Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari – Detailed Interview Part 3-5
AI: Summary ©
The speaker discusses their past experiences studying in Syria and the UK, including their desire to study in the Middle East and learn about different fruits and vegetables. They also mention their involvement in a private online program and their desire to study in the fall. They share their experiences reciting the Quran and giving money to study in the fall, as well as their experiences traveling to countries in Pakistan, Vietnam, and Yemen. They also mention a former chef named John Furnari who had to leave the country to return to America.
AI: Summary ©
you completed your then the hustles, fulfilled Iftar program in Karachi, which was again, for how many years? Two years? Three years, two years, two years? And then you came back to the UK? And then was this then the start of when you began serving the community? Or did you then ventured out to other places other countries to then seek I know you mentioned you visited Syria, is this where then Syria came into into the picture, if you can speak a bit about that.
So now that's another chapter of my life. So it isn't a decade
after I came back from Karachi, Pakistan, I started teaching a bit here in Leicester in our mother's side, I taught one or two lessons, first two years, classes, some some books.
I remember that I was teaching a health class as well, an early me years or for about half a year or a year. Because I was thinking what to do, should I now just start teaching. I've completed my studies and started deadlifts here.
So I had already started teaching, but then I just suddenly thought, I want to go and study in an Arab world. I want to see something slightly different. There was a friend of mine called Shell Zakir is actually here in the US in Leicester as well. He was studying already in Syria. So what I did was I was going Amara, so I took a ticket via Syria via Damascus, and he was there he said to be here, come I'm here Inshallah, you know, I'll be your host to be my guest.
I think two or three days, I stayed with him, he took me around just to see. And then I went, Amara and after Amara came back to the UK, and then I made my mind up. Now, this was again, my own idea because I wanted to go to Arab world somewhere, again as he came into the consideration into the discussion, but I think I had already made that decision discussion was done before I went to study
in Durham Karachi, so I didn't want to go to Madina Munawwara as well, to study at the champion Islamia.
And Syria was new, it was unheard of specially for those students who studied in the traditional Dr. lune seminaries without dark room very, nobody even knew where Syria was existed, like it was unheard of.
As heard some people heard off, and Madina Munawwara. But Syria was not heard of.
And also maybe it's a very different background. It's different, very different. So
it was unheard of for DOD or Allume. Graduates, especially from for from those who graduate graduates, those Durham graduates, graduates of those dark rooms that are
affiliated to or have the same understanding of the dollar long Dobin Seminary in the Indian subcontinent.
But I thought, I just want to go and just taste and experience something slightly different, a different flavor. Ever had strawberry flavor, vanilla flavor, banana flavor, no different flavors. So I wanted a bit of a different type of flavor. This was maybe like, I don't know, some different type of flavor. I saw the Durham Karachi flavor, Darren berry flavor, this is a different flavor. And again, I would like to thank Allah subhanaw taala. That made the decision. I would like to thank my father as well, because the second two decisions were my own decisions that are in Karachi was my own. And my father, that my father understood as well, it was my decision. But he of course, he
completely accepted and understood because he has ultimate love and respect for Chef Mata doc with money. But Syria was completely new to him as well. He didn't know what happened to Syria to get married, or I'm going to what am I doing? And so what is Syria, doesn't even know which part of the world means somewhere in our world, but who teaches there what's going on? No idea. But I convinced him and not just that he accepted and he agreed, but to me a lot I owed him. Students always ask this, they say how did you How do you fund your cellphone he studied throughout my study, throughout, whether it the study was
on the insistence and the recommendation, or the insistence or the command of my father, or the study was through my own
you know,
intention or my own desire. He always wanted everything. He wasn't like, Okay, this I haven't told you to go and study so okay, you find your own self now in Karachi,
traveling, staying there eating it was very cheap, both places, but Syria as well. Okay, if you want to go there. My father was very strict about spending money on dunya. So I remember like he would never let us spend money or we have no television at home and none of those kinds of things. And on clothes, because when I was growing up, my friends got to know this particular brand and I want it No, you don't wear brown
As we don't waste money on brands, I remember I bought a football t shirt and he cut into pieces. It's like you're not gonna wear football t shirt in those days. Liverpool football, you know t shirt. And he just he took scissors and cut it, I got a friend gave it to me. So those things, he was very strict. But if he came to Dean, any book you want to buy anywhere you want to study, he has the money, no problem, like as much money you want. Even all these books that I got here, gave me all the money to buy all the books when I was leaving, leaving Syria, I'll talk about later, I did a whole like collecting of books. And I just told my father, I need a couple of 1000 pounds, it's
okay, so to send the money, get all your books you want. So any book I needed everything and Syria as well the full funding, because a lot of students who came there, they used to work part time on the side is to teach English in a Islamic in a school or an English Language Center or something like that is very difficult. But hamdulillah May Allah reward him and give him all the rewards for this. I never had to do any of that gave all the money.
So I went to Syria stayed in Syria for two years.
In Syria.
I officially enrolled in an institute, but that was really number one for state purposes, because you can't just go there and not be officially enrolled. Otherwise the government will not allow you and get the visa, you need us proper student visa,
which is
endorsed by UN and accepted by
a recognized Institute there so that you have the Damascus University or you have
the Madden 14 Islami or Germany or b No.
So I enrolled officially at the Mad fatale salami, which is a Institute where people do Ma's and Paige. You know, they do a BAS and Ma's, and it's connected to affiliated to the Azhar University.
