Munir Ahmed – Session 52 Renegades & Apostasy
AI: Summary ©
The transcript discusses the history and meaning behind the Hadith, including the use of words like "has" and "has" to differentiate between two emotions. The speakers also touch on the history of the Hadith and the use of negative language in court proceedings. The segment provides examples of people changing their religion and causing harm, including the history of the Mahara system and the use of force. The speakers also discuss the importance of leaving Islam and not living in a Muslim state for political reasons.
AI: Summary ©
Alameen
wa sallahu wa salam ala Astra MBI will more serene la early he was savvy here's my in my bad
are you
a Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah?
When so Allah Allah, Taco Bell Mina, we are filling the Aruba now you can see this Allahu betiton interfere with this Converse here early in the Tawakkol when you lay him mercy, well I follow Allah Quwata illa biLlah Indology Levine praise bitwala Lord, the world's Eastern blessings on his prophet muhammad sallallahu alayhi salam after St. SLUBs your brother and sisters, we ask Allah to accept from us and to forgive us to be merciful upon us to give us useful understanding and knowledge which is beneficial to us and give us wide sustenance and to honor Allah we are utterly dependent unto Him is our goal on return. There is no power mighty except that of Allah.
The last part of this hadith that we've been contemplating on Hadith number 14 in Norway's are buying and they've never sold Radi Allahu Allah, Allah, Allah Rasool Ullah sallallahu alayhi salam Lai Hilda Murray in Muslim in in La Banda Celeste, Celeste, and fables early when NIFS would be neffs were technically Dini Hill mfah Recall el tema, will Buhari or Muslim or Muslim.
That's the Hadith with two reminders from them, so dragula are saying that the Messenger of Allah Azza wa sallam said it is not lawful to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three situations.
The married person committing adultery life for a life both those we go into in detail with 30 with Tarik palatini Hill methodical Gemma and the one leaving his or her Deen separating from the GEMA. That second part of the last part is very important separating from the Jama
imam or tofi, and doesn't really have anything extra to say aside from what even register says even though you have came after Imam bofi to do the exposition of the Hadith, or just as I've said many times before, so even run to say says similar to what Mr. Duffy said. He said the majority of the Alama of the mullah hate and otherwise are agreed that this last part of leaving the Deen means becoming more or apostate or Renegade. The idea is that a believer leaving Islam
shouldn't be killed according to majority of the classical scholars opinion.
Then beyond that, he said the only difference was the hunter fee and Abu Hanifa.
They said in prison to give transfer Tober because it means taking a life and if they don't do tobacco, then they come to the same conclusion
of killing aborted or one who reneges that Islam changes.
Abu Hanifa The only difference in the case of a woman and said that the same killing is not for a woman only for a male.
Why he said that and his two famous students are of the same opinion. They linked it with the issue of which is interesting actually.
And interesting the link with the idea of war in warfare they said the prophesy solemn only if I said forbade us from killing women. We're gonna generally know they're not involved in the warfare, you know? So that's where he took the idea from. And he said that this had these
the Hadith to do with warfare comes together with the Hadith to do with the killing of the woman
effect and therefore it means that there is taxies exception for the woman and only the males shall be killed as male fighters are killed generally he said he argues women don't get involved in fighting etc
so so that's
the things that it will Reginald mentioned together with the famous Hadith all glammed Abbas Radi Allahu Allahu Allah, which is in Bahari in the science family and it is authentic from the Messenger of Allah so Allah Islam will come to deal with it in a short while in which he caught semester of Allah some say min bed della Deena who fought to whoever changes that Diem then kill them or kill him or her and we need to understand that
but that's what even read your quote and what the Alana and the scholars will come to the conclusion this is where the combine this hadith of the lemony Masood and that one of the lambda Abbas saying Whoever changes their Deen killed them with this one. Okay, full stop. So that's why they come to me more time is to be killed the apostate is to be killed one who leaves the religion of Islam.
Now, something interesting, though, it's not a new idea that even Rajat mentioned that in regards to this hadith that we're contemplating on, he says fat in Pale if it is said if it is said meaning some have claimed even in his time that What about the Hadith Which Imam necessary, similar Hadith to this puts it in his collection here, and I'll mention it in a minute.
And also, I Googled puts in his collection as well from among workmen in eyeshadow gala or
using those ahadeeth What if somebody said the meaning here is not just somebody leaving their religion but somebody who leaves their religion and goes to war, Mahara?
So it's actually
warfare declared to the state. So he's saying a moron.
