Wael Ibrahim – Salvation in Christianity and Islam #2
AI: Summary ©
The conversation discusses the importance of forgiveness and how it is a system of promises. The speaker emphasizes the need for acceptance of God's words and actions, and highlights the significance of forgiveness in a system of promises. They also mention a study on the Bible where it is discussed how humans cannot achieve forgiveness and how forgiveness is a promises system. The conversation also touches on the phrase $1,000 for finding the verse in the Bible and how humans cannot achieve forgiveness.
AI: Summary ©
Question and you're gonna have 10 minutes. And well, you can ask your question after
about 10 minutes.
So
labor
of this service?
Yeah, no, it's been really good. Thank you so much. And it's always like one of the greatest things. Let me just tell you, when you mentioned the word *, even in Christianity, there is a lot of movement where people are afraid to talk about how, and they're frightened that they want to see the paradox, they want to see the good side. But I always find is really encouraging to know him on on the opposite side, there is also a reason there is actually something detrimental to when we talk about our eternal life and salvation. That keeps us separate. So thank you again, I think for us, we're all in agreement. That is it is it's something that the world tells us it's real. It's not a
figment of our imagination, or it's not something which we traverse where it's more equal. It's really
so I, for me, my my question comes through is, is, you know, you were talking about that reward system, and on a day of salvation, like when you're making a judgement. Now, maybe you could just say, how does it work? Because I know that it's, you know, it's, it's something that, you know, and how does that impact your day to day, you know, your worship right here? And the question that I have to that is,
and I think that's important to us is how is it shaped by the different culture? So I mean, is that is it similar? between, like, if you go to,
you know, like, the,
you go to your Arab Muslims, and you go to your Sudanese, for instance, would that count? Would that be very similar? Or is it shaped? Is there a part of it that is shaped according to the culture?
Thank you. I like what you see, when you go to your
kids, you
know, the Islam is one religion has got nothing to do really with culture. So we may adopt from cultures, a lot of things that can be in harmony with a religion, which does not conflict with their main teachings, and can adopt them and all that. So like that when you go to Africa, they dress a certain way. So long as the criteria of the dress code is fine, the colors, the hand, the scarves, the hat is absolutely acceptable. You go to Sudan, the wear usually white or black. That's the culture, but the criteria of the dress code is the same. Aside from that, everything else is almost the same. There are differences. Of course, there are things that would be debatable as well. There
are various sects that could do certain things that are not to be debated at the snap from Amazon, but as a whole, everything almost is the same. So you wake up in the morning, you have five daily prayers to perform no one debate that five times a lot five time prayers and they are to be performed on time. So the challenge is not to pray five times a day, the challenge is actually to pray on time. With the first prayer starts at today's 4:45am In the morning, as of doing ministry, now their reward system, similar to I work for a really good boss, and I do my heart to the company.
I wanted to please that boss as much as possible, because I know that he's so generous and when he sees me doing great job, it will also give me a bit of bonus here
and to God Almighty the highest example so God Almighty is our our master, when we worship God and in Islam, the word worship means either and other comes from another word means slavery or enslavement. So we enslave ourselves to God Almighty with the difference between me being a slave to God and me being a slave to another human being is great, there's a great difference. So I'm enslaving myself to someone or to a being that I love so much that I adore so much, then I trust so much that I will obey in every aspect of my life as he indicated in the Quran. When he slayed me to human beings, you guys came from South Africa, you know all about it.
So it's completely different. You hate your master you hate, you know, discrimination, you hate this and that. So the point is, that the reward is we're not doing the action to get the reward. We're doing the action for the sake of God. That's why this is one
Have the main phrases that we always as Muslims use, do it for the sake of God. So you're doing charity for the sake of Allah, not for the people, that people are benefiting anyway. But do it purely strictly for God Almighty not to be praised by others. Because if you've done it to be praised by others, if that's your main intention, then the reward that is awaiting you will be also modifying, and so on. So that's got nothing to do with cultures, there are differences in culture, but the main teachings, the main actions that are prescribing the Quran, and the food, the teaching of the process, and you will find them in almost every culture.
Thank you.
So the question I have is for my students, so those who didn't know that my students at the same time college, we visited this church a couple of weeks ago, right. Yeah, we enjoyed really a very nice day. And one of the questions was that, like, you mentioned here about the Justice part, if Adam and Eve did not ask me for eating from this fruit, and what's my fault being in this one thing? You answered half of it, but if you could elaborate on this, like, you know that I have no clue
that Adam and Eve will disobey God? Why should they be taken as hostage with that sin for us? Like, what have I done? I don't even recall, they haven't even consulted me. So this one thing is we need to clarify the other thing, why God Almighty would send an innocent person to die for some criminals or some sins.