But that wasn't my main objective. My main objective was to stay in Syria, learn Arabic attend the private doses. Actually, I've got a letter here I wrote to move to talk with money about Syria that I'm going there or I'm there and he wrote back I've got a reply. He said, masha Allah may Allah bless you, you stay there
whilst there try to seek knowledge from traditional classical scholars, right more so than the university setups, if you can try to go to classical older you know, traditional scholars and attended private drusus and then massage it roses.
I've got a letter is a small one paragraph because all my letters are written to him and move to Rafi and any other there's a few from letters to show some thought I should have gotten my letters here. All the files these all the files have letters at the bottom. So
that was my main objective. Mahathir Islam he I don't know how it is now because now serious like now, it's not like how it is people can't even go there after the war, etc.
But there was somebody Kosha, Osama bin for for who was the main person in charge.
So I used to I
officially enrolled in the MA program, then
the MA program, because the data loan program, I got them to recognize it as an PA.
I took the certificates and I got all my,
you know, shahada certificates from Darren Berry, they did some special ones I wrote to them and they sent them all to me, shahada and this and that all sorts of different documents. And they just said, okay, you know, they took a test exam and you can go on enroll into a ma masters in Islamic studies. So I enrolled in the Masters of Islamic Studies at Alfetta Islamic, that's two years but the third year you have to write a Makala thesis and you have to go Egypt. So I did the two years and I didn't do the third year there as well because I didn't get the official MA You know, certificate I could still because I've got the exams everything done I was thinking I said I thought
to myself, maybe later Later I could just write an article this is in Arabic and send it to us or other gives you masters based on that.
But what I used to do was
down there attend private doses now the private doses mashallah you know, these Syria
private doses with a machete
many are Hanafis many are chauffeurs,
very machete maturity.
You could say very anti I don't like these names and groups but very anti Salafi type as well and Arabs, but it's a very different kind of background, very different flavor.
So I used
to go and attend like for example, there was one che che Abdul Razak Halaby.
shahada reserve Halabi was shareholder shoe a sham like his dish. He was the shape of all the shoe. He was in his late 70s 80s. When I was eight years old, he passed away in 2012. It's 10 years since he passed away. I'm Hola. He was originally from Hollub which is Aleppo, another city, not Damascus. But he's taught and he was the chef he used to teach and have a does in the German Ummah with Ahmed mosque in Damascus. He used to teach history with Doris and ragdoll matar, this is Dr. Mahathir fatawa Shami of Aberdeen used to teach that a great jurist of the Hanafi madhhab, but a very old classical type, very traditional chef, hundreds of Halaby.
So I used to attend some of his lessons. But then one of the things I did was that
in Syria, you had one or two different tools, who would grant students each other permission in memorization of the Quran. So you know, in the subcontinent, we have all these ijazat so like, for example, in Hadith, you read the hill Buhari by a shell who read by someone else read by someone else read by someone else, you've got a chain, it's not going all the way back to normal Buhari. Likewise, all the six books of Hadith. And, you know, maybe some other books as well. But what we don't have in the subcontinent is an ijazah. In Quran Tahfiz of Quran.
It's not common, might be but it's not common. Now I remember as the Quran was nine years of age, young child, but there's no ijazah
this child is off Baraka. So I came to know the shahada, Rosa Halaby gives us each other and not just shuffled Rosa Halabi, there was one or two others as well. And also, there were students coming and they used to recite Quran in different Cara art helps and ask them you could do, you could recite in the 10 that are art and receive each other's intent, but I didn't have time for that. I wasn't really interested in this karate of Ashura and Sabra and all of that kind of thing. So I just said, I want to read some students. So now these two come like these to be different times after fajr. And before the heart and after the heart. So I chose the time just before the heart because I
used to have like an hour before the heart. So I used to go to general or movie in his office, they used to be a line of students 1012.
And you get about 10 minutes to recite by him we did read, I remember he for one week, he just kept on telling me to repeat Surah Fatiha.
Bill, you know, every month and every, you know, one, one, everything. I think one thing I
improved on was my pronunciation of the Arabic language when I studied in Syria. So anyway, it took me over a year. I told him I've already memorized the Quran. He said, No, you can't read more than a page six lines. There was some students who are memorizing and coming. I said, I memorized it. When I was a young child. He said, No, we did read and plus, there's no time. This whole line of people you can't just come and read to us to me.
