Abdurraheem Green – Husbands Boyz 2 Men or just Big Babies A Peace of Cake Podcast
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Salam alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Welcome to viewers and participants. And without further ado, he over there is well this is Abderrahim green. And that one
that one is a baker. And this is a piece of cake. Okay, how are you doing? Abdur Rahim? Al Hamdulillah I'm okay, how
not to wait another week I'll be weeks being good is just go so quick, bro. Dallas. So the truth is I'm I always think you know when when these sessions end I think okay, let me put in a bit of preparation for the next one you know do a bit of reading do a bit and before I know it boom, we're you know
it's been a good week it's been, you know, just apart from everything just moving faster. Now masala is now I think
a number of people have already registered interest. Why leikam Slum Laila? Regarding this particular topic, I brought the Carly's Why leikam Salam, and I think that yes, now Mike, good to see you there again as well. While he can slough off to law, this topic is one which I think needs to be discussed. And the title again, is us Abderrahim looking inwardly looking outwardly looking at things that
are seldom discussed, I think transparently. So husband's okay, what what does it mean Boys to Men, or just be babies? And why that title Abderrahim. The reason why I felt this title needed to be covered is because being a husband, okay has so many expectations. Okay, being a husband has so many connotations from religious perspective, as well as a general Western, non Muslim perspective. And it can be confusing for a number of reasons. Okay, those of us who were raised without fathers, many of us raised in a patriarchal society, and being macho and being dominant and being strong. Okay. Many of us using the religion prescriptively, because we thought initially, that that's how it
should be used, when it came to interaction with our wives, with our children, with being Muslim men being Muslim husbands. And I think that we've made
quite a few errors. But I also feel we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much.
That in wanting and trying, and making the efforts like many have made to be good husbands, we have succeeded, to some extent, greater or lesser extent, depending on the circumstance in which perspective we're looking at. So is that the case I wanted to ask ourselves, or a we just wish some may be people who have grown up into men's bodies still have got that mummy syndrome, where we were spoilt, and we've married expecting our wives, to be surrogate mothers to us and to to pander to our every need. And when that's not done, we treat them like we're spoiled kids. There is that perspective as well. So that's why I thought this title will be a good one to open up a whole can of
worms if you want or a Pandora's box, if you like, whatever.
Absolutely, bro. I mean,
but first, let me talk about my own personal perspective. And that is that I don't have I mean, we all have issues but my issues are not those sort of issues because basically I was sent off to a boarding school when I was 10 years old. So I had to learn to in many ways look after myself. Pretty much soon after that I was living in my own flat cook for myself looked after myself keen Well, you know,
have a variety of cleaning, I suppose. But you know, I mean, I've had to look after myself.
Quite a lot in my life. And I took an interest anyway in in just cooking when I was a kid just because it just looks like you know
those things I wanted to eat, they weren't being cooks.
I mean, you know, from my perspective,
I, you know, like it was up. I don't I don't even remember being mothered. You know,
like, it's just, you know, even when I was at home,
you know, my mom didn't really do the cooking, we had a cook, we had servants who used to clean the house and stuff, we had a driver. So, like, you know, I never had that sort of
upbringing myself. So it's, like, very natural for me, I guess to
you know, to just take that just continue that way. I, you know, I, I find it weird. If someone makes me breakfast, they get up and make my own breakfast. And, you know,
but that's me.
Because what that's unique, you might not think it is because you've just said something which ordinarily are not mutually inclusive. That being that you're you were raised with servants and maids and everything like that, but and so you would expect you to be a spoiled brat, and and want everything at hand when you want it to be. But the fact that you also went to
boarding school, and you had that you've learned for yourself yet that the aspirations to you wanted to do things for yourself when you did, those things don't necessarily go hand in glove. So that's unique in itself. Maybe you might say, No, there's a lot of individuals in the same position as you. But then let's look at it in icon look from this region, the Middle East and region. individuals who've gone through that same thing. They don't get that autonomy and independence or they don't want it, they expect to continue to reserve to continue and to have everything done for them and their nose, Washington oven and other nether regions as well. So that's very interesting that you've
said that.
Yeah, I mean, I think
to be honest, bro, even amongst the English aristocracy, and you know, I think there is the Yeah, you can have servants, but it's not often, you know, often these guys go into the military. So you like even see Harry, Charles, William, all of them. They're all spend time in the military. And believe me, no one's there wiping your bottom in the military. Yeah, that's right. And um, it doesn't matter if you're the flippin King or the prince, whoever, right. In the army, it's the army and you have to mock him with everybody else. And when it's your turn to clean the toilets, you've been clean the toilets mate. You know, it doesn't matter if your prince who do poorly. Yeah.
And so there's that whole thing, like, you know, there's the strong vein, when the within the, I guess the aristocracy and the middle class of, you know, like, men have to be men, they have to be tough, they have to be self sufficient. I mean, you may have a servant, but you don't rely on that servant. Right. So, I mean, the fact that I had servants didn't mean that I wasn't able to make my bed in the morning to clean up my room. And, you know, cook my breakfast if I needed to. It's quite the opposite, actually, to be honest.
