory and secure attachment and
dysfunctional,
attachments and help what is healthy, what's not
is very, very, like, very clear in my
head. So from a theoretical part of you,
that was also there. And the thing is
that I quickly picked up
was it's almost like,
yeah, you've got to you've got to either
I
I I suppose what I I I realized
very quickly on was that if you want
to remarry,
it's gonna be part. It's not gonna be
easy. And so I went the easy avenue,
I would say, by making a lot of
Dua. I was like, Hola, I don't have
time to look for some guy. I love
that. Gonna make a lot of Dua.
I think my
Take care of it. Holla. I was seriously,
my
and my I even talked to my husband
afterwards. He's like, wow. Your was like here.
I said, yeah. I was like, oh, send
me the right the right, you know. It's
almost like the image of the horse and
maybe a naive image of the horse on
the shining armor guy coming and, you know,
saving you type thing. But I think everyone
wants. Yeah. Exactly. But, honestly, it was the
Hajjut Dua. I just hit that twice a
lot. Send me someone that's gonna be good
to me, good to my children, and helps
helps me helps me to get to Jannah.
I kept it simple. I kept it simple.
And I think that
honestly was a big key. I didn't have
the big list.
Yeah. That makes a huge difference.
That makes a huge,
huge difference. And I want to just jump
in on that because we're talking about expectations,
right? And just even the idea of lowering
expectations
or standards,
it just feels right. You listen, you immediately
you there's resistance.
Right? Yeah. And so, there's one thing I
wanted to offer on that is for for
anybody who is feeling that resistance and that
ickiness,
I think the important thing
is to clarify
for yourself
where are my expectations
right now. Yeah. Right? Because if, for example,
like, where you were, all you wanted was
someone who would be good to you and
help you to gender
Yeah.
That's
huge. That's actually the biggest thing.
Yeah. But most people
have higher expectations than that in the sense
that they
have more, you know, more of a checklist.
Like you said, a longer list. It's not
enough for him just to be nice to
you and help you to gender. No. Yeah.
He needs
to look like, sound like, smell like, not
be this, not do that, not like this,
not like that, you know? Like to do
this, not like to do that. Yeah. There's
there's
what you said
is everything. Right?
But it's it's it's so much easier to
achieve
than what everyone else is typically looking at,
right, which is all these other
external
lifestyle,
you know, things on our wish. Right? Yeah.
Looking at where your expectations are right now
in terms of, you know, what is it
that you're actually asking for, You know? And
and how much are you asking for?
And then we'll get, you know, hopefully, we'll
get to the point where we talk about
sort of, you know, what we what we
are bringing and what we're hoping to give
in return for that, but we we can
address that later. But I think, you know,
what you said about having that mindset of,
look, this is what I really need.
Yarob, give it to me in however, whatever
form it comes in. I think that's hugely
liberating. What do you think of that?
It was very empowering because at that time
I felt very lost and very scared and
I felt and so it was like I
have to has been allah.
All those to be shipped to me, send
the right persons that was meant for me.
And I didn't have the time. I didn't
have the time to sit on dating sites
or to and I didn't want to. I
didn't want to. Right? I didn't want to
do that. And I see the disaster of
that in so many ways. And I know
some people I suppose you've done this work
for so long and and it just wasn't
in my feature, try, I suppose, to just
put myself out there. It was almost like,
oh, you can make it happen. And I
I just wanna do this. And it seemed
was it wasn't to the most ultimate goal
for me. It was
I need to raise these boys with a
in in a home where there isn't
a dysfunctional abuse. That was important for me.
So for me that was Dua was the
key. Dua was the key. And the biggest
thing I thought, look, if I'm gonna change
anything,
I remember that haditha says 2 things that
came out for me was that Allah will
replace her better when you turn to him
when you seek seek his help. And the
second one was Allah will not change the
condition of a person until they choose to
make that change.
That self awareness was like, that's it. This
is my self awareness journey. If a man
comes a long way, alhamdulillah, but this is
my self myself healing and self awareness journey.
And I think that was so important
because we attract the same thing to ourself
if we don't heal and work through those
things that are that will come up for
ourselves. Those wounds, those low self esteem, low
low self confidence,
holding on to past traumas.
We have to work through and look at
what's what's getting in our way. And you
talked about resistance,
Naima.
When I see expectations
now,
years later, when I see it now, I
see a lot of our expectations are poisonous.
I see a lot of our expectations
are based on comparison.
They're not they're not truly what we want
deep down. They're what society has told us
that we're supposed to have in a man.
Right? And some of us don't even know
what what is a true a true how
can you ask of a man when you
don't even know your
self? And and this is this is the
thing. I it reminds me of,
Sofiane Iba Thore. He says a saying where
he says that,
Red Al Anhul, if you know yourself, you'll
never be affected by what people say of
you. So this is the key. The more
you build your relationship with Allah Sonatala
and the more you build your understanding of
who you are,
you're going to get clearer about who is
it that you inshallah hope to marry, but
you also don't get fixated.
