Imtiaz Sooliman – Let’s Talk ‘Gift of the Givers’ founder Clarence Ford
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the importance of honesty, consistency, and faith in helping people. They emphasize the need for skill development and leadership in government, as well as the importance of finding people who are in the movement or values. The speakers also emphasize the importance of positive values and community for future generations. They encourage leaders to be examples for themselves and others, while acknowledging the need for leaders to be positive.
AI: Summary ©
Okay, we're talking to Dr Imtiaz Suleiman today to give without
expecting anything in return, to serve all people, regardless, to
save lives and give and offer other people maybe just a chance
at Hope. This is what drives the world renowned give to the givers
foundation a lifeline for people from all walks of life, since its
inception on August the sixth, 1992
he has admired, respected across the globe, and just recently, last
week, closer to home, the University of the Western Cape
also honored him. The institution conferred an honorary doctorate on
Dr mtiaz Suleiman for his philanthropic efforts. The Doctor
joins us via zoom. Welcome Dr Suleiman, it's great to have you.
Good morning, Clarence. Thank you very much for having me on your
show. Thank you. We're not going to talk about you know you and
your superhuman efforts with your team to bring relief to people in
the world and in the country. We just want to find out about Dr
Imtiaz Suleiman today, and we're going to start at the start. We
want to you. We want you to take us back, to put us through them.
Tell us about your your young days, and how you you know what
was put in place for you to be this amazing human being that that
you are today,
coming from a small town, it is a sense of community on the one
side, the grandfather, his children, brothers and sisters,
their wives or her husbands and the children all lived in the same
yard. Business was in the front, and the homes were in the back. It
was one, you know, communion, family. Everybody assisted each
other. Everybody did things together when big days of
celebration came during the religious time, everybody were
together. What was beyond that, not only were individual families
community, the whole community was community. So if somebody had a
wedding, even if you were not invited, you would go and hunt. If
somebody was sick, you make food or things. I will visit the person
hospital. If somebody passes on, everybody comes to the funeral,
and nobody gets offended if the person is not invited, because you
can't buy the whole town, obviously. And there was values.
They were, you know, everybody made sure that if anybody's child
is going out of line, that the parents were told, nobody took
offense, and we looked after each other in that way. That was from a
personal point of view, from a society point of view. We had a
business. Oh, it's we still have it up to today. My great
grandfather was in a shop. My grandfather joined him. My father
and his brother and sisters joined him. I eventually worked with them
during school days, and we had people, mostly black community and
some Africana people around the area that used to shop from us. It
was mostly a credit account business, and it was there that I
learned a lot from my family, customer would buy very well, pay
very well, and suddenly there was a there was a problem. And my
grandfather would say, they've been supporting us for such a long
time. Give them the goods, they're probably never going to pay us
again. It doesn't matter. The same family would come back and say, We
need money for funerals. Some days passed on, and my grandfather
would say the same thing, they've supported us. Their friend is
going to support us. Support us. Gave them the money for the
funeral. You're probably not going to get it back. And it was those
kind of values that started in that hometown, you know, that I
learned. And one final point, I became very interested in becoming
a doctor, because the doctor used to actually delivered me, you
know, in potters room was a guy who never worried about doing
house calls came any part of the day or night, smiled every time.
Professional doctor, a professor, Ismail haferji, who passed on last
year, he left Potter's room, came to Durban, became a pediatrician,
a professor teaching in the department. He was an example of
professionalism from a medical point of view. And he was also a
very religious man in Ramadan. When we have to stand in the
mosque for 30 nights and pray extra, we have to know the Quran.
We not, as some you got to know the Quran by mind the heart. And
this man used to read that perform that prayer in Ramadan. So he was
a religious man in Ramadan, and the spiritual doctor the rest of
the year. And he inspired me to become a doctor at a very young
age. We're getting to find out more about Dr Imtiaz Suleiman on
the line, and it's our let's talk feature. So we talked to the
person to find out more about the person. You talk about values.
Values has come through consistently in that opening
little Gambit there, you talk about the community's roles in
fostering those values, and the family's roles in fostering those
values, clearly a close knit community in Portugal. Strum, a
family run the business. You say, through generations, why did you
break that link? And you say that you've become a medical doctor
because of the Medical Doctor in Portugal? Strum,
again, helping people. A thread coming through there. Dr Suleiman,
yes, you know, it was, it was consistency in helping people. I
the thread the the relationship didn't break. I realized that stay
in a shop is not for me, you know. And I was very keen on doing
medicine, but my mother and father got separated, you know, at the
young age, my mother, when.
