Maryam Amir – Muslim women Tolerated or Empowered
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The importance of finding relevant sources for men and women to live life in the right way is emphasized, as it is crucial for personal growth. The speakers also discuss the negative impact of domestic violence and the importance of praying harder and not just saying things that are not true. The challenges of navigating narratives in Islamic history and the importance of empowering women to apply their knowledge and share their own spaces are also emphasized. Prayerers are encouraged to apply their knowledge and share their own stories of female parliament as it is important for personal growth and personal healing.
AI: Summary ©
Thank you so much for joining me today. I can't help us express how
much I admire you and mashallah, the work that you've contributed
to our community in regards to exploring the many layers of our
faith, as well as the rights of Muslim women in Islam. And I think
this is super important for us to talk about, and this is something
that we will cover today, but I would love for you to briefly
introduce yourself, and then we can get right into
it. Inshallah, I'm so honored and grateful and excited to be here.
My name is Miriam Amir. I focus on it's addressing issues that come
from the Muslim community, with regards to woman identity,
spiritual crises and taboo topics. I studied Islam for the past 15
years. Alhamdulillah, I've had the honor and privilege of memorizing
the Quran and working with scholars around the world, being
mentored by them, and I'm so grateful for their guidance. And
Alhamdulillah, I have a degree through El azo University, and
I've studied in Egypt of Alhamdulillah, my educational
background is in education. I have a master's from UCLA in social
justice education. My thesis was on critical race theory and
merging those two, I think is really important, because it
allows us to look at our identities critically and all of
the ways that challenge what our identities are as Muslims, and
then find ways to then feel a sense of empowerment and love and
end up listening in who we are because of our connection to God,
because we revel and just feel excited about who we are as
individuals. I know I'm not alone when I say this, but you're truly
a role model for a lot of Muslim women, when I listen to your
content online, the content that you share, and even when you
recite the Quran mashallah, your voice, it just brings chills down
my spine because of how beautiful it is, but it's also because it's
like, yes, this might be the first time I've heard a female recite
the Quran, unfortunately, but I'm glad that you're making waves. I'm
glad that you're teaching us how to empower ourselves and how to
empower the women around us. You brought up a lot of great points
in regards to just again, like the content that you share, and one of
them being women in Muslim spaces, in community spaces, in our
masayajit. And sometimes it's like, I enter these spaces and I
don't know what my role is or how I can contribute. And you know,
sometimes you do feel more so tolerated than welcomed. For me,
my personal masjid, I've grown up there since I was little. It's
been the message that I've known all my life, and I've seen so many
changes, and I'm just proud of the masjid that I have in my
community. I'm fortunate enough to have this Masjid that's very
diverse, but other people do not have that. You know, that same
space within their community to practice Islam and to feel
uplifted and empowered as a woman. I do want to discuss, how did we
deviate from our Prophet's example of how he helped held women in
society. Not only did he showcase women who they were mothers, but
they were also women that were in battle that you once even spoke
of. And I was like, wow, that's that's incredible. I never even
heard of these stories before. I also want to talk about how you
said, Look, our worth doesn't only you know line these three spaces,
which is modesty, which is such a big deal these days. We'll talk
about that in a bit. Marriage also another thing, and like I said,
motherhood, how can we as women see ourselves in other spaces
outside of that, especially when our Prophet, peace be upon him,
showcased that and reflected that, when we look at the community of
the common prophecy upon him, we see that women were acknowledged
for their very specific interests, contributions, they were
encouraged to become the best version of themselves. Because
Islam didn't come to mute our personalities. It came to enhance
the personality that ALLAH blessed us with. One of the things that I
really struggled with when I got really excited about studying
Islam for the first time was that I was told my personality, in and
of itself, was haram. The I as an individual, was problematic, and
that's because I'm naturally louder. I'm naturally more
talkative. I was giving lectures and in student government, and it
was like all of this was not religiously acceptable. What I
needed to be was someone who only stayed home, and that was my
place, and that's beautiful. That is an absolutely valid,
acceptable, beautiful opinion for anyone who wants to take that
opinion. The problem is that in our communities, we often
translate that into policy and make it seem like this is the only
form of worship. And when we do that a we lose so many women who
simply can't who can't understand why this could be like religiously
their role then B were not reflective of the community of the
Prophet Muhammad. Peace be upon him. When we look at the message
of the Prophet sallallahu, alayhi wa sallam, there are literally
hundreds of narrations of companions who are a woman who
would actively participate in going to the masjid, praying in
the masjid, listening to lectures in the masjid. There are so many
narrations of women narrating what they saw the Prophet Hamid, peace
be upon him, asking the Prophet saw them a question. And women
asked the Prophet, peace be upon him for a specific day where they.
Could ask questions of the Prophet. So Allah, a when I first
heard that, my reaction was, why only one day? Like, why did they
only have one day where they could ask questions like, why didn't
they ask for more? And then I learned that it wasn't because
they didn't have more. It was because they were always present.
They always had access. But there were also men present having
access to and so they asked for a special time where they could ask
their more intimate questions that they didn't want their their male
counterparts to hear just that shift in the narrative, just that
slight nuance shifted everything for me, because when I first got
into Islam, I came across all of these hadiths and these ayats that
challenged my faith, and I'm here like memorizing the Qur'an. I take
this class because I want to defend Islam in college, and it
was just so hard for me because hearing about women's issues
caused me to feel like, Does this mean that Islam isn't empowering
for women? Does this mean that our voices don't matter? And it was a
very, very painful process for me to come to the realization that
the way that we are as a community right now has been impacted
politically. We have been impacted by so much that has shaped our
understanding of Muslims, Muslim women's spaces that are not in and
of itself, scholarly opinion, but rather realistically, just based
in changes in the world. You know, many of us are the great
grandchildren, the great great grandchildren of a generation that
went through colonialism. We are not that far away from generations
that had to deal with complete oppression, suppression of their
faith, and with that came a shift in how women's access was viewed
and received. So like, we need to look at our reality from that lens
when we think, for example, women recital Qur'an, that's so strange.