I didn't I didn't look at looks.
Actually, I know I said this, but when
I first met my husband, I was like,
it's really funny. When I first met my
husband, I was like, oh, he's not that
good looking. And I say that to him.
It's like, and now to me, he's so
good looking. Because remember, it's character that builds
a person. Right? I'm not sure he's good
looking, but he wasn't the type. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. But I've always but yeah. But now,
mashaAllah, just it's just and the same with
him when he saw me. It wasn't like
he wasn't sure with the picture. And then
so you don't you you when you fixate,
say you fixate in wealth. Next day the
person could could get
corrupt. A person could lose all their work.
They go bankrupt.
So you don't these are tangible things. These
are things that can change. The conditions can
change. But the one thing that you look
for is the condition of the heart. Now
you don't really know the condition of the
heart, but you can look at the actions
that you know, actions show a lot of
what the words and actions the person show.
Those two values I looked at. I think
values are really important. Get narrowing down what
the values. I was very clear. Two values.
Trustworthiness and honesty. If he has that,
bismillah. And it reminded me of that,
I remember when he came and he proposed
on that, mom said to me, creature that
you're rushing into it and he's the first
one, like, just wait a little. And I
said, mom,
he he meets the criteria. He's honest. He's
trustworthy. This is what I picked up so
far.
And
and I feel I did my istihara and
I feel this is what my intuition, my
inner wisdom told me.
What most people do, they're stuck here in
their thinking.
They're stuck here on the expectations. It's like,
oh, but he doesn't have this and he
doesn't have that. They don't
follow their intuitive intuition. Allah has put that
wisdom in your heart that tells you, yeah,
purpose of why we we
we get remarried, you know. It protects us.
It protects us from so many things. And
the thing that got to me was
there are so many people
working so hard on the the tangible or
the outer appearance or they're working so hard
on all this that is temporary and can
change,
but this is what you gotta be working
on. This is the thing. If you work
on your purification of your heart, you really
connect to all and start to know yourself,
then you're gonna know people better. You're gonna
understand them better. The other thing came up
for me, Naima, I teach red flags, green
flags, you know, dysfunctional relationships, secure relationships.
So many women look for the red flags.
So actually, don't look for that. They're so
they're so Oh. Mirrored by the red flags.
Yeah. They're not seeing the green. They're not
seeing the green flags. We never talk about
green flags. Even when you said green flags
just now, I was like, what? Is that
even a thing? What is a green flag?
And then I'm Paula Kelly. Yeah. Oh, obviously,
that is what a green flag is. Okay.
Tell us a little bit about that then.
So green flags are the things that tell
you in a relationship that there's probably it's
going to probably be a secure relationship.
So things like emotional safety. So when I
talk to him, he doesn't put me down.
Or if I talk to her, she's not
making
snarky comments. Like,
a green flag is asking for repair. So
if there's a rupture, they're not communicating,
a beautiful green flag is that you can
have a difference of opinion and completely respect
each other. So many people will get very
offended by the difference of opinion.
And it is huge. That shows a level
of of maturity. That shows a level of
emotional,
understanding.
And,
trustworthiness
is a basic green flag. You feel secure
with them,
because you've picked up that vibe, the intuitive
vibe. And remembering, you know, our souls are
energy. So,
many people will shut off that and not
actually connect. What I find a lot of
sisters, it's really interesting, if you have an
anxious attachment,
You will then find the person that's good
for you sometimes a bit boring
because they're not.
Yeah.
Woah. Okay. Wait. Wait. Hold.
Hold up. Hold
Because this thing
and we've talked about this before.
This thing of needing to kind of have
the zing at a zing and have the
zhuzh, and he needs to have swag, and
he needs to, you know, really be that
exciting that you know? So what's all this
about boring and attachment?
Please
tell us more about that. So usually people
our attachment styles are born in that first
7 years of life, and they have Tell
us about that. Actually, break that down for
us in case anyone's listening and they're not
familiar with the attachment styles. Let's let's have
a listen.
So basically, in that first 7 years of
life, you
built a bond with your caregivers. The people
that most most reliable caregivers that were in
your care. Usually your mother and father if
that was how your family looks like.
To have a secure attachment,
you had to have aspects of,
that your your needs were met. You felt
a sense of belonging. You felt you felt
love. You felt that actual aspect to love.
Some people were loved, but they didn't feel
it. A feeling of that I was seen
and heard.
Usually, it's reliable
caregiving.
Basically, a child grew up knowing that there
was some safety in the world. They knew
that their needs will be met. And,
they could actually this is a really important
skill because then as adults, they can actually
directly say what their needs are. Many adults
have issues with articulating what their needs are
because as a child, they may have had
those needs shut down or
they weren't met. And so when we look
at children that weren't brought up in a
secure attachment, so they may have this different
types of voidance, anxious attachment. So the child
was brought up in more of an anxious
attachment,
then
they would have feel fearful about their needs
being met or they would feel,
the extra clingy. Right? They feel like they,
they need to attach. They act they activate
more. They feel,
it's almost like they become hyper vigilant about
around relationships. So they can be suffocating in
some ways in their way. There's a sensitive
sensitivity there.
