Hatem al-Haj – Contemporary Medical Fiqh Issues
AI: Summary ©
The conversation covers various topics related to the history and success of a recent marketing campaign for a former martial law practice. The speakers emphasize the importance of biosciences and legal privacy, while also discussing the importance of history and the need for clear understanding of the stages of human development. They touch on the topic of the end of life and the importance of privacy and compliance with laws. The speakers also discuss the use of "monster" in relation to organ donation and transtransplant individuals, and emphasize the importance of guidelines on disinfecting hands and maintaining good hygiene practices.
AI: Summary ©
Men or women hamdulillahi rabbil Alameen wa sallahu wa salam ala Ashrafi, mousseline Allah subhanho wa Taala service or Allah decree in controllata moon
today handler of law mean we are discussing one of the urgent topics for some of our Imams you can tell that kind of love from the registration that we got it's beyond our expectation. We just started marketing for this topic few days ago and Masha Allah
many Imams has joined many emails or has asking for the link and the recording after inshallah that or this workshop in salt law.
So I'm going to give a little bit or speak a little bit about knife knife has started in 2002, I think.
And during that time, it was ups and downs with many martial law missions and visions for our Imams. And two years ago, we had a group of Imams mashallah they gathered and they wanted to do something new for our emacs
in regard to education in regard to finance in regard to
supporting imams in everything they can,
masha Allah
The group started were
came back with the leadership or the chairman, Dr. Abdul Hakim Mohammed. He might join us shortly but he's in trouble. And a staff including Dr. Hatfield lost with us now. Dr. Armadyl hottub, as we see much lower with with us now.
Brother, Dr.
Musa, Azzam and chief refactor the head of imams in Canada and myself as a servant for all of those Mashallah. Also part of the leadership,
structure of Navy that we have regional directors who are monitoring the work of neath
including Sheikh Mohammed and Miss Murray so you have the Hakim Mohammed, look for the awful howdah looks for Abdulhamid some rock, Dr. Akram Khasab, Dr. Mangal Kodaka, Mohammed Fackler, Nanny Doctor heavy or heavy and look to half of the loss chief Miguel hottub as well.
Mr. Brockman she has got a man Patel she'll give him a heavy she had. She referred from Canada Sheikh Mohammed, Chief Paul Hudsonian Sheikh Khalid bassoon and Chef Zulfikar Ali Shah all of those Masha Allah they are our guide and giving us
Masha Allah their advices whenever we need that, and they are also working on some projects. We have also some Imams not from the structure of NIF, but they joined because mainly we are open for any discussions and open for any recommendations and advices. For example, a few weeks ago, we got an idea from one of our machines, Sheikh Mustafa wash, and he's in Turkey now hope he joins and short lock. He came up with an idea why not we have an educational program for the kids or children of Imams. And he joined the group Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen now we created a group for him. We formed the group and he is in the group now they are working on creating a curriculum and an
education program for our Imams children. So may Allah subhana wa Taala bless all of those Allahumma Amin and let's our
speakers today and all of our guests. With no further ado insha Allah without any further ado, I will hand this platform to Dr. Half of the class to introduce the topic and introduce
Dr. Hartman hedge whom I believe that he doesn't need any introduction from all of us. He's
young, this introduction so
Allah bless you.
Yeah, does that does that mean love shipping on a hanger liable admins, but that was
selling, selling while it was hardly anybody's mind.
This is Al Hamdulillah is one of the monthly forum that we have for the Imam just to update them on the comparative issue. That it is really my honor and pleasure to introduce
Use mashallah, today is presenter whom, you know we love, all of us are Hamdulillah I need no introduction, but just as
fulfill the formality, formality. Dr. Hatem was mashallah born in Cairo in Egypt mashallah Madonia and he has multitalented he has done his PhD in comparative fic from a generic University in Lebanon and he's also mashallah and he has his master's also in this field and but most importantly he has other fields also which is, you know, the medical he has his Bachelor's mashallah of medicine, and he has also graduated with honors from Alexandria University Medical School as India Egypt. So he has the best of both worlds Mashallah. And from that, we all have been benefiting from him, not only here but worldwide mashallah people in different capacities. He is also part of Anja mashallah,
which is and he has many classes that he is offering and I'm also one of his students without him knowing that that means mashallah benefiting from him and on Facebook, mashallah, he's bought this recent posts about you know, in the sea now, what happened to him mashallah, and these are
educating all of us. So, may Allah subhana wa taala, bless him, may Allah subhanaw taala continues to shoveling His blessings upon him, especially through him to all of us. And, and today's topic is very important about biosciences, because our Imams hamdulillahi rabbil aalameen we when we go to our 70 general university, we are
exposed to some of the content which is based on religion, but you know, the contemporary example, you know, now are asking this question and these are, you know, especially Muslims living in Muslim minority country where when we go even to renew your driver's license, whether can we donate our organs or not in organ donation, and one of our former soldiers when they are in the hospital, what kind of scenario that they're going through. So, it will do us enough exposure today Inshallah, so that we know what is happening and this is the topic and this is the philosophy behind of having these workshops and even today's workshop. So, without any further ado, I would like to call upon,
you know, it had Inshallah, to you know, do the presentation, and definitely inshallah we whichever way we all want it to have we either we can, if he's comfortable taking the question in between otherwise inshallah we can write down our questions, and maybe we can, you know, respond to those question and answer session towards the end. And we can also share Hatem with we, if I can request you to have you know, a break maybe in about 45 minutes or so, about 1010 minutes break so that people can go grab their cup of tea and coffee rather than just walking around. So inshallah we will sit down and we will pay much attention Inshallah, once we know that they're going to be great
coming up in about, you know, 45 minutes or one hour, so I'll leave it to you Inshallah, how you would like to conduct the presentation for me so share Hatchimal had mashallah seven
smuggler, hello, Sama rasool Allah on or yo sabe or Manuel, so my mother about to proceed.