Like, like you mentioned, I might have been the first woman you've
ever heard recite like, why is that the case here? But when we
look in other places, like, when we look at Algeria, when we look
at Malaysia, Indonesia, this is their norm. Women reciting the
Quran is their norm. So what is it about our understanding and the
people who built the masajid here that is different from countries
that have created this as part of their space and a sheik that I
spoke to one of my mentors, may Allah, bless him, made a really
profound point, and that is that sometimes in our fear of what
could happen. We close doors for women's access, when, in reality,
what we should be doing is normalizing it so that we're not
afraid of the fitna. And that's really like this point when we
look at the message of the Prophet behind the peace be upon him. We
have women who were involved in staying at home all the time. And
we have women who were out like she said bintallah, who was the
Alma radiah, who made her the minister of the market like we
have women who were fighting in battle, and then we have women who
were staying at home with kids. We have hundreds of narrations of
women who took care of the wounded and who went with these armies so
that they could take care and nurse and give water to the to the
men on the battlefield. And then we have women who fought in the
battle like we have women in all these different rules. Why can't
we be a reflection of that, instead of teaching sisters that
this is the only opinion, that's the truth, that's the Haq of the
Quran and Sunnah. Why aren't we a reflection of what the Prophet
Muhammad peace be upon his community? A woman actually was, I
love that you've clarified so much for me, because sometimes it's
like us women, and I do want to talk about this like and it's not
just solely based in our faith or our community, like you said, it's
all about colonialism, like I see this across all communities,
across all different faiths in this country, at least in the
West, where majority of women feel more so like a liability than an
asset, they feel like more so like a burden. And I want to know how,
at least in our specific community, how can we create these
roles? Who do we talk to? How do we make space for ourselves? I
mean, are we going to just sit back and continue to wait until
finally we do become a reflection of the profit peace be upon him
and how he used to handle things. What can we do in regards to
allowing ourselves to be seen and heard in these spaces? And like I
said, not just seen, but specifically heard in these
spaces, because a lot of times I do feel like, you know, we're
either silenced or voices are cut off, or we're not we're not even
taken seriously. At times, sometimes it almost seems like
Islam only seems correct and factual when it comes from the
male perspective versus like the female perspective, like,
sometimes we're almost like negated, even though there are
people like you who have done extensive studies on this, who
have gone to school for this, who have gotten degrees in regards to
stuff like this. So it's like, why do we still continue to feel like
negated, or in a way, silenced, almost? So how can we find our.
Selves in these spaces and actually be leaders in these
spaces. There are three approaches that we need to start taking, and
this is obviously just my personal thoughts. There are so many women
who are scholars, who are so much more knowledgeable than I am, and
mashallah so accessible we have. Dr Tamara Cray, Dr heifetunnis, Dr
Aisha, as well as Sheikha Aisha prime, we have Sheikha Zina bam,
sorry, so many women who are actively involved in creating
these types of spaces. So if we live in a community where we don't
see that reflection, it doesn't mean that it's not in existence.
It means that we work towards it, and those are just like a handful
of names of so many women who I've been so fortunate to now be in
contact with and be inspired by. But if we look at our, you know,
kind of like this three step process, that we can start
creating this change. One, it starts with us as individuals.
When we look at why we're challenged by our faith as an
individual, if I come across something that challenges my
faith, if I come across something that I feel like I don't know how
to process this from a religious perspective, I don't know what
that means in my relationship to God, then I need to first
recognize that education starts with my own journey, and I need to
be responsible for that. There are so many times where we do seek
knowledge and we are pushed out, we are pushed away, and at times
that could close the door for us, and we don't want to keep going.
And that was my personal experience for many years. So I
understand that reality. At the same time, we just have to keep
pushing until we feel like we can start understanding our religion
on our own, with the support of scholars. But how can I understand
it in a way that reflects my relationship with God based in the
Quran and the Sunnah, but one in which I find healing from because
there are going to be people of knowledge who make us feel like we
don't belong, like we're belittled. I'm very fortunate that
most of my teachers have been men. They have created spaces for me.
They've helped me find my voice and uplifted my voice and
amplified my voice, and they continue to do so, but at the same
time, that hasn't been my reality all the time or everyone's so if
you are not finding spaces to learn where you can feel like the
Islam that I'm practicing is in Islam that I feel is, you know,
healing for me, then take courses with incredible scholars who have
already created institutes, and I'm going to share a few with you,
just So you have resources. Imam suhaibweb was my first mentor, and
he has web.com we have Dr Tamara Grey's rubble talk. Dr Aisha
wazwaz has gems of light. We have so many of these different
scholars who have their own institutes that you can study with
and find that type of lens of the family through. So that's the
first one. The second one is we need to look at the difference
between our personal preferences and community policies. We have
individuals who are on Masjid boards who are creating policies
in the architecture and the infrastructure of masajid. When
you enter a masjid and you grow up in a masjid where you don't see
women ever giving lectures, where you don't even know what the Imam
looks like, and you don't know who to ask your questions to when it's
3am and you have no idea if you finished your period and you need
to pray Federer, and you have no clue who to ask because you have
never had access to someone to ask those types of questions to. These
are a reflection of the fact that we are not prioritizing in many
Muslim communities, women's access to knowledge, and when we don't
make that in the architecture and the infrastructure of our Masjid a
priority, we then also give the message that women do not matter
in religious spaces as much as men do, and that is not the reflection
of the community of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in
which women constantly ask their questions, in which in Sahih al
buchari, one of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
him. In isti habla would actually pray in the masjid of the Prophet
sallallahu alayhi wa salam. And isti Hala, for those who might not
know that term is when you're in a state of bleeding that is not
ritually impacting your worship. So why would she go to the masjid
and have a tray underneath her in Sahih al buchari, unless she felt
like being in the masjid was a space for her to worship Allah and
feel that type of connection. So when we make policy based on one
opinion, the opinion that it's better for women to be able to go
to the mall, to go to the market, to go to the movies, to go
everywhere.
There, but if they try to enter the masjid, I have heard stories
of women who tell me that they've tried to go to the masjid to pray
because they're out and they need to pray. And instead, they've
either had to pray on the sidewalk outside of an empty, open masjid,
or have been told to go to the mall down the street because they
have a multi faith center in that mall, instead of simply opening
the door to a completely empty Masjid. If those are the types of
policies we're setting. And then at the exact same time, we expect
women to carry all of Islam on our shoulders every time we go
outside. Women who don't wear hijab are shamed, blamed, guilted.
