Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera – How to Make Love to Your Wife the Proper Way
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Smilla Rahmanir Rahim Assalamu alaykum Warahmatullahi
Wabarakatuh. Welcome back to the happily ever after podcast. I'm
your host Shabbir. And this is a podcast dedicated to everything
related to marriage and relationships in Islam. Today we
have a very special guest, as well as a very interesting topic, as
well. He is the author of The Handbook of a healthy Muslim
marriage. We have with us today, Dr. Abdul Rahman Maghera sloth
when it comes to Russia, when it comes to number Rahmatullah, who
want to go to? How're you doing? Be with you, Al Hamdulillah, this
very be with you. Thank you so much for joining us on the
podcast. And we mentioned the book, I'm gonna actually just
quickly start with that I've got the copy with me here. Have the
light, it's for those of you who aren't aware, Chef, actually, when
did you when did you first publish this book? This was in I think,
September 2019. So just one. Okay, so it's a good one and a half
years ago, I actually got my hands on the book a good year ago. And
it definitely is an amazing read something very contemporary, I
would say. And it covers many aspects of marriage even before,
during, after family planning, etc. So do get your hands on this
handbook of a healthy Muslim marriage. And in fact, within the
book, there is a section on the topic that we're going to be
discussing today, which is intimacy in marriage. And that is
our topic for today. Something which I'm sure chef would agree
that, you know, maybe isn't spoken about enough. And, you know, I
personally for me, I would say that there's there's perhaps two
extremes in this one is
that, you know, we're extremely, we could say, reserved and awkward
about this. To the extent that it's just not spoken about, you
know, growing up, parents never have that conversation. And maybe
what ends up happening is young Muslims today, they just start
learning or taking it from the wrong places. Right. That's,
that's maybe one extreme and of course, the other extreme is to be
extremely, you know, open, lewd, obscene about it. Right. And
having no kind of barriers. So would you agree with that, and why
this kind of state?
Absolutely. I mean, Smilla rahmanir? Rahim Al hamdu lillah wa
salatu salam, ala CD Mursaleen. Early, he also he is fine. So
yeah, I think there's definitely two extremes about parents
teaching you the subject. I know, that's gonna be a bit difficult as
well. Of course, they should facilitate it at least get
something for you to read or, I mean, I guess today, everybody
knows about it. Anyway, it's more about the parents guiding the
person to say that this is important. And especially when we
get into the discussion, the boys and the girls the the differences
between them, there's a massive difference. So yes, definitely.
People need guidance in this regard. They can't just do it
based on stuff they've seen.
I guess, you know, and which makes them a as you said, the other
extreme, which is just completely Ludo, expecting things which are
not really realistic. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I guess, you know, one could
ask, so what is what is my starting point? You know, like,
Okay, I'm maybe looking to get married soon, whatever it may be.
It's not a conversation that I can easily just bring up with parents
or elders. It's perhaps something that's not maybe spoken about
openly. So do I just go on the internet? Do I try and find a
book? You know, where do I even begin with this? So what would
your advice be? I think from experience with talking to
different people, especially when we're researching the book, it
looks like a lot of people are getting there. The first hand
information is actually coming from friends. So when you're about
to get married, I mean, you're saying we're doing it normally,
like in the Islamic sanctuary, Islamically sanctioned way, then
people will speak to their friends, I'm getting married. And
if they're very close, their friends will tell them, maybe give
them guidance about their experience. But the thing is that
your friends experience is not necessarily going to be the best
positive experience. I know one couple, one particular woman who
said that a friend of hers, who was married among her friends, she
was probably the second to get married. And her friend told her
that it's going to be very painful. So she was actually
expecting pain. And then after that, she mentioned that when we
you know, when it actually happened, it wasn't that bad. So
it's just
a lot of different ideas you get from the wrong people, although
the intention may be completely perfect, or it may just be the
experience. But I think it is important, especially nowadays, to
to realize because people are a lot more educated about the wrong
aspects of intimacy because of the prevalence of fornication.
Sorry, prevalence of *. So I think it's very important to
understand really what the reality is. And I think in that the most
important thing, I think is,
I think the most important thing in this regard, I think, is that
men should understand women, and women should understand what tick,
you know, what makes a man tick. This is where the one of the
biggest hurdles comes in. But we humans are selfish. So if they're
not focused on the other individual, that this is actually
a mutual act, I think if we can just understand that it's a mutual
act, and it's not just for my pleasure, or the woman should not
think is just for his pleasure, I can actually get something out of
this, they will both be happy. Generally, the man is going to do
his part, the woman is the one who generally gets left behind. So
then she sometimes just gives up and says, Okay, it's all about
him. And then she's just suffering because, you know, you everybody
needs everybody needs a fulfillment. So I think those are
in broadly speaking, the issues, I think, okay. Yeah, we'll
definitely, I think, touch on some of those issues. But coming back
to what we were saying about, you know, this kind of reservation
that we may have speaking about it, as one thing that may comfort
a lot of Muslims is just to know, I guess,
is this aspect of marriage, which is a really important aspect
mentioned, within the Quran, within the Sunnah. What was the
prophets Allah license approach, when he addressed his companions?
