Hamzah Wald Maqbul – The Struggle to Know Episode 005 Imam Dawud Walid

Hamzah Wald Maqbul
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The speakers discuss the deification of Islam and the importance of finding a spiritual mentor and guiding people to their values. They also emphasize the deification of degrades and the need for people to be firm in their positions. The speakers stress the importance of respect for human beings' lifestyle and acknowledge the political agenda of gayity. They also touch on the topic of black lives and the importance of rewarding reformists and learning from experiences.

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			This is Mila Herahman Rahaim.
		
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			Welcome back to the struggle to know.
		
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			We are here in Canton, Michigan. Yes. And,
		
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			we have
		
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			a very
		
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			special guest today. And I will go ahead
		
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			and pass it over so everyone can introduce
		
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			themselves.
		
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			Oh, before introducing, our our, honored guest, I
		
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			wanted to, just give a couple of our
		
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			our our, honored guest, I wanted to just
		
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			give a couple of acknowledgements
		
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			and give thanks.
		
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			First of all, to brother,
		
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			Sej Shafi'i Adeen Ahmed whose equipment
		
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			we're borrowing because the Cleveland Public Library,
		
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			their equipment wasn't
		
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			available for a loan. They graciously loan us
		
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			their equipment for,
		
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			for our podcast in the past. But today,
		
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			it wasn't available. So Shafi Mancha came through.
		
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			He
		
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			has his own podcast called the Chains of
		
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			Narration podcast and we urge everybody to check
		
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			it out.
		
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			And
		
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			I'd also like to thank our special guest
		
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			today,
		
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			one of the founding members of CARE
		
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			Michigan, and one of the early workers in
		
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			the CARE movement,
		
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			and one of the pillars of the community
		
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			here in Detroit,
		
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			and a
		
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			renowned author who's written on a number of
		
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			very important topics,
		
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			and,
		
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			just a very honorable person,
		
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			Imam Dawood Walid,
		
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			who is,
		
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			who we're in his care office right now
		
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			in Detroit. So, Assalamu alaikum, and welcome Detroit.
		
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			So,
		
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			Assalamu alaikum. Welcome to our podcast. And, obviously,
		
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			we have our brother, your brother,
		
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			Musa Siggukum.
		
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			Call call him
		
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			brother
		
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			Musa Call call him Sheikh. Otherwise, I'm gonna
		
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			break your windows. And,
		
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			and, you know, I didn't actually introduce myself.
		
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			I said not to do that. So my
		
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			name is, Tristan Wheeler, and,
		
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			I am a native
		
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			Clevener
		
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			and serve on the York board,
		
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			at one of the messiahs in the city
		
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			of Cleveland. And one of the beautiful things
		
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			about our dean is it brings people together.
		
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			So not very often can you have Ohio
		
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			and Michigan come together in peace
		
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			and have a discussion with love and compassion
		
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			and thoughtfulness. Bless you all.
		
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			So, Imam Dawood,
		
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			I would like to kick off the podcast.
		
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			It seems that we we do this in
		
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			the beginning. It is very enriching for
		
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			the listeners. Maybe tell us a little bit
		
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			about yourself.
		
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			Tell us a little bit about your journey
		
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			through, life and what got you to the
		
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			point where you are in terms of your
		
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			knowledge, in terms of your spiritual growth, your
		
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			personal growth,
		
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			your activism, politics, all of these things. Maybe,
		
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			lead us to a point that we can
		
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			inshallah,
		
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			then jump off from there in a more
		
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			organic discussion
		
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			in order to benefit.
		
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			First of all, let me say it's a
		
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			honor and privilege to be on this podcast,
		
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			and I'm actually a,
		
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			a listener
		
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			and a viewer.
		
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			I may Allah reward you all for the
		
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			work you're doing as far as the the
		
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			the Dawah and also,
		
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			helping get out,
		
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			stories of of of people who are doing
		
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			contributions
		
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			to,
		
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			to this deen and doing
		
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			on behalf of Muslims and humankind. So
		
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			give you all of you
		
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			and protect you and protect your families
		
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			and protect all of those who you love.
		
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			So a little bit about my background. I
		
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			was born Detroit, but I was raised
		
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			in Central Virginia.
		
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			Took a little pit stop in New York
		
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			for a moment.
		
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			I have a so called interfaith family, meaning
		
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			that I have Muslims
		
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			on my father's side.
		
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			My mother's side is 100%
		
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			Christian.
		
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			May may Allah guide them. He guide my
		
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			mother.
		
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			My,
		
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			my influence
		
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			is,
		
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			I'll start with my father. My father,
		
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			grew up off of,
		
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			Clermont
		
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			and Linwood.
		
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			And historically speaking, this is on the west
		
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			side of Detroit.
		
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			That's down the street from Masjid Wai Mohammed,
		
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			which used to be temple number 1 during
		
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			the time of the Nation of Islam. I
		
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			do. And it was the first place where
		
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			Malcolm X,
		
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			ever spoke at Right. When he got prison.
		
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			So my father
		
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			lived in that neighborhood, and he went to
		
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			the high school that's directly across the street
		
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			called Central High. So,
		
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			his introduction
		
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			to
		
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			Islam wasn't,
		
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			Quran and Sunnah as we understand it today,
		
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			but, through the nation.
		
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			And, he listened to the Muslims,
		
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			or the Nation of Islam members speak.
		
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			And, he would also go and eat at
		
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			the restaurant, which is next door.
		
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			And after
		
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			two
		
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			times hearing the the speeches, he,
		
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			he went back to my grandmother
		
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			and,
		
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			actually,
		
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			said that he wasn't gonna eat,
		
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			pork anymore. And, the story goes that she
		
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			brought him a plate of, she made some
		
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			pork chops
		
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			and put in front of my father. And
		
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			my father being like a teenager and being
		
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			somewhat radical in his thought, he pushed the
		
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			plate off away from him onto the floor.
		
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			He said, I'm not eating that rat. You
		
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			know, because the Nation of Islam mythology, they
		
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			say that a pig is part dog, part
		
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			cat, and other part rat. So it's aggressive
		
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			animal. Right? So so,
		
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			but, just fast forward, my my parents divorced
		
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			when I was,
		
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			pretty young.
		
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			And at the age of 6, I then
		
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			went to New York
		
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			and then,
		
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			to Virginia, and I've only come up to
		
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			visit.
		
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			And the only thing that I knew about
		
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			Islam was,
		
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			a
		
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			picture, on the wall of my, cousin.
		
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			He all he all had a picture of
		
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			Malcolm X.
		
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			But not Malcolm, under the nation of Islam
		
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			Malcolm X, it was El Hajj
		
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			Malik at Shabaz
		
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			and a picture of him with his with
		
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			a beard, and that was on the wall.
		
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			And,
		
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			that imagery,
		
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			kept something alive inside me. I never really
		
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			accepted Christianity.
		
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			My mother used to send me to Sunday
		
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			school and all these things growing up.
		
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			And, what really sparked my interest
		
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			in Islam,
		
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			oddly was the,
		
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			the conscious rap music of the late eighties.
		
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			Many of them would talk about Malcolm x,
		
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			reference to Quran. Some of them were Sunni
		
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			Muslims. Most of them were part of
		
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			so called 5% nation or nation of Islam
		
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			members.
		
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			That got me interested in reading
		
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			the autobiography
		
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			of Malcolm x at 17.
		
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			Then I read
		
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			a book on the life of the prophets,
		
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			and then that's basically what got me into,
		
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			the practice
		
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			of Islam
		
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			and accepting,
		
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			the religion
		
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			or the way of life of my forefathers
		
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			was actually the bridge of that was
		
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			through actually,
		
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			rap music,
		
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			at that time. Unlike the, garbage that's out
		
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			the day that really has no redeeming,
		
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			characteristics, but there were,
		
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			some things that,
		
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			the black consciousness movement really,
		
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			was a bridge of leading a lot of
		
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			people,
		
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			in my generation,
		
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			into
		
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			into reading more about Islam and and exploring
		
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			Islam.
		
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			Then
		
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			just to just to fast forward some,
		
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			I began to take,
		
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			some, Arabic classes.
		
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			I had,
		
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			some teachers that,
		
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			began to study grammar under and saw for,
		
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			morphology,
		
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			and other books that began to be,
		
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			read.
		
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			I've been sat with some of the,
		
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			Where Michigan? Detroit? This is Michigan. Yes. Yes.
		
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			Yes. Then,
		
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			a teacher
		
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			who taught at the
		
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			Islamic,
		
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			University in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, which I studied
		
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			under him for a while. And I
		
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			read, the
		
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			with
		
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			him. And then I, I sat with some
		
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			of the in
		
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			West Africa.
		
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			I, I first went to,
		
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			to Mali
		
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			in, first the Bamako with Sheikh,
		
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			Mahmoud Jialo,
		
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			Hafidullah.
		
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			And then I spent some time in in
		
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			in Mopdi.
		
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			And may Allah help our brothers and sisters
		
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			in Mali, the French, have done a lot
		
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			of,
		
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			mischief and arming people, commit some violence.
		
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			And then, you know, I I still consider
		
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			myself a,
		
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			a student, and I don't even like to
		
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			be called,
		
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			imam or sheikh. I am more of a,
		
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			a person that tries to do a fitna
		
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			for the deen and do some. And,
		
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			I think that the only
		
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			I basically feel I'm in a position
		
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			to do Dawah simply because out of necessity.
		
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			It's not out of choice. Like, you know,
		
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			so I don't
		
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			and I'm not saying this out of false
		
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			humility. Like, I I don't see myself as
		
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			an alum,
		
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			even though I've,
		
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			set,
		
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			I've set with the scholars, but I'm not
		
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			one of them. So I'll just I'll just
		
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			leave it at that.
		
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			Well, I'll increase you in your knowledge and
		
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			make you and all of us the imams
		
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			of the. This is a du'a
		
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			of the Quran.
		
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			And it's not by choice,
		
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			but someone has to lead the prayer. So
		
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			even if there's no imam and it's time
		
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			to pray, someone has to step forward. And
		
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			usually, it's by making yourself available
		
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			by being in the front self which is
		
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			like serving
		
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			that
		
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			you make yourself
		
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			available and not by choice, but you get
		
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			pushed forward.
		
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			If
		
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			any of us are are found in that
		
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			position, may Allah make us worthy of that
		
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			and allow to fulfill the trust that that
		
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			comes with.
		
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			And if you don't mind me asking, that
		
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			whole awakening that you
		
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			had, that took place while you were in
		
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			high school? I started when I was in
		
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			high school. Starting when I was in high
		
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			school. I started when I was in high
		
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			school. Yes. Because I think I mean, nowadays,
		
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			it's important.
		
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			I I think for people to understand that,
		
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			that
		
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			that age is very important. It's very significant.
		
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			People are more mature than we realize. Our
		
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			little kids who we look at as babies
		
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			who are in high school now, they're not
		
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			babies.
		
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			And they're capable of understanding things intellectually.
		
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			And we have to stop treating them like
		
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			babies sometimes, and we have to start treating
		
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			them like mature,
		
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			intellectual, young minds so that we can shape
		
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			it properly.
		
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			And when was it that you actually started
		
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			taking that journey of, like, Arabic and studying
		
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			more seriously?
		
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			19.
		
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			19. 19. Right. But the,
		
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			the issue of, Right after high school. Yeah.
		
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			Right after high school. And,
		
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			but going back to that, and,
		
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			I remember, like, a 15 or 16 years
		
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			old
		
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			friends of mine, we would sit, and just
		
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			to show my age. We were sitting listening
		
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			to
		
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			Malcolm X on vinyl. Like it wasn't cassette.
		
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			There was a 12 inch, vinyl.
		
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			Like, it wasn't cassette. There was a 12
		
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			inch record. On one side was the message
		
00:11:43 --> 00:11:44
			to the grassroots.
		
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			The other side was the ballot of the
		
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			bullet. A lot of the speeches that were
		
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			given,
		
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			message of grassroots was given in in, in
		
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			a church in Detroit not far away.
		
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			And,
		
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			you still have the vinyl? I don't have
		
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			the vinyl. But we were sitting back talking
		
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			about
		
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			geopolitics
		
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			at 15 or 16 years old. Like we
		
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			were talking about I just opened up our
		
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			minds. We were talking about
		
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			COINTELPRO
		
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			and,
		
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			Jamal Abdul Nasar and,
		
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			other movements that were going on.
		
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			It opened up us,
		
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			talking about the,
		
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			the Islamic movement in Nigeria
		
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			of the Soko Taw
		
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			Caliphate
		
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			of Sheikh Othman,
		
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			Binfuri,
		
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			Like, if we were talking about things then,
		
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			that
		
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			were adult conversations that we we started to
		
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			open up. And so we were serious. You
		
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			know, a lot of us were very serious.
		
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			And,
		
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			but we were introduced
		
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			to
		
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			a discourse that was serious. And then we
		
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			also had some elders that were around might
		
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			mean my elders. I don't mean old.
		
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			Back in that time when we called someone
		
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			old head or an OG, this was someone
		
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			who was, like, in their twenties Mhmm.
		
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			That would,
		
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			wouldn't shoo away us teenagers. But at the
		
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			same time, we still gave them a a
		
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10
			level of deference or respect that
		
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			there were people that somewhat we looked up
		
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			to. Right? So,
		
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			that was a very special time in the
		
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			late eighties and early nineties. And were any
		
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			of those, like, old cat OGs Muslim?
		
00:13:23 --> 00:13:24
			Yes. Some of them were Muslim. Okay. Some
		
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			of them were. There was one brother, actually
		
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			who was a Muslim,
		
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			on the sunnah who came from New York
		
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			and had moved down to,
		
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			to to Virginia. African American? African American. Yeah.
		
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			And this is, and when I'm talking about
		
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			this, all these people I'm having discussions with
		
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			and sitting back listening to these Malcolm
		
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			X lectures or talking about,
		
00:13:48 --> 00:13:49
			Patrice Lumumba
		
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			and, the Algerian revolution. All of these are
		
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56
			are African Americans. None of them were were,
		
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			of other,
		
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			ethnic backgrounds or racial backgrounds.
		
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			How, how old were you when you traveled
		
00:14:03 --> 00:14:04
			overseas? And,
		
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			you know, who were your guides to
		
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10
			know where to go, like, to go to
		
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			Mali and go to Bamako, Moti, these different
		
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			places? So I was,
		
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17
			the first time that I actually went overseas,
		
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19
			I was actually
		
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			in my,
		
00:14:21 --> 00:14:21
			in my twenties.
		
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			And part of my urge of going to
		
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			Mali was twofold. Firstly,
		
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			I was reading a lot of Afrocentric
		
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			books.
		
00:14:31 --> 00:14:32
			Sheikh Anta
		
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35
			Job it's mispronounced Diap, a Senegalese,
		
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39
			historian and writer who actually was part of
		
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40
			a Tabikatul Muradiah,
		
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43
			the Tabikat Sheikh Ahmedu Bamba Ron Moran,
		
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			which,
		
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			talked about the great Malian Empire
		
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			and Abu Bakr al Thani,
		
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			the very well known Mensa Musa and things
		
00:14:53 --> 00:14:53
			like this. So,
		
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			just to keep it real, part of my
		
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			motivation
		
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00
			of wanting to go to West Africa was
		
00:15:00 --> 00:15:01
			to connect back,
		
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			which I felt that was kind of like
		
00:15:04 --> 00:15:05
			robbed or stolen
		
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09
			from my, from my family of the experience
		
00:15:09 --> 00:15:10
			of enslavement here.
		
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			And,
		
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			that's 1. And then also,
		
00:15:16 --> 00:15:17
			of a,
		
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18
			a Malian,
		
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			contact,
		
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			brother, Mamadou,
		
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25
			who actually is, friends with my father,
		
00:15:26 --> 00:15:27
			who, has,
		
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			connections. And, he actually is a Malian, but
		
00:15:31 --> 00:15:32
			he had
		
00:15:32 --> 00:15:33
			a connection to,
		
00:15:34 --> 00:15:35
			Bamako as well as,
		
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39
			Mopdi. So that was kind of my my
		
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			modeling connection.
		
00:15:41 --> 00:15:42
			How how was it? Because, like, when you
		
00:15:42 --> 00:15:46
			go from there, there are things that are
		
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48
			cool. There are things that are disappointing. There
		
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50
			are things that are confusing.
		
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			Like, how how did you negotiate that, you
		
00:15:53 --> 00:15:54
			know, like, at at that age?
		
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00
			Well, let me say this is in general
		
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03
			to anyone who's like, I'm a student of
		
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			knowledge or you're going and sitting with my
		
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09
			shayef like it's it's not romantic. Like don't
		
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12
			think you're gonna go somewhere and you're gonna
		
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13
			be sitting in this mesh
		
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15
			list. And then people gonna be walking around
		
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			with the,
		
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			and you're gonna sit with this big shake
		
00:16:19 --> 00:16:19
			and
		
00:16:20 --> 00:16:21
			everything is just gonna be,
		
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			what you think is illuminated. Right. The reality
		
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26
			of it is is that,
		
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			you're gonna get eaten up by mosquitoes. And
		
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			the mosquitoes in West Africa aren't like these
		
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			little cute mosquitoes in America. These are, like,
		
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			these these are real ones. For instance, I
		
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38
			like, for instance, they have a mosquito nets,
		
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41
			and I made the mistake of,
		
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44
			not using mosquito net. And there was this,
		
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48
			stuff that Avon has. It's called skin so
		
00:16:48 --> 00:16:49
			soft that it's supposed to help keep off
		
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51
			the mosquitoes. So I sprayed it on myself,
		
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54
			but I didn't spray my my feet. So
		
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			I woke up and these
		
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			mollian mosquitoes ate me up so much that
		
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			my feet swole to the point that I
		
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			could not wear shoes. Wow. Right? So, like,
		
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07
			even to have, like, these sandals I have
		
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09
			on now, like, my feet were swollen. It's
		
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			like I'm walking around barefoot
		
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13
			because my feet are just swollen for about
		
00:17:13 --> 00:17:13
			a
		
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			week just from the the the mosquitoes.
		
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19
			Right? So so that's just one,
		
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20
			aspect. But,
		
00:17:22 --> 00:17:23
			the, the beauty,
		
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27
			of the people there and the, the humanity.
		
00:17:27 --> 00:17:28
			Right? It's like,
		
00:17:31 --> 00:17:31
			traveling
		
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35
			there, I can honestly say it's the first
		
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			time I ever felt free. I do. What
		
00:17:38 --> 00:17:38
			does that mean?
		
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41
			It's hard for me to articulate, but just
		
00:17:41 --> 00:17:42
			saying, like, as a,
		
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			as an African American
		
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			growing up here, I always felt like I
		
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			have to, like, walk on eggshells
		
00:17:51 --> 00:17:52
			because of either the police
		
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			or
		
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55
			self policing
		
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			behavior
		
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			to not seem as a threat to white
		
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			people, just to keep it real with you.
		
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			Because
		
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			I was given that talk and growing up
		
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07
			in in Central Virginia,
		
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09
			don't drive
		
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10
			in these areas
		
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			after dark.
		
00:18:13 --> 00:18:14
			Don't drive there.
		
00:18:16 --> 00:18:17
			That's 1.
		
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19
			Never ever look at a white girl or
		
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			a white woman. Never do that because that
		
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			could cost you imprisonment or cost your life.
		
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			Like, I was just talking about things or
		
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			even the thing about Michelle and I were
		
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			told not to look at women in general.
		
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30
			Like, so.
		
00:18:31 --> 00:18:32
			Very different reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Except for
		
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34
			your wife. Right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.
		
00:18:35 --> 00:18:36
			If she's white, that's okay.
		
00:18:37 --> 00:18:38
			But, like, in general.
		
00:18:38 --> 00:18:39
			Right.
		
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41
			So
		
00:18:42 --> 00:18:43
			just the
		
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45
			the the the the pressure
		
00:18:45 --> 00:18:47
			of being black here in America.
		
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49
			And then,
		
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53
			like, being Muslim, that's just another
		
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54
			way of, like,
		
00:18:55 --> 00:18:56
			being further marginalized
		
00:18:56 --> 00:18:57
			of, like,
		
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00
			it seemed as suspect by the dominant culture.
		
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03
			So that that honestly, like, had
		
00:19:03 --> 00:19:04
			I can admit it, like, had
		
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07
			a toll on me as a, as a,
		
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08
			as a younger person.
		
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10
			So when I went
		
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13
			to Africa, it's like it's the first
		
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16
			time I felt free. Like, I didn't have
		
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18
			to worry about the police. I had to
		
00:19:18 --> 00:19:19
			worry about people
		
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21
			looking at me as a threat or because
		
00:19:21 --> 00:19:22
			of my skin color.
		
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27
			Then it's also the other spiritual reasons. Hearing
		
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29
			the event 5 times a day is something
		
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30
			that's very
		
00:19:31 --> 00:19:31
			healing,
		
00:19:32 --> 00:19:33
			just to hear,
		
00:19:34 --> 00:19:35
			the event,
		
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38
			5 times a day. And especially
		
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41
			in the cadence of those who are West
		
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43
			African and calling it according to the Maliki
		
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45
			Medheb where it's not like a song, but
		
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47
			it's like it's like a call. Mhmm. And
		
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50
			and it's like it's it's like almost feeling
		
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51
			like hearing
		
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53
			the depths of the souls of the
		
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55
			then.
		