Women who don't wear hijab in a particular way are told to take it
off. We have so much expectation on how women should dress, and we
dictate that. Well, we don't give any type of support and mentorship
and creating spaces where women could feel like they even want to
explore what that looks like. How can we as a community put any
blame on women? Honestly, one of the most beautiful parts of Islam
being true is the fact that despite the toxicity and trauma
women have faced in Muslim spaces, they're still Muslim like Allah,
if that doesn't show the strength of the faith of Muslim women,
because despite all of this, we're still clinging on to our faith.
And I want to clarify, obviously, this is not all, Miss Ajit, this
is not all Muslim spaces. This is not all Muslim organizations.
There are so many Muslim organizations and messages that
are actively creating women's spaces actively. At the same time,
I hear from women, hundreds of women, and this is not the norm
for many, many, many communities. And so if we are not going to
change policies to no longer reflect one version one opinion,
these are opinions based in scholarship. I'm not denying that
they exist, and maybe that scholarship works best for a
particular community. A sister reached out to me from another
country, and she was like, Why are you pushing for women to go to the
masjid? Why don't they just go to the madrasa? And I was like, we
don't have that. That's not our in the United States, our Masjid is
where we learn, it's where we worship, it's where we find
community. Yes, we have third spaces being created by people who
are tired of the masjids policies and politics, but that's we don't
have these like third spaces that women actively need in. We're not
in a that's not our infrastructure as a general nation. So unless we
create those alternative spaces, and that's part of our norm, the
Masjid is the place where we find our religion and without it,
without being able to access it and feel like it's not someone
else's home, it's our home in this relationship of Allah. This is
Allah's house, and the house of Allah is for all of us, until we
feel that is reflected in the way that we create our masajid, we are
going to continue to see women leave and not come back. They want
to raise if they choose to have children, or if they do have
children, they're not going to want to raise their kids in that
and so who are we to blame when three or four or five generations
into the future, God forbid and protect us, we don't have people
coming to the masjid like who is to blame at that point? And I
understand why NASA did create these policies. A lot of times
it's for this concept of said, of the RAI it is locking the means.
It's preventing the means of fitna. There's this fear that if
we open the doors, men and women are going to freely mingle, and
somehow some fitna is going to occur. The problem with that is
that number one, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. First
of all, said, do not prevent female servants of God from
entering the houses of God, from going to the houses of God. And I
have a whole lecture on the benefits of women going to the
masjid. So I'm not going to go into that. It's on YouTube and
Instagram TV. We have differences of opinion, not just one opinion
that a woman's prayer is better in the masjid versus her home, and
when we only teach that woman's prayer is better in her home based
on one understanding of one context, then we have policies
that reflect that in masajid, because it's better for women to
pray at home anyway. So why do we need to create these beautiful
spaces for one versus having messages that reflect the
community of the Prophet Muhammad? Peace be upon him. In which women
were actively a part of the Masjid. In which, when there is a
narration from Ibn abdas, who there, there were a group of young
men who would enter the Masjid. This is the companions. This is an
authentic narration. They would pray in the backline.
Things of the men to get a glimpse of a beautiful woman who stood in
the front lines of the woman. These are companions of the
Prophet. Peace be upon him and the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam. Did not build a wall between them. He didn't tell the
woman not to come to the masjid. He didn't tell women that it would
be better for them not to come to the masjid at all. He didn't
create policies to close the doors for a woman's access because of
the actions of men. The point is that in our community, what would
our reaction have been to that like, not the prophetic reaction
of, oh, we have a disease of our heart, perhaps coming to the
masjid and helping us learn and purify is the right solution,
rather than closing the doors of the masjid so that people don't
learn, don't grow and don't feel like they can come back and in the
time of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa salam, a beautiful woman
approached him to ask a question. During Hajj, he was writing with
his cousin, and alfal looked at SallAllahu, alaihi, Salam al FUDA
looked at this beautiful woman. Was kind of like, just like
staring at her and the Prophet sallallahu alayhi waslam did not
tell her to go find her uncle or dad or brother and come back and
ask a question. And in fact, she was asking a question about her
father. Her face was showing he didn't even, I love naqv Naqab
Naqab is beautiful. All respect to all sisters who are nakab. This is
not about, you know, shade on any anyone who wears nakab. But the
point is, he didn't tell her, salaam to cover her face. He
didn't tell her that she is responsible for his gaze. Through
words or action, he gently turned his face away and he put personal
responsibility sallallahu alayhi wa sallam upon
to be the one to show respect to this woman who's asking a question
and created a safe space for her question. That is the type of
policy that we need to start looking in at in masajid, because
when we look at set of Araya and closing the doors of fitna, the
greater fitna that we have right now, then men coming to the masjid
and potentially seeing a woman that is beautiful and that they
are somehow they can't concentrate on their prayer through is that
women are leaving Islam, women are leaving Muslim spaces, and they're
not coming back to them. And until that fitna is a greater fitna for
us as a community that we are addressing, we are not going to
continue to see women feeling like they're thriving in their religion
and creating spaces for the next generation to feel that
empowerment as well. That was so heartbreaking to hear, but
everything you said was true. I mean, these are realities. We
sometimes tend to turn a blind eye because we don't want to deal with
it, or it's difficult. It's difficult to realize there are a
lot of women leaving masajid, but sometimes, not only are they
leaving the masajid, at times, yeah, they could be leaving our
faith. These women are going to one day have their own beautiful
families, inshallah. And it's like, how are we going to raise
these children if even their own mothers are not active in the
masajid, and they're not going to be active in the masajid, not only
are we going to lose our faith, we're going to lose our language,
our culture, everything, we start to lose it one by one. And the one
thing that I always get fearful of is when they say, like, you know,
our faith is going to be a stranger to us, the Quran is going
to be like a stranger to us. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
that's something that I honestly tend to fear, and I feel like I
see that nowadays. I see it in these discussions. I see how
sometimes, how far removed people are from their faith because of
their experiences, because of what they've experienced. And I never
want to negate anybody's experience, but they've gone
through traumatic situations in regards to our community and how
sometimes they felt shunned or put down by the way they look,
especially when it comes to our physical appearance, which we'll
get into. But a lot of times I do feel this in all aspects of our
lives. It seems like us women get the brunt of and the repercussions
of what the men have done, and not all men. This is not to bash men
at all. There's a lot of great men out there, but I just want to
highlight that sometimes it's just the community as a whole.