And did he never mentioned it? Was it something they had to learn
themselves or was actually quite open about it? So I'm sure if you
could shed shed some light on, you know, certain narrations or even
verses in the Quran that speak about it. I think let me start off
with, you know, obviously, it's a subject, which is not something
that people are going to be speaking of off the cuff all the
time. But there are definitely times when the Prophet saw some
spoke about it. And he was actually very open about it when
he did speak about it a few times, and we're talking about open about
it in a very respectful sense in a very glorifying sense, because one
thing we have to realize is that having sexual * in the
right way is actually not a bad thing at all. I mean, it's not a
dirty act. Okay. I think let's everybody clarify, let everybody
get this right, that having sexual * between a husband and
wife is actually a very, very noble act. That's how people are
born. That's how the same cycle of life continues. That is exactly
how Allah subhanaw taala has decided and decreed that, that
humanity will continue profits, you know, also up offsprings you
know, aside from ESA, at least that I'm otherwise I'm how it is
set up. So this is a very, very important act and Allah subhanaw
taala speaks about in the Quran. Let me mention a hadith First,
there's a hadith in Sahih Muslim, for those who want to know 1006 is
the number. The Prophet sallallahu sallam said in the sexual act of
each of you there is a charity Subhanallah he's calling the
sexual act of charity, this dirty thing that people think it's a
dirty thing. All right, it's actually a charity. So the
companion Asya Yeah, ya rasool Allah.
How is it a charity, they just can't reconcile that idea. One of
you fulfills his sexual desire. And then he's given a reward for
that. Like, you're it's a such a, I mean, it was reduced to a set a
selfish act, which you're getting rewarded for. How is that? So the
Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, if he were meaning if
the individual were to place his desire in something unlawful,
meaning do it wrong, in the wrong way, would you not be sinning?
Thus if he fulfills it in something lawful, he will be
rewarded. So that's one Hadith another Hadith in the Prophet
sallallahu alayhi wa sallam once came home. And he mentioned later
he said, that when one of you see something outside that causes your
desire to, to increase, then come home to your wife and fulfill your
desire that's very open Subhanallah that is just so open,
because he says she has the same as what the person you saw has,
which means that she's got the same way to fulfill you. So
there's some really open text then Allah subhanaw taala if you look
at the Quran, Allah subhanaw taala says, to health accom and shito
COMM This is a really cloaked way of saying that literally do what
you want, except the prohibitions as Allah mentions in another part
of the Quran waste Aluna and in my he'd call her urban fantasy to
Lisa, Phil Maheen, that when it comes to menstruation, you should
avoid you know, any penetrative * during menstruation.
But other than that Allah says to herself, and now she can come to
your field, your crop from whichever direction you want. So
you've got a field come from the back come from the front, but in
the right passage, essentially. So it's kind of a cloaked euphemism
or a simple symbolic way of saying, you know, whatever is
allowed. There's numerous Hadith like this. There's a one of the
Sahaba came through the lesson and said that the yeah who would have
Medina, the Jews at that time, they considered penetration, you
know, proper vaginal penetration, but from the back, but doggy
fashion, whatever.
They call it in, you know, today, that is not a good idea. Whereas
other cultures were doing that. And they used to think that people
came up cockeyed, or squint with a squint if they did that. So the
Prophet sallallahu Sallam made it very clear that that's not the
case. So we've got numerous things like that, that the process made
the clarification when it was necessary. And there's actually
a lot more graphic narrations as well which if not, Kodama etcetera
have mentioned, right there's a DA mentioned for the ACT about our
law protects me as Allah protect me and protect my offspring. So
Bismillah Allahu wa jal Nimona shaytaan or gender be shaytaan
Amara zakat Anna it's actually a dua that you read at the time,
this was a dirty act if you don't read to us in the toilets, you're
supposed to read before you go in. And after you come out, you don't
read inside it because the place of shayateen but here you actually
read this door at the time in the Name of Allah, O Allah, distance
us from the Satan and distant Satan from what you grant us so
mashallah, there's a lot there. There's a lot there and there's a
lot more graphic ones, maybe we'll discuss those later. Inshallah.
Yeah,
it's amazing to know that a prophesy Salam, he addressed it in
this manner, right. And it was done very openly, but like you
said, I think the the important
addition there is that it was done in a very respectful manner as
well. It wasn't just like you said, off the cuff, just
mentioning whatever. And the Quran does the same.
Very kind of universal, respectful language when it mentions the word
health as well. And I guess this is something that can be applied
to all of the companions even you could say it's the female
companions as well, you know, where they were able to ask the
process and openly reminds me of this one Hadith that salam ala
Dillon, has she actually, you know, it's it's not directly about
sexual *. But it was um, Salim who came, or the land had to
the process. And she actually began her statement or her
question with, you know, Allah is not shy of the truth, right? And
Allah is not ashamed of it. And then she asked about if a woman
basically sees discharge, after experiencing the erotic, you know,
*, and the processes that he is, you know, she will have to
do hosel. So, even in that case, he was able to answer it openly,
respectfully.
And, you know, I guess one of the lessons we can take is, don't be
shy when it comes to these things, you know, when it comes to
learning, and if you're sincere about it, and you approach it in
the right way, then don't be shy, why would you let shyness, you
know, prevent you from from seeking knowledge? Right?
