A Muslim who Hated religion

			Peace be with you. Welcome to the D show. Subscribe if you haven't already my next guests didn't
want to have anything to do with religion turned away from religion is variously until someone came
preaching to him about religion, and not about Islam actually called him to believe in Jesus as your
Lord and Savior. And this was a Christian giving him Dawa. And then he came back to Islam. You also
know his brother who was used to being a pop, pop punk rock band. I got a surprise for you with my
next guest. Here on the D show, don't go anywhere.
		

			So I'll make a Peace be with you.
		

			Now the surprise was is not many have watched the show we did from punk rock to Islam, people, Lacey
tasleem is actually not sad, but for her. That's right. As you saw his brother, yes. That's my older
brother. Older brother. Yes, that's right. So you still look down on people of religion or used to
turn away from religion and and won't have anything to do with religion? Yeah, there was a point
where, especially after college, around my college age, I didn't want anything to do with people of
religion. If I saw someone, you know, with a beard or anything like that, I just feel like, I need
to stay away from this person, they're probably crazy. They're going to tell me to do things I
		

			probably don't want to do. And so I just kind of looked down upon people. And that's where I was
until, like, my first job. Even right now, many people when you say religion, a lot of people want
to tune out because they think they're going to hear some weird, right, like mystical esoteric, he
is something that is not comprehendible. But, uh, why is it now like, and that's pretty typical
people in the universities, you know, imitating the professors, you know, one professor went towards
atheism to justify, you know, whatever he was doing, someone else followed along. And that's like,
the cool thing. Absolutely. When we talk about religion, not cool. Well, what's up with that? Well,
		

			I mean, that has, you know, that has, I would say, has historical precedence. I mean, when you look
at, when you do any sort of a study of let's say, like the history of science, for instance, you'll
see that there was a certain time in Europe when there was this kind of, you know, back and forth
between religion and science. And a lot of that is kind of stuck, and that has permeated down come
down to us today. We're culturally, it just, it's not, you know, it's not very cool or not very cool
to be religious anymore. Because religion is kind of tied to being ignorant in a way, but a lot of
that is a throwback to Europe. And, you know, some of the issues that were, you know, that they that
		

			the West specifically dealt with in Europe at that time. I think Islam is the coolest thing. Yeah, I
agree. I mean, it's now now I agree, it's, it's rational is logical. It has it provides all of the I
mean, look, we're gonna die, you know, we're gonna leave all of this entertainment and all of these
things of the of the world behind. Sure. So I mean, there's got to be something more, I mean, then
then just play an amusement and Islam answers all those questions that are really in the mind. Yeah.
I mean, obviously, you found out the same thing. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, going back to
the, to the lady, my manager, actually, she came up to me and, you know, she said, You know, you're
		

			Muslim, and I was like, yeah, Muslim, I don't really practice much. And then she started preaching
to me about, you know, Christianity and loving Jesus and all these things. And then she's like, you
know, he was a son of God. And, and, you know, at the time, I didn't really know much about Islam,
but I knew that what she was saying was, it didn't really make sense to me at all. I mean, what she
was saying didn't really make sense. But that's when I actually started studying Islam and when I
started studying, studying Islam, you know, I just kind of fell in love with it. And it was kind of
no stopping after that point. Now you have everyone for instance someone of the Christian faith,
		

			they will tell you Okay, believe in Jesus your Lord and Savior and then you have a ticket to
paradise sir. Okay, that's one worldview sure and unintelligent person he would want to examine you
know, the different claims that are out there what's the atheist claim like after because we die?
And then so Islam is saying okay, after you die and to me when I investigated all the different
world religions there's got to be one that's not counterfeit. This not man made that is from the
Creator. Sure. And it's got to be based on proof it's got to be authentic it has to make sense also
right and Islam answered all those questions that after I leave this world is short world because
		

			people are dying right now as we speak Sure. You're not guaranteed tomorrow. So what what does
before I get into this what what does the the atheist what's what's his answer to after we leave
this life? Well, what's really interesting is that there's no
		