So I would like this to be in the form of a discussion because we only have 15 participants, 16 participants or even if we have 30 participants here is 40 people registered. So they may join at some point, it's still possible to have this in the form of discussion. And I have, we have our Messiah here and it's I said in the beginning that I'll be embarrassed to speak in the presence of Satan or Dr Jamal Badawi but we will try
yet I would like to be corrected, I would like, you know, people to
at least, to interject with their comments and their corrections and their observations.
And this will be will make it more interesting because I am not a public speaker. I am a like a very monotonous speaker. He will sleep, you know, during my presentation if if we don't make this a little bit more interactive.
So the topics that I will talk about today and certainly if we have the time to talk about all of them and you I want you also to direct me or redirect me if I go on tangents because that's something I usually do.
But there are certain interesting topics that we agreed we will talk about today we will talk about the beginning of life, the end of life.
And between the beginning and the end, we'll talk about some other issues like organ donation like today we in general or see
get medical treatment
and the cutting edge topics. If you're interested in some more cutting edge topics in medicine, such as cloning, and things of that nature, stem cell research, all of those issues, then I would like you to bring them up. Because certainly the weekend talk about everything
today, because the relationship between medicine and effect is very multifaceted, very multifaceted, because medicine, the subject matter of medicine is the human body, which is tasked by the religious obligations.
And the religious obligations are the subject matter of FIP. So, you could imagine that that would, that would, there would be a lot of sort of interfaces between firms and medicine, and fair provides us with a value, a legal value and an ethical value for every human action. So check, it gets into everything which is expected.
Even the medical practice needs to be regulated by, by fab.
And it is one of the other interfaces between Fabcon medicine, which medicine depends on is that they because medicine tasks, the body with religious obligations, the you know, our faculty tasks, or a lot asked our body with the religious obligations, and
is
the science that that designates a value for every religious obligation
depends on Feck on medicine, in certain facade, or the conceptualization of human, the human body, the anatomy of the human body, the physiology of the human body, and so on. So you could certainly imagine that the rulings of Ramadan, or the things that will invalidate or fasting in Ramadan, the rulings will be very dependent on our understanding of the human body. And that's why our Fatah disagreed over many things, because their conceptualization of the human anatomy was not
was different. And then they disagreed amongst themselves. There are many other issues, the short spear duration for administration, the lungs duration, for administration, or for pregnancy, and many other issues, that in which
is in the needs medicine, and our critical and loving,
basically, investigation of our legal heritage
is important also, because there are many very things that are said they did their best, we respect them, we love them, for having done their best within basically, the resources that were available to them, they asked the scientists and the ask the physicians of their times, so they did not fall short, in that regard.
But the physicians of their times also did not have,
you know, the knowledge that we have now, I think our knowledge about the human body, and what whether its anatomy or physiology is a little bit more mature now.
Or to be honest, you know, it's a lot more mature now, than it was then. Therefore, we need to make sure that we are not simply
cutting and pasting from
from our legal
heritage, which which are which are which is great. And the beautiful thing about our legal heritage is that the OMA never agreed on a misguidance or never agreed on something that was proven false. So we can always find if we are flexible, and we are not zealot, and that's, that's what we hope we are, we can always find within our legal heritage, something that is congruent with new facts, or
new discoveries about the human body. So
you know, I know that the introduction may have a little bit a little bit longer than you needed, but it just wanted to say this because there were the many issues that we will discuss, where things have changed a little bit from the way our football had conceptualized. The first thing that we want to talk about today is the beginning of life which makes sense the beginning
For the beginning of the talk, so the beginning of life, the beginning of life is is is a hotly debated issue nowadays. Why is that? Because our focus, there is a particular Hadith that's reported by Bukhari and Muslim a very authentic hadith that is reported in the authentic collections in which the Prophet sallallahu sallam said in the photo Hajikko Yajima, or Facebook, Naomi Arbaeen, a young woman Barbae in Allah Allah.
Allah Patton missed some may Hakuna Matata, Mr. Who, some yoga. So today, I'll malloc for you, that will be our bike. And in
fact, for you, that will be our back any manufacturable risk, who will agita who was a man who was a KN M, side, Samantha hero. So the translation of this would be that one of you would be gathered in the womb of his mother for 40 days and 40 Nights, you know, 14, you know, 14 days, you know.
And then
then he will be a, so that's the gathering depends on the phase of the load phase, that's the phase of the sperm drop the gathering state, and then
he will be araca, which is the clinking plot, whatever it is that you're going to translate all of that into, there are many translations about claim get something that's thinking, and the quality of the Klingon quad, because attach to this attaches itself to the,
to the roof of the womb. And then and then will be a model which is a lump of flesh, or sometimes the set should flesh or a lump of flesh anyway,
a lump of flesh for for a seminar period, then the angel will be sent. And the angel will be commanded, commanded regarding for things to write in the scrolls, for things
that would be Resco is provisions or livelihood as a whole his lifespan. Amata who is deeds was a Kenyan side his Felicity, Felicity or damnation, and the hereafter, and then he will breathe into him the soul, and then he will breathe the soul into it, you know, the, the fetus. So, this hadith was taken to heart by all of our scholars, and they should have because it's Hadith as reported in the authentic elections. It's reported from fapy, which is Abdullah Habermas, who was one of the greatest vocal while the sahaba.
And they took it to heart so they said, Okay, we have 40 days as sperm drop 40 days as a Klingon quad 40 days as a lump of flesh, and then the soul will be breathed into the fetus that is 120 days the soul will be breathed, after 120 days into the fetus.
So
certainly, our focus, and we will come to later to talk about the disagreements in terms of
the rulings of abortion. But this is where the we're coming from, we have for the for the for the so, you know, the first for the would be basically just the gathering the sperm drop within the womb, and after 120 We have the installment, they call this personhood and in the secular tradition, the instrument is called personhood.
We call it installment because we believe in those metaphysical realities.