Min jumpy, banal. Dowell, Mahara. He said, What if somebody claims that? So even though he mentions it, and he mentions that even Roger rejects this opinion, why does he say reject and he says, because the hadith of OMO mock mean if there is still a thing, there's different opinions on it, whether it's authentic to her, or whether it is authentic to a messenger of Allah Islam, whether it's her statement
and this hadith is in Sahih, Muslim
but
even Roger seems to confuse the Hadith in Sahih, Muslim with the one and unnecessary and abou doubt, listen carefully. There is a Hadith mentioned similarly in say, Muslim.
of messenger Hadith, which we're contemplating now of the law of blood numbers to vote. He says there's a similar Hadith and he mentions part of the chain from a movement in Asia
with similar words to have led them assault, right? The same words have done was to basically that hadith is not the same as the one in the Sati and a Moodle, they have different shades. So ever a master must see them all and mixing them all together and says, Well, we can't rely on it because some scholars have already said it is not authentic to the Messenger of Allah. It is a statement other send it he's authentic. He's right. Talking about Hadith and Muslim, and he's mixed it up with the head of Dr. Hadith in Abu Dhabi and the Saudi which are separate.
And obviously wouldn't make any difference anywhere because the words of that one is the same as Abdullah Mossad word, so it doesn't bring up the meaning which is saying is that bringing together leaving the religion and declaring war? Yeah, that only comes from a separate Hadith which is authentic to me and Aisha Tara below Anna undecidable doubt very important to
be clear about this so ever Roger. Makes
rhyme a whole lot mercy, love medicine and makes this mistake he mixes the the athlete together. And therefore he says, well, we can't rely on it. What we can rely on is this hadith our beloved misfold and one of our from a blood bust. Yeah, and therefore the verdict here is just one who
Leave the religion they should be killed as all the olive oil came on the same opinion so he just corroborate their opinion.
He's still missing out from this particular Hadith yet probably saw some same
attack Atari Puli Dini, he didn't stop there the one who leaves his his or her name, but something very much important. alpha equal to Gemma and who separate from the GEMA what is the Java it means the society
it means the Muslim community society. Yeah, so if you have a state, it means separating, leaving the not just changing the religion or the methodical little Gemma or separating from it is in their invasion treason of going against them and fits also with similarly And now listen to the hadith of a woman in Aisha parada Lavon, which is in Abu Dhabi, and the say which is authentic to her on the same topic, which sheds more light in this last category especially
that police
Yeah,
that's the same miss and I shut up and Rasul Allah salAllahu Alaihe Salam. So she says that the Messenger of Allah Allah Salam, st called La Yehuda, Montgomery muslimin starts the same as uploading bassoons Hadees that he's not
allowed.
not permitted smell that spilled the blood of a Muslim person in love via Allah, except that's the last facade accepting three cases. Yeah. So zani Moxon married person committing adultery, your job as stoned or Rachel Tatanagar Julian or person killing a person what can be done on purpose you need first degree murder for your pearl and that person is killed? That's probably one of the possibilities isn't it as explanation of those details I've given you already anyway. All right, Julian Yahoo. Jumia Islam or a person going out of Islam your heart Ebola? Yeah, declaring war Allah as soldier war rasool Allah and His messenger for Yorkdale I'll use lab Oh young found
that person is either kill. Yeah, remember even fun one. Personal kills another person that is options here
of killing. Same with this person who declares war after leaving Osama Allah and His messenger. They're either killed for your battle or you slept or crucified or your family will add on their banished from the land. Man is on the line, not the worst choice given in this case. And this here this this words from overwhelming an iceberg. Alana actually clarifies for you I'll methodical Java, the one who separates from the Jamara what have they done, declared war on Allah and His messenger. Yeah, aside from leaving Islam, so it's not just leaving Islam, which is very important and gives us clarification of this hadith. Abdullah Abdullah no Sudan cannot be ignored. And this is in as I
said, in Hadith unnecessary.
And he's also mentioned
in Apple gold,
as well, similarly
in that word, from on domain as well, once you mentioned the last case, you guys are Nigel Farage, Yamahai bomdila, he was solely a person who goes out declaring war on Allah and His messenger.
Here, she doesn't even mention from the Messenger of Allah, Allah Salam about leaving Islam.
But that's fine. You can put that in as well, because it's extra from the other attendees. Here it mentions person declaring, going out declaring war and Allah in Messenger and for that person, they either killed or crucified or banished from the land. Yeah, that's enough about that's also authentic battery.
Okay, so
with the grid, it's a respective and Rajab, I would disagree with him on his conclusion, but what I like about it that he mentions the possibility, and it must have been in the possibility of some Alama as my friend to mention it. He's not basically from the public, but he himself rejects that opinion, that there is a company
As of leaving Islam and declaring war
against the lungs basically means against the state actually in this situation.
So that's
now this issue of
declaring war message and the issue of either being killed or crucified or banished from the lenders option is actually linked. And just the words are mentioned from the Quran itself.
And this Marhaba is this taken by the Allah MA from the Quran.
