Ingrid Mattson – Muslim Traditions on Mourning

Ingrid Mattson
Share Page

AI: Summary ©

The 16th president of the Union Theological Seminary in New York introduces three members of the group: Dr. Jones, rabbi doctor Bert Burton Visotsky, and Dr. Bert Burton Visotsky. They discuss mourning and the importance of acknowledging its impact on society, particularly in the context of pre- Islamic Arab satisfied with death. The speakers emphasize the need for actions of value, kindness, and charity to pursue a positive life, but stress the tension between heartless actions and comfort in the future, which is a combination of heartless actions and comfort in the future.

AI: Summary ©

00:00:07 --> 00:00:08
			Well, good afternoon.
		
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12
			It's a deep honor to be back here
		
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16
			at Saint Paul's Chapel after last week. Last
		
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18
			week, we spoke
		
00:00:18 --> 00:00:19
			about trauma
		
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22
			and this is the second part in our
		
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24
			3 part series. Today, we speak about mourning.
		
00:00:25 --> 00:00:26
			My interlocutors
		
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28
			in this 3 week discussion
		
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31
			are seated beside me, and I'd like to
		
00:00:31 --> 00:00:32
			introduce them
		
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35
			now before I begin to speak.
		
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38
			On the far left is doctor
		
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41
			the Reverend Serene Jones. She is president and
		
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45
			Roosevelt professor of systematic theology at Union Theological
		
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46
			Seminary.
		
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49
			Reverend Jones is the 16th president of the
		
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52
			historic Union Theological Seminary in the city of
		
00:00:52 --> 00:00:53
			new New York.
		
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57
			The first woman to head the a 174
		
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59
			year old non denominational seminary,
		
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02
			doctor Jones came to union after 17 years
		
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04
			at Yale University,
		
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06
			where she was the Titus Street Professor of
		
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08
			Theology at the Divinity School
		
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10
			and Chair of Women, Gender,
		
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13
			and sexuality studies in the graduate schools of
		
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14
			arts and sciences.
		
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18
			Professor Jones' most recent book is trauma and
		
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20
			grace, theology in a ruptured world.
		
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23
			A book that has so much relevance for
		
00:01:23 --> 00:01:24
			our discussions,
		
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26
			in this series.
		
00:01:27 --> 00:01:31
			Beside Reverend Jones is rabbi doctor Bert Burton
		
00:01:31 --> 00:01:32
			Visotsky,
		
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35
			who is the Appleman professor of Midrash and
		
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37
			inter religious studies and director of the Louis
		
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38
			Finkelstein
		
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41
			Institute for religious and social Studies at JTS.
		
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44
			He is engaged in inter religious
		
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48
			dialogue in many exotic locations around the world.
		
00:01:49 --> 00:01:49
			In
		
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53
			2007, he was master visiting professor of Jewish
		
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56
			studies at the PENTIVICO Gregorian University in Rome.
		
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59
			He's been adjunct professor at Union Theological Seminary
		
00:01:59 --> 00:02:00
			since 1980
		
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03
			and his most recent book is Sage Tales,
		
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05
			Wisdom and Wonder from the Rabbis
		
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07
			of the Talmud.
		
00:02:08 --> 00:02:08
			And,
		
00:02:09 --> 00:02:10
			for some reason,
		
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12
			Bert and I seem to be in a
		
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14
			series of trilogy, a number of trilogies. So
		
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16
			we also are
		
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18
			now planning for our 2nd year
		
00:02:19 --> 00:02:19
			in a,
		
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23
			3 year series on Jews and Muslims in
		
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24
			America
		
00:02:24 --> 00:02:28
			between the Jewish Theological Seminary and and Hartford
		
00:02:28 --> 00:02:28
			Seminary.
		
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30
			So
		
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32
			very honored to be here today with them.
		
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35
			I'll begin by opening with a few remarks
		
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37
			of my own about mourning
		
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40
			and then I will invite each of them
		
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42
			in turn to come up and make a
		
00:02:42 --> 00:02:43
			few
		
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46
			introductory remarks to frame the debate or the
		
00:02:46 --> 00:02:47
			discussion, not debate.
		
