Debate with Al-Mu’tasim
Kamal El-Mekki – Life of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal #05
AI: Summary ©
The segment discusses various topics related to Islam, including the use of shackles and the lack of knowledge of the Bible, the confusion surrounding Islam's knowledge of the internet and media, the use of shackles and the lack of knowledge of the Bible, the use of shackles and the lack of knowledge of the Bible, the use of narratives and references to the Prophet's statement about the "has been a vder of the Arabicipping," and the dispute between the media and the media.
AI: Summary ©
Salam Alaikum Salam
ala Rahim al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen wa salatu salam ala rasulillah Amin.
He will be here Jemaine about Thank you for tuning in. We're continuing with the life of Imam Muhammad ibn Hanbal Rahim Allah. And if you remember what happened last time was they were it was just in the end the amount of mothers in Hamburg or himolla, and a young man and a student of knowledge by the name of Mohammed know, and they were taken to meet the hollyford Moon. And a servant comes in crying, saying that he has prepared a sword and that he's going to kill you. And he makes a draw. And right after you finish making the data, they hear loud noises, and they receive the news of the death of the moon. And so instead of letting them go free, they sent them back to
about that. And they still kept them in custody until the new halifa. And mortal sin decides what he's going to do with them.
And we mentioned that they were trying people who are close to the Imam and some family members who are trying to get him to basically just say anything so he can be free. And we have this narration from Mohammed Ibrahim al Bhushan Ji he says, in Iraq, they began to remind about Abdullah which is Mr. Mohamad, about the allowance of verbally affirming to to save oneself, and the reports about that. So they're giving him the evidence that you can verbally say something just to save yourself from imprisonment to save yourself from punishment from death. So he replied, and what will you do with the hadith of hubbub, the companion kebab norat, when he came to the Prophet sallallahu sallam,
you know, this famous narration, he came to a neighbor's house. And he didn't complain about his situation by Kabbalah and who, you know his biography, he was the one who was tortured severely, severely. So he came to the element he didn't even complain. He says adhatoda will not make offers and at the stone seven Lehner once you make the offer victory for us, and the problem set up, and this is the part that Mr. hammertoe hemella quotes, amongst those who came before you, meaning from the nations before you, a man would be sawn in half, you'd be cut in half, but that would not cause him to abandon his religion. So the narrative says when Mr. Mohammed said that to us. So we gave up
hope concerning him, like there's no way to convince them like he's going to continue saying, What is correct, and he won't say anything to save himself. And he said, Now, Mr. Mohammed says, I do not mind imprisonment, since it and my house are the same, you know, meaning if I'm in my house, and I can't leave, it's the same like being in prison and I can't leave, nor about being beheaded. I don't have a problem with being killed either. But rather I feel the trial of the whip. And what's so beautiful is that you see that he is human that he has his fears that he has his weaknesses. He says what I'm really afraid of is the whip has never been whipped before. And he says that's my number
one fear not beheading not imprisonment. He says, it says then so a fellow prisoner overheard him saying that, and then he tells him so this is like a guy who got whipped before probably plenty of times. He says, don't be concerned about the law. Don't don't be concerned about that. For will only take two lashes then after that you won't even notice the rest of them strike you. So it's telling you from experience, I can tell you the first to hurt and after that you don't feel anything. And that brought peace to Mr. Mohamad Bahama Hola.
In the last class I mentioned the name humble as a narrator twice humble would say humble was this humble is the grandson of Imam Muhammad Rahim Allah so he also narrates a lot of these incidents here. Humble said about Abdullah who was imprisoned in the house of Ramallah in Baghdad in the stable of Amir, Muhammad Ibrahim, the brother of his hockaday, Brahim.
And he was severely restricted in his imprisonment and fell ill in Ramadan. Then after a short while he was moved to the general prison. He remained in prison for about 30 months. We used to come to him and he read the book of Iran to me, so this is his grandson, and his father, his grandfather in prison is still reading to him teaching him.
He says, while I while he was in prison, he read the book to me, I saw him lead the prayer and change he would take his foot out of the main monocle at the times of prayer and sleep. So they're all this time he's in prison. And they're waiting for him to finally meet the new halifa at Moto Z. And while he was in jail, besides leading, leading the the prisoners, people, you know, and other things, he did have some interesting experiences. One One of the stories that is really beautiful. And you can you can imagine now these prisons like it's really hot in Baghdad, and there are no fans, no air conditioning, it's just you sitting in this
Sell with no airflow. Can you imagine the thirst one with experience there? So one time he got thirsty, and he asked for water. So they brought him water with ice. So they used to transport ice from mountains and from cold areas. And and they would have it basically. So they brought him water with ice. Can you imagine? Like, what? How valuable water with ice would be at that time? Like not like today, ice is everywhere. So he he said, Do you have water with ice for me and those who are with me in prison? They said no, we don't have enough water and ice for everybody. He said then he refused it. He said, so how can I drink water with ice? Well, those who are with me Do not. And just
look at how selfless and oh, and how, you know, just very decent and he could have just had it and no one would have blamed him. You know, he's older than them. He's weaker and scholar, everyone, the thieves and everyone around him would have said you know what, go ahead, drink it, enjoy it to him. And they all respected him the thieves and the crooks, whoever was in jail, they all respected him and he was a mom in the Salah. And they know his position in society. They would have said drink Don't worry about it. But he refused. Like how can I drink water with ice and everyone else can't get that. So he refused.