So, now,
now, this hadith, so it seems to like if you if you say to any embryology in Briella, the ologists or gynecologist that the
that this is basically, these are the phases of human development and the first 120 days they would have a little bit of difficulty
with that, and the difficulty comes from the fact that we know that by about 56 days
of gestational age, so,
that that is you what you want always to remove 14 days from the gestational age whenever the whenever
or the physician says,
four weeks, that means two weeks in, in our calculation, and keep that in mind, because that's always a source of confusion.
Even some of the conferences that that we that in which there were discussions between the fuqaha, and the doctors and so on, they were speaking different. They were speaking different languages. But because the doctor is usually to use the gestational age, gestational age starts from the first day of the last period. That is, usually that is
very precisely most of the time, about two weeks
before conception. So from our perspective, the rulings
apply to the conception, not that gestational age. So post conception for us, is usually to two weeks later than the gestational age or two weeks earlier than the gestational age. So if the doctor says
that the age of this fetus is 20 weeks, that's 18 for us, and the doctor says the age of the fetus is 14 weeks, that's 12 for us, because it's 12 Post conception, so But at any rate,
when we say when we say to when we say that we have these three phases, each one will last for the days, it is known
that the first heartbeat takes place, but somewhere between 21 to 24 days post conception,
which would be what how many weeks is that?
You know, that is about three weeks post conception, that's about five weeks of gestational age, but post conception, it's about three weeks 21 to 24 days, when
when the heart starts to beat.
So
by 56 days, you have a complete fetus that is simply growing from here on,
but you have old organs and you have a complete fetus that is just growing
from there onwards.
So we have to address this fact. And we have to say that it seems that our the
understanding of embryo embryology was not perfect.
Because they talk about this they talk about the embryology in their discussion of
abortion.
And now to exonerate the Surya, who it is important, that's what we want to do. We want to exonerate the Sharia without impugning the tradition.
So we have to say that that tradition itself was not
basically unanimous on some of these issues.
And the Sharia is clear from any or clear of any misunderstanding
that took place after the revelation was completed.
If you the reason why this is quite clear to me, is because the very heavy some of the loveliness of the house another narration in which the wording this other narration is in Muslim and Muslim was more particular about wording than it Bukhari and then other
you know, Rosa, for collectors of the Hadees.
So then narration in Muslim says
that, you know, in photo Hadoken, Yoda, Matthew buck, Naomi her by now or by Nina Leila. So, Matt Yeah, KUWANO Allah cotton fees, Erica missa.
And then it will be Allah, in that, in fat refers to what? What was the very last thing that was mentioned. The last thing that was mentioned is not the womb it's the 40 days. So in that refers to the 40 days.
And this is not something that we are saying now because we just are too embarrassed so we're trying to make things up.
urbanism as I'm like, any ramen volatile
is seven
to eighth century scholar,
and he had this understanding that everything is happening in the first 40 days, not the 120 days, the first 40 days. How do they arrive at that without the sort of the scientific developments that we have now? He said that the hadith of Hosea alpha or the Allahu Anhu indicates that hadith Viva talks about, you know,
Mara, but not far as an attorney, will Arba wanna Leila.
If when when 42 days passed by the sperm drop inside the womb, the angel will be sent to it to basically
make its form for someone to have a Holika somehow or Basara will have asthma.
So it will, it will basically form it create its form or make its form, and its hearing and vision and skin and bones, and so on. And then the angel, well breeze the way it's also said in this hadith,
that the angel will breathe the soul into it. So Kevin is on the county said, if everything happens in the first 40 days, we could also say that the three phases don't have basically to take up the 40 days everything is happening within the 14 days, that does not necessarily mean the take up all the 40 days. So they could finish all of them earlier within the first 40 days.
If you go to if you if you want to confirm that so these are two hotties here, if you want to confirm that you refer to a higher authority, the Quran in surah minimoon Allah subhanaw taala said some alicona Not Fatah, Holika Holika, Lala Tata Madiba Kalapana Munakata Varma FACA, salmonella, Yvonne LACMA, some man's and I will have done half our catabolic Allah Watson Philippi. So then we created so after Allah spoke is spoke about creators from mud, and putting us in a safe Lodge. Then we've created the motorcar or we made them they're not far into our data and data into a mandala. So now here is the mandala, the flesh, the lump of flesh, and then Allah says, Taka Lachenal Matata
Ivana. So a model comes before the Ivonne because some people can contest our understanding of the motor and and some people can say, Whoever told you that the motor is a lump of flesh, the motor that maybe
the fetus is with all four limbs and eyes and everything is still being called multiple by the Prophet salallahu Salam between 80 and 120 days post conception which is which doesn't basically agree or does not conform with the Quranic description of the phases of creation, because Allah clearly says, that the model will be turned into bones and the bones will be covered with flesh, then some children will have an alpha and keep in mind that some might indicate succession with delay, some might indicate succession with delay, which is different from fat, which does not basically infer that delay but immediate succession, but some inference succession was derived from
mantra now how can occur then we made him into a new creation or a different creation, and are they are they Allah Allah who said, that meant breeze the soul into
it, or into the fetus. So the soul would be breathed into the fetus
not
after the mandala is the or the phase of the mandala, but there are two phases that are being mentioned in the Quran. two phases that are being mentioned in the Quran, between the mother and the installment, the most part and the installment
that we have to account for
and then the installment happens in
But Rafi, you know, after a period of time, because Allah use thumb and not fair here, which indicates succession with delay. So what does that mean? It means and this is my own understanding, and I could be very wrong. It's very possible. You know, I'm often wrong. But But this my understanding my understanding is that we can keep our consensus regarding the 120 days and the installment.
And basically, with our new understanding of embryology, we can correct the, the sort of whatever it is that is mentioned about the genesis of the fetus in our legal heritage, and keep the installment at 120 days, because of the weight of consensus, even though it is not substantiated by the text. In this case, because our understanding of the text of Revelation is different. But the text of revelation itself is not saying that installment happens after the mother
which we don't know when the face of the muda ends. It says that it happens after the bones have been covered with flesh and with some delay.