			You know, when you look, when you dig really deep into atheism, you You really don't find like like
a pure atheist, what you would have is maybe an extreme agnostic at best, because there is no you
can, you can say like positive case, to affirm the non existence of God. Like you can positively say
that, what you can say is you can critique religion, you can critique, you know, people that believe
in God or whatever it may be, but for you to form a positive case, it's just not there, you know,
and one of the things that I found really interesting is one of the ideas in the Koran one of the
one of the verses in the Quran, where Allah addresses atheism, right? And the Arabic goes something
		

			like I'm calling communists, Lady Shay, I'm home on holophone I'm Holocaust sama, what you will or
LA you can own that word they create from nothing? Or did they create themselves? Or did they create
the heavens in the earth? No, rather, they are uncertain. What I thought was interesting, aside from
the argument itself, was the fact that Allah God uses the term uncertain, in the sense that it's not
that they don't know otherwise, God would have said, law, yada moon, they don't know. But law, you
know, they're not certain. So atheism, it doesn't lead to a position of certainty, you can't be an
absolute atheist and sense that, you know, for a fact that God doesn't exist. So, I mean, with the
		

			atheist narrative, you're never going to get a position of certainty, by any means. Now, what would
you consider? You said, You're a Muslim, many people can relate to this. They're in the
universities, you know, focusing on the degree, and parents didn't really connect them with their
Creator. They went through some traditions, the movements didn't really know what they were saying.
So but if you ask them to put down paper Muslim, but you we know, Muslim is one who surrenders
constantly to the will of God, what? How would you have classified yourself at that time? Oh, you
mean, before I met my man, and all that? Yeah. Would you say I was a part time was, I was, you know,
		

			probably a part time Muslim, maybe? Maybe a job? Almost? What would you say? Maybe a pseudo Juma
Muslim? That's what you call me? Oh, these are these terms are fake terms. Of course, of course. So
yeah, we I would go for gym, you know, once in a while, because maybe my friends were going, you
know, and I had Muslim friends. And so they would be going for for Gemma. And I would say, Okay,
well, I'll tag along, you know, not not for the sermon, of course, just for the prayer, because you
wanted to get only the prayer. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, that's kind of where I was, religiously, there
wasn't really much there. I mean, I you can say, I believe in the existence of God. But beyond that,
		

			it was just, I just don't have any to do with religion. We know that one point, Islam was the
superpower of the world, you can not only run the world with this, you can run your family, your own
individual life. And at the end, there's a promise that if you live a peaceful life,
		

			with your Creator, you do the things that he's told you to do. upright human being according to the
guidance that God has sent, that there's a promise now of a great reward. And then you all you look
at all the evidences and at the end, Islam helps you to Excel to be the best, right? So let's say
you live life as an atheist, you end up dying at the end, if it's not true, nothing if we die, we
don't you know, that's it. It's the end. But the on the other side here, you live in this life, it's
helping you to become the best Sure. You know, there's there's a complete blueprint to live by. And
at the end, here, you have a lot to lose. If you're an atheist, and all this is true. And you're and
		

			you're doing. You're you're you're being lazy and not really sincerely investigating this as your
again, your whole salvation is I mean, at the end, is at the end, it's just finished dying. Yeah.
You know, I remember, someone once said that, look, the atheist position is really interesting.
Because it's three, nothing's come from nothing. Your purpose in life is nothing. And your end is
nothing. So it's nothing and just a whole bunch of nothing.
		

			You know, it's just mind boggling, Rhuddlan? That. I just can't wrap my mind around it. But I think
that because with belief comes responsibility. Absolutely. So do you think most people now because
they don't want to? Because if you believe in a creator, you're going to have to back this up with
some other apps obligation? Absolutely. No, I mean, absolutely. It comes with responsibility. But I
think maybe that may be one of the perhaps one of the impediments for people considering religion at
all right? If they consider religion, well, then I may have something to do or some sort of
obligation. And you know what, I don't want to do it right now. Right now I just want to party, live
		

			it up. And you know, maybe when I get old Sure, I'll consider being a religious person, or, you
know, consider God even. But for right now, I'm just going to go with what's, you know, what's in
vogue. And of course, what's in vogue is to not believe in God or just, you know, to be an atheist
or whatever it may be. So I'm just gonna live my life like that for now. And when it comes down to
the end, then we'll figure it out at that point. But we have a lot more to talk about when we
mentioned the rock band, your we talked about now someone actually Christian talking to you about
Jesus that kind of triggered you to get back into religion. And I keep saying evidence, evidence
		

			evidence, right, right. So we have a lot to talk about. Don't go anywhere right back here on the
deen show. Please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and Twitter pages in the
links below. Please also help support the show by making
		

			a donation in the link below.
		