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58
			It's it's it's it's hard for me it's
		
00:19:58 --> 00:19:59
			hard for me to kind of, like,
		
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01
			to to articulate
		
00:20:01 --> 00:20:01
			the,
		
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04
			the feelings. Even when I got off the
		
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06
			airplane, I was met by a brother,
		
00:20:06 --> 00:20:07
			Yobi, from the,
		
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10
			Muslim from the, from the Dogan tribe. So
		
00:20:10 --> 00:20:11
			there's different,
		
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14
			tribes there. You have the the, the Fulani,
		
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17
			of course. You have, Bambora, which is has
		
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19
			a connection to the Manginka tribe.
		
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22
			You have Dogan tribe, the Bozo tribe, the
		
00:20:22 --> 00:20:23
			Bobo tribe.
		
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26
			Each tribe and villages are known for their
		
00:20:26 --> 00:20:27
			specialty, the Fulenis or the herders.
		
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30
			Then you have some of them like the
		
00:20:30 --> 00:20:31
			Bozo or the fisher fishermen.
		
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34
			And they do a lot of bartering and
		
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36
			training to this day. Many people even deal
		
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38
			with money in the areas close to Burkina
		
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41
			Faisal in these areas. But when I got
		
00:20:41 --> 00:20:41
			off the plane,
		
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44
			it was brother Yobe and another brother. I
		
00:20:44 --> 00:20:45
			forget his name.
		
00:20:47 --> 00:20:48
			But, they
		
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50
			said, welcome home.
		
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54
			And gave me, like, a hug, and I
		
00:20:54 --> 00:20:54
			remember just
		
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56
			crying.
		
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59
			He's walking home walking home.
		
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01
			Never been there in my life. Walking home.
		
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03
			Right. You're in your element.
		
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06
			Yeah. Did you did you feel at home
		
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08
			or after that, were you like, man, these
		
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10
			mosquitoes don't eat my feet. I'm from Detroit.
		
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13
			You know? Well, the the the mosquitoes,
		
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16
			were just a a slight inconvenience, which I
		
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17
			was able to navigate that. But, no, I
		
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18
			felt totally,
		
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21
			at home. And I've and I felt the
		
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22
			same way
		
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25
			later on when, in traveling to Senegal. Like,
		
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28
			and there was something that was
		
00:21:28 --> 00:21:29
			different
		
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32
			yet something very familiar. And even many African
		
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35
			Americans there's 2 things many African Americans have
		
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37
			been duped about. But one is that when
		
00:21:37 --> 00:21:38
			you go to West Africa, you literally can
		
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40
			see some of our our,
		
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44
			our expressions that we have as African Americans
		
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48
			mirror West Africans. So, like, the enslavement of
		
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50
			the white man didn't rob us of everything.
		
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52
			Right? That's one thing that people we maybe
		
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54
			were taken away from our language and languages
		
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57
			in our deen, Islam, but we weren't stripped
		
00:21:57 --> 00:21:58
			of everything. This is number 1. Number 2
		
00:21:58 --> 00:21:59
			is also
		
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02
			the the call and response culture that we
		
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04
			have amongst African Americans. Yeah.
		
00:22:05 --> 00:22:06
			So, like, when you're
		
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09
			at a at a Darce or, like, for
		
00:22:09 --> 00:22:10
			instance of,
		
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12
			let's say,
		
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13
			Sharif,
		
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14
			Usman,
		
00:22:14 --> 00:22:15
			Haidara,
		
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18
			and you'll see him speaking, and he'll, like,
		
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22
			say some of his his his paws. He'll
		
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24
			he'll say some of his lecture, and then
		
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25
			there'll be a hype man, kinda
		
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34
			Yeah. Nam. Nam. And, like, it's like so,
		
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36
			like, everything. He'll do a sentence and then
		
00:22:36 --> 00:22:36
			the guy,
		
00:22:39 --> 00:22:40
			or, like and so it's it's it's it's
		
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43
			hard explain, but it it it it's it's
		
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45
			similar to, like, what we have, like, in,
		
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49
			African American music culture, even in the black
		
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52
			church, where the preacher is talking and the
		
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54
			people in the in the in the front.
		
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56
			Like, can I get an amen? Amen. And,
		
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58
			like like like, that that is so African.
		
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00
			Come on. Right? It's so African. It's funny.
		
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02
			Like, I I actually I actually felt the
		
00:23:02 --> 00:23:03
			same way. Like, more Italian, like, you shake
		
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05
			hand. You go to shake, like, the big
		
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07
			item of the tribe, and you shake hands
		
00:23:07 --> 00:23:08
			like this. Like, shake hands. And then he'll
		
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10
			go like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you'll
		
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11
			be and you'll be like, wow. Like,
		
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14
			did that just happen? Or, like, you know,
		
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16
			someone will be like, like, do you think
		
00:23:16 --> 00:23:17
			you're suited to Dodge?
		
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19
			Right? Yeah. And then but it's like it's
		
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21
			like, wow. That's the same like, you're like,
		
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23
			like, you're like
		
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25
			you know? But even that same here, we
		
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27
			call it DAP. Yeah. So here, we call
		
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29
			it DAP, but they in in West Africa,
		
00:23:30 --> 00:23:30
			dap,
		
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33
			dap is African.
		
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36
			Like, is the like, people think it's African
		
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37
			American stuff. I mean, they saw it in
		
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39
			a rap video if you're not black, but
		
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42
			dap is is West African. Straight up. It's
		
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44
			straight up West African. Gotcha.
		
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46
			It's it's straight Mandinka. I have a question
		
00:23:46 --> 00:23:47
			about what you said, you know, you felt
		
00:23:47 --> 00:23:48
			free.
		
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49
			Yeah.
		
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51
			Did part of that
		
00:23:52 --> 00:23:53
			feeling of freedom
		
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55
			also come from the fact that you didn't
		
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58
			have to, like, uphold a certain standard
		
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00
			that we hold to ourselves as black people
		
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03
			in America. You know, like, like, I've mentioned
		
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05
			this once before in the podcast, like, you
		
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06
			know, the whole black card thing. You know,
		
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09
			like, we have that. Mhmm. We feel like
		
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11
			we have to be a certain way even
		
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14
			amongst ourselves. Yeah. Did you feel free in
		
00:24:14 --> 00:24:14
			the
		
00:24:15 --> 00:24:16
			sense that you didn't have to
		
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18
			like, all of that was just like you
		
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20
			could just let that go. It was all
		
00:24:20 --> 00:24:21
			gone. Like, what you're talking about, that was
		
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23
			that was all gone. Wow. And another thing
		
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25
			that you're mentioning too is that one of
		
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28
			the lies that we've been told is that
		
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31
			our people in West Africa
		
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34
			don't want us there. Mhmm. Always returning. Like,
		
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36
			this is something that's like this divide and
		
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38
			conquer thing. And likewise,
		
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41
			many Africans before they come here, they're told
		
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44
			negative things about us or stay away from
		
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45
			us. But
		
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48
			when I went there, I and I've gone
		
00:24:48 --> 00:24:49
			to West Africa,
		
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52
			multiple times, starting from my first time,
		
00:24:53 --> 00:24:54
			in in going for those
		
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57
			those 2 years in Mali. But,
		
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00
			being in Senegal, being in Ghana, I never
		
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02
			felt that vibe,
		
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04
			not a single time That's right. Where where
		
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06
			I was, where I didn't feel welcome. I
		
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08
			felt the welcome home,
		
00:25:09 --> 00:25:09
			vibe,
		
00:25:10 --> 00:25:11
			every time irrespective
		
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14
			of tribe. Hausa tribe,
		
00:25:15 --> 00:25:15
			tribe,
		
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17
			the Gomba tribe.
		
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20
			Oh, I I never felt like I was
		
00:25:20 --> 00:25:20
			a,
		
00:25:21 --> 00:25:22
			an an an outcast.
		
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24
			So I just have to to to say
		
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27
			that, and and everyone, who's Muslim, be you
		
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30
			black or not, I I suggest taking a
		
00:25:30 --> 00:25:31
			trip to West Africa
		
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34
			when COVID 19 looks good. There's something very,
		
00:25:35 --> 00:25:35
			special,
		
00:25:36 --> 00:25:37
			about
		
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40
			the people there and the practice of Islam,
		
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43
			the the level of humility and, like, not
		
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45
			like the the fake airs of fake religiosity.
		
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48
			Right. You can experience something a little different.
		
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52
			And the people there are very friendly. And,
		
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54
			I will say though, if you're going to
		
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55
			Ghana or Nigeria,
		
00:25:56 --> 00:25:56
			there is a level
		
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59
			of truth of the stereotypes
		
00:25:59 --> 00:25:59
			about
		
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02
			the issues of maybe someone trying to hit
		
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05
			you up for a, for a gift. Mhmm.
		
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07
			Being a bribe. Right? So,
		
00:26:08 --> 00:26:09
			I've,
		
00:26:09 --> 00:26:10
			I've I've I've faced that,
		
00:26:12 --> 00:26:13
			my first time in a crock.
		
00:26:16 --> 00:26:16
			Within
		
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20
			within the first two hours, I we were
		
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22
			approached for,
		
00:26:24 --> 00:26:24
			from
		
00:26:25 --> 00:26:25
			security,
		
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29
			agents, agents, police 3 different times asking for
		
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30
			for bribes. So
		
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32
			that that that, unfortunately,
		
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35
			that's that's not how it is in
		
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38
			Senegal or Gambia or or Mali, but the
		
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39
			issue of,
		
00:26:41 --> 00:26:42
			especially when they see that that that blue
		
00:26:42 --> 00:26:43
			American passport,
		
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46
			Mhmm. That that is a reality. There is
		
00:26:46 --> 00:26:46
			some,
		
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48
			corruption
		
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50
			as far as bribes. But then again, the
		
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53
			first time I was in Cairo, similar thing
		
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55
			going through security, I was asked for the
		
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57
			you know, we were asked to I was
		
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59
			with and Hamid down in Atlanta, and I
		
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01
			remember this. This was maybe in
		
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02
			about 2004.
		
00:27:04 --> 00:27:05
			And the guy,
		
00:27:05 --> 00:27:06
			saw our American
		
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08
			passports in the group because that was the
		
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10
			first time I made Hajjos with him. And
		
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11
			he's like,
		
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14
			the hush bros? Hajj bros. Yeah. He said,
		
00:27:14 --> 00:27:15
			ah, he said, I'm Ricky.
		
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22
			Yeah. I was talking to somebody. I'm gonna
		
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24
			take permission to just, like, dissolve it. See,
		
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26
			we're like yeah. We're like so a translation,
		
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29
			the guy said, oh, you're Americans. Where's my
		
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31
			gift from America? So we're like,
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:32
			Subhanallah.
		
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34
			As the guy was like, he didn't care
		
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36
			about whether we were going, like, we were
		
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37
			going on pilgrimage.
		
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39
			So he he wanted that,
		
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42
			he wanted he wanted a ben he wanted
		
00:27:42 --> 00:27:42
			a Benjamin.
		
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44
			So, unfortunately,
		
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47
			he he had end up we didn't get
		
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49
			through without giving a guy a $100 bill.
		
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53
			So that's may Allah help us. I'm Because,
		
00:27:53 --> 00:27:53
			unfortunately,
		
00:27:54 --> 00:27:54
			the,
		
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57
			we have these issues,
		
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00
			in in some places amongst some people.
		
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02
			I'd like to be to be fair, like,
		
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05
			those people also suffer crippling poverty and, like,
		
00:28:05 --> 00:28:06
			buckle under a system that's
		
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09
			it's been suggested as, like,
		
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12
			not very not very fair. You have, like,
		
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14
			people you know, it's it's one thing, like,
		
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16
			you have people who have
		
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18
			degrees and studied, did everything right in life,
		
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20
			but still never can get a job, still
		
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22
			making up money to get married or whatever.
		
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24
			Desperation leads to whatever. It's still wrong. It
		
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26
			doesn't justify it, but Allah have like you
		
00:28:26 --> 00:28:28
			said, Allah have mercy on,
		
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30
			on this one. Yeah. I mean And, make
		
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32
			a way out for those people who are
		
00:28:32 --> 00:28:33
			still trying. I mean, yeah.
		
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36
			Another thing I wanted to ask too is,
		
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38
			like, so you talked about some behavioral things
		
00:28:38 --> 00:28:39
			that you noticed that
		
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44
			were similar or, like, that still persists in
		
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45
			African American culture.
		
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47
			Was there any
		
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49
			other things that stood out? Like, I always
		
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52
			wonder about foods, like, you know, if there
		
00:28:52 --> 00:28:53
			are any things
		
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57
			that African Americans typically, like, eat in our
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:57
			cuisine that are similar to any traditional African
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:57
			foods. Did you notice anything like that? Yeah.
		
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58
			I mean, I think
		
00:29:08 --> 00:29:08
			Not
		
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11
			not as much as the food. Okay. Not
		
00:29:11 --> 00:29:12
			as much as the food. I I sort
		
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14
			of Although I would say to ask. Although
		
00:29:14 --> 00:29:15
			there's a very popular drink,
		
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19
			it's known as, in West Africa, it's called
		
00:29:19 --> 00:29:19
			a bessap.
		
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22
			And I call it African Kool Aid. Basically,
		
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24
			it's it's it's like hibiscus.
		
00:29:24 --> 00:29:25
			Hibiscus?
		
00:29:25 --> 00:29:26
			Yeah. And
		
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28
			they they they call it in in Sudan.
		
00:29:29 --> 00:29:30
			In Egypt, they call it.
		
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32
			Yeah. Yeah. But That's the stuff. But it's
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34
			it's in in West Africa it's called Bissau.
		
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37
			So it's like I call it organic Kool
		
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39
			Aid. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's it's it's
		
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42
			African Kool Aid. So it's the hibiscus leaves.
		
00:29:42 --> 00:29:43
			What they do, they they heat up the
		
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45
			water. I make it.
		
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47
			They they they heat up the water,
		
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50
			not to a high boil, then they put
		
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52
			in the leaves and let the leaves, like,
		
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55
			soak for for a few minutes,
		
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58
			to get the, the hibiscus essence out. Then
		
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59
			you throw in a lot of sugar
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:01
			and stir it up.
		
00:30:02 --> 00:30:02
			And
		
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05
			it it's just like like the the mixed
		
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06
			Kool Aid. We like the cherry and the
		
00:30:06 --> 00:30:07
			grape. You know what I mean? But back
		
00:30:07 --> 00:30:08
			in the day, when you go to the
		
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10
			corner store, get the the cherry and the
		
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12
			grape when you mix it up. So that
		
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14
			was one of the things we had the,
		
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16
			Tristan, man. Basically, what he's saying is Roscoe's
		
00:30:16 --> 00:30:19
			chicken and waffles, that's a that's an American
		
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21
			bid up. That's not from Maddie. That's not
		
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22
			No. No. No. You're not you're not gonna
		
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25
			find chicken and waffles over there. Yeah. What
		
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27
			you will find from the,
		
00:30:29 --> 00:30:29
			the
		
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32
			the lot of Lebanese people
		
00:30:32 --> 00:30:33
			who have migrated,
		
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36
			to West Africa. So you can find, like,
		
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39
			a chicken sandwich. Mhmm. But you're not gonna
		
00:30:39 --> 00:30:40
			find, like, any,
		
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43
			fried chicken and and waffles unless you go
		
00:30:43 --> 00:30:43
			to
		
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46
			the fried chicken joint. Like, if you go,
		
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48
			like, like, in the in the other cities,
		
00:30:50 --> 00:30:53
			so, like, if you're, like, in Tuba
		
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54
			or in,
		
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58
			to Raleigh into Tuba? No. No. In in
		
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00
			the car, you will. Okay. But, like, you
		
00:31:00 --> 00:31:01
			won't find a fried chicken place. You're not
		
00:31:01 --> 00:31:04
			gonna find, like, a KFC or anything, like,
		
00:31:04 --> 00:31:04
			in,
		
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07
			in in Tuba or in, Medina Bay in
		
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10
			Calek or, like, in Tihuahua. And you're not
		
00:31:10 --> 00:31:11
			gonna find it there. But, like, in Dakar
		
00:31:12 --> 00:31:13
			Yeah. Car Yeah. You can find, like, a
		
00:31:13 --> 00:31:14
			fried chicken Okay.
		
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17
			Spot or, like, a hamburger spot, but that's
		
00:31:17 --> 00:31:18
			not really
		
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21
			feel like if you're in Morocco. I mean,
		
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23
			you can find, like, a McDonald's, but, like,
		
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25
			why would you even wanna waste your time
		
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28
			Right. When you're in Fez eating, like, at
		
00:31:28 --> 00:31:29
			the Golden Arches with a,
		
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32
			with the green. It's actually it's it's it's
		
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33
			actually somewhat,
		
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36
			with cheese. Yeah. It it it it it's
		
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38
			actually it's actually a Morocco in my evidence.
		
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40
			Actually, I was offended when I saw McDonald's
		
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42
			in Feds. No. I'll tell you why. Because
		
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45
			there's something about the the the muggerbee architecture
		
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46
			that were
		
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50
			if you see a building that has a
		
00:31:50 --> 00:31:51
			roof that's green,
		
00:31:52 --> 00:31:52
			normally,
		
00:31:52 --> 00:31:53
			there is
		
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56
			someone that's buried there who's a descendant of
		
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57
			Hasnib and Ali. So
		
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59
			Khosodashurafa
		
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02
			in the in the in the buildings like
		
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05
			Malaya, Dris or Sidi Abdul Aziz Dag, you'll
		
00:32:05 --> 00:32:05
			see
		
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09
			green roofs, whereas the other ones, they're normally
		
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10
			like that brownish
		
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13
			type of color. So, like, I'm like, what
		
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15
			is it? This, like, McDonald's Sharif? Like, what
		
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17
			is this? Right? Like, because it was it
		
00:32:17 --> 00:32:18
			was green. So, you know, the first thing
		
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19
			I thought about this is it this had
		
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21
			nothing to do with. Right? Like, I'm thinking
		
00:32:21 --> 00:32:22
			about, like, what the world is this? This
		
00:32:22 --> 00:32:23
			is not a love. This is a Adele
		
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24
			Madison. Yeah. This is
		
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28
			This is straight up, like like, what type
		
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31
			of, like like, innovation is this? Like, literally.
		
00:32:32 --> 00:32:32
			So
		
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35
			Oh, stuff will last. Of time to love.
		
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37
			But, Marsha, I'm gonna I'm gonna maybe cut
		
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40
			cut and interject just to indulge myself. Masha'a,
		
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42
			I had some brothers who studied with me
		
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43
			in Mauritania.
		
00:32:44 --> 00:32:44
			Yeah.
		
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48
			Mahmoudi from Mali. Yeah. Also, he's a Bambara
		
00:32:48 --> 00:32:49
			speaking brother.
		
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52
			And, he's right now, he runs an orphanage
		
00:32:52 --> 00:32:54
			in a Quran school in Sarukunda in in
		
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56
			in Gambia. Mhmm. So, Michelle, you're mentioning your
		
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58
			teacher. I wanted to mention, so please make
		
00:32:58 --> 00:32:59
			Dua for him. It's a big undertaking. Actually,
		
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01
			there's another brother who studied with us, Kimo,
		
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03
			from who is from Gambia
		
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05
			who used to who used to help run
		
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06
			it with him, and he,
		
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09
			Allah taught him very early unexpectedly at a
		
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10
			young age. Allah
		
00:33:10 --> 00:33:11
			elevate his rank. Both of them by the
		
00:33:11 --> 00:33:13
			way, all of the American students who in
		
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15
			the English England and
		
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18
			English speaking students who studied in Mauritania, they
		
00:33:18 --> 00:33:19
			made a lot a lot of
		
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21
			for us as well.
		
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23
			And if anyone wants to help out their
		
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25
			orphanage or whatever, you can just, like, reach
		
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27
			out to the podcast and, read or reach
		
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28
			out to me or or whatever. But,
		
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32
			really beautiful brothers, so I can sum up
		
00:33:32 --> 00:33:33
			really a little bit.
		
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36
			Shay, how did you then make the transition?
		
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38
			Because I know, like, for me personally
		
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41
			and, you know, there's a a an ascent
		
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43
			that you're studying and you're
		
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45
			getting freed and the shackles are coming off
		
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47
			and you're learning and you're immersing yourself in
		
00:33:47 --> 00:33:47
			this world.
		
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50
			And then there's, like, the crash back into,
		
00:33:50 --> 00:33:50
			like,
		
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53
			back into the dunya where like, oh,
		
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56
			okay. Change it back on. But now we
		
00:33:56 --> 00:33:57
			know too much. We can't, like, live the
		
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59
			way we did before, and we have to
		
00:33:59 --> 00:34:00
			interact with
		
00:34:01 --> 00:34:03
			forget about America not being a predominantly Muslim
		
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05
			society. We have to interact with the reality
		
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07
			of a depressing reality of a Muslim community
		
00:34:07 --> 00:34:08
			that doesn't really care about Islam as much
		
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10
			as recognize it. You know, like, how was
		
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14
			that reentry for you? Did you navigate it
		
00:34:14 --> 00:34:15
			easier than I did? Or
		
00:34:16 --> 00:34:17
			I don't know if it was easy for
		
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20
			I would say easy, but And on top
		
00:34:20 --> 00:34:21
			of that, the fact that, you know, we
		
00:34:21 --> 00:34:22
			talk about as Muslims
		
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25
			trying to, like, live in a society that
		
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26
			is predominantly
		
00:34:26 --> 00:34:29
			Muslim without interfaith. You come from the interfaith
		
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31
			family. Yeah. Right? So
		
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33
			all those dynamics. Yeah.
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37
			Well, I think that there's a couple of
		
00:34:37 --> 00:34:38
			things that,
		
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42
			perhaps help to aid me or assist me.
		