00:02:49 --> 00:02:51
			Once we complete our opening remarks, then we'll
		
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53
			have a discussion with each other
		
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57
			about some of the issues raised and,
		
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00
			look more deeply into some of these very,
		
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02
			very sensitive issues.
		
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06
			Following that, we'll have a short
		
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09
			break and then we'll move on to the
		
00:03:09 --> 00:03:10
			musical composition.
		
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15
			As I was thinking about what to say
		
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17
			about mourning, it struck me that
		
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21
			this is such a sensitive and personal issue.
		
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23
			It's one of those things that is very
		
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25
			difficult to speak about
		
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27
			in a normative way without
		
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32
			without making other people feel that somehow
		
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34
			they're excluded
		
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35
			or being judged
		
00:03:36 --> 00:03:37
			or somehow
		
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40
			touching on other people's sensitivities.
		
00:03:41 --> 00:03:42
			When we speak about
		
00:03:43 --> 00:03:44
			from each of each of us from our
		
00:03:44 --> 00:03:45
			own tradition
		
00:03:46 --> 00:03:46
			about mourning
		
00:03:47 --> 00:03:48
			and
		
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50
			how we do mourn, perhaps how we should
		
00:03:50 --> 00:03:51
			mourn,
		
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54
			I think it's important to recognize that
		
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56
			certainly from my perspective,
		
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58
			I'm speaking
		
00:04:00 --> 00:04:00
			about a very
		
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05
			limited perspective I have on such a grand
		
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07
			and universal issue.
		
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10
			I don't think any of us could be
		
00:04:10 --> 00:04:10
			comprehensive
		
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14
			or even fully sensitive to all the aspects
		
00:04:15 --> 00:04:16
			of this
		
00:04:16 --> 00:04:17
			enduring
		
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21
			and difficult aspect
		
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22
			of the human condition.
		
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27
			Perhaps the way to introduce you
		
00:04:28 --> 00:04:29
			best to the
		
00:04:29 --> 00:04:30
			Islamic
		
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34
			views on mourning practices and beliefs
		
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37
			is to set it in some contrast
		
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41
			to the pre Islamic period into which the,
		
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43
			the Quran and the example of the prophet
		
00:04:43 --> 00:04:44
			Mohammed
		
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46
			came to
		
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49
			both correct,
		
00:04:50 --> 00:04:50
			support,
		
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55
			and be in dialogue with those existing traditions.
		
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59
			And as Muslims throughout the generations
		
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03
			continue to interpret and understand the relevance of
		
00:05:03 --> 00:05:03
			these
		
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07
			these forms of revelation to our daily lives,
		
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09
			we come to learn more. We learn more
		
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12
			through the scientific study of human beings,
		
00:05:14 --> 00:05:14
			how
		
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17
			mourning affects us physically,
		
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20
			how human societies are affected by mourning,
		
00:05:21 --> 00:05:22
			and how,
		
00:05:24 --> 00:05:25
			historically,
		
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26
			our societies
		
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28
			continue to integrate
		
00:05:29 --> 00:05:29
			aspects
		
00:05:30 --> 00:05:31
			of our experience
		
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35
			that will form us from the very beginning,
		
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36
			our culture of mourning.
		
00:05:38 --> 00:05:38
			So when
		
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41
			when Islam was first
		
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44
			being preached in the pre Islamic
		
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46
			Arabian Peninsula,
		
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50
			it encountered a tribal society that did not
		
00:05:50 --> 00:05:51
			believe in an afterlife.
		
00:05:53 --> 00:05:54
			The pre Islamic Arabs
		
00:05:55 --> 00:05:55
			were
		
00:05:56 --> 00:05:57
			materialists
		
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59
			who believed that
		
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02
			this life was all that there was,
		
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06
			but they weren't bound by any common ethic
		
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07
			or values
		
00:06:08 --> 00:06:08
			so they
		
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12
			could not even refer to a secular value
		
00:06:12 --> 00:06:12
			system
		
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15
			that would give them a common sense
		
00:06:16 --> 00:06:17
			of purpose
		
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20
			as a community.
		