Absolutely. There should be no shyness about this, I can
understand as a natural shyness, you know, judging from the
questions that I receive, I noticed that when there's a
discussion about different there's a lecture that I've done or
something, and then after that, I will get some questions. It looks
like people are really confused about this issue, as they're
frustrated, there's a lot of women out there who are frustrated. Some
men generally men get their way in this right, because a very selfish
act, and they leave the they basically, what happens is that
they they take the woman 5060 70% of the way, and then they finish
and they, they leave the they leave the woman wanting. And
that's extremely frustrating. I mean, imagine for a man as well,
that you're taken most of the way, you've, you know, you really
reached the height nearly, and then it's like, can't carry on
anymore. And it makes it very, very frustrating. And lots of
marriage issues. I mean, I've dealt with marriage issues. And
you know that there's an underlying issue, because the
overall discussion they're having are all about small, small issues
that can't break a marriage. And then when you probe deeper, and
they get a bit comfortable, then they start discussing, okay,
there's a lot of frustration here. Right? Whether it's the man saying
that she's not willing anymore, but then when you find out why
she's not willing, okay, sometimes she's just not willing, because
there's some other psychological problem. But sometimes it's
actually because he's never treated her well. But that's how
he started it. Never, he considered her. He basically did
not give her
respect. So he's dehumanize the of all of this time. And then at the
end of the day, that's what he wants. So she's just like, I don't
want this anymore. So there could be many, many reasons for this.
But
what's really interesting is that I don't want to get into this too
deeply. But sexuality in the West is a relatively new thing. I know.
It's surprising. I mean, it's an explosion right now. Right? It's
like there are no taboos. It's like, Everything is permissible.
Everything goes. They may have a few boundaries, like in mainland
Europe, but Scandinavia, doesn't even have those boundaries.
Subhanallah however, it's only 1920s and 30s. That, in fact, even
then, people didn't really understand. I mean, the FIM. I
mean, let's be open to female *. The understanding of that
is much later it's in the 1900s
Whereas in Islam, Muslims have written on this. I mean, there's
numerous treaties written on this subject by the likes of Ibnu Sina
IGNOU. Kodama, you know, and numerous others. I mean, I'll just
mention one passage to you, if that's okay from YBNL, Kodama
YBNL, Kodama, he is he died around 12 123, which is about 620 Hijiri.
That's SubhanAllah. That's over, over seven, 800 years, right?
That's about 800 years ago, and he's writing this, right. He's
writing this at that time, he says it is preferable. It is preferable
to enjoy foreplay with his wife before sexual penetration to
arouse her desires.
He's gonna have his desire so the men generally do it but to, uh, to
arouse her desires, so that she receives a similar pleasure to his
from the * Subhanallah equality right from that time,
there's equality here. He says it's related from Mohammed
Abdullah Abdul Aziz that the Prophet sallallahu sallam said, do
not make love to her until she has experienced desires similar to
what you have, lest you climax before she does. So then I asked,
Is that on me to do that? Like is that my responsibility? You know
that I have to make sure that she gets there as well. He said, Yes,
you should kiss her, feel her with your hands and touch her. talese
Maha, right as Arabic says, And when you feel that she is then
aroused
as you then you should make love to her then you should finish the
act. And then he has something else. And then he continues after
he says, if he finishes before she does, it is undesirable for him to
withdraw from her until she finishes to based on what he's
rated from aniseed, nomadic Radi Allahu anhu, that the messenger of
allah sallallahu sallam said, and this is a Hadith narrated by in
the Muslim lovable Yet Allah, Allah mostly right? The prophets,
Allah some said, when a person makes love to his wife, he should
do so well with sincerity, affection. And that essentially
means affection, compassion, and love. And if he does fulfill his
desire before she fulfills hers, he should wait until she finishes.
Also, because it is harmful to her and prevents her from fulfilling
her desire if he pulls out too early. That's why I've got a
friend and his suggestion. I mean, I attribute to Him, it's a really
good advice. He says,
Don't, don't come yourself. Don't finish yourself until you've
allowed her to come twice.
Right now I know Subhanallah I think I mentioned that in another
lecture. So I got a call from a guy who's not yet married. I
didn't know he's not married. You saying, you know, you mentioned
this in a lecture that she should come twice. First, he took it
like, like the Holy Grail, like, you know, that is a must do
something. So it's a suggestion, it's an advice that, you know, she
should basically finish twice before and women can do that, you
know, women don't have the same problem as men, men takes them a
while maybe. But for women, they can go three, four times they have
that right? Because their trajectory is it goes up. And then
it stays up even after the climax, whereas a man he goes up, and then
he goes up very fast. And then it comes down very fast. And he has
to wait, he wants to go to sleep or whatever. So that was his
suggestion. So this guy is calling me and he's saying, but what
happened is that and they said, Are you married? He said, No, I'm
not married. I'm getting married in a few weeks. I said, You know
what, give me a call. And once you've experienced then give me a
call. Don't get too worried about this right now. Right? Just
understand that you need to please her. Right? And she needs it. And
believe me if people do that, I mean, the studies show that people
are very happy. And what that does is that it really improves the
life. There's a lot of other things it just psychologically
that satisfaction you get? It's amazing. Yeah, I think I'm so glad
you've touched on that. Because it's probably, you know, like you
said it, it becomes a huge issue within the marriage itself, which
later on causes problems, maybe initially, you kind of get through
it. But it's that frustration that that builds over time, where
unfortunately, men can be selfish, where maybe before they got
married during marriage, still they haven't picked up on the
signs, they haven't understood that women are different to them.