00:34:42 --> 00:34:44
			Number 1, I came back and I had
		
00:34:45 --> 00:34:45
			a fabulous,
		
00:34:46 --> 00:34:47
			mentor,
		
00:34:47 --> 00:34:49
			Imam Salim Abdulrahman,
		
00:34:53 --> 00:34:54
			who I
		
00:34:54 --> 00:34:56
			came to. I knew one thing. I I
		
00:34:56 --> 00:34:59
			knew that I need a more rugby. Like,
		
00:34:59 --> 00:35:00
			I I knew that as part of our
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01
			tradition anyway. So,
		
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04
			you know explain this concept? Okay.
		
00:35:04 --> 00:35:05
			So a Morabi,
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08
			basically, we say let's just say spiritual mentor.
		
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10
			So I had a spiritual mentor that was
		
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12
			helping to raise me up and basically check
		
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13
			me. Right?
		
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15
			When I was in my
		
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17
			I was in my mid twenties.
		
00:35:17 --> 00:35:18
			And
		
00:35:19 --> 00:35:20
			he helped me out,
		
00:35:20 --> 00:35:21
			significantly.
		
00:35:22 --> 00:35:23
			And when he saw me being,
		
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26
			with the shut the door, being, like, extreme
		
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28
			in certain things, he would kinda, like, rope
		
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29
			me in and talk to
		
00:35:29 --> 00:35:30
			me.
		
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31
			And then also
		
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34
			what helped too is,
		
00:35:35 --> 00:35:36
			I would say
		
00:35:37 --> 00:35:38
			my connection
		
00:35:39 --> 00:35:39
			to
		
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42
			And I just have to keep it real,
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45
			for you all is that the influence of
		
00:35:45 --> 00:35:46
			how
		
00:35:47 --> 00:35:48
			I learned
		
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51
			this dean and the influences that were on
		
00:35:51 --> 00:35:52
			me. So,
		
00:35:55 --> 00:35:57
			I never gotten to like that,
		
00:35:59 --> 00:36:00
			pseudo Salafi
		
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04
			cancel culture, or I wasn't gonna, like,
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:07
			you know, I had no interest
		
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09
			on coming back declaring everyone else
		
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12
			that was practicing I mean
		
00:36:12 --> 00:36:17
			so if anything, I want to be close
		
00:36:17 --> 00:36:20
			to them and be kind, I mean,
		
00:36:21 --> 00:36:22
			so if anything, I want to be close
		
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24
			to them and be kind to try to
		
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26
			show them that this dean has done something
		
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28
			for me, and perhaps it could help, you
		
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30
			know, you too if you, like, learn about
		
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32
			and accept it. Right? So that was never
		
00:36:33 --> 00:36:34
			that was never my position
		
00:36:35 --> 00:36:35
			to, like,
		
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38
			completely, like, cut myself off.
		
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40
			I I I do know some people
		
00:36:41 --> 00:36:41
			that
		
00:36:42 --> 00:36:43
			went other places
		
00:36:43 --> 00:36:44
			and
		
00:36:44 --> 00:36:47
			and went to extremes. And I'll and without
		
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48
			mentioning his name, I'll give you the
		
00:36:49 --> 00:36:52
			I was mentioned there's a there's a, an
		
00:36:52 --> 00:36:55
			imam in this area who's African American, who's
		
00:36:55 --> 00:36:56
			older than I am.
		
00:36:57 --> 00:36:59
			He went to Umakoraha
		
00:36:59 --> 00:37:00
			University
		
00:37:01 --> 00:37:02
			in in Mecca,
		
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04
			and
		
00:37:05 --> 00:37:07
			his his brother also went and studied too.
		
00:37:07 --> 00:37:08
			And
		
00:37:10 --> 00:37:11
			when he
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:13
			came back, he came very,
		
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16
			strict saying that everyone else was
		
00:37:17 --> 00:37:18
			astray.
		
00:37:18 --> 00:37:19
			In in a chutba
		
00:37:21 --> 00:37:21
			and
		
00:37:22 --> 00:37:23
			I know 2 people,
		
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26
			who are witnesses. 1 African American brother who
		
00:37:26 --> 00:37:27
			left his jamaah, another,
		
00:37:28 --> 00:37:29
			elder brother,
		
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32
			Abdul Hamid Vayd. May Allah
		
00:37:32 --> 00:37:33
			protect him.
		
00:37:34 --> 00:37:37
			Immigrant from Pakistan told me that they were
		
00:37:37 --> 00:37:39
			in the Khutba. He talked about in the
		
00:37:39 --> 00:37:40
			Khutba, how his mother
		
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43
			never accepted Islam. And he was giving,
		
00:37:45 --> 00:37:47
			he was trying to get his mother to
		
00:37:47 --> 00:37:49
			accept Islam on her deathbed.
		
00:37:51 --> 00:37:53
			Similar is like what we have narrated about
		
00:37:53 --> 00:37:53
			the prophet,
		
00:37:55 --> 00:37:56
			for instance. Right? So
		
00:37:58 --> 00:38:01
			he said that she died and accept Islam.
		
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02
			And he said, my mother
		
00:38:03 --> 00:38:04
			died at kaffirah, and
		
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08
			may Allah have her burn in the.
		
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10
			And,
		
00:38:14 --> 00:38:15
			You know?
		
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17
			So what I'm saying is I know
		
00:38:18 --> 00:38:20
			of people personally who,
		
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23
			went on a search for knowledge
		
00:38:23 --> 00:38:24
			and
		
00:38:25 --> 00:38:26
			where it took them
		
00:38:27 --> 00:38:28
			it it took them into
		
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32
			something that's supposed to be light but darkness.
		
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33
			And this is why,
		
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37
			we have the the Hadith about
		
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40
			Islam, Iman, Ihsan. Because just
		
00:38:41 --> 00:38:43
			just studying I mean, we have to study,
		
00:38:43 --> 00:38:45
			obviously, but to study and,
		
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49
			fiqh, which
		
00:38:50 --> 00:38:51
			I would say they don't even have San
		
00:38:51 --> 00:38:54
			Joselu to begin with. But and 5th but
		
00:38:54 --> 00:38:55
			or foundations. But
		
00:38:56 --> 00:38:57
			to separate that from,
		
00:38:58 --> 00:39:01
			right, it can lead people into some very,
		
00:39:02 --> 00:39:03
			dark places. So I'm not even using the
		
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05
			word Tesia. I'm saying,
		
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08
			That part of this dean is is is
		
00:39:08 --> 00:39:09
			is. And,
		
00:39:12 --> 00:39:15
			show me someone who's gone abroad to these
		
00:39:15 --> 00:39:15
			places
		
00:39:16 --> 00:39:17
			to study sacred knowledge
		
00:39:18 --> 00:39:22
			and was totally detached from Tisawa for Torika,
		
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23
			and
		
00:39:25 --> 00:39:26
			there's gonna be problems.
		
00:39:26 --> 00:39:28
			There's gonna be problems.
		
00:39:28 --> 00:39:30
			I mean, to be to be sure, right,
		
00:39:32 --> 00:39:34
			such an attitude is not
		
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36
			sanctioned by the deen.
		
00:39:36 --> 00:39:38
			You gave the example of Abu Talib,
		
00:39:38 --> 00:39:41
			the standard position of the alsulun al Jamaha,
		
00:39:41 --> 00:39:42
			which is narrated
		
00:39:43 --> 00:39:44
			by narrated
		
00:39:44 --> 00:39:45
			from the prophet
		
00:39:46 --> 00:39:48
			with Sahih chains many of them and said
		
00:39:48 --> 00:39:50
			didn't accept Islam. But you don't ever hear
		
00:39:50 --> 00:39:51
			the prophet
		
00:39:51 --> 00:39:52
			walking around. I mean, he was good to
		
00:39:52 --> 00:39:54
			him during his lifetime. You do hear the
		
00:39:54 --> 00:39:56
			prophet going around and making duh, and to
		
00:39:56 --> 00:39:58
			be with fire. You know, you don't hear
		
00:39:58 --> 00:40:00
			that. You know, you don't hear, you know,
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:02
			the prophet told people to curse their their
		
00:40:02 --> 00:40:03
			mothers,
		
00:40:08 --> 00:40:09
			Yeah. In fact, the prophet
		
00:40:09 --> 00:40:12
			forbid people to Right. Forbid others from cursing
		
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14
			their fathers after they became Islam because he
		
00:40:14 --> 00:40:15
			says, what's the point of cursing the dead?
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18
			It just harms the living. Yep. You know?
		
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20
			So that's that's really
		
00:40:21 --> 00:40:23
			that's that's really shocking. Like, that someone would
		
00:40:23 --> 00:40:24
			do that about their own mother.
		
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28
			Maybe the brother had a good intention in
		
00:40:28 --> 00:40:29
			the sense that he wanted to make himself
		
00:40:29 --> 00:40:31
			firm on his own aqidah, but, you know,
		
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33
			we can't just, you know, have it our
		
00:40:33 --> 00:40:35
			way. We have to follow the correct
		
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37
			belief, but also follow the the example of
		
00:40:37 --> 00:40:39
			the prophet did not do that. It's a
		
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41
			very human thing to do. It's very. And
		
00:40:42 --> 00:40:43
			as a part of the blessing
		
00:40:44 --> 00:40:46
			that perhaps you have of having Morabi, the
		
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49
			spiritual mentor, to kind of keep you in
		
00:40:49 --> 00:40:51
			check and why that is so vital in
		
00:40:51 --> 00:40:53
			the life of a Muslim Yeah. Especially in
		
00:40:53 --> 00:40:54
			the path of learning.
		
00:40:55 --> 00:40:55
			Because
		
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58
			a little knowledge is actually sometimes worse than
		
00:40:58 --> 00:40:59
			no knowledge.
		
00:40:59 --> 00:41:01
			Once you start learning something,
		
00:41:01 --> 00:41:02
			it's not
		
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04
			if it's not framed in the right way,
		
00:41:04 --> 00:41:05
			then it could be,
		
00:41:06 --> 00:41:08
			it could cause more damage than harm. I
		
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10
			mean, more damage than good. No doubt. And
		
00:41:10 --> 00:41:12
			I and I and I have and I
		
00:41:12 --> 00:41:14
			have one right now. So it's like when
		
00:41:14 --> 00:41:17
			he when he passed away, then I got
		
00:41:17 --> 00:41:19
			a morabbi. And I and I tell people
		
00:41:19 --> 00:41:20
			this that every
		
00:41:20 --> 00:41:22
			and I'm not even saying this. I'm not
		
00:41:22 --> 00:41:23
			even calling myself this, but I said that
		
00:41:23 --> 00:41:25
			every sheikh has a sheikh.
		
00:41:25 --> 00:41:29
			Right? And there's elders, people who taught us,
		
00:41:29 --> 00:41:31
			knowledge and taught us things that we should
		
00:41:31 --> 00:41:33
			go back out of
		
00:41:33 --> 00:41:36
			and and and respect to to to visit
		
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38
			them and also to brush up on our
		
00:41:38 --> 00:41:38
			lessons,
		
00:41:39 --> 00:41:40
			but
		
00:41:40 --> 00:41:41
			also those that help
		
00:41:42 --> 00:41:45
			guide us because the the the ego,
		
00:41:46 --> 00:41:49
			is inclined towards self deception. That's right. Right?
		
00:41:49 --> 00:41:50
			And,
		
00:41:50 --> 00:41:51
			Sheikh Ahmedu Bamba,
		
00:41:52 --> 00:41:55
			may Allah be well pleased with him. And
		
00:41:55 --> 00:41:56
			and and and and the,
		
00:41:57 --> 00:41:59
			he talks about this issue of the of
		
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01
			the of the ego and the
		
00:42:02 --> 00:42:02
			and the most,
		
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06
			dangerous of spiritual diseases as he calls it
		
00:42:06 --> 00:42:06
			is
		
00:42:07 --> 00:42:09
			al kibber, is is arrogance. So,
		
00:42:10 --> 00:42:11
			I always say that,
		
00:42:12 --> 00:42:14
			Nabi Musa, alaihis salaam,
		
00:42:14 --> 00:42:15
			was a prophet,
		
00:42:15 --> 00:42:18
			and he had a a spiritual guy. Right?
		
00:42:18 --> 00:42:20
			And and and he's a prophet. Right? And
		
00:42:20 --> 00:42:22
			we're not getting wahi. Right? So it's like,
		
00:42:22 --> 00:42:23
			who do we think we are?
		
00:42:24 --> 00:42:26
			Because we got a little bit of a
		
00:42:26 --> 00:42:28
			little teeny bit one maybe not even a
		
00:42:28 --> 00:42:29
			drop
		
00:42:30 --> 00:42:32
			worth of ilm in the bottom
		
00:42:32 --> 00:42:35
			of of of a loom. No. Right? We
		
00:42:35 --> 00:42:36
			got maybe a little,
		
00:42:37 --> 00:42:38
			an atom
		
00:42:39 --> 00:42:40
			of of of a drop of water.
		
00:42:41 --> 00:42:43
			And nothing from the ocean.
		
00:42:43 --> 00:42:45
			Water vapor maybe? And and and, yeah, water
		
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47
			vapor. Nothing that what Musa
		
00:42:48 --> 00:42:50
			alaihis salam had, and he had a a
		
00:42:50 --> 00:42:52
			guide. So who do we think that we
		
00:42:52 --> 00:42:53
			are that we don't need,
		
00:42:54 --> 00:42:55
			some mentorship
		
00:42:55 --> 00:42:58
			and and and guides and teachers. It's really
		
00:42:58 --> 00:43:00
			it's it's it's really bizarre,
		
00:43:01 --> 00:43:03
			to for me to even hear people,
		
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06
			say that they don't they don't think that
		
00:43:06 --> 00:43:08
			they need to check-in with anyone or they
		
00:43:08 --> 00:43:09
			don't need any sort of
		
00:43:11 --> 00:43:13
			mentorship. This is really bizarre. I'm gonna use
		
00:43:13 --> 00:43:15
			this as kind of a segue towards something
		
00:43:15 --> 00:43:18
			also very important that you're directly involved in
		
00:43:18 --> 00:43:21
			Mhmm. Which is social activism. Yeah. So especially
		
00:43:21 --> 00:43:23
			someone in your line of work Yeah.
		
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27
			Where you have to represent Muslim stances. And
		
00:43:27 --> 00:43:30
			sometimes those can be uncomfortable. Yeah. And you
		
00:43:30 --> 00:43:31
			have a lot of people who are, you
		
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33
			know, activists, who are well intended,
		
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35
			but you can be well intended and misguided.
		
00:43:36 --> 00:43:36
			So
		
00:43:37 --> 00:43:38
			in that
		
00:43:40 --> 00:43:40
			kind of fervor to do the right thing
		
00:43:40 --> 00:43:43
			and speak, you know, speak the truth,
		
00:43:44 --> 00:43:46
			it's very easy to have some missteps.
		
00:43:47 --> 00:43:50
			Missteps. Yeah. Right? So how then do you
		
00:43:51 --> 00:43:51
			make sure
		
00:43:52 --> 00:43:54
			that you stay within the parameters of our
		
00:44:02 --> 00:44:05
			towards sacred activism. Yes. Right? Which can, you
		
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08
			know, almost seem like a paradox to some.
		
00:44:08 --> 00:44:10
			Because if you're engaged in the world, then
		
00:44:10 --> 00:44:11
			how is that sacred? Right?
		
00:44:12 --> 00:44:13
			That's what Imam Zaid was writing about your
		
00:44:13 --> 00:44:15
			book. I had read his little,
		
00:44:17 --> 00:44:18
			review on it.
		
00:44:18 --> 00:44:19
			And
		
00:44:19 --> 00:44:21
			so that's that's your your line of work.
		
00:44:21 --> 00:44:23
			So how do you kinda reconcile that?
		
00:44:23 --> 00:44:25
			Well, let me say
		
00:44:25 --> 00:44:26
			that
		
00:44:26 --> 00:44:28
			I've made many mistakes over the years,
		
00:44:29 --> 00:44:30
			and I probably will
		
00:44:30 --> 00:44:31
			make more mistakes.
		
00:44:32 --> 00:44:35
			It may allow protect us all. And and,
		
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38
			and as you mentioned too,
		
00:44:39 --> 00:44:40
			my
		
00:44:40 --> 00:44:42
			my late teacher, Imam Saleem,
		
00:44:44 --> 00:44:46
			I remember one day he looked at me.
		
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49
			We were,
		
00:44:50 --> 00:44:51
			in a hadith class,
		
00:44:51 --> 00:44:53
			and he just looked at me and he
		
00:44:53 --> 00:44:53
			said
		
00:44:54 --> 00:44:56
			he put his hand right here. He said,
		
00:44:56 --> 00:44:58
			He said, remember, you can be sincere and
		
00:44:58 --> 00:44:59
			be sincerely wrong.
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02
			You can be sincere and be sincerely wrong.
		
00:45:02 --> 00:45:04
			Like, having good intentions that that is,
		
00:45:05 --> 00:45:07
			a matter of the heart, and that is
		
00:45:07 --> 00:45:10
			the foundation. But just feeling sincere, and he's
		
00:45:10 --> 00:45:11
			like, this dean is not
		
00:45:12 --> 00:45:13
			based upon
		
00:45:14 --> 00:45:17
			feelings alone. This dean is based upon,
		
00:45:18 --> 00:45:18
			and
		
00:45:19 --> 00:45:20
			referring back and, then,
		
00:45:21 --> 00:45:21
			then,
		
00:45:23 --> 00:45:24
			he he mentioned
		
00:45:26 --> 00:45:27
			that the scholars
		
00:45:27 --> 00:45:29
			are the are the heirs, the inheritance of
		
00:45:29 --> 00:45:31
			the prophets. So we need to refer back
		
00:45:31 --> 00:45:33
			to them hadith, the authentic hadith of the
		
00:45:33 --> 00:45:34
			prophet, alaihis salaam.
		
00:45:37 --> 00:45:39
			So that's one thing I just wanted to
		
00:45:39 --> 00:45:41
			clear up. The other thing is that besides,
		
00:45:42 --> 00:45:45
			I think every activist needs a spiritual mentor
		
00:45:45 --> 00:45:48
			and a spiritual guide and someone who is,
		
00:45:50 --> 00:45:50
			not,
		
00:45:51 --> 00:45:52
			so called
		
00:45:52 --> 00:45:54
			in the trenches of the activism world and
		
00:45:55 --> 00:45:57
			activism vibe. Because that's like a whole different
		
00:45:58 --> 00:46:00
			world, really. It's it's a world within the
		
00:46:00 --> 00:46:01
			world.
		
00:46:02 --> 00:46:02
			I
		
00:46:03 --> 00:46:05
			the the advice of,
		
00:46:05 --> 00:46:06
			of Yahya
		
00:46:07 --> 00:46:08
			ibn Mu'al,
		
00:46:08 --> 00:46:09
			Rahmatullah, where
		
00:46:10 --> 00:46:11
			he said that
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:16
			if you cannot bring benefit, then at least
		
00:46:16 --> 00:46:18
			do no harm. And this is something that
		
00:46:18 --> 00:46:20
			I think is very difficult
		
00:46:20 --> 00:46:23
			for people to understand that if you if
		
00:46:23 --> 00:46:25
			you have confusion, like the Hadith, leave what
		
00:46:25 --> 00:46:27
			makes you doubt, but that was doesn't make
		
00:46:27 --> 00:46:30
			you doubt. So when there are gray matters
		
00:46:30 --> 00:46:32
			and if you don't have an answer and
		
00:46:32 --> 00:46:35
			different people that you've made with or had
		
00:46:35 --> 00:46:35
			consultation
		
00:46:36 --> 00:46:37
			with,
		
00:46:37 --> 00:46:40
			regarding issues of people who are of of
		
00:46:40 --> 00:46:41
			of Dean,
		
00:46:43 --> 00:46:45
			that it's okay to sit still and to
		
00:46:45 --> 00:46:47
			figure things out. Like, we don't have to
		
00:46:47 --> 00:46:48
			share everything
		
00:46:48 --> 00:46:51
			or jump on the bandwagon of every campaign,
		
00:46:51 --> 00:46:51
			and that,
		
00:46:53 --> 00:46:55
			Sukhut is the default position. Like, if you
		
00:46:55 --> 00:46:57
			don't know what to do, then just be
		
00:46:57 --> 00:46:58
			quiet.
		
00:46:58 --> 00:47:00
			Right? And I think that and that's probably
		
00:47:00 --> 00:47:02
			the best advice that I can give,
		
00:47:02 --> 00:47:05
			for young people, especially who are thinking about
		
00:47:05 --> 00:47:07
			activism and all the things going on right
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09
			now with the 2020 election or
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:10
			the,
		
00:47:11 --> 00:47:12
			the protests
		
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15
			down the street that if you
		
00:47:18 --> 00:47:20
			are if you're not sure about the issue
		
00:47:20 --> 00:47:23
			or about the means of how to address
		
00:47:23 --> 00:47:24
			the issue, because
		
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27
			for us, the ends don't justify the means.
		
00:47:27 --> 00:47:28
			Mhmm. Right?
		