Yeah. Yeah. Is it is it from fear?
Is is is are they operating from fear
when they're, like,
worried that, oh, he hasn't called back or
he hasn't texted. That means that, you know
is that what is that what it looks
like?
So anxious attachment usually want more reassurance in
their relationship. So they will be have a
strong desire for closeness and strong desire to
maintain that closeness. So, yeah, they could become
extra controlling or insecure sometimes in those relationships.
Then when you deal with someone who's insecure,
anxious sorry, avoidant attachment, they want their emotional
distance. They don't wanna get too close. They've
been brought up. Maybe they weren't allowed to
have, you know, as much affection or connection
or it was shut down. Their parent may
not have kept an emotional distance. And so,
they don't like to feel needed.
They they they will,
they feel discomfort with too much emotional connection.
So not understanding
this is really big thing, or they might
be highly sensitive to rejection.
So based on us our attachment styles, which
change as we and and they must allow,
they can become very secure in safe relationships
as adults.
They they they come as and,
the
these
can be come can become secure. But what
happens is before you're even meeting someone,
you're operating from attachment style a lot of
what your child attachment style was. And so
if you're not consciously aware that you may
have and and that's why I work with
a lot of a lot of women. Lately,
especially, I've been working with a lot of
single women looking for a man.
Because they don't they they jump in. So
example is the anxious attachment. I had one
sister, she's anxious attachment. She straightaway jumped and
and she'll she'll try and talk to him
and and just hold on to him and
is scared that he's gonna abandon her or
reject her. And so that doesn't give you
a place where you can really just follow
your wisdom and really check-in and do the
isti hara and get your guardians to check-in
because it's like, no. I've got to hold
on to you. But this also relates to
deeper feelings of unworthiness
and needing someone to kind of prop me
up. So the this very deep area, Naima.
And so,
example characteristic of avoidance attachment, if they have
unmet needs as a child, then they might
project that in their adult relationships. So, oh,
she's not meeting my needs. So projections projections
are big one, assumptions,
things like that. If you're not consciously aware
of this, it's not just 2 people coming
together and okay. Let's get to know each
other. Your own projections, assumptions, beliefs,
sensitivities
to rejection or abandonment or what you perceive
as a rejection or abandonment, that's all going
to impact. And so when
that kind of lush kind of that what
you talked about is that real feel, a
lot of that cannot it can be more
of a,
how do you say it? That can also
be
it it may not it may be signs
where the person is being extra hypervigilant
to connect,
but there's actually they're scared. It's coming from
fear. The sight is scared of being rejected.
So they they come in really quickly or
they're attached too quickly or they may ghost.
Ghosting is a big one in in, you
know, like, they just avoidants. I I don't
wanna deal with this. She's getting too close
to me or he's getting too close to
me. I'll just take a step back. All
this impacts our relationships.
And so when people come and then you
add in expectations,
then you add in children,
You add in all these aspects. Right? So
what I'm saying is
before you even think about whether you're male
or female, before you even think about remarriage,
you've got to know your stuff. You gotta
know what's going on for you, which could've
especially with those of us who went through
our first marriage and it broke down,
which will naturally will,
create a an an abandonment or or rejection
wound sometimes,
is actually knowing what's my who am I?
And pausing to actually know that. And I
don't give a time frame for that. I
don't I think it's something that
people can do a lot of,
expansive impactful work on themselves in a short
period of time, like, really becoming aware of
themselves. But I do think a big, big
issue,
and that's why so many marriages are affected,
is we don't know ourselves enough.
Yeah. Yeah. That was that's
there's a lot there SubhanAllah. And, you know,
as you were talking,
something popped into my head, which I've seen
sometimes I watch trashy reality TV shows, right?
Where they kind of marry at first sight
and all this kind of thing. And something
that struck me about,
you know, when we're having communication with somebody,
this issue of trauma bonding,
right? Where, you know,
it's
almost like
you have a need, right?
You have a need based on a trauma
that is unprocessed, that is unhealed.
And in
when a man, especially a man,
has a similar trauma or has been through
some something similar and is able to tell
you about it,
it's almost like, oh my god. He's in
touch with his feelings. You know? He's being
vulnerable with me. Like, you know, I I
feel safe with him. And now the 2
of you kind of are
you either are kind of making a bid
for that kind of connection or there is
that kind of connection. Is that something that
you've seen before? Is that something to be
concerned about in the talking stages? Definitely this
emotional enmeshment, which also happens already with lots
of
adults did this with their parents. So this
was the emotional enmeshment where the child was
very or the parent was very codependent on
the child to make them feel better. I'm
okay. You're okay. So there is that a
lot of that comes in then into adult
relationships where it's almost like, oh, he's he's,
he's got red lights like me. He's he's
I feel safe with him. But it's actually,
it could be the same old feeling of
something that's actually dysfunctional.