Sometimes we look towards the woman to reprimand her for the
actions of men. I wonder if there's a direct connection with
how we were raised as well. I've discussed this so many times on
our podcast. I feel at times like us women were kind of like almost
viewed as children for a majority of our lives, even into adulthood,
even being a 30 year old woman, it's like you're viewed as a child
until you are married, and it's almost like who you are is tied to
your relationship status. And sometimes you feel like the
community kind of doesn't look at you as a whole woman until you're
actually married, until you actually have a family. So
sometimes that can be really difficult. And at times it's like,
yeah, you do feel like your voices are heard because you are treated
like a child. And I feel like, yeah, that comes from our homes,
like, how are we empowering our daughters and educating our sons?
On the flip side as well, to be able to handle these situations
and change these policies and for us to become the board members of
these misadjuks? So I was wondering what your thoughts are
on that in regards to just like, how we're raised relates to what
we're going through in these community spaces and how women
feel negated, I think this actually goes to an
intersectionality between culture and religion. I've heard a lot
from particular some specific cultural demographics where this
is a very prominent feeling. When you mentioned losing our cultures
and our languages, I think that that also goes back to the.
Idea of, you know, what it means to be an immigrant Muslim versus
what it means to be Muslims from different ethnic backgrounds or
different cultural backgrounds, what it means to be an indigenous
Muslim, what it means to be a black American Muslim. So much of
that is meshed into policies. Again, this, this idea that, you
know, women are seen as not a whole individual, until they, you
know, basically like they live at home. They deal with so many women
approaching me with abuse that they experience at home, physical
abuse, emotional abuse that they experience at home. From they are
adults, from their parents, these women in their 20s and their 30s
and they they can't move out, because in whatever culture they
come from, it's seen as immodest, it's seen as inappropriate. That's
not a religious standard. That's a cultural issue. Women are
absolutely it's absolutely permissible for women to live on
their own. So you have this like cultural understanding that you
know in obedience to parents, which is unfortunately, completely
abused in our religious conversations, that they have to
experience abuse for so long, and then they can't travel, they can't
work the way that they want to. They have all these restrictions.
They still have a curfew, even though they're 37
and then they can't, you know, move out until they're married and
have their own family, which, realistically, we have a marriage
crisis right now, and people are getting married just to escape
their parents, and that's a terrible reason to get married.
So, like, we have all of these problems. And again, really, this
is, like, very specific cultures that I've noticed have have these
conversations this. I don't think this is, I don't think this is a
reflection of every Muslim's cultural upbringing. But if we
have masajid that are very often created by immigrant Muslims who
come from these particular cultural backgrounds, those you
know views are going to be embedded in the way that they
raise their children, the way they set up the masjid. And so a woman
going to the masjid and only seeing this thinks that this is
the norm in Islam, when, in reality, when we look at the
companions of the Prophet sallallahu, alayhi wa salam, for
example, we have Asmaa did mais who, in Sahih al Bukhari, she was
a woman who did the Hijra twice. She moved to Abyssinia, and then
she moved to Medina many years later, and she was with Hafsa, the
daughter of Amma RadiAllahu, anhuma, and Omar enters, and he's
like, trying to figure out who Asmaa is. And then when he
realizes that he was like, Oh, she's the one who came on on the
ship, like, she's the one who came like, all this, all this time
later. And he tells her, we were with the Prophet sallallahu,
alayhi wa sallam before you, but they migrated to Medina before she
did. Therefore we have more of a right to the Prophet sallallahu,
alayhi wa salam, than you do when a person of all our status, he's a
person of paradise, he's a person who is known to be intense and at
the same time, he has a very soft heart. But like we see if if a
male in an Islamically righteous position in leadership. Said
something like this, how many of us, because of the way, you know,
many Muslim women have been raised culturally or seen in their
misegi, they would simply say, okay, even if internally, I'm
struggling with that message, I don't have the vocabulary to
respond. I hear a lot about this, like women having specific
responsibilities, daughters and their sons not having those
responsibilities. Like, those are specific cultures. That's not
religion, and it's not all Muslim culture, but like when we see, you
know, asmaaz reaction. Her reaction was so intense. She
responded to Amarillo, the Allah anhu, and she was like, You are
with the Prophet sallallahu, alaihi, and he, like, taught you.
He fed you, he was with you, and we were so far away. And I'm gonna
go to the Prophet peace be upon him, and I'm gonna tell him what
you said. I'm gonna tell it like it is. And when she went to the
Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, the Prophet peace be upon
him, his reaction was that Alma radila and his companions do not
have more of a right to me than you do. And he told her that they
have the reward of one migration, and she and her companions have
the reward of migrating twice. And Abu Musab Ashari, who's like a
great companion amongst the Companions, he came to her and
asked her about this. And then he and the Companions who were with
him, they can, they just came back and wanting to hear this over and
over and over. And so like, when we see how she used her agency of
voice in the midst of someone who, you know, is a figure of power in
the Muslim community, Revelation was revealed because of Ahmad Ali
Khan who, like, he's a he's a very incredibly, you know, powerful and
righteous and a person of paradise. I definitely would have
been like, I am so sorry. I'm gonna walk away. But like, No, her
reaction was like, I have a right to be here. I have a space, I have
and I'm gonna go to the authority figure. Who? What did he do?
Salalah Harley, with Salam. He changed policy. How did he change
policy? By that statement, because now how did the Companions read?
Act to the people who made hijra twice. How did that give the
people who made hijra twice a feeling of upliftment and
empowerment? So like when we talk about, how do we raise our
daughters and our sons? We raise them on the Sunnah, obviously, but
we also do that in the lens of what it meant to be a female
companion. Because, like, for example, there's this book called
called Tahirih Sela, which is like the liberation of women in the
time of the prophet of message, salaam. It is so powerful because
he, this author started, this scholar, started by just wanting
to do a Sierra. And then as he got through it, he reckon, he realized
that, like this, that's volumes, that's six volumes long. That's
incredible. You realize that there are so many narrations of women
and like, there's nothing in this like that we have easy access to
in this viewpoint of who were the companion of the Prophet
sallallahu San even though we do have so many scholars who have
written about this over time, and we have like, Imam medic, Imam
Ashe Ibn Hajar, Ibn Hazm, they were all taught by women. Like the
men we quote, were taught by women. Ibn taymiy was taught by a
woman like the point is, when we raise our daughters to know
Islamic history, to know the Companions, I hear from a lot of
women who are raised saying that, you know, their role is to become
a wife and a mother. And that is beautiful. Of course, you know
being a wife and a mother is so wonderful. When you feel supported
in that space, when you have the support and you want to be there,
it is a beautiful, healing, empowering place. But when we look
at Asmaa, the daughter of Abu Bakr radima, we know her as the
daughter who carried provision to Abu Bakr on the Papa saluha. They
saw them when they were making Hijra. What we don't talk about is
the fact that she was in her third trimester of pregnancy, like, why
aren't we addressing the fact that in the third trimester of
pregnancy, she is walking in the desert carrying provision? She's
known as having the two belts because she ripped, she ripped her
own clothing so that she could create this and like, why aren't
we talking about women's roles in that lens? Why aren't we raising
our daughters with that lens that, yes, like, you have a role to
serve God, like Allah tells us we were created only to worship him.