00:47:30 --> 00:47:31
			It's okay
		
00:47:31 --> 00:47:32
			to
		
00:47:33 --> 00:47:33
			ask
		
00:47:34 --> 00:47:35
			Allah
		
00:47:35 --> 00:47:37
			for Hidayah, which we all should be doing
		
00:47:37 --> 00:47:39
			and to sit still for a moment and
		
00:47:39 --> 00:47:41
			to try to refer to those and get
		
00:47:41 --> 00:47:42
			advice to those
		
00:47:42 --> 00:47:44
			who are in the work,
		
00:47:44 --> 00:47:48
			but also who are coming from a prophetic
		
00:47:48 --> 00:47:49
			lens. And to be frank with you, they're
		
00:47:49 --> 00:47:51
			not really that many people
		
00:47:51 --> 00:47:52
			in our community
		
00:47:52 --> 00:47:53
			in this activism,
		
00:47:54 --> 00:47:56
			situation they're dealing with
		
00:47:56 --> 00:47:57
			the the issues
		
00:47:58 --> 00:48:01
			of social justice or racial justice or
		
00:48:01 --> 00:48:01
			Islamophobia.
		
00:48:03 --> 00:48:05
			There are not too many people that I
		
00:48:05 --> 00:48:07
			actually can point towards to that are operating,
		
00:48:08 --> 00:48:11
			from this from this this this, this this
		
00:48:11 --> 00:48:13
			paradigm. I I could point out some names.
		
00:48:13 --> 00:48:14
			Mhmm. But there's
		
00:48:15 --> 00:48:15
			okay.
		
00:48:16 --> 00:48:18
			My colleague, Hassan Shibley,
		
00:48:18 --> 00:48:20
			down in in in in Florida, CARE is
		
00:48:20 --> 00:48:22
			one of them. My colleague,
		
00:48:23 --> 00:48:24
			Besam
		
00:48:24 --> 00:48:24
			Alcarra,
		
00:48:25 --> 00:48:26
			who's in Sacramento
		
00:48:26 --> 00:48:28
			CARE Sacramento. He's together. We used to go
		
00:48:28 --> 00:48:29
			to MSA West Conferences back in the day.
		
00:48:29 --> 00:48:30
			Masha'allah. He's a beautiful brother.
		
00:48:35 --> 00:48:36
			Doctor Ramin
		
00:48:37 --> 00:48:37
			Nasheibi,
		
00:48:38 --> 00:48:41
			who runs Iman in in in Southside Chicago.
		
00:48:42 --> 00:48:43
			Usteda,
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:44
			Ayesha Prime,
		
00:48:45 --> 00:48:47
			who's actually, she's in she's in West Africa
		
00:48:47 --> 00:48:48
			right now in the Gambia,
		
00:48:48 --> 00:48:52
			but who's in, in in in DMV area.
		
00:48:52 --> 00:48:54
			Like, so there's some people who are involved
		
00:48:54 --> 00:48:54
			in activism
		
00:48:55 --> 00:48:57
			and is not saying like, none of us
		
00:48:57 --> 00:48:59
			are Masoomin. Like, we all make mistakes, and
		
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01
			we all perhaps
		
00:49:01 --> 00:49:03
			maybe said certain things that are questionable. But
		
00:49:03 --> 00:49:05
			I mean, at least, I'm talking about people
		
00:49:05 --> 00:49:07
			at least who have,
		
00:49:07 --> 00:49:08
			Ihtiram
		
00:49:08 --> 00:49:09
			for the tradition,
		
00:49:10 --> 00:49:12
			who have a who have a a a
		
00:49:12 --> 00:49:14
			Morabbi or who have a sheikh and who
		
00:49:14 --> 00:49:15
			and who respect,
		
00:49:17 --> 00:49:17
			the
		
00:49:18 --> 00:49:19
			the the the creed
		
00:49:20 --> 00:49:22
			of Islam or people of the sunnah and
		
00:49:22 --> 00:49:23
			who,
		
00:49:24 --> 00:49:25
			have respect for
		
00:49:25 --> 00:49:29
			for for for spiritual purification and tariqa and
		
00:49:29 --> 00:49:30
			these things. Right? So,
		
00:49:30 --> 00:49:32
			there there's and I'm not saying these are
		
00:49:32 --> 00:49:34
			the only ones, but I'm saying there's some
		
00:49:34 --> 00:49:35
			people I can name. I just want to
		
00:49:35 --> 00:49:37
			name drop a few people. But, again,
		
00:49:38 --> 00:49:40
			I don't really see a a a lot
		
00:49:40 --> 00:49:42
			of people who are,
		
00:49:43 --> 00:49:45
			I I feel very uncomfortable
		
00:49:45 --> 00:49:46
			with,
		
00:49:47 --> 00:49:48
			with certain things that I've seen
		
00:49:49 --> 00:49:51
			from certain activists and especially those
		
00:49:52 --> 00:49:55
			who their organization or platform has been primarily
		
00:49:55 --> 00:49:57
			funded by non Muslims
		
00:49:57 --> 00:49:59
			who've gotten foundation money Right.
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:01
			And and gotten
		
00:50:01 --> 00:50:02
			and gotten,
		
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05
			elevate to certain platforms and certain deals,
		
00:50:06 --> 00:50:07
			because
		
00:50:08 --> 00:50:10
			these people who are who are pushing them
		
00:50:10 --> 00:50:12
			forward and find them,
		
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14
			they
		
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16
			if I can use this term,
		
00:50:18 --> 00:50:20
			and, may Allah preserve, Abdullah
		
00:50:21 --> 00:50:22
			bin Hamid Ali.
		
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25
			I heard him use this term,
		
00:50:25 --> 00:50:25
			empanophobia.
		
00:50:27 --> 00:50:27
			Right? So
		
00:50:28 --> 00:50:31
			you have certain people on the conservative right.
		
00:50:32 --> 00:50:34
			They have what we may call Islamophobia,
		
00:50:34 --> 00:50:36
			meaning that they have a loathing
		
00:50:36 --> 00:50:37
			for
		
00:50:38 --> 00:50:38
			Muslims,
		
00:50:39 --> 00:50:41
			but they view us basically as like a
		
00:50:42 --> 00:50:45
			non white group. Like like some sort of,
		
00:50:45 --> 00:50:45
			like,
		
00:50:46 --> 00:50:49
			5th column non white group outside of what
		
00:50:49 --> 00:50:51
			they would consider to be whiteness and all
		
00:50:51 --> 00:50:52
			of those implications.
		
00:50:53 --> 00:50:55
			Those people don't like Muslims.
		
00:50:55 --> 00:50:57
			I like that. Whereas, ematophobia,
		
00:50:58 --> 00:51:00
			there are people who say they wanna have
		
00:51:00 --> 00:51:01
			so called solidarity
		
00:51:01 --> 00:51:02
			with the Muslims,
		
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05
			but they actually have a loathing
		
00:51:05 --> 00:51:08
			for our actual beliefs. They have a loathing
		
00:51:08 --> 00:51:09
			for our sharia.
		
00:51:09 --> 00:51:12
			Right? So they will fund us and like
		
00:51:12 --> 00:51:14
			us as long as as long as we
		
00:51:15 --> 00:51:17
			get into their so called intersectional
		
00:51:17 --> 00:51:20
			agenda and promote what they want us to
		
00:51:20 --> 00:51:21
			promote, like, promote,
		
00:51:23 --> 00:51:26
			abortion even towards 3rd 3rd term, to promote,
		
00:51:27 --> 00:51:30
			prostitution, which they have tried to relabel as
		
00:51:30 --> 00:51:30
			* work,
		
00:51:31 --> 00:51:32
			to try to
		
00:51:32 --> 00:51:33
			promote the LGBTQ
		
00:51:34 --> 00:51:34
			agenda
		
00:51:35 --> 00:51:35
			and
		
00:51:36 --> 00:51:37
			and and and have them,
		
00:51:38 --> 00:51:41
			stand side by side with with with lesbians
		
00:51:42 --> 00:51:44
			at the women's march. They'll fund that.
		
00:51:45 --> 00:51:46
			They'll celebrate that.
		
00:51:46 --> 00:51:48
			You know, you'll get on TV, and you
		
00:51:48 --> 00:51:50
			maybe get a book deal, all sorts of
		
00:51:50 --> 00:51:52
			things when you do that. Right? But,
		
00:51:53 --> 00:51:53
			but
		
00:51:55 --> 00:51:57
			they're cool with those types of Muslims. But
		
00:51:57 --> 00:51:59
			the actual our actual beliefs,
		
00:51:59 --> 00:52:00
			what's sacred,
		
00:52:01 --> 00:52:03
			they actually see that as
		
00:52:03 --> 00:52:04
			regressive,
		
00:52:04 --> 00:52:05
			not progressive.
		
00:52:12 --> 00:52:13
			From within.
		
00:52:14 --> 00:52:15
			And that's why,
		
00:52:15 --> 00:52:17
			instead of Abdullah, I first heard you something.
		
00:52:17 --> 00:52:18
			They have empanophobia.
		
00:52:19 --> 00:52:20
			So you pick your poison.
		
00:52:21 --> 00:52:23
			Right? And and neither one of these groups
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:25
			are only, we we have to be a
		
00:52:25 --> 00:52:25
			little more,
		
00:52:26 --> 00:52:27
			smart as far as our political,
		
00:52:29 --> 00:52:29
			calculations.
		
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32
			It's interesting here. You just put out a
		
00:52:32 --> 00:52:33
			paper also,
		
00:52:34 --> 00:52:35
			about A very good paper. A very good
		
00:52:35 --> 00:52:37
			paper about how Muslims need to just re
		
00:52:38 --> 00:52:39
			reanalyze
		
00:52:39 --> 00:52:42
			and reassess the political landscape in America and
		
00:52:42 --> 00:52:44
			not to be so simplistic and simple minded.
		
00:52:44 --> 00:52:47
			And I'll be frank with you, you, Sheikh
		
00:52:47 --> 00:52:48
			Abdullah is
		
00:52:49 --> 00:52:52
			a man of controversial tastes and controversial takes.
		
00:52:52 --> 00:52:54
			Yes. Not all of his, like, things that
		
00:52:54 --> 00:52:56
			he says I agree with, but then again,
		
00:52:56 --> 00:52:58
			if you're a person who transacts in the
		
00:52:58 --> 00:53:00
			intellectual and not all of them, I disagree
		
00:53:00 --> 00:53:01
			with,
		
00:53:01 --> 00:53:03
			but, like, you know, a person who transacts
		
00:53:03 --> 00:53:04
			in intellectual currency,
		
00:53:05 --> 00:53:06
			that person should
		
00:53:07 --> 00:53:10
			look at ideas, not personalities. The judgment of
		
00:53:10 --> 00:53:12
			people is in the hands of Allah,
		
00:53:13 --> 00:53:15
			the judgment of ideas. We take what we
		
00:53:15 --> 00:53:17
			like and we leave the rest and we
		
00:53:17 --> 00:53:19
			go back and forth and explore and and
		
00:53:19 --> 00:53:19
			whatnot.
		
00:53:19 --> 00:53:21
			But, like, he does make some very solid
		
00:53:21 --> 00:53:24
			points in regards to this, in regards to
		
00:53:24 --> 00:53:25
			this issue. And,
		
00:53:26 --> 00:53:28
			you know, recently or relatively recently, I I
		
00:53:28 --> 00:53:30
			also myself put out a paper about,
		
00:53:31 --> 00:53:34
			the the difference between the idea that black
		
00:53:34 --> 00:53:36
			lives matter, which is a part of our
		
00:53:36 --> 00:53:37
			deen. You know, if you think that a
		
00:53:37 --> 00:53:39
			black person, a person is any more or
		
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41
			less human because of their color, be it
		
00:53:41 --> 00:53:42
			black, white, or whatever,
		
00:53:43 --> 00:53:45
			you have contravened the book of Allah and
		
00:53:45 --> 00:53:47
			the sun of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa
		
00:53:47 --> 00:53:49
			sallam as a pure philosophical issue, it's Kufr.
		
00:53:50 --> 00:53:52
			If you because you if you especially if
		
00:53:52 --> 00:53:53
			you're aware of the fact that the Allah
		
00:53:53 --> 00:53:56
			and Rasool Allah directly negate this idea.
		
00:53:57 --> 00:53:59
			But, the Black Lives Matter movement,
		
00:54:00 --> 00:54:02
			itself, like the people who run the website
		
00:54:02 --> 00:54:03
			and have the copyright and sell the merch
		
00:54:03 --> 00:54:05
			and all that stuff, they have the foundation
		
00:54:05 --> 00:54:06
			money,
		
00:54:06 --> 00:54:09
			it's really not even an African American movement
		
00:54:09 --> 00:54:11
			at all. It's it's very directly
		
00:54:12 --> 00:54:12
			a LGBTQ
		
00:54:13 --> 00:54:13
			movement.
		
00:54:14 --> 00:54:16
			And I I mean, like, someone might say,
		
00:54:16 --> 00:54:18
			well, you're not you're not African American. You
		
00:54:18 --> 00:54:19
			have no right to speak about this. Well,
		
00:54:19 --> 00:54:21
			okay. We're I'm I'm an American, so I
		
00:54:21 --> 00:54:22
			can shoot my mouth off a little bit.
		
00:54:22 --> 00:54:24
			Right? I if I was a black person,
		
00:54:24 --> 00:54:26
			I would be offended when somebody, like, okay.
		
00:54:26 --> 00:54:28
			I'm not in favor of, like, oh, look.
		
00:54:28 --> 00:54:30
			You're gay, so we should beat you up
		
00:54:30 --> 00:54:31
			in the street and, like, kill you. Right?
		
00:54:31 --> 00:54:32
			That's wrong. You know? You don't have the
		
00:54:32 --> 00:54:34
			right to do that to another human being.
		
00:54:34 --> 00:54:36
			Right? But if someone were to say, oh,
		
00:54:36 --> 00:54:36
			look.
		
00:54:36 --> 00:54:38
			I I, you know, this is my sexual
		
00:54:38 --> 00:54:39
			preference, and that's the color you were born
		
00:54:39 --> 00:54:41
			with, and we're on the same platform. It's
		
00:54:41 --> 00:54:43
			both civil rights issues. I'd be like,
		
00:54:43 --> 00:54:45
			I'd be really offended about that, you know,
		
00:54:45 --> 00:54:45
			and, like Stop. It's it's not the same.
		
00:54:45 --> 00:54:45
			And, unfortunately, I feel like there's, like, this
		
00:54:45 --> 00:54:45
			ride, like, this the issue of, you
		
00:54:46 --> 00:54:47
			know,
		
00:54:48 --> 00:54:49
			the human dignity of African Americans in this
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:49
			country has been put on the back burner
		
00:54:49 --> 00:54:50
			for so long that there are many people,
		
00:54:50 --> 00:54:51
			both in the African American
		
00:54:56 --> 00:54:57
			on the back burner for so long that
		
00:54:57 --> 00:54:59
			there are many people, both in the African
		
00:54:59 --> 00:55:01
			American community and outside of it, now that
		
00:55:01 --> 00:55:02
			there's a well of, like, support,
		
00:55:04 --> 00:55:06
			it gets, like, some people have become almost
		
00:55:06 --> 00:55:08
			drunk on it. Like, they don't they don't
		
00:55:08 --> 00:55:09
			and feel free to, like, completely hack me
		
00:55:09 --> 00:55:11
			down and shoot me. That's why I wanted
		
00:55:11 --> 00:55:12
			that's why I like being on this podcast
		
00:55:12 --> 00:55:14
			because I know that I can run my
		
00:55:14 --> 00:55:16
			ideas about you, and you'll say the hop,
		
00:55:16 --> 00:55:17
			and, like, I'll I'll benefit from it. You
		
00:55:17 --> 00:55:19
			know? Is that, like, I feel like some
		
00:55:19 --> 00:55:21
			of our brothers have become drunk on that
		
00:55:21 --> 00:55:23
			a little bit and have ceased to, like,
		
00:55:24 --> 00:55:26
			hold on to their, hold on to their
		
00:55:26 --> 00:55:27
			their principles
		
00:55:27 --> 00:55:29
			because of the fear that if we hold
		
00:55:29 --> 00:55:31
			on to our principles in this one moment
		
00:55:31 --> 00:55:33
			while we still have the power to strike
		
00:55:33 --> 00:55:35
			and and, like, hit who we wanna hit
		
00:55:35 --> 00:55:36
			and do what we wanna do,
		
00:55:37 --> 00:55:39
			that that we might lose it. And, unfortunately,
		
00:55:39 --> 00:55:41
			those are the moments where you see what
		
00:55:41 --> 00:55:43
			your real principles are at all. So
		
00:55:44 --> 00:55:45
			Exactly. And that's the
		
00:55:46 --> 00:55:48
			that's what fitness is designed for, is to
		
00:55:48 --> 00:55:49
			show you what you're
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:51
			really made of. And I would say to
		
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53
			the brothers and sisters who are watching this,
		
00:55:53 --> 00:55:54
			especially who are African American
		
00:55:55 --> 00:55:56
			or black American, whatever,
		
00:55:57 --> 00:55:59
			nomenclature that you prefer
		
00:55:59 --> 00:56:01
			is that we have to be as Muslims,
		
00:56:01 --> 00:56:02
			we have to be grounded
		
00:56:03 --> 00:56:05
			in our faith and our tradition.
		
00:56:05 --> 00:56:06
			And, ultimately,
		
00:56:07 --> 00:56:08
			Musra, our
		
00:56:10 --> 00:56:11
			help doesn't come from any
		
00:56:12 --> 00:56:15
			when we look at it, we we Yeah.
		
00:56:15 --> 00:56:17
			No. Party. We can't confuse
		
00:56:17 --> 00:56:20
			means with the ultimate cause. The ultimate cause
		
00:56:20 --> 00:56:22
			for success is Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. It's
		
00:56:22 --> 00:56:23
			not
		
00:56:23 --> 00:56:26
			any sort of political party or any sort
		
00:56:26 --> 00:56:28
			of foundation or any,
		
00:56:29 --> 00:56:31
			organization in of itself. So this is the
		
00:56:31 --> 00:56:33
			the the first thing that we have to
		
00:56:33 --> 00:56:35
			get clear. The second thing is
		
00:56:36 --> 00:56:37
			the very definition
		
00:56:39 --> 00:56:41
			of blameworthy tribalism
		
00:56:41 --> 00:56:42
			that the Sahaba
		
00:56:43 --> 00:56:45
			asked the prophet about Alaihi Salam
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:48
			when they asked him, Ma'al Asabiyyah, Amal Asabiyyah
		
00:56:48 --> 00:56:51
			is narrating Sunan Abu Dawood with a Hassan
		
00:56:51 --> 00:56:52
			Ching.
		
00:56:52 --> 00:56:53
			He said,
		
00:56:53 --> 00:56:55
			and to in a Omakalazul.
		
00:56:55 --> 00:56:57
			Right? It's to help your people in wrongdoing.
		
00:56:57 --> 00:56:58
			Right? So
		
00:56:59 --> 00:57:00
			What is Oh,
		
00:57:01 --> 00:57:03
			is a blameworthy tribalism. Right?
		
00:57:03 --> 00:57:04
			So,
		
00:57:05 --> 00:57:07
			so so to to Asib,
		
00:57:08 --> 00:57:10
			or the blameworthy tribalism is to help your
		
00:57:10 --> 00:57:12
			people in wrongdoing. And and
		
00:57:12 --> 00:57:13
			from
		
00:57:13 --> 00:57:16
			a from a shari perspective, the first way
		
00:57:16 --> 00:57:18
			we understand this is when people take things
		
00:57:18 --> 00:57:20
			outside of their proper places.
		
00:57:20 --> 00:57:21
			Right?
		
00:57:21 --> 00:57:24
			So that that Allah intended them to function
		
00:57:24 --> 00:57:25
			it. So,
		
00:57:27 --> 00:57:29
			it's not just supporting people just because they
		
00:57:29 --> 00:57:31
			are black in of itself because this is
		
00:57:31 --> 00:57:33
			the moment, is that
		
00:57:33 --> 00:57:34
			if
		
00:57:35 --> 00:57:37
			and and we all can agree,
		
00:57:37 --> 00:57:38
			that
		
00:57:38 --> 00:57:40
			the issues of systemic
		
00:57:40 --> 00:57:43
			police brutality and mass incarceration, the criminal injustice
		
00:57:43 --> 00:57:46
			system is zoomed. No doubt about it. But
		
00:57:46 --> 00:57:49
			it is very possible for us to be
		
00:57:49 --> 00:57:50
			of a group that's
		
00:57:51 --> 00:57:53
			and be at the same time. I mean,
		
00:57:53 --> 00:57:55
			we we we can be oppressed
		
00:57:56 --> 00:57:58
			and still be involved in wrongdoing at the
		
00:57:58 --> 00:57:59
			same time. And,
		
00:58:01 --> 00:58:03
			we are not sanctioned according to,
		
00:58:03 --> 00:58:06
			the noble deen that's been transmitted by the
		
00:58:06 --> 00:58:07
			noble
		
00:58:07 --> 00:58:10
			companions of the prophet, alayhis salam, and the
		
00:58:10 --> 00:58:12
			tabein, and all of these,
		
00:58:12 --> 00:58:13
			seneid
		
00:58:13 --> 00:58:16
			or chains of transmission that we have, there
		
00:58:16 --> 00:58:17
			is no sanction for us to
		
00:58:18 --> 00:58:18
			openly
		
00:58:19 --> 00:58:20
			promote the munkarat
		
00:58:21 --> 00:58:22
			or those things that are hateful inside of
		
00:58:22 --> 00:58:24
			Allah and His Prophet
		
00:58:25 --> 00:58:27
			and to celebrate it. Right? I mean to
		
00:58:27 --> 00:58:29
			the point that we have,
		
00:58:30 --> 00:58:31
			Muslims
		
00:58:31 --> 00:58:33
			who in the name of of of Black
		
00:58:33 --> 00:58:35
			Lives Matter, even
		
00:58:35 --> 00:58:37
			before will go to parades
		
00:58:37 --> 00:58:40
			and and and and dance,
		
00:58:42 --> 00:58:44
			in in so called pride parades and
		
00:58:45 --> 00:58:46
			and play instruments,
		
00:58:47 --> 00:58:49
			sing songs playing the guitar,
		
00:58:49 --> 00:58:50
			and and and
		
00:58:51 --> 00:58:54
			and it's it's like and it's it's.
		