That's actually something that's not healthy. But it
seems it's so intense and it seems so
it seems so
connected.
But in actual fact, it's coming from 2
people that are quite wounded.
Sometimes they haven't worked through those wounds. And
that enmeshment just seems normal. And it seems
normal to and you see women, they'll say,
like, oh, 6 months into the marriage, I
I wasn't the per I wasn't the same
person anymore. Like, I've lost myself,
you know. Or you see, you know, or
I see men. I've seen my situation.
The the brother was such a lovely person
and the sister,
and so loving to his mother and sisters.
But when he got married, she was so
jealous. So she pulled him away. She pulled
him away. She pulled him away. And he's
like, you know, just became a really he
married her. He became more negative like her.
He just literally mirrored her emotional state and
how she thought and how she thinks. And
he and he totally withdraw himself from his
mother and his his siblings, his sisters. So
definitely,
I think that I honestly feel like one
of the biggest issues is not actually our
marriages. It's the dysfunctional parenting of us as
a child, the many of us, that then
grow up as adults. And this is the
intergenerational. It's trauma that's passed on. You know?
And I was just coaching 2 hours just
before, and we're talking about some of my
sisters were talking about that their husbands are
not on the same page. And we're talking
about raising our boys differently.
Like, raising them. Because one of them we
were talking about how that message, you know,
most of their husbands don't cry and their
husbands send the message to their children that
you're not allowed to cry, especially to their
boys. Very common common.
And I was saying we're talking about how
the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasalam, he was
a very emotionally intelligent man. Crying was a
normal aspect. Having emotions was a normal aspect.
Omar Radahn was known for his profuse self
islah crying. You know, when he was really
having that self rectification,
checking in with himself. Busy man, but he
checked in with himself. He took the time
to unplug,
really checked in with himself. And I think
this is a such a key aspect of
marriage is whether you are in your 1st
marriage, second marriage, is is or 3rd marriage,
is really checking in with yourself. The more
you understand yourself, the less you're gonna project,
the less you're going to have these expectations
that are really unrealistic, some of them. They
really are. So example, going back to our
discussion about this this point.
I do believe
and I do believe the father has his
role.
And, yes, some fathers are not in the
best state as a role model, but I
don't think that,
rep anyone can replace still the father. Just
like no one can ever replace the mother.
And I was a stepmother. I went for
a stable stepmother. I was stepmother for a
good in my first marriage, for a good
10, 12 years. And then now my children
have a stepfather. So I'm on that place
where I've watched being a stepmother, and I've
watched what it is to be a step
unstepfather. And there's one thing me and my
husband always say. It's a very,
I wouldn't say, unpaid job, but it's definitely
a place where you, as a step parent,
whether your stepfather or stepmother,
it's
you don't get the credit that I suppose
you
expect or want. Right? It's not an easy
Yeah. If anyone who's a step parent, mashaAllah,
you know what what I'm talking about beyond
what I'm saying. Yeah. You know? And I
think sometimes the other party doesn't always appreciate
that. Now I came into a marriage very
aware of that. I could see that, and
that was one of the things that worked.
6 years down the track, the boys have
a good connected relationship with their stepfather because
I knew
okay. I have to I have to
this is a very delicate situation. This is
very delicate,
away. And everyone would deal with it differently,
but I knew that I had to give
him the position of Amir, but also
the understanding of the dynamic here. Because this
is strangers coming altogether. For sure. For sure.
Yeah. For sure. Mhmm. And I think the
key aspect
you're going there, Neema?
No. No. No. Please continue. I'll I'll say
one more time. Just gonna say that I
really truly believe, other than really consciously getting
to know yourself, being aware of your flaws,
being aware of your own,
perceptions and attitudes that may that also can
come in from old baggage that can come
into that marriage,
is really
being
sensitive sensitive to everybody's needs. But the one
of the biggest things that's so important
is taqwa.
You don't have taqwa. It's not gonna
work. That I I'm so sure of that.
Yeah. You have to have taqwa. You have
to have those hard conversations. You have to
have, okay, what would Ola want from me?
How do I show up with Esan?
Like, this is hard. This is not my
kid, and I have to show up with
Esan with this child. That's that's
that takes a man to do that. Well,
that takes a real woman to do that.
And so you have to know before and
this is one thing this is one thing
as a good advice my husband once told
me. Because they gotta know before if they
cut out to do it. If they don't
know themselves and I don't think they cut
out to do it, then they shouldn't enter
into that relationship.
100%.
100%. I agree. I agree. And, and, you
know,
just
just finish up finishing up on the point
about expectations.