Worship comes in the form of being the most amazing wife, being the
most amazing mother, and it also comes as not and why don't we
nuance those conversations when we raise our daughters so that and
our sons so that? Inshallah, we have men and women who are ready
to take on the responsibilities of supporting one another as allies.
As the Quran specifically says in sorts of Toba, the men and women
are allies to one another. That is the type of reflection we should
see in our communities. That was so beautifully said. You know, a
lot of times, yeah, we do only see our faith in the lens of like,
just upholding, uplifting women who are married, who have created
families, and then everybody outside of that is feels less than
and then it's almost like we hold now, we start to hold this
resentment towards our faith. We start to distance ourselves from
our faith because we're being taught incorrectly. We're not
being told these stories. It's so sad and unfortunate that I don't
know stories of the female companions. I didn't even know
they honestly existed until I came across your page. Not to put that
weight and responsibility on you, but you've just enlightened me so
much through everything that you've taught. And I was like, I
can believe at my age, at this point in my life, where I thought
I knew my faith, and I'm very close to my faith, and I love, I
love being a practicing Muslim. I try my hardest to do my best in
whatever capacity, but it's like I didn't even know female companions
existed. How beautiful would it have been for me to be raised? And
I don't want to put this pressure on my parents, because, you know,
they went through the same thing. They probably they weren't raised
with this knowledge, either. So it's not up to my parents. I guess
it's just as a community as a whole. How can we do better? How
can we be better? How can we as an ummah do better? It's like, I wish
when I was younger, I was raised with these stories of the female
companions, it would have just completely transformed, I think,
my life, the way I even am, as a person, my confidence, a lot of us
lack self esteem. We really do, and sometimes it's rooted in our
faith, and not because of our faith, but it's the way we were
taught. Alhamdulillah, like I'm just so, so grateful to be born a
Muslim, to be to have to follow a faith that does empower women,
honestly, that's just the most beautiful gift that one can have.
So what do you have to say in regards to just female companions.
How can we learn more about them? What resources are there? And I
really want to talk about your story, if you're okay with that,
because I know it's a little bit emotional. Is when you laughed at
somebody's joke, I think it was a classmate's joke, and you thought
you were a good Muslim just for laughing at a joke, because we
thought that was just the wrong thing to do. Can we talk about it?
Because a lot of times in our lives, we do feel like we're like,
treading this fine line of being too Western and not and forgetting
our faith. And can I laugh? Can I be confident? Can I do we don't
know like, what is permissible in Islam and what is not?
Unfortunately, we have taught women modesty in this very warped
lens where it's afraid of ourselves. We're afraid of our
personalities. We are taught that.
Like everything we do is immodest. We have this obsession with
modesty in our community. And instead of focusing on building a
relationship with Allah and what are God's names, how is he Allah,
dude, the source of how is he as the source of peace? How is he the
one who is watching and caring for you? How is he Allah Adil, the
just, instead of focusing on who Allah is, instead of focusing on
our relationship with the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Even
growing up, like, when I would hear companions, I wanted to be
like Khalid Ibn Walid, like in the battle like, that's my
personality. Like, yes, on the front lines. Like, that's what I
want to do, Bilal Radi Allahu anhu, like Subhanallah, the way
that he would stand and give the event. And I'm not, this is not a
discussion on women giving the event. I do not hold the
disclaimer, yeah, in public is very different from giving the
event for the message that is not okay, but the point and that we
can talk about why in a different discussion. But the point is like,
these are the people I felt like I connected with and then when I
would hear lectures about women, it was only to talk about Ayesha
radiAllahu anha as a mother, excuse me, as a wife. Khadija.
RadiAllahu anha, yes, she was a businesswoman. Let's talk about
Islam giving Muslim women rights, because Khadijah radiah Wasn't
businesswoman, and Islam gave rights before Europe gave rights,
and then we don't even give the most basic rights in our own
message. So it's like, we'll tokenize Khadija as a
businesswoman, but if a woman wants to work, it's like, no,
no. And unfortunately, again, that's cultural, that's not
religious, and that's not the norm in many Muslim communities. I
don't want to make that feel like, you know that's the reality, but I
will say that I am approached by women who are victims of domestic
violence in their marriages. Trigger warning for what I'm about
to say. They have been slapped, they have been choked when they go
to Imams explaining what happens. More than one woman has told me
they have been told to be go home, be patient, pray harder, try
harder, maybe try to seduce him in a different way. These are so
belittling. They're so disgusting. And when I tell them that they
should have every single right to know that they can leave this is
against our religion, did God create you just to punish you
because of your gender? The Quran talks about marriage being a place
of mawada and rahma, of love and mercy, that you are supposed to
find tranquility in one another, to go to a person in religious
leadership, to have the courage to speak up for yourself and your
children, and then to be told to just go back. When I've told women
who have approached me that they have a right to be they have told
me I'm the only person who has told them this before. When
someone tells me, when you tell me that you're the first person I've
heard talk about companions who are women. I'm humbled, but it
shatters me like, Why? Why? When I grew up, the male companions were
the people I wanted to be like when I heard about the female
companions, it was to talk about faulty model de la Juan ha as a
daughter, Ayesha radi la Juan ha as a wife, and Khadija radiah as a
businesswoman, wife, mother, that was it like I shuttle de la junta
and her, you know, modesty with the way that she covered. That's
it. And these women have those qualities. Yes, let us celebrate
those qualities, as we already do, but to obsess over those qualities
without balancing it out with the fact that um atya Physically
defended the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in Ohad, that
Asmaa royal, she fought, as well as more than 30 female companions
in different battles, the fact that um haram asked the Prophet
sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to pray for her to join a battle in
the future that he predicted that he prophesized would happen, and
it did happen after he passed away, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,
and she asked him to pray that she will be with those people who go
on that battle. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam didn't
tell her. You know, it would be better if you just stayed at home.