00:58:55 --> 00:58:55
			Like,
		
00:58:57 --> 00:58:59
			I would never thought
		
00:59:01 --> 00:59:02
			like, if if someone would have asked me
		
00:59:02 --> 00:59:04
			this in 2000,
		
00:59:04 --> 00:59:06
			I would have thought it was a joke.
		
00:59:06 --> 00:59:08
			Like like, that Muslims would be doing this
		
00:59:08 --> 00:59:09
			stuff now. Right? In the name of,
		
00:59:10 --> 00:59:13
			of of of of woke organizing
		
00:59:13 --> 00:59:14
			and woke,
		
00:59:14 --> 00:59:17
			activism. But here here it goes.
		
00:59:19 --> 00:59:20
			But the prophet
		
00:59:20 --> 00:59:20
			said,
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:26
			Glad tidings to the strangers. So, may Allah
		
00:59:26 --> 00:59:28
			always keep us strangers
		
00:59:28 --> 00:59:31
			that we think this stuff is is is
		
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33
			just is not normal. It's not right.
		
00:59:33 --> 00:59:34
			But, that's
		
00:59:35 --> 00:59:36
			That that's where the knowledge and being connected
		
00:59:36 --> 00:59:37
			to people of knowledge is essential
		
00:59:38 --> 00:59:39
			people of knowledge
		
00:59:39 --> 00:59:41
			is essential. Yeah. Because it helps,
		
00:59:42 --> 00:59:44
			establish and identify the parameters within which we
		
00:59:44 --> 00:59:46
			can work. And going back to your old
		
00:59:46 --> 00:59:49
			concept of, like, sacred activism. Yeah. Right? Activism,
		
00:59:50 --> 00:59:53
			which one can maybe call mundane because it's
		
00:59:53 --> 00:59:55
			of the world. It becomes sacred when it's
		
00:59:55 --> 00:59:56
			done according to
		
00:59:57 --> 00:59:59
			the guidelines of our deen and our our
		
00:59:59 --> 01:00:00
			beloved prophet, Sayid Muhammad.
		
01:00:02 --> 01:00:03
			Right? And you can't
		
01:00:03 --> 01:00:04
			you can't
		
01:00:05 --> 01:00:06
			disconnect the 2. So even one of the
		
01:00:06 --> 01:00:09
			more famous verses which are used to,
		
01:00:10 --> 01:00:11
			promote activism,
		
01:00:12 --> 01:00:13
			the enjoining of good,
		
01:00:15 --> 01:00:16
			for the joining of good and prohibition of
		
01:00:16 --> 01:00:17
			evil
		
01:00:17 --> 01:00:19
			where Allah describes us
		
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22
			as that you are the best of humankind.
		
01:00:24 --> 01:00:26
			Best of all nations sent for the benefit
		
01:00:26 --> 01:00:26
			of humankind.
		
01:00:29 --> 01:00:31
			You enjoy the good, you prohibit the evil.
		
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35
			No. It's qualified in this that you believe
		
01:00:35 --> 01:00:37
			in Allah, that you have iman. So you're
		
01:00:37 --> 01:00:39
			not just doing that blindly or based on
		
01:00:39 --> 01:00:41
			your own kind of sensibilities of what you
		
01:00:41 --> 01:00:43
			think is right or wrong.
		
01:00:43 --> 01:00:43
			Otherwise,
		
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45
			if we leave it to our sensibilities,
		
01:00:46 --> 01:00:48
			people differ on this. This isn't like a
		
01:00:48 --> 01:00:48
			Muslim issue
		
01:00:49 --> 01:00:51
			issue only. People differ on these issues.
		
01:00:51 --> 01:00:52
			And,
		
01:00:52 --> 01:00:55
			in those cases now where we differ about
		
01:00:56 --> 01:00:58
			as as a people, as as
		
01:00:58 --> 01:01:00
			as human beings about what is ethical, what
		
01:01:00 --> 01:01:02
			is moral, what is immoral.
		
01:01:03 --> 01:01:04
			Where then do we revert?
		
01:01:05 --> 01:01:06
			Where do we where do we turn to?
		
01:01:06 --> 01:01:08
			It has to be within
		
01:01:08 --> 01:01:11
			the the understanding of iman. And iman belief
		
01:01:11 --> 01:01:14
			in our society, unfortunately, has been kind of
		
01:01:14 --> 01:01:16
			just deemed as something which is in your
		
01:01:16 --> 01:01:17
			heart
		
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19
			and something which you you believe in is
		
01:01:19 --> 01:01:21
			just something which you think to be okay.
		
01:01:22 --> 01:01:23
			Where It's loosey goosey. It's very very loosey
		
01:01:23 --> 01:01:27
			goosey. It's very relative. It's something very left
		
01:01:27 --> 01:01:29
			ambiguous and relative to the individual. Like, well,
		
01:01:29 --> 01:01:30
			I believe this.
		
01:01:31 --> 01:01:33
			As Muslims, we don't have that luxury
		
01:01:34 --> 01:01:36
			to say simply, well, to me, this is
		
01:01:36 --> 01:01:36
			what I believe.
		
01:01:38 --> 01:01:41
			Islam has very clear defined what it means
		
01:01:41 --> 01:01:41
			to believe.
		
01:01:42 --> 01:01:45
			And we have to align our belief with
		
01:01:45 --> 01:01:47
			what Islam defines as belief or don't be
		
01:01:47 --> 01:01:47
			Muslim.
		
01:01:48 --> 01:01:49
			Well, look, in so called woke space of
		
01:01:49 --> 01:01:51
			Sheikh, they promote this thing that Muslims
		
01:01:52 --> 01:01:55
			have have many Muslims have latched onto.
		
01:01:55 --> 01:01:56
			They say, well, you know what?
		
01:01:57 --> 01:01:59
			You have your truth. You have your truth.
		
01:01:59 --> 01:02:00
			She has
		
01:02:00 --> 01:02:01
			her truth. Right.
		
01:02:04 --> 01:02:06
			They have their truth, meaning they're not a
		
01:02:06 --> 01:02:07
			male or a female.
		
01:02:08 --> 01:02:10
			And they're and they're equally true. Which is
		
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11
			interesting because the Al Haqq, you know, the
		
01:02:11 --> 01:02:13
			truth, the ultimate truth, ultimate reality is one
		
01:02:13 --> 01:02:16
			of the names of Allah. No. Allah has
		
01:02:17 --> 01:02:19
			no partners. That's right. You know? And
		
01:02:19 --> 01:02:21
			we have we have, like you know, there
		
01:02:21 --> 01:02:22
			are many things even in the deen that
		
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23
			we say we don't know what the truth
		
01:02:23 --> 01:02:25
			is, but we acknowledge there is a truth.
		
01:02:26 --> 01:02:29
			And, that's all extreme. It's it's easy for
		
01:02:29 --> 01:02:31
			people like myself and Sheikh Musa to say.
		
01:02:31 --> 01:02:32
			Yeah. Actually, it's not even easy for us
		
01:02:32 --> 01:02:34
			to say, but it's easy for us to
		
01:02:34 --> 01:02:34
			say why because we primarily operate within Mhmm.
		
01:02:34 --> 01:02:35
			Within, like, Masjid spaces, or
		
01:02:48 --> 01:02:48
			political
		
01:02:49 --> 01:02:49
			space.
		
01:02:51 --> 01:02:53
			Able to function in the space that you
		
01:02:53 --> 01:02:53
			function
		
01:02:54 --> 01:02:56
			and, like, not just get, like,
		
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58
			like, you know, like like, a gap
		
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00
			you, like, shot out of the sky, like,
		
01:03:00 --> 01:03:02
			you know, saying these things. Like, how has
		
01:03:02 --> 01:03:03
			that journey been?
		
01:03:03 --> 01:03:05
			You know, how is it like, what advice
		
01:03:05 --> 01:03:06
			do you give to someone who wants to?
		
01:03:06 --> 01:03:07
			Because the thing is the deen is the
		
01:03:07 --> 01:03:09
			deen is not only, like, hemmed into the
		
01:03:09 --> 01:03:11
			4 walls of the Masjid or the Madrasah.
		
01:03:11 --> 01:03:12
			It is
		
01:03:13 --> 01:03:15
			it is manifested in society, and it is
		
01:03:15 --> 01:03:15
			manifested in politics as well as business as
		
01:03:15 --> 01:03:15
			well as so many other things. How is
		
01:03:15 --> 01:03:17
			it that that space without being, like, you
		
01:03:17 --> 01:03:18
			know, level 7 canceled out, like, you know,
		
01:03:18 --> 01:03:20
			you have been able to survive in that
		
01:03:20 --> 01:03:22
			space without being, like, you know, level 7
		
01:03:22 --> 01:03:23
			canceled out, like, you know,
		
01:03:24 --> 01:03:26
			space without being, like, you know, level 7
		
01:03:26 --> 01:03:29
			canceled out, like, you know, to the, you
		
01:03:29 --> 01:03:31
			know, a 100th power. Yeah. You used that
		
01:03:31 --> 01:03:32
			term cancel culture.
		
01:03:33 --> 01:03:35
			Yeah. Some people have canceled. Right. Right. But
		
01:03:35 --> 01:03:37
			it's okay. Right. I think there's something,
		
01:03:38 --> 01:03:40
			there there's there's a few things,
		
01:03:40 --> 01:03:41
			that I've tried to,
		
01:03:42 --> 01:03:43
			incorporate,
		
01:03:44 --> 01:03:45
			both from
		
01:03:46 --> 01:03:48
			my own way of doing things,
		
01:03:49 --> 01:03:51
			why why I conclude it very early on
		
01:03:51 --> 01:03:52
			years ago.
		
01:03:52 --> 01:03:53
			And then,
		
01:03:54 --> 01:03:55
			also from my own,
		
01:03:56 --> 01:03:57
			my own morale.
		
01:03:58 --> 01:03:59
			And the first of those
		
01:04:01 --> 01:04:02
			issues that
		
01:04:03 --> 01:04:05
			I always try when I go into these
		
01:04:05 --> 01:04:06
			gatherings,
		
01:04:06 --> 01:04:09
			I always present my views
		
01:04:10 --> 01:04:10
			in a very
		
01:04:11 --> 01:04:12
			direct way
		
01:04:13 --> 01:04:15
			from day 1, from the very moment. I
		
01:04:15 --> 01:04:17
			don't start off loosey goosey, and I present
		
01:04:17 --> 01:04:19
			my views and how I view things on
		
01:04:19 --> 01:04:20
			certain things
		
01:04:20 --> 01:04:22
			from step 1 in a and I tried
		
01:04:22 --> 01:04:23
			to be firm
		
01:04:24 --> 01:04:24
			yet
		
01:04:25 --> 01:04:28
			kind in my firm Why? It's because when
		
01:04:30 --> 01:04:33
			I have seen some people get themselves in
		
01:04:33 --> 01:04:34
			trouble, they really don't believe in all this
		
01:04:34 --> 01:04:36
			stuff. Stuff. They start off kind of
		
01:04:37 --> 01:04:38
			overly
		
01:04:38 --> 01:04:42
			apologetic or overly accommodating, I should say. And
		
01:04:42 --> 01:04:44
			then, okay, you made this one compromise in
		
01:04:44 --> 01:04:46
			this small issue where you
		
01:04:46 --> 01:04:47
			stay silent
		
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49
			and then they keep on trying to move
		
01:04:49 --> 01:04:52
			the yard stick further and further and further
		
01:04:52 --> 01:04:54
			and further back and then when you try
		
01:04:54 --> 01:04:55
			to put your foot down and say, no.
		
01:04:55 --> 01:04:57
			I can't do this. Oh, well, why why
		
01:04:57 --> 01:04:59
			are you doing that now? Well, you are
		
01:04:59 --> 01:05:01
			with us on this, this, and this. Oh,
		
01:05:02 --> 01:05:04
			oh, oh, you're, oh, you you're you're a
		
01:05:04 --> 01:05:05
			bigot.
		
01:05:05 --> 01:05:06
			Right? So
		
01:05:07 --> 01:05:08
			you put your you have
		
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10
			to you have to lay it down. Let
		
01:05:10 --> 01:05:12
			say you put your your foundation down from
		
01:05:12 --> 01:05:14
			day 1. For sure. And then people may
		
01:05:14 --> 01:05:16
			not agree with you, but they will respect
		
01:05:16 --> 01:05:18
			you. They will respect that. And
		
01:05:18 --> 01:05:20
			and and this is what we learned from
		
01:05:20 --> 01:05:22
			Al Hajj, Mark, and Shabbos,
		
01:05:24 --> 01:05:26
			People many people didn't like him,
		
01:05:27 --> 01:05:27
			but
		
01:05:28 --> 01:05:31
			he commanded their respect. And this is interesting
		
01:05:31 --> 01:05:33
			too even in the idiom of how we
		
01:05:33 --> 01:05:36
			say in English. We don't beg for respect.
		
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38
			We command respect is what we say. So
		
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40
			I I so I tried to start off
		
01:05:41 --> 01:05:42
			with with that.
		
01:05:43 --> 01:05:45
			Right? We know of the saying. Whoever
		
01:05:45 --> 01:05:46
			seeks
		
01:05:46 --> 01:05:49
			honor with other than Allah, they're gonna be
		
01:05:49 --> 01:05:51
			humiliated. Right? This is number 1. May Allah
		
01:05:51 --> 01:05:53
			preserve your and your dignity. I mean I
		
01:05:53 --> 01:05:55
			mean and then the and then the the
		
01:05:55 --> 01:05:56
			the the the second thing,
		
01:05:57 --> 01:05:59
			besides this is I
		
01:06:00 --> 01:06:01
			I just always
		
01:06:01 --> 01:06:02
			try to,
		
01:06:03 --> 01:06:04
			remind myself that
		
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10
			trying to represent this dean is not supposed
		
01:06:10 --> 01:06:11
			to make one
		
01:06:12 --> 01:06:13
			popular
		
01:06:13 --> 01:06:16
			or well liked by people in the dominant
		
01:06:16 --> 01:06:17
			society.
		
01:06:17 --> 01:06:18
			Right? And by these people
		
01:06:19 --> 01:06:22
			who don't have respect for Islam, Iman, and
		
01:06:22 --> 01:06:23
			Hassan. Right? So
		
01:06:23 --> 01:06:26
			whether whether whether these people who who don't
		
01:06:26 --> 01:06:27
			value these things,
		
01:06:27 --> 01:06:30
			like me or not, including many Muslims, frankly,
		
01:06:30 --> 01:06:33
			who are cultural Muslims only respect Islam, human,
		
01:06:33 --> 01:06:34
			and Islam.
		
01:06:34 --> 01:06:35
			What they
		
01:06:35 --> 01:06:36
			what they care,
		
01:06:37 --> 01:06:39
			what they think about me is really the
		
01:06:39 --> 01:06:40
			least of my concerns. And, yeah,
		
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42
			maybe I I don't get,
		
01:06:43 --> 01:06:45
			main stage or invite to some of the
		
01:06:45 --> 01:06:46
			Muslim alphabet,
		
01:06:47 --> 01:06:49
			conventions or conferences
		
01:06:49 --> 01:06:52
			and get the main stage. And, you know,
		
01:06:52 --> 01:06:54
			maybe I'm not being invited to get this
		
01:06:54 --> 01:06:56
			honorarium or that honorarium.
		
01:06:58 --> 01:06:59
			But,
		
01:06:59 --> 01:07:01
			and or be famous, but that's okay. I'm
		
01:07:01 --> 01:07:04
			not looking for that anyway. And besides,
		
01:07:05 --> 01:07:06
			I'd
		
01:07:06 --> 01:07:07
			rather be
		
01:07:09 --> 01:07:10
			I'd rather be known
		
01:07:11 --> 01:07:13
			in the Malacoot than here. I'm not. I'm
		
01:07:13 --> 01:07:14
			not. And
		
01:07:15 --> 01:07:15
			and
		
01:07:20 --> 01:07:21
			And and And correct me if I'm wrong.
		
01:07:21 --> 01:07:23
			Right? Because a lot of times I think
		
01:07:23 --> 01:07:25
			people understand things in extremes,
		
01:07:25 --> 01:07:27
			and they think that if you're not gonna
		
01:07:27 --> 01:07:29
			support a particular group or movement, that means
		
01:07:29 --> 01:07:31
			you have to be, like, completely against it
		
01:07:31 --> 01:07:33
			in a sense where, like,
		
01:07:34 --> 01:07:36
			and and youngsters have, I think, a problem.
		
01:07:37 --> 01:07:38
			I I think,
		
01:07:39 --> 01:07:41
			Rex reconciling
		
01:07:41 --> 01:07:43
			this this matter. Mhmm. That if they can't
		
01:07:44 --> 01:07:44
			accept,
		
01:07:46 --> 01:07:46
			homosexuals
		
01:07:46 --> 01:07:48
			and or their sexuality, that means they have
		
01:07:48 --> 01:07:50
			to hate them or that they have to
		
01:07:50 --> 01:07:52
			disrespect them or discriminate against them. And then
		
01:07:52 --> 01:07:54
			so we have other stuff in the day
		
01:07:54 --> 01:07:55
			to do than to try to hack somebody
		
01:07:55 --> 01:07:57
			else down because of what they do in
		
01:07:57 --> 01:07:58
			their bedroom or whatever. Right. It's not a
		
01:07:58 --> 01:08:00
			priority. We have our Yeah. Like, first of
		
01:08:00 --> 01:08:02
			all, like, we don't think we we don't
		
01:08:02 --> 01:08:03
			need to hear that, like, about what you're,
		
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05
			you know, what you're in your driveway. Life.
		
01:08:05 --> 01:08:06
			In the same way, I'm not trying to
		
01:08:06 --> 01:08:07
			broadcast
		
01:08:08 --> 01:08:09
			what we do in our bedroom. Right? That's
		
01:08:09 --> 01:08:11
			something very personal, number 1. And number 2,
		
01:08:11 --> 01:08:13
			like, you can still be respectful
		
01:08:14 --> 01:08:15
			to a human being
		
01:08:16 --> 01:08:18
			and without discriminating against them.
		
01:08:18 --> 01:08:21
			Right? Because they have a particular lifestyle. Right.
		
01:08:21 --> 01:08:23
			So as Muslims, we're expected to do that.
		
01:08:23 --> 01:08:25
			We're not expected now to discriminate against a
		
01:08:25 --> 01:08:27
			person because of their sexuality or because they
		
01:08:27 --> 01:08:28
			have some gender reassignment.
		
01:08:36 --> 01:08:37
			Muhammad, have to agree in the same way.
		
01:08:37 --> 01:08:39
			You don't have to believe that, say, the
		
01:08:39 --> 01:08:41
			Muhammad, sallam, was a prophet if you choose
		
01:08:41 --> 01:08:42
			not to. Or you don't have to believe
		
01:08:42 --> 01:08:43
			that you have to pray 5 times a
		
01:08:43 --> 01:08:45
			day, but you should at least respect me
		
01:08:45 --> 01:08:47
			and not discriminate against me. So, like, in
		
01:08:47 --> 01:08:49
			the same way as a Muslim,
		
01:08:49 --> 01:08:50
			right,
		
01:08:50 --> 01:08:53
			don't expect us as Muslims to accept everything
		
01:08:53 --> 01:08:55
			wholesale about what you believe or what, you
		
01:08:55 --> 01:08:58
			know, whatever lifestyle choices you make. And at
		
01:08:58 --> 01:08:59
			the same time, that doesn't mean that now
		
01:08:59 --> 01:09:00
			I have to, like,
		
01:09:01 --> 01:09:04
			discriminate against a person or hate them or
		
01:09:04 --> 01:09:07
			or, like, marginalize them. Right. Well, I'll give
		
01:09:07 --> 01:09:09
			you an example. I was in this about
		
01:09:09 --> 01:09:11
			a decade ago, I was part of this
		
01:09:11 --> 01:09:12
			fellowship,
		
01:09:12 --> 01:09:14
			with the Rockwood Leadership Institute.
		
01:09:15 --> 01:09:18
			It was, when we met in, in Minneapolis,
		
01:09:18 --> 01:09:19
			actually, who's part of the cohort,
		
01:09:20 --> 01:09:21
			is now the current,
		
01:09:22 --> 01:09:24
			lieutenant governor of the state of Minneapolis.
		
01:09:25 --> 01:09:28
			Lieutenant governor Peggy Flanagan. She's a,
		
01:09:28 --> 01:09:31
			First Nations woman, Native American woman.
		