Whereas men can. And so it kind of comes back to the Hadith. You
mentioned that, you know, the word charity is used, right? That is a
sadaqa type of sadaqa in this. And when you kind of reflect on that
word, charity, it's almost like charity is about giving. It's not
just about taking right so for a man's from a man's point of view.
It's almost like you should be charitable to your wife in that
sense, you know? Yeah, it's not I mean, it's, it's about doing
charity, it's also about making somebody happy. I mean, giving
somebody satisfaction, removing their frustration, just making
them happy, in itself is a sadaqa and that's why it is when when a
person is with their wife, if I talk from a man's perspective, and
or from a woman's it's the same focus on the other person, make
them happy. If each of the couple I think that's one of the secrets
or if each and I'm not a professional here, right so
So I've just mentioned is based on all the research that
if both of both the couple focus on satisfying the other one more,
then that will help them to control their desire and get more
out of it. And I think with Allah subhanaw taala is placed in the
human being that if you make somebody happy, he actually makes
you happy as well. Because Subhanallah as when you give
sadaqa and when you give charity studies, mainstream studies
actually show that that creates one of the greatest senses of
accomplishment and happiness in your life. So I think if you
reduce it down to the sexual act, it's the same thing.
The problem, the problem in this regard is that some men want to do
this, but some women are very, very shy. They're not willing to
express to the husband what they want. And that's where maybe
another subject, which we can touch on later, whenever you want.
But it's more about having an open relationship. And a very frank
discussion about what a you know, what I would like what each of the
each each of the couples would like, that's a very important
aspect as well. Yeah, no, I think so. I think that is something we
should definitely discuss, because it comes down to Okay, fine, when
you first get married, okay, make sense? You know, you're still
getting to know each other, you're going through that initial initial
phase. But definitely, that conversation is healthy to have,
whether it's towards the beginning or further down the line, the man
and the woman, the man and the wife should be open with each
other and confident enough and trust each other enough, right to
actually give, if you want to call it feedback that you know what
this is, I'd be more comfortable this way, or I'm uncomfortable
with this, or it could be better this way. And I feel like that is
perhaps missing from a lot of marriages, where it's like, never
speak about it again, you know, what happens happens? You just
carry on and go and go the other way. So, you know, I guess, you
know, Islamically, there's no exact guidance on in terms of
there's no strict ruling right on, okay. It needs to happen this way.
It needs to be this this much. No quantities in that sense. But what
would your just general advice be to couples in terms of bringing
this up, which again, could be a bit awkward, especially if you've
been raised that way? To never speak about it that could stick
throughout marriage as well? Yeah, I think it's difficult to
generalize about all men and all women. But in general, I think the
women is women are going to be shy, especially if they've come
from a very religious kind of upbringing to say to the husband
that, you know, this is what I want, or this is what I really
enjoy. So I think there's a few things I think, number one, the
man needs to see what, because you see, this is a very interactive
act, right? It's an interaction. And you can see what you do is
have what effect it's having having. So check for voice check
for movement, check for expressions on the face, check for
sounds, all of those are clues, you have to be really in tune
here, right? To do this.
She may be very shy to articulate what she wants. So then ask her
what she likes. Do you like this do something and say, Do you like
this? Right? What makes you feel better? What would you like me to
do? Check, check all of these movements and everything. Right?
And likewise, with the woman on the same, it's like we're making
woman out to be very, very shy, sometimes it's actually the guy is
very shy. Right? So it couldn't be both ways. So really, I think if
you just think of it in a selfless way, with me wanting to give the
other person pleasure, and make them satisfied. I think that focus
in itself, just separating it out from you and saying the other
person that in itself will make a big, big difference. Inshallah.
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, like, like was saying is that when
it comes to a lot of men not not generalizing, and saying every
single man, but it's almost like men are very kind of goal
oriented. They just, you know, they just want to achieve
something, and it's done. And I think for the woman, from the
woman's perspective, it's more of it's more of a experience from
beginning to end, you know, from the first moment that you look at
the man or you, you touch him, it's from there even until
afterwards as well. I feel like a lot of men, they're just like,
okay, job done kind of thing. And I'm off, whereas the woman wants
to spend some time with you now. And, you know, that is, I guess,
you know, it comes down to this whole thing about the difference
between, you know, just having sexual * versus making
love, right, you know, it's a concept that's spoken about, but
even psychologists today, and, you know, they bring this concept,
what's the difference between making love and giving love to
someone versus just, I want to just, you know, fulfill my design
that taught
me I think what it is is that people don't I mean for plays at
the forefront of all of this, right? Because after that the main
act is done. So fourthly, foreplay people in the understand that
talk can include talking, right just having sent a sensual talk,
kissing, massaging, touching, hugging fondling,
undressing, petting and so on. Right? Men shouldn't actually
mistake foreplay to mean groping the sexual parts of a woman in
some crude way. Like, women don't enjoy that, from the research
shows that women don't enjoy that man is going to think, man, that's
what gives me pleasure. But really, women don't like that, you
need to set the scene first, they need to be in the mood. Before
that part, you know, before that kind of activity becomes a sexual
sensual activity. Otherwise, just seen as like, I'm being abused
almost in a sense, groping is animalistic, but caressing is what
she needs. So there's a difference between those two, the whole body
is there to be appreciated, right? And so the other thing, what you
have to realize is that a lot of men, this is their complaint, that
she's not ready for it, she's always like, Oh, I'm gonna have to
take a shower. I'm gonna, my hair is not going to dry. And this is
an excuse. I mean, you see means about this as well. All right. And
subhanAllah, the research shows that if you make them feel like,
you know, if they enjoy the act with you, right, then they're
going to want to do it. Now, if it's just your way, and you're
just satisfying yourself, and the focus is not on the other person,
then there's going to be a reluctance, I don't know, it's
like, oh, man, I have to do it again, I have to go through that,
again, if you make them enjoy it, right, really, and you focus on
them, they will get ready, you know, they will should be ready.