It will be better if you prayed that you could get the reward
without participating. He prayed. He accepted her prayer, and she
joined that delegation that went on that battle, and she passed
away in that process. May Allah sponge accept her as a martyr when
we think about the woman who were our fore mothers, when we talk
about them in this lens, we heal woman. We don't make it about this
is your identity, because you're a quote unquote Western liberal
feminist. Quote unquote. That phrase dismisses everything,
because in our community, those words are.
So loaded. We don't use them in ways that people mean them outside
of Muslim spaces. We use them to mean you are so influenced by your
cultural reality around you that you're willing to change your
religion. When, in reality, when we take the opinions that we talk
about, that I talk about, I am literally quoting someone like
Imam Abu jaidemi, like I'm quoting people who existed 700 800 900
years ago, 1000 years ago, men who existed, who were taught by women,
who had women as their students. And then the reaction is the soul,
your O soul to just dismiss woman's pain by saying you're a
feminist, and that's why you're impacted by these thoughts is a
reflection of your ignorance of the reality of hundreds of years
of centuries of male scholarship who were taught by one then the
opinions that we're talking about allowing our community spaces to
have women's voices, not just on women's topics, which is at least
a step forward, but also just present, because this is our norm,
allows our daughters, who are growing up in a in a society where
women have access to everything, but they don't even know how to
access a scholar, she almost seem up for Mel. She founded the
Mejlis. She mentioned to me once, like, at least 10 years ago, may
Allah, bless her, because she put this idea in my head that I just
keep thinking about, like, why don't we have women who are female
resident scholars as part of every Masjid. You can have the imam who
leads prayers. But an imam as important as his role is, it
doesn't mean he has the most knowledge. It just means he leads
prayers. Anyone with Quran can lead prayers. We can have Masha
Allah. We can have the imam who can lead, he can give classes. He
can be a great, incredible scholar. We can also hire a
resident woman who is a teacher, who is a scholar, who teaches
classes, who is accessible. If we all grew up going to a masjid
where men and women were religious leaders, the way that we look at
these issues would be so different. And also, I want to
clarify, many times, women are the one who who pass on very traumatic
ideas. And that was my experience. Alhamdulillah, my parents were so
supportive of me as a woman. They constantly were like, You need to
be in spaces of scholarship, because we need women in
scholarship. I got so excited to study Islam, I found, you know,
may Allah bless the random sisters who I approached the NA Masjid.
They hadn't studied Islam. They took a few classes here and there,
read Islam Q and A. They practice Islam culturally. Their views are
very specific about a woman's role. This is where I learned that
all of the things I had been involved with in the past are
absolutely not permissible, that it's best for me. You know, like
you mentioned, I had a male classmate who made a joke. I
laughed for like three seconds. I spent the next very long time
begging Allah's forgiveness. I miss class. I stopped researching.
I spent years repenting for that moment like that came from OCD,
like spiritual OCD that was ingrained in me by women and may
Allah bless them. I don't blame them, because that's what they
understood as the best form of worship. But the problem is, if
they're the only people you're exposed to, and then your life
becomes you make Waldo seven times before you can pray, and then you
make up Maghrib six times because you don't know if you had enough
concentration. That spiritual OCD, if you can't leave your house
because you're not sure if you're dressed modestly enough when
you're practically wearing the Khab, that's spiritual OCD, like
we need to address the fact that people have trauma, that we come
to our religious spaces seeking healing, and we need men and women
who are people of knowledge, who are trained to say, I'm not a
therapist, but we have Muslim therapists you can go to, because
half the questions that I receive are not about whether or not their
Salah was valid or a question. It's they're experiencing some
sort of trauma, and they think that God is not listening to them
because their answers are not their prayers are not answered,
when, in reality, you just need to talk to a therapist process,
whatever it is you're going through. This isn't about God
punishing you. This is about you just needing help professionally,
and I think being able to create spaces where we have women who are
present, who are trained to simply be able to direct people, men and
women direct people to professional services that we have
as a part of our community. Child.
Allah, we will begin to see so much healing in our community.
Instead of couching the conversation as this is a
punishment from God, and that's why you're going through this, we
can couch it in this is an opportunity for you to grow as an
individual and heal, whether because you've been wronged or
you've done wrong, and Inshallah, in that process, you will come out
as a more whole believer, and Inshallah, the more that we heal
one another, we will find our communities healing. That was so
insightful, and that was so helpful, because a lot of us
women, you know, for me, I've said this before, I behave in the way
and what I identify as. And first and foremost, I identify myself as
a Muslim woman before anything, before being Palestinian, before
whatever. I'm a Muslim woman, so a lot of my decisions have been
based upon being Muslim, and it's so difficult sometimes when you're
trying to make these decisions and you're not, you don't know if
you're practicing your faith in the correct manner or not. When I
had opened up my inbox to women wanting to ask you questions, I
was like, what questions do you have for a medium and for I can't
thank you enough for even just being a guest on this podcast and
just exp just expressing all this, it's very, very helpful. Majority
of the women were like, I don't know if I'm living my life
correctly. Imagine being debilitated by that thought every
single day in the smallest of actions that you're doing every
single day. But majority of them are also in marriages that they
don't know that if they're living life the right way, because
they're like, we're living in the West, but we're practicing
Muslims, and sometimes I feel like I'm being shunned for being
independence, but I am in a marriage. I do want to do right by
my spouse, but I also want to make sure that I'm doing right by
myself as well, and giving myself agency over who I am and and how I
want to be and what I want to do. And sometimes, yeah, it's tricky,
because sometimes these Hadith, these lectures, are being given
from the perspective of male lens. And I'm not saying all male
scholars or imams are incorrect, but sometimes, yeah, it can be
seen from their perspective. And there is some language that could
be used that's just like, makes us feel a little bit belittled when
some people say women are emotional and that's how they you
know, that's how they describe us. But what I'm getting at is a lot
of women want to know what relevant sources to find in
regards to how to live their life as a practicing Muslim, but also
having agency over their body and doing right, because a lot of
times we're just told the wrong things, or we're being culturally
raised with these norms that do not align with our faith
whatsoever. Again, to no one's fault. It's not to my parents
fault, and I don't want to keep continuous to put even that
disclaimer out there. I mean, our parents did the best that they
could, but it's like, I don't want to pass this misknowledge down to
the next generation, the next generation after that. How can we
heal? And oftentimes it's like, yeah, we do look at a woman as her
physical appearance, and I don't want to get into the hijab.