All right. Those are two good questions. Let me just start by saying is that one of the great things is that we believe that
when Adam and Eve, that moment when that's unconscious, or sideways, when they sin when they disobey God,
to a point I would agree that they were immediately forgiven. We believe that even though Jesus came 2000, a couple 1000 years later, through eternity, that's how the whole process was already started. They were already included, there was not a second where they were out of God's reach out of his way, they were not. They were not separated for him. Because God in that moment, already knew. So the moment that he forgave him, he put, he knew that all of that was done through the death of recently of Jesus Christ. Now, that is a very tough question. When you think when I think about I had no hand in there, like I was a part of that I wasn't doing that. And they they're white, we see
it is the right word, is that and it's not that we are paying for atoms, and we don't, I'm not getting punished for eating of the fruit. So I think that's, that's very clear. God is also saying, you know, he's not punishing the Father, for Descendants of the fathers, each one for each other. That's actually true. That is actually true. What we are saying in that moment, and why I understand that is why I believe that is, in that moment. The sin was introduced to the world. So and we believe that even one sin cannot be swapped. So that's why we sell think about Jesus sake, but when you have one. So imagine you This is always a very simple one. And I've explained to the students at
school I said, Imagine you're making you an omelet. That's about all I can make of a kitchen, just so you know.
So you make an omelet, you have got a couple of eggs, you put the first deck in, put the second one in, you add some salt, you add some beds, you put the third one in, and then you put the fourth egg in, and that one is rotten, right? Absolutely disgusting. Smelling all that.
Would you eat that omelet?
And what we believe that's the simplest way is that the moment that sin was introduced to creation, it immediately infused every aspect it broke the grip, bring it there was a scatter between us and God and that's why we are not part of that we haven't caused a sin. But we are still in the outward so Adam and Eve made a decision and and we are living any impact of that. So Detweiler could be just I couldn't just wipe it on a table he had to repay. And I hope that's a good answer. And they reason and I guess the biggest challenge that I love, look, I think one of the highlights was being you've have amazing students and they are so inquisitive. Eyewitness love the way that they were asking
questions and that you really put me on my toes, right? So they were really going from all angles. I love that
The question is, and that's one of the greatest things. And we talked about why would someone, why would God sent someone who is sent this or who is
innocent Thank you,
to die for us. And I guess the first step coming back as for us, we believe the same of God. That was God's decision, God made that he created a system in which you recognize that the only way to go to redeem us is to Jesus Christ. Now, the way you said why you would do that is to us now as it sounds, you know, I think about if I have to sacrifice one of my kids, I would be devastated. To us, it shows the picture of God's love to us. But it also shows that through that, it was that even though I think that's the amazing thing is that even though God's saying Jesus Christ, you also knew that he had the power, that in the capacity and that for you to have confidence in that relationship
that he would not only send him, see him punish, see him die, but also to rise him back to life, and then returning to heaven. So what God does, that's one of the things sprogs that encouraged me, rightly, about our five in that space is that God was not looking at Jesus and God, you know, it hurts him to send his son in hurt. And he knew that was the way but he also in that space, so because he looks at it through the lens of eternity, right. So through eternity, you realize you knew, and they were in full agreement that Jesus was able to come down, complete that whole mission of fight all day, just to make light of rank on the whole brokenness that Adam entered into the
world that was right up there.
So that humans unite, if we choose to fire him, we're able to find a way into paradise into.
Awesome, thank you. And
I think we now are heading back to a dress because I think the coffee is ready.
Yes, indeed.
Well, let's give these to a close.
Thank you for the questions as well let us now it's over to it. You can still ask questions. We are running somewhat late tonight. So I don't think we'll give it a half 20 minutes at the bank? We're taking about 15 minutes for the
Yeah. And can I just challenge you, instead of just wanting to save the questions for us? Or someone we are? Or someone that's when we're having fellowship, just grab someone's shoulder and say, Hey, I wanted this question. So please, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. This is the greatest space. This is where you can ask questions and introduce yourself. Because we are all followers. And we are all able to give an answer for what we believe. So.
Okay, we've had 18 questions come through, we've got
10 minutes, I don't think we're going to be able to get through 17 or 18 questions in 10 minutes. So I'm going to take them somewhat chronologically, just from the top side, fortunately, and sorry for the people that are putting their questions live, we're probably not going to get to them.
So for the questions that are directed to me, I will be posting them on my page. So if you guys wanted to follow my Facebook page, where the where the image came, then I will answer those questions live or recorded. And I will put them on. So this to to help others. What you and I should do. We should make that recording as soon as
the great blanket together. Yeah, yeah, you've got a nice gadget, then we can do that.