Because why not, it's an enjoyable act for them as well. And, you
know, men, it's just a win, it's a win for you. And likewise, women,
it's a win for you, you know, you know, there's it reminds me of
another important aspect of all of this, you know, like foreplay is
one. But even before the act in terms of preparation, in terms of,
you know, adorning yourself, for your spouse, I think that's where
maybe a lot of men, again, women as well perhaps fall short on this
way, it's like, you know, I just come home from work, and I haven't
taken a shower, I'm not smelling great, I'm not looking great even.
And, you know, let's just get, you know, let's just get this done
kind of thing. So, you know, you've spoken about this in your
book, as well as the importance of adorning yourself and actually
making an effort for your spouse where, okay, after some time,
maybe it can become routine, it can become okay, it's the same
thing again, but should it really be like that? Should it be
routine? You know, shouldn't you make an effort and invest into it?
So what are your thoughts on just like, you know, adorning oneself
both the spouse is adorning themselves, that is important, but
I think if that becomes a routine, then it's kind of loses its fun, I
think as well. Because anything that becomes routine loses one, if
you're buying your wife flowers every week, the same old hours as
a gift. I mean, it's going to be like, come on, you know, like,
what is that? So I think adorning yourself,
I think everybody will figure their way. But I think every once
in a while, there needs to be something different to change the
scene. So I think adorning oneself going out and when I say men are
doing this, uh, we're not talking about putting makeup and all that
kind of stuff. It's in a manly way to be more manly, whereas for a
woman obviously adornment. I think the whole world knows about what a
woman's adornment is. So I think it needs to be done. They will be
obviously routine situations, you can't always waste your time
because there's just sometimes you don't have the time, right? It's
gonna be solid time or you have to go to work or something like that.
And you're just into it. You just woken up or something. So, yes,
but once in a while, you need to make a change of scene. I think
that's what it is. Make a change of scene whether that means being
by a drone. But yeah, you don't want to
be in a state that you put somebody else off. Yeah. Right.
And then you want to do it. That's like punishing someone you think?
Yeah, I think that's what I was more referring to sorry, in terms
of just being prepared for it, you know, things like smelling decent,
you know, removing any unwanted hair and things like that. I think
that is something that as much as possible. You should try it.
Because I think we always as men, we always think Well, it's the
woman's job to take care of themselves and be thing and as
men, we're just men, right? We just to you know, leave ourselves
in whatever state. But there's that I think you mentioned in your
book as well, about the famous statement from even our bus or the
Dan Homer. Yes. About one thing you know him him. I like to do
that for my wife as well just does it? Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So. So
these are all I wanted to just come to, you know, moving on to
just some general etiquettes.
Bearing in mind when it comes to intimacy, you know, we've spoken a
bit about foreplay, we've spoken a bit about adorning oneself. So
what else should a man and woman keep in mind going forward? You
know, if they don't, if they aren't aware of these things, but
whether it's Islamic guidelines, or just general guidelines and
principles to bear in mind.
I think in terms of guidelines that we can, I don't want to get
into like small like, Is this allowed and is that allowed
because there's a lot of that stuff in there. But I think the
main guidelines is that we've got two things which is me
No.
No. *, which is essentially no, no entry into the back passage
or the no passage. And number two, no entry even into the front
passage when there's menstruation. Other than that, everything is
allowed. Even even during menstruation, you know, there's
desires are still there, you know. And so the the woman's body and
she can enjoy the Husband Husband can enjoy her from the entire body
except from navel to need just that part well with a cloth on so
even that part with a cloth on top, even that could be
a lot of a lot of women, the frustration they have is that my
husband, like one person called me and not call me there was a
question we had, at the end of one of our programs that I've just had
a child meeting probably a few months ago, three, four months
ago, and my husband wants it five times a week. Right? So my first
question was, mashallah, what are you feeding him? Like?
You know, what, what's going on here. So then another thing that
men and women, they should realize that sometimes the women are not
in a mood, right tries, you might I mean, come on, people are human
beings, these are human beings, you're not in the mood, you know,
you take people to good restaurants, or for good fun
activity, football, whatever, right. But sometimes they just not
in the mood, it's fine. It's understandable. And that's why you
should respect that. Now, a woman should also understand that if I'm
not in the moods, right, because generally, the demand is going to
come from the husband, that's why I talk about the women, you know,
you don't have to go the full way you can tell your husband, look,
I'm really not in the mood, I'm just I've got a splitting
headache, or whatever the case is, but you can use your hands, you
can use another part of your body to satisfy them. And they should
be the openness and that respect that okay, you know, if they're
not in the mood, then yes, the Hadith says that they should be
ready. Even if they're at the cooker, that's understandable.