There's so many discussions out there about hijab and there. And
like you said, there's just so much obsession. When do we get to
the point where we work on our spiritual core? What sources do we
have to work on ourselves, on the inside and out, knowing that I am
following my faith in the correct manner and not through the
cultural lens of our society. Yes. So I just want to, you know, do
make a correction of a word that I think is really important to use
intentionally. So it's not that woman who follows certain opinions
are wrong, it's that they're following a difference of opinion.
And I think when you look at that, it's like, am I living my my life
long, in the religious perspective, if I choose a
particular opinion that is so contextual, it just depends on
your situation, your relationship, what your goals are like, you
know, that's so different for each person. But I just want to make
sure that we're not negating the fact that, you know, there are
opinions that have specific places for women to be, and that's
acceptable. There are also other opinions that have them in other
places, and that is also acceptable. And what's important
for us is that when we teach our community, we are not only
teaching this as this is the only opinion that's acceptable, it's
there are differences of opinion, and Alhamdulillah for that,
because you can now choose to see how you can best worship God. Is
that going to come through you? Being a full time Mother, is that
going to come through you? Being a full time worker, is that going to
become come through you? Being a full time caretaker for your
parents, whatever your reality, Allah has facilitated so many
doors for you to feel close to him through what your priorities are.
How can we find our relationship with Him bolstered and feel like
we are on solid footing and the decisions that we make? There are
three texts that I really recommend in English. The first
one is called reflecting on the names of Allah. Reflecting on the
names of Allah. It is by, I've heard that one. Yes, it is by Jean
Ann Youssef. She is actually an incredible friend of mine. It is
so beautiful. It talks about, who Allah is, how the names of Allah
apply to your particular circumstance. She talks about, how
does this name of God apply to your life. What does this mean in
these types of situations? It's very real. And if you just take a
name of allah a week read one name, it's going to take you like
three minutes that week call to Allah by that name. When you read
about who Allah is, who is this ally, this guardian?
You pray to him by that name through that week, the next week
to take another one pray to him by that name. Knowing who he is
allows us to recognize that when we're being wronged, this isn't
coming from religion. Something is happening that isn't something
that is coming from Islam. I don't need to put up with this because
Islam is asking me to deal and experience and be okay with being
taken advantage of just because of my gender. No, that's not who Alad
is. And this also happens in regards to divorced women. A lot
of women don't know how to even just navigate life after being
divorced within our community, within our society. They carry
this burden as well, even after leaving their abuser or just even
just a marriage that they just didn't want to be a part of
anymore. And when you know that, you know, when you know who is
with you in that process, because of course it matters what people
say. Of course it's going to impact you to say that I don't
care what people say is unrealistic. We are going to hear
what people say, and it will impact us at times, and that's
okay, but is that going to be what pushes us to make future
decisions? That's the point. Like, I'm not going to allow cultural
misunderstandings. Look at the companions of the Prophet. Peace
be upon him. Companions of Prophet, holy seven got divorced.
They got remarried. They didn't get married. They got remarried,
they got divorced and never got married again. I mean, it was,
this is life, right? Like, this is human. This is being human.
Relationships are going to fluctuate. But like, when you know
who God is, no matter what your relationship status is, you always
have a relationship with God. The way that people have expectations
of you, or what they think because of their misunderstanding of you
isn't as intense. So the first one is just knowing who Allah is. The
second book that I recommend is a book on the Sira. It's called
Muhammad Manan, Prophet, peace be upon him, by a Salahi. It's like
over 800 pages, but the book is so beautiful because you feel like
you're with the Prophet. Peace be upon him. You feel like you're
walking with Him. You feel like you're living with him. And the
first few chapters are a little more dry, but the more you get
into it, the more you feel like this is a prophet of mercy. This
is the prophet who was sent to perfect character, and this is a
prophet peace be upon him who I want to be like, and is healing
for me. So when you hear a narration that is used, that is
abused, misused, misapplied from the Prophet, peace be upon him to
unfortunately, many times hurt woman, then you look at that, and
you're like, This is not the Prophet, sallAllahu, alayhi wa
salam, that I know, and maybe the context in which this hadith is
being misapplied. Is the problem not the Hadith itself? And then I
can look at what does this hadith actually So, differentiating who
he was with the actions, peace be upon him, of people who use his
name to unfortunately very you know, often push women into
specific positions. And sometimes those are even people of
knowledge, sometimes those are even scholars. But we also have to
recognize, like when you hear the words of a scholar and it really
hurts you look at that in a context, because, for example, I
have a paper coming out inshallah addressing Hadith that is
unfortunately misunderstood, and at times, unfortunately can be
used to justify marital *, and that hadith is so healing, it
actually gives women so much agency. But when you look at it
without context, and when you look at it without recognizing the
comprehensive understanding of the narration, a person could simply
misuse it and and and justify their abuse of it. And so like,
you're going to even have people who are scholars who maybe their
scholarship is in a different area. Like, just because a person
is a scholar of tafsir does not mean they're a scholar of Shafiq,
you know, a scholar of Maliki Phil does not make them a scholar of a
different soul. So like, we have to recognize that just because a
person of knowledge says something doesn't mean that they're speaking
out of their, you know, depth of understanding of all of Islam,
that might not be an area that they are a scholar of, and in that
case, we shouldn't speak.
But when, when you hear scholars to make statements like that,
like, okay, compare that to the Quran and the Sunnah and the
accumulation of scholars throughout history. Does that
statement hold weight? Or is that an opinion that maybe, like, three
people hold versus hundreds of scholars who understood it in a
certain way? So knowing who the Prophet sallallahu sallam was
helps us navigate it. You know the challenges that we feel to our
faith when we come across narrations that just don't make
sense to us. At times, we don't have to say, this narration
doesn't exist. We can say, How can I understand what the context
actually was knowing what the Prophet sallallahu, sallam was as
someone who consistently validated listen?