You know, you were talking about,
you know, doing the work on yourself and,
you know, being, being self aware, really being
honest about yourself and, and, you know, having
taqwa,
you know, kind of knowing how to show
up or what you need to do to
show up.
These things that we're discussing now,
I'm of the opinion that these
should be standard.
Right?
And
I think I remember I was having a
conversation with somebody and we were talking about,
you know, what people deserve and what they
expect and all of this kind of thing.
And the person was saying no one deserves
anything.
Right? You don't deserve
anything. Right?
If Allah gives you something, alhamdulillah. If he
doesn't give it to you, yani, alhamdulillah, lakulihal.
Right? But you can't say because I'm x
y zed. I deserve x, you know, a,
b, c, d. But I think,
I want to I want to kind of
try to
to nail this.
And I think
what I
would like
us as women
to remember
is that there's a difference, as you said,
between the inner and the outer.
There is a difference between character
and values and principles
and all the externals.
And I think that if we concentrated
more on ensuring that we first, first and
foremost that we have
what is needed on the inside.
And then we look for somebody who has
what we need them to have on the
inside
and pay less attention to the external,
to the material, to the commercial, to the
image, you know, to, like you said, the
society or the community based, you know, you
know, wishlist.
I think that's that's when I say, you
know, everyone should have realistic expectations, not just
single moms, not just divorcees, not any everyone
needs to have a lot more realistic expectations.
And when it comes to when I said,
you know, like, you know,
lowering your standards, of course, nobody wants to
hear that.
It's because our expectations and our standards are
hyper unrealistic right now. Where we not only
want the full package on the inside, but
we want the so called full package on
the outside. And that's not life.
That's not realistic.
And if we were to look at the
Sahaba, for example, right,
we know that the Sahaba Radi Allahu Anhum,
you know, they they were on a spectrum
of personality traits, of characters, of wealth, of
ability,
you know, of strength. You know, so many
different variations between them. Right? You had the
ones who were extremely jealous, the ones who
were, you know, very supportive, the ones who
were very soft with their wives, the ones
who were very strict. You have a huge
plethora, right,
of of characters and personalities.
So
in a way,
we've built an archetype of the ideal Muslim
husband
Yeah. That doesn't exist.
It doesn't exist. Because for example, the prophet,
sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, a lot of people
say, oh, would you be married to the
prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam? Well, of course,
I would marry the prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa
sallam. He's the prophet. Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
Okay, sis.
Does that mean that you'd be happy to
go to sleep having drunk water and eaten
some dates?
You know, would you be cool with that?
Would you be cool with not being able
to have the luxuries that other people from
that time had? Right? Would you be cool
with being 1 of 9 or 13? Would
you be cool with your husband going out
to fight in battles and leaving you at
home with the children?
It's it's it's an ideal that is not
based in reality.
The reality is, I think, for all of
us as human beings and as Muslims especially,
I love what you said Khadija,
when you said about how your criteria was
so,
so simple and succinct, but it was actually
everything that actually matters.
Is he going to treat you well and
he's going to help you get to Jenna.
And I think if, if more of us
embraced that and literally
shed
all the other baggage or most of the
other stuff, because most of the other stuff,
it only matters because we make it matter.
We make it important in our heads. I
don't know. Am I am I am I,
like, you know, delusional here? What do you
think? No. No. I think what you're saying
is that we're the ones that assign meaning
or we give meaning or power to things.
We we make things look a certain way.
There was something about what you said.
I think that we
I I have the words I would put
it is that
this whole idea about being an empowered woman
means that I have so many
choices. And the thing is, I can be
an empowered woman, but I don't have a
lot of choices as a single mother. And
this is the fact.
Yeah. This is the fact. And it's not
to hurt anyone. Mhmm. But it's like and,
yes, I was self aware and I held
my value. And I said, no. I'm worthy.
And I know I knew myself and I
knew the criteria's in that. And everything's someone
else's on our tell us permission and will.
But I was humble enough to know
that,
you know, I wasn't in the forefront, hamdullah,
but I was humble enough to know that
I don't think and we know statistically 2nd
and third marriages, percentage wise, is even far
less than what our first marriages are.
And I talked to a lot of single
women as single mothers and they always say
some of them say, you know, if that
marriage wasn't abusive, I would have stayed
just for the kids to have that intact.
You know. So what I'm saying is that
if you're not in an abusive marriage and
you're thinking of exiting
and I see this a lot because there
is this idea, and I know people don't
like to talk about it, but there is
this idea that the grass is greener on
the other side. The grass is greener where
you water it. And I'm not This idea
that there's a whole,
like like a like a lovely candy factory
full of
amazing brothers out there. Right? That just waiting
for you to come and just choose your
particular variety. Yes. Yeah. Speak to it, Celeste.
Speak to it. I wanna just say, this
is the other thing too. It's almost like
I'm finding this responsible man that's gonna take
my children. Do you understand how the dynamics
of remarriage is? Like, financially,
Like like, if your father is not supporting
those children, man, you're left to then deal
with that financial responsibility
yourself.
