Zakir Naik – Laxman a Pakistani Hindu Challenges on the Bhagavad Gita

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Assalamualaikum Dr. Sahab, my name is Laxman.

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Dr. Sahab, you once told in India or

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somewhere in your speech that the Shruti and

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Simrath Shastras are better to follow the Shruti

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Shastras, that means to follow the Vedas.

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But I am following Shreemad Bhagavad Gita because

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we believe that when Lord Krishna came, he

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told that the last book is the song

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of Lord Krishna, that is Shreemad Bhagavad Gita.

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So I follow that.

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So according to you, the way you say

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that you follow Vedas, so my question to

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you is that, as a Muslim, the last

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book of Prophet Mohammad, who is believed to

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have received the revelation, who is believed to

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have received mercy for the whole world, so

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you follow the Quran.

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So if you follow the last book of

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God, then you are perfect.

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And if I follow Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, then

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you say that I am imperfect.

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Brother, this is a very good question of

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Laxman.

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He says that I have said in my

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speech in India that there are two types

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of books in Hinduism, Shruti and Smriti.

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Shruti means which comes directly from God and

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Smriti means written by humans.

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Shruti, which comes from God, is the higher

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book.

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If there is a clash between Shruti and

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Smriti, then we will follow Shruti, the book

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of God, rather than Smriti, which is the

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book of humans.

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Brother asks that I follow Bhagavad Gita, which

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is the last book.

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You follow the Quran, which is the last

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book of Muhammad, then why is there a

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difference?

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Brother, you have a little misunderstanding.

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The Quran is not the book of Muhammad.

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It is the book of God, sorry.

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Absolutely right.

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It is a small mistake, no problem.

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So, if I say to a Hindu, what

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will come from God?

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It will come in Shruti.

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We say that it is the book of

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God.

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If there is a clash between the book

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of God and the words of the Prophet,

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then we will follow the Quran.

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The book of God is the book of

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Hadith, and there will never be a clash

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in the Quran.

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But sometimes, the Hadith is weak, and if

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there is a clash, then the Hadith cannot

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be right.

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But we should follow both the Quran and

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the Hadith.

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But the Quran is at a higher level.

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Sir, in the way that the Smriti Shastra

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is, the meaning of Smriti is to remember.

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So, if I talk from your perception, then

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the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

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So, he used to remember it and then

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recite it.

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So, you also follow the Smriti Shastra.

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This is my caution.

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No, we remember both.

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We remember the Quran and the Hadith.

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But in remembering, we know that the Quran

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is the book of God.

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There are many examples, many proofs.

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I have given a lecture, the Quran is

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the book of God.

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We remember both.

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If we cannot prove it by remembering, then

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it cannot be right.

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There is a hadith, he will say, I

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have heard from him, from so and so,

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then the Sahaba will go to them, then

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to the Sahaba, then to the Prophet of

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Allah.

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In the same way, I have learned from

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my father, from his teacher, then to the

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Sahaba, then to the Prophet of Allah.

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You understand?

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So, the way to remember both is the

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same.

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But one is the book of God, one

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is the saying of the Prophet, and the

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deeds of the Prophet, that is called Hadith.

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So, there is a difference in both.

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Both are remembered.

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But one is from God, one is from

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the Prophet.

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So, sir, in the same way, our book,

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Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, is the first priority, which

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is your Quran-e-Majid.

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So, in the same way, the perfect one

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in remembrance, that is called Shreemad Bhagavad Gita.

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I know.

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But, if you ask any Hindu scholar, ask

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him, whether Shruti is higher or Asmriti, he

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will say Shruti.

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Bhagavad Gita, sir, can also be found in

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Shruti Shastra.

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Because, according to Vedas, our Shri Krishna is

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the avatar of God.

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So, when God himself said Bhagavad Gita, then

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how will it count in remembrance?

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Ask your priest.

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Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavad Gita is one part of

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Mahabharata.

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Yes, I know, I know.

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I am the follower of Prabhupada.

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Correct.

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You have read Swami Prabhupada's Gita.

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Translation.

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And from him, my Shri Krishan, Shri Krishan

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Mission, ISKCON.

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ISKCON, yes.

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From him, I had a one-to-one

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discussion.

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Sorry, sorry, sir.

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He also accepted that it is Asmriti.

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But, what did Swami Prabhupada say?

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Prabhupada, yes.

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What did he say?

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Bhagavad Gita is the nectar of Vedas.

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Yes.

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Nectar of Vedas means Nectar of Vedas.

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Sir, you will talk or I will talk?

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Sorry, sir.

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You asked the question, I let you ask.

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Should I answer or you?

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You will answer.

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So, Swami Prabhupada says, he says that Vedas,

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the way it is sung, the way it

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is sung, it is Bhagavad Gita.

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Correct.