So anyway, but then I got close to my son, he's taller, I keep me and he's to read some, you know, it's to say some things to me or to do and Pawnee low and things like that. He knew some words in Turkish in order to do and even some words in English. So then, after about six, seven years, he started listening to three sides and then he I started reading one one quarter
every day, and you know, I got used to the way of reading. So how the law he afterwards gave me this ijazah and I have the Jazza it gives gives everyone one you know this massive big massive each other we've got an upgrade in a frame and it's on the wall down there. Maybe you can take a picture and just show it that's a whole chain going from him. So it basically it says here that this student has recited the Quran by heart from Surah Fatiha to Surah tunas all of the Quran to me through the Para of Huff's and Azim from have an awesome Kira, I read the whole Quran by memory to my chef through the Kirov Hafsa Nasim, who was such as a chef who read to share the whole list there. I think
there's 43 names. I think it goes to about 40 to 43. Teacher after teacher after teacher shelf after shelf after shelf, all the way to say the amount of man of new iPhone or the Allahu anhu, who recited the whole Quran upon the messenger of allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam who through Jabra eel received the Quran from Allah so this is a chain of Quran all the way to Allah subhanaw taala so that's one thing I did
another shift on the I'm going to try to make this short with other shoe there was somebody called chef noodle Denethor he also passed away recently, a great Muhaddith
he used to have a nurse every week in a place called in a masjid called Jammie ashram see
one thing common again, I found that many of the shoe down there they will all in had a
ultimate respect for multi DACA
but all of them shareholders in retirement and I told him I studied by Chef taki with money so shout out with money share on our show, you know, I meet him at Islamic Academy sometimes and move the duck with money visited Syria in 1980s and then made another journey as well. Chef noodle the narrator stayed with him from airport to airport, collected him
on he upon his arrival, stayed with him everywhere and dropped him off until his last day. And then I remember from Syria, I actually once made a visit to Karachi, Shia Canada the writer told me that is it possible for you that take some books for me to gift his own written books? shareholding it was a great Muhaddith I have some of his books.
His he wrote a shadow on even Azureus Bluehole Mara Mala muram Kalia Allah will
he is edited lot of the sort of Hadith books shahada, Faker and shadow of Imam and our we and so many even shuffled them for taboo they used to praise.
He was the son in law of Sheikh Abdullah Raja Deen, who is the commentator of mundo mobicone.
Even shallow the narrator was from help from Aleppo, but he used to teach and reside in Damascus. So I remember I said to me, I can take all the books and then so he asked me when are you traveling? I said this day said okay, inshallah come a day before. So I went to his house. When I went to his house, I saw two piles. One pile was formed to talk with money and at the pile was for me, or for these boxes at this old for you gift and these old books for most of the money, so I took them all with me to Karachi, so I used to attend his lessons. There was another show called Sheikh Abdul Latif, for for Al Hasani
shefford literally for full Hasni. His father was a famous, like an amazing scholar of Syria called Sheikh Mohammed Salah for a fool. I normally say to the students Sheikh Salah for four of Syria is like the Sheikh zekeria of Indian subcontinent when everyone has their own type of shoe. You know, not everyone's chef chef for every part of the globe he had four sons all of them you know all like he's like multi chef era himolla For example, Chuck solid for for his sons are all like after a few moves to Turkey these guys Sheikh Abdullah three for for Chef or something for for sure. Well you didn't for who should have been for food, shall have some would infer food is a principle of
Mahadevan fertile Islami were had officially enrolled. But I didn't get to know him much. The eldest son was chef Abdul Latif al for for Al Hassani again, passed away. He passed away in Malaysia when the Syrian war happened. He his students in Malaysia said you come here and they took him there and then he passed away that I became very close to him and his students. Now he reminded me a bit of the Hakim other side, you know, in Karachi, remember every Friday, I used to go and eat there, and then give me apple and banana on the way back. I used to spend my Friday with shareability for food and he used to have like a Xavi as well and his students very similar setup. They used to have like
an A sheet gathering and a hydra gathering and he's done with Doris and his students. So with one of his students, I studied different books related to how we are and he has a book Azad, we still use as a colostomy hero that he's got to two volume books. Ebner RBD new author who failed furcal Islami, his brother wrote, you know, a commentary sort of an excellent doctor. Well you did he just passed away last year as well that his brother's methodical help that his brother as well what do you did for for his brother was also referred master who is to teach at model fertile Islami, so attend his brother's lessons there. But he loves to teach he used to have a place
in the olden area of Damascus Sadat area so I used to go there on Fridays. I used to do my job all day I used to eat with them I breakfast the Syrian people, you know, it's just the hospitality. Everything's amazing. They put food in your mouth, essentially armored. You know, though, what Ocarina is and for touche and for landfills and you know, older Syrian type of food and it's just so amazing. I stayed in a place called recruit Dean. I rented a house there flight localu. Dean area, a lot of students used to stay there.
And every day I used to go to fertile Islamia. You take a bus, and then to come back and then attend different doses once a week there once a week there.
Also,
there was this show called chef Moogerah. Hopefully but Hassani he is actually in Turkey now. It's quite popular in Turkey. And he was a kind of a friend slash teacher. I met him just recently when I went Turkey as well. So I told him I said look, and I will read some books with you privately. One of the things look in Syria for students is that you know, I felt after studying Darren burry, like I said,
I didn't study too well in the initial years, especially my narrow sub.
I started become a serious serious towards the end. And then I studied in Dublin Karachi. So I thought you know what one of the things I want to do is I want to study those books again. Because now when I go there teaching, etc. I probably don't know. I still probably don't know. As ought to know. But you can't in England say You know, you've done your if telcos and I want to study something that was self against a bit embarrassing. So I did some narrow again, in Syria, privately some sort of again,
Khatron nada, I read and some of the books, I did some practice of my Ibarra of Arabic language I did upgraded to Hawaii, I did also live again. So that really helped
to shape Moogerah katiba study show number three, Figaro, they managed to go to his house now. Syrian people just love their manners, the character, the sweetness is just unique. The way is amazing. So even the teachers and everyone's very, very gentle and jovial and sweet and
so that's one thing I learned from there.