So I find this whole
pampered man, I find it quite revolting. To be honest. I think it's very, um, masculine. I think it's a feminine, I think it's pure oil. I think it's like infantile.
And it makes for a horrific, you know, base on which to build the ummah. Right? I mean, these are not people who could do anything significant. For a civilization. Right. There won't be I mean, look at Saudi Arabia. Yeah. This war in Yemen, this horrific, disastrous, disgusting, you know, war that's going on.
And basically, because Saudi troops are so pampered, they're so spoiled, they wouldn't get out of their air conditioned tents. Yeah, they're too flippin fat to run 50 yards. So, you know, they think that the way to win a war is just bomb people into oblivion, you know, women and children all the rest of it.
Like,
this is the reality. Right? And this is not just the Saudi army. This is the across the board, right? You remember back in the days, bro? When there was Bosnia, and before that there was Afghanistan. And that was a time when you could go and fight jihad. Yeah, it wasn't a big thing. Right? We've talked about this before, right? You've talked about this before, like now you think if you go off to Syria, that's it. You're, well, it wasn't like that back in the day. And we would give sermons and Hotspurs and circles and they were quite happy. Yeah. And some of us went, some of them are quite happy. The authorities here are quite happy to have us recruited to go off and fight
again, in their eyes, communist, you know, Russia, right. The point being is that
But I mean, no, I don't want to go on too much about that. We talked about that plenty already. I just want to make the point that
there was all this talk you had you had you had you had
brothers, you know, love to talk about jihad. And we've talked about before the jihad ease and tuck theories. Yeah. Would they would mouth off the most about jihad? Yeah. But yeah, I used to say in the hotbeds, I said, if you guys, you guys don't even need know how to take a poo in the woods. Yeah. If you go out into the forest today, and you had to go and you know, take a dump, you wouldn't know how to excuse my language. I'm trying to make it nicely. You wouldn't know what to do. Right, let alone if you know, imagine you had to relieve yourself. And there was bombs blowing up all over the place. So people have got no idea but no idea. How to. Even night. Yeah, right? Is this spoil
week, you know, almost effeminate. Like, I'm sorry, there's just too many Muslims like that. Across the board everywhere. And the sad the irony of that abdur-rahim, what you're saying is, and it's funny, as you will say, go to the woods, I'm laughing because it reminds me of a childhood nursery. If you go down to the woods today, you're being for a big surprise.
comeback. But the irony is that, as you've mentioned, that
some of that machismo, if you like that match show image that is portrayed outwardly is then transfer inwardly, within the home environment. And the expectations of the wives of us of our wives are such that it can become oppressive.
And chapter and verse are cited in evidence to say, and they are authentic. verses in the Quran, they would grant of course, is authentic, there are authentic narrations that are there
that they use, and Muslim wife, seeing that doesn't want to go against the narration that there. But the way it's being used prescriptively, without any spirit, without any understanding, causes her not only to be depressed in the first instance, but to kick back against that. And then the husband, who then says, I'm a degree above you, then starts accusing
wives of disobedience going against the dean, and we need to take a second wife, because you want a strong woman and everything like that, I'm not going to get into second wifing because they have obviously merits virtues there. There are downsides as well. But the point here is that that character or characteristic or type of man that you've defined, does that. And we see that in non Muslims as well look at what happens with
amongst the police force, we see the policemen come home, and there's a high rate of domestic abuse,
that that machismo outside, then they transfer that in, and they have expectations of their wives to treat them in that way of so they've got the uniform on and they should be feared, and they are the long arm of the law and and all of this. So what you're saying that I do agree with what I would say, though,
as an as not caution, but I think just to put a temper, an aspect of that is that
we do have rights. But the point is like Ali Rajala, who said in that that famous fr I think you would remember as well, that he doesn't call upon the rights of his his rights from his wife, less she calls upon her rights upon him from him, and he's unable to fulfill them. And when we look at that, that balance there that caution there you said it last week, the man who has to say you must obey Me, you must do this. I want you to do that because I'm the husband epitomizes weakness epitomizes insecurity. And we have to ask where that comes from and one that before I go back come back to you Abrahim. A sister said that I can speak on this a few sisters because I've been
contacted. Some are married to men who are management manuals. Yeah, they've basically been pampered by their mothers so much, okay, that their expectations are that their wife does that and then some, and they were even supported by their mothers I have accounts
with the mother would reinforce the if the Son the daughter is not doing ABCD and is effectively a slave. Okay, and it's get forgotten her rights that the mother then puts pressure on and if the mother is unhappy with the daughter, the husband sides with the mother, because he says well brings the Hadith again, the three rights of the mother over the father, over the son sorry, and that's three right more three times more rights than the father does. And often
And I'm not frowning upon this, but the wife in the cultural relationships often moves into the family home. And that becomes like a prison and a place of torture and mental torture and a nightmare. For a number of sisters. I'm not saying everyone, and I'm not saying it all goes wrong, but I'm talking about the cases that have come to me directly in that instance. So the husband now is basically a child, okay? With this woman, she may be a trophy wife, okay? She may have a career she may have not, they may want her to be a slave in that home. And she is at the beck and call of not the husband, but the mother. And the husband then reinforces everything from the mother, the
mother in law.