Fantastic.
So that way, we get both sides.
And there's actually three questions that are fairly similar. So I'm going to ask the first question, but I'm also going to let you know about the other two questions. A lot of that is answer the first one I think you can possibly work in as well.
So in your speech, as well as many times heard by those speaking about Christianity, God has compared many times to a father.
How can you explain that God is our Creator, and above us all, when he's compared to one of his own creations
Now the reason I said it's related because the next questions are also related to
God, the Father and the definition around
a god. So please give us a definition of your God in your Christian belief. Thank you holiday. And
I love when you call God Father, but why you call it Jesus Son. So that may be a little bit different legislation.
I think the first thing is that one of the biggest mysteries to explain in our five if I can just start with the second one first is explaining, you know, who we believe we believe in God as one,
My Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I think one of the biggest challenges is to explain the Trinity into one.
But if I come back to the if I jumped to that first question,
one of the things that it took for us to be very clear about is that God is God. Right. And when I talk to him about Father, it is an attribute that he has made known to us. When I say his father, it shows how it, it's a revelation of God. So we have to think God is above us, he is superseding any of those things, he is perfect. He's always on my God, he's always on his is, he lives in a in a realm that you and I cannot fathom. So what he is trying to do it to you, when we talk about God our Father, He reveals that personal intimate nature of God, meaning that he is caring, that he is concerned in a way that the father, like, and this is the comparison. So I don't think of God. When
I say to the Father, that are diminishing of the character of God, rather than what I'm doing is God is what I'm seeing. What I'm believing is, God has no that he can't compete, you know, he can't, you know, he has not revealed in fully to us, but in a way for us to understand the relationship. And Scripture tells us that as a father is that you love his children. And that's, that's that's a that's a description of our relationship of how you know, we're USAID. He's like he's so input is so close to us in, you know, as a father, I love my kids dearly, and I would do anything for them.
That's so that is a way of describing that love.
Thank you.
I'm not sure if I will.
I was just as you were saying, I was thinking,
I think this is probably common
novelist because this comes from the Old Testament.
I've noticed that we often see God as placing something in his creation, so that we can understand that
nothing is created, so that we can understand who he is.
And that's kind of what
we're talking about. But thank you for that.
Question for you.
Can a Muslim have assurance of their salvation before they die?
Or do they have to wait to find out? Absolutely. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon himself very simple, few words to assure Muslims of their salvation. And this is another misconception that I encountered when, when talking, discussing with Christians in general, that they think that salvation is sent is not guaranteed. But actually the Prophet saw someone said, rwdsu ever said, La ilaha illAllah. The Halal Jana whoever said there is no God worthy of worship except Allah will enter paradise.
What other assurance do we actually need? It's very simple, straightforward. However, Muslims are not bragging about their selection. So we were told by the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon to always be humble, when it comes to bragging about this assurance because we are not. We don't know what may happen along the journey of life, we may slip, we may leave the faith. I have seen people in my journey leaving faith. Those who are very devoted Muslims or devoted Christians and be deviated from the party never know what could happen, what Satan had planned for those people. So we always keep that hope and faith up in God Almighty to allow us in our line of hunger, upon that era and along
with the assurance is there to dial up on that and along, the assurance is given
Hi, thanks for that. Well, before we head that back,
again, for any extra Congress, something that you said triggered something that I just want to ask you as well.
That kind of out of your answer.
Can you lose yourself?
Yeah, I mean, if you if you left faith, if you abandon your own religion to abandon the teachings of the whole and the teaching of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon any died upon that, definitely, to be no solution.
That's kind of bad, because we believe that once you believe in Jesus, that that is a one way, salvation. So once you've set
yourself
that's why I asked the question. So we don't know Christians would ever be perfect
and abandoned? On?
Yeah, that's a very interesting question. We we believe that once you know, once you're assigned to a website, there is also
one of the things is that I think of the example of Judas Iscariot
in the Scripture, so he was walking with Jesus, he was part of Jesus. But when you look at his pathway, we could see that there was a clear pattern that even though he was confessing the fight, he was not he has not committed to the fight, because they want to track we see that he has given his heart over to save them. But he was that didn't happen overnight. He was
what they did. Now, they tell you that there was a fee that he was, you know, he had his own mind. And throughout the text, we see that. So there are people out that would say that they've they've accepted the fight, but we don't think you know that they might have missed this, we would like Judas has really accepted that there might be a second word for whatever reason, I think down at the bottom of all of this, it is, you know, when you we believe that when you accept Jesus, the idea of follow
a body is always that challenge is that, you know, is it something that you have saved for the real reason? Or, you know,
I think the time that we've got, it's almost like it doesn't do justice, there's so many things that we could still talk about.