And its application in the Hadith, which I'm going to come to as well.
It can be kicked in generally as declaring war against the state. But more specifically, also where it was used is in a similar sense, actually,
from the Hadith, and we'll come to that in a minute. The Quran says in surah Allah that so number five verse 33, in
will you Haribo, not Allah How are US hula? Who is our field our will be first?
Yes, I will never feel I will be faster than your brother who will you sell Lebu how to add more.
To add more until you have Minsky laughing how
foamy
radica humare zoom fifth duniya Well, I want to feel fear on the other one of the those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and go out in the land causing spreading mischief facade. Indeed, their competencies that they either be put to death or be crucified or have their hands and feet cut off from opposite sides, or be banished from the land, such shall be their degradation of humiliation in this world, and a mighty punishment lies in store for them in the world to come. This idea was revealed
in the situation of
the story of
some people of Oracle or Reina, as is reported in authentic ahaadeeth most famous is from Ennis
that
about a people came to Medina and submitted embraced Islam at the hands of the Prophet SAW Islam from open on other tribes.
And these people when they were in Medina fell ill and as mentioned
to us, they want us to be atmosphere of Medina when they fell ill that took back complaint of falling out to the Messenger of Allah want to do the Prophet SAW slim said, This shepherd of ours was looking after the camels of the state of Medina, go with this Shepherd and drink the milk and the urine of the camels under his under his watch. Yeah, as medicinal purposes, which is what they did for some time, and they got better. Yeah. So you'll notice they're sorry, they got better. Once they got better. They killed the shepherd. The Muslim Shepherd probably started putting in charge and ran off with some of the camels of the of the state. So the Prophet saw some sent a party after
them. And they were caught up with them because of the heinous crime, okay, this I was revealed in relation to them. And they were they had their hands and feet chopped off at opposite ends. They had their eyes gowns down and they were killed and left. Well do a left to then die in the in the desert feet. So Allah subhanaw taala in this regard, reveal this idea. Yeah, actually, because of what they did Allah subhanaw taala give the authority of doing one or the other with them, not everything together. And it mentions nothing about gouging the eyes out. So Allah was saying this is the punishment for such people what they've actually done. Some people limited it to highway robbery,
but actually it's wider than that. It's not and they use that for highway robbery is well Mendiola came with the idea of people lying in ambush for people going on route and then ambushing people threatening and with the lives still good
Words are killing some people. Yeah, they put them under this category, that their punishment can be either of these things. They can even just be banished from the land which can mean the nowadays term be put in prison. Yeah, but the state has a right from the Quran in this situation and in Islamic State to do any of them to give them the death penalty to have them crucified to have the
hands or feet cut from opposite sides or to be banished depends on it's been given the choice has been given to the state with time and place having an effect on impact on that. Now, however, it's also as it's mentioned by
ISIS, Hadith from the prophets, Arsalan, it can be some wider meaning than that. Yeah, these people haven't just done highway robbery, they've actually done treason against the very state which they submitted to him became citizens do and when I say looked after the kill the the minister, you could say somebody who was responsible for looking after those camels that belong to the state, and then I'd run against they run off so that treason
can have the meaning of that punishment. Okay. Now
that's to give you the story of these people with linked with their chronic Aya
there is another narration which is in Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari
which is also similar to the narration that we're talking about, of the London was sold from a novice or by 14 Hadith and ISIS Hadith which I mentioned, which gives more clarity. And in line with that, there's another Hadith which supports the meaning from ISIS have effectively or more meaning it says that these if you're still with me, I say that he's the one that mentioned specifically about not just leaving Islam, but declaring war and Allah and His messenger. So now we come to another Hadith which is from Abu Caleb, one of the Sahaba at the time of Omar bin Abdulaziz. Yeah, he reports this Hadith from the Messenger of Allah it says, In this hadith in Sahih Bukhari it's a
long Hadith and I just want to take the relevant part from it. In this long had beef, I will playlab he says, in the company in the presence of Omar bin Abdulaziz was Khalifa at the time the second Omer, he says,
quote, he said, I said for wala he'll Nakata Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi salam to buy Allah the Mercy of Allah didn't give the death penalty to anyone except in three situations or three cases. And he mentioned that the Life for life and the adultery of a married person. And then he says, The third category, what does he say? All right, Julian Hara law how Rasulullah or a person declaring war against Allah and His Messenger what the annual Islam while doing it means becoming more threat, while relegating or
while
leaving Islam or becoming an apostate of Islam. So notice as he mentions it, just similar to words to from the Messenger of Allah, Allah Salam, as on the morning, Aisha Ravi Alana mensen, from the Messenger of Allah some, so that gives more strength. And this study is actually
even richer fails to mention which support certainly is almost more
or giving greater clarity. Okay, no.
