Zakir Naik – Laxman a Pakistani Hindu Challenges on the Bhagavad Gita
AI: Summary ©
The speakers discuss the differences between the title of God and the title of Shruti in the Bible. They emphasize the importance of remembering the titles and use of Shruti in various titles. They also discuss the differences between chapter 7 and 9 in a book and encourage people to follow the rules and investigate the history of the topic. They also mention a budget of 10 lakhs for a debate and encourage people to read the Quran with an open heart.
AI: Summary ©
Assalamualaikum Dr. Sahab, my name is Laxman.
Dr. Sahab, you once told in India or
somewhere in your speech that the Shruti and
Simrath Shastras are better to follow the Shruti
Shastras, that means to follow the Vedas.
But I am following Shreemad Bhagavad Gita because
we believe that when Lord Krishna came, he
told that the last book is the song
of Lord Krishna, that is Shreemad Bhagavad Gita.
So I follow that.
So according to you, the way you say
that you follow Vedas, so my question to
you is that, as a Muslim, the last
book of Prophet Mohammad, who is believed to
have received the revelation, who is believed to
have received mercy for the whole world, so
you follow the Quran.
So if you follow the last book of
God, then you are perfect.
And if I follow Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, then
you say that I am imperfect.
Brother, this is a very good question of
Laxman.
He says that I have said in my
speech in India that there are two types
of books in Hinduism, Shruti and Smriti.
Shruti means which comes directly from God and
Smriti means written by humans.
Shruti, which comes from God, is the higher
book.
If there is a clash between Shruti and
Smriti, then we will follow Shruti, the book
of God, rather than Smriti, which is the
book of humans.
Brother asks that I follow Bhagavad Gita, which
is the last book.
You follow the Quran, which is the last
book of Muhammad, then why is there a
difference?
Brother, you have a little misunderstanding.
The Quran is not the book of Muhammad.
It is the book of God, sorry.
Absolutely right.
It is a small mistake, no problem.
So, if I say to a Hindu, what
will come from God?
It will come in Shruti.
We say that it is the book of
God.
If there is a clash between the book
of God and the words of the Prophet,
then we will follow the Quran.
The book of God is the book of
Hadith, and there will never be a clash
in the Quran.
But sometimes, the Hadith is weak, and if
there is a clash, then the Hadith cannot
be right.
But we should follow both the Quran and
the Hadith.
But the Quran is at a higher level.
Sir, in the way that the Smriti Shastra
is, the meaning of Smriti is to remember.
So, if I talk from your perception, then
the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad.
So, he used to remember it and then
recite it.
So, you also follow the Smriti Shastra.
This is my caution.
No, we remember both.
We remember the Quran and the Hadith.
But in remembering, we know that the Quran
is the book of God.
There are many examples, many proofs.
I have given a lecture, the Quran is
the book of God.
We remember both.
If we cannot prove it by remembering, then
it cannot be right.
There is a hadith, he will say, I
have heard from him, from so and so,
then the Sahaba will go to them, then
to the Sahaba, then to the Prophet of
Allah.
In the same way, I have learned from
my father, from his teacher, then to the
Sahaba, then to the Prophet of Allah.
You understand?
So, the way to remember both is the
same.
But one is the book of God, one
is the saying of the Prophet, and the
deeds of the Prophet, that is called Hadith.
So, there is a difference in both.
Both are remembered.
But one is from God, one is from
the Prophet.
So, sir, in the same way, our book,
Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, is the first priority, which
is your Quran-e-Majid.
So, in the same way, the perfect one
in remembrance, that is called Shreemad Bhagavad Gita.
I know.
But, if you ask any Hindu scholar, ask
him, whether Shruti is higher or Asmriti, he
will say Shruti.
Bhagavad Gita, sir, can also be found in
Shruti Shastra.
Because, according to Vedas, our Shri Krishna is
the avatar of God.
So, when God himself said Bhagavad Gita, then
how will it count in remembrance?
Ask your priest.
Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavad Gita is one part of
Mahabharata.
Yes, I know, I know.
I am the follower of Prabhupada.
Correct.
You have read Swami Prabhupada's Gita.
Translation.
And from him, my Shri Krishan, Shri Krishan
Mission, ISKCON.
ISKCON, yes.
From him, I had a one-to-one
discussion.
Sorry, sorry, sir.
He also accepted that it is Asmriti.
But, what did Swami Prabhupada say?