So why am I why am I trying to force this consensus when it is unfounded on any text of Revelation, as I understand the text of Revelation, in terms of the different variations of the Hadith of the Lebanon Masood, combined with Hadith zifa in light of the AR in Surah, me known because the consensus even if it is not supported by text, and that's another of the disagreement and also the fact about the consensus, even if it's not supported by facts, by by evidence,
does have a weight, it does not have the weight of a definitive proof part of the the lead pottery, but it is called the little Vani which is a speculative proof. So unless we come up with a better proof, it will stand until we come up with a better proof. Consensus is a very complicated issue. And I am, you know, I'm not one of the people who basically exaggerate in the weight of consensus, unless there's a true consensus, because consensus most of the consensus is that have been reported in our legal heritage are not verifiable consensus is most of them and all of the scholars know this.
And at best, they are agnostic Guti, which is tacit consensus. And tacit consensus does not enjoy the same weight of
like a verbal clear, explicit consensus at best that would be the least Vani for a speculative proof.
So So why am I trying to save that consensus that 120 days? Because it seems that it seems that many people report for that.
And I'm not saying here that the OMA is guided by the Holy Spirit and disregard
like in the Christian understanding, but even though there is some disconnect between that consensus and what we haven't the revelation the Revelation does not precisely tell us when will installments take place? So we don't have anything to go by in terms of installment when does installment take place? Because there is this disagreement if you say Hadith was a phase clear 42 days, I will tell you certain meno disagrees with Hadith Khalifa because Surah Minoan has two phases after the module
before consultant or personhood. So when, when is it that person who takes place in the secular tradition
so some if you're completely secular, and he wants to discuss the concept of personhood,
and you don't believe in installment to begin with, when this person would take place in the secular tradition? It could take place at fertilization to some of them. So when the two when when fertilization takes place, when the sperm goes in, into the ovum and fertilizes the ovum, that's it. For for some, okay. It could. For others, it's implantation.
Which happens somewhere around one week
after fertilization. For others, it's when
it stops dividing, so there is no chance of twinning.
Because that would indicate that, you know, because if there isn't still a chance, have been twins, or the cell dividing, that's not personhood
to them. For others, it's with the first heartbeat 21 to 24 days post conception.
But for others, it is with the first voluntary movement and keep in keep in mind, the for very small voluntary movement is different from the first reflexive movement. First, reflexive movement happens currently. But the first voluntary movement happens around 120 days post conception.
That's the first voluntary movement. And if you ask pregnant women, when do you feel alive movements, they will tell you the fifth months is when they feel alive movements.
Immediately after that, the thalamus starts to Ford.
And that is the part of the brain that is in charge of complex thought.
So we do have, within the secular tradition, we do have, or within the scientific tradition, maybe we can say, we do have some grounds for adhering to the 120 days in terms of installment, and we don't have anything better in the tradition. And the revelation is not given us a precise date. So we're left with the revelation not given us a precise date. The tradition has given us the 120. And they're claiming a consensus.
Science is not being decisive, when you have different events that take place in fetal life. And people disagree which event indicates personhood, which is installment for us.
What does that mean? It means
some more leniency and flexibility when it comes to the rulings of abortion. It means some leaning more lenient and flexibility when it comes to the rulings of abortion.
Our Oklahoma because they didn't have this understanding.
Maybe because they didn't have this understanding, for whatever reason, but our PA had a lot of disagreement over
the ruining of abortion, if we start from the Hanafy position, the happy position and people will disagree over this all the time, because they're, you know, inside every month have there are disagreements.
They have certain
protocols to follow to identify the authorized or the Matana position inside every month.
And so when I say that the Hanafi is say it's permissible abortion is permissible until 120 days, I am using Ebenen her mom's
opinion or 30 and I'm using given a hobby Dean's 30 In this regard, having a habit even goes as far as saying that this is permissible even without the permission of the husband
or even without consulting the husband this is
basically the woman's decision
for up to 120 days. Now m&r Abdeen says that Ibnu Ban said that this
this cannot be true like there has to be a reason this can only be true for a need for a need. That is fine. I can I can see that. Because it is not really congruent with Sharia as objective or objectives to abort 100 day old fetus without a need just just aborted just because you're not in the mood to be a mother or something. It wouldn't make sense
to our shadow is out or taste
basically, so I can I can understand that.
But then if you come later and try to qualify the need, so some of the HANA fees did not qualify the permissibility.
Some qualify that with the need, but they, they did not qualify the knee. And if you try to basically forced on them
your qualification of the need
you just say that I disagree with the hammer fees, and that's fine, but be honest. That's fine. That's absolutely fine. You know, because I will tell you about the American position now, which will be completely different. Say I take America position, but don't basically read your biases into the heart of whomever.
Just just say, I disagree. That's it.
So we have then,
of course, we have some harpies, who
made that analogy between you know, the mushroom breaking the eggs of the, the, I think all of us are Imams, so I don't need to be I don't need to translate everything I believe. So they make this analogy between the mockery and breaking breaking the eggs of the haram. And they say that if the Mokra and break that breaks the eggs of the Haram is liable, because that's the origin of the bird or the gamebirds of the haram.
And if that is the case, then aborting the fetus, which is the origin of the human should also be a liability. So somehow he's saying that and you know some Shafi say that, remember has already said that,
despite the fact that the champagne position is different, but there is interim of heavy differences. So for the Maliki's for the Maliki's. They say that you can't expel the * once it gets inside.
So they are strict to that extent in this regard for so for the Maliki's, you cannot even expand the *
once it gets inside. And for some Maliki's you cannot drink medicine that will lessen your progeny. That will lessen your progeny. A laugh me and Imam and Lakshmi have the Maliki's disagreed, and he was more inclined towards the position that will be the authorized Hanbury position, which is the permissibility in the first 40 days, because that is the period of the not far or the sperm drop to them.