The issue is a bit more than that, because there's work to understand this, at least.
This or these and Hadith are all mobile in isochronal rendre. And unless you have a problem because the Hadith or mobile mini Ayesha Magalona clarifies for what actually is to do with warfare and treason against the state. Yeah, which is violent treatment against the state. Yeah, declaring war against a lot of the messenger is not somebody just saying I don't believe in Islam anymore. It's not as simple as that. That's clarified from the studies. But Allah use another famous of these, which I mentioned earlier on from Buhari and recite Tirmidhi, from Abdullah Abbas, and we need to combine bring that hadith because that at least
when you look at it, superficially, apparently, it's just sounds. How is this possible? Yeah, but the hadith is authentic. So we need to understand its meaning. Okay, so let me mention this hadith.
From the Abbas raviolo anima what does he say he says
this studies outlet Abbas said is in Buhari and the science committee.
So
sorry, all over the place with that
and it was specially mentioned in regards to when
Imam
Khalifa was Ali radula one, he was a Khalifa in the fourth Khalifa in his time this is specifically mentioned that some people they called Zainab Depop were not that that means those who become a prospects actually they don't follow Islam they've corrupted Islam and and also
in other places it mentioned
Yeah, that
there were people who became apostates of Islam another and that Khalid Abdullah and he ordered them to be burnt alive. That's their punishment. Ali is the state the government he burned to live these people in some reports mentions they became a post that's how the corrupted Islam they believed some of them in Abu Dhabi alone and being God.
Allah Allah, Allah he's some of them are called in that sense. And so they're corrupted and Ali told him to stop. So Ali represents the state. Yeah, that stop corrupting the religion and spreading mischief in the land through through that corruption
and then because they dissipate early burn them now when he burned them this information came up the London bus study allowed Uber who said no, come to Anna lamb or eco home. If it was me, I wouldn't have learned them. Why. Leon when the BSL Allahu alayhi wa salam upon because the messenger of allah sallallahu sallam said love to add the movie Allah Billa do not give the punishment with the punishment of Allah. In other words don't give punishment by burning people that's only left to Allah to ever do. Wala Patel to whom I would have killed them cannot fall in the beasts on the lesson now reports here the heavy so equals to at least a blunderbuss here yeah he says I wouldn't
have killed them because profits maximum Allah Some don't burn don't punish with the punishment of Allah which is burning and I would have killed them because some extra of Allah saw some he said man but the Latina who to whoever changes that Dean then kill that person. Yeah so this is reported in various places and I've already sent on it is authentic
now so how do we understand when we bring this obese yoga mat bring classical scholars bring this hadith specifically together with the hadith of dilemmas old and say oh look, it just means changing the religion. So how
do we understand the service if it is authentic man, but the Latino? Who fuck blue? Firstly,
if that's the meaning, and whoever changes our religion, kill them. It doesn't clarify training from which religion to work, then then it is possible to understand from the Hadith clearly, that if somebody actually weirdly enough, if somebody changes from an Asus to become Muslim, they've changed their religion, men, but the Latina who blew change the religion kill them, they should be killed. If somebody changed from a Christian to a Jew or Jew to a Christian. Yeah, or a Christian to Muslim or a Hindu to a secret sequence, all of them are changing religions. So all of these people should be killed according to the apparent meaning of this study is true, because that's what he said. He
didn't say men who ever changed their religion. Yeah. From Islam to something else. There's no nothing in the words. No single narration has any details like that. So if you were telling
The current meaning of the Hadith it seems nonsensical
nonsense if there is room for therefore interpreted doing interpretation of it to mean only from Islam something else there must be room for interpreting in other ways as well. And that's what we have to look at. Now first thing
is to
understand about read the or becoming more Trent and that is leaving Islam. Yeah. To become a Catholic
because many Allah ma majority Allah mark from classical times there on the opinion that the punishment for an apostate will just leave this lab declares that they are not Muslim any more is the death penalty. Yeah.
with the greatest respect to them, I disagree and I'm going to give some of the reasons why.
Yeah, that it is the death penalty they're talking about in Islamic State Of course not for people to willy nilly go out and do what they want with people. None of them say that.
And when after analysis is like 100 Punishment meaning is clearly being made clear from Allah and His messenger that that's the punishment. So the huddled actually
then you attacks Immanuel God, and if we look at the Quran, what it has to say about a reader or people changing from Islam to
there's a few ideas and we'll see what they say does it mention about an earthly punishment anyway? First Allah smart Allah says
in surah baqarah verse 217.
Well, maybe I didn't mean to. Dini, he
fell. Well who works for you home? Fabula
Lu V, don't ya? Well?