			Back here on the D show. Okay, so continue on with the story. You're kind of you said a pseudo Juma
Muslim, right? Yeah. So I was a pseudo GMO Muslim. You know, I then I graduated from college, I got
my first job. And I run into this, you know, this manager of mine, she's pushing Christianity down
my throat, practically Russian, say down my throat. But you know, she was pushing me to become
Christian or consider Christianity. And I just at the time, it didn't, it didn't. It didn't make any
sense. You know, what she was telling me Jesus died for your sins. You know, one thing that I I
remember having a conversation with someone I said, Look, if if Jesus died for my sins, and is it a
		

			sin to not not believe that He died for my sin? And the person said, Yeah, I said, so I'm good,
right? Because he died for my sins. And that's a sin. So I don't have to worry about it. So anyway,
but it just it didn't really, it didn't really resonate with me at all, you know, and then that's
when I started to explore Islam. It made sense. It, you know, just the the things that I was dealing
with in terms of whether it was personally, spiritually socially, even economically, things I was
doing with my life, and it just started answering questions, you know, from one end to the other. So
amazing. Tell us rock band, who was it? And it now says your brother? Are you the lead person in the
		

			rock band? I have nothing. I had nothing to do with a rock band. So just a brother. That was just
that was all him? Yeah. Okay. But you this story that we did with your brother, you were the one
helping to get him out from this lifestyle? Well, of course, first and foremost, it was a law that
took him out of the lifestyle, you know. But yeah, you know, we would have kind of spirited
conversations, especially when he was in the rock band, kind of what he was doing. And, you know,
the fact that he was in a rock band, and you know, we'd go back and forth, you know, as brothers do.
You know, brothers might typically argue about who gets the top bunk or whatever it is, and we would
		

			have kind of spirited conversations about religion, the purpose of life, and you know, all of that
and where we're going and where we're gonna end up and all of that. So someone says, Look, they just
heard rock band. So what's wrong? I like rock music. YOLO you only live once?
		

			Well, here's the thing. I mean,
		

			sure, I mean, there's a lot of things that people like, but just because you like something, doesn't
mean it's always necessarily good for you. Second point is, doesn't mean you necessarily know what's
good for you, and what's not good for you in kind of this broad idea, right? You know, reading the
Quran, for instance, Allah says, will love ooyala mo, one to Allah moon, that Allah knows, God
knows. And you don't write in another verse, Allah says, Well, my ot told me that kalila, we've
given you a little bit of knowledge, right? This little bit of knowledge, God knows the entirety. So
with this little knowledge, we always make decisions, we get angry, based on this little bit of
		

			knowledge, we, you know, we're rash, we're impatient. And all this is based on this little bit of
knowledge. So if I was to say, look, there's something that's not good for you. And you say, Well,
that doesn't make any sense. Well, Where's it coming from? It's coming from someone that has
knowledge that is vast that is infinite, versus us, when we have this just a speck of knowledge. And
we're making decisions based upon that. Does it make more sense to go with that, which has infinite
knowledge? Or to trust yourself on each occasion? Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. You have drug
addicts, they love drugs. Yeah. But it's definitely not good. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, the
		

			criminals, a lot of them, like stealing many of them. And it's not actually good for them or
society. So the creator knows exactly what's good. Exactly. Yeah. A lot of time you don't like
working out, but it's good for you. And you know, that's the example I give a lot of people do you
want a six pack? Right, right now you have to go through pain to get your six pack. But in the end,
the result is good. Right? You look good. So So I mean, how under the line, this is a great thing,
because you never know when those good pieces, those good words, good advice will pay off those good
seeds that you planted, obviously, by the permission of the Creator, the heavens and earth, they
		