So, Chef Moogerah huggable has me I used to go to his house, he used to give me tea, everything. And just one to one show. Number two figure there was another show. You know, students done this on a lot. They used to all
try to find teachers who could teach them privately. The students used to run behind the teachers, not the teachers running were you while you're not coming you skiving because everyone's mature. Most people coming to study they're either married on or in the early 20s or reverse. They're coming on their own accord. They're spending money. They're funding their own cells. So no one's forced them to study. These are not 1617 year old teenagers in a dark room. That's why they study well. I have some friends who studied, graduated from university
in from Canada, from America from the UK, graduated and then at the age of 22. They've come to study until age of 29. People like Imam Zaid Shakur and he was there when you're when I was telling the chef what Bernie all these guys did in in Syria.
But in the, like, old age or not old age but like in in the 20s, mid 20s, late 20s, even early 30s They mature that understanding. So
you, you we used to see a lot of the students going to teach us please can you give us time please can you give us time? Can I read this book with you? Now the senior teachers, you couldn't study by them because they're too busy. But the second level,
you could find them you could study by them like two of you three of you. Remember I did a bit of shuffling as well there was a teacher, me a Turkish student and a Syrian student every morning. before Fajr Salah every night or every morning, every Saturday morning he gave us time. I read the book, under to Salic This is on the to Salic Shafique
read this book by him. I've got look I've got this is a chef effect like the quality of the Hanafi mother got all my mess, you know, like notes, etc on it. I read this by the chef and his house, not just read by him. We used to go after fajr three of us is to teach us and give us a free breakfast. And there's no fees to study by
his to bring after free studying his wife used to cook a massive breakfast in a big tray with you know Syrian type of breakfast and with green tea mint tea and he's to bring it and then he's to say we used to be sitting on the sofa instead he used to sit down on the floor and pour the tea and give it to us. So teachers feed us everything for free. A lot of the teachers to do that.
And you know, there were some students who came from the UK who were studying there.
Also, I would like to mention Sheikh Mohammed Saeed Ramadan al Bucha.
The martyred Shaheed Ramallah, people have differences with his political stances towards the end and you know, you got martyred.
But he was a unique scholar.
It was very difficult to get to know him personally, because he used to have bodyguards around him as well. But you know, he was very busy. He used to teach once a week, he used to come to the microphone Islami, so I used to go and attend his lessons there. Even there I used to just attend his because in Syria people just to just attend in lessons he used to teach up either in the Damascus University. So even though I wasn't enrolled, every Thursday from nine till 12 is to teach Aqeedah. So every Thursday I used to go there, a lot of students from different Institute's would just attend those.
Now, you know, students used to come to ISVs to reach the 830 but we couldn't get space to sit
all in Damascus University. 500 seats are own gone. Students stood for three hours with the books and pen and writing for three hours with a break in the middle 1520 minutes.
Sitting on window you know on the window sills and etc and some on the floor and it was so I attended those. That was my Akita understanding and he's got some amazing books shocks either him Obama bought a cobra diakonia tricone just this lap some of his books. This is
God I have a clear Masashi oxide Ramadan booty.
And then he used to have an SU lesson in the model Fidel Islami,
his strategic sharpies buckle moi forgot. High level book, I used to attend those as well. And then he used to have to public lessons in the German auto EMA and German to the man is a massive Masjid every Thursday and every Monday, every Thursday nights between mother and Aisha who's to teach you the other side of it taught that for 20 years. I don't know if you've completed it. One Hadith for about three, four weeks. There used to be at least three 4000 People used to attend that people used to fly in from other cities as he goes back.
And every Monday, he used to teach the heck malapa Yeah, I think I have is hacker malapa Yeah.
This is yes. This nurse with the people he's with our.
So he's strategic America. He has poetry of Imam Liberata Allah secondary in his commentary and that CO published as well. He's an author of like 7080 books. You know how that led this is my father nakida and so many chef Mohammed Saeed Ramadan al booty, I got to know his son really well. But I met him on a few occasions, but not personally personally. So I used to attend to the other side of heen one. And then one of the things in Syria
I saw which I learned as well, which was different from the subcontinent was the general public they desire to learn the in the subcontinent is either you're a Harlem, Harlem ear or you're a child.
Either you become a Molana, Harlem or you're you stay a child. It's like either here or there. There's only two teams in this division.
either there or they're in Syria. It's not like that the public learn. There's public dueces in the massage, but there was one chef who I got to know as well. And I really liked as well. He's actually still alive, che Osama al Rifai. He's in Turkey now. Probably in seven late 70s or 80s. Now, there was a very big Masjid. His father was a great chef. And the name of the museum was Jeremy Storify. Used to mainly I used to try to go to I try to do my job out there quite a lot. I used to go to Chicago on a day for first place but some job was I used to try to offer them in his Masjid he was he would give a 45 minute Juma hotbar I remember when I was there he was teaching the Hadith Jabra
either in the gym or whatever. So my son for the past four weeks do mahatma is on Malaya Hassan
you know you pray Allah Islam came and asked he gives a depth Juma Hotpads adults 45 minutes. I have all the recordings as well. But he used to have
after Juma used to be his q&a session as well in the masjid. But in that Masjid after Fajr Salah every single day, six days of the week besides Friday, he used to have gurus for the public, everyday three different books. One day Musa Ahmed autorola And now Musa Hamid in Hadith okay that haha another day maybe
more time Amharic book on Zulu Hadith and effect book and much more. One day was much more of Imam Novi. He is a Schaeffer different books who used to attend these classes, doctors, lawyers, barristers and billable, whoever wanted to open after fajr, Salah 15 minutes they used to sit in the masjid do the vicar, or whatever everybody used to head downstairs into the main room is to be about 72 people. And the person who's read from the book was a doctor and these guys used to all have to measure one one and a half, two hours study there and then they would all go back go home change the clothes get into their work gear and then someone's opening a pharmacy someone's Doctor someone's
going to work all of them so the public used to learn about the and that's understanding of God from there that Dean is not just in a madrasa and then you see a job you know give courses people should do general public should study Akita to how we fare and Hadith and different different things. So this was shared with some or refer.