What hula Eagles have your own fee for you to whoever Have you reverts renegades. So Renee eggs from her religion may I'm Dini he and dies while he is a disbeliever for those that deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the Companions of the Fire they will abide that in forever and ever. We expect that obviously. Yeah.
Their punishment is a five there's no mention of anything. punishment in this world for them and then against surah Allah that was 54 Allah subhanaw taala says, Yeah, are you will Xena Umang the mu beanie if so far yeah. T will be home for Sophia. Who will be owning your home or your daughter who will let him I'll move meaning he's exerting
Isaac linalyl care theory now Yuja he knew that he's really he will for food Allah will metal
while you're for foreigner no matter
him Valley get home. Who are you t Nima
wala who was on rally? Or you will believe
whoever
becomes a renegade from his or her religion. Yeah, then know that Allah will bring forth sunnah people who will love who he loves and who loves him, humble towards the believers and saw stone towards the disbelievers striving in the way of Allah and fearing not the blame of any blamer such as the Grace of Allah, which He gives bestows on to whom He wills. Allah is all embracing and all knowing here again, there's no mention of after saying those who really relegate from their religion, but they're going to the punishment is this and that had punishment, nothing at all. Yeah, that's what they're saying, Bring out other people who will He loves them, they love him. Then in
another verse in Surah, four on the service one face and the last one says in Medina, who from Mecca who from a man who from Mecca, who so much as the Dooku from Lamia, Cooney, la Julio Fetullah home, while Alia the home sebelah best cereal Munna, PHAP, Nabi and Ella whom leave
Talking about Manasa being at the time of their profits are some of the time. Surely those who believe, then disbelieve become tougher than they believe, then they become caffeine again. And then they increase
in the coffer in their rejection and disbelief. Yeah.
There will be no forgiveness for them. And there'll be no guidance and for the right in the right way, for such people give the tidings to these hypocrites, that for them is a painful punishment and the painful punishment is in the hereafter. Again.
If the penalty for after belief was guessed, after they become disbeliever, then there's no need for Allah Smaadahl to repeat that they believe and disbelieve again, if Allah says, surely was abuse, yeah, believed and then the disbelief will that be the end of it? If the penalty was no need for Allah then to say that they believed again because there would have been all been finished? Yeah, and then the disbelieved again. Yeah. So Allah SmartLab the fact that he mentioned rely that shows you that there's no earthly punishment
that fits with this idea anyway. Added to that. Allah subhanaw taala makes it clear in the Quran.
The author the IANA most luminal void, there is no compulsion in religion in Diem in the way you follow. Indeed, right guidance has been made clear from error.
And then Allah smartglasses for me x little bit ball will be where your MYM been. He forgot the stem saga been on what Phil was call la fille sama? Allah who sent me on early so whoever now rejects falsity all false god gods and falsity and corruption and believe and he or she believes in Allah they have indeed taken hold all the grass which is firm
Yeah, which will never break slowly Allah is all hearing and all knowing no composure religion in other words, you have that's the whole time trial and test isn't it? If you are under death threat made to remain Muslim. What kind of Islam will that be? You're only staying going there are superficially behaving Yeah, as a Muslim because otherwise you're going to be put to death by the state.
So you really are nifty so you're aware of it
just hiding because of fear that your belief has no value before Allah. Yeah. So this is not this whole perception is wrong unless like I said, Well Larry all about confirming calm ComCare fugu, I mean,
Allah will be mad that we will never see it is you know, created you all. And from amongst you, there are those who disbelievers and those who are believers because the choice has been given to you like crafted Deen. Quran is saying it. Surely Allah and Allah is all fully,
fully sees all that you are doing. Then Allah says in surah, number 10. So the URIs, Allah Allah will show Rob Buccola
fill out equal. Jeremy
took me home, sir had too many. And if Allah be awarded will, yeah. All those on the Earth would have believed all together. Yeah, if Allah will be would have made everybody believers, but that wasn't his plan. If you don't want to force people to be believers, then Allah says, Yeah.
Would you or Muhammad stoking the process? And would you then force people until they're believers? Would you compel them? Look what the Quran is saying? Was grant not saying go around forcing people are questioning that idea. Would you then go around forcing people until they become believers Muhammad? In other words, he no don't do that.
No.
So that has to be kept. This is the chronic all that is the very foundation of what we must build the rest of understanding from these Hadith on you can't just ignore all that. And because otherwise you when you come with the Hadith, whoever changed our religion, kill them which is authentic, then he comes in actual contradiction and against the clear verses of the Quran
and the principles of what Islam
is about not a religion of compulsion, and false belief otherwise by the sword killed No wonder the orientalists and disbelievers got these impressions because we gave them these impressions in our rankings and conclusions. Yeah.