Then the shaft valleys
would concur with HANA fees on the permissibility. In the first 120 days, someone will say, you know, are you more Scheffer II then remember was the only who said that it's not permissible that at any time and he gave the analogy of vital haram? No, of course not. But again, Mr. Moran, Lee and the other than Yachty, and others, who would basically look at the difference in opinion between the earlier scholars of the mother and favor, some over others. They said that our mother is still the permissibility in the first 120 days.
Despite him I'm gonna hazard his disagreement. They do say that. So
then we come to the Hannah Hanbury position, which seems to be the most popular position nowadays among the contemporary scholars in the handle authorized Hanbury position, they say it's permissible in the first 40 days in the first 40 days.
Okay, synthesis is extremely important, right, because analysis is important, but synthesis is more important than our analysis. And then nowadays, they say application is more important than census but anyway, but synthesis is important.
Our contemporary scholars, how did they synthesize all of this and the disagreements of the earlier scholars and the developments and science and embryology and so on? It seems that you know, and I'm trying to be brief here because we can talk about this for hours, but it seems that our contemporary scholars are inclined to allowing abortion for a reason, for some reason, unqualified
reason that the parents have in the first 40 days. So mutual agreement between the two parents
In the first 40 days, and they have a reason, but they were not particularly strict about qualifying the reason they said any had a reason, you know, the parents have the reason.
Of course, there will be many scholars, contemporary scholars who say no, no to wait from day one. I'm just saying that it seems that the majority are more inclined to allowing it permitting it in the first 40 days between 40 and 120. And this is the position of the
of the mouths of
rabbits tribal Islam, Muslim wordly our what is it?
Yeah, I guess,
word Muslim leak.
So Arabic was an ottoman Islami
there, Matt Ma, which is the madman Maccha. They're not sad, for the first 40 days were in the between 40 and 120 days, it would be permissible, if there are basically deformities in the fetus that would preclude the child from having a normal dignified life. And he said to say hi to Allah and Allah you are adding, if if his higher will become just a source of pain for him and his family, then it would be permissible between 40 to 120 days, now, all of them will say,
it is impermissible after 120 days, with one exception. And this one exception is not even a matter of agreement, but it is the stronger of opinion. And to me, it is clearly the correct opinion.
That if the if the mother's life is in danger, it would be permissible at any time because you don't sacrifice
the root for the brand she sacrificed the branch further.
And she is the cost of that fetus. So in summary, that is that's the current basically trend within the scholarly community regarding abortion. And that's the background of
that trend. I don't know if you want me to stop and just
say pharma want me
say financial second last paid on for this explanation I might request you inshallah Allah to give a summary of everything. We have talked from a third perspective now. Because we discovered that mashallah, we have also some doctors joined the the Zoom meeting here. So maybe we give them what is needed for them.
And maybe before we speak here, if any doctor have any specific question, or any Imam have a specific question before, Dr. Hatton goes with the with the summary for this specific
point about the beginning of life or the abortion issue, which a lot of Imams get asked, it's panela. And I myself, like in a small community, I've been asked about this maybe two or three times, especially with that with the legal laws that goes ups and downs in regard to that and some states that the issue something again is to work in support to that issue. So, there is anyone now we will give maybe five seconds,
let me suggest that because it is very hard for me, like brevity is not one of my skills. So let me suggest to make this in the form of questions and answers. So that people get what they came here to hear, I guess or to listen to.
So
all everyone Hamdulillah he got the points and he got this explanation in mind where anyone needs an explanation. Anyone need any answers for for his question?
So far? Oh my god, Michelle.
Yes, naniko. I'm a family physician coming from London. I just wanted to ask you say a few words about a common question I get from my patients which is about in the UK we routinely screened for Down syndrome.
And this is ideally done before the gestational age of about three months, but sometimes it can be delayed for various reasons and
It can happen, you know, a few weeks after this point as well. And then the patient is given a risk of the child having downs. And usually if it's more than 1% in the UK, we recommend, medically the doctors might recommend an abortion. I just wonder if you could say something, a few words about that please run Islamic perspective, which is Agulla.
Okay, I
this is an extremely difficult question. Extremely difficult. And I have been toying with this question for years.
Okay.
The idea here is, is when you say that it is permissible, it, it actually hurts people who have kids with Down syndrome. It makes them feel like you like like you're saying that their kids life is not valuable.
The idea here is, I would refrain, I always refrain from making that determination for the parents.
We should leave some room for people to make up their mind or to make their decisions.
There is like a statement from a man they may or may not Allah that I like a lot about the role of Il ham, which is divine inspiration. That's not divine revelation. That's just the sort of divine inspiration the vital V guidance, something of that nature. That the L Ham has a role, not only for the most tea time that a cafe or when he has like sort of equal
proofs on both sides of the argument
or when the Mufti is having difficulty, sort of favoring one argument over another, but also when the move T is disagree? When the Mufti is disagree, and then when staff t
then wants to favor one position over another. I would say I would leave it to them. Steph T's inclinations.
Certainly you've ever been a mayor said you know my fashion dilemma. I'm Oracle ba ba Taqwa or bad another what the hurry. So he put all of the basically the guardrails. To prevent us from abusing this concept, you need to have asked you need to have done your best and investigating but you have
legitimate MFG teas with legitimate positions substantiated, but by some proofs of the Sharia, giving you different
conclusions, then,
there is time for the individual who is asking to whom this fatwa will apply, there is time for them basically to factor in their value system, their individual circumstances, their individual inclinations, and seek Allah's guidance, raise the bar and seek Allah's guidance and so on and make the determination between them the you know, the mom and the dad, they need to make that determination, but I will refrain from saying
anything more than this, I guess, I am just I am telling you that between 40 to 120 days, there is room.