Rahim happy the hola is still alive.
And yeah, just one last thing I just wanted to note about Syria
again, what I tried to do here, this is the last part of Syria was I tried to see everyone taste different flavors. So like in Pakistan,
even though in Pakistan, it was an outside the box box but still different types of
Medallia
This Institute's seminaries, scholars shoe, whatever.
In Syria
it was already different.
Like for him for example, one thing that just comes to mind I got a culture shock when I saw so many shoe having trimmed in small bits. So now I've come from darlin Barry, where anyone who is to trim one hair used to be expelled. I'm just exaggerating, but if you just want hair, you're gonna finish like beard is like massive big thing, especially in lumen Barry because she called Hadith monozukuri. Ramallah was very, very, very particular he actually wrote a whole book. And we've had the book there. Shackle Hadith, modern as a career rahamallah.
He's wrote a book on the beard.
So anyway,
when I went to an inn down from Karachi, also in the subcontinent, Medallia's beer is really important. When I went to Syria, so many shoe I saw a trimmed beard, smaller beards. So first of all, I got a shock.
Now, I always tell the students that look, one thing that taught me was, I became a bit more tolerant over months. So when I first there's the book when I first went there,
I just could not, you know, accept the fact that a teacher is teaching there and doesn't look like a big chef with a big beard.
So he's teaching but I'm just, I'm just thinking about his beard. Why is his beard small? He's giving a lecture but why is it No, maybe it's not working? Maybe this is a bit big on this side. It's like everything's about the beard. Because that's the kind of mentality I had.
So then, and then I thought why don't they keep it? I have some students that haven't done the know it's like for them Islam as well as human is so important. And then I remember shekel, Hadith monana zekeria, Rahim Allah. He has a book written in Arabic. Kulu Juba Allah, the necessity, the necessity of lengthening the beard.
So I asked around in Syria, anyone seen this book? Many people didn't know if this book, there was one publishing house.
Only they had this book I once know these two, you know, there was a stall outside once and I saw the book I said, this is a book. So I told some of my friends students, I said, Look, this is our chef chef who's written this book. There's a no decisions have been by this book. The seller fees they put too much emphasis on seller the Saudis because down to the understanding was only the Saudis have big beards, like the Hanafis and the we trim beards. It was like that kind of mentality
because one of the non Madhavi understanding is like there is an opinion that you just don't trim it even if it gets to your belly button or even to your feet if you want just don't touch yet another aisle.
So
they say no, this has just been passbook. I said, No. I looked at the book and shopping but his name was there because this was a book written by Shakira Mala. But a Saudi student or a scholar had republished it with his own footnotes, his editing, and he got a foreword written by shuffling buzz and sharpen buzz, who was the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia is passed to him Hola.
His name was like maybe even in a larger font, look, you know, more appear to be bigger than the actual author shuffled Hadith. She has a career Mo. So anyone who even knew of this book thought it's a Saudi chirpin Buzz, Mufti of Saudi Arabia his book. So I said, You know what this book needs to be republished
in Syria, with the removal of this Shaban buzz name and his students footnotes and I'll put footnotes This is my share, and I we should publish his book. And everyone should know about this book. So actually ordered a couple of old copies. I was very passionate that time.
Really old copies of the Jubu edify layer. Nobody was prepared to publish it but there was one publishing house marketable fragile, who was a bit more inclined towards Salafism. But there was nobody else he was hiding Lee, you know, he said, I'll publish it. So then I published this book. This is the book I've only got one copy. Would you ever layer I don't leave my little cubby an Imam, a Sheikh Mohammed Zachary al Qaeda Louis, Atlanta he will Allah Calif edited and footnotes by Mohammed bin Adam and co author. And then I got my teacher the show here. She called her this Mona Lisa Motala. To write a foreword as well. In Arabic, he wrote a foreword for me. And then I wrote
the introduction. And this is the book and I put a lot of footnotes, I got to publish and I went and give went to all the shoe and gave one one copy to them with a gift.
To the point that it was very embarrassing. I mean, I shouldn't have done that. But that time I didn't know. Yeah, I should mention shareholders highly. Shareholders are highly auto passed away. He is actually a very good friend of mine. He says he's one of my closest one of my best friends.
On the level of Islamic Academy he passed away just three four years ago. His famous book I have here alpha called Islam you are delayed to
11 volumes he used to live very close. I went to his house once I used to attend some of his lessons in Shafi.
I once asked him, I said, How did you write this? He said for six days a week, I used to start 4am till 11pm Every single day only Gulf of Jamal, Salah and to the washroom and have my food. Other than that, I sit with a pen and write. And that's how I wrote alphacool Islamiat where they let 4am to 11pm nothing else six days a week, just once a week I used to go some lecture somewhere. So Shahab has already he's supposed to as well. I remember giving one to him as well and I went given.