We give them the impressions from the stuff I've said to you before on the idea of the only disbeliever is either somebody subdued under the state of the mean, or the one who's killed unless they embrace Islam otherwise they don't exist. Many scholars seem to have come with this
judgment error with that idea. And now add to that anybody who changed our lives and killed them so it's all about no wonder we give the idea of killing, killing, killing and subjugation as it were, but that's not that's not what Islam and that's not the Quranic message at all. So keeping that running foundation and message in mind that we understand fine understand what this is, these ahaadeeth are saying, we are already helped by the versions of the Hadith from Alka lava and Buhari and
so these words are mentioned before which clarifies this idea that we're dealing with at the moment 14
being men but Bella Dena who whoever changes their religion that Dean actually is an interesting word which
which can have many meanings. Dean can mean a way
away a religion aware to follow lacantina camellia Deen to you to you your way or religion to me mine as Allah says the Quran Deen can also mean al hokum yeah law. Yeah. Oh commandment. Allah says, What are the WHO whom had to aletta Pune
to hula, Hula, hula and fight those who fights you until there is no of corruption or fitna and and the hokum and the commandment and the law is for Allah alone is talking about Islamic society with the Prophet SAW Selim. Yeah, that is, so Dean can mean hokum or commando or law. So I believe one of the meanings of Medina is the land of law, coming from being Medina from being the land of law, as opposed to outside of the city, the land of lawlessness in the in the wild. Yeah. So
Dean can also have the meaning of Danieli for land that once submitted or is humbled to someone else or to something else. So then it has the meaning of also submitting subservience and in this case, in Medina, a city to the state? Yeah, the state. Yeah, the land of law and judgment. So giving submission to that state is giving your Diem to that state to change your Deen means you change your allegiance. Yeah, which fits with the idea of also declaring war and Allah and His messenger from the other Hadith. So when the messenger of Allah Azza wa sallam said, Men dilla Dena, who blew who were rich changes that theme. What it means is not just declaring non religion and when they were
disobeying the state as well so there is a trace element there and causing corruption
is the changes that lead us
which becomes much more serious comes the issue of treason. That's how I understand the hadith of Macbeth. Alladhina who fuck whoever changes their allegiance? Yeah, then kill them because they've actually committed treason. And it's interesting. Also, in lying, that,
that
the title of Elon before Ali's kind of Khalifa, we the
Sahaba declared and it is reported, famously the the Lords of butadiene, that Abu Bakr declared
the war no more 13 butadiene, meaning apostates are renegades. But there wasn't one group under this category. There were three categories under this one group. We're Muslims who refuse to pay that card to our bucket for the loved one. But, but they were they didn't they didn't leave Islam. They just refuse to do that thought. Second group with those who didn't want to accept our bucket as a Khalifa. Yeah, they didn't really follow Islam either. The third group actually left Islam and took mosyle Ahmed al Kansa, the liar, the big liar
As the Prophet, all these three groups got together, and they were known as the apostates. The first two groups never left Islam, but their apostasy was to go against the state. So all the group in that sense was Dean. Yeah, they were all guilty of treason, or they're declaring war against the state, which is represented by the Sahaba Abu Bakr at the time. So that's interesting point to understand how, again, it can be understood. So I believe
so Sorry, I lost track of time.
I hope we're alright. What time is it?
Alright, we're all right. It's still okay.
10 to eight.
So,
in summary, if you bring the Hadith together
and I think the the Hadith belaga in Sahih al Bukhari
and I keep mentioning that he felt from the moment I stepped on Atlanta in Muslim and not in Muslim so in the Saudi level doubt, which I mentioned, clarifies this third category, which is mentioned by Abdullah stones, Hadith, in Bukhari Muslim the one we're particularly contemplating on now the third category Yeah, what technically Dini he l methodical Gemma the one who leaves that being allegiance you can say leave Islam as well but Alma follicle Gemma separating from the the the Muslim community or society means going against them going against them. Yeah. Which is clarified by the other deeds, which I mentioned that declaring war on alarm these messenger Yeah, that person, that person can be
killed by the state. Yeah. And includes those who are doing highway robbery and in the against again breaking
the law of the state. Yeah, violent robbery. So that application and then there's a choice of being killed crucified or even badly store in prison so that can imprisonment, or banishment is an option here doesn't have to always be killed either.
Which is interesting, and which is perhaps the reason why Abu Hanifa and the hunger fear had the idea of imprisonment until Toba was done. Although perhaps their inclination is more to do with because giving South kotoba to not become apostate but really this
death penalty is not simply about
leaving Islam not being satisfied. Yeah.