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22
			And so for them,
		
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25
			death was the end, and it was for
		
00:06:25 --> 00:06:26
			this reason that mourning
		
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30
			took on incredible significance into this society.
		
00:06:31 --> 00:06:32
			Ritual mourning
		
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35
			was perhaps one of the most highly developed
		
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38
			aspects of pre Islamic Arabian society.
		
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42
			It really was the end, and it had
		
00:06:42 --> 00:06:43
			to be demonstrated
		
00:06:44 --> 00:06:45
			by the people culturally
		
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48
			that this was a disaster.
		
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53
			Now, given that there was no continuity to
		
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55
			life, and in fact, there were really no
		
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57
			collective institutions
		
00:06:57 --> 00:06:58
			to which
		
00:06:58 --> 00:06:59
			even
		
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02
			the idea of good works
		
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05
			that could continue in charity and that generations
		
00:07:05 --> 00:07:06
			could build upon,
		
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08
			given the absence of those,
		
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11
			how did a human being respond to the
		
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12
			sense
		
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14
			of finality of death?
		
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17
			The only way, the only way to have
		
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18
			continuity
		
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21
			was to have your name live on.
		
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24
			The way your name would live on
		
00:07:25 --> 00:07:26
			was through the stories
		
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29
			that others would tell about you.
		
00:07:37 --> 00:07:37
			Subscribed,
		
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40
			infamy was as good as
		
00:07:40 --> 00:07:41
			fame.
		
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44
			Whether you were remembered
		
00:07:45 --> 00:07:46
			for the most notorious
		
00:07:46 --> 00:07:47
			acts of banditry
		
00:07:48 --> 00:07:49
			or you were remembered
		
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52
			for the most generous
		
00:07:52 --> 00:07:52
			acts
		
00:07:53 --> 00:07:54
			of kindness,
		
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56
			in the end, it was all the same
		
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58
			because you would be remembered.
		
00:07:59 --> 00:07:59
			And
		
00:08:00 --> 00:08:01
			poems were made
		
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04
			describing the exploits
		
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07
			and the activities of both kinds of people.
		
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11
			And so those people who were able to
		
00:08:12 --> 00:08:13
			exercise power
		
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15
			for good or for bad were able to
		
00:08:15 --> 00:08:16
			find a measure
		
00:08:17 --> 00:08:17
			of
		
00:08:18 --> 00:08:18
			continuity
		
00:08:19 --> 00:08:20
			even after their death.
		
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24
			But, of course, the more people there were
		
00:08:24 --> 00:08:25
			to remember your name,
		
00:08:26 --> 00:08:27
			the better
		
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29
			because there was a higher probability
		
00:08:30 --> 00:08:32
			that people would talk about you and relate
		
00:08:32 --> 00:08:33
			tales of your exploits.
		
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36
			And that meant that whatever you could do
		
00:08:36 --> 00:08:37
			to expand
		
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40
			your tribe and your followers, you would do,
		
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43
			even if that meant stealing other people's wives
		
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44
			to make them your own,
		
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48
			stealing other people's children to make them your
		
00:08:48 --> 00:08:48
			own.
		
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50
			The Quran
		
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52
			talks about this when it
		
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54
			it it it,
		
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56
			there's a verse in the Quran that says,
		
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03
			You compete in piling up things even to
		
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05
			the point of visiting the graves
		
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08
			so that they would even count the number
		
00:09:08 --> 00:09:09
			of their dead
		
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11
			as a as a sign
		
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13
			of what a great person they were. I
		
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15
			have not only more living, but more dead
		
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18
			than you. So this idea that
		
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21
			there was no limit
		
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24
			on what you should do in order to
		
00:09:24 --> 00:09:24
			be remembered.
		
00:09:26 --> 00:09:27
			Now, where did this leave
		
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31
			the person who was not memorable?
		