His uncle is Huck have been humbled, entered upon him and he would try to debate with him and argue with him to just say something so he can gain his freedom. He says he tells him say what they want. And why do you suffer Allah, Allah allowed you to say whatever you want to free yourself. And other scholars responded to them and they went free and you can do the same thing. Just say what they want to say. And then you can go free but of course, Rahim Allah, he refused. So now we talk about him who is now the new halifa and moto Sim. He was different than in that morning, we said that he loved studies and loved discussion and loved a knowledge. But an moto sim was different and moto Sim. He
was a basically he didn't care much for Phillip or for knowledge. He was strictly a soldier. That's what he was. And, unfortunately, he also took the views of the martyrs Zilla about the creation of the Koran. He also kept Mohammed Abu ad and others in his cabinet, as we say today or in his government.
But the only difference now is that it's going to be more difficult upon the Imam, because this is someone who is not as knowledgeable, just a soldier, someone who is very rough and military.
We have this narration when it was Ramadan, the 17th of Ramadan, which Mr. Mohammed says I was transported to the house of his heart, Ebrahim, if you remember who that was right? He's the chief of police, as we call it, or he was the governor of Baghdad in the absence of the halifa. He says I was transported to the house of his hakob neighbor him while I was chained with one chain. And everyday two men would come to me. And they were I'm an urban Raja and Abu Ghraib and hjem. And they were sent by the governor to talk to me and to debate with me. And when they finished, they would call for another shackle to be added to those already upon me. So he was he has these chains on him.
These two people come debate with him when it's over this Okay, add some to his change. So they would put a shot and other shackle on top of what he already had secondary debate with him then they would ask for another shackle. And then the third day they would debate with him and ask for another shot shackle. He says then, so that so that there were four upon my legs for chains. Now, three days of debate, he had the original one and every day they add another chain.
We look at a little bit of the description of these debates. He says, the man he asked me Mohamad is narrating he says he asked me, How do you say that the Quran is the speech of Allah. And Allah is not likened to anything on to anything and human beings speak. So he's saying, How can you say the Quran is a speech of Allah, when we don't compare a lot to his creation, and his creation, human beings they speak. So they're saying if humans speak, than Allah doesn't speak for Allah. So Muhammad responded, look at his response. He says, do humans have knowledge? And the man said, Yes, he said, so how could a lot have knowledge? You're saying if humans have something Allah doesn't
have it? So humans have knowledge and allows not like his creation? How can I have knowledge?
But then he continues or perhaps you think that Allah is knowledge is created? Because when they said that Allah can't speak the Quran became created. So now you're saying a lot of knowledge is created that way he's not like human beings. So the man says yes, Allah is knowledge is created. So I'ma tells him Yeah, coffee, comfort. He says, You have disbelieved. You just left Islam.
How would you say that Allah knowledge is created? So Allah had stuff for Allah, he's saying Allah had is asking him, Allah had no knowledge until he created it. So until he created his knowledge, he had no knowledge at all. And how could he create it without knowledge? Meaning when he had no knowledge, how did he create his knowledge? If he didn't have any Understand? How did you have the knowledge to create your knowledge if you didn't have any? So that is hackable Ibrahim he used to send a messenger with them, like he used to send like a guard with these two men who would debate him every night. So he says the messenger of his haka, for him was standing. So he says to me, now
he got angry. He doesn't really know understand the debate too well, it's just like a guard, you know. So he's standing there, and he hears Imam Ahmed, tell that man, that you're confident, so he tells him this is the messenger of ameerul momineen. But how can you call him a cafr ameerul momineen sent this man to you so much more than looks at this guard. And he says to him, he has said that Allah that Allah subhanaw taala, his knowledge is created.
That's all he said to him. And then he says, Mr. Mohammed says, so the man looked at the one who is debating me, in a way showing this approval over what he said. So now, he is just watching this debate when Mr. Mohammed explained to him what that man said, even though a few minutes ago, he's saying he's the messenger of I mean, how can you call him a golfer? Now? He just kept looking at him giving him these looks showing disapproval. What on earth is this that you're saying?