But now some students say that does that mean console? Trimming OBS, I said, No, this is the point.
You can think something is wrong. But you can respect a different opinion. It's you can tolerate it.
It's not completely like crazy opinion. They have an opinion. There could be other reasons. There's political reasons like in Egypt. There are some political reasoning, but even if from a fixed point of view, if they have an opinion, that because there's an opinion, that if they say one fist, but one fiscal Maya father who bobble one, nothing, etc, that if he makes you look like a minute type of, you know, half man, half woman feminine, then there's those type of opinions out there. So I mean, like, if someone asks my opinion, I would say, yeah, one fist is watching in the head.
But I would still have an absolute respect for a chef who has an opinion
that you can trim it bits shorter than that. So
I got that from Syria, just respecting differences of opinion, being more tolerant. And this was the last point I wanted to talk about that, you know, in Karachi, I was going different places here, I was going to all these different places. I wanted to taste everything.
Even things which I probably didn't agree with. So I don't know if some of the viewers know about the vicar, gatherings others.
So I wanted to attend the others as well. They were very enjoyable entertainment, entertainment as well. There was somebody called chef Saleh MOV, he's passed away as well.
He had a mustard kojamo Sadat, every Friday, Thursday night, Islamically Friday night, he used to have a harder rock gathering. Otherwise, the Sufi vicar gathering will stand on
a lot of jumping on, you know, you can check on YouTube, his videos are there. He used to have his own group, all the young students there, and so I got to know them. And it's really enjoyable. I used to love going there. And he used to make me sit close to him. So I used to attend those Hadera gatherings. Now for a student coming from
the room, Dobyns seminary affiliated seminary, Karachi actually wrote a question from there to Karachi in Arabic without my name, are these headers allowed or not? Because they wanted to know.
And the answer is that they don't agree with that, of course.
So
for someone like that, to do those kinds of things, it's like, completely This is better. This is wrong. There was a famous chef called chef Adorama. And sugary
famous official is passed away. I attended some of his others. And then I went to * up Aleppo, some of the Sufis, chefs there as well. I had a really good friend who study who used to study with me, it's the Korea Bahasa, so with him, I went, I attended some of the weddings there, some of the, you know, Syrian weddings, some of the other gatherings of the madrasahs Institute's
and I, you know, you, it's good to see all of this different flavors, different tastes different, manage different, like ways, and things that people do. And then you get you absorb everything, and then afterwards, you can kind of make your mind up as to what you want to do and follow Sharla. So that was surreal, basically. So chef, mashallah, since you then travel to these various different modalities, both in the subcontinent here within Britain, and then in Syria, did you see a difference in the modalities of teaching, etc. How would you describe the differences that were then the teaching itself, between Syria and Pakistan and different places?
I mean, of course, each place is different. The difference between the modalities and the shoe and Alma of Pakistan Indians in the UK subcontinent and the Syrian ones.
There are differences
in terms of the books as well
There's a lot of influence importance in the Syrian modalities or the CIO of Syria of reading books cover to cover but not too much explanation sometimes. So they will say let's read rather matar eight volumes, shahada Ra's al Halabi Rahim Allah did they have them of this whole thing? Like they say two times, I think. But maybe not everyone's understanding every part, whereas in the subcontinent that is you read less, they're not retrained to read cover to cover, except they do that with the six books. The six books they do Ybarra, like always tell the students like half the students majority don't understand what's going on, or be a holiday, like so that I'm
opposed to that as well understand it then to the bar. So we do that for for Hadith for Baraka. And in the Syrian scholars, they do that with even odd with fake books, they want to cover like books, there's a lot of Nakara, Ankara business of books, the farm is probably a bit less. So that, you know, I felt was a difference. So these are some of the differences.
Between you know, and like I said, you know, some of the opinions or give an example of the beer issue.
Some other issues as well. In terms of the Syrian and
Hanafis of Pakistan, for example, in the Syrian Hanafis, they are more accommodating, or they are more open to taking an opinion from another mother, Bob Ross, or from another mother. And one of the reasons for that, is that because they have a lot of Hanif Is there a lot of Shaeffer is then you've got a family. One Happy Father's Hanafy mother chef A son is Maliki says the daughters humbly. So to go outside of your mother hub doesn't become like as though you're going outside of Islam. Whereas in subcontinent if someone went outside, they've gone to the other extreme. It's like, if someone just combined prayers as though you know you've committed Gopher, that's another extreme. So the
balance is somewhere in the middle.
So this is one of the differences that they're more open to taking an opinion from another mother, whereas in the subcontinent, they are very strict. No, you have to stick to the Hanafi madhhab, you have to stay unless there's an absolute necessity that you come out of the madhhab. So these are some differences in ways they're still both how to fuse the subcontinent or hanafin Syrians or Hanafis Turks are similar Turkish people, they also had affairs as well.
But you get some you get differences in all places. I
mean, I remember and also in you know, like in some of the other views like I said, they were doing harder ours in Syria, this demoted mounted gathering gatherings. Now the molded gatherings are different to the subcontinent Milad Sharif, there are no marches and all that kind of it's not that extreme, but they still have the concept of molded gatherings. So they have you know, quasi initiate programs.