And then having the death penalty put on their head but more to do with treason to the state more to do with violence. Yeah. More to do with going out armed against the state these this is the place where these are Hadith need to be brought together to be understood. Yeah. And therefore that the Latina will fuck blue on its own like that. Yeah, it just goes in conflict with the Quran and the principles of Islam. But when it's brought together with the other at least, and Ali Runkle on what he did, yeah, to some extent, it perhaps puts more flesh on the one makes you understand this difficult Hadith in its right context. And I believe also the the Oliver classic, why they went down
that road because reality is that the only kind of people
in the Muslim world at the time when Islam was strong who would leave Islam Yeah, were either hypocrites who or were always danger to the to the state. Yeah. And others who would go out against the state like Pilates did yeah, Pilates went out. They didn't leave Islam, but in the sense of they went against a wall was declared on them. And there were many were killed by Alexander Ilhan. Yeah, so all Amma classically, I think went down the road of they couldn't imagine anybody who's a Muslim leaving Islam. Yeah. And their idea here leaving Islam was more in line with they could only see somebody who was going to
was committing treason or changing their allegiance or they were in cahoots with the enemy. Perhaps that is the other Yeah, Allahu Allah. That's why I believe that's the other I can give.
I personally
And Allah knows best I'm of the opinion that it is not a HUD punishment, which has been absolutely made clear. As you can see, there's room for interpretation with that hadith anyway.
And so my conclusion would be that
we don't encourage people to leave Islam, obviously, I think only the ignorant May Allah guide them would leave Islam. Anybody who really knows about Islam is truth, rather than some of its corruptions, we believe would never leave Islam but faith of course, there are those who will be believing those who are disbelievers. This is the life of this world. There'll be those who will leave Islam they'll be those who Luminar fix and hypocrite, there will be those who remain kuffaar disbelievers and never come to the guidance, but we pray for the guidance of all as we pray to Allah Subhan Allah to keep us on track to most again to keep us guided right and as we live, may Allah
give us the enlightenment to live by Islam and when we died may give us a Tofik the power and ability to declare from our hearts and tongue a sugar La ilaha illAllah Muhammad Rasul Allah Allah call you have a whatsapp federal law in the whole folder full of Rahim.
Any questions?
Brothers and sisters
tricky. Fairy and Poppy. Yes
that must be
your mic again. Sorry, I
can't hear
anything
unless you have so Sohail here, just while Rhenus fixing his mic, can I just quickly ask Forgive me if I forgot. Forgive me, if I forgot, during the time of fix era, we were talking about the wisdom tribes going against the pledge. And I just wonder whether this at least was around that time. And those tribes I think there were some orders against them if they will break the pledge, and we have to fight. The Prophet said that we have to fight against them. So was it in that context at all?
No. We have nothing to do with when
the cleric I made some was to do with what I mentioned in the story of the people of Oracle who came and lived in a state in Medina. But the idea hadith of
all around this topic of the three categories, we have nothing specific to link to a particular time. No.
Thank you.
Can you hear me a little bit better now? Aliko. A slow boy. Yes, I can hear us. Okay. Well, I'm Daniela.
Nice to see you again. I could just point of clarification, just want to know about the meaning of Mahara, please.
Harada they tended to use it for what the ground mates and the Allama said this is to do with what those people did, for example? Yeah, they went against the state. They stole the animals and they applied it to highway robbery or any violent kind of crime. Where involves killing people or threatening to kill them? Yeah, all that can come under harbor.
Even Even the people going out against their own state can come under Haram is not like normal warfare out there. You understand? Yes.
So it's different from that the criminal activity involving threatened potential killing? Yes. Just Hey, come to take me without without but violent crime in that sense against individuals or against the state? Yes. Okay. Okay, is there a difference between more tired and I think is an Abacha that you mentioned is the now that they they use the as a loose term, but it's similar. It's similar?
Yeah. Now they kind of tend to use it for people who have corrupted the very foundation those who said God, Ali's God. So they sent us another card
that corrupted the very foundations of belief. So is the wealth is another call for them is more to do therefore with corruption of their religion to Oh, I see right direct corruption of their religion as opposed
was
the very foundations of religion where there's no difference of opinion. So corruption therefore, does that Yes. Last one for me. Okay, sorry to take up everybody's time. All right, the
quotation from the Quran mashallah, you mentioned see
that it was Surat Al Baqarah, first of all, and then the first after Surah Baqarah that you mentioned was it from Surah Anissa.
Although the second one I mentioned to do with the apostate was surah number five, verse 54. And the third one was surani service 137.
So, verse 137
Thank you. Okay, that was thank you so much. No problem.
Anybody else?
snuck in Jax moved on Mandossian Ali Salam Rahmatullah. docky. And, you know, with regards to these types of groups of people would be the so called New phenomenal ex Muslims and how they
go about propagating against Islam, would they be categorized within the group that you're talking about?