So Mohammed said, Whoever thinks that the Quran is created, he is a Catherine and whoever thinks that the knowledge of Allah is created, he is a conference, and whoever thinks that the Quran is or like the knowledge of iPhone, that the names of Allah are created, he is a Catholic.
And this then continues until the fourth night, after Isha prayer. So
fourth night after Isha prayer, toss him then gave orders to his harkaman. Ibrahim saying, bring a hammer Dibnah humbled to me.
So he was then first taken to the governor is Hakeem Ibrahim. And he says, so I was entered upon his heart. And he said to me, yeah, it is what law he are sold. The price you're gonna pay, it's your soul, meaning you're gonna be killed.
He is sworn he meaning the hollyford motto says he is sworn to kill you with the sword and beat you severely, and to put you in a place where you will not see the sunlight.
So he's trying before he sends them off to a Moto, simply tell him you're gonna die, and he's sworn to kill you and beat you. So it's half then Ibrahim. He wants to give it a try himself with him before sending him to the halifa. So maybe he'll, you know have some make some progress. So he tells him Ahmed has not Allah subhanaw taala said in the Quran, in Jana who are earning Arabi. We have made it an Arabic Quran
said yes. He said Jana who he made it is not anything that is much rule. Mahalo. He said me isn't everything that is made created.
And so okay, how would you answer that question? We have made it an Arabic Quran. So things that are made are created. So he's asking, if it's made its creator, that's not the case. And the answer is like this has not Allah Subhana Allah says in the Quran, Allah whom cause him cool, talking about the people the army of Abba, in certain fields. So for Jalla, whom he made them to resemble to look like an empty or, or a field of stocks after it was eaten. Just to give you a description of what the army looked like after it was destroyed, just like when you have a field of stocks, and then a huge herd of cattle enter it, and they eat and trample and crush everything. That field How does it
look anymore? Is it nice and standing like this are completely destroyed? So he's saying, did he create them another time? Mohammed is asking him when Allah Java home costume macoun did He create them another time? So he created the army all over again? Because you're saying majority is created? So when Allah Jalla whom did He create them in in this destroyed appearance the second time?
This is as per your argument, he created them all over again.
And as hobgoblin Brahim was quiet, he understood what that means.
So he had he, it was a failed attempt and he tells them, Take him away. He's gonna go down to meet multisim the new halifa so I said so my thoughts Allah has the son of young men so my father was taken,
and then he narrates from his father.
I was taken to the place known as the gate of the garden of the garden, Baba was done. And he said I was put on a riding animal in my chains. And on this trip he had with him to talk ministers of the Basset dynasty and a messenger from his Hakan Ibrahim, his name was Baba bahal. Kabir here. So
though so then Baba says in Persian, he's asking Mohammed Al mojari B, he asked him in Farsi in Persian. So he says, What do you want from this man
and Mohammed and how to be said to him, they want him to say that the Quran is created.
So, Baba says, I don't know any of these things. Like, it's like saying, I've never heard of that before. I don't know what that is. But he says eyeshadow, Allah ilaha illAllah Muhammad Rasul Allah, and I bear witness that there is no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger sallallahu sallam, and I also testify to the blood, the relationship of many to the prophet to the Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So he's saying tauheed Mohammed Salim is a messenger and I have loyalty. I mean, like, I don't know if no, but this whole Quran being created thing.
And it just shows even like this simple people understood, this is what Islam is about. We've never heard of anyone before saying the Quran is created, or that you have to put someone in chains and beat them to say the Quran is created.
He says so when I arrived at the shore, because he says we got on a boat there, right when they got to Babylon, Boston, they put them on a boat. So I was taken out of the boat, and I would many times almost fall upon my Actually, yeah, would many times almost fall on my face. Because the chains, the heavy four chains now, you know, arms, legs, everything. And he would almost follow him multiple times. It was not physically a very strong person. Until I was taken to a house, they entered me. And then they took me to a room. When I sat at an instance when I sat down, the door was closed and a guard was placed at the door. This was in the middle of the night and there was no light no lamps
or candles in the room. So I need to make wudu so a extended stretched out my hands reaching around in the pitch darkness looking for something to make well do with. And I found a vessel with water and a container. So I made Waldo and I got up to pray. So he spent his night in prayer.
He says then, in the morning, I took out the drawstring of my trousers, you know that string that goes around your trousers, you can tighten it, he says I took it out. And I tied my chain. So now you can imagine how many or how heavy and many the chains were like he couldn't be grabbing all of them. So he tied them up together. He bundled the chains up together with the the drawstring of his trousers. He says so I could carry them and I secured my trousers in another way.