Into and always made space for women's voices and access. And
then the third thing is the book Al muhaddi fats, that was written
by a scholar who mashaAllah. He just released a compilation of, I
believe it's over 9000 female Hadith scholars in history. And
the book is in English. It's al muhadita. The is the introduction
to that index. It's maybe like 300 400 page book, but it talks about
companions of the Prophet. Peace be upon him. And in the centuries
that came women who were scholars, who were Hadith scholars, who
taught, and he makes a statement by Dr Sheik Mohammed. Akram
naduli. He makes a statement, may Allah protect him and bless him
that there was no scholar who was a woman who had a family and had
responsibilities to her husband and her children, who, if she was
able to balance those responsibilities with teaching
that she would never stop teaching. We have Sheik Fatima
that he mentions. There are a number of Sheikha Fatima in his
book, but one of them who was raised, I believe, she was born in
China. She was raised by her father, who was a scholar, to
become a scholar, and then she married a scholar. And this, this
the man she married, Alhamdulillah, his recognition of
her importance, he supported her work. Men and women from around
the world would travel just to hear her narrations. So this is
one example of literally 1000s, and when we see that that's part
of our history, then we say we don't make statements like, where
are the female scholars? Or, why don't we have female scholars? Or,
you know, we need more female scholars. Like, yes, we do. Where
we are right now is not our norm in Islamic history. We need to go
back to our norm, which is female scholarship, being part of our
being just normal. Not just where are they, it's they're here.
They're everywhere. We are here. We have been here. We are not
going anywhere. And Inshallah, our communities can help create spaces
for women's voices to be amplified. Inshallah, honestly,
this was such a powerful conversation. And I think
knowledge, applied knowledge, is super powerful. You can hold this
knowledge within you, but applying it is just a whole different
story, and I think it's beautiful. And Inshallah, we can continue
applying the knowledge that we that we grasp. And I think it is
important for us to also do our own due diligence and go out there
and find these books and read these texts. And I can't thank you
enough for recommending this, because I think majority of the
women that reached out to me, they just want relevant sources. They
just want to know where they can find the stories of female
companions and stories of female scholars. I think it's incredible.
And and yeah, sometimes it's like, yeah, you finally feel seen within
your own community. And when you feel seen, you feel more
validated. You have a lot of your unanswered questions answered now,
and I think that's something that we definitely should work on as a
community. And we are, and I you know people like you and all the
other women that you've also mentioned, like such as Dr Tamara,
great, like you guys are incredible, and we can't thank you
enough for for doing this and for spearheading this and for talking
about these conversations. And it's difficult. It's honestly
difficult conversations to have. It's one thing to have a voice,
but to also amplify your voice and allow your voice to be heard and
to reach the masses. Inshallah, but I can't thank you enough said
this so many times, but honestly, I'm truly indebted to you and your
knowledge and just what you've shared with me and just this
conversation. And I know you're just such a very humble person,
but truly, you honestly have made a positive impact on so many
women. Is there anything else you just want to leave off with any
piece of advice for any woman that is seeking knowledge or just
sometimes feels a little alone or unsure if she's making the right
choices in the religious context, and sometimes we do as women, feel
like a burden, and we're truly not. And our Faith says otherwise,
completely otherwise. So if there's anything else you want to
leave off with, yes, I want to leave you with resources. So I
mentioned some institutes that you can enroll in and be become
students with. This is so important. You are going to read
books, and that's wonderful, but you need consistent mentorship
from people who are invested in you. I mentioned a few institutes
earlier, and there are names like ustada, Shazia Ahmed said, Amina
Darwish, you have usted, Karani USA, Layla Graham. There are so
many women who have written children's books, like Sheikha Ali
adada, Sheikha Suzanne darani, we have a set of hasidity like so
many women who are doing this type of work, who are accessible on
social media, and I didn't even list like only God's pal. Forgive
me everyone for not thinking of everyone's names, but we're gonna
create a list, Inshallah, that I can share with them, I think,
because, honestly, it's a lot to put you on the spot right now and
make you share all these sources, because I know you're truly
connected with all these incredible women, and I've had the
pleasure of sitting with has too, and she mashallah, such a
beautiful conversation. Yeah, there are so many women, and
that's why I just want to tell you that I'm tripping over my mouth.
Trying to give you resources, because Dr Rania Awad, for
example, like women who are scholars, and they're not just
scholars in Islamic in the realm of Islamic sciences, yes, they
are, but they also are involved in other fields as well, and they
merge their Islamic understanding with our daily lives, knowing that
you have this like, you know, posse of women who are there for
you, who are there to support you, even if it's like their existence,
know that you are not alone. And that's hanala Allah. He knew that
he created you the way He created you for a reason. You are a part
of this ummah, because he chose to make you a part of this ummah,
because of what? Because Allah tells us how to be the minister on
our team. Allah says
he chose you. Why did he choose you? Because he knows that there's
something inside of you that this ummah can benefit from and Aslam
did not come to you our personalities. It came to enhance
the people that we are to become better versions of ourselves as we
reached for Allah. So know that you have worth. You are worthy.
Your voice is needed. And Inshallah, through the mentorship
and through the therapy support, you will find who you are and what
your role is inshallah. And people can find you on social media, on
Instagram, the Miriam emir, I'm gonna link everything. And you
said you also have videos on YouTube as well too. Yeah. So if
you look up my name, M, A R, Y, a m, a m, I R, I have videos on
YouTube lectures. I just joined tick tock, the Miriam Amir, and
also on Instagram and also on Facebook, and you can message me
Inshallah, and I would be so honored to support you through
your process. Inshallah, thank you so much. Honestly, it's just been
such an honor to have you on here. It's just it's such a beautiful
conversation, and I absolutely love faith based conversations and
empowering conversations like this. I can literally go on for
hours and hours, but I can't. Thank you enough. I can't wait for
people to listen to this episode, I know for a fact they'll benefit.
Inshallah, they do benefit from this. And Inshallah, we continue
to witness your your success, your growth. And Inshallah, you can
continue to share your knowledge with us. Inshallah, we can only
grow as a community. Honestly, I just, I'm very optimistic. I think
we're moving in the right direction. It's just we need a
little bit guidance, a little bit more push and just a little bit
more solidarity with one another and just being there for one
another. Honestly, I think that's the most important thing. But
thank you. Thank you so much. Miriam, thank you. It's been such
an honor. Bottle of Seacom. You.