And he's only going to help so much
because it's not his responsibility.
Right? It's still on you. This was something
that was a big thing for me. Like,
working this out, having to work to support
my children's
financial needs and that because
they were not those needs were not being
met. Because let's face it, many of us,
the father disappears.
And so the second thing is this idea
that the the and I'm seeing good stepfathers.
I have seen it with my own eyes,
but end of the day it's still not
their father. And they can be as great
to their their stepchildren and they can show
up their stepchildren, they can love their stepchildren,
but they're still not their father. And I'm
and and I'm not saying this I'm not
saying this, like, I I'm married to a
step father. My my brother's a stepfather. I
I know a lot of stepfathers.
It's just children
children and children attach, martial art. They have
they can build a very secure attachment to
someone that isn't their biological parent. I'm not
and I'm definitely
valuing that.
But I'm saying if you come into a
marriage kind of thinking that this person's going
to father your children
a certain way. They may not bother your
children the way you want it or the
way that they used to. So kids have
to go through a whole transition in itself
as well. And I and I know most
people don't walk out of a marriage wanting
to walk out of marriage, but we definitely
in the empowerment woman world where you have
so many choices,
this can impact your thinking. And I I'm
seeing an increase in divorce thinking
where, you know, when things are getting challenging,
or people are getting rough or things are
hard, let's have some divorce thinking and that
may be the solution.
But the divorce thinking
is influenced
by the input that you're putting into your
mind that is affecting us and our families,
the security of our families. You know? Yeah.
Don't think that families and the secure
nuclear thriving family is something that
is the agenda in the world right now.
That is not what they want. No. It's
And so as an ummah, our ummah is
made up of families. And so this is
something to tread I had I had some
sisters that said to me,
oh, I just outgrew him.
I get that.
Oh, no. No. No.
That one there.
That is I was like, we're not getting
there. A trigger. Oh my God. I, that
is just, yeah.
Yeah. I'm not gonna, I'm just, you speak.
You speak. You say I'm gonna keep quiet.
And it's like, okay.
You outgrew him. I get it. We are
into intellectual beings. We
we but it's like you came into a
contract of marriage
with these children.
These children haven't outgrown him. And so it
is a big, big change. It takes a
big step. Now I'm not saying don't go
through divorce if there is legitimate reasons for
it. But I'm saying tread very carefully. Don't
get stuck in that divorce thinking of I
have a lot of choice and it's gonna
be like this and it's gonna be the
bet better
when a lot of the time,
so many women I know regret
or wish they had done more or
are really in a difficult situation, the co
parenting situation where he's remarried or she's remarried
and they've moved on. It's the children that
many of them feel like
they are basketballs between 2 2 homes or
they feel very disconnected or they have a
mean, you know, step parent or their mother
or father's
emotionally drained.
And I'm and and I suppose it comes
back to if if we the first marriage
is built properly,
If you don't have a strong legitimate reason,
really pause
and check-in that some of that thinking that
you're having may not be supportive to you
and your children, even though it may perceive
to be that way in that in that
moment.
So I just feel like we're moving to
a place
that is a bit scary because we're not
putting,
and I'm and I I'm saying and our
children, mashallah, can thrive in a second marriage.
They can thrive with a stepparent. They can,
mushallah, they can move. But there is a
big transition and that transition can be traumatic.
And so really checking in with yourself, getting
to know yourself, and those expectations sometimes that
you might have in that marriage where you're
exiting out or you want that divorce thinking
and it's not based on abuse,
it's just based on basically I've I've outgrown
him. Really check-in what's the expectations you're having
of him because no one is meant to
give us our give us our happiness or
no one's meant to give us our joy.
We're meant to create that within ourselves. It's
true true people, you know, connect in that
way. So I don't know if I'm I'm
relaying what I'm trying to say here, but
I have this
fear, I suppose. Yeah. There's this fear coming
up that so many women exit
and a few years down the track, and
they're they're starting to the reality hits.
The reality hits. And when you get told
I have so his sisters get told, oh,
I don't wanna marry me because I have
kids. And and the thing is, this is
what we're dealing with too.
Men have also been given this kind of
negative connotation
around
remarrying us a a single
woman. My husband, when he first proposed and
he went to the 1st check he went
to, and he said, look, can you organize
my knicker? He's like, no. Don't marry. Don't
marry. Why are you marrying a a single
mother? He pretty much tried to talk him
out of it.
And my husband was shocked and he kinda
came back and he didn't tell me until
what long time after.
And then, the second check went and Humble
went fine. But there are people that have
that view. It's like, no. Don't don't put
yourself into trouble. Don't make it hard for
yourself. Right? So it's it's
this this
it's not an easy journey, I suppose. And
and getting that remarriage is not easy. If
you don't know yourself and you're working through
your inner wounds and your inner stuff, that
marriage is hard. It's hard work because you
have children there and you have his needs
and his huck and your children have huck
and rights and you need you have huck
and rights. So it's a it's a very
fragile,
vulnerable situation for everyone involved.