Moved back to Durban, where she was from originally, and in grade
nine or standard seven in those days, in 1974 I moved to Durban,
you know, and did standard seven in Durban, and finished matric
there in 78 in South Street College. And I knew that I wanted
to get into the medical school in Durban, because that's what I
wanted to do. And my father had no objection about that. He was quite
happy and encouraged that I was going to do that. You said, You
know what? It's good to have a profession, and they are. There
was another cousin and uncle was also a doctor in the family, so
and so, healing and serving people. But at the first part, of
course, it was about being a doctor, just to have this
profession of being a doctor, knowing medicine. And with that
came the desire to help people. And my mother on her own, when she
separated from my father, she set up an employment employment
Bureau, and she said, the best thing you can give people is
dignity, and the best way to do that is to find jobs for people.
So she set up a very successful employment Bureau, finding lots of
people jobs in lots of different companies. It was in that time was
a great kind of thing to do. And then she would say, outside the
business that we should go out and seek people who are hungry, seek
out people who are hungry. Even we can only afford one food parcel or
two or three, let's take it and go out. So very so often she would go
out and help, and I would go with her to give food parcels. So it
was a continuation of what I had learned in protest, yeah, and you
know, I credit you, and I held you for your superhuman effort in
respect of strife in this country and beyond, and you nearly dismiss
it. You sound as if you relate to this as just the calling of your
religion as well. Tell us about that relationship, your religious
impact on your life, and, of course, direction.
Well, the when I spoke about values, it comes from religion.
You know, specifically my religion. I'm talking about
myself. I can't talk about others. Everybody's got their own values,
sure, but from my one itself, specifically, you know it, tells
you very clearly that you must pray, but it gives a very strong
warning that God is not in need of your prayer if you can't enable
neighborly needs. In other words, if you can't serve the poor, you
can't have the widow, you can't have the neighbor, you can't have
anybody in society itself. Don't waste your time. Your prayer is
not important. The essence of prayer is to prepare the soul and
the mind for service to people unconditionally. That's our
teaching. But it got amplified in a huge way when I met a spiritual
teacher on the sixth of August, 1992 in Turkey. I met in the year
before that, but I went when I went back in 90 to two that
Thursday night after a prayer session, he looks me in the eye,
and he looks heavenwards and in FLUENT Turkish. I don't speak
Turkish, but I understood everything that he said in
Turkish. He said, My son, I'm not asking you, I'm instructing you to
form an organization. The name in Arabic will be wagful wakifin,
translated gift of the givers. You will serve all people of all
races, all religions, all colors, all classes, all cultures, of any
geographical location and of any political affiliation, but you
will serve them unconditionally, not expecting anything in return.
This is an instruction for you for the rest of your life, self,
people would love kindness, compassion and mercy, and remember
the dignity of man is foremost. And remember, my son, that
whatever you do is done through you and not by you. I asked him,
How come when you speak Turkish, I understand, and other people speak
Turkish, I don't understand. He said, My son, when the hearts
connect and the souls connect, the words become understandable. I
asked him, What exactly am I supposed to do? He told me one
line you will know for 30 years, I do know what to do, how to do,
what to touch, what not to touch, how to intervene and how not to
intervene. Wow. And you've reconciled that moment, nearly
prophetic moment in Turkey. Turkey in 9999 you reconcile
the divine.
Yes, it is in divine, because it's a place where spiritual leader, we
have what is called a spoofy order. The link goes up to the
Prophet Muhammad, peace supreme. So it's a continuation of is an
extension of what the Prophet of Islam taught, peace be upon him.
And that teaching just filters down to people who came after him
and after him and after him into Turkey and every other part of the
world. And it was just a continuation of a teaching where
you understand the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the
law, where you where the Spirit of the Lord teaches you love,
compassion, kindness and mercy that overrides every other facts.
So if somebody has hurt you, it says, okay, you know, let's be
forgiving. Let's be merciful. Give the person a chance. You let the
Lord allows you to get your your back, to get your day back on what
it tells you you can get back what happened to you, what an equal
intensive.
Not more, not worse, but it's better for you to forgive. So
those are the kind of teachings that you learn, and you always try
to say, okay, maybe what happened to you? Give the person a chance,
and maybe they will get better, and they'll improve. And so often
that happens when goodness starts coming out from somebody who's
maybe hurt you or offended you, and that person becomes an
intimate friend, or somebody that changes society or becomes a great
human being,
and instruction from the Divine a conduit of sorts. So therefore,
you would always be able to meet the challenge commensurately,
because you would be resourced sufficiently without you knowing
where from to deliver on the needs of the time. Hey,
you sounded at the like a spiritual teacher himself. I've
been to a great Sufi teacher in Lusaka who did teach me a little
bit.