			sprouted, and your brother actually went on to study? Absolutely, absolutely. Dini University, and
so much good came out of it. I'm dead. 100 alive. So tell us now I mentioned evidence. Right, right.
Yeah, many religions is just about blind faith, just believe us. True. You you you start talking
about religion. And you know, you get into some very important questions authenticity here. And you
see that their arguments fall apart. Do you have a book? That's, that's not authentic? But Islam is
different. Islam? Absolutely. I'll be just saying that your bias now because you're Muslim? Well,
no, I mean, yeah, I mean, definitely, there is a slight bias there. But, you know, Islam, one of the
		

			things that I really find beautiful about Islam is that it's, it's, it's rational, and it's natural
as well. And when I say that, now, I'll give you an example. What I mean, you know, the other day, I
was at a machine and the amount of the machine they asked me to speak to a young woman who was was
Christian, and she came in and you know, she had certain contentions, and I said, Look, let's just
stop for a second. I want to ask you, when you give charity, how do you feel? And she said, I feel
great. I said, Look, in Islam, we have a concept of the natural state called the fitrah. And we
believe that every human being is good.
		

			You are and you are born in a state of goodness, in Christianity, you believe in the original sin.
When you give charity, you should feel rotten. And she was like, that actually makes sense. And at
the end, she actually became Muslim. So yeah, so I mean, it's it's natural, and it's rational. So
what's more fascinating is when you say she became Muslim, she didn't leave the love of Jesus. Oh,
no, she didn't practice Islam, and he was a Muslim. Absolutely clarify that, please. Well, I mean,
when you know, when you when you speak to Christians, and one of the things that we always tell
them, we say, look, it's not you're not leaving the religion of Jesus, you are actually adopting the
		

			path of Jesus, like how he worshipped his creator, and you're following Jesus, the best you possibly
can, if he returned today, he would recognize you. He would see people prostrating, he would see
people worshiping God worshiping the person that the worst being the being that he's worshiping, and
you would be along with him. So you would be more Christ like then perhaps you were before? Now, is
it true that the Quran has a challenge? challenges the reader, someone who will claim that this is
not from God, that there's things that you can do to try to disprove it? Sure. I mean, the Quran
makes the claim, you know, that if you if you feel that this is from other than God, then bring a
		

			chapter like it in one verse, it says, Bring a, you know, bring one ayah like, one verse, like in
one of the chapters Bring it on, like it. So the challenge is there, and it's been there, you know,
from the very getgo and no one's really been able to meet it. Right. And it's, it's, you know, its
challenge relates to its consistency internally and externally. Meaning when you read the Quran,
it's not like, it's gonna tell you things are just fantastic or crazy, right? There's your God is a
green alien in the sky, or whatever, that's just like, Whoa, that's crazy stuff. But when you read
the Quran, it's consistent. Like I said, it's has its basis in nature and the intellect. So when you
		

			read it, and you look outside in the world around you, it's not it's not gonna contradict something
external to the Quran, and internally, it's gonna fit as well, it's gonna let me know the
contradictions inside as well. And that's interesting. You mentioned green aliens, and all this
other stuff is most people who go away, let's say, from Islam, or the religion and I can understand
because there are a lot of these man made religions or Hocus Pocus stuff that just his way out gets
really crazy. But some of these people who agnostic atheist himself, when you start to they come at
you really rational, but when you start to, you know, really talk to them, they start talking about
		

			aliens and UFOs, and all sorts of crazy stuff.
		

			Exactly, no, absolutely. And, you know, that's kind of, you know, you know, one of the things we
talked about the natural state of the human being, one of the things about the natural state is that
the human naturally is inclined towards worship, right, naturally inclined towards worshipping, and
we would say the Creator, but when that that idea is not there, there's something else that's that
needs to be replaced. And a lot of times that those ideas that are replaced are aliens, or a
rabbit's foot, or whatever it may be. Yeah, we're gonna take a break, here on the D show. Don't go
anywhere, please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and Twitter pages in the
		

			links below. Please also help support the show by making a donation in the link below.
		