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He says, I believe it or not, it

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is different.

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So, I said to him, there is one

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Asmriti, which is from Bhagavan, written by one

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person.

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If a person writes can it be better

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than Bhagavan's book?

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And the answer is no.

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No, not at all, sir.

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If Bhagavan's book is Quran Majeed, a person

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will summarize it and write it.

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There is no translation of Quran.

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There is not a single part of Quran.

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So, the translation is from a human being.

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Quran is the most untranslatable book in the

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world.

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Because Quran is such a great book, when

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a person translates it, he tries to give

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a glimpse of it.

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So, no one can say that Quran's translation

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is better than Quran's.

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No one can.

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So, when I argued, the doctor said, you

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are absolutely right, but this is our belief.

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So, I said to him, If you contradict

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Vedas, in which book will you believe?

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You should believe in Vedas only.

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If you don't contradict, then it's a different

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matter.

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Are you understanding?

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So, Vedas is the highest book.

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The highest book is Vedas.

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After Vedas comes Upanishads.

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In Smriti, in Smriti, Bhagavad Gita is the

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highest.

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In Smriti.

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But it's not higher than Shruti.

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If some people believe that it's higher than

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Shruti, it's their misunderstanding.

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What can I do?

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Are you understanding?

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If someone believes with a misunderstanding, what can

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I do?

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This is the saying of Hindu scholars.

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Not my saying.

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So, a person thinks wrongly, that's his thinking.

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Are you understanding?

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But whether you believe in Shruti, in Bhagavad

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Gita or in Vedas.

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It's also written in Bhagavad Gita.

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Chapter number 6, verse number 20.

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Those who are entangled with material things, they

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worship demigods.

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Chapter number 7, verse number 18, 19, 20.

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Open it and see.

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This is the translation of Prabhupada.

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Those who worship demigods, they will go to

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the demigods.

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They are materialistic people.

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And this word is a materialistic translation of

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Swami Prabhupada.

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From Sanskrit.

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This is chapter number 9, sorry.

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Verse number 25.

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Not that, not that.

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Look at chapter number 7.

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Why are you opening chapter number 9?

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Do you think there is a difference between

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7 and 9?

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This is a good thing.

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I am quoting 7, you are going to

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9.

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Yes, but I am not the worshipper of

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demigods.

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Demigods are different.

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What did I tell you?

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What I said is right, isn't it?

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Yes, absolutely perfect.

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So, why are you taking people to another

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place?

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No, no, sir.

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Brother, brother, Lakshman brother.

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At least support me.

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I am quoting chapter number 7, not chapter

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number 9.

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I don't have a book.

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I am talking with my brain.

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Right?

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So, if I quote 7, you tell me,

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no, no, doctor, chapter number 9.

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Brother, I am also a student of Bhagavad

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Gita.

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Right?

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Okay.

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I am not Swami Prabhupada, but I am

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also a student.

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Am I not?

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Yes.

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I am quoting from my brain.

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Right?

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So, when I am quoting chapter 7, why

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are you going to chapter 9?

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But I felt that the shlokas that you

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quoted, that those who worship ghosts will go

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to the ghosts, and those who worship spirits

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will go to the spirits.

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So, my devotees will come to me.

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Absolutely right.

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So, that is why neither do we worship

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ghosts, nor do we worship spirits, nor do

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we worship my ancestors, nor do we worship

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demigods.

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So, Bhagavad Gita says that we worship Krishna.

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So, do you believe that worshipping ghosts is

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wrong?

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No.

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Worshipping Krishna is perfect according to Bhagavad Gita.

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Chapter number 12.

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When Arjun asked, whom should I worship?

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So, Bhagavan said in chapter number 12, in

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the second shloka, that if someone worships my

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form, then that is very free for me.

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So, that is why I follow Bhagavad Gita.

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That means there is a contradiction in Bhagavad

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Gita.

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Just now you said that in Bhagavad Gita

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it is written that worshipping ghosts is wrong.

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I did not say that, sir.

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Your Swami Prabhupada has said this.

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Worshipping demigods is an unintelligent manner.

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I am not following demigods.

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Sorry.

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Only Krishna.

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I follow Krishna.

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Monotheism.

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Not polytheism.

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I do not believe in God.

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I only believe in one.

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Sorry.

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If you read the footnote of demigod, it

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is written that idol worship also.

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Yes.

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I do not worship demigods.

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Do you worship idols?

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According to you, idol is to make an

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idol.

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But according to me, idol is to worship

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Krishna.

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I am not going to follow you.

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I am just asking.

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We are not arguing now.

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This is not a debating time.

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Okay, sir.

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Sorry.

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If you do not interfere in between, then

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people will understand.

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Okay, fine.

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You believe that worshipping demigods is wrong.

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You do it.

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What am I talking about?