Those are boys, those are babies, they are not men, they shouldn't be in relationships, they should stay at home with mommy and do whatever that mommy wants them to do, and have their head wrapped wrapped in massage, maybe get cocoa and milk in the evening. So they can go to bed and and just say yeah, I'm a grown man, and mommy's happy with me. But they should not think by marrying a wife, externally referencing in order to fulfill a peer rental requirement, makes them a man, or makes them better than where they are. emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, whatever it may be. We have men like that. But in this move away from the culture aspect, we've got converts, who come into
the dean. Okay, I'm talking about some from my background, my cultural background.
And they've come from a background where there is chauvinism, but not to the degree where you see them being misogynistic to women, because there's much more than even balance in J Helia. The way we interact with women, women's rights, everything, but we come into the deen we see these edicts, we see these descriptions, we see these rights of the husband.
And then somehow, and I say that's an element of idealism, misunderstanding, or in a yearning to have this dominant hand. We start using what we learned on the deen as a battering ram against our wives to stop them for like you cannot get out of the home with you saying it wasn't the Hadith was that I have cried Stay in your homes. But that wasn't the understanding, as we discussed it the week before. But they start using that we use that to to repress, to oppress thinking that we're not doing that. But in actuality, we are especially in the context of the societies that we're living in and the way we misconstrue these understandings. So it's not just a cultural context. It's that
context that we've come in to the dean found all of this wealth of information about the role between the man and the woman. And we may have had insecurities before abdur-rahim, that we were not in the career path as women that we knew we were not climbing that career ladder, as women were, and we may marry your sister who was in that that train or in that pathway, and who is qualified and has got academic acumen. And so in order to repress or subjugate her in that way, we bring the dean, you should be here, I should be here. Even though we don't have the ability, we don't have the qualifications. We don't have the experience, we don't have the nows to go out and be as the man is
supposed to be, or, as the Dean says, he's supposed to be in the description that we have from the Quran and the Sunnah. So nev, we can't achieve that. So instead, what we do is we repress and deflect our insecurities onto our partners. There are men like that as well. Again, I put I prefer
boys, not men, or in some instances, broken men, who came to the dean broken,
who married or tried to get married to escape from their mothers, because they were broken them by their parents, by their mothers in the instance, or by the expectations of their father, or by expectations of their culture, they're broken, they bring that and it all lands at the feet of their wives who are expected to address and deal with all of that.
And they have their own issues as well for and that that comes out within the marriage, but they're the ones who are supposed to suppress that because they are in inverted commas. The fear of * and should be obedient to their husbands should forego so many things for their husband to achieve or not as the case may be.
I've said a lot I'll stop
the talk for 20 minutes straight there, bro. There you go.
Late I think you need to it'd be good to just mention one topic instead of 20 because you
you've gone through so much stuff, bro.
It's like
Yeah, I mean, the thing is you said most you said most of what needs to be said anyway. I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but there's no harm in talking about it again. Like my advice to everybody is when it comes to marriage, forget what the Sharia says. Yeah, I know I know that's really controversial people gonna be like, what stuff from Allah? But honestly, really? Yeah, forget it. Right? Because
and this whole thing like, honestly, like if brothers are sitting there thinking they're going to pull out some Hadith like it's a flippin I don't know, whatever it is like it's like it's, you know, pistols at dawn or something like that or Gunfight at the OK Corral. Yeah, yeah, I've got this hadith too. You know, I mean, honestly, this is fun. I think it's even worse than abusing women. It's abusing the religion because that's what it really is. I mean, a lot of the time people are just using the deen in and you know, I I guess you and me probably been as guilty as anybody of it. You just use the deen
in order to get what you want
you know, you want something and instead of finding a path of negotiation right and trying to bring about that change through love and compassion and friendship, yeah.
You know, we you see the interesting thing is brought up is that people are very quick to use or you know, brothers very quick to use these Hadith about you know, the wife should be like this and the wife should be like that and the Prophet said the wife should do this and that and so on. And there's so many of them of course, right?
But they forget also
and this is a weird thing, bro. This is a really weird thing. Right? So you give me your thoughts on this? How is it that you forget that your wife also is your sister in Islam?
And and all the Hadith that apply to how you should treat your brother in Islam? Yeah, how you should treat them how you should love for your brother what you love yourself. None of you truly believe until you love your brother what you love yourself. How about the Hadith that you know you will Allah you're not a believer of Allah. You're not a believer or Allah. You're not a believer, the one who's Navy is not safe from his mischief. Well, if your wife is not face, say from your Mischeif she's even closer to you than your neighbor. Right? That makes you even worse, less of a believer. Like we forget all of these Hadith about love if your brother what you love for yourself,
how would you treat your wife in a way that you don't want to be treated? Right? How do you how do you expect things from your wife? Which you don't do yourself?