So I attended some of those more live gatherings etc. They read the border and things like that. I remember I wrote an article on millet and Molad Why do the the urban scholars prohibit Modi than India? I will say no, they don't pry but it is only certain things that they disagree with. And I was trying to, you know, explain a lot of things, which was more close to the Certain Way.
I remember
once, when she moved to talk with McAfee, the whole law came to the UK, he said he met me and said what what have you written in the morning, I have this many letters of complaint about you. That's when he started getting to know me more people work because I wrote it online. When I wrote that article. People have written emails and letters to him that he's studied at shoulder loom. And he's got a position which is more close to, as they say the breadwinners, for example, is becoming operative is very close to the brainwaves, etc. Because Syrians, you know, more, maybe the parallelism or close to the Syrian way, maybe, you know, all of it is relative to be honest. So he
told me that, but again, the way he is like for him is not like us to have a logo for his smiling no problem and not a big deal. Then he said to me that I was sitting in merci Nabawi and someone came to me, and it's talked to me about you that he is very much influenced by this Syrians. So I said
no, he someone complained about the same thing. They you've written something because I wrote an article on the Molad. So he said, I've got this many letters people have written to me, and also somebody in Mercy who never we came and told me about you. I just told him that yeah, it was Michelle Moran is pregnant sham Syria. So he's got a bit of influence, no big deal. It's not the be all and end all of everything. He doesn't this is the balance again, this all of this also made me respect him more.
shouted up as many of you the whole law. So anyway, I was a bit influenced and
but slow
really slowly slowly again over the years like I always say to and I've said this to the students and maybe you guys have heard this before many times that all these different flavors vanilla flavor, banana flavor milkshake, chocolate flavor strawberry flavor all the different tastes and all the different flavors from within Pakistan within UK dot bloomberry UK teachers Pakistan different shoe Syria different shoe and then also I went to other places not to study but but after all of these experiences you know I always tell the students and this is my personal personal opinion that the understanding of Dean the firm and understanding of Dean
that nifty Tucker with money has and Darren Karachi in general has and shareholder Islam with the Mohammed talk with Manny has specifically for me that is the most balanced and the best understanding it's the center ground for me like I tell the students I put them on and like from four extreme to the left to the far extreme to the right like this group we call mentioned this group names but you get the extreme from here to the extreme to the left, the Herati G extreme on the right like everything's cool for a shit but are like killing, murdering like to the next to the next to the extreme to the Schilke type here. And even the dark room duben seminary affiliated
people people think Dobin this is like one group. It's not even a group is not a sect. It's Tao Arun Dube is a madrasa within barreling duben There's different multiple opinions. So how cool is different to that alone Dilbert and otherwise different $2 loom Dilbert scholars have different
so within them as well like for example, the darlin berry taste, which is probably milk Stawberry type of greeny flavor I don't know strawberry is not green, but it's a it's more Salawat level of the Prophet sallallahu Sallam I mean that's we all should have that but but more in terms of and it's a very like different flavor, shithole Hadith, Shizuka rockmelon flavor group, the group gatherings, it's a different flavor. If you look at another flavor is different flavor. So I just saw all these flavors, and tasted all of them, absorbed all of them. And then for me finally I settled on the flavor of Thirroul and Karachi generally, and Chef moved to Turkey with money,
specifically his understanding of deed, which actually comes from his father
Sheikh Mufti Mohammed Shafi, Ramallah,
Great Mufti and jurist, author of modern Quran, and which he took from Hakimullah Musharraf Molana Shefali Turner, I'm Allah, she's a certain salah of Baraka, you know, like a chain of Barak. So this is, for me the most balanced understanding of the show. So you also mentioned that you traveled elsewhere. So you can briefly tell us, tell us about where else you traveled? Yeah, I mean, after in terms of study is only to Syria. But afterwards, when I came back, now, then I just made some educational trips and journeys. So this wasn't like specifically to study just to, again, to experience and taste. So those first few places was probably stay to two years, two years in Syria.
But afterwards, I just very briefly visited some countries.
Like for example, I visited Yemen, in 2005. I wrote a whole article on it, it's on the website. I don't know if anyone's seen it. 10 days in the blessed lens of Yemen, now in Yemen as well. I went to Sana. Sana is the capital, there's a massive madrasa called Jeremy Otto Iman.
Asif the sheikh who established it was his name, I think he's still alive shave
for getting this Xin Xin Danny Chef abdulmajeed zindani.
But I went there. They're very, very similar to the Durban seminary type. Very strict on Hadith, the very against betta massive 10,000 students. She has nothing to do with money. Went there who was invited for the first graduation ceremony in 2005 or 2001, or something like that. This is the capital of Sanaa, Yemen. So I stayed there. And then I went, I took a seven hour.
Bus coach journey. I want to have the remote or the remote is like I was there one student when he said to me, where are you going in some of the capital? I said, I'm going to go to other motives. Why are you going to have remote that's not going to Sofia, that's the stronghold of the Sufis does a superior. So half of Yemen is split, serious Sufi, and this is non Sufi Salafi type.