Prabhupada, yes.
What did he say?
Bhagavad Gita is the nectar of Vedas.
Yes.
Nectar of Vedas means Nectar of Vedas.
Sir, you will talk or I will talk?
Sorry, sir.
You asked the question, I let you ask.
Should I answer or you?
You will answer.
So, Swami Prabhupada says, he says that Vedas,
the way it is sung, the way it
is sung, it is Bhagavad Gita.
Correct.
He says, I believe it or not, it
is different.
So, I said to him, there is one
Asmriti, which is from Bhagavan, written by one
person.
If a person writes can it be better
than Bhagavan's book?
And the answer is no.
No, not at all, sir.
If Bhagavan's book is Quran Majeed, a person
will summarize it and write it.
There is no translation of Quran.
There is not a single part of Quran.
So, the translation is from a human being.
Quran is the most untranslatable book in the
world.
Because Quran is such a great book, when
a person translates it, he tries to give
a glimpse of it.
So, no one can say that Quran's translation
is better than Quran's.
No one can.
So, when I argued, the doctor said, you
are absolutely right, but this is our belief.
So, I said to him, If you contradict
Vedas, in which book will you believe?
You should believe in Vedas only.
If you don't contradict, then it's a different
matter.
Are you understanding?
So, Vedas is the highest book.
The highest book is Vedas.
After Vedas comes Upanishads.
In Smriti, in Smriti, Bhagavad Gita is the
highest.
In Smriti.
But it's not higher than Shruti.
If some people believe that it's higher than
Shruti, it's their misunderstanding.
What can I do?
Are you understanding?
If someone believes with a misunderstanding, what can
I do?
This is the saying of Hindu scholars.
Not my saying.
So, a person thinks wrongly, that's his thinking.
Are you understanding?
But whether you believe in Shruti, in Bhagavad
Gita or in Vedas.
It's also written in Bhagavad Gita.
Chapter number 6, verse number 20.
Those who are entangled with material things, they
worship demigods.
Chapter number 7, verse number 18, 19, 20.
Open it and see.
This is the translation of Prabhupada.
Those who worship demigods, they will go to
the demigods.
They are materialistic people.
And this word is a materialistic translation of
Swami Prabhupada.
From Sanskrit.
This is chapter number 9, sorry.
Verse number 25.
Not that, not that.
Look at chapter number 7.
Why are you opening chapter number 9?
Do you think there is a difference between
7 and 9?
This is a good thing.
I am quoting 7, you are going to
9.
Yes, but I am not the worshipper of
demigods.
Demigods are different.
What did I tell you?
What I said is right, isn't it?
Yes, absolutely perfect.
So, why are you taking people to another
place?
No, no, sir.
Brother, brother, Lakshman brother.
At least support me.
I am quoting chapter number 7, not chapter
number 9.
I don't have a book.
I am talking with my brain.
Right?
So, if I quote 7, you tell me,
no, no, doctor, chapter number 9.
Brother, I am also a student of Bhagavad
Gita.
Right?
Okay.
I am not Swami Prabhupada, but I am
also a student.
Am I not?
Yes.
I am quoting from my brain.
Right?
So, when I am quoting chapter 7, why
are you going to chapter 9?
But I felt that the shlokas that you
quoted, that those who worship ghosts will go
to the ghosts, and those who worship spirits
will go to the spirits.
So, my devotees will come to me.
Absolutely right.
So, that is why neither do we worship
ghosts, nor do we worship spirits, nor do
we worship my ancestors, nor do we worship
demigods.
So, Bhagavad Gita says that we worship Krishna.
So, do you believe that worshipping ghosts is
wrong?
No.
Worshipping Krishna is perfect according to Bhagavad Gita.
Chapter number 12.
When Arjun asked, whom should I worship?
So, Bhagavan said in chapter number 12, in
the second shloka, that if someone worships my
form, then that is very free for me.
So, that is why I follow Bhagavad Gita.
That means there is a contradiction in Bhagavad
Gita.
Just now you said that in Bhagavad Gita
it is written that worshipping ghosts is wrong.
I did not say that, sir.
Your Swami Prabhupada has said this.
Worshipping demigods is an unintelligent manner.
I am not following demigods.
Sorry.
Only Krishna.
I follow Krishna.
Monotheism.
Not polytheism.
I do not believe in God.
I only believe in one.
Sorry.
If you read the footnote of demigod, it
is written that idol worship also.