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What am I doing?

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I do not worship demigods.

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Sir, I gave you a chance to ask

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questions.

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Do you want to debate with me?

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Breaking this rule is a good thing.

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You break our rule.

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Do it.

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Do it or not?

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No, sir.

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You speak now.

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I will listen.

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And I am patient because my non-Muslim

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brother is standing in front of me.

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My Hindu brother is standing in front of

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me.

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If he was a Muslim, then what?

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If he was a Muslim, then what?

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I used to say, get lost.

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Because you are my guest of honor.

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I am patient.

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I am respecting you.

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But respecting does not mean that all of

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you have time.

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Thousands of people are here.

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Am I right?

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I am just talking about Vedas.

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I am talking about Bhagavad Gita.

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If there is a clash between Bhagavad Gita

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and Vedas.

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It is written in Vedas.

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Vedas is our Upanishad.

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Chapter no.

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4, verse no.

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19.

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Yajurved.

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Chapter no.

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32, verse no.

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3.

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Pratima means Aksh.

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If we translate it, it becomes photograph, painting,

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idol, statue.

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There is no God.

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There is no God.

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There is no Pratima.

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There is no photograph.

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There is no painting.

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There is no picture.

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There is no idol.

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There is no sculpture.

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Now I am quoting Vedas.

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If there is a clash between Vedas and

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Bhagavad Gita.

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Then according to Hinduism, you should follow Vedas.

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You don't do it.

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What do I do?

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I can't force you.

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I follow Bhagavad Gita.

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Do it.

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Whoever you want to follow, do it.

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But I can tell you what I know

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about knowledge.

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You want to follow Bhagavad Gita.

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You want to follow Swami Prabhupada.

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You want to ask Swami Prabhupada.

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I can't stop you.

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I can only say that this is written

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in your book.

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You want to follow it.

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Follow it.

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You don't want to do it.

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Don't do it.

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Because it is written in Quran.

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You can't force anyone in religion.

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I can talk to you.

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If you agree, it is a good thing.

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If you don't agree, I will say.

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No problem.

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I won't fight with you.

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Right?

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Thank you.

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You go and investigate again.

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Right?

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What is my criteria?

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If anyone wants to debate with me, why

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should I fight with him?

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People will say that Zakir is debating with

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a kid.

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I also have respect.

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Don't I have respect?

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I have heard you.

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You are talking again.

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You are talking again.

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Your Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.

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Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.

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Millions of people consider him as God.

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Do you know that?

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No.

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You don't consider him as God.

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You don't consider him as God.

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You are a devotee of Krishna.

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Yes, sir.

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You are a devotee of whom?

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You are a devotee of Krishna.

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But I debated with Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.

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Millions of people consider him as God.

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He said that he kept the Bhagavad Gita

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at the age of four.

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In my debate, not a single person said

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anything about the Bhagavad Gita.

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At the age of four?

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By memory?

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Right, sir.

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If you want to have a debate with

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me, my budget is of 10 lakhs.

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Bring at least 2 percent.

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20,000.

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Any Hindu can do up to 20,000.

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If you want to debate with me, I

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will do it.

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20,000 for one sitting.

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Right?

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And there are many Hindus.

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Your Jaggi Vasudev.

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Your Ramdev Baba.

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Your Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.

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Even if you give them a million dollars,

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they will not debate with me.

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They have done it by mistake.

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Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.

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And they are regretting.

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If I debate with you, people will say

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that you are debating with a child.

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Understood?

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But I request you to read the Quran.

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Your Swami Prabhupada says that reading the Quran

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is haram.

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He does not say that, right?

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He does not say that, sir.

00:14:56 --> 00:14:57

I have a request.

00:14:58 --> 00:14:59

I have a request.

00:14:59 --> 00:15:00

I have a wish.

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I have a wish from my younger brother.

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At least read the translation of the Quran.

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It is not necessary to believe it.

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No.

00:15:08 --> 00:15:08

Understood?

00:15:09 --> 00:15:10

You have given me so many hours.

00:15:11 --> 00:15:11

I have given you time.

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I have a request.

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Read the Quran with an open heart.

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After that, there is no compulsion.

00:15:18 --> 00:15:19

If you do not want to believe it,

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do not believe it.

00:15:20 --> 00:15:21

You do not have to.

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The way I read the Bhagavad Gita.

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Yes.

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Not once, but many times.

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And I like the Bhagavad Gita of Swami

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Prabhupada the most.

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Thank you, sir.

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Understood?

00:15:32 --> 00:15:33

Thank you.

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At least read the Quran once.

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Inshallah, I will read it.

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Inshallah.

00:15:37 --> 00:15:38

I will wait for it.

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Inshallah.

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Thank you.

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JazakAllah.

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May Allah grant you wisdom.

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JazakAllah.