It's just like, what happens like oh, she's wife now. It's she's wife, she's in a different different category of human being that somewhere between sort of slave and servant and, bro that just just just is not right at all. Three women, bro. So I think this is why I think the chef is have something wrong. The sharpies have something right? Because, you know, according to the Shafi madhhab according to Shafi, the wife doesn't have to do anything, the only thing she really has to do is when her husband wants to have * with her, you know, she shouldn't refuse, right? Obviously, she's got a good reason. She's got a good reason. But that's it. She doesn't have to cook, she
doesn't have to clean she doesn't have to do anything, but not for her husband, nothing. All those Headies about being your husband and they say it's not about housework, it's not about this. It's just about this matter of you have to fulfill his sexual needs, right? The other things, it's extra, if he wants to do that stuff. That's extra. In fact, he is supposed to provide a servant for her to do all of that stuff. Now, I'm not saying I agree with that. 100% But I think that's a very, very strong case. Because, you know, no, I'm not, you know, what do you think, bro? Otherwise I'm
gonna criticize you.
Because you know what? There's so much to pour out there. It's
like all I would do is just say, Yeah, I will kind of do I agree the first stuff you said about the first thing that you said bro about?
Family? Yeah, families, these brothers living at home, you know expecting their wife to treat them like their mother treated them and like honestly, it's and bro no job these guys have not the woman is working. The woman is working. She's got a high end career, bringing in the money. Plus she's doing looking after the brick babies. Plus she's looking after him. repin extra baby. Plus she's looking after the mother in law. Honestly, bro, it's like Vaughn
inducing behavior is display. You said the do not marry these men. This is the problem we've got, bro. This is the problem we've got. Right? Who on earth are our daughters going to marry? Yeah, that says, Where are the men? Yeah, and I'm gonna be low. I'm gonna be brutal, bro. A lot of this comes from Pakistani. Yeah. And Arab culture. Pakistanis and some Arabs are especially bad at this particular type of behavior, right? I've seen a lot of it anyway, bro. That's it, and I'm gonna zip it up now.
You know, and after, hey, just like it is a raw subject and, and we're being honest here where we once like that, or did we understand the Dean like that? When we first came in and we abused it? I think we, we use we use it for our own selves and understanding we did women have done it sisters have done it as well. But to answer your question,
why do those have IEF not apply to our wives? That's a really good question that we are thinking about as you were speaking, and you know, what I think it is, again, you can take it out of the religion and look at couples that have those domestic violence issues and problems. Because we've revealed or shared
the most intimate parts of our lives and who we are with our wives, they know us, okay, they see us and, and they know us in ways that others will never know what's outside of the home.
And we have rather
threatened by that, but some of us feel threatened by that. And we won't say that, but in the way we treat our wives. That is what is being enacted upon them. Okay to provider people feel threatened, bro, I want to understand because you because you've shown vulnerabilities there I say you've shown weaknesses that you don't use sometimes feel less put, let's talk raw abdur-rahim. It's like a man you see this happening with men back into Hillier as well, the man will sleep with the woman, the woman was sleep with the man,
that most intimate point point of
* climax, whatever, that is the most sensitive on weakest part, a man will get two is the most pleasurable as well. But a woman sees him in that way. And she sees a weakness and a vulnerability. And he doesn't like that after the event. He we love the chase. We love the oh, she's she's responding to us. We love getting to that moment. We love getting to that intimacy. And if men have been honest, if we've been honest, we've we've may have felt that momentarily before in Agile Helia may be in the deme. But because we're Muslim, at that point of the woman seeing, sensing, experiencing that level of weakness or vulnerability, intimacy, sometimes men wish that that part
they didn't have to go through. And some men react to that. They go and have other relationships to show. I don't care about this woman. I'm tough, even though that woman's affected them. I can have many women, I don't really care. And I'm gonna give you a case a abdur-rahim. This is.
Let me just I'm not gonna say much.
Because otherwise, you're going to skip to another subject. Yeah. No, because it's good. So that's one topic. I think there's just one to have a discussion about that. I'm not going to say much. But it's very interesting that
just an advice to sisters as well, right? Just relationship advice is that it's very, very, really interesting what you said, Yeah. And it goes back to what we talked about last week about vulnerability and admitting vulnerability. And it's interesting as well, that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa salam did not allow a man to to withdraw,
you know, at the moment of * from his wife, right, without her permission. That's right.
And it's also this is the moment of her pleasure, as well. It's interesting that this is a moment of the wife's pleasure, as well, right? That she gets pleasure from that moment of his complete. In a sense, you're right vulnerability. But it's interesting to say it's also interesting to point out that many men after *, right, like women quite often want to just sort of cuddle and you know, whatever they want, just to whatever. But sometimes a man just wants to go off and sit by himself, right wants to go to his cave.