But down there I went. I went to have remote. The remote is where you have to dream that almost of others
Well most of our head is happy bomber have been happy. Happy Valley Geoffrey. They both came here in the UK as well. I in Happy Valley came here came to this place to live. They came downstairs and he we had breakfast with him. We had lunch with him downstairs
actually took him to bowling Berry and took him to a lot of places happy Romar as well, because after I visited them, I got to know them. So I went to Hadramaut her very first day I went he invited me had food on balcony of his house had been Omer invited me. I stayed there for a few days and got to know them. It's a very Sufi type of now I don't agree with everything they do, and the ways but still, you know, there's a lot of things in common and heavy, heavy Ballmer was so happy to see me and he was talking about shell as a career. I'm hola and he said his father used to go in and out of league and his father wrote a seeder in praise of shells Zachary and his book when he
completed ozone mosaddek. And then I found it in one of the books and I gave a photocopy to him and he was so happy. I took him to Darwin Blackman when he came to the UK and he mentioned this to the students. He gave a talk. I gave the summary in English he talked in Arabic. Have you ever been Hafeez
and have you added Geoffrey had a food invitation by shareholdings Milanese, amatola Himalayan Blackberry, I took him there I went with myself. I was very closely attached to everybody at that time. So So Yemen I went also went to Egypt again for a few weeks, not officially to study. Some students were studying there they told me to come but I just wanted to just see how as her is and visited as her attended some daughters their Chicago Juma had moved to Egypt, telling some of his lessons, the roses,
different places there was one chef I remember I'm forgetting his name on the outskirts of Cairo.
Amazing he's to read the Teach Imam and AIIMS books and some of you didn't email me with Amiens books but he used to give a does. He used to lead Salah himself every day. And in three days he used to complete Quran hatom ins in three press. So he's to have a long Mercury prayer. Long Isha Prayer long fajr prayer. I remember we let read our we performed our mother Salah in us her Masjid in Cairo.
We finished we completed our son everything because we were going to see him after maghrib we sat for a while and I was into boats come on. We need to go there is no no no we will see him after maghrib we came outside. We had some coffee or some tea or something went to a bookshop slowly then took a taxi of about 20 minutes drive half an hour and then we had to walk right it was in the middle you know because the car can't reach to that area. It's a place where close to Imam Shafi is grief.
Hara three mamas Shafi
says at least 45 minutes after McGraw, nearly coming close to an hour after maghrib in bizarre. And the brothers who was with me three or four of us said okay, this is the masjid we entered. And they were still in the second block of Maghrib.
And he was reading you know, Surah Baqarah. And and luckily we were lucky. Luckily, Vijay rejoined the second guy in one page, he completed the second Rica and Wareham now offer Luna, the end of the Surah Baqarah.
Off Ronak
fill in our Hamner and Tamala funds or cow milk every Allahu Akbar and then third.
And then we met him after Salah and we had food. He was the one to share, who told me that I don't think it's allowed for Muslims to reside in these western countries.
But anyway, he was really good meeting him. And so he completes another Surah in Asia and then further. So I bought a lot of books. One of the things I did was I spent a whole day trying to collect books, what are the things I did in Syria as well, before I completed my studies, I used to make a list of books as a student, especially, you know, for students, it's good to look at the end, you know, the bibliographies. So I still go through all the Arabic bibliographies I actually have got a I've got it here some all my list that I made of books over the last two, three years of all my study in Syria. And then Lebanon.
Oh, where all the major book publishing houses are. So I went Lebanon two, three times. It's just a taxi, three hours drive. You take a taxi and you go to Lebanon, Beirut, and I went there and I gather all my books in Egypt as well. I got books. I used to go Jordan from Syria. When I stood in Syria. I've had many times. I used to go to meet my friend chef or other buddy, and I've probably talked to him about him later in the fatwa. But those chefs know who used to live chef new Hamcrest sorry. And his students they used to be in a particular area so I used to go and reside there. Just stay there. Just see how
Jordan is. Jordan used to be in again, two three hours
by taxi from Syria, which is cool.
As the border the time takes on the border, but traveling itself was only about two and a half three hours.
So these were some of the countries I just visited to meet the shoe.
See, the different scholars
buy books, there was a famous Jordanian are originally Albanian but living and residing in Jordan Jordan scholar Shahabi Solomon OG passed away Ramallah Hanafi scholar I really wanted to meet him. I met him as well. I'm the chef Schreiber used to be in Jordan. I couldn't meet him in Syria actually forgot there was another renowned scholar here. He used to be the only Salafi incline scholar Hungary he was Hungary, but he was against a hammer on everything. But he was very balanced and probably didn't see everything that he could say. He wanted to say, because he was in Syria. So this is not the land of the you know, those Salafis This is the land you get banned. All the books get
banned straightaway.
But every day he used to sit
between he was originally from Albania. Or notice Albanian chef Schreiber notice from the chef Abdulkadir or an old shackle Bernese from Albania, Albania, Albania, Albania, and Shehab Dakar. There are no they shall Bernie the parents had come together to Syria.
They did Hijra. They grew up in Syria, both of them he's talking about shackled Bernina Yeah, me and him were friends we met together. We used to play around. He disagreed with him on certain things, but he agreed with him on certain other things.
So I used to go like every now and then just to go to them. Sure, but no different scholar in Syria.
From Hydra, to Sherborn note, Sorry, chef Abdulkadir a note that is like 120 degree turn. Anyone goes to Hardrada like Sufis, you know, like impossible. They didn't like Chicago cardio note. And anyone who's been shuffled Okada node, they would think this guy's holding but out. One person, like saw me there and they go like, what are you doing? You're there and you're there. How can you be intuitive? If you're there, you're not there. But this is what I just did. I just went everywhere. So these are some of the places I visited.