And according to many of the contemporary scholars, this permissibility will apply to the case where a medical condition has been diagnosed and is expected to make the life of the person difficult and a cause of pain for them and for their family. How with the sort of individuals apply this to their own
circumstances and scenarios, I would leave it to them
I'm Dr. For xRM. And I hope that this answer was satisfactory. I understand
We may not be but please
understand my hesitation here. No, no just below here and I fully understand and as you said, that is my practice actually to advise my patients exactly as you said to do Sahara and seek the opinions of the sheikh or whoever is their spiritual guidance but then ultimately it's their decision after their sword is to hire etc and and taken the relevant steps. So, this is what I usually advise if they asked me and also just want to say that sometimes you know, we are not always right, doctors are can't necessarily know everything and I've seen cases where women have come back with perfectly normal healthy babies where they've decided to go ahead with a pregnancy and hamdulillah the child
was not affected with Down's and they've come in to show me and tell me 100 Now that they're pleased with the decision and the discussions that we had so just I've got nothing here I understand it's a difficult area
my benefit
just on all
different hats, do you suggest that we go the second with the second point here which is actually the org organ and blood donation?
I would like you basically to drive
you know, just sit in the driver's seat and just let me let you know what I should do when
you're the leader here.
It's actually easier for me, I don't like it, it will be much easier for me, he will take that burden off of my soul that I think that the beginning of the hierarchy is covered May Allah bless you shipowner, here we go to the inshallah next topic now and then we see there's an interest because we don't see any question I also requested people to post their questions, concerns and comments if they have any. So we are very grateful to Dr. Farzana. MashAllah sopressata joining us on live from UK and raising this this question which was very which is very valid and as you said, it's very difficult when handled I think probably this is what
we get the idea how should we proceed inshallah from here to the next topic?
So, what's the next step because
as mentioned actually on the flyer that the organ and blood donation and transplantation
Okay, so, so, so, organ donation, organ donation transplantation will be just one topic. And blood blood donation is under the same topic, but, you know, in general, so organ donation organ transplantation, including blood.
So, okay, to be brief, so that we can cover more subjects. To be brief, the majority of Muslim scholars, the majority of Muslim scholars, there have been
declarations from different Madonna, the masma in India was the strictest madman this regard.
And I do have, you know, many Hanafi scholars basically replying
with their own contentions against the decisions made by the magma in India.
But in general, among them, Madonna, you know, some of these structures, some will be sort of more lenient, and we don't always have to think that the more lenient is better, you know, or more knowledgeable or greater. We would like to make things easy for people but but again, at the same time, we want to allow a free discourse so that the pressure is not placed on on the move teen to always say it's hard, it's harder, and it's harder and smarter.
So, the trend among the most of the scholars is the permissibility of organ donation and organ transplantation with certain exceptions and certain conditions. What are the exceptions, the exceptions for the scholars are
basically to transfer the you know, organs that transfer the genetic code.
These will be testicles and ovaries, these will not be permissible
to to donate or to transplant.
The other exception for this quarters
would be and this is like.
This is something that some of the scholars talked about. It is hypothetical, it's futuristic, the brain because it's basically
they have some disagreement over brain transplantation which is not a reality. But just in case in the future.
or, that's, that's an area where some of the scholars talked about, and they think that this would be an exception.
But to the exceptions that have been addressed are the organs that would transfer the genetic code. And they talked about our mobile lover,
which is basically the external genitalia *.
You know, I, for some reason, I, you know, I, but But anyway, that's the position of magma of the agenda, which is the biggest mouth the International Islamic Academy.
So I would not disagree with them. It's a it's a large group of senior scholars.
But anyway,
it's, it's clear to me the impermissibility of transplant of the ovaries and testicles is clear to me, I should say that then the external genitalia.
So, these are the exceptions, what are the conditions that conditions are the presence of a need for organ transplantation? If if other medical interventions would result in satisfactory outcome, comparable comparable
outcome, then other medical interventions would be favored, which is understandable, that's even understandable from a medical perspective. That's the second condition is that it would not cause greater harm than the benefit accrues, which is also understandable, because there are mild bedarra said the main Minho method.
So harm should not be averted by harm that is greater or equal, because that would be you know, not conducive to any benefit. So, if the person that will donate the Oregon will not, you know, certainly that would be harm, and there's some harm, but this harm is not life altering harm.
The harm here is that when you donate your kidney,
there will be surgery, they will, they will open you up to get your kidney out, and there is a possibility that you may suffer some consequences, that is why
based on the concept of harm and making, making it a condition,
I would suggest that people younger than 40 years of age should not donate their kidneys. Because if lead life expectancy, like here in America would be around 80 years, within the 40 years, you will need every nephron that you have donated basically to keep you healthy, and to keep you from having hypertension and kidney failure and so on. So, people who like if you donate at age 20, your other kidney may get exhausted by age 60 And you may start to suffer complications.
So, it would be preferred that younger people less than 40 would not need their kidneys, for instance. So, these are the conditions and these are the exceptions otherwise, organ donation would be permissible, it would be permissible, whether the recipient is Muslim or not, because he could have it covered in rot bah sadaqa you know, so, every act of benevolence, you will be rewarded for it will be considered a charitable
act of benevolence towards any
living beings, any living entity, any being with a moist never any living entity, you will be rewarded for this
donation of blood would be considered certainly permissible if organ donation is permissible donation of blood would be permissible. But
when it comes to blood, because that's, you know, the other condition the scholars laid down also that I forgot to mention is that this would be a donation. Now, let's say
there is like some disagreement nowadays. Between
you know, some disagreement regarding a compensation for blood, certainly blood is nudges and it is haram for us to have anything that is not is what some people are contending that you know the people who donate blood for income, these are poor people and so on and so forth. And
you know, the effort and the
The time etc etc but you know the standard pathways still prefer to have the majority the standard pathway stem organ donation is only permissible if it is a benevolent act not a transaction
or profit seeking transaction
and that includes duration of blood
that's
so true and supplanting
an Oregon we spoke about the donation concept now but what about someone is already like they got the this organ from a person that he's already dying or from an accident. shifnal The same rules apply to that right.