Yes.
I do not worship demigods.
Do you worship idols?
According to you, idol is to make an
idol.
But according to me, idol is to worship
Krishna.
I am not going to follow you.
I am just asking.
We are not arguing now.
This is not a debating time.
Okay, sir.
Sorry.
If you do not interfere in between, then
people will understand.
Okay, fine.
You believe that worshipping demigods is wrong.
You do it.
What am I talking about?
What am I doing?
I do not worship demigods.
Sir, I gave you a chance to ask
questions.
Do you want to debate with me?
Breaking this rule is a good thing.
You break our rule.
Do it.
Do it or not?
No, sir.
You speak now.
I will listen.
And I am patient because my non-Muslim
brother is standing in front of me.
My Hindu brother is standing in front of
me.
If he was a Muslim, then what?
If he was a Muslim, then what?
I used to say, get lost.
Because you are my guest of honor.
I am patient.
I am respecting you.
But respecting does not mean that all of
you have time.
Thousands of people are here.
Am I right?
I am just talking about Vedas.
I am talking about Bhagavad Gita.
If there is a clash between Bhagavad Gita
and Vedas.
It is written in Vedas.
Vedas is our Upanishad.
Chapter no.
4, verse no.
19.
Yajurved.
Chapter no.
32, verse no.
3.
Pratima means Aksh.
If we translate it, it becomes photograph, painting,
idol, statue.
There is no God.
There is no God.
There is no Pratima.
There is no photograph.
There is no painting.
There is no picture.
There is no idol.
There is no sculpture.
Now I am quoting Vedas.
If there is a clash between Vedas and
Bhagavad Gita.
Then according to Hinduism, you should follow Vedas.
You don't do it.
What do I do?
I can't force you.
I follow Bhagavad Gita.
Do it.
Whoever you want to follow, do it.
But I can tell you what I know
about knowledge.
You want to follow Bhagavad Gita.
You want to follow Swami Prabhupada.
You want to ask Swami Prabhupada.
I can't stop you.
I can only say that this is written
in your book.
You want to follow it.
Follow it.
You don't want to do it.
Don't do it.
Because it is written in Quran.
You can't force anyone in religion.
I can talk to you.
If you agree, it is a good thing.
If you don't agree, I will say.
No problem.
I won't fight with you.
Right?
Thank you.
You go and investigate again.
Right?
What is my criteria?
If anyone wants to debate with me, why
should I fight with him?
People will say that Zakir is debating with
a kid.
I also have respect.
Don't I have respect?
I have heard you.
You are talking again.
You are talking again.
Your Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
Millions of people consider him as God.
Do you know that?
No.
You don't consider him as God.
You don't consider him as God.
You are a devotee of Krishna.
Yes, sir.
You are a devotee of whom?
You are a devotee of Krishna.
But I debated with Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
Millions of people consider him as God.
He said that he kept the Bhagavad Gita
at the age of four.
In my debate, not a single person said
anything about the Bhagavad Gita.
At the age of four?
By memory?
Right, sir.
If you want to have a debate with
me, my budget is of 10 lakhs.
Bring at least 2 percent.
20,000.
Any Hindu can do up to 20,000.
If you want to debate with me, I
will do it.
20,000 for one sitting.
Right?
And there are many Hindus.
Your Jaggi Vasudev.
Your Ramdev Baba.
Your Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
Even if you give them a million dollars,
they will not debate with me.
They have done it by mistake.
Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
And they are regretting.
If I debate with you, people will say
that you are debating with a child.
Understood?
But I request you to read the Quran.
Your Swami Prabhupada says that reading the Quran
is haram.
He does not say that, right?
He does not say that, sir.
I have a request.
I have a request.
I have a wish.
I have a wish from my younger brother.
At least read the translation of the Quran.
It is not necessary to believe it.
No.
Understood?
You have given me so many hours.
I have given you time.
I have a request.
Read the Quran with an open heart.
After that, there is no compulsion.
If you do not want to believe it,
do not believe it.
You do not have to.
The way I read the Bhagavad Gita.
Yes.
Not once, but many times.
And I like the Bhagavad Gita of Swami
Prabhupada the most.
Thank you, sir.
Understood?
Thank you.
At least read the Quran once.
Inshallah, I will read it.
Inshallah.
I will wait for it.
Inshallah.
Thank you.
JazakAllah.
May Allah grant you wisdom.
JazakAllah.