			Back here on the dean show. So Fahad, tell us that now you are in the university. And it's very
challenging, you know, you have the whole world opens up to you and reminds me of the D for the last
amount of Mr. Cinema kind of problem hum and peace be upon them. Right when he sent gibreel li
Salaam and he had showed jahannam and also paradise, right, and what was surrounding both? Sure,
right. Sure. And what was surrounding
		

			the Hellfire, where the desirable things, things that aren't good for you, but now what was
surrounding? Right. Right, it was the undesirable things, the things that are good for you now.
Right, right, right. And you see people rushing towards the things that aren't good for you and a
lot of the universities and just out there and it's hypersexual society. So, absolutely, what are
your thoughts? Well, you know, I mean, related to the Hadeeth, I mean, you know, that that, that
Paradise is is surrounded by things that are difficult to do and Hellfire is is surrounded by things
that people desire, you know, and that's, that's true. I mean, one of another Hadith that you kind
		

			of just remind me of, was where the Prophet peace be upon him. He said that this world is a prison
for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers. And I remember that there was an incident I
believe it was hustle and bustle or maybe a mount Shafi. I don't remember, but he was once riding
along and you know, he was dressed well, he looked okay. And, you know, there was an old Jewish man
who was, you know, disheveled Look, he was, you know, poor. And they know, he grabbed the reins of
hustler bacilli. And he said, you know, didn't your profits say that this world is a prison for the
believers and a paradise for the disbelievers. And he said, Yeah, he did. He goes, so how do you
		

			explain my state like I have, I'm poor. I'm disheveled. And hustle and bustle, he says to the man,
he says, when I compare my state to paradise, I'm in a present
		

			When you compare your compare your state to the Hellfire, you're in paradise right now, and the man
was so overtaken with that he basically became Muslim. So, point being I mean that that, you know,
there are things in this world that we're going to desire, no doubt about it. That's how we're
created. But at the same time, if those desires aren't kept in check, then though they can, they can
be disastrous, and especially disastrous in the long term, meaning what happens after you die? If
you don't keep your desires in check. There are serious ramifications about for that, you know, when
you when you meet your career, anything good, that's a value that you want to accomplish. You want
		

			to get a PhD, even a GED, you gotta do some studying. Absolutely. So it requires some effort, some
work, you mentioned six pack earlier, you got to work some effort. You can't do this thing on your
own. That's why out of the love of God sent this guidance, and we've talked about some of the proof
and evidence is there. And it's there for us. Now, once we determine this and not by our own
efforts, we ask the Creator, and we're sincere that he guides us. But now we got to stick to this.
We got to get to know knowledge is so important. Absolutely. And then the tools, are there
everything we need to implement and things that we need to stay away from. Yep, to become
		

			successful. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that I mean, that guidance. I mean, here's the thing, when you
think about, you know, life, and you think about, okay, well, now I have all of these challenges,
and so on and so forth, it doesn't make sense that the Creator of the heavens, the Earth would not
send you guidance, and to tell you like what you should do and what you shouldn't do, right? The
Quran mentions that, does he not know what he created? I mean, he brought us from a state of non
existence to a state of existence, he brought you up when you were nothing, right? When you were a
child, and you were dependent upon your parents, and so on and so forth. And now you're this adult?
		

			And you're, you know, you're thinking and you have this rationale. And now you're, you're going to
reject God. I mean, and and then and then you say, well, there's nothing there. Well, no, of course
not. There's something there, there's guidance that he sends to in your way, you know, right
guidance in the form of books, and messengers. And for us, that's the Koran and the Prophet
Muhammad, peace be upon him.
		