And, you know, women need to understand that. Well, that's probably part of what's going on that you mentioned, is that in a sense, he needs to sort of re assert his eye. You know, he is ability to
To be an individual and you know, exist by himself, which is very important for men, by the way, but also after him good point, but stay with this topic. So we don't bounce off any we're talking very intricately now intricately. But also, that's the point. We understand from the Prophets Aslam of a woman's heightened pleasure, but not always, because it takes, but it's harder to, to please a woman than it is a man. And so what happens, I'm talking about at that point of sexual *. So what happens now is that often more often than not, the man is satisfied before the woman that he made climax before and everything. And women, the woman is still waiting for that moment of
pleasure. And the man doesn't have to do it. He doesn't know the different types of * that a woman can have and everything. He's not a woman's anatomy or hasn't experimented with, enough for that to happen. So what then happens is that she's left wanting, he's completely satisfied. And he feels again, and inadequacy, that he cannot show her that I'm feeling that inadequacy, because I am the man. So there's an element of frustration that comes and an element of bitterness comes towards her that she's not satisfied. And he's not the one who's been able to satisfy
psychologically, probably opening up a can of worms here, bro. It's such an interesting discussion. But you know, I mean, my, I guess my, you know, my advice to men out there would be take care of your wife, first, make sure she gets where she wants to be. Before you, you get where you want to go, right? Because once you've got there, it's you know, you know, it's finding the energy to, you know, turn your attention to her to make sure she gets her pleasure is going to be more challenging. So, anyway, you know, that that's, you know, like, doesn't always have to be like that. But you know, that that's one thing that you can be you're right, it can take time, and it can be, but it's
our dream. So different subjects to show you. But to click to close this aspect of that topic, I want to tell you show you about, you know, worked in the Crown Prosecution Service when it first opened 1986 up to 1980 hours in those two years. And one of the cases I sought to endure to reinforce what I'm saying here, okay, if this individual develops psychological problems, there was a murder case, okay, and I to read the entire file, and what this individual date, they have some brutal murders that he did, but with one of his exes, basically, who had had a relation with ship with two days before he went back, okay to her, he didn't kill her, but he raped her. And when they
asked him, Why did you do that, when only two days ago, you had a relationship with her, he said, I had to go and take back what she had taken from me. And I didn't feel complete enough until I'd done it in that way. Because the two days before, these vulnerability, intimacy, softness, everything came out. So going back and doing it that way for him was taking back his manhood. Now that's bizarre. It's sick. That's wrong. I mean, the thing is, there's this, this this epidemic of these men, right, and we, I mean, there's this guy keeps probably, you know, we keep seeing his comment, you know, I don't mean to, you know, maybe means it and innocently, but you know, don't show your
vulnerability to anyone except Yes, especially women. Yeah, and this and that. And that's just wrong wrong. I mean, that's just not right. And bra this this whole I don't know what you call them these the these men who, like hate women, and they resent them because they they can't get dates and stuff like that. What was this?
What are they called? The names even though yourself but it's like a massive phenomenon. A lot of them. Unfortunately, it seems to be sort of right wing sort of extremists even commit like violent crimes. Like there's a whole you know, like people Red Pill movement, Red Pill movement,
the red pill movement, but there's a name for them. I can't remember someone was one of
our viewers will bear to put the name up. I can't remember the name. It'll come to me shortly. But yeah, I know.
This whole madness, like these group of men. I know that he's like, I don't know that. Yeah. That that the chase, not because they want to be chased. But because no one will date them. Right. That's right. You know, I mean, the thing is, you know, the thing is, bro is that I think we to go back to something you said cells, they're called in cells. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Yeah. In so okay, this whole insole movements, very scary role.
But, you know, it doesn't come from nowhere as well, right. I mean, because the other thing is, there are a lot of men who are who are sensitive. They don't like this whole, highly sexualized, flirtatious, you know, sort of fornicating culture right
It make people forget that, you know, there are men who are shy, there are men who don't like this, there are men who want to be, you know, they actually want to be good husbands, they want to be they want to build a family, right? You know, they want a secure relationship. They want that, but they feel like, you know, there are a lot of people out there, I guess who are feeling that? Well, unless I'm a bad boy. Yeah. You know, that's it. Women always seem to go after those bad boys. And, you know, if I'm, uh, you know, like, you know, I'm not one of those bad boys, then that's it, she's just gonna go off with one of them sooner or later anyway, I mean, I don't know about, you know what
Allah He, the more you think about it, the more you think Alhamdulillah for Islam.
And we need we need to, you know what, I think that there are some legitimate problems
we are faced of being husbands and knowing how to be a husband, in today's world, because of the many challenges and the shifting sands of what men's roles was we discussed last week and women's roles. And we see psychological problems developing as a result of that. But we need to a lot of sisters have mentioned how mothers have affected adversely affected their sons, some have tried to say I'm not, you're not going to be like your father. And they've raised them in ways that are basically anti masculine, some have pushed them the opposite direction you have to provide, you've got to be the man of the house. And we can't do that to our sons. We can't do that to our sons,
we've got to really know them. Understand the challenges they've got and nurture them. Okay. They nurture men that Hanny's mentioned in here, men behave like this in marriage, because they know that divorce woman, divorce wouldn't stay with them. So so a lot of the time, they don't have nothing to lose. And that's a very good point, because we are still in a society that when a woman is divorced and single culture, though, like that
Pakistani culture, but it's not so true in our culture. Okay. So I'm not I mean, again, I'm generalizing. I'm saying very general things, but like, yeah, in some cultures, divorces, like that's it once you're divorced. That's your that's it? So I know, like in India, for example, someone was messaging me recently. That's the case once a woman's divorced, you know, almost like someone would look at it. But that's definitely not the cases and other cultures, right. In fact, in some cultures, if she's been divorced, it might even make her more attractive as issue for in a weird way, for marriage. So I mean, you know, these things do depend a lot on cultural situations.