01:09:31 --> 01:09:33
			I was part of it. But also part
		
01:09:33 --> 01:09:34
			of this was this
		
01:09:34 --> 01:09:35
			individual
		
01:09:36 --> 01:09:36
			who
		
01:09:38 --> 01:09:38
			who,
		
01:09:39 --> 01:09:41
			identified as being a trans woman.
		
01:09:42 --> 01:09:44
			And, of course, these people are,
		
01:09:45 --> 01:09:46
			and this happened to me on 2 different
		
01:09:46 --> 01:09:49
			occasions. Another fellowship that I did,
		
01:09:51 --> 01:09:52
			through a,
		
01:09:53 --> 01:09:55
			like, a graduate level thing through
		
01:09:55 --> 01:09:58
			a major university, which I'm not gonna mention.
		
01:09:59 --> 01:10:00
			So out in the West Coast,
		
01:10:02 --> 01:10:03
			They paired
		
01:10:04 --> 01:10:05
			this person up with me because, you know,
		
01:10:05 --> 01:10:08
			they they they wanna break the imam. So
		
01:10:08 --> 01:10:08
			in this particular,
		
01:10:10 --> 01:10:11
			Leadership Institute,
		
01:10:11 --> 01:10:14
			I was paired off with this
		
01:10:14 --> 01:10:16
			person identified as a trans woman.
		
01:10:17 --> 01:10:18
			The second one,
		
01:10:19 --> 01:10:20
			they they
		
01:10:20 --> 01:10:23
			they paired me off with a,
		
01:10:24 --> 01:10:25
			a Pakistani
		
01:10:26 --> 01:10:28
			lesbian Muslim who does
		
01:10:29 --> 01:10:29
			LGBTQ
		
01:10:30 --> 01:10:31
			organizing
		
01:10:32 --> 01:10:35
			here and in Pakistan. She actually is the
		
01:10:35 --> 01:10:37
			she's actually a Morita of that gay imam
		
01:10:37 --> 01:10:38
			in DC.
		
01:10:41 --> 01:10:42
			Anyway, long story short,
		
01:10:44 --> 01:10:44
			my
		
01:10:45 --> 01:10:47
			self identified trans,
		
01:10:48 --> 01:10:50
			peer partner asked me,
		
01:10:51 --> 01:10:52
			well, you know,
		
01:10:53 --> 01:10:55
			do you know any imams that will you
		
01:10:55 --> 01:10:58
			know, if they do a, a marriage, you
		
01:10:58 --> 01:11:00
			know, a a trans marriage? And I was
		
01:11:00 --> 01:11:02
			like, absolutely not.
		
01:11:02 --> 01:11:04
			Right? I was like, no. And she says,
		
01:11:04 --> 01:11:07
			well I guess, theoretically, if if it's like
		
01:11:07 --> 01:11:09
			a trans man and a trans woman, there
		
01:11:09 --> 01:11:11
			is one man and woman. So I think
		
01:11:11 --> 01:11:12
			that could be valid. That's true. Like That's
		
01:11:12 --> 01:11:13
			true. Yeah. That's true. That's true. But not
		
01:11:13 --> 01:11:14
			in the way that you want it. Not
		
01:11:14 --> 01:11:16
			the way that she wants it. Right? So
		
01:11:16 --> 01:11:19
			even though she's not a Muslim. Right? So
		
01:11:19 --> 01:11:21
			I said absolutely not. And that's a good,
		
01:11:22 --> 01:11:23
			that's that's a good caveat. If you yes.
		
01:11:23 --> 01:11:25
			If you had trans man, could marry a
		
01:11:25 --> 01:11:26
			trans woman.
		
01:11:26 --> 01:11:29
			It's actually a biological woman
		
01:11:29 --> 01:11:31
			and a biological man. So yeah. Yeah. That
		
01:11:31 --> 01:11:34
			that that could work, I guess. But I
		
01:11:34 --> 01:11:35
			wouldn't do it in the masjid. But,
		
01:11:38 --> 01:11:41
			so that question came about. So it's like,
		
01:11:41 --> 01:11:43
			well, you know, well, what can we work
		
01:11:43 --> 01:11:44
			together on? I said, look,
		
01:11:48 --> 01:11:50
			the the the faith of Islam in the
		
01:11:50 --> 01:11:51
			Quran did not justify
		
01:11:52 --> 01:11:52
			vigilantism
		
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56
			or maiming or killing people by people taking
		
01:11:56 --> 01:11:58
			the law in their own hands.
		
01:11:58 --> 01:11:59
			Right?
		
01:12:01 --> 01:12:03
			Right? I didn't quote that that I but,
		
01:12:03 --> 01:12:05
			you know, we're not supposed to just go
		
01:12:05 --> 01:12:07
			out and just kill or maim and harm
		
01:12:07 --> 01:12:09
			people. And I said that,
		
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14
			you know, we think that people should be
		
01:12:15 --> 01:12:17
			free from being be up because of hate
		
01:12:17 --> 01:12:18
			crimes or bullied in school.
		
01:12:19 --> 01:12:20
			Right? So,
		
01:12:20 --> 01:12:21
			based upon
		
01:12:22 --> 01:12:24
			if they're perceived to be gay or if
		
01:12:24 --> 01:12:25
			they are gay. Because sometimes
		
01:12:26 --> 01:12:28
			school. I don't know how it was with
		
01:12:28 --> 01:12:30
			you growing up, but we saw someone that
		
01:12:30 --> 01:12:33
			was a little didn't play football or we
		
01:12:33 --> 01:12:34
			thought was a little,
		
01:12:35 --> 01:12:37
			no more of, yeah, effeminate.
		
01:12:37 --> 01:12:39
			And we would call him, you know, we
		
01:12:39 --> 01:12:41
			call him gay in a second even though
		
01:12:41 --> 01:12:43
			he wasn't even gay. Because, see, sometimes
		
01:12:44 --> 01:12:45
			people would would would be would be bullied
		
01:12:45 --> 01:12:48
			or or considered like, if they like art
		
01:12:48 --> 01:12:50
			or something like that, they didn't play football.
		
01:12:50 --> 01:12:52
			So, I mean, you you a fag. So,
		
01:12:52 --> 01:12:54
			I mean, just right? We used to say
		
01:12:54 --> 01:12:56
			stuff like that. Right. Right? Which is so
		
01:12:56 --> 01:12:58
			that's not right for a learning environment. So
		
01:12:59 --> 01:13:01
			just a prime example, she says, well, this
		
01:13:01 --> 01:13:01
			person
		
01:13:11 --> 01:13:12
			if in a coalition,
		
01:13:13 --> 01:13:13
			we could,
		
01:13:14 --> 01:13:16
			be on the same page. So when there
		
01:13:16 --> 01:13:17
			was about
		
01:13:17 --> 01:13:19
			8 or 9 years ago, the strengthening
		
01:13:20 --> 01:13:21
			of the,
		
01:13:23 --> 01:13:26
			of the, anti bullying law in Michigan for
		
01:13:26 --> 01:13:28
			schools. And it wasn't organized by
		
01:13:29 --> 01:13:32
			LGBTQ group. It's organized by one group, and
		
01:13:32 --> 01:13:33
			they asked us to be a part of
		
01:13:33 --> 01:13:35
			it because there were 2 things miss missing
		
01:13:35 --> 01:13:36
			from the law.
		
01:13:36 --> 01:13:38
			It was still legal in the state of
		
01:13:38 --> 01:13:38
			Michigan
		
01:13:39 --> 01:13:40
			that there was no repercussions
		
01:13:41 --> 01:13:44
			according to state mandate for children
		
01:13:44 --> 01:13:44
			protections
		
01:13:45 --> 01:13:46
			for being bullied because of religion,
		
01:13:48 --> 01:13:48
			but also
		
01:13:49 --> 01:13:49
			because
		
01:13:50 --> 01:13:50
			of,
		
01:13:51 --> 01:13:51
			sexual
		
01:13:52 --> 01:13:53
			identity or preference.
		
01:13:53 --> 01:13:54
			So
		
01:13:55 --> 01:13:57
			we signed on to the strengthening of that
		
01:13:57 --> 01:13:58
			bill
		
01:13:58 --> 01:14:00
			and so did that
		
01:14:00 --> 01:14:01
			LGBTQ
		
01:14:01 --> 01:14:02
			group. And
		
01:14:03 --> 01:14:05
			when we had the press conference and ended
		
01:14:05 --> 01:14:06
			up being passed. When we had the press
		
01:14:06 --> 01:14:07
			conference,
		
01:14:07 --> 01:14:10
			there was, like, the pastor at the front
		
01:14:10 --> 01:14:12
			of the rostrum or the podium. And I
		
01:14:12 --> 01:14:14
			was standing over there, and there were other
		
01:14:14 --> 01:14:15
			people. And on the other side
		
01:14:16 --> 01:14:18
			was the person that identified as trans being
		
01:14:18 --> 01:14:19
			with
		
01:14:20 --> 01:14:20
			the with the,
		
01:14:22 --> 01:14:24
			with with that organization. Right? So,
		
01:14:25 --> 01:14:28
			because we don't want anyone to be beat
		
01:14:28 --> 01:14:30
			up or bullied in school even if they
		
01:14:30 --> 01:14:31
			identify as that. And we especially,
		
01:14:32 --> 01:14:33
			at that time,
		
01:14:35 --> 01:14:36
			Muslim children in Detroit,
		
01:14:37 --> 01:14:39
			and South Asians in particular
		
01:14:39 --> 01:14:40
			were
		
01:14:41 --> 01:14:43
			the recipients of the highest percentage of bullying
		
01:14:43 --> 01:14:45
			in schools in the state of Michigan were
		
01:14:45 --> 01:14:47
			Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi
		
01:14:48 --> 01:14:49
			kids. So,
		
01:14:51 --> 01:14:52
			I mean, we were we were
		
01:14:52 --> 01:14:53
			you know, and I
		
01:14:54 --> 01:14:57
			treated that person with respect and saw them
		
01:14:57 --> 01:14:59
			again. I mean, obviously, I'm not gonna
		
01:14:59 --> 01:15:00
			endorse their
		
01:15:01 --> 01:15:03
			the program of their organization or lifestyle, but
		
01:15:03 --> 01:15:05
			that that's an example of how we were
		
01:15:05 --> 01:15:06
			part of a broader coalition.
		
01:15:06 --> 01:15:09
			And and we weren't gonna pull out just
		
01:15:09 --> 01:15:10
			because this,
		
01:15:10 --> 01:15:11
			LGBTQ
		
01:15:12 --> 01:15:15
			group was in it. We we we treat
		
01:15:15 --> 01:15:16
			the person with respect. And,
		
01:15:17 --> 01:15:19
			and I'm sure that individual, if they still
		
01:15:19 --> 01:15:21
			work for there, they can never say
		
01:15:21 --> 01:15:21
			that,
		
01:15:22 --> 01:15:26
			in any way was I, disrespectful to to
		
01:15:26 --> 01:15:29
			to lesbians and to people who call themselves,
		
01:15:30 --> 01:15:30
			trans.
		
01:15:32 --> 01:15:35
			And one last thing that I kinda wanted
		
01:15:35 --> 01:15:36
			to bring up,
		
01:15:36 --> 01:15:38
			talking about all of these,
		
01:15:39 --> 01:15:39
			subjects.
		
01:15:39 --> 01:15:41
			You know, you said that you listened to,
		
01:15:41 --> 01:15:42
			like, hip hop and rap, you know, back
		
01:15:42 --> 01:15:44
			in the day. Yeah. And,
		
01:15:44 --> 01:15:45
			you know,
		
01:15:46 --> 01:15:48
			there was this flipping of the situation where
		
01:15:48 --> 01:15:50
			hip hop used to be all about educating
		
01:15:50 --> 01:15:53
			yourself, empowering yourself, and then it became something
		
01:15:53 --> 01:15:55
			that really just dumbed people down, and, and,
		
01:15:56 --> 01:15:58
			kinda still persists that way these days.
		
01:15:59 --> 01:16:01
			Have you noticed or
		
01:16:02 --> 01:16:05
			have has anyone noticed that it's been kind
		
01:16:05 --> 01:16:07
			of the same thing that happened with this
		
01:16:07 --> 01:16:09
			whole subject of, like, labels? At one point,
		
01:16:09 --> 01:16:11
			there was this really big thing about, like,
		
01:16:11 --> 01:16:13
			not applying labels to people.
		
01:16:13 --> 01:16:15
			And then now, that is the name of
		
01:16:15 --> 01:16:17
			the game. Everybody's got these labels, and they
		
01:16:17 --> 01:16:19
			wanna use them at every instance. You know?
		
01:16:19 --> 01:16:21
			I just wanted to bring that up because
		
01:16:21 --> 01:16:24
			talking about that subject, I kinda just wondered,
		
01:16:24 --> 01:16:26
			like, you know, I don't know why things
		
01:16:26 --> 01:16:27
			get reversed sometimes,
		
01:16:29 --> 01:16:31
			culturally here in America. It just it seems
		
01:16:31 --> 01:16:33
			really weird. Like, like, one moment, it's one
		
01:16:33 --> 01:16:34
			way, and then all of a sudden, it
		
01:16:34 --> 01:16:36
			just completely reverses. It's like a 180.
		
01:16:37 --> 01:16:39
			But, and What do you mean by labels?
		
01:16:39 --> 01:16:41
			Like, labels. Like Give an example.
		
01:16:42 --> 01:16:44
			So for example, the whole LGBT
		
01:16:45 --> 01:16:47
			thing. You know, at one point, there was,
		
01:16:47 --> 01:16:49
			like, you know, you don't wanna be labeled
		
01:16:49 --> 01:16:50
			as something. Like, it was a really
		
01:16:51 --> 01:16:53
			strong movement of, like, not using labels to
		
01:16:53 --> 01:16:54
			describe people. But now it's all about that.
		
01:16:54 --> 01:16:55
			You know? Like, you go on Twitter and
		
01:16:55 --> 01:16:57
			all over the Internet, you know, you have
		
01:16:57 --> 01:16:58
			these things where it's like, you know, he,
		
01:16:58 --> 01:16:59
			she,
		
01:16:59 --> 01:17:00
			you know,
		
01:17:03 --> 01:17:04
			they wanna be identified as this and that.
		
01:17:04 --> 01:17:05
			So it just
		
01:17:06 --> 01:17:07
			it just seems like
		
01:17:07 --> 01:17:10
			there was a complete reversal of this thought
		
01:17:10 --> 01:17:13
			process of not applying labels with people, and
		
01:17:13 --> 01:17:15
			then all of a sudden now everyone wants
		
01:17:15 --> 01:17:16
			to label everything
		
01:17:16 --> 01:17:17
			at a certain kind of way. Of way.
		
01:17:17 --> 01:17:19
			It just it just came up as a
		
01:17:19 --> 01:17:22
			thought. But Well, I'll give a metaphysical
		
01:17:22 --> 01:17:24
			re and I can't know what's with with
		
01:17:24 --> 01:17:25
			the, the say
		
01:17:26 --> 01:17:27
			about this, but,
		
01:17:28 --> 01:17:30
			I think there's a I wanna say metaphysical,
		
01:17:30 --> 01:17:33
			but there's perhaps a, a spiritual
		
01:17:33 --> 01:17:35
			answer, and then there's a social, political one.
		
01:17:36 --> 01:17:36
			So
		
01:17:38 --> 01:17:39
			spiritually speaking,
		
01:17:39 --> 01:17:42
			we know that as we get closer to
		
01:17:42 --> 01:17:44
			the end of time and the appearance of
		
01:17:44 --> 01:17:46
			the Dajjal that it's it's part of the
		
01:17:46 --> 01:17:48
			plan that people will be confused.
		
01:17:48 --> 01:17:50
			And Imam Ghazali in Ihya
		
01:17:51 --> 01:17:51
			in the,
		
01:17:53 --> 01:17:54
			the or the
		
01:17:54 --> 01:17:56
			the the mission of the hadith. Al Iraqi
		
01:17:56 --> 01:17:59
			did this, but there's a section in the
		
01:17:59 --> 01:18:01
			in the chapter that you mentioned on
		
01:18:03 --> 01:18:04
			for being
		
01:18:04 --> 01:18:05
			evil, where it says,
		
01:18:06 --> 01:18:09
			how will you be when you see the
		
01:18:09 --> 01:18:11
			as? And how will you be when you
		
01:18:11 --> 01:18:14
			see the? How will you be when you
		
01:18:14 --> 01:18:17
			see the evil as good? And you'll see
		
01:18:17 --> 01:18:19
			the good as evil. Right? So we we
		
01:18:19 --> 01:18:21
			we have a mention of this, and we
		
01:18:21 --> 01:18:22
			know
		
01:18:22 --> 01:18:24
			as we come closer to end of time
		
01:18:24 --> 01:18:26
			and the sounds, the signs of the hour
		
01:18:26 --> 01:18:28
			are manifesting, that there's gonna
		
01:18:28 --> 01:18:30
			be more confusion. Right? So and,
		
01:18:31 --> 01:18:33
			and may align as what y'all have us
		
01:18:33 --> 01:18:35
			see, truth is truth and follow it. And
		
01:18:35 --> 01:18:37
			may align as what y'all have us see
		
01:18:37 --> 01:18:37
			bottle
		
01:18:38 --> 01:18:40
			a false citizen and stay away from it.
		
01:18:40 --> 01:18:42
			The the the second point is that
		
01:18:43 --> 01:18:45
			it's actually this reassignment is part of of
		
01:18:45 --> 01:18:47
			an agenda. So
		
01:18:47 --> 01:18:49
			when even when people use this term unapologetically
		
01:18:50 --> 01:18:50
			Muslim,
		
01:18:51 --> 01:18:54
			they don't they may not even know that
		
01:18:54 --> 01:18:57
			the roots of it comes from a movement
		
01:18:57 --> 01:18:58
			that was carefully
		
01:18:59 --> 01:19:03
			designed and wordsmith to try to reassign things
		
01:19:03 --> 01:19:06
			in order to promote certain things. So it
		
01:19:06 --> 01:19:08
			was it was unapologetically
		
01:19:08 --> 01:19:10
			gay, unapologetically
		
01:19:11 --> 01:19:13
			lesbian. And then so within these
		
01:19:13 --> 01:19:17
			identity politics, then Muslims started saying unapologetically Muslim.
		
01:19:17 --> 01:19:18
			But if you go back and trace the
		
01:19:18 --> 01:19:19
			roots
		
01:19:19 --> 01:19:21
			of where this so called unapologetic
		
01:19:21 --> 01:19:23
			comes from and it's and by the way,
		
01:19:23 --> 01:19:24
			once people say unapologetically
		
01:19:24 --> 01:19:26
			Muslim, they only mean unapologetically
		
01:19:26 --> 01:19:29
			Muslim with the right. They don't mean unapologetically
		
01:19:29 --> 01:19:30
			Muslim
		
01:19:31 --> 01:19:32
			about iman
		
01:19:32 --> 01:19:35
			with the left. Right? Right. Right. It it
		
01:19:35 --> 01:19:38
			it's only unapologetically Muslim is treating Muslim as
		
01:19:38 --> 01:19:40
			some sort of quasi ethnic
		
01:19:41 --> 01:19:42
			or or sociopolitical
		
01:19:43 --> 01:19:43
			identity.
		
01:19:44 --> 01:19:46
			It doesn't mean to be unapologetic about, oh,
		
01:19:47 --> 01:19:48
			Islam is against,
		
01:19:50 --> 01:19:50
			it's forbidden
		
01:19:51 --> 01:19:52
			to have * out of wedlock and only
		
01:19:52 --> 01:19:54
			a man and woman can be married. Oh,
		
01:19:54 --> 01:19:56
			it's it's it's permissible in Islam that if
		
01:19:56 --> 01:19:57
			a man can be just, he can have
		
01:19:57 --> 01:19:59
			up to 4 wives.
		
01:19:59 --> 01:20:02
			Right? That We just got canceled. Anyway, on.
		
01:20:02 --> 01:20:05
			No. No. That that that that
		
01:20:05 --> 01:20:07
			that that that that intoxicants
		
01:20:07 --> 01:20:10
			Yeah. Are forbidden. That gambling forbidden, and we
		
01:20:10 --> 01:20:13
			and we don't compromise. Is forbidden. Yeah. Riba.
		
01:20:13 --> 01:20:16
			Right? So usury. Yeah. It's it's really interesting
		
01:20:16 --> 01:20:18
			you mentioned that. Like,
		
01:20:18 --> 01:20:21
			even the term Islamophobia, I'm like, Islamophobia?
		
01:20:21 --> 01:20:23
			Like, when I first heard that, I'm like,
		
01:20:23 --> 01:20:25
			you have, like, homophobia and arachnophobia, and we
		
01:20:25 --> 01:20:27
			ain't gay and we ain't spiders. Like, what
		
01:20:27 --> 01:20:29
			is Islamophobia all about? You know? But it
		
01:20:29 --> 01:20:30
			just kinda caught on and, like, you you
		
01:20:30 --> 01:20:32
			gotta roll with it. You know?
		
01:20:32 --> 01:20:35
			Well, I I've actually stopped using that term
		
01:20:35 --> 01:20:36
			personally when I do writings and things or
		
01:20:36 --> 01:20:39
			speak, I say I'll say anti Muslim bigotry.
		