			Tell us you can expect, you know, I asked people off, I say, look, you look kind of silly, if you
were 10 years, 12 years old, you're still in kindergarten, you know, or if you just stayed like your
whole life, and at a certain level, you want to progress. But you can't progress if you're, you
know, how important is this? If you're listening to Miley Cyrus all day, you're watching, you know,
all day, after work during work, people will sit in their office, the county's got his screen here,
watch some daytime, nighttime drama, in the car music and you're not climbing the spiritual ladder,
you're staying in that kindergarten, you're not training your mind, you're not growing? Absolutely,
		

			absolutely important is this. It's very important. I mean, and remember, I was talking about the
idea of, you know, the, the natural state of the human being, the human being craves spirituality,
it craves a connection with its creator, right. And but in order to establish that creation, that
that that connection with the Creator, there has to be guidance in order to do that. Right. And
there has to be a struggle to do that. Like you mentioned, like, like we were talking about earlier,
any endeavor that you go, any endeavor that you that you go upon you take upon yourself, whether
it's to you know, get a PhD, whether it's to, you know, get a six pack, it takes some work, you
		

			know, and I remember one example where the person or the person said imagine a sports person, they
look really elegant, right? So a perfect jump shot, right? The guy takes it, boom, it looks
beautiful, but what you don't see in that elegance is the years of hard work you put into it, right?
It's just like that with spirituality. There's a lot of work that goes into it when you see someone
spiritual you almost recognize them there's almost like a light on their face. Beautiful. I mean,
this is really something to think about. I mean, most people they try all of these other superficial
things and at the end that void it's absolute emptiness is still there. Absolutely. Recently I was
		

			reading an article multi billionaire he sold his company and he's in a you heard of a visa?
		

			Yes, like Party Central or something. Right. Okay. And and many of these people they have all this
money. Sure. And he was talking about how isolated he felt. Yeah, and no, and just your because that
void money can't fill that void. Absolutely. It's an interesting paradox because it's the more money
you have doesn't necessarily mean you have happiness or satisfaction. You know, it's just
contentment that's what it's the real the real richness is contentment so now after your journey
your story Now you mentioned wrapping up sure with the professor was it was talking to you know, is
my my manager at the company your control your managed Yeah, deal. summarize what happened then?
		

			Well, after that, I mean, I guess initially when I when I start speaking to her, I was kind of, you
know, I was I was new I didn't really know much about you know, religion, but I kept on criticizing
Christianity to such an extent that I think I may have kind of rubbed her the wrong way. So, you
know, I mean, we're still on good terms and things like that, and I'm, you know, I'm still inviting
her to consider Islam
		

			And hopefully, God willing that she will consider it and you know, she'll just see what it for what
it is, you know the truth. So you're now also tell us about your organization, you're sure. So I'm
part of an organization called Islamic education research Academy, Ira for short. We do a lot of
work specifically to outreach to non Muslims dour to non Muslims, calling people to the truth.
		

			You know, and from whatever socio economic, whatever religious background or non religious
background that you have. We do training in that regard as well to Muslims, we go to different
communities, train them how exactly to call people to the truth, call people to Islam. And this is
about sharing if you care for people you want to share? Absolutely, yeah. So how can people get
involved if they, if they want to get involved? It's ira.org, i, e, r a.org. Beautiful, thank you so
much for being on the show. We started with peace nekoma salon with the law. And there you have it,
someone who went through the experience at the university through life, and something's missing, and
		

			then somehow religion comes up, and he went back to his roots. And, you know, what Islam we talked
about provides all of that evidence. And if you look at it, you know,
		

			it just leaves you with nowhere else to go, but to submit, to submit to the one who created you.
Because this way of life is clear, is rational. And for the one who follows another way, possibly
not based on evidence and proof. And then you just follow your lesson desires, where are you going
to end up? Where did Miley end up where she ended up Brittany, where they end up just in a state of
confusion, a state of loss, but get out of the darkness into the light by asking the owner of life
to make things clear, and from there, take some time out to investigate to seek out the truth.
Because at the end of the day, it'll be worth it. def is a reality, we know that we're going to die.
		

			And at the end, where are we going for the atheists? Or the agnostic? What do we just fall asleep?
And then it's finished? It wouldn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. So if you still have any
questions, call us we have a number that you can call us and we can start a healthy dialogue. One
800 662 Islam pick up from us we'll mail you a free copy of the Quran. read it for yourself. And
subscribe if you haven't already and tune in every week to the deen show where we're here helping to
answer somebody who's your questions purpose of life. Why are you here? Here on a daily show? Until
next time, please be with you. Please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and
		

			Twitter pages in the links below. Please also help support the show by making a donation in the link
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