That's in a normal circumstance. Of course, if they're sick or
whatever, that doesn't mean that must still go, Nobody says that.
And
so one has to be clear about that, that don't just demand this in
that way, that they better be ready, whatever you want. And
that's just my one, right? That I've always asked you for, and you
don't give it to me, and then it just creates a problem. And the
wife should just try to accommodate what one woman said is
that,
really, from experience, she said that look, sometimes when it comes
to women, they don't want to take the children to school in the
morning, it's cold or whatever. But once you get wrapped up, and
then you go, it's fine afterwards. Men, you know, sometimes you don't
want to go to work in the morning, but you just have to do it. So
sometimes it may be a task. And that's fine to fulfill the other
person, because sometimes one of the spouses is really needs it
because of some experience or whatever the case is, it's been
several days and the other person
is going through some stress. So they don't really need it, but
just be selfless, and at least fulfill the other person's right.
You don't have to go the full way. But there's a lot of other ways we
have all of that permission to do that. So that's something that's
another strategy. Yeah, I think that's a good summary, actually,
in terms of
kind of track trying to be balanced here. So not, you know,
going going to one extreme of like, demanding and, you know,
quoting Heidi's and in a threatening almost the other, but
at the same time, not, you know, completely disengaging, but trying
you know, okay, there's going to be some times where you just both
have to be understanding and say, it may be it's not going to happen
today, you know, we'll try again, another time, tomorrow, whatever.
But then other times where, you know, you just just try and, you
know, fulfill that desire, try and, you know, please your spouse,
just, and of course, I'm sure you know, there's great reward in that
as well. Right? You know, just with that intention of pleasing
the spouse, you will get a lot of reward and just keeping that in
mind. Inshallah, you know, with a correct intention, it's actually
an act of worship in that sense. So, and I guess that that's where
the beauty of our deen comes in, you do something the lawful way.
Like you mentioned, the Hadith, there's great reward in that you
do it with the intention of pleasing your spouse. There's
great reward in that. And I guess that's, you know, something that
many of us can can bear in mind going forward as opposed to it
just being an act and and that's it moving on. So yeah, that
that's, that's a really important part. Is there any other
etiquettes or guide guidelines? Yeah, that's so it's holistically
looking.
Even with men, sometimes they realize that if the woman has been
on her menstruation, and she's not had a fulfillment for a while,
she's going to be ready soon. You may not feel in the mood of it
because, you know, maybe, sometimes, I mean, when you have a
lot of stress or whatever, you've got some project at work or
something, people like they're not
In the mudra, because their mind is somewhere else. So that's fine.
Think of it as a sadaqa. It's a charity. So when the Prophet saw
some said it's a charity for men, he was talking to men. So that's
where he said it to men. It's a charity for women as well. Why
isn't it a charity for her if she gives them the satisfaction, so
it's a charity for both of them. So if a man sees that his wife is
going to need it, and she's mashallah caressing him, or
whatever the case is, he may be busy, but he needs to also show
that, you know, I'm willing to overcome my stress, and maybe I'm
not interested in it, but I'm going to do it for you only. That
would. That's a really powerful message. That's a really powerful
message to the woman. And I think the other thing that we probably
need to cover here is being
expectations that are not halal, even, you know, because
unfortunately, a lot of people have learned some of this stuff
through *, right? Where they are learning from, and you
get a lot of people complain that this is what my spouse generally
demand is, wants me to do this? And he wants me to do that. And is
it halal? Or is it haram? One has to you know, if you're, if you're
into *, or whatever, you should read the research up there
as to what really happens, there's a lot of good writing, that tells
you what really goes on behind the scene, I had to do some research
on this because I have to talk about *. And what
actually goes on behind the scene. It's not realistic. They, they
they just add a lot of different things. It's cut bits of
information that it shows like, you know, maybe the guy can go on
for this match, or they add in other women or whatever the cases
that they do. So that's not all realistic. And how does one come
out of that because if somebody is years and years from maybe a
teenager, that's what they've been seeing and they just can't wait
when they get away. You know, maybe they're religious somewhat
that they have some Dakota in the sense that they've not gotten into
haram relationship, but when they've gotten properly married,
now they're really want to go all the way and kind of immediately
there are a lot of there are a lot of marriages that struggle with
this, have had the case of where he wants to do this. He wants to
do that and you know that it has to come from monography so how do
you get out of that? So there's a really beautiful to write which is
not just for this, it's for so many things Allahu mfine be halal
and haram ik what other Nene before the Lika I'm an SI work you
know, maybe you can put this up on the screen you know, Allahu mfine
be halal and haram Ik was an ini before the Leka admin see work
whenever you have these desires that are unnatural, that are haram
or whatever, right?
Oh, Allah suffice me with the halal away from the haram. So give
me the pleasure and satisfaction and sufficiency in what's Halal
away from the haram.
And just make me independent of everybody besides you. This could
work where a person is currently looking at others, right? Not
satisfied with their own wife or their own husbands looking at
others. This to our insha Allah is very, very powerful. At the same
time.