00:09:32 --> 00:09:33
			Where did this leave
		
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35
			the wanderer,
		
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37
			the homeless,
		
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38
			the slave,
		
00:09:40 --> 00:09:41
			the one who was
		
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43
			detached and
		
00:09:44 --> 00:09:45
			separated from
		
00:09:46 --> 00:09:47
			a great tribe.
		
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51
			They were Their lives were of no value
		
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55
			because they had nothing
		
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58
			glorious that would live on.
		
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01
			And so the message of the Quran came
		
00:10:01 --> 00:10:02
			to change this.
		
00:10:03 --> 00:10:04
			To say that first,
		
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08
			it's not only important that you are known.
		
00:10:10 --> 00:10:11
			Indeed, it's not
		
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14
			important whether you are known or not known.
		
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16
			What is important is what you do with
		
00:10:16 --> 00:10:16
			your life,
		
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19
			that you do acts of value,
		
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21
			of kindness, of charity, of goodness.
		
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23
			And it doesn't matter
		
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26
			whether others know you or not because god
		
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29
			will always know you,
		
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32
			and god will always know your name.
		
00:10:33 --> 00:10:34
			Next life, and
		
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36
			the most,
		
00:10:43 --> 00:10:43
			and the
		
00:10:44 --> 00:10:44
			most
		
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48
			in the most glorious company of God because
		
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50
			of their pure and sincere heart.
		
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52
			So this really changed
		
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55
			not only how people lived,
		
00:10:55 --> 00:10:56
			but how they
		
00:10:57 --> 00:10:58
			understood what death meant.
		
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02
			It meant that for the ordinary person,
		
00:11:04 --> 00:11:04
			that death
		
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06
			was not the end
		
00:11:07 --> 00:11:08
			to a life
		
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09
			of marginalization
		
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11
			and suffering,
		
00:11:11 --> 00:11:12
			but it could be
		
00:11:13 --> 00:11:15
			the beginning of the true life of eternal
		
00:11:15 --> 00:11:15
			life.
		
00:11:17 --> 00:11:18
			And it
		
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20
			meant that
		
00:11:22 --> 00:11:23
			the living
		
00:11:24 --> 00:11:24
			were not
		
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27
			Especially the living who were
		
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29
			the vulnerable and the dependent
		
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33
			were not supposed to have all of their
		
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34
			value subsumed
		
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36
			to making sure that the great
		
00:11:38 --> 00:11:39
			powerful men
		
00:11:40 --> 00:11:41
			would live forever. Now,
		
00:11:43 --> 00:11:44
			we know in ancient Egypt
		
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47
			and in other ancient civilizations
		
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51
			that slaves and servants and others were buried
		
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53
			when the pharaoh died
		
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56
			to serve him in the next life. Presamic
		
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58
			Arabia didn't have that,
		
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00
			but it required women
		
00:12:01 --> 00:12:02
			to mourn
		
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07
			their male dependence to such a degree
		
00:12:08 --> 00:12:10
			that if they didn't demonstrate
		
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13
			complete and utter devastation
		
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16
			that they were considered
		
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17
			to not
		
00:12:19 --> 00:12:20
			have shown
		
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24
			honor and respect to the dead because their
		
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26
			own worth was completely dependent
		
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28
			on the value of this great person.
		
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32
			And it's one of the reasons, sometimes misunderstood,
		
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34
			why Islam
		
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37
			restricted this practice of excessive mourning.
		
00:12:38 --> 00:12:38
			Because
		
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42
			although it seems like a natural expression of
		
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44
			emotion, in fact, we know that
		
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45
			emotions are culturally
		
00:12:45 --> 00:12:46
			formed
		
00:12:46 --> 00:12:49
			and there are cultural expectations of emotion
		
00:12:49 --> 00:12:50
			and the requirement
		
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52
			or the expectation
		
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54
			of having to lose everything
		
00:12:55 --> 00:12:56
			when
		
00:12:57 --> 00:12:58
			your male relative died
		
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02
			to kind of give everything up and a
		
00:13:02 --> 00:13:03
			hope for life
		
00:13:03 --> 00:13:04
			meant a devaluation
		
00:13:05 --> 00:13:06
			of the living.
		