01:20:40 --> 01:20:42
			Right? Right. But I I stopped using Islamophobe
		
01:20:42 --> 01:20:44
			because really, Islamophobia, for the most part is
		
01:20:44 --> 01:20:47
			not fear of Islam. At best it's Muslim
		
01:20:47 --> 01:20:48
			phobia.
		
01:20:48 --> 01:20:52
			Right? Perhaps. Right. But it's it's but there
		
01:20:52 --> 01:20:53
			is a manophobia.
		
01:20:54 --> 01:20:56
			Right? And and there's and there's real. So
		
01:20:57 --> 01:20:59
			for those who are watching, who are activists,
		
01:20:59 --> 01:21:01
			they're gonna be concerned about Islamophobia. You should
		
01:21:01 --> 01:21:03
			also be concerned about emanophobia.
		
01:21:03 --> 01:21:06
			Because we're a people of Islam and iman.
		
01:21:06 --> 01:21:07
			It is. So Sheikh,
		
01:21:14 --> 01:21:16
			we've taken a lot of your time,
		
01:21:16 --> 01:21:18
			and we know that you are busy and
		
01:21:18 --> 01:21:20
			we appreciate, like, anybody who who doesn't,
		
01:21:21 --> 01:21:23
			you know, who wants to know why we
		
01:21:23 --> 01:21:25
			would say that, go check out, Imam Dawood's,
		
01:21:26 --> 01:21:28
			social media, his Twitter, and his,
		
01:21:29 --> 01:21:30
			Facebook
		
01:21:31 --> 01:21:32
			different things that he's doing, the good work
		
01:21:32 --> 01:21:34
			Cary Detroit is doing,
		
01:21:35 --> 01:21:38
			etcetera. The books that he's written. Right? One
		
01:21:38 --> 01:21:40
			we mentioned was towards sacred Activism and where
		
01:21:40 --> 01:21:41
			is your preferred
		
01:21:42 --> 01:21:44
			means for them to get it? Meccabooks.com.
		
01:21:45 --> 01:21:48
			You can get towards sacred activism. Yeah. And,
		
01:21:49 --> 01:21:52
			there's also online on their YouTube page.
		
01:21:52 --> 01:21:55
			There is for each chapter, there is a,
		
01:21:55 --> 01:21:56
			a reader,
		
01:21:57 --> 01:22:00
			basically, or guided reading for each chapter where
		
01:22:00 --> 01:22:03
			basically I talk about some small points. And,
		
01:22:05 --> 01:22:08
			when things open back up, then I will
		
01:22:08 --> 01:22:08
			be,
		
01:22:09 --> 01:22:10
			and maybe we can do this online, but
		
01:22:10 --> 01:22:11
			I'll be available
		
01:22:12 --> 01:22:14
			to teach the class on it because I
		
01:22:14 --> 01:22:15
			have a whole
		
01:22:15 --> 01:22:18
			session of classes with PowerPoint presentations set to
		
01:22:18 --> 01:22:20
			actually teach the book. The book was written
		
01:22:20 --> 01:22:22
			really to be a primer as a short
		
01:22:22 --> 01:22:23
			guide, because I know that people don't read
		
01:22:23 --> 01:22:26
			big books these days. But it was designed
		
01:22:26 --> 01:22:28
			to be a class. So the first
		
01:22:29 --> 01:22:31
			class session we have was a weekend intensive
		
01:22:31 --> 01:22:33
			in Mississauga with Sheikh Faraz O'Bani. That's where
		
01:22:33 --> 01:22:34
			we kicked off the,
		
01:22:35 --> 01:22:36
			the classes and the spin.
		
01:22:37 --> 01:22:39
			We talked about other I think the last
		
01:22:39 --> 01:22:41
			thing online I did was with our
		
01:22:41 --> 01:22:44
			beloved brother, Sheikh Arsalan Haq, down in Texas.
		
01:22:44 --> 01:22:46
			Yeah. Down in Dallas that we did it
		
01:22:46 --> 01:22:49
			with the, East East Plano Islamic Center.
		
01:22:50 --> 01:22:53
			So, you know, this also, opportunity Arsalan, I
		
01:22:53 --> 01:22:55
			think, is in in the, not in Epic.
		
01:22:55 --> 01:22:57
			He's in the old Plano master.
		
01:22:58 --> 01:23:00
			Is in Epic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
		
01:23:00 --> 01:23:02
			then, Sheikh Arslan's in the other one in
		
01:23:02 --> 01:23:03
			Plano. So,
		
01:23:03 --> 01:23:05
			you know, there's there's also,
		
01:23:06 --> 01:23:09
			classes that are designed around it in in
		
01:23:09 --> 01:23:11
			discussion, and we've discussed
		
01:23:19 --> 01:23:20
			Yeah. Yeah.
		
01:23:21 --> 01:23:22
			Right? And Absolutely. So,
		
01:23:23 --> 01:23:26
			you know, we're we're open we're open to,
		
01:23:26 --> 01:23:28
			you know, online if you if you contact
		
01:23:28 --> 01:23:32
			me. We're we're 1 to, to do something.
		
01:23:32 --> 01:23:34
			So what is the exorbitant price of these
		
01:23:34 --> 01:23:36
			books? I know you're not like, he didn't
		
01:23:36 --> 01:23:37
			ask about this. I wanna make a point
		
01:23:37 --> 01:23:39
			right now. How much does the book cost?
		
01:23:40 --> 01:23:41
			1099.
		
01:23:41 --> 01:23:42
			1099.
		
01:23:43 --> 01:23:45
			If you guys wanna have a Muslim community
		
01:23:45 --> 01:23:47
			where people still write books of quality, just
		
01:23:47 --> 01:23:49
			go ahead and buy the book. If you
		
01:23:49 --> 01:23:51
			don't read it, you can gift it to
		
01:23:51 --> 01:23:53
			your cousin or nephew who's in MSA somewhere
		
01:24:02 --> 01:24:04
			dinner. People will, like we will buy,
		
01:24:04 --> 01:24:07
			Kanye West's Kitchen Center. We will buy, we
		
01:24:07 --> 01:24:09
			will buy will people pay for their Minder
		
01:24:09 --> 01:24:12
			subscription for god's sakes or to whatever other
		
01:24:12 --> 01:24:13
			iteration of
		
01:24:15 --> 01:24:17
			that app that they'll pay for or other
		
01:24:17 --> 01:24:19
			apps that they'll pay for, and that's why
		
01:24:19 --> 01:24:21
			those things exist. If we don't support our,
		
01:24:22 --> 01:24:24
			Muslim authors that are putting out quality work
		
01:24:24 --> 01:24:25
			that influences,
		
01:24:26 --> 01:24:28
			society for the better, like, we shouldn't be
		
01:24:28 --> 01:24:30
			people of biblio phobia, like, for the fear
		
01:24:30 --> 01:24:31
			of reading. Right?
		
01:24:32 --> 01:24:33
			Buy the books and support them,
		
01:24:34 --> 01:24:36
			and do attend these lessons. You know, like,
		
01:24:36 --> 01:24:38
			if you're an MSA, if you're a political
		
01:24:38 --> 01:24:39
			movement, if you're a masjid that wants to
		
01:24:39 --> 01:24:42
			get more involved in the community, etcetera, etcetera,
		
01:24:42 --> 01:24:44
			you know, if you cannot pass if,
		
01:24:44 --> 01:24:47
			Ibadan would come to your community and teach
		
01:24:47 --> 01:24:48
			the sacred activism
		
01:24:48 --> 01:24:50
			course and its various modules,
		
01:24:50 --> 01:24:52
			then at least take benefit online. A lot
		
01:24:52 --> 01:24:55
			of stuff is cheaper or free than sometimes.
		
01:24:55 --> 01:24:58
			Yeah. You know, take benefit from it. I
		
01:24:58 --> 01:24:58
			wanted to mention
		
01:24:59 --> 01:25:00
			the other book that,
		
01:25:01 --> 01:25:04
			I was gifted by, your coauthor, Ahmed Mubarak,
		
01:25:04 --> 01:25:06
			when I was out out in Rockford. Yes.
		
01:25:06 --> 01:25:08
			This is another wonderful book, and maybe, let
		
01:25:08 --> 01:25:09
			you say a couple of words about that
		
01:25:09 --> 01:25:11
			before jumping off.
		
01:25:12 --> 01:25:14
			In as much as it's a beautiful work
		
01:25:14 --> 01:25:15
			because
		
01:25:15 --> 01:25:16
			our dean,
		
01:25:17 --> 01:25:19
			you know, like, race in America means something
		
01:25:19 --> 01:25:21
			very particular for this time and for this
		
01:25:21 --> 01:25:21
			place.
		
01:25:22 --> 01:25:22
			And,
		
01:25:23 --> 01:25:26
			people superimposed, like, their ideas of race, what
		
01:25:26 --> 01:25:28
			they mean in America, like, you know, after,
		
01:25:28 --> 01:25:29
			like, whatever,
		
01:25:30 --> 01:25:32
			you know, the revolutionary war and,
		
01:25:33 --> 01:25:36
			you know, until now. They superimposed those things
		
01:25:36 --> 01:25:37
			on Dean to the point where some of
		
01:25:37 --> 01:25:39
			our African American,
		
01:25:39 --> 01:25:41
			brothers and sisters are made to feel
		
01:25:42 --> 01:25:44
			somehow like the dean is like a, you
		
01:25:44 --> 01:25:46
			know, is like going from the back of
		
01:25:46 --> 01:25:47
			the bus to the back of the camel
		
01:25:47 --> 01:25:49
			to quote, a figure that I feel is
		
01:25:49 --> 01:25:52
			like a very pajalic figure. And for him
		
01:25:52 --> 01:25:53
			even to say that I I it bothers
		
01:25:53 --> 01:25:55
			me, but there is somewhat of a point
		
01:25:55 --> 01:25:57
			where people are made to feel because
		
01:25:57 --> 01:25:59
			of people who talk on behalf of Islam
		
01:25:59 --> 01:26:01
			and misrepresent it,
		
01:26:01 --> 01:26:04
			that somehow blackness, what what is now associated
		
01:26:04 --> 01:26:06
			with the idea of blackness, if you fit
		
01:26:06 --> 01:26:09
			those categories that somehow you don't have,
		
01:26:10 --> 01:26:11
			you don't have a
		
01:26:12 --> 01:26:14
			something that you could see of yourself even
		
01:26:14 --> 01:26:17
			in the highest level level of transmitters of
		
01:26:17 --> 01:26:18
			the deen. You mentioned the companions or the
		
01:26:18 --> 01:26:21
			and the imams of the family, the prophet
		
01:26:21 --> 01:26:23
			etcetera. And so this book, like, I want
		
01:26:23 --> 01:26:25
			you to tell tell us about this book,
		
01:26:25 --> 01:26:27
			in in in brief and also
		
01:26:27 --> 01:26:29
			maybe a couple of things that someone could
		
01:26:29 --> 01:26:30
			say, well, I didn't know that,
		
01:26:30 --> 01:26:33
			that will make, our African American, or African
		
01:26:33 --> 01:26:35
			African, brothers and sisters
		
01:26:36 --> 01:26:38
			feel comfortable in their place, and also give
		
01:26:38 --> 01:26:40
			pause to other people who may, you know,
		
01:26:40 --> 01:26:42
			have their ostrich head in the ground,
		
01:26:43 --> 01:26:44
			that, you know, you need to, like, wise
		
01:26:44 --> 01:26:46
			up about, you know, what you think about
		
01:26:46 --> 01:26:47
			blackness. Because,
		
01:26:57 --> 01:27:00
			we coauthored a book called Centering Black Narrative,
		
01:27:00 --> 01:27:02
			Black Muslim Nobles Among the Early Pious Muslims.
		
01:27:03 --> 01:27:04
			And just for,
		
01:27:05 --> 01:27:08
			the occasion behind this book, it actually stemmed
		
01:27:08 --> 01:27:09
			from
		
01:27:09 --> 01:27:10
			some very,
		
01:27:12 --> 01:27:15
			unfortunate comments that are made by a public
		
01:27:15 --> 01:27:15
			speaker,
		
01:27:16 --> 01:27:18
			in the UK who's made a number of
		
01:27:19 --> 01:27:21
			of videos that are controversial
		
01:27:22 --> 01:27:22
			about
		
01:27:23 --> 01:27:25
			and some other things. I'm not gonna mention
		
01:27:25 --> 01:27:26
			his name.
		
01:27:26 --> 01:27:26
			But,
		
01:27:28 --> 01:27:30
			he made some comments. Not every not every
		
01:27:30 --> 01:27:32
			has one eye. Some of them have 2.
		
01:27:32 --> 01:27:33
			Anyway Yeah. So
		
01:27:35 --> 01:27:37
			and even some of them claim our medev,
		
01:27:37 --> 01:27:39
			unfortunately. A lot of you. But
		
01:27:41 --> 01:27:41
			we
		
01:27:44 --> 01:27:46
			we wrote this book,
		
01:27:46 --> 01:27:48
			in in regards to some statements that were
		
01:27:48 --> 01:27:49
			made,
		
01:27:49 --> 01:27:52
			that were anti black. And it also
		
01:27:52 --> 01:27:55
			because some people looked up to the speaker,
		
01:27:55 --> 01:27:57
			it caused them some confusion and doubts about
		
01:27:57 --> 01:27:58
			themselves, unfortunately.
		
01:28:00 --> 01:28:03
			So we wrote this book, Ustel Abdulah Ali.
		
01:28:04 --> 01:28:07
			Wrote the wrote the foreword or the introduction
		
01:28:07 --> 01:28:11
			to it. And it was done to,
		
01:28:11 --> 01:28:15
			show some of the noble Muslims of the
		
01:28:15 --> 01:28:17
			first two generations who were known to be
		
01:28:17 --> 01:28:18
			black
		
01:28:18 --> 01:28:21
			besides saying Bilal or Al Nahyan because, you
		
01:28:21 --> 01:28:23
			know, some of stuff. You know, sometimes when
		
01:28:23 --> 01:28:25
			people will say, my best friend's black Mhmm.
		
01:28:25 --> 01:28:27
			Or, you know, when you bring up racism,
		
01:28:27 --> 01:28:28
			oh, you know what? What? You
		
01:28:29 --> 01:28:30
			know? You know? You know? You know? Call
		
01:28:30 --> 01:28:32
			the event so racism is gone. It's not
		
01:28:32 --> 01:28:34
			literally heard that from an uncle when I
		
01:28:34 --> 01:28:36
			gave the clip by in Baltimore
		
01:28:36 --> 01:28:36
			last,
		
01:28:37 --> 01:28:38
			year in my heart. I mentioned that oh,
		
01:28:38 --> 01:28:39
			you you have to talk about this issue
		
01:28:39 --> 01:28:41
			of racism. You know, because it'll be now
		
01:28:41 --> 01:28:42
			called the,
		
01:28:42 --> 01:28:45
			and, you know, racism is gone. You know?
		
01:28:47 --> 01:28:48
			So
		
01:28:48 --> 01:28:50
			so, we wrote this book.
		
01:28:51 --> 01:28:52
			We we we wrote this book,
		
01:28:53 --> 01:28:55
			to highlight this and also to break the
		
01:28:55 --> 01:28:55
			myth
		
01:28:56 --> 01:28:57
			about
		
01:28:58 --> 01:29:00
			mutual exclusivity between Arabs
		
01:29:01 --> 01:29:01
			and blackness.
		
01:29:02 --> 01:29:04
			Because Arabs aren't a race. And the Asli
		
01:29:04 --> 01:29:08
			Arabs, the foundational Arabs were predominantly described as
		
01:29:08 --> 01:29:09
			as
		
01:29:09 --> 01:29:11
			brown and dark brown. So
		
01:29:12 --> 01:29:14
			the average out of the days of old
		
01:29:14 --> 01:29:17
			would look more like someone from Sudan than
		
01:29:17 --> 01:29:17
			someone from
		
01:29:18 --> 01:29:18
			Sham
		
01:29:19 --> 01:29:21
			or or or greater Syria, for instance. Right?
		
01:29:22 --> 01:29:24
			So some of those things that we we
		
01:29:24 --> 01:29:26
			brought out, for instance, just to bring this
		
01:29:26 --> 01:29:27
			up, is that
		
01:29:28 --> 01:29:29
			overwhelmingly,
		
01:29:29 --> 01:29:30
			if we look at
		
01:29:32 --> 01:29:33
			by, Ibn O'Jazi,
		
01:29:34 --> 01:29:34
			Alhambali,
		
01:29:36 --> 01:29:38
			for his for his book,
		
01:29:41 --> 01:29:42
			the great scholar,
		
01:29:43 --> 01:29:44
			of of history
		
01:29:45 --> 01:29:46
			and others,
		
01:29:46 --> 01:29:48
			you see the predominant,
		
01:29:49 --> 01:29:50
			and.
		
01:29:51 --> 01:29:53
			And and. May Allah be well pleased
		
01:29:54 --> 01:29:55
			with who's himself an ocean.
		
01:30:00 --> 01:30:00
			The
		
01:30:02 --> 01:30:06
			is normally described overwhelmingly in Islamic books as.
		
01:30:08 --> 01:30:09
			So let me break that down for you
		
01:30:09 --> 01:30:11
			all linguistically. You don't know about these words.
		
01:30:11 --> 01:30:14
			So in old Arabic, Adam means brown.
		
01:30:14 --> 01:30:16
			Shadid is intense. The same it's the same
		
01:30:16 --> 01:30:18
			word, by the way, for, like, our forefathers
		
01:30:18 --> 01:30:21
			in Adam. Alisna. And now even the scientists,
		
01:30:21 --> 01:30:23
			they say that human beings are originally black.
		
01:30:23 --> 01:30:24
			Yeah. Yeah.
		
01:30:24 --> 01:30:26
			Because, Adam is literally
		
01:30:27 --> 01:30:30
			a a a a. It's like some topsoil.
		
01:30:30 --> 01:30:31
			Yeah. Right?
		
01:30:35 --> 01:30:37
			So Adam and Shadid is an intensifier,
		
01:30:37 --> 01:30:39
			and is what's called the of
		
01:30:40 --> 01:30:41
			of of Adam.
		
01:30:42 --> 01:30:44
			So it is he was brown
		
01:30:45 --> 01:30:46
			that was intensified
		
01:30:47 --> 01:30:49
			upon darker brown. So basically,
		
01:30:50 --> 01:30:52
			is described as being like the color of,
		
01:30:52 --> 01:30:53
			like, dark chocolate.
		
01:30:53 --> 01:30:54
			Now,
		
01:30:57 --> 01:30:59
			the Ethiopian is described as.
		
01:31:01 --> 01:31:02
			So
		
01:31:03 --> 01:31:05
			is described as the same skin color
		
01:31:05 --> 01:31:07
			or let me say it reverse. Reverse.
		
01:31:08 --> 01:31:10
			Is described as the same skin color.
		
01:31:11 --> 01:31:12
			At
		
01:31:12 --> 01:31:14
			the lightest, you'll see,
		
01:31:15 --> 01:31:15
			Sinha,
		
01:31:16 --> 01:31:17
			Ali
		
01:31:18 --> 01:31:19
			described as closer
		
01:31:20 --> 01:31:23
			to El Odumayr, which still means dark brown.
		
01:31:23 --> 01:31:23
			So maybe
		
01:31:24 --> 01:31:27
			so at the least, he was like this.
		
01:31:27 --> 01:31:28
			Right? He's.
		
01:31:28 --> 01:31:30
			Right? Either way, Oh, wrong way.
		
01:31:32 --> 01:31:35
			Oh, wrong way. Wrong way. Yeah. Man, I
		
01:31:35 --> 01:31:37
			just came back from California.
		
01:31:37 --> 01:31:39
			I can get up here and see. Chaitan
		
01:31:39 --> 01:31:41
			puts this stuff up in here. You know,
		
01:31:41 --> 01:31:43
			even even, like, the black nationalist rhetoric talk
		
01:31:43 --> 01:31:45
			about the Afro Asiatic black man. You know,
		
01:31:45 --> 01:31:47
			like Yeah. We we in this together. Anyway,
		
01:31:47 --> 01:31:49
			go on. Right. Yeah. So that's
		
01:31:50 --> 01:31:52
			that's that's one example. Right?
		
01:31:53 --> 01:31:53
			So
		
01:31:53 --> 01:31:55
			he would be phenotypically
		
01:31:55 --> 01:31:57
			seen as a black
		
01:31:58 --> 01:32:00
			Albert. Now one of the also interesting And
		
01:32:00 --> 01:32:02
			there are people in this world who, like,
		
01:32:02 --> 01:32:04
			are having heart attacks and grabbing their ears
		
01:32:04 --> 01:32:05
			and, like, you know, pronouncing that fear that
		
01:32:05 --> 01:32:07
			how dare you say, was
		
01:32:07 --> 01:32:08
			black.
		
01:32:08 --> 01:32:09
			What's wrong with that?
		
01:32:10 --> 01:32:12
			Yeah. What's wrong with it? And he was.
		
01:32:12 --> 01:32:13
			Now, you know, like, deal with it. Yeah.
		
01:32:13 --> 01:32:15
			Deal with it. Right. The the the the
		
01:32:15 --> 01:32:17
			other issue is that,
		
01:32:20 --> 01:32:22
			that, that if we look back his lineage,
		
01:32:22 --> 01:32:25
			even even though he mentioned this in his,
		
01:32:25 --> 01:32:27
			book that's called, 10 World.
		