There are some men or women, in fact, you'd be surprised. I mean,
generally you think it's women who are like this that are very
prudish, they're very reserved, very restrictive, and they don't
want to do even Halal things. They're not willing to even go
beyond kind of the missionary position as such. And in this day
and age where there's just Subhanallah, so many other things
available, whatever is halal. I always say to couples, whatever is
halal husband and wife. You should you should be willing to do it.
Whatever is halal, right. And if it's halal, you should do it for
your spouse. Okay haram you completely avoid there's one
person who called and they were going to divorce she didn't want
to deal with the husband anymore number of reasons but one big
reason is that he always wants it in the back as he says that is
only what gives me satisfaction nothing else I can't
that's a that's a really bad I said that is a no go area that's
haram you can't do that there's this punishment so penalties
mentioned for that that's a no go area. So she she mashallah wound
of Taqwa. She just we she just didn't want to be in that marriage
anymore. Right. So having you know, as do everything that's
allowed. You don't want to do haram but but don't be too
reserved either. Do everything dignified. That's allowed? Yeah,
that's the thing. I think, nowadays when we say You know, you
mentioned like *, but actually, to be honest, you know,
one doesn't even need to watch *. To actually, you
know, get get a glimpse of these things. It's just unfortunately,
plastered all over. You're watching a normal mainstream.
Exactly right. So so you know, when people hear that they might
think I suffered a lot. I don't watch *, but actually,
you watch some of the talent
Isn't shows nowadays and that is what they're showing. So you can't
be surprised when, you know when, when, when, when people are their
minds are polluted with these things.
So no, definitely I think there's there's one other principle I
wanted to touch on actually share, which is
nowadays because especially because of social media, we have a
whatsapp groups Telegram, whatever, friends, circles and so
on, which is this principle of you know what happens in the bedroom
and basically stays in the bedroom? Because there's a lot of
pressure, you know, you're the first friend to get married in
your circle. And everyone's like, oh, so tell us, you know, this
tell us that. And this is gossip thing that goes around, you know,
there's almost like this pressure nowadays, like, okay, tell us
that, you know, Reveal Secret reveal those intimate secrets from
your bedroom. And I've actually seen this, and it's quite
alarming, in fact, where people feel pressure to share these
details. So if you could just just touch on this as well, like, you
know, what's the importance of not actually sharing this? You know,
some people could just be like, Why? Why would you want to share
it for anyway, but it happens. That's the reality. Yeah, I guess
we're living in a Facebook world where
everything you do, you know, people have lost a sense of
barrier and taboo and the private becomes public. That that is
completely haram. I mean, the prophets, a lot of them didn't
even leave that part alone, the Prophet salallahu Salam spoke
about how blameworthy a person is who does whatever he does in the
privacy of his own home, and then goes and reveals it the next day.
It's just sad. I mean, remember, there's another person here,
you're not just talking about your own kind of pursuit, your own
activity, there's somebody else there as well. So it's haram
anyway, it's wrong to do that. Anyway. It's not something you
explained, public. displays of affection in Islam are not
allowed. I mean, walking around kissing your wife in public is not
allowed, even probably hugging her unless it's a very kind of, you
know, innocent hug and not sexual hug. You know, even that, in
itself is problematic. So to speak about intimate details is
definitely a taboo, you're violating your spouse's privacy as
well. All right. And that that is a sin in itself. And that's
something that really, really needs to be avoided. I
Alhamdulillah, I've never had to be in that part of in that kind of
conversation. But I know it definitely happens, because other
people have mentioned it, that there is a pressure upon them. And
you just you just have to have your barrier. That's your barrier.
That's your limit. You do not discuss that you just avoid the
question and just carry on and
you know, maybe you don't need those kinds of friends if you if
that's what's gonna happen. But it's wrong. It's, you'll take the
baraka and blessing up, your your spouse will be feel violated. All
right. Be careful. You know what, really be careful about your
friends. Right? Especially the mischievous friends. They may be
good friends of yours. But sometimes it can really wreck the
first night I had a case where
it's a woman, she was told by her,
a friend of hers to give a certain gift to her husband, it was a box
that they prepared. And it was some really, I can't remember what
it was some really weird stuff. And she's very innocent. She
thought, okay, you know, she's a very mashallah innocent woman. And
she goes and gives it to us when he opens and he's unhappy.
Right? Like, didn't you think about this? I couldn't even think
about it. And she did it, you know, in a very innocent way that
Oh, it's a traditional, I don't know what the story is. Be careful
about these things.
Yeah, it's you're right. It's
unfortunately, sometimes even friends can become intrusive,
almost in that sense, as well, where they want to know and it
gets get it get, it gets a bit messy. And I completely understand
what you saying. I think that's that's definitely a good piece of
advice. So yeah, that is another important one, which is basically
what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom, you don't share
those intimate details. But apart from that, I mean, from what
you've clarified, again, it's it's something that a lot of Muslims
may be thinking the younger Muslims today, it's like Islam is
restricts us, you know, it's no fun being a Muslim. Okay, you get
married. And that's that kind of thing. You know, you're the kind
of people that make jokes about it, that's you're married, you're
locked away. Now. life's over. And I think that is problematic,
because not only is it putting Muslims off getting married in the
first place, but they almost feel like they're missing out on
something. You know, once they are married, and once they get
involved, they feel like I'm missing out, maybe it would have
been more fun. Had I done X gone down this route or that route?