Not I wouldn't say that that's universally true, by the way. And, here, what but look at what Ben is saying here, and I think this is important. He's saying he personally doesn't hate women, but he hate the fact that they don't have accountability. That's an interesting point that he's making. And I would ask, why don't women have accounting, right? I don't think that's what that's what I've that's what I've been out if you could write again, and explain what you mean by that. Because if we're talking, if you're talking about the perspective, where there's a culture of finger pointing, and the women are perceived to be victims, or day to day play the victim card more often than not,
and a lot of that is legitimate, but there are illegitimate claims, where the wife, the ex wife, or the disgruntled wife can say, and we've seen it, my husband's a terrorist. He's he's got these extreme views, he beats me trigger words that are used by some women in order to raise the attention against their husbands. And we see that happening quite a lot in in society, not saying that it's all illegitimate, because the number of cases are very, very legitimate. But the point that he's making that Ben's making there, you'd have to elaborate a bit more then because I think that there is accountability from the husband and the wife in the marriages. And it's, it's different types of
accountability that we need to be looking at. But we can't speak for the women at this point. And for our sisters, as we said, we were not going to but for us as as husbands abdur-rahim. Now,
I would ask you this question, Has it become not for us with where we are in our lives? Now? I can't say that we would say that. But has it become more difficult to be a husband?
A Muslim husband,
balanced Muslim husband today than yesterday?
No, I definitely don't think so. But I mean, that's just again, I can only talk. I don't know. I mean, from my personal position, what really? I don't think so. I think I it's just a question of
You know, I guess if you if you just have that growth mindset, where you're always looking to learn, and you're not looking to justify yourself and just, you know, feed your ego. You know, Ego is the Enemy, right?
Yeah. So you know, but if you're really trying to improve yourself, and you're trying to improve your character, and you're trying to be a better human being around and a better husband, be the best husband, you can be the best dad, you can be, you know, to be the best human being that you can be be the best worshipper of Allah that you can be. So I was thinking about this whole thing, bro, that marriage is half of faith. Right? I mean, bro, that's another topic we should talk about, like, because I was I had some mind blowing insights recently into why, you know, like, why marriage is so challenging. Right?
And let you know, I to go back to our main topic, right? I think that I don't know about you, but I definitely definitely
still have this big inner child in me like this. When I say an inner child, like maybe not in a baby like a child child, but you know, I still, I guess, in some ways, I still sort of think I'm 22.
And I still want to do a lot of stuff. I don't mean haram stuff here. Right, you know, but yeah, I am constantly tempted to just walk out of my house, and just disappear and go on some adventure somewhere, you know, a little bit like Bilbo Baggins going on in The Hobbit, literally. And it's just like, you know, it's a real.
And that's what I was thinking about why marriage is half the deen. Because, ultimately, and this is this is really the key to this subject, bro. Right? Because I don't think we've actually really got down to the nitty gritty of what this topic is about. Because we can talk about all of these things, but we need to talk about, we need to be solution focused as well. Right? So what is the difference between a child and a grown up? What is the difference between a boy and a man? The fundamental difference, in my opinion, is a man is able to control their impulses, a man is able to control their desires, the man is able to pause and plan and think ahead, a man is able to take
responsibility not only for himself, but for his family. Right. That's what a man does. He takes responsibility for himself for his family for society. This is what an adult does. This is what a man does. Children. They just do what they fancy, you know, and they find it very, very hard to control themselves. Right? So this is the crazy thing is you see men, I mean, their men biologically from the point of view of you know, they're 37 years old, they're still living at home. They still don't have a regular job. They sit there playing computer games. Yeah. Probably watching a lot of *, playing computer games, gain takeaways. Just living the life like that living off their
parents living off their wherever scraping whatever, no responsibility, no thinking about improving themselves. No thinking about building a family building society. So this is really what we have when we talk about what what does it mean, boys, right? Boys are people, they just kids who live on their impulses, right? They're just going off to the next exciting thing. They're running off to the next bit of entertainment. Right? And they don't realize that in reality, what it means to have the deen our way of life. Our religion is about controlling yourself. It's about controlling your impulses about self control. It's about willpower. It's about self discipline. It's about true grit
and determination. And I'll tell you what, really being a husband, and really looking after your family of the heart, bro. That's what it teaches you. Right? It teaches you you just can't do whatever you want when you feel like it. That spot on abdur-rahim. That's that spot on. And also there's there's what you said about the Bilbo build a bank backings wherever his name is.