He says, then the messenger of a moto sim came and said respond to his call, meaning his calling you respond to his call. So he took my hand and he entered me upon him. And I was holding the drawstring in my hand carrying the chains. I came to him and he was sitting at Hamad bin Abu ad was present and had gathered a large number of his companions. So a person said to me, come close, come close, he kept and continued until I was near him. So every time we got closer, Don't come close, come close. Then he said, sit. So I sat and the change had become heavy for me. So I was like relieved to finally Sit down. I remained for a while and then I said do you permit me to speak? So he said,
speak. Okay. Now we're going to stop here. Let's look at the same incident, but through the eyes of someone else through the eyes of an eyewitness who is narrating this. This has been eration of Suleiman said Zhi Suleiman has such deep, he says, I came to the door of a mortal sin, and the people had gathered at his door. And as if it were the day of eight, so many people like it's eat. All of them wanted to go in to see what the Imam would say. So I entered the house. He's saying what he saw now Now look, he says, I saw a map that was placed, and the chair. So I stood near the chair while I was standing, and Watson arrived, and he sat on the chair, and he took his shoes off, and he
put one leg on top of the other. And then he said bring must have been hammered.
So they brought him a hammer, when he was when he was
Standing in front of him, meaning when Mr. Mohammed was standing in front of the halifa
and greeted him, the halifa said to him, yeah, Ahmed speak, and do not be afraid.
And now Mr. Mohammed answers him, Mr. Ahmed said, Will La Jolla, ameerul momineen, I have entered upon you. And there is not the weight of a mustard seed of fear in my heart. Very brave. When he heard that, the halifa said, Come closer. So he got closer, and I'm not mad says and he continued to ask me to get closer and closer until I was close to him. And then he said, sit down, and I sat, and the change had burdened me. So now it's silence. And the discussion is about to start. So it began, he said, Do you give me permission to speak? And then multisim said, speak, he said, to what did the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam called people to? So the halifa says, He called them
to testify or the testimony of La ilaha illAllah Muhammad Rasulullah Allah Muhammad says, and now witness that Allah, Mohammed Rasul Allah, so he's saying the problem what is the problem call people to he's gonna call them to the most important things. And clearly the indirect message, there is no such thing as he had to or people had to believe that the Quran was created. He called people today that aloha masala and he's saying and I also bear witness died a long time ago sola, sola halifa was silent. Then I said to him, had an idea if necessary, and shaba call had destiny Abu Hamza horas, Mr.
Abbas bass.
He says, similar to a been a bass caller, the merger of two abductees in Nabi sallallahu sallam, Amara Hongbin, Imani Bella, for colorata Drona men a man Billa. So he starts narrate giving him this narration. And what's clever about the choice of narration is that it is from a bass. And remember, this is a Basset dynasty. So they're all from the family of Al Abbas here. So that's even more of a compelling or a strong argument here. So it tells him when a delegation from Abdullah case, came to the Prophet sallallahu sallam, he asked them Do you know what is a man Villa? You know what it is to believe in Allah corlew Allahu wa rasuluh alum they said Allah and His Messenger know best Kala
Shahada and La ilaha illAllah Muhammad Rasulullah to bear witness that there is no god worthy of worship except Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger sallallahu Sallam
what economists Allah and establishing Salah were eater is a waiter and to establish Zakah was on Ramadan, and to fast Ramadan. Were unto Hamza mineral Magnum, and that you give the fifth of the spoils of war.
So,
so he's showing in this narration that there is no mention of the creation of the Quran. And this is a narration from your, you know, you're the ancestor of this deaerator here. So then unlock doesn't look what he says. And you can see that he didn't really have a vested interest in pursuing this issue. He said to him, had I not found you in the hands of the one that was before me meaning and Moon, had you arrested and captured? Had I not found you in the hands of the one that was before me? I wouldn't have approached you. I wouldn't have taken your captured you or anything. I'm not interested basically. Then he turned to Magnus hub. And he says Jabra man, did I not announce? Did I
not command you to end the manor didn't tell you before and this whole trial of the equation of the Quran. So then saw the son of Mr. Muhammad he narrates my father says, I said to myself, Allahu Akbar, in if he had followed gentle muslimeen I said to myself, Allahu Akbar, this is a this is a great ease for the Muslims. So and then turned to Mr. Ahmed, and said, What do you say of the Quran? Imam Ahmed answered the speech of Allah. Kadeem who said something, something it's been there for a long time, something that's old or ancient, the speech of Allah khadim not created a large so again said we're in a hadoo, middle mushrikeen Raka who had Yes, McCallum Allah.
He gives him this verse in the Quran, where Allah subhanaw taala says, If anyone from the mushrikeen is the Jolokia and he asked you for protection for a juror who then offer him that protection until he hears the Kalam
Which means the speech until he hears the speech of Allah. So then he says, How will he hear the Kalam of Allah gave me How will you hear cunnamulla? By hearing the Quran, right? He's saying how will he hear the speech of Allah? What does that mean? By hearing the Quran which means the Quran is the speech of Allah.