I suppose tread carefully because if that person
doesn't have a lot of taqwa,
it's going to be even harder
to reclaim what you want because nothing ever
looks exactly the same. It'll never be the
same.
And so everyone is different. Everyone has different
perceptions, different feelings, different whatever way that they
bring in. And to create
that healthy win win situation
requires compromise, and compromise means letting go of
some expectations.
100%.
No. No. No. You've hit the nail
on the head repeatedly.
SubhanAllah,
as you're talking,
I'm feeling what you're saying because
really, as you said, there's a divorce thinking.
And subhanAllah, as I've said before,
I've been
guilty of this, right? Of,
you know, asking for a divorce and then
celebrating
the fact that I'm free. I,
you know, people know I've mentioned this on
my channel. I deleted the,
I took the stuff down from the internet
after I came to the stage where I
was like, hold on a minute.
That moment of euphoria
that maybe many women feel right after the
after they are set free, You know, even
if it wasn't divorce, you know, like, you
know, abusive
or anything like that. A moment of kind
of euphoria afterwards where I'm free of him,
you know, Alhamdulillah, I'm free of him because
at the end of the day, dealing with
human beings is tough. Just just call it
what it is, you know? It's a lot
of relations. All it is. Yeah. Exactly. Even
if it all it is is that he
likes his eggs sunny side up. Right? You
don't have to worry about that anymore. You
don't have to worry about how he likes
his eggs, how he likes his laundry, about
him coming home at this time. The kids
Yeah. Know the sleepy time. You don't have
to deal with the headache of him and
his mom. And all so that's what you're
thinking. Right? You're free. Yeah. But
that freedom,
it comes at a price.
And Definitely. Not only do you pay the
price,
but as you said, your children pay the
price.
He pays the price.
Often your family pays the price. His family
pays the price. It's not just, you know,
you being free. Like you said, the children
hadn't outgrown him.
The grandparents probably hadn't outgrown either their grandchildren
or even
you, you know, or even your parents, because
my father, he mourns the loss of his
son-in-law, you know, like that was hard for
him because he had built a relationship.
And I'm not even going to talk about
my children
because that's something that is damaged that I
cannot undo and I cannot take it back
and I can't
go through that for them.
So really when sisters, I'm hoping that inshallah
you're listening to this. And if you are
in a space, as you're saying Khadija,
where you're just in your head, you're fantasizing
about being single, you're fantasizing about divorce, you're
fantasizing about life after him,
Stop doing that
because it's, it's, it's not real. Firstly, it's
just an imagined future
and you are
investing emotion in the wrong place.
Like you said, you're, you're thinking about the
grass that's greener. That's on the other side
of this separation of this divorce and whatever.
It doesn't exist. It's not real. There's nothing
guaranteed about that future. All you know is
what you have right now. And if all
your emotional energy and your hopes and your
dreams are invested in an imagined future when
you finally left this guy,
And and may I just say
left him
so that either you've kicked him out of
the house and now he has to either
go back to his parents' house or find
some flat or room to rent somewhere and
live on his own again, after 10 years
of being with his children and his wife
every day, you know, we never think about
that side. You know what I mean? Like,
all these guys who are just the wife's
like
And then we even restrict him from having
access to his children.
That whole scenario. Exactly. So Yeah. Exactly. It's
true. SubhanAllah, let's let's, you know, let's call
it what it is. So so, you know,
you're investing all that emotional energy in this
imagined future after you've gotten rid of the
sky
instead of investing it in what you have
right now, which is a commitment and a
family and a job to do.
And you need to get your head in
this game, not that game. Because that game
doesn't exist. When I've seen sisters online nowadays,
it's so funny, isn't it? The pendulum. I
think Umtal mentioned this in one of our
marriage conversations where she said, like, at one
point,
divorce was, as you say, the dirty word.
Right? You you would never ever ask for
a divorce. And if you did, you were
a complete pariah. You'd never get remarried. It
was, it was extreme.
Nothing like the time of the prophet sallallahu
alaihi wasallam.
Now we're in a space where
getting divorced and, or being a divorcee is
almost like a badge of honor.
And it's something that is like, it's no
big deal. And we're asking for people to
destigmatize
it and just accept
a divorcee is no different to an unmarried.
And I'm sorry,
it may make you feel nice to say
that, but it's not true.
It's just not true. You know? Yes. You
have been through, and it's the same with
a man, a man who's been married and
divorced
is different from a man who's never been
married. Some good things and some bad things.
Right?
But the reality is that if you've been
through a particular situation,
you are not the same as somebody who
hasn't been through that situation.
And this, this, this thing, and again, sisters
of, are doing, I guess what women in
general in society are doing where they're conflating
their self worth
and their value as a human being with
their value as a wife.
2 are not the same.