But what you said there being childlike
can be okay, in circumstance what you described with these these men at home with 37. That's childish. I totally agree with you. I think that is such a fantastic summarization that you need to write that down and share that I think on social media, because that's so that you summarized it so succinctly. There's another aspect of that I want to add and let me know what you think about this. And I'm going to make sure I'm not contradicting myself from what I said earlier. There's also an
other aspects. So I remember sitting with a close brother, you know him as well,
about a year and a half ago and we sat for 12 hours. I was visiting Dubai at the time
that he came and sat in my hotel with me said, I haven't seen you for a few years. And we just we had breakfast, lunch, dinner, we just kicked in from 12 noon, to talk with that just catching up. But he said some. And I've heard a few brothers say this, and I understood what they meant. He said, Look, I love my wife.
But one of the things I miss is the way
she used to pay attention to me, pamper me, not baby wife, he said, You know, when you're first married, and you're into each other said, and he said, I understand why that's not happening now, because we've got children. We've got responsibilities she's got to focus on though she still focuses on me, but not in the same way. And so he was actually saying to me, Look, I want that back. But I don't think I can get he said, The only time I got that back and he was thinking, I need to marry again. I said, No, no, well, hold on a minute, take time, married few times, you need to get it right, don't just run off in that direction, when his wife realized that
he was missing that, and he communicated that to her. And she she was very pleased with me. And he's a good husband, Mashallah. And she revisited that, and I saw him recently masala now that I'm living here, and it all came back. And I'm saying this as a sort of,
I don't know, a message to brothers a message to sisters. So in him highlighting that he's missing that, okay.
That sort of vibe that you had in the early stages of his marriage, it's come back to an extent now. And I see that there's that he was relieved about that. But men do miss that, as do women. Okay, that that first that initial spark or understanding appreciating that things have changed. Because responsibilities, you've got older, you've got used to each other, you still love each other, but you're not in love with each other. And I think for the husbands, one thing that's really important, and I'll say this, and I'm not alone, I'm happy, I can say this, I've been imploring marriage and everything Hamdulillah. But I've always remained in love with my wife. Okay. And I think I can see I
did detect that she's still in love with me, even the way we communicate, when we go out and everything like that, we go for meals. And I think that that's very important to add that to what you said about being men, okay, being a man as opposed to a boy, okay? Because if you're a boy, and you're not getting that, you're going to start treating your wife with malice with Spike, and you're not going to explain why you're treating her in that way. Because you're too immature, to say, I just want you to pay attention to me, I want that feeling that I used to have that we used to have before pay attention to me, I miss having that attention for you.
They may not read that, because some women may perceive that as weakness, they may not do that, because they're immature and childish, and don't have that emotional intelligence to be able to articulate themselves in that way. So I think what you've said and what I've highlighted there, when you put those together, that really demarcates the men from the boys, the man knowing his feelings, his emotion, what's missing, how to articulate that, okay, and how to acknowledge why this is happening. Whereas the boy will throw all the toys out of the pram and cause even more problems, go into assaults disappear for ages, not communicate with his wife, when he comes in, she hasn't got
any idea what's wrong, and it's because he can't emotionally articulate, I just want you to give me a kiss or give me a hug or pay attention to me.
I mean, this is, uh, you know, like, my marriage advice. Whenever I'm, you know, whenever I hand out marriage advice, I like to have a few. You know, I few things I need. There's only a few real things, I think that are important. And it's so interesting that what you mentioned, because one of the things I always say is that, you know, your wife or your husband is not a mind reader. Right? And, you know, there's this thing, and I knew I knew this from Joe Hellyer. Right. So this is something I understood before. Right? When you're really in love with something like when you're really in love, like you said in love with someone, right? There's this almost mystical connection,
inexplicable connection. Yeah, that just goes way beyond like this. Some of the things that will happen, do not have explanations within the physical world as the way that we know it, right. And I can give some examples, right. But forget the examples. The point is, you know that it's almost like you're able to almost totally feel how that person is feeling right at any given time. But the thing is that that very, very, almost never lasts forever, right? It's
I know a toll ongoing situation, right? And so what you think is very easy to think. And this can be made worse by watching lots of movies. Yeah. Because they don't help you deal with reality at all right? And you think that, Oh, she's supposed to love me, she should know what's wrong. And by the way, women do exactly the same thing. They think, Oh, my husband should know what's wrong, I shouldn't have to tell him, he should know what's wrong with me. Right? And then like, when he's totally clueless, it's like, she will get more and more angry. And when he you know, when she's totally clueless, you know, he gets more and more mad, and more and more, whatever. And it's all
it's not, maybe it's not even immaturity. Maybe it's even not here, he's a baby, or she's a baby or whatever. It's just, it's just no one told them like, Hey, wake up, like, that person is not a mind reader, right? And love can be like that sometimes. But most of the time, it's not like even for people who are really intensely in love. It's not like that, maybe very occasionally. So if you have a problem, you've got to talk about it. If you've got an issue, you've got to discuss it. Right? And if you don't want to, we'll get over it then. No, like, don't blame someone. It's like, bro, I saw this. I saw this video clip that this brother posted, right?
Well known anti feminist brother, right?