And the teacher said, My son, there will be a lot of challenges,
but you will always succeed, my son, you will never look for
money. People will come and find you as a policy, we don't have
fundraisers. You know, people come to us from all over. He said,
they'll come to you from all over the world. They come from all over
the world. He said, they look for you from all over the world. They
look for me from all over the world and everything. He said, You
will be guided. But remember the most important teaching that I
told you, whatever you do is done through you and not by you.
There's no place for ego. The day the ego comes in, the gift is
gone. You talking about being a doctor also has nearly, nearly a
calling, and then giving it up. Was it this instruction that made
you give up the the medical profession?
Well, it he didn't ask you to get up the medical profession. But
when I was in the first projects I did immediately, I responded to
the civil war in Bosnia. And that can't be busy from 92 to 95
Rwanda, my wife owns me in June 19 94/30 June, and I'm in Bosnia, and
she says, You know what? This is not going to work. People come
here all the time. They wait for you. The children are sick for two
to three weeks. They don't want to go to anybody else. They don't
want to see your locums. I think you should close the practice. We
you can either do the practice or you do gifts. You can't do both a
professional. And I said it's not even a decision, because the
teacher gave me instruction for the rest of my life. You know, the
instruction for the rest of my life is certain people. So I
totally shut it. And that same day, on 30th, June, 1994 she shot
all three surgeries that I had.
But you've employed your skills, obviously, in the in the new
purpose that you've been instructed into.
Well, if I wasn't a doctor, I wouldn't be able to do other
things that I do. It's the medical skills I didn't know. Medicine is
common sense, the physiology, the anatomy, everything's the same,
you know, so and you apply, like in covid, we didn't do covid, but
you know, the type of process, processes involved, how to set up
hospitals. And you don't have to know everything. You just need
people in your team what skill and tell you, okay, the newest
advancements are, just, look, I don't practice medicine since 94
but it will tell you. I say, Okay, what's the way to combat certain
things? They'll say, this, that the other I'll go check up about
it. I'll go visit it. I'll go see the site. I'll go experiment and
find out, yes, this makes practical sense to me, and like
that. I got a plethora of people on my side, professors and, you
know, heads of department, highly skilled medical personnel, and all
of them can give you excellent advice, and we put it together and
and, of course, how to build hospitals. That's the method, the
medical part. But it's, of course, the logistics part, the building
that the construction, the people that you use, the diplomacy, and
all those additional skills which have developed over the years. So
all that, together with the medical skills, is crucial to do,
especially the medical interventions.
There's one little anomaly that you need to just kind of sort out
for us. You did feel that that politics could be your calling in
1990 94
and we were talking this morning, Lester and I were talking, and
Lester had mentioned that it's a good thing that you failed
dismally there in terms of not getting the necessary votes for
you to have to go to politics. But you did feel that maybe there was
a role you could play there as well. No, the problem that is, my
name is given as a leader of the party. I wasn't even in the
country at that point, and I was already registered mandate. And
what are me being asked? And when I came in, they said they carry
movies. I'm already registered as a leader of the party. But I told
him, I know nothing about politics. I'm not interested in
politics. This is something that I don't want to do. And you know,
they insisted, now you are known. I mean, it's only two years and I
was already known post gift of the givers, sure, and I said, I don't
want this. And I suddenly prayed that we win no seats. And to me,
the greater joy happen when we didn't get any seats. You know, I
tell you, we were celebrating that this morning, in reflection, I
was, I was telling everybody about you popping by for us to have this
conversation, and the amp back in the day is what you were
representing, but you say that that you weren't even around, you
didn't approve to be the leader of that party, that they said, Okay,
kind of stuff, you know. And I said, you know, you need people
who are in the movement or in politics. You need to strike this
free. You Out.
Relate. And I don't know about all those kind of things, you know,
kind of reports to a miles way behind. So, you know, I don't know
that. But developing the humanitarian stuff, I mean, that
skill was growing and growing and growing, and I don't know, destroy
something that was developing in a strong way well, that these might
segue into, into the next question. The question is, people
are touting you for president of South Africa, we need great
leaders, leadership of the values base that that you represent. Just
tell me, do you think that politics could be a thing for you
in the future, or is politics even a means of solving this country's
problems? Yes, politics is a means of solving not politics is future
for me, no, but politics is a means to solve the problems of the
country, because in the past, you know, if you have the right
leadership. Now come back to the same thing, values, but it's the
other categories, spirituality, morality, values and ethics. We
need that in government, wherever the person is, government is just
a name. It's people that make up government. So what is the
corporate world, the religious sector, in the NGO sector, in
society and in government, or whoever runs these things with the
individuals make up the system. And even individuals have these
kind of qualities. Yes, you can make a huge difference. You don't
have to worry about money being stolen, or worse, stolen or
wasted, because your industry being your inner soul will talk to
you and make you do the right things in the right way possible.
So, yes, it has a role to play. Me get involved. No, in 95 after that
thing of the amp, I spoke to the spiritual teacher, and I said,
this is what happened. And he said, My son, you will never get
involved in politics. You'll never be involved in government, but you
will always work with government. And for 30 years, we've been doing
that. We've been all in working with government. We fight, we have
a good fight in the day and at night. We friends again, you know.
And we talk about things that are not right and we have to be fixed
up. Yes, so I really appreciate the fact that people want me to
stand as president, but you get caught up in the bureaucracy, in
the red tape, in the system, you can't make a decision in five
seconds, like, what I can do being outside government, you know? And
that's why I feel I can serve the country greater from outside.
Because the advantage of that is I don't follow rules. I break the
rules. I do what's necessary. I get the things done, and people
just don't say anything. You spoke about a spiritual poverty, and
that is really at the heart of our country's issues. I concur. But
how do we change that around? Because everything else comes in
the wake of that spiritual poverty, the morality issues that
you confronting.
How do we turn things around? And we have to go back to the values
of prom, the story of protest room. You know, we we talk about
fighting criminality, but if there's no criminals, there's no
criminality to fight, and we need to go back to that process, to go
back to the prevention, rather than dealing with the future
afterwards. And it goes back to us being one big community where
neighbors, church, people, schools, everybody, start defining
values and guiding our kids to those values, and once those kids
grow up with those right values, but you can't tell them do this
when you are a very bad example yourself. So the parents and the
society has got to be an example for the kids to follow. It was
done before. It's done hundreds of years and others of times. We just
need to go back. Your child is my child in the old days, even your
child was naughty, and your neighbor came and said, Oh, your
child in this state, and the other the neighbors again, want smack
today to talk about corporate provision, not correct, but it
wasn't meant in that way. It was meant to put him straight.
Whatever you have to do today. You tell the neighbor your child is
not here. They tell you, shut up. Got nothing to do with your money
on business. You know, that's what they will tell you. The ego
overrides everything else, and eventually, when a Thai child is
spread, you cry, it's too late. So we need to go back and say, You
know what? Kill the ego. Let's build a sense of community. We
need to kill the ego. Yes, it's a people are going to say
it's a pipe dream to go back for each child as my child, it takes a
village to raise a child those kind of principles on which our
generations were raised, uh, people say it's a pipe dream.
People are to institute go to the new generation. The new generation
doesn't know about color. They don't know about black and white.
You tell them about apartheid, they look at you like you talk to
some you know alien language. They have no idea what you're talking
about. With the elderly people, you can't change their minds for
the new generation. You can bring those values in and say, Look,
forget it. Just write off 12 years and start from before the 15 years
from preschool, what's two year old, three hours. And let's start.
Let's start in the values there, they will set an example, and the
bigger kids will follow eventually. So let's start. What
was easy, not trying to change somebody's mind is already set to
change more, mold a new mind, and it can be done. What does what
does your guru out there in Turkey say about the future? Is it
something to look forward to?
Well, you never spoke about that. You know, you just take life as it
comes and that's you know, you respond to life as it goes along.
But we always have to be positive. We always got to have hope.
Because, in essence, humanity has more good than evil in it, and
good always overrides evil. And quite often, while he says, just.
He says, You see, when somebody's doing bad things, don't run the
person down. Don't keep saying, You bad, you bad, you bad. Look
for the one good that that bad person being and said, you know,
you did this good, you need this good and and as you do that, you
change the personality and the spiritual well being of that
person. And eventually the good what in the person overrides the
bad that is power, spirituality.
You are an absolute inspiration. We thank you for this opportunity
to really dig down into the life and a person that is Dr. Imtiaz
Suleiman, thank you for the work that you do, Doc, you are
appreciated by so very many people around this country and around the
world. Thank you for you, and we can never say Enough of that.
Thanks,
Kevin, and thanks to your station. You guys always give us good
coverage. We appreciate that. And you know to everybody, let's have
a have a great festive season, and let's start fixing the country
together. Good