I am going to go on to the next question. But I'm really looking forward to I guess,
answering some of the rest of the questions, as well. So a nice question for you earlier.
I like the way this the phrase $1,000 $1,000 goes to the person who finds the verse in the Bible that cites Jesus is the Son of God, I have looked into this, and concluded that it does not exist.
So you're actually wanting me to quote a scripture Right? Like on the spot, man that puts a guy that's ever fully on the spot.
You know, when the fighting memory,
there is the biggest scene there is, I think there is, for me is the conviction. There's a couple of scriptures where if you read the burrs, it points out that Jesus calls himself, Son of God. And one of the things that I mentioned a letter is when it comes to Bibles where he said, Jesus said, you know, the father is revealed to me, and I revealed the Father, we are one.
There's another scripture in John, where he talks about, you know, like the father on one, we are connected if the son, John one, he said the Word, the Word became flesh, certain word in that word means logos. And that's a word that is used for Jesus. So, yeah, those are just a couple of plays. There's a few more but the most prominent one for me is John one, where he said the word was with God, and the Word became flesh. And that actually shows the powerful way that how Jesus was already present in Genesis one way says God created.
1616
That's why we have an audience here as well. Yes. Thank you, John. John 316, the only begotten son? Yes, we are. Children, but Jesus was the question. The question. The question was, where's in the Bible says that Jesus is the Son of God.
Yeah, I know that. I noticed. That's a question.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. We can have a discussion later with the concept of the Sonship of God versus profit. We can have those discussions to get into details, I think. But the 1000 is mine.
If
I could
ask one more question.
What you and I can do is we can call it the $1,000 Minute,
our first podcast.
So if we are born, the original goodness, how is it that we do fall short? When we do? How do we know if we can achieve forgiveness? So, as we said that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said that every child was born on that innate nature, complete purity. And it was, it's his parents are the people who would bring them out, who will direct them to the life that they will be placed on life. Some of them will be Muslim, some of them will be Christian, some of them will worship other things, and so on and so forth. Now, if we were born to question if we were born on original goodness, how could we later sin? Or how could you go later on life and do errors, because God
Almighty also told us in the Quran, in the NAFSA, that amount of time we sue, that God Almighty has created our soul, our self, with the inclination to commit the wrong, we are curious human beings.
When we see the fire, what do we do? If this is something out, out is on fire? What do we do, we run toward the fire, we want to have a look, we're gonna have a selfie probably with
our kids, you and animals will run away the other direction.
Because that's the nature is to protect themselves. We have that inclination to towards something that formerly harmful, we're curious. So God Almighty created us with that mechanism, that doesn't mean that we are inherently evil. It means you just have inflammation. One of the things that I said to one of my by my colleagues back there, we were talking about the same exact thing. I said, Look, if you look at human beings, in general, we do more good than evil.
We do more good than evil.
Why are we not rewarded collectively? So if Adam committed one sin, and we are all kind of sin, how much goodness he had performed? We will definitely work before collectively also inherited. So is the answer question of
the debate.
No, the point is, the point is that the nature of goodness does not mean that we may not commit mistakes, we make mistakes. Now, God Almighty God is also the system by which we can return back to him. And that's what I mentioned in my lecture, the four conditions of going back, if you admit that you have committed a mistake to God Almighty, if you create the sin immediately, once you realize it's wrong if you commit never to go back again. God Almighty promised forgiveness in the raising of the gods in the Quran that good deeds afterwards, after committing the sins, if you follow them with good deeds, they will wipe out the bad ones.
They are quick to admit commit amends. Yes. I mean this in relation to other people are good. You can listen. Yes.
Okay, we're out of time. Unfortunately, like I said, I think there's so much more to be said and so much more still to the process. I'm looking forward to what you're going to do next, even though it's not going to be part of this forum is going to be applied.
think we've been really blessed?
Can I just encourage you because we are good friends? Yeah, yeah, it's gonna give you a hug.
Walk into thorny square, and you see someone just
it's amazing. It's very simple. Most people will appreciate a high they will most likely either be surprised, but they will say hi.
With a smile, with a smile, where there's a lot of course, yeah, it's so Jesus said He said way to truth in a life in a way is so much important, right? I always say this, the way I compromise say something to my wife, if I told her are we eating this, or I'm getting this
same please do different responses. The way we do things often it's the most important but what we do three days is we build we connect and we learn and out of what we learn. We listen. We learn to love, and really appreciate. Thank you so much. Thanks for everybody coming out