Our you know, like, and he posted this video of this guy standing outside his house or the flat, right? And his girlfriend or whatever, a wife or whatever it was throwing all the clothes. Yeah. And saying, you know, you're disgusting, right? You slept with my sister? And he said, but I didn't. She said, Yeah, you slept with her. In my dream in her dream apartment. He said, Well, I said, I can't stop that. What am I supposed to do? And she's going you're disgusting, right? It's like, bro, would you This is how mentally deranged people are these days? Right? This is how they are. This is how confused they are. Right? So the thing is, is that it's all about communication. You know, like, if
you don't want to communicate your issues to your wife or your husband, then don't make it an issue is not simple. Can I?
Very good point on just to add to that as well. One of the things that we make mistakes with as well is that
when I'm involved working this out and thinking okay, I've got I've got to look at this. But what you may love your wife in the way that you know how to love her. But it may not be the way that she wants you to love her or is used to be in love.
Languages bro different. So what happens yet love languages? So what happens is that, you bet you end up being like two ships passing each other in the night because you're showing love to her. And she's not responding to that. She's like, and you're thinking, she's so ungrateful. I've shown her love, I poured I've said, I pulled out my heart. I've bought her this, it might be whatever, but you landed. But then when you're checking and say, well, but I love you and I'm showing you that I'm loving you. And she's saying well, but that's not what I need. That's not the love I need. I need this type of love. And so what we need to do is we need to realize we love our partners, our wives,
we and our husbands we really need to love them as they want to be loved. So for example, some of us are really intense in how we love, okay, and we don't know any other way. And some women love that. Okay, like Yeah, I want this and then it's good. Some women are like, Oh, that's too overwhelming. That's too stifling. That's too needy. I don't need that. Then you feel rejection? Like, no, no, I see that I don't like it can be the other way around. So we need to really find out how to love our wives. Men need to do that and not then feel spurned. When we're not getting a reaction that's the same because we then say we want the same love back but she may not be capable or she may be more
than capable but not see that she has to love you in the way that you are loving her. And it's like the garment of dream. We know we're all talking about that beautiful verse in the Quran being delivered through each other. But remember when you go and buy a liberal garment, you don't just jump into a skinny jeans and you've got your like 38 waist or 40 waist and you get into 28 Skinny jeans and pull it on and say it's my Garmin because you're not going to fit. You get the garment and you tailor it and you tailor it and she tailors it to fit just right so we've love it.
And let's be clear, that's not going to happen overnight. And love and relationships are going to we're going to be working on these until death do us part.
Absolutely, bro. Listen, I just want to finish up with something that literally you made me think about when you were taught that and what you said is so true. And I was thinking, You know what, for a Muslim, we should really get that. Because, you know, one of the things that I often say to people who are not Muslim, right? And you know, people who, you know, for many people, they say, oh, you know, we, you know, I just pray to God anyway, I feel like you know, and like, remember, we probably used to talk about this, we used to say that you can't worship God the way you want to worship God. Right? Exactly. You know, you may think you could sit there and just smoke lots of weed and say,
worshipping God, smoking weed, right? Like, but you know, you may think, but at the end of the day, that's not right. Right. If you really, if you really love God's right, you will worship God, the way that God wants to be worshipped, not the way that you want to express your love. You're going to worship God, the way that he is telling you is the right way to express your love to him. But that that's just a truism, in general, not just about Allah and your relationship with Allah is just true about relationships in general, whether it's with the Creator of the heavens and the earth, whether it's with your wife, or your kids, or anything that you love, right? If you really love that thing,
you are going to take the time you are going to spend the energy you are going to find out, what does that person want from me? What is that? You know, what does Allah want from me? What is that? How How, how does that person want me to express the love? Right? And not just express whatever you think? And then that's it, I'm showing my love, right? Because, you know, for all you know, that the person may interpret it as exactly the opposite. And I think if, if you haven't done that, you haven't really you're not really loving that person. And how do you get to love? All you're doing is just manifesting your ego really?
Yes, and egos you said that is that is the destroyer? And concluding That's brilliant, what you said during that game, you need to write this stuff down. But one of the things as well when I was listening to a series of lectures, che Tahir wire on our last names and attributes, how do you know how to love someone or something without getting to know them first. So if you don't know
the magnificence of Allah's ask my wife SIFAT His names and attributes, for example, but yet you say you love Allah, then you're not being true in your statement. If we say that we love our wives, as many of us say we do, and it's not an egotistical validation that we show them something and we want to reciprocate it and that that's love. We really get to know them, We as husbands, we need to do that. Okay. We need to really get to know take the time to listen, to observe, to engage, not to validate ourselves through doing things with her, but getting to know her warts and all okay, and then the way that love will grow and foster for her will be tremendous because we know her and you
cannot love something you cannot truly truly love something or someone without knowing them. Yeah
definitely bro Listen, it's been a pleasure as always bro and you can we can see from the comments that you know, mashallah, we've provoked a lot of thought and well, that's what we I guess what we do a lot of the time Alhamdulillah bro, it's been a pleasure as always, inshallah I will. Another amazing conversation next week in sha Allah insha Allah. As for me, I'm the Rahim green and that one over. The problem is the cameras always the other way around row. Does your camera do that?
That way your there
is Oh yeah, that is Abdullah Baker. And this was a piece of cake design coming up here to all of you.
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