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08
			And so, I think this is a this
		
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11
			is a universal tension in some ways.
		
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14
			Those of us who have lost someone who
		
00:13:14 --> 00:13:15
			we have loved,
		
00:13:17 --> 00:13:17
			we
		
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21
			want to honor and value them. And like
		
00:13:21 --> 00:13:22
			the pre islamic
		
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24
			poet would say,
		
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27
			and this was a very common refrain in
		
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29
			the morning poems of women. They would say,
		
00:13:29 --> 00:13:29
			do
		
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32
			not be distant. Do not be distanced.
		
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35
			You know? And we feel that to the
		
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38
			extent that we mourn and we show mourning
		
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39
			and we hold on to mourning,
		
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42
			we will not lose that loved one. They
		
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44
			will not drift away.
		
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46
			But if we turn our attention
		
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49
			to life, we feel that they're gone,
		
00:13:50 --> 00:13:51
			that we're losing
		
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52
			them somehow.
		
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56
			And we even see sometimes we hear children
		
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59
			or young people who have lost, a parent
		
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03
			start to feel guilty at times when they,
		
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06
			after a year or 2, will say,
		
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09
			I'm starting to have trouble remembering
		
00:14:10 --> 00:14:11
			their face,
		
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14
			you know, what they were like.
		
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16
			And so I think
		
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17
			the
		
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19
			the tension that we face
		
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23
			between turning to life and to living
		
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26
			and the guilt of
		
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30
			letting our loved ones start to
		
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33
			be settled in the next life while we
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35
			continue in this life is a very difficult
		
00:14:35 --> 00:14:36
			one.
		
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40
			And perhaps, that's one of the
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:42
			wisdoms
		
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44
			of the cycle of life that
		
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48
			sometimes as our loved one becomes more settled
		
00:14:49 --> 00:14:50
			and distant in
		
00:14:51 --> 00:14:52
			the afterlife,
		
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54
			we start to become unsettled in this life.
		
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57
			And perhaps by doing so, we start to
		
00:14:57 --> 00:14:57
			approach
		
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59
			one another.
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02
			But it's something that is
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:05
			very difficult
		
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09
			for people to manage. I Just yesterday
		
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12
			was the death anniversary of my younger brother.
		
00:15:13 --> 00:15:14
			And
		
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17
			every year I remember him, he died in
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18
			a tragic
		
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20
			drowning accident when he was young.
		
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23
			And when I called my mother and I
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:23
			said,
		
00:15:23 --> 00:15:24
			I'm remembering
		
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26
			my brother on this day.
		
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29
			And we talked for a little while. And
		
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31
			then at the end of the conversation, she
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33
			said to me, thank you for remembering him.
		
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37
			Just to remember, just to know that he
		
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39
			is not completely gone.
		
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45
			But although it may
		
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48
			seem in some ways
		
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52
			heartless, I want to say in many ways,
		
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53
			it is more
		
00:15:54 --> 00:15:55
			comforting
		
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57
			to think about this.
		
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13
			We believe that
		
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16
			all things, all people
		
00:16:17 --> 00:16:17
			eventually
		
00:16:19 --> 00:16:20
			will be at one
		
00:16:22 --> 00:16:23
			with the divine.
		
00:16:24 --> 00:16:24
			And
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27
			it is inevitable that no matter what we
		
00:16:27 --> 00:16:28
			try to do, no matter
		
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31
			how often we try to tell the stories,
		
00:16:31 --> 00:16:32
			no matter
		
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36
			how deep we inscribe the names on stone.
		
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38
			Over time,
		
00:16:38 --> 00:16:39
			over generations,
		
00:16:41 --> 00:16:41
			we
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:43
			will fade from memory
		
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46
			and the ones who cared about us will
		
00:16:46 --> 00:16:47
			have joined us.
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50
			But there's also comfort in that.
		
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52
			There's also comfort that
		
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55
			we are part of something