That is a problem. It's all relative. I think at the end of
the day, if you've surrounded yourself with haram, and you've
been engaging in Haram, then the limits of Islam are going to seem
like they encroaching on you that they're very restrictive because
you don't have restrictions. It's a relative idea. And Islam is the
religion for this world. This world is not the ultimate life.
It's the life of the hereafter is the eventual infinite life. This
is a testing ground and I think if you forget that, and you
Try to see I think inherently humans are for Paradise we were
created in paradise or the Melissa was in paradise with Eve how Alia
Salaam and eventually we're going to end up in paradise, at least
the good ones. So I think Humans inherently love paradise. Now
Allah has told us that this paradise Subhanallah, this world
is not paradise for you. Right? The hereafter is paradise. But
then because humans are innately for Paradise, I think they forget
Allah subhanaw taala. That's a fitna, for them. That's a
temptation and challenge for them, they start making this world a
paradise, and then we're going into a more of a meta issue. So
then if you want just to have the pleasure of all of these, and
sexual pleasure is actually a huge pleasure. And you don't feel that,
you know, you don't have any too many limits. Maybe, okay, you
know, I'm not into homosexuality, maybe they say, but everything
else is fine for me. Right? Then obviously, you're gonna feel
restricted, but Subhan Allah, the pleasure that Allah has put into
marriage, if you've got it right, and you do it right, it will
surpass all of those things you won't feel left out. And that's
why this dua that I mentioned earlier, is very powerful in that
regard that Allah give me that satisfaction through Halal through
marriage, as opposed to something else. I guess there is another
reason for that, which is that it's a bit of a taboo subject.
It's the restriction of
men wanting more than, you know, one, it's kind of like a natural
feeling and men that they have, and the society doesn't allow it.
And because of that, there's a lot of frustration that men have.
Right, but that doesn't mean that you can cook. You can do haram,
that doesn't mean you can do haram.
Of course, yeah. You know, I'm conscious of time, Chef. But
before we conclude, was that, was there anything else that you
wanted to add? Even if it's concluding comments on this issue,
which, you know, of course, it's very broad, we can speak about so
many aspects here. The main thing for us was to highlight its
importance and its place in marriage in Islam as well. But was
there anything else you wanted to add? Before we conclude,
inshallah?
I think, just to complete a point that we started at the beginning,
which is that where do you learn about this stuff from so I was
saying that you don't learn about it necessarily, from friends,
because they've had different experiences. So we need a lot more
books, a lot more material, a lot more programs like this, to have a
sensible discussion about what's right and what's wrong. I mean, in
the mainstream market, there's a lot of books graphic details about
what they are what's not, but what we do need is a lot more Muslim
books. And mashallah, there is now a decent amount. In Arabic,
there's a lot more, but they've not been translated, and they're
quite in depth. But in English, we need a lot more. And I would say
that, you know, I do have a chapter of that in in the handbook
of healthy Muslim marriage. And then Mufti Mohammed, Al totally,
he's published that etiquette of, of sexual * is called
the Red Book. Right? All
right.
read those books. You know, check out podcasts like this. And I'm
sure there's a lot of other good stuff out there as well. That's
where you should be getting a nourishment. If you've got any
doubt about it, then contact somebody even if that's
anonymously contact, you know, for an answer from a religious site or
something, but don't suffer in silence. If you've got problems in
your marriage, you'd rather deal with it sooner than later. Because
that is really important. I mean, there was a shake of the past I
forget his name, was it IGNOU Khalil or,
or one of the famous grammarians or Hadith scholars or whatever he
says, Sometimes I would get a mental block. Right? You know,
when you have a cloud, and you just can't write and you can't
think, and he says, I would call one of my wives or whatever it
was, and I would have sexual * and then after that, a
super sub done, which means that I would just pour out the knowledge,
sexual * is very satisfying, right? It's a Halal
means. And it can release it releases numerous chemicals, the
would you call it the various different happy, love chemicals,
satisfaction, gives you, oxytocin, and dopamine. And all of that is
released at that time, it's good for you. Right? If you do it in
the halal way, and Allah has designed it that way, it's a
sadaqa. So may Allah allow us to make it a sadhaka and make it a
means of improving the family life so that there's more stability in
the home, there's less aggravation and frustration, and mashallah,
we, we, we do this in a healthy way and contribute to the
community and may Allah bless us with pious and righteous children.
I mean, I mean, I just wanted to just end by just reminding
everyone about the book, The Handbook of a healthy Muslim
culture, where can we get hold of a copy of this book?
There's quite a few places but I mean, you can get it from the
publisher directly white thread press.com And you can even get the
red book on there as well together, right with this one. So,
that will be so satisfying inshallah. Inshallah, once again
for your time, I'm really glad that we were able to have this
conversation, I think in Charlotte. So to start off,
definitely not the start. But you know, in terms of the online
platforms that we have, it's definitely good to have an open
conversation and for our viewers and listeners, we hope you enjoyed
and benefited from this. do reach out if you have any questions like
the chef said, and thank you so much. May Allah bless you all.
That is all we have time for from myself, Chavez and from Chef Dr.
Abdul Rahman Gara. We'll see you another time. And sha Allah take
care of yourselves. Salam alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh when it
comes to long run