01:32:28 --> 01:32:30
			He is trying to illuminate the ignorance as
		
01:32:30 --> 01:32:33
			it relates to the blacks and the Abyssinians.
		
01:32:33 --> 01:32:37
			Right? He's trying to clarify that. So Ibn
		
01:32:37 --> 01:32:38
			O'Jelozi wrote
		
01:32:38 --> 01:32:39
			that
		
01:32:40 --> 01:32:42
			the the lineage he mentions
		
01:32:42 --> 01:32:43
			Arab normal
		
01:32:44 --> 01:32:45
			Arab nobles
		
01:32:45 --> 01:32:46
			with Abyssinian
		
01:32:47 --> 01:32:48
			maternal lineage.
		
01:32:48 --> 01:32:49
			So
		
01:32:50 --> 01:32:51
			the mother of Nufayo,
		
01:32:52 --> 01:32:55
			who is the grandfather of Omar Elokotab
		
01:32:55 --> 01:32:56
			Mhmm. Was
		
01:32:57 --> 01:32:57
			Habashia,
		
01:32:58 --> 01:32:59
			was African, Ethiopian.
		
01:33:00 --> 01:33:00
			Okay.
		
01:33:01 --> 01:33:04
			Then Which is, by the way, according to
		
01:33:04 --> 01:33:06
			American racial standards, he was black. He was
		
01:33:06 --> 01:33:09
			black. Omar was black. According to, like, racial
		
01:33:09 --> 01:33:10
			standards that were used for Jim Crow and
		
01:33:10 --> 01:33:12
			whatever, said Omar Elihuahu by that is is
		
01:33:12 --> 01:33:14
			black. Right. Then
		
01:33:15 --> 01:33:16
			his grandmother
		
01:33:18 --> 01:33:21
			was also black. So saying Omar
		
01:33:21 --> 01:33:22
			al Khattab,
		
01:33:23 --> 01:33:23
			his
		
01:33:24 --> 01:33:25
			great
		
01:33:25 --> 01:33:26
			grandmother
		
01:33:26 --> 01:33:28
			and grandmother
		
01:33:28 --> 01:33:29
			were African.
		
01:33:29 --> 01:33:30
			But now
		
01:33:31 --> 01:33:33
			what but he was still from Quraish because,
		
01:33:33 --> 01:33:36
			see, the Arabs didn't have this weird
		
01:33:36 --> 01:33:38
			racial construct like like like the the white
		
01:33:38 --> 01:33:41
			supremacists in America. Because, see, our so called
		
01:33:41 --> 01:33:42
			founding fathers,
		
01:33:42 --> 01:33:42
			they
		
01:33:43 --> 01:33:43
			gave,
		
01:33:45 --> 01:33:48
			they had children from enslaved black women,
		
01:33:48 --> 01:33:50
			but their children were considered
		
01:33:50 --> 01:33:51
			black.
		
01:33:52 --> 01:33:54
			They couldn't inherit from their fathers. And even
		
01:33:54 --> 01:33:56
			like that miscreant Thomas Jefferson
		
01:33:56 --> 01:33:57
			kept his children
		
01:33:58 --> 01:33:59
			in slavery
		
01:34:00 --> 01:34:01
			while he was alive. And there there was
		
01:34:01 --> 01:34:03
			no concept of, like, you give birth and
		
01:34:03 --> 01:34:06
			you're free. When when Thomas Jefferson died,
		
01:34:07 --> 01:34:09
			Sally Hemmons, who he had children by, was
		
01:34:09 --> 01:34:11
			sold off to another family. Oh, really? So,
		
01:34:11 --> 01:34:13
			like, so, like but
		
01:34:13 --> 01:34:16
			Omar had Abyssinian blood, but he was still
		
01:34:16 --> 01:34:17
			seen as an Arab
		
01:34:17 --> 01:34:19
			noble. Right? So just because,
		
01:34:20 --> 01:34:21
			you know,
		
01:34:21 --> 01:34:24
			he didn't lose his position in his tribe
		
01:34:24 --> 01:34:27
			because of his skin color or because
		
01:34:27 --> 01:34:28
			he had,
		
01:34:29 --> 01:34:30
			this African
		
01:34:31 --> 01:34:31
			lineage.
		
01:34:32 --> 01:34:34
			So it's it's it's a totally different paradigm
		
01:34:35 --> 01:34:35
			from the paradigm
		
01:34:36 --> 01:34:37
			of the of the European,
		
01:34:39 --> 01:34:41
			colonialists and and what they did,
		
01:34:41 --> 01:34:44
			stretching from the Congo and that devil,
		
01:34:45 --> 01:34:46
			King Leopold
		
01:34:46 --> 01:34:49
			to what the so called founding father, Shiatim,
		
01:34:49 --> 01:34:50
			did here
		
01:34:50 --> 01:34:53
			in America. Right? It's a totally different paradigm.
		
01:34:53 --> 01:34:55
			So I mean, like, it's, you know, you
		
01:34:55 --> 01:34:57
			can name the highway after them. You can
		
01:34:57 --> 01:34:59
			name you can, like, make a statue. You
		
01:34:59 --> 01:35:00
			say that it was about Virginia, but at
		
01:35:00 --> 01:35:01
			the end of the day, you know, like,
		
01:35:01 --> 01:35:03
			if if you do the devil's work, then
		
01:35:03 --> 01:35:04
			what are people gonna call you? You know?
		
01:35:04 --> 01:35:07
			Like Right. Yeah. So that's just a little
		
01:35:07 --> 01:35:08
			bit so you can get the book and
		
01:35:08 --> 01:35:10
			I'm I have something right now with the
		
01:35:10 --> 01:35:12
			editor right now. There's
		
01:35:12 --> 01:35:14
			another book guy I wrote,
		
01:35:14 --> 01:35:16
			solo that's coming out. It's with the,
		
01:35:17 --> 01:35:20
			it's with it's being added as we speak
		
01:35:20 --> 01:35:21
			with the publisher in the UK.
		
01:35:22 --> 01:35:24
			And it's gonna be called,
		
01:35:24 --> 01:35:27
			titled blackness in Islam, in which we are
		
01:35:27 --> 01:35:28
			going through this
		
01:35:28 --> 01:35:31
			further, but it's also gonna be answering some
		
01:35:31 --> 01:35:32
			of the questions
		
01:35:33 --> 01:35:36
			about from the orientalist, including the black orientalist
		
01:35:36 --> 01:35:37
			because they've taken certain
		
01:35:39 --> 01:35:40
			hadith and misconstrued them to try to say,
		
01:35:40 --> 01:35:41
			well,
		
01:35:41 --> 01:35:44
			Islam is anti black. Like for instance, the
		
01:35:44 --> 01:35:45
			hadith that we have that,
		
01:35:46 --> 01:35:47
			hear and obey the leader
		
01:35:47 --> 01:35:49
			even if he is,
		
01:35:49 --> 01:35:50
			an Abyssinian
		
01:35:51 --> 01:35:53
			with the with the head, the Zebibah. Like,
		
01:35:53 --> 01:35:55
			he's a raisin head. Right? So they They're
		
01:35:55 --> 01:35:57
			shrewd operation. Yeah. Yeah. So they've taken this
		
01:35:57 --> 01:35:58
			they've taken this hadith
		
01:35:59 --> 01:36:00
			or or some,
		
01:36:01 --> 01:36:01
			fabricated,
		
01:36:02 --> 01:36:04
			sayings and some of these,
		
01:36:05 --> 01:36:06
			books like,
		
01:36:06 --> 01:36:07
			and some of these things like,
		
01:36:08 --> 01:36:11
			don't marry a a a beware of marrying
		
01:36:11 --> 01:36:13
			a zen. At least your children will come
		
01:36:13 --> 01:36:14
			out deformed
		
01:36:15 --> 01:36:17
			in all of, like, this fabricated,
		
01:36:18 --> 01:36:18
			foolishness,
		
01:36:19 --> 01:36:21
			that that they Do you have a possibility
		
01:36:21 --> 01:36:24
			of your children coming out actually, like, probably
		
01:36:24 --> 01:36:25
			superior.
		
01:36:25 --> 01:36:26
			Yeah.
		
01:36:26 --> 01:36:29
			So so so, anyway, so, anyway, this this
		
01:36:29 --> 01:36:31
			book will be dealing with some of these
		
01:36:32 --> 01:36:33
			with some of these,
		
01:36:33 --> 01:36:36
			things clarifying certain things that We're shooting out
		
01:36:36 --> 01:36:38
			stuff. This is made up. Well, yeah. Well,
		
01:36:38 --> 01:36:40
			first is the the clips was something orientalists
		
01:36:41 --> 01:36:41
			have,
		
01:36:43 --> 01:36:43
			intentionally
		
01:36:44 --> 01:36:47
			misinterpreted because we have our our our scholars
		
01:36:49 --> 01:36:51
			like and others have have explained,
		
01:36:51 --> 01:36:52
			some of these traditions.
		
01:36:53 --> 01:36:54
			But then also some things that are completely
		
01:36:54 --> 01:36:55
			like
		
01:36:56 --> 01:36:57
			like,
		
01:36:57 --> 01:36:58
			for instance, fabrications,
		
01:36:59 --> 01:37:00
			versus his book,
		
01:37:02 --> 01:37:04
			he he, like, mentioned all of, like,
		
01:37:04 --> 01:37:05
			these anti black,
		
01:37:06 --> 01:37:08
			like, hadith. They are sheer total
		
01:37:09 --> 01:37:09
			fabrications,
		
01:37:11 --> 01:37:12
			and about the Zeng. And all these things
		
01:37:12 --> 01:37:15
			are political ring to the, to the Abbasids
		
01:37:16 --> 01:37:18
			in some of the the fitment that took
		
01:37:18 --> 01:37:21
			place during the the the Abbasid era and
		
01:37:21 --> 01:37:23
			and El Mahmoon and that's a whole other
		
01:37:23 --> 01:37:26
			discussion about the fitness of the Abbasids and
		
01:37:26 --> 01:37:28
			El Mahmoon and all that all of that
		
01:37:28 --> 01:37:28
			type of,
		
01:37:28 --> 01:37:30
			talk. So I'll leave it at that. So
		
01:37:30 --> 01:37:32
			inshallah, that should be out by November So
		
01:37:32 --> 01:37:33
			so that book. That book is gonna be
		
01:37:33 --> 01:37:35
			out in November. In November, inshallah. This book,
		
01:37:35 --> 01:37:37
			The Century Black Narrative Could be found on
		
01:37:37 --> 01:37:39
			amazon.com. How much how much is it usually
		
01:37:39 --> 01:37:41
			around ballpark? $20.
		
01:37:41 --> 01:37:43
			$20. It's not gonna break the bank. Buy
		
01:37:43 --> 01:37:45
			it. And don't just say, like, oh, I'm
		
01:37:45 --> 01:37:46
			not black. I'm not gonna buy it. If
		
01:37:46 --> 01:37:48
			you're if you're Shia and you say that
		
01:37:48 --> 01:37:49
			Ali is your imam,
		
01:37:50 --> 01:37:52
			do you love Ali, or do you love
		
01:37:52 --> 01:37:54
			whatever weird, like, a fantasm you have in
		
01:37:54 --> 01:37:55
			your head? Teach your children about him so
		
01:37:55 --> 01:37:57
			that they can know who who is this
		
01:37:57 --> 01:37:59
			great Imam al Adhan al Beit. Actually, they
		
01:37:59 --> 01:37:59
			were
		
01:38:00 --> 01:38:01
			They were the ones who made the the
		
01:38:01 --> 01:38:04
			biggest issue about us talking about saying Ali
		
01:38:04 --> 01:38:06
			being black, by the way. But if you're
		
01:38:06 --> 01:38:08
			if you're if you're if you're sincere if
		
01:38:08 --> 01:38:09
			you're sincere in your love, know who he
		
01:38:09 --> 01:38:11
			is. Right? Yeah. If you're a Sunni, if
		
01:38:11 --> 01:38:13
			you you know, our we I'm like, I
		
01:38:13 --> 01:38:13
			I don't think anybody here is has makes
		
01:38:13 --> 01:38:13
			any compunction about, you know, following the way
		
01:38:13 --> 01:38:14
			of the
		
01:38:14 --> 01:38:16
			anybody here is has makes any compunction about,
		
01:38:16 --> 01:38:17
			you know, following the way of the sunnah,
		
01:38:17 --> 01:38:18
			and the. The companions or the
		
01:38:22 --> 01:38:25
			are the transmitters of the deen. If you
		
01:38:25 --> 01:38:27
			don't love the companions, you're not you're, you
		
01:38:27 --> 01:38:29
			know, you're not in that tradition. You're kind
		
01:38:29 --> 01:38:31
			of freestyling out on your own. Mhmm. Know
		
01:38:31 --> 01:38:32
			who the companions are.
		
01:38:32 --> 01:38:34
			Don't try to project what you want them
		
01:38:34 --> 01:38:35
			to be. You know? You know, people like
		
01:38:35 --> 01:38:37
			I I have that's my own truth. You
		
01:38:37 --> 01:38:38
			don't get your own truth, and you don't
		
01:38:38 --> 01:38:40
			get to make up your own, like, companions.
		
01:38:40 --> 01:38:41
			It's not like
		
01:38:41 --> 01:38:42
			Burger King where you can ask people to
		
01:38:42 --> 01:38:44
			hold pickles or whatever. You know, like, you
		
01:38:44 --> 01:38:45
			gotta know who they are.
		
01:38:45 --> 01:38:47
			Teach it to your children as well so
		
01:38:47 --> 01:38:49
			that they don't have doesn't get into their
		
01:38:49 --> 01:38:50
			head and and, like, you know,
		
01:38:53 --> 01:38:54
			befoul and pollute the,
		
01:38:55 --> 01:38:57
			the the purity of what is the
		
01:38:57 --> 01:38:59
			This is the the the protection of our
		
01:38:59 --> 01:39:02
			and and being connected with these people. Right.
		
01:39:03 --> 01:39:05
			Whatever your color is, and read it to
		
01:39:05 --> 01:39:07
			the children too before these, like, you know,
		
01:39:07 --> 01:39:10
			polluters come in like befou, like what should
		
01:39:10 --> 01:39:11
			be pure in their minds. What are the
		
01:39:11 --> 01:39:13
			point? What,
		
01:39:13 --> 01:39:16
			how different would the paradigm be if our
		
01:39:16 --> 01:39:18
			children were being taught at a young age
		
01:39:18 --> 01:39:21
			that the first martyr of Moses Sahaba, may
		
01:39:21 --> 01:39:23
			Allah be well pleased with him, was
		
01:39:23 --> 01:39:24
			was Sumayya
		
01:39:25 --> 01:39:26
			Omar Yeah. Who
		
01:39:27 --> 01:39:29
			was described as being a black woman. She's
		
01:39:29 --> 01:39:32
			an African woman? Yeah. How would that change
		
01:39:32 --> 01:39:33
			the thing that the first person
		
01:39:34 --> 01:39:35
			that gave
		
01:39:35 --> 01:39:38
			their life for this dean, for this noble
		
01:39:38 --> 01:39:41
			path that we tread was a black woman.
		
01:39:41 --> 01:39:43
			There's so many, like, now that you mentioned
		
01:39:43 --> 01:39:43
			it, like,
		
01:39:44 --> 01:39:47
			Osama bin Zayed. Osama bin Zayed. His mother.
		
01:39:47 --> 01:39:48
			Okay.
		
01:39:49 --> 01:39:51
			There's just so much. And it doesn't mean,
		
01:39:51 --> 01:39:52
			like, you know, if you're not white, you're,
		
01:39:52 --> 01:39:53
			like, some or if you're white, there's something
		
01:39:53 --> 01:39:55
			wrong with you. Or if you're not black,
		
01:39:55 --> 01:39:56
			something wrong with you or whatever. I mean,
		
01:39:56 --> 01:39:58
			we just, mashaAllah, I just gave a talk
		
01:39:58 --> 01:39:59
			the other day about the return of Sinai,
		
01:39:59 --> 01:40:01
			alayhis salam. It's I'll be very honest with
		
01:40:01 --> 01:40:03
			you. Like, we have, like, white Jesus, black
		
01:40:03 --> 01:40:04
			Jesus. The Rasulullah
		
01:40:05 --> 01:40:06
			described him as being,
		
01:40:07 --> 01:40:08
			white with,
		
01:40:08 --> 01:40:11
			redness in his his skin. That's the beauty
		
01:40:11 --> 01:40:12
			about the Deen is that whoever you are,
		
01:40:12 --> 01:40:14
			there is something that you can see of
		
01:40:14 --> 01:40:17
			yourself in it. Right? And that's okay. We
		
01:40:17 --> 01:40:19
			should we should we need to learn that
		
01:40:19 --> 01:40:20
			in, like, you know, and there should be
		
01:40:20 --> 01:40:23
			this idea that it's all beautiful, the equality
		
01:40:23 --> 01:40:25
			of beauty, and not one in which some
		
01:40:25 --> 01:40:26
			are more equal than others or whatever. But,
		
01:40:26 --> 01:40:28
			like, we should just genuinely imbibe this. So
		
01:40:28 --> 01:40:29
			get the book, inshallah,
		
01:40:30 --> 01:40:33
			support, a good work to continue be being
		
01:40:33 --> 01:40:35
			put out. Is there anybody else who would
		
01:40:35 --> 01:40:36
			like to No.
		
01:40:36 --> 01:40:37
			Can you please
		
01:40:38 --> 01:40:38
			end this?
		
01:40:39 --> 01:40:41
			Your travelers. No. The dua
		
01:40:41 --> 01:40:44
			dua a lot of travelers, mister Jab.
		
01:42:29 --> 01:42:30
			You Allah forgive us all of our sins
		
01:42:30 --> 01:42:33
			on our except our having left our homes,
		
01:42:33 --> 01:42:34
			to meet our brothers in the path of
		
01:42:34 --> 01:42:36
			Allah ta'ala and to say a word of
		
01:42:36 --> 01:42:38
			truth and to say a word of goodness
		
01:42:38 --> 01:42:40
			in order that we may hear it ourselves
		
01:42:40 --> 01:42:42
			and benefit and that other people may benefit
		
01:42:42 --> 01:42:44
			as well, you Allah. You Allah reward our
		
01:42:44 --> 01:42:45
			honored Imam Dawood Walid,
		
01:42:46 --> 01:42:48
			for hosting us in such a beautiful way
		
01:42:48 --> 01:42:50
			and sharing with us, such beautiful things. You
		
01:42:50 --> 01:42:51
			Allah, whoever
		
01:42:52 --> 01:42:54
			participated in the Brothers O'Hare is helping us
		
01:42:54 --> 01:42:57
			record the ICC game, but we're using their
		
01:42:57 --> 01:43:00
			equipment. Brother Shafi, we're using his equipment.
		
01:43:00 --> 01:43:01
			You know, whoever
		
01:43:01 --> 01:43:04
			listens to this podcast and spreads it and
		
01:43:04 --> 01:43:04
			whoever
		
01:43:04 --> 01:43:06
			benefits from it, all of them, all of
		
01:43:06 --> 01:43:08
			us, you Allah, who has any participation in
		
01:43:08 --> 01:43:10
			it whatsoever, you Allah. Forgive us all of
		
01:43:10 --> 01:43:12
			our sins and write for us a good
		
01:43:12 --> 01:43:15
			destiny and protect us from the and from
		
01:43:15 --> 01:43:17
			the trials and tribulations of this world and
		
01:43:17 --> 01:43:18
			from the hate of the haters and from
		
01:43:18 --> 01:43:20
			the evil of the evil ones, you Allah.
		
01:43:20 --> 01:43:22
			Make us such that that that that you
		
01:43:22 --> 01:43:24
			reform us such a reformation that even everything
		
01:43:24 --> 01:43:26
			we touch also becomes reform through through the
		
01:43:26 --> 01:43:29
			barakah of your your father, You Allah. You
		
01:43:29 --> 01:43:31
			Allah, accept this from us and give us
		
01:43:31 --> 01:43:32
			a a a a
		
01:43:33 --> 01:43:35
			a better life whatever's left in front of
		
01:43:35 --> 01:43:36
			us and make the best part of our
		
01:43:36 --> 01:43:38
			life the part that's yet yet to come
		
01:43:38 --> 01:43:40
			and make the our best moments, our last
		
01:43:40 --> 01:43:42
			moments, and our best words, our last words
		
01:43:42 --> 01:43:43
			and
		
01:43:44 --> 01:43:44
			make
		
01:43:45 --> 01:43:45
			them.
		
01:43:46 --> 01:43:47
			And
		
01:43:48 --> 01:43:50
			accept it from us and give this and
		
01:43:50 --> 01:43:52
			this happiness also to our our
		
01:43:52 --> 01:43:54
			our family and our loved ones,
		
01:43:54 --> 01:43:56
			and our neighbors and our friends and those
		
01:43:56 --> 01:43:58
			who helped us and those who spoke good
		
01:43:58 --> 01:44:00
			of us and those who wished us well
		
01:44:00 --> 01:44:01
			and did good by us, and and also
		
01:44:01 --> 01:44:03
			those who spoke ill of us and did
		
01:44:03 --> 01:44:05
			poorly by us from our friends and neighbors,
		
01:44:05 --> 01:44:08
			you give us all the to be guided
		
01:44:08 --> 01:44:10
			and to live and die by, Islam and
		
01:44:10 --> 01:44:12
			by Iman and accepted from us in this
		
01:44:12 --> 01:44:13
			world and the hereafter.