I never know the starting state, but because how did i Okay, they're not physically fighting. But they will certainly use their words it is certainly a massive
or probably is the wrong word is properly a group and no, I don't have the proper word. Sorry. I'm not clever enough for the right words, but how they propagate all their
whether they be categorized as causing corruption in the land? Yeah.
Yeah, I think
this would be not a clear cut answer. It would be for the state. And it would require
if you had in that weather, the state really saw these people as a threat personnel see them as a threat except for themselves. They only looked for me they look fools to themselves, Islam. My way is these people. I see it more as I mean, I mentioned the issue of the corruption don't buy there's an article Ali's time raise your hand. But that's not necessarily the case of these people worth spreading through the internet. Otherwise, these kinds of vitriol and falsity it's even the state doesn't have to do anything. Yeah, and I believe Islam and its
its principles and its guidance is clear and strong. Like the last part that says like rapid teen kata, kata Jana Gousto. Male advice right guidance has been made clear from that which is deviation so if they want to come out with their victory or deviation even to it, that's right there.
But again, you see be left to the state to decide not meeting the side so there's nothing absolute. Just suck I have the code because I just thought would they be part would would they come under one of them groups that you're discussing about? Benign stuff like I read, I just
been better off calling themselves apostates or ex Muslims.
But there's a whole reason for call it that. They don't can't seem to get rid of the word Muslim from themselves, can they? They don't want to because they're so attached because it gives them a chance to, you know, fire more dirt from our data. But essentially, we call them apostates.
Jack, thank you very much for
your question, sisters
clarification on. I think we've had quite a few sessions on this at least. So many.
Haleakala Salam Rahmatullah. I have a question regarding that was against ex Muslims. Not living in the Muslim state. Let's say they're not living in a Muslim state and they're causing havoc against Islam in other countries. Does a fatwa on the Muslim state? is it applicable to that person living somewhere else? I mean, I mean, Salman Rushdie didn't Rushdi didn't see
that he was not a Muslim anymore. I can't recall that very well. But that's the situation. That's an example I can think of where somebody is not living in a Muslim state, but has a fatwa against them for saying something against Islam.
Yeah, no. It's not a fatwa. It's just opinion. It has no value it these are political issues.
It's a political issue. Salman Rushdie never Yes, he clearly said he wasn't Muslim. He hadn't been Muslim for some time before he even wrote the rubbish he wrote. Okay, so my memories
prime number very well. But what I used him as an example, is a general one, someone who's not living in a Muslim country and causes havoc outside of that state. Can the Muslim country put a foot while on their life to say kill that person because they're not posting? No because they can't do that they have to follow political law. And Muslim country will do that. What if their Muslim country one imam or scholar in a Muslim country puts a fatwa don't use the word fatwa fatwa just means a legal opinion? Meaning they put declared deaths for that first? Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's an insult to the word fatwa to keep using it like that. So so if they if they declare that that person
should be killed and Yalom Thomas, the Muslim state doesn't have to follow it. And I see a restaurant alum who said that
okay, so it's not political. I didn't think it would be applicable. That's political issues.
There's nothing from brands sooner that you give a fuck.
A verdict out. A court can give a ruling in a Muslim country. Yeah. About someone only a court in the end judges which are which are settling.
Not any, you know, no chefs and Alameda masukkan that can give out a verdict like that. Because
but for price, okay, but the courts in a Muslim country can do that to a person who's not living there. That's my point. It doesn't matter who No, no, no, they can't again, I didn't say not living.
I didn't say not living there. They have to be living in the Muslim country. They only have the authority of international law. You can't just send out
sending out people to be killed in other countries or kidnapped. I mean, that's what that's what some states are doing. And they're doing it in hiding and sometimes they expose for it and everybody's up in arms saying this is not right, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm going international law. It's not to do with the religion here. Right right. Yeah, no, that was my understanding. I didn't express it very well. Thank you. No problem
anything else brothers sisters
before we
finish for nothing more in writing suffered, are we missing?
Nothing? Yeah, check. No.
There's a question that sister asked before was sort of one of the other guys just clarify that so.
Okay, Zachman Lucha will be having a long break now. Wish you all well, and I pray that you are really blessed in this most blessed the months that are coming.
And that all of us
increase in Eman and Taqwa and closeness to Allah subhanho wa Taala will give us Tofik. To go grow closer to the Quran and to help us implement it in our lives and lighten our way, forgive us our multitude of sins, we're all sinners, so make Gottfried to the brothers and sisters will have to send a notice and the after eat some time haven't decided which date yet when we start read commenced with a deed number 15.
Anything good that came from the fashions is from Allah alone and any mistakes are all mine. mela SATA. Forgive me and mail Assad. Keepers guide you right? Baraka lofi come
with your permission tougher. Yes, just like a handshake and reward you for listen.
Oracle afek Thank you
everybody.
Brothers and sisters, ciao.