Yes, of course. So,
so, if someone dies organ donation from a living person to another living person, is what we have discussed, if someone dies and they had left and that's what the madman India does not accept the madman India does not accept that they do not consider that this was a or this will to be a valid one. But the majority of the scholars have allowed this if in there was a day allowed
basically the harvesting of their organs or that's the medical term that we use with maybe
Kurt but the if they allowed the harvesting of their organs for the purpose of transplantation and that would be okay. If they're out here allowed it after their deaths that would still also be okay. So it's either them allowing them before their deaths in there was a year or they're only allowing it after their deaths in these two cases it would be allowed to transfer from that's the categoric or the organ transplantation
any question most if not all doctors
you can write your questions also in the chat part
all right.
Would you like to move on or we take a little break
as you like,
share shoot it last
night I guess we could just give five minutes break inshallah and then we'll be right back I have received oh my god shift. Rahim. Salam Alikum Mashallah. Hey, we have a question from Atlanta, Georgia with Chef Ryan Carter, who was the man here with mustard also salat wa salam ala chef. So,
he asked about it probably we can discuss this question and then we can take a five minutes break and inshallah we come back and we move on to the next topic. He says that the post that donation apply equally between
the para darle Hara and that was that was the real Islam although Salaam.
Yes, yes. As I said, the donation to anyone Muslim or non Muslim is a charitable act and a charitable act, you know, every human being is basically how deserving recipient for a charitable act.
There is nothing about Sharia that would prevent the nation to
to another human being. And in terms of, of data Harbor, the Andaman Islam, the classification of the boats to the abode of Islam and the abode of war is a classification that was basically
descriptive, not prescriptive, I may say,
which means that the folks made this classification to describe the reality in their times. But it's not limited to this because there is not a lot which is the abode of treaty, for instance. It is also preferred, and that's my you know, that's my inclination that we have the abode of security that an am abode of security not necessarily you don't ever have to because data landed that is the perspective of the Muslim state. But what is my perspective as an American citizen
Uh,
you know, I'm not in a treaty with America, you know, it is for me, the abode of security, the abode of safety. So it is where I can practice my Deen
freely and I am not basically coerced to change it or to denounce it, disavow it. So I think it's the border of security. And so in this case, in this case,
donating your organ to a combatant, I would not suggest that you do.
Like, it's quite obvious.
But if I am here in America, and this is the abode of safety, the abode of security, I'm American citizen. And we were just talking about this issue, you know, the Pledge of Allegiance for instance, this is a question that we just got the Pledge of Allegiance kids, you know, some of our kids get beaten, because they don't.
In some schools, some schools where they still have the Pledge of Allegiance, if a kid does not stand up
for that, they can be harmed. So what we what you can say to them is basically a Spider Man is sorry, 100 Wattana here.
Uh, you know,
there is no problem in basically thinking of
wholesome meanings of nationality. You know, like, as an extension of neighborliness, we are commanded to be neighborly. And that goes out in circles. So the nation is basically
the wider circle of this concept. So think about something that is wholesome, while still believing that your ultimate ultimate loyalty is to God, and no one. And that is, you know, that's not even contestable by most of the Christians in this country, that your ultimate loyalty is to God, because God is the ultimate goodness. And
basically, it's not, you know, when your ultimate point is, the God does not rearranging your prejudice, prejudices, but you are basically initiating your prejudices, and you are making an ultimate loyalty to the ultimate goodness. Anyway.
So in the border of secure in the border security, there is no problem in donating your organs to any person, whether it's Muslim or non Muslim. Every human being is a deserving recipient of your benevolence and charity.
I will rephrase what we get here on the chat.
Like saying, What if a person or a donor started to doubt about the destination of his Oregon, like, like he, he started to doubt that maybe this blood or this organ is going like like, for example, they ask it for just the blood, just a blood. And his intention is to give it to civilians, or to people in this area. And he doesn't know where this blood going to be? Or he that or he's not sure about this organization or this hospital that taking the medicine? Because we got a question here saying I think my main concern is that the donation cannot be designated who's deaf? And there is a chance that the waiting list could promote giving the Oregon to military personnel or whoever.
What if someone is not comfortable with a particular you know, act or
is not, you know, no one is required to do this
to you as a donor? Yes, it's up. It's up to you as a donor. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. Hamdulillah.
Any any other questions brothers
do Maasai.
Does that come on? Any comments from Dr. Jamal for us?
Any corrections?
That if, if you don't mind second, unmute yourself.
Shift now we can
shift mnemonic into the terminal microphone. Let me
So I'm off to Dr. Jamal
has started his five minute break.
Yeah, I just think oh, right. Can you hear me? Yeah, we hear you.
We hear you. Okay.
One practical issue. And I experienced that myself.
Many, many years ago, I don't know whether we're 30 or 40. When you come to that
it's very difficult to remember everything, but I was visiting some Muslim country
that has a large or substantial
number of Muslims.
And
I would not designate for where I don't want to embarrass anyone, but when the issue of transplant was raised,
and one Mufti
said
basically, that it is not permissible to donate organs to a non Muslim. Alright. Doctor has a masala cover that both from the Sharia and, you know, practical perspective. But you know, what happened is that other groups also said that, since Muslims are not going to donate to us, we decided also not to donate to Muslims. And, of course, the central question here,
again, deaths up to experts like Dr. Hakim to explain that the match ability is very important, avoiding rejection. So the more the larger the pool of donors, the more possibility of non rejection.
So that necessarily, I mean, that's a practical issue here. We want to treat people as we want them to treat us.
Good, good point. Chipman does that. And that opens. Also the gate for
our Imams. About the source of fatwa. So happy
about the source of fat. Well, you want to
the point that Dr. Jamal was talking about now is about some fat our just to come from some move to that.
As a Muslim, you can correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Jamal, that Muslims cannot don't donate their organs to non Muslims. Am I right? Yeah. The question of donating organs. There are scholars who said that you can donate to anyone or many scholars who said that you cannot donate to anyone.
But the issue of not donating to a Muslim, I just wondered why.