Right? Yes. Yeah. Some people stay in that
that relationship. It's like, well, at least I'm
still a wife. You know, it's it's that
part. If you can legitimately
walk out of a marriage
knowing in your heart you did everything possible
to keep this marriage intact,
and you have very good illegitimate reason in
your intuition, your heart, you can walk away,
then then that's the possibility. Whether it's based
on abuse or whatever that legitimate reason is.
But if you will know in in your
intuition,
there won't be any guilt.
You know of course, if there's a trauma
bonding, you may feel guilty leaving that person.
But in general,
marriage is sacrifice.
In any marriage, there is a levels of
sacrifice involved. It's never the peachy couple that
looks so beautiful and cute on,
you know, out there on on the image.
On the ground? They argue
they're arguing.
They are if anything, they probably have more
anxiety and stress because they need to do
more selfies. But it's like with more more
videos together, whatever.
So it's like the real reality is every
marriage has sacrifices. Every marriage goes through pains.
I can definitely tell you that. Someone that's
remarried, first two years was, like, really difficult.
It was very, very difficult.
And I can definitely tell you the worst
experience ever in my whole life
is the moment I had to sit down
with 2 of my sons and say, your
father and your mother are not living together
ever again.
And I remember that moment broke me. Like,
that the reaction of 2 of my sons
at that time,
you know, the reality was getting clearer over
that time. But to sit and actually tell
your child, that was probably the worst moment
in my whole life to be able to
say that's it. It's not because that's their
picture. Their world is destroyed. That reality is
taken away from them. And so we have
to be hyper vigilant. We have to check
into our thinking.
A lot of the thoughts that we're having
is from the information that we're absorbing. But
is that information really
supporting you? Is it helpful? Point.
Yeah. And we see we see the gimmick.
We see them. They're making fun of, the
woman in the kitchen making biryani. We've see
these things that, like, kind of,
the traditional
methods of being a wife or mother is
down looked down upon. But the traditional
aspects of being a wife or mother are
the things that actually, if you,
believe it or not, bring joy.
You know, that's sitting and having a cup
of tea with your husband or those little
things that bring joy may all protect all
our marriages and help us in this time
where there's so much n b and so
much comparison and so much there's evil, you
know,
is that just those little things. Those little
things make up the marriage. Those are things
that are and if you if that's been
lost, check-in with yourself
and see what can you do to reunite
that, to to to to,
water your own green grass before you think
of an exit plan. And I'm I'm saying
this in general. I'm not talking to women
who are going through constant abuse. I completely
understand and and validate that you will need
to exit eventually.
I'm gonna protect you and help you out,
man and female, but, obviously, female more. But,
I suppose being more aware of where
with Taqwa and Ihsan asking Allah, what would
what would Allah want from me in this
situation? Really going intuitively going, checking in with
your inner wisdom, and seeking Allah's help and
support. Because Allah says he's sufficient for you.
He's sufficient for you. You you you you
you will
yeah. He's sufficient for you. So there's certain
narratives that you may be absorbing, that you're
not even aware, that are hurting your marriage
or hurting
your your image as a single mother or
hurting the the beliefs that you're holding on
to. There's narratives and beliefs that we're absorbing
that we're not even conscious
I.
Yeah. I think you've given us so much
food for thought.
I'm Khadija. Thank so much. Does that color?
And, you know, like I said, you hit
the nail on the head, like repeatedly,
but seriously, may Allah guide us, may Allah
protect us,
May Allah allow us to build, you know,
solid
connected homes for our children for the next
generation to come out of.
But before we
how can people find you online?
You can
see me on Instagram, Kharija Alkadur.
I'm all things thriving family, 5 thriving relationships,
and and us Muslims,
thriving within ourselves, standing up,
empowered together inshallah,
in a way that is pleasing to Allah
inshallah. So you can find me on Facebook
or you can find me on Instagram as
under Kharija Akhudu inshallah.
And, please, anything I've said wrong is still
from my own perception. It's from my own
thinking, and I may may not have said
something that is pleasing to LaMelo to protect
me from saying anything that isn't pleasing to
him. But I hope that you understand the
message that this is deep. This is deeper
than we think, And so we have to
tread more carefully because we're accountable on the
day of judgement. It's a manat. Our children
are manat. You know, the person that we're
married to, their heart is in a manat
as well. So be careful how you're interacting
with that person. Because Oleg, it forbids oppression.
It forbids any kind of you know, he
bid forbids oppression even on yourself. So really
think about and expectations can be oppressive.
Remember that too. Expectations can also be oppressive
because
you're showing you're
projecting something that may not be
maybe an illusion. It may not be helpful
or supportive. So really checking in with yourself,
whatever decision that you decide to do.
I love
it.
Sister Khadijah, thank you so much.
And for those of you who are watching,
thank you so much for walking with us.
Jazakam
Allahu Haydram. I hope that you got something
out of the content. So leave your comments
below, make sure that you smash that like
button and
wa salaam.