He says, Therefore the Quran is the speech of a law, or do we bring a kadamba law besides the Quran? What is this verse saying? Until he hears the speech of Allah, you're telling me there's a speech of a love besides the Quran? What What is it then? Or it must be the Quran. So here and maltose him then he began to think and he said, Do you have a proof besides this?
Mohammed said yes, yeah mille meaning, the saying of Allah azza wa jal Ar Rahman AR llaman Koran are among the most merciful, taught the Quran
and the saying of Allah azza wa jal, or his saying, as the origin yacine Well, Quran in Hakeem yacine, and the Quran full of wisdom, and he didn't say he has seen well Koran, Al Maha look, and the Quran that's created. What he's trying to say, is telling him is that there is no verse and no Hadith that ever describes or and is being created. We have it being described as, you know, a clear Quran and Arabic Quran, a wise Koran, but nothing that ever says the Quran is created. So the halifa was shaken. And so he said, lock him up.
And then he started to talk to his advisors. And then the next day, so this was the end of day one. And the next day Mr. Mohammed was brought again, and the people gathered again.
The narrative says, I entered with them, and a mortal sin arrived and sat on his throne and said, Bring a hammer the hammer. So they brought him and when he stood between his hands between his hands, Jani beignet means in front of him. He said, How were you mad in your cell last night? Meaning, how did you spend the night when you're in your prison? So how was it? He said, you know, Muhammad response. He said, behave? What hamdulillah? He said, Good and hamdulillah. Then he took advantage of this moment, and he said, except that I saw your ameerul momineen in your prison, something very strange. So the halifa says, What did you see? He said, I got up in the middle of the
night, and I made Waldo and I prayed to rock out. And I prayed in one Raka Al hamdu, lillahi Rabbil aalameen, which means alpha, and pull out the Venus, and in the second one, Al hamdu, lillahi, Rabbil aalameen. And
then I sat down, and Tisha had was dumped, I made the Shahada and I made it to sleep. Then I got up and cobert I made I said Allahu Akbar.
And I recited Al hamdu, lillahi, rabbil, alameen and Fatah, and they wanted to recite on who Allah had, and I couldn't, then I made an effort to recycle any surah from the Quran, but I wasn't able. So I glanced at the corner of the room and low, the Koran was lying down dead. So I washed the Quran and wrapped it up and prayed over it, and I buried it. So the halifa then says, way Loki, Ahmed, what do you Ahmed does the Quran die? And he tells him that is what you say that it is created. And all that is created dies meaning all that is created has an end, everything created has an end. So
here with shaken, and he says Corona, Corona, Ahmed Ahmed has destroyed us. Ama destroyed us. And it just shows you like he was not at the level of more than just all the arguments he gave him before and he's unmoved Then he told me no Quran died last night and I have a destroy this
and the position his position was shaken now.
So he says another modernism says debate with him speak to him. Then he turned to a Brahmin, he says, Yeah, madness, ha, speak to him. So that might have been his Huck stood up. And he said, Yeah. What do you say of the Quran? Like he wants to start all over? starting fresh? He said, What do you save the Quran? Ahmed says, Yeah, Baba is Huck. What do you save Allah has knowledge. So he caught on, and he was quiet. And he sat down. So it's like the whole room against one man. He tried to come up with this argument, but he caught the trap. He's going to tell him
What do you save? What do you save Allah is knowledge. Is it created or not? If he says it is created, it's a statement of Kufa and he is clearly in the weak point and he will lose in front of the halifa. If he says it's not created, then he'll tell him. How does Allah have knowledge and we have knowledge. You said he can't speak because we speak. So he caught that he, he remained quiet. Then he just quietly sat down. Mr. Mohammed says, then another guard up, and he responded to him and he sat down, and then the third, then he would respond to him and he would sit down, one by one, the top scholars of the Morteza would get up and speak, and one man is refuting them and stopping them,
all of them, making them sit down, and they remained in that state. And Mohamad said, He's narrating himself, he said, so this one would speak to me and that one, so I would respond to this one and speak with that one, then I would say, Yeah, ameerul momineen. Give me something from the book of Allah azza wa jal, or the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallahu Sallam so that I may say it, he's saying, Give me something from the Quran and the Sunnah, I'll say it, don't give me this strange statement that no one's heard before and expect me to say that. So Mohammed Abu ad got upset, he got angry and said, yo, you, Ahmed, you don't speak except from the book of Allah, and the sooner of His
Messenger sallallahu sallam.
He is what law he amirul momineen. astray. And he leads astray and he's an innovator. And these are your judges and scholars ask them about him. And he that's what he means ask them about 1234 then turned to all the other scholars and judges and said, What do you say about him? And they responded, yeah, ameerul momineen. He is a straight leading others a straight he's an innovator. So a mama then asks, with what did I go straight? Like, what do I do that makes me a stray or misguided?
And then one would respond, and I would refute him and then another and I would refute him. And then he says, and my voice would get louder than their voices. So you can imagine it's not just a timid fellow who's just standing there, and they're yelling at him. He said, I would raise my voice and it would get louder than their voices.
Then, so one of them says,
He gives him a verse from the Quran mighty him Minzy, creamier robbing him more than no new warning comes to them from the Lord. All right, he's saying that he's trying to indicate with this verse, that the Quran must be created, because how are new warnings coming? If Allah is Kadeem, and then he has this renewable characteristic or new speech coming? How is that the case? So then, he says, so I said, sod one quarter, and he this Vicar. I said,
from sort of thought by the Quran full of reminding, so the vicar is the Quran, whereas the one that has no l meaning when you said my it him Min victorien. So just from any warning here from their Lord, but here with L, because without the L, it's indefinite with L, that's all Koran. So that first verse you mentioned was not referring to the Quran, but this verses referring to the pond because they call it L. vic.
So then, then one of them said to me,
the hadith of L Huck pub, get closer to Allah with what you can for you will never get closer to Allah with something more Beloved. Hug boo la he min Kayla May, oh, he just ruined himself. He said, You will never get closer to Allah with something more beloved to him, then his Kalam then his speech. So you know, Ahmed says I said Carla
subak you have spoken the truth, his speech. So then the Quran is the column of Allah, the mantra, he's destroying them the mantra is to give an evidence. And he ends up saying the speech of Allah referring to the Quran. He said, Yes, you're right, the speech of Allah, you have spoken the truth. So even abotu ad was so angered. And he started to look angrily at this guy and sit down. What kind of just angry with this, how could you give that evidence and it's against us?
Then he says, Then when one of them was cut off, his mom is describing when one of them would not be able to speak and a mom would destroy him. Then even Abby dad would interrupt and say Yamato Mini, he is what law he a straight, leading others astray. He's an innovator. So I would, so he would say speak to him, speak with him debate, the halifa now wants them to, like get him to bait speak. And so one would speak to me and I would refute and then another one
would speak to me and I would report him. Then when they came to a standstill and toss him would stay would say woe to you. What are you saying? And what do you say? So I would say, Yeah, amirul momineen Give me something from the book of Allah is the agenda or the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallahu sallam, so that I may speak accordingly.
And that's why I said, you only say what is in the book and the sooner so I said to him, You are twisting my words and you know best about that. I have not said anything for which I should be imprisoned or chained. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't say anything that I should be imprisoned for or chained for. Having been remember his grandson, he says, A Bob Dylan said, they sought to say such things as a proof against me that my heart could not retain them. And he they said some really nasty things about him. He that he wouldn't repeat. Nor can my tongue be brought to say them, they rejected the narrations. And I did not think that they were upon this until I heard it. And they
raise their voices saying, the opponent says such and such so basically, they would put words in his mouth, they would say he's saying this and that he means this and that. So I use the Quran as proof against their saying with his saying, then he quotes from the Quran from Surah Maryam where Ibrahim Ali Salam caudalie Abby he yeah abati Lima Lima tabuteau Mela yes mo whether you buzzer wala Yoni Anka Ibrahim al Islam and Miriam sisters, Father, all my father, why do you worship that which doesn't hear and doesn't see.
See what he's saying? The verses showing it but he might have said, I'm just telling his father, how can you worship something that doesn't hear and see, meaning Allah hears and sees.
So he tells them, you know how it looks to them? It says, Do you deny this?
So what do you think like this is a strong argument and he asked him, Do you deny this verse? And Allah and Abraham is saying, Allah sees and hears, so they twist it around. They just got up and this is where they start yelling shumba he made resemblance he made dish be here. I mean, he made dish be meaning he likened a lot of his creation.
Obviously, they were not really out for the truth, but they just wanted to somehow win or make the Khalifa angry with him.
Silas says my father said, so some of them said,
had not Allah said in the Quran ha Lu Kula Shea. In the Quran. Allah says Allah created everything. And the Quran is a thing. So the Quran is created? How would you answer that? Allah said he created everything. The Quran is a thing. So therefore the Quran is created. So many answers. And what's amazing is that these are new arguments. He's never heard these arguments before. But the answer comes immediately because he's a scholar, someone who's learned and knows his religion. Well, so he answers did not Allah subhanaw taala also say in the Quran, to the Miro Kula shade?
So he's talking about the the wind that destroyed the people of ad, right? He's saying, Allah said in the Koran, that the wind destroyed everything.
So didn't leave anything. They said, No. So he's telling him the verse Allah said, the wind destroyed everything. He asked him, did it leave anything? They said, No, because Allah said it destroyed everything. Then he tells them Then how did Allah subhanaw taala say the verse right after that for us bajo la Yura Illa masa kinome
he said, How could it be? The next verse says that nothing could be seen the next day or the next morning, except for their homes. Get it? The verse that have destroyed everything. But then the next verse says their homes are still standing.
So then he says, Are their homes a shape? Or not? Are their homes a thing to them? miracoli shape destroys everything where their homes a thing or not? They said yes, it is a thing. It is something. So then he says Then how did it remain? Didn't Allah subhanaw taala say destroyed everything.
He tells me Oh god, it destroyed everything that could be destroyed, and their homes were carved into the mountains and not susceptible to destruction. And in Arabic When it is said it destroys everything, it means everything that could be destroyed. And what Allah subhanaw taala says, ha ha He is the creator of everything. It means that he created everything that could be created, and the speech of Allah and His knowledge and the hearing of Allah and the sight of Allah are not creatable because they are from the attributes of Allah.
He really got them
Yes, very powerful. So then one of them answers. So what do you say about the hadith of Imran Hussain? In a la ha ha la pathik He says, What do you say about the Hadith
that says, indeed a lot created a vicar of the criminal Quran is a hottie. So I told him, You are mistaken. You remember who they're messing with? This is a more Hadith. All right, he says you're mistaken, so and so informed me from so and so from so and so he starts mentioning a chain of narration or narratives and then he says that the Prophet sallallahu wasallam said that in Allaha ketubot Vic, and he did not say Holla Holla. He says, I have a correct narration and he mentioned the chain of narrators, where the Prophet sallallahu Sallam said Indeed Allah ketubot dicker wrote he and he had written the Quran not created that narration is incorrect. So he defeated them, and
none of them could respond to him. And he says, This continued, or this continued until the time of the whole prayer, and then toss him over Okay, or let me see. Let me give you another some more here.
Yeah.
Yeah, this is uh, yeah, we go here.
Okay, this is still from the the morning, right?
This is now just another angle into the same day. This is day two, remember?
He says,
Okay, yeah, I'm gonna skip this part here.
Yeah.
Okay.
Where are we?
So,
and matassa halifa says?
He says, Yeah, do you know solid? Rashidi or okay? He says this continued let me go back to where I left off. He said this continued until the dymo tem of the hora and moto sim then said arise does everyone get up? So the people went to prepare for salah and the only ones left behind, or he ordered to stay behind? Where the humble and Abdurrahman Eben is Huck. So then Watson says, Yeah, Ahmed, do you know Saul, Rashidi? And I said, Yes. He says, He was my idea. We spoke about the Debian before the people will come and educate and teach and teach manners and Dean and all kinds of poetry, all kinds of things. So it tells them solidly Rashidi. He was mine was a dip, and he was
sitting in this place with me and he and he pointed to a place in the room. He was sitting right there. Then Solihull Rashidi spoke and mentioned the poor and so he disagreed with me. So I ordered and he was dragged and trampled like they dragged them on the ground. And they started trampling him yelling stair stepping a group of men started stepping in crushing him stepping over in. So basically what he's saying he's threatening him. He's saying, This is my a dip someone very dear to me, who taught me in my youth. And when he disagreed with me on the issue, the issue of the Quran, a mock up for Sahaba he was dragged in his trampled. So am I remain quiet cuz he's threatening him
now? He just stayed quiet. Then Mr. Kasim says, He says, I don't know you. You didn't use to come to us. So what he's trying to say is that you used to not enter our court room and, and like be part like as if you're are you against us? are you against a busted government? So I've got a man in his heart,
even though he was on the opposing team now, but he vouched for him, he said, Yeah, mille meaning.
He says, I've known him for 30 years meaning I've known him Ahmed for 30 years. He holds obedience to you and Hajj and Jihad with you. And he stays at his home. So he's telling him, he's never spoken against you or told people they don't have to obey you or you're not legitimate and he usually minds his own business, he stays at his home. So then the halifa felt a little comfortable after this. Then in AutoSum says, No, just you get the feel of how an * was taken by this man for two days and he's destroying a room full of people trying to argue with him, giving him arguments he never heard before and he refutes them instantly and they're all quiet. They sit down. Next guy gets up,
they sit down. So notice him says will lie. He's a funky. Will law he's a scholar. Will law he's a fee. Will law. He is a is
scholar, he was so moved. So he says, well, law, he would not displease me, for him to be along with me refuting the false religions for me. And if he was on our side refuting other false religions will lie here if he agrees to anything, and if he says anything, just borderline, just give me some agreement to what I'm saying just something will lie, I will free him with my own hands. And I would walk behind him, like, look at this and what he's saying. And he's saying this in front of them, I'm a scholar, and it wouldn't hurt me to have them with me on my side refuting. And he says, I would free him with my own hands. If he just says anything to me. Just agree with me a little bit, I'll
let you set you free with my own hands. And I would walk behind behind him, and I with my soldiers would write to him, what does that mean, right to him means we would go to him to learn from him. Because, you know, you don't have knowledge come to you, you go to knowledge I would get with my soldiers in my entire procession. And we'd go to him, so they would learn from him, I would become his student. So this is really, really enticing him here. And he's not just trying to get him to say something he's sincere. So they turned to him.
And they said, What do you say?
And if I'm mad response, I say yeah, I mean, give me something from the book of Allah azza wa jal, or from the son of his messenger sallallahu sallam. So I may say it, beautiful. People sticking to their principles. You know what I would do? I would tell him, okay, just say something. So he frees me. Then when it comes to study with me, I'll tell him, make sure he stays away from the Navy to other than those people and start to teach him that that was wrong. And this is what's correct. But this isn't a mammogram, Allah.
Oh, it's been an hour, huh? Or not yet. Okay.
So
he says then,
it was a long gut gathering. So they got up, and Ahmed was returned to the prison. He says, Then he sent me two men, so everyone else gets, you know, this was around the whole time. They sent him back to prison, everyone goes to pray. And he doesn't get to rest for the rest of the night. He says Mr. Mohammed says,
Then he sent me two men around Mother of type.
One from the companions of enamel Shafi, who was affected by this fitna and agreed to the creation of the Koran. And
he says, and the What is it, another man from the Mozilla, from the companions of Hamad bin Abbey to add these numbers of a son. So they would sit with me until the time of iftaar. So this is before magara, they would come and they'd sit with him until if thought, remember, this is Ramadan, then a table with food would be brought to us or food will be brought to us. So they would eat, and I wouldn't eat with them. And other he describes that he would stall and just stay away until they would finish eating. He didn't want to eat with them. Why not? Because in some of the explanations that he didn't believe that the money of the halifa was hella, he was just taking lots of the wealth
of the Muslims, he didn't have the right to take that wealth, and cook this food with it and extravagant food. So he didn't believe this was Helen from halal sources. And that's why he wouldn't eat, but he doesn't want to not eat in front of them. Because then they'll say, oh, what's wrong with the food of the halifa. And then that will, you know, charge the cliff up against them even more, because, oh, he doesn't believe that he, he doesn't believe our money is halaal he doesn't believe our position is legitimate and create more problems.
So he says, Then, they would eat but I would not eat with them. So I started to stall until the food was taken. Then they left and even a video ad came to me so just doesn't end doesn't get to rest. These people leave the debate with him, they eat the food, they walk away that might have never double outcomes. And he said, Yeah, ameerul momineen says to you, what do you say? Yeah, I was sent here by matassa. He says What do you say?
And he responds, give me something from the book of Allah azza wa jal or the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallahu wasallam. So I may say it.
So Hamad bin Abdul azim will la he
he has written your name amongst seven and I erased it Danny. He gave me seven names to be executed and he wrote your name amongst these seven and I erased it and will law he It is nothing but the sword. Yeah, you get nothing but the sword. So what do you say? He was gonna have you killed? I just erased your name. And it's nothing but the sword is going to end with the sword. What do you say and the mama
Hola says, Give me something from the book of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Messenger subtle aloud is a lamp. So I may say it.
But so
at this point, it would be the third day. So we're moving now this is the morning of the third day, we had two days of debating in front of an auto Sim, this is a third day. And Ahmed says, I said to myself, it makes sense that something is going to happen to me today. You know, first day, second day, third day is going to be different. It's not going to be just like day one and two. He said, it makes sense that something is going to happen to me today. So he asked for a string from one of the guards, he asked him to give him a string. So he says, I used I used to hate that something would happen to me. So I would become uncovered, like that was very hated to me that my trousers would
fall off and I would become uncovered in front of everybody. So he tied an extra string around his trousers. He says they brought me and things look different. I was entered from a place from one place to another. And there were people with swords, and people with whips, and people with all kinds of uniforms and weapons, and the place was full of soldiers. And in the past two days, none of these people were present. They just came today on the third day.
So he says, so before the events unfold, unfold, Warners would come to him. And they would say, yeah, I'm a woe to you. The halifa has pity and mercy on you the same way he has pity on his son, her own his son her own, he has mercy on you the same way he has mercy on Harun and he will tell them give me something from the book of Allah, or the son of his messenger salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so I may say it, but now on the third days, we said he's entered in this room that has all these soldiers and swords and weapons and uniforms in the room was packed. So that means something very, very serious is going to happen. And actually, I'll tell you in advance that the halifa is
going to order that Imam Ahmed be killed by whipping.
What will happen you're gonna have to tune in next Thursday inshallah, at the same time 815 second look at him for tuning in so long about a kilometer early. He was at the main was Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.