I did talk about the combatant? Because you're not right. Like it would make sense. Someone is combatant? It would make sense. But aside from that, I don't know what is the legal basis or ratio leaders their legal basis for such possession? Because I don't seem like to find it.
sadhaka charity, it's a charitable act. It's a benevolent, charitable act, our non Muslims, basically
recipients of your charitable act or benevolent act, yes, of course you could give us other than non Muslims. Now, the question is, again, it's a different question. Because, yes, because it's an obligation, and it's an obligation to, but keep in mind that, you know, those whose hearts are to be reconciled, or not Muslim, you know, according to the Maliki's or honeyberries, at least, that this is still applicable. And it's applicable applicable to non Muslims, at least according to the Americans are from Belize.
But But what I wanted to say is, where is it that South Africa that is the North America, South Africa is not permitted? And isn't organ donation a form of charitable benevolent behavior? A form of sadaqa it is so sadaqa and had a year are both permitted to Muslims or non Muslims. And the same applies here. So I and certainly I agree with what Stephen Thurman said.
I'm not gonna stand on
And for that just I wanted to indicate and it's not the topic for today, that when we get the fat where for some our massage and that they just delivered the fat where
they have to see the source that is issuing the fat well, because mainly the source of the fat workers is very important, as we have seen Dr. Hatem and Schaffer now took her hat on now, since he he started from the beginning to the end, he relied everything on the sources and reasoning of his power in regard to the topics that we talk either
about the the beginning of life and abortion issues or about the trans plantation issue. And so our next next topic is going to be about the cosmetic surgeries and issues that you brothers in short, like concerned about Ramadan, or medical issue in regard to Ramadan, but maybe May we take a short like a short break of five minutes, you go you grab your coffee, and come back and exactly five minutes so it's now
1230 We're going to restart in and resume in sha Allah on 1235 align that timing with your own timezone in sha Allah does that
said I'm Monica de la hora capital allows a lot of salam ala Rasulillah Welcome back, I hope that I need before we start, I would love to
just put, like, say, I hope that you forgive my hesitant just to hosting one of my teachers, she had them and some of our machinery like the traditional models. So any this is
something has to happen.
So now we're going to resume speaking and continue talking about what we're recovering from the contemporary medical issues that face us as Imams.
When it comes to people or our communities asking about we have covered
from a medical perspective, the issue of the beginning of life,
specifically speaking about the abortion issues,
and also life support, I think
life support, we haven't covered the car, it's in terms of the end of life.
Maybe Maybe we cover it at the end of law. So we started with the beginning of life and we end with the end of life as well. We also spoke about or we cover the issue of blood donation, transplantation and organ donation.
Now it's not law, maybe we start speaking about the women question that we always get asked, like cosmetic and also for our brothers that they have.
Money maybe I don't know if it's right or wrong to say the facts.
My chef can correct me if I'm right or wrong.
When they asked her back because metric surgeries, so shipment in London?
Well, because my neck surgery in general
is also is a debatable issue. And certainly it's a source of controversy.
We have to agree on a first premise, which is that colocalize Hasn't have a lot of the creation of Allah subhanaw taala is beautiful and the Prophet sallallahu sallam said this when someone had a deformity and has legs. And you know the hadith is bad and he had like a longer garment and he told them lift up your garment. He said I have a defect in my legs. And the prophets of salaam said to him, Eli Hassan. So this is something that we really have to to emphasize that all of the creation of Allah is beautiful. And we have to emphasize the importance of having this gratefulness for Allah subhanaw taala for having created as an accent that we are in the best mold in the best shape as
human beings. And despite the differences in our creation,
where we have been all as humans created in the best shape.
So when hamdulillah Now that does not mean that
sometimes there are basically
what you call deformities that are e
They're acquired or congenital. So some people are born with certain deformities, that is by being outside of the normal spectrum of human variation. So there is a spectrum of human variation if you're outside of that normal spectrum of human variation, that would be called a deformity Allah created, you know, Osama health and sickness and deformities as part of his scheme. Part of his plan
is to bring that to the world as well. It's not up to law, it's, it's an abode of testing, II created life and dust testers to try. So that has to be understood as well. And in this sense, that they agreed that cosmetic surgery to
I would not say they agree, because there are always people who disagree, we're talking about here, we're talking about the large the vast majority of scholars allowed his medic surgery, to fix a deformity, whether it's acquired or congenital, whether it's acquired or congenital. So someone who has a six digit can be removed the six digit, yes, we would say that this is outside of the normal spectrum of human variation.
Now, the issue that would be more controversial is if you are within the sort of the
spectrum, normal spectrum,
but you have
something that
they call it the manner something that is considered ugly, for instance,
would you be able to
fix that? Or would you be able to improve that through surgery, and that's controversial, and in the multiple, multiple facts of the Muslim World League.
In 1988, the address to this issue, as far as I remember, it was 1988 or something, I think 88 So they addressed this issue, and the the said that if there is
basically the manner that is causing you physical or psychological, suffering, physical or psychological suffering, and now in the way things aren't Madonna, there must have been a couple of very active scholars that were really pushing that psychological
sort of addition to the phrasing of the, you know, the declaration or the decision.
But, but at any rate, that that went through in masma. And, you know, so that they vote and it's so, the majority position was to accept psychological suffering as a form of suffering.
So, in this case, if there is,
if there is like some ugliness in to that, that is causing the person to suffer psychologically,
then it would be permissible to improve that or to enhance the shape of that organ.
But again, it we have to be very clear on discouraging events, we have to be very clear on discouraging this, if it does not fall outside of the normal spectrum of human variation.
Because it's,
it's, it's ungrateful, in you know, and at the same time, also the ones he opened open the door for this, you can't close it, it's just
that all of us would have to go through cosmetic surgery and you know, and that would be the dream of the community of plastic surgeons.
You know, and technology will improve and surgery will be better and better and easier, easier. So the dream of the community of plastic surgeons that everybody
you know, gets that sort of obsession about their ear or their nose or like
any anything that they they see to be